*takes an extra turn after this one*

that's not how it works

In paper I don't give a fuck, online it gets on my nerves when it happens a lot in a row.

So you get one more turn with four whole mana.
Fat lot of good that does you on blue-green.
At that point, that's just ramp with extra steps

I haven't played much this season but last season turbofog decks were all over the place. If they rip your turn 2 play out of your hand with Thought Erasure, bounce your turn 3 play with Magical Time Negro and slam a Wilderness Reclamation with fog backup on turn 4 you can lose without being able to swing even once no matter how good your deck is.

build your deck so you alternate mana and cards.
then shuffle it.

>inb4 th-thats cheating

Mana weaving is cheating.

Anyone in here play EDH? It really is the best format for Magic

you can float all the mana with reclamation, if you drop it T4 you'll have 10 mana available on T5, plus you can ramp into it with growth spiral and start on T3 if you're lucky

It also runs root snare which completely ruins aggro strats, it's basically another copy of nexus of fate for 2 mana in that matchup

its not if you shuffle dumbass.

no one runs 4color lmao

growth spiral t2
wilderness reclamation t3
search for azcanta + nexus of fate t4
tamiyo t5 fish for root snare, opponent needs to kill you without combat damage next turn or you've won

it's literally cheating

B A S E D

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>Specifically place cards to improve your odds
This is cheating, it's stacking a deck.
>So shuffle it.
Did you shuffle properly? If so, you've randomized the deck completely and removed the mana weaving, which removes the competitive advantage.

So why did you mana weave?

>if you drop it T4 you'll have 10 mana available on T5
That's not how floating mana works, unless I'm misunderstanding how Reclamation works, or Arena does something fucky
You can't carry mana over between turns

Gitrog monster + underrealm lich are my favorite friends in my muldrotha deck.

its litterally not. Truely random decks would have perfectly spaced cards and would on average manaweave.

you never shuffle enough.
You only hate it because you don't do it and people tell you its wrong.

Lower mana curve or play green. Running deck thinning cards are good as well artifacts that give mana, being able to cycle your deck for cards you need is helpful. I'm not sure what your running so please let me know and I can help

>Truely random decks
are truly random, and not set in a set order by the player, which is the OPPOSITE of random.

nexus is an instant. end turn, wilderness trigger goes on stack, float all mana, untap all your lands, cast nexus.

At least Force of Will has a better mechanic.

if you mana weave and then shuffle its random. but its starting at a pattern that would be the general average of a randomized deck.

Mana weaving is closer to a perfect shuffling than anything you dumb nigger.

end step of t5 rolls around
wilderness reclamation trigger put on the stack
you tap all your lands, their Mana is now in your pool
you allow the wilderness reclamation trigger to resolve
you now have access to 10 mana, as long as you spend it on instant-speed stuff like Nexus of Fate and triggering Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin

on the end step the reclamation ability triggers, while that ability is on the stack you tap all your mana, let the ability resolve, then all your lands untap and you can tap them again in the same phase

Card filtering helps a lot, so does controlling possible card combination (i.e. not running 4 of everything), but sometimes your just screwed. It happens. Just move on when it does.

You're trolling, but for anyone else reading this:
A perfectly random deck will feel unfair a certain percentage of the time, because there is a random potential for you to get fewer lands or more lands than you want to get.
If you position cards in a deck with the intention of forcing your draws, that is cheating. No exceptions.
A sufficiently shuffled deck will randomize away any mana weave you make— the conventional minimum number of riffle shuffles needed to do this is 7.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persi_Diaconis for an introduction.

>shit made up by someone that builds decks that aren't affected by random chance

Ooh, okay, I got it. That makes more sense.
Still not sure what you could spend that mana on, but I haven't played magic in a long time so I don't know what the newer sets look like, outside of some specific cards. Could be stupid overpowered or utterly pointless depending on format.

>lessen the number of shuffles necessary by mana weaving
>no dude just shuffle your cards more and ruin them

no thanks

Spend the mana on the card in the OP to take an extra turn, have other cards that thin your deck to make it more likely to draw more of the card in the OP so you can do it again
The deck's win condition is to regrow a bounce spell and beatdown with a token after bouncing every permanent you control

you're shuffing more if you mana weave, you have to take the time to individually move each card one by one, then you have to shuffle sufficiently for it to be randomized anyways. Besides, are you actually too poor for sleeves?

There's a bunch of ways. Usually they'll keep casting Nexus of Fate, setting up ways to tear through their deck to quickly find the next copy (the new Tamiyo, activating Search for Azcanta multiple times a turn thanks to Reclamation, Drawn from Dreams), until their deck's thinned enough that they can guarantee a cast of Nexus each turn. Then they either play Teferi Hero of Dominaria to tick up and eventually exile your board, or play a finisher like Nissa or Biogenic Ooze to just beat you down. It's absolute cancer to play against because you could just be sitting there watching them play for ten minutes because there's still a chance they whiff, so it's incorrect to concede.

>Yeah bro take as many turns as you want

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I typically play blue decks with less than 20 lands in them. New mulligan helps avoid having too many or too few lands in your opening hand.

you don't need to shuffle more, you start at the average and shuffle off of it to diverge slightly from average.

In fact if anything this should be promoted to make the game more balanced and lower bullshit rng.

Force of Will also died in a few months.

He's clearly trolling and will continue pretending to be retarded as long as you engage with him.

So keep doing it if you enjoy that sort of thing, I guess.

honestly, with current meta Im more worried with the speed of elementals.
>board wipe
>they come back next turn with even more creatures attacking, drawing even more cards

Believe it or not, there are people who actually believe that mana weaving isn't cheating, and they know how TRUE randomization works i.e. their lands and playables are perfectly distanced so they never get flooded or screwed.

Everyone in this thread is a virgin

It makes the game feel dumb when you get flooded or screwed.

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What deck should I make next? Been playing monowhite lifegain and want to mix it up a bit.

It's a card game, if occasionally getting fucked because you dont draw the necessary cards breaks it for you, you should just play chess or something

New Chandra is a really horrible design, there's no counterplay to it at all. And I don't specifically mean counterspells, it's just nigh invincible for no reason. Planeswalkers are manageable because each colour can deal with them either through damage, direct destruction or countering them. However Chandra is nigh indestructible through the combat step (due to ticking up to an absurd 8 loyalty), and can't be countered (of course). You can't go wide against her because she has a built in boardwipe, and you can't go tall against her with anything smaller than an 8/8. Even in the absolute best case scenario where you Vraska's Contempt her immediately, you're still left with an uninteractable emblem stuck to you. It's just a massive 'we want our boring Core set to sell so we'll have a single terribly pushed card', like Nexus of Fate was for C19. All three Chandras were pushed to the moon this set. Uncommon is a format-warping limited card, Rare is a constructed powerhouse, and Mythic is the most obnoxious planeswalker ever printed.

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vampires

Keep saving up for two months doing dailies, then grab yourself a T1 deck when Thrones drops.

Seems to me like you can't build a proper deck.

chandra isn't even played in most decks, it's another case of a card being revealed, people freaking out how broken it is, then a month later you forget it even exists

Isn't that basically the same thing though?
Isn't Thrones coming out earlier than that?

I use prebuilt decks lol

a single emblem is not a problem at all, if you can't deal with a 20 turn clock you shouldn't be playing at all

lol shitter

Planes walkers are a terrible design in general.

This. War of the Spark almost made me quit Arena altogether

the alternative to a resource system is typically based on one where you are limited in number of actions you can take in a turn, which leads to "just play the best stuff" style of games, mana isn't a perfect system, however it is functional and and the alternative tends to either lead to boring gameplay like keyforge, or broken interactions like yu-gi-oh where the games explode and people play their entire decks almost instantly

I liked the WAR meta, Field of the Dead is fucking cancer and makes me want to quit

Maybe you should become a BO1chad so you wouldn't have to worry about this card.

>no counterplay at all
never have I ever lost to it. or even seen it being used by anything other than elementals as board wipe.
Its not even the real chandra problem, the one that creates tokens and gives loyality to others is the real troublemaker

October 4th, probably a week early on Arena as usual.

>costs 6 mana
>takes multiple turns to kill someone with the emblems

Nah, you just suck user. Put some wincons in your deck.

Ah okay, yeah might just wait then. Can probably farm enough with this deck.

You are fucking retarded. Nexus is an instant and you can float mana in your end step

ofc you would like War if you hate field, since its pretty much made to counter the overabundance of walkers.
magic might need some limited rules enforcing in standard. that's about it. They seem to never touch standard unless its for rare bans. but why not just limit cards in a deck like yugioh?
field isnt cancer if its set to 1, same for its best counter and also extremely cancer deck, the agent of secrets or whatever its called.
1 in deck? no big deal. whole deck revolving around copying it and sacrificing and summoning it over and over again? jesus christ

okay stupid question incoming. what happens if this is the last card in your library, your enemy is tapped out and you only have 7 mana but no way to kill him? You could play this card over and over without ending the game. Is there a stalemate rule for this?

You can agree to call the game a draw and you go to the next one. Otherwise, if you repeat the same action a certain number of times and don't advance the board state, you can be given a loss for slow play

forgot, but I believe you get the loss/disqualification for doing this shit.
there's no problem with pulling an infinite interaction as long as its going somewhere. if you are just pulling an infinite interaction to stall the game you should be penalized

are there any good mtg video games, something like tag force/wc series for yugioh

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You respeat the loop then you are oblidge to pass the turn.

If you liked the War meta and played Jeskai walkers you're gonna get rolled by Scapeshift. You can adapt a bit though by playing Ashiok

Arena and Shandalar

It's the mana system or hyper competitive yugioh cancer.

The only true solution to the whole manaweaving thing is to have all decks machine shuffled. Human shuffling is inherently flawed and can be gamed, the only reason we allow it at all is because of the difficulty involved in forcing a truly random outcome.

If a player takes the nine permanents on the board after a match and places them in such a pattern as one land-two others such that all nine permanents are lined up in such a way, then shuffles his deck several times, is it cheating? If the answer is yes, than shuffling is not a sufficient randomizer. The only solution would be for players to put their entire decks in alphabetical order and then both shuffle the exact same way -- and even then, this does not help matters because human shuffling is inherently flawed and you would still be left with giant clumps of land-nonland cards in a row.

In a tournament setting, accommodations can be provided to ensure that each players' decks are sufficiently random. In kitchen table magic, you can simply not play your opponent if you think they are cheating. I would say this highlights a weakness of card based randomization, that games can play out incredibly different based on if you draw what you need or draw 15 lands in a row. A game like MTG could probably be improved with reduced randomization by having players draw 3-5 cards per turn to provide a more even slice of gameplay, though many other rules would have to change to facilitate that.

>gathering of boomers in 2019

jesus christ

The REAL solution is to do away with the land/mana system entirely and find new ways to manage board escalation, but Magic has been around the longest and has the die-hardest fanbase who will undoubtedly burn everything to the ground due to the smallest rules change, let alone something as massive as land management, so here we are.

Force of Will handles it interestingly by having your resources a seperate deck, which you can draw from instead of your normal deck draw.

But I don't think you could change mtg that easily. 3-5 card draws would be completely broken, especially for aggro decks. Something like "look at the top 3, draw one of them and put the other under your library" would be more balanced, but I suspect even that would give you problems. Especially with shit like brainstorm in the game.

Two decks. One basic/nonbasic land, one non-land.
Draw five cards.
Start turn, draw and play one land. Play game like normal.
There, fixed.

>all decks machine shuffled,
Wizards is so cheap they're now demanding that the judges pay them for the privilege, and you expect them to shell out for card shufflers?

>play against jank with the nuttiest jank hand
>don't even feel bad about losing on turn 4 to 3 forests and 12 3/3 elves

then it would devolve to aggro deck only, or better yet mono red burn only format. cause you know mono red doesnt even need the 5th land,

Experimental frenzy would be obscene in that format.

>Mythic is the most obnoxious planeswalker ever printed
Whoa there, you seem to be forgetting big nig and mini nig.

youtube.com/watch?v=gnYhG_ekoH8

Oh ye of short memories.

t.thekitchen table

FoW's land system is a good system but it's FAR too late to make that change to Magic. You don't make a rules change of that scope and scale during the 26th year of a game being around, you do it in the first year or not at all.

I'm not so sure
Most dech tech assumes you're playing a land every turn anyway. I can't really see *too* much changing when you make that assumption an absolute.

Yep, for example it would kill green's land ramp completely. Not to mention fetch lands. The other thing with looking at 3 cards and choosing one could be worth a try for kitchen table magic, but I doubt it'd evolve much from there. But I think it could make some casual decks a lot more viable and fun to play.

they have tested it and aggro decks absolutely wrecked everything, and whoever played first won everytime. If you don't have to worry about mana-to-threat balance and your threats are always on curve, there's no reason to play anything but beatdown.

>Most dech tech assumes you're playing a land every turn anyway.
No, they just don’t mention that you are fucked if you miss your land drop because that’s a given.

Play the deck with 35 lands and tutor them with Primeval Titan

Well, if game balance is predicated on whether or not a player does or does not make an action as opposed to what that action is, that just sounds like an inherent flaw with the game, then.
But yeah, guess it's too late to change now

>if the game balance is designed around how things currently are and it becomes unbalanced when I radically change it, the game is broken.
Lands are shit, but you’re daft.

> Last time playing standard was khans
> Play budget turbo turn part the waterveil deck
> Beat Jeskai black deck costing 400 dollars

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In addition to , it should be noted that doing this prevents you from milling out. In fact, the first Teferi deck didn't even bother adding a win condition. Once they got Teferi's ultimate and eventually exiled your board, they'd just use Teferi's -3 to tuck himself over and over, until you eventually milled yourself out while they sat there just drawing and replaying that same Teferi turn after turn..

>If a player takes the nine permanents on the board after a match and places them in such a pattern as one land-two others such that all nine permanents are lined up in such a way, then shuffles his deck several times, is it cheating?

The answer is no, of course. The point of shuffling is to make the order of cards in your deck 'effectively' random. Even though the specific actions you take to shuffle a deck would lead to the same result every time if you were to flawlessly reproduce it, nobody's capable of reproducing a perfect riffle shuffle seven or eight times over, so nobody's going to be able to stack their deck beforehand and still know what's coming afterwards (actual cheats excluded, of course). However, if they're shuffling correctly, this means there's no reason to mana weave since you'll have no way of knowing what's coming next whether you weave or not. In fact, if my opponent began mana weaving, I'd immediately be on my guard and make sure to shuffle their deck thoroughly at every opportunity after their shuffle - if there's 'no reason' to do it and they're going out of their way to do it anyway, then it's a bad look for them.

tl;dr mana weaving is in the best case, a pointless superstition, and in the worst case, an indicator of stacking your deck for a desired order of cards, i.e. cheating.

>Implying it's okay that the game is balanced around bullshit the player doesn't control

The Final Fantasy TCG has the best land/mana/energy/whatever system out there. It's the only one that solves the mana screw/flood issue without reducing the complexity of the card design or the strategy in deckbuilding, and it does it in a way that actually increases the amount of tactical decisions you have to make during a match. Too bad nobody actually plays the game

Duels of the Planeswalkers series wasn't bad. Just a little limited in deck construction option but makes up for it in the gametypes.

based retard

Mana weaving

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these cards don't interact at all really

Then it was a fucking waste of time.

Across the thousands and thousands of games of magic being played by a person, outside of the number played by every player, people are just gonna experience Screw/Flood. It is just the way the numbers work. People bitching about it just remember the times when they got dicked by luck, not all the times they drew gas out the ass.

Assume you had the notion thief and they had the frog?

In that case every time they lose a land you get the draw

>sacs the gitrog monster instead