Bro just learn the mu lol

He’s made the game more fun to play than it ever was before. I have a great time playing as him and against him. Every match is something completely different.

Side B is completely avoidable if you approach from the air. Not even kidding it’s one of the easiest attacks to punish if you jump and simply do a fair or the like

>psych up bounce and acceleratle stack

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So you just gave him consistent constant access to shit like Bounce, psych up and oompha at all times. Hero is balanced because his shit is random.

Just let him be

Great idea. I would much prefer if any killing Smash attack played the critical hit effect and nothing else.

On that note, I really wish that landing a fully charged Ness bat played the “SMAAAASH” sound and effects

Totally agree. Ending stocks with kamikaze is a million times more fun than gannoncide.

This. He’s the only sword character I’ve every truly enjoyed playing because of the dumb stuff that always happens (I also like Roy but he feels more like a melee-type with how close you want to be to people)

>want to end a with a kamikaze
>bring up the menu 20 times in a row and it never shows up and just kaboom him instead
Also why the FUCK does this game make me lose 2 stocks on some Kamikaze kills? Thats fucking horseshit

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maybe increase mana cost, anyway if they want to access the buff page in the right moment they have to keep track of it and rotating pages takes a shitload of time making you easily punishable

Anyone else feel like there’s never a situation in which you’d want to bring up the menu to recover with Zoom instead of just using up B?

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A setting you can turn on called SD penalty that takes more stocks from you if you kill yourself.

I've had CPU's do it and it's pretty bullshit to actually see happen

>get hit offstage
>Bring up the menu
>Check for zoom
>If it's not there then jump cancel or airdodge and recover low with swoosh
>Else use zoom

Zoom is cheaper and completely avoids an edgegaurd. If you have a jump to spare or cant make it with up b, then it cant hurt to give the menu a try

MAD

>Blind defending

sounds like you didn't actually do it
Literally use fucking ridley and side B destroys most of his options
And you know Spot dodging and shielding are a thing right?

GOING TO PLEBBIT, JUST LIKE YOU

Is there any way to choose where the zoom goes? I feel like its super easy to punish if you dont jump cancel it at the start

>Be Hero
>Knocked off stage
>Okay let me open up my menu for Zo-

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Nope. It takes you to a random position above solid ground.

Honestly the Samus mu does not seem bad so far, sometimes Hero will roll a bounce which is disconcerting but not difficult to play against
Ridley mu is also surprisingly not terrible either, projectiles are always an issue for him but he's fast enough to shut Hero's shit down
And Hero himself is pretty fun to play as

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He fucking sucks ass against rushdown though.

>This is the average intelligence of a non competitive player

If you die without your opponent touching you once you lose 2 stocks.

When you are off stage way too far out or you are fighting against an opponent with good edge guarding.
If it had a high chance of appearing, it would be the best recovery in the game.

Not true, it chooses randomly, but you can influence where on the stage with the control stick. Holding left usually puts you around the left platform on BF for example.

who doesn't?

>new character released that isn't blatantly shit-tier
>"HE'S TOO OP"
Every goddamn time. Learn how to counter the new hotness, you fucking casuals

He literally is not a good character and I am willing to make the prediction that he will be placed at most in Mid Tier once the new character honeymoon period wears off. I encourage a screenshot of this post when I am right.

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How to improve Hero
>Make it so the top menu option is always a slash, 2nd option is a projectile, 3rd is a buff/heal, and 4th is everything else. This way it becomes easier to get the exact types of spells you want and you can further dab on the herohaters.

>getting upset over a party game

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making crits do like 5% more damage would get the same idea across. killing people at 30 is just stupid.

Just get rid of critical hits and he's fine. Even with the way he is now he isn't too overpowered it's just that you get that feel of jank when you get up smash crit'd at like 45% and die.

>Play villager
>Hero uses bounce
>But I have pocket

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dilate

I've been generally wrecking Heroes online as Little Mac.

Any swordsman should know that you can counter everything. Even Snooze

>Hero use bounce
>Cripple my Isabelle
>Almost all her setups and attacks are projectile based
This shit should not be allowed, Nerf bounce

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Fuck power-up gimmick characters. Melee didn't rely on bullshit like Limit Break, Witch time, KO meter, Aura, Monado arts and all of Hero's autism ruining the meta.

When I have my kill in the bag, I don't need a mini final smash to ruin it. It's completely unfair to Mario mains.

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good, isabelle should have never been added
literally just a little flailing blob with zero visual coherence, gameplay vs isabelle is just trying to connect to a tiny hitbox to kill it while hoping you don't get hit by random unreadable bullshit

fuck meme characters

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>Knock Hero to bottom blastzone
>Laugh as I ballon my way back
>Nigger casted Zoom
That lucky son of a bitch

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Does the hero have a touch of death? If not then it's nowhere near as bad as bayo was

COPE WITH MY THICC MEATY ROD

It's a children's fighting game that has never been balanced and continues to have huge amateur game design pitfalls. Why does this shit character piss you off more especially than any of that?

Doesn't/didn't it do that against starmen trophies?

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Just bait him out and get dicey in melee range with him. His reflex is not as bad as Fox's.

Fire emblem characters should be able to crit.

Smash fags have convinced themselves they are playing a fighting game and have all the necessary skills that you would learn from them

Take a bath Smelee...your game is long since solved and holds no real value in 2019.

Pokémon characters should be able to crit.

Just killing a Star man in general does it I believe

the game needed more anti-zoning characters anyway.

rosa does basically the same thing. why can she just yank ness and lucas's recovery

Earthbound characters should be able to SMAAAASH!!

>Bro just learn the mu lol
Get gud scrub
>Dude it's not even that hard just rush him down lol
Fact! Hero's attacks are sluggish. This is his kryptonite and can be used against him with a rushdown character like Fox, ZSS, or Joker
>Lol ok so should Luigi and GnW be banned for RNG too
The odds of Hero scoring a critical hit on you are 1/10 and even then unless you on the edge of the stage or have a high damage percentage when the crit happens, you have fuck all to worry about.
>I swear this is fucking smash 4 bayo release all over again with this blind defending
Nigga, this ain't Sm4sh Bayo or Brawl Metaknight where its plain obvious that one character is so very above everyone else. In fact your bitch ass should be grateful we live in an era of comprehensive patch notes and Nintendo being more involved in the competitive meta than ever before. Now shut the fuck up and git gud you salty nigger.

As Samus it’s a mild inconvenience
As Isabelle it makes me want to break shit

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People keep bitching but this guy has like NO range. Any normal playstyle where you try to back air or forward tilt fucking miss. His moves are short range as fuck.

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This.

>keep critical hits only as an aestethic effect when you hit people at high percent, no gameplay alterations
That's stupid as shit, also I'm pretty sure you stole this from a reddit post.

>down b now works in rotation, like pacman fruits, with a specific sets of spells each time you open it.
Congrats, you made his down b completely useless for situational play.

Honestly Fox's reflect seems harder to deal with than Hero's bounce. Mostly since Fox can whipe his out any time in one frame well Hero has to get lucky and it's usually very predictable. Also helps Hero is slow enough to whoop up close well Fox is a fast fuck.

Dude everyone can see that he's mid-tier at best, his garbage frame data alone instantly holds him back. He's a more extreme version of Sm4sh Shulk.

>It's completely unfair to Mario mains
Fucking what, you can combo the hell out of every single of one them. He's easily stronger than most of the gimmick characters.

Thwack has potential to kill at 0%

Hero isn't broken but his down B is stupid

It's not OP but it is clunky. I don't see it being seriously used for competitive play

It's funny to me how desperate you are to make people shit o this character

it's probably only see use if one person knocks the other far off stage and has a little time to check what's in there
and also whenever you respawn, taking advantage of the invincibility to check for a buff

Wait i thought it had a high chance only at high percentage

Repeat after me:
SMASH ISN'T A FIGHTING GAME
SMASH IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY
there, now hero isn't "broken" because the concept of something being "broken" in a fun little party game literally makes no sense.
You're welcome :))

correct
it can POTENTIALLY kill at zero, but such a thing happening would take greater luck than three Game and Watch 9s in a row

So now he's boring as shit.

Sakurai: here eat the shit that just came out of my anus
Yea Forums: HAHAHA HOLY SHIT AMAZING THIS TASTES AMAZING
non npc reasonable person: ummm no it isn't it's literally shit
Yea Forums: FUCKING TOURNEYFAG I BET YOU WANT PIZZA INSTERAD FUCKING PIZZAFAG HAHA

How does this make you feel?

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imagine being so fat you look at video games and see food

Delete
This cabbage fucker spiked me more times then i can count

Imagine seeing shit and thinking it's food just to spite boogeymen

>compares thing he doesn't like to shit
>compares something "better" to pizza

>"Wahh wahh muh party game that I treat seriuosly is being ruined because a fun character was added that I believe ruins the integrity of muh gamee!!"
We're not NPCs for accepting reality, moron. smash is not and never will be a serious game.

>character can win completely by luck
>Yea Forums defends it

lmao

>game is a fun party game to play with friends before you go out on saturday
>virgins treat it seriously and act like a random zany fun character ruins the integrity of a game you're not supposed to take seriously

lmao

Exactly. If the competitivefags have a problem with him, ban him for tournaments where money is on the line. Otherwise, if you get whacked, just laugh it off because the game is just for fun.

>Super fun character to play as and against is added
>Yea Forums defends it.

>smash is not and never will be a serious game.

It is if you want it to be.

>NO YOIU'RE SUPPOSED TO PLAY WITH MUH ITEMS AND HAZARDS

>every single smash game has the option to turn off items
>ultimate has the option to turn off hazards
>nintendo even has sponsored tournaments

No matter how much you scream "MUH PARTY GAME" in literally every smash thread it won't be true. It will always have tournaments no matter how much you shitpost on Yea Forums

>

Shitty idea general

>N-n-n-n-no I'm not bad
>okay so why don't you play a character that doesn't rely on RNG
>NOOO MUH FUN

no need to even ban him from tournaments he's not that great
>Tic tac toe is a serious game if you want it to be
lmao the absolute state of smashfags

literally just shield it for the easiest punish ever. I can't count how many times I've shielded a fully charged side b only to punish it with a KO punch.

>Cares about being "good" in a party game
If you guys get real friends and start going out to bars on the weekend, you'll see how pathetic this is

Would you like to know why Bayo was never banned ever in smash 4? Because she was beatable.
So is Hero. In fact he isn't even close to as broken as Bayo was.

I think one fix he should have is crits having a drastically lower chance with each buff you apply to yourself. This includes that speed up spell as well.

>>Tic tac toe is a serious game if you want it to be
>lmao the absolute state of smashfags

Unlike tic tac toe smash has people consistently winning. Why don't you win a major and prove me wrong? You get to prove that smash isn't viably competitive and win a few thousand dollars.

which is why a pikachu won a major this year

No one cares about being good at Mario party, user.
We are talking about a fighting game called Supet Smash Bros. Ultimate

Do you think I care about winning or losing? All my friends are worse at the game than I am so I tend to lose on purpose half the time anyways so they can still have fun. The game is about having fun and Hero makes every match interesting.

>If you guys get real friends and start going out to bars on the weekend, you'll see how pathetic this is

I'm sure your "friends" are impressed you raid every smash thread in existence saying "final destionation fox only" for the past 10 years.

Falcon Punch speed attack with less shield damage. You are awful.

HOES MAD

>Do you think I care about winning or losing?

Yes.

> All my friends are worse at the game than I am so I tend to lose on purpose half the time anyways so they can still have fun

>Lose
>"haha i-i-i wasn't even trying anyway!

But seriously why does no ever talk about how he has some of the worst normals I've ever seen in this game like what the fuck

I don't really think he needs to be banned either, but if it shuts the irate gardening tools up then I'd be for it.

Imagine being this upset over a character that can easily be countered. I bet you complained about the Belmonts being broken. Get a clue. If Hero is sooo broken why doesn't he have any results?

See you at EVO faggOH WAIT

The idea of spending time "learning" to exploit glitches to "get good" at a party game disgusts me
i dont care about being good at mario party, like smash it's just a fun game to play with your friends, not something to take seriously.
>y-you don't have any friends because you tell people the truth about a party game :''''(

Or, don't fix him since he's fine as is. Give him a week and he'll be like K Rool and Little Mac; super over powered until people learn the matchup and then easy to beat.

>enjoy playing Olimar
>Hero comes out
>stop playing Olimar
shits fucked

But the rng and the 0% kills. Clearly he has no weaknesses.

Level 2 is legit better than level 3, which is YOLO garbage or at worst a committed ledgetrap akin to DDD smash shit. Yes, he kills ridiculously early with a lot of attacks.

Hero is basically just a superheavy with a ton of projectiles. Underwhelming disadvantage state and made to stomp online. I think someone could get really good with him in bracket, but I don't forsee a lot of them existing. There's just too much work involved because he can't just hit buttons-- he's one of the few characters in the game that can actually be whiffpunished consistently.

>The idea of spending time "learning" to exploit glitches to "get good" at a party game disgusts me

>dude it takes no skill at all
>But I'd have to learn and get good at it.

What's stopping you from free money, user? Surely if Smash takes no skill at all you can win thousands of dollars?

He's really not that bad, you people have gotten so used to just blindly running up on characters that you get hit with the most telegraphed shit ever

Just fucking beat his ass and he won't be able to do shit, he's slow as fuck and if he's spamming spells you can just gimp him like nobody's business

You have no idea how bad my friends are at the game. The one time I thought to put auto handicap on, pretty much every match started me at about 140%. Not everybody pitches a tantrum when they lose you know. It's a game meant to have fun with. You don't lose anything by not winning.

Oomph too.

>It is if you want it to be.
no it isn't. you already have to ban 90% of the game's content to live out your fantasy of smash as a hardcore competitive game, but all it takes is one character being added to ruin all of that.
time to face facts: smash is just like mario kart, and the hero is the blue shell. that's why you're seething - you HATE being reminded that smash is a casual party game.

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He isn't broken, just shittily designed and you're defending it just to spite people. You might as well defend the lag and shitty online since people hate that, too.

>N-n-n-n-no I'm not bad
>okay so why don't you play a fighting game instead of smash
>NOOO MUH FUN

this is the most retarded shit I've ever seen like lmao

The problem I have with the crits is that they feel like they're just an inherently unfun mechanic.

There is literally nothing to do them other than "sometimes you die at 30% lol". No counterplay, no hype build up, no momentum swinging that wouldn't already be at least partially delivered by landing that Smash anyway, it's just a sudden "Oh he procced his random chance to hit me way harder."

I also think his non-command specials are a little too devastating.

Doesn't Smash have more players than any other single fighting game?

>Would you like to know why Bayo was never banned ever in smash 4?
Because she got nerfed a whole lot
>Because she was beatable. So is Hero. In fact he isn't even close to as broken as Bayo was.
No one claims the Hero is unbeatable. They are claiming that shit like Thwack, Whack, Critical hits, Stats, Super Mushrooms, Smart Bombs, Predictless Revenge, Speed Monado, Deep Breathing, a projectile version of sing that puts you to sleep in the air, and a Franklin Badge all shouldn’t be on 1 character.
The character is basically Items on, but the items are exclusive to them, which is way worse than Bayo pre-patch.

this

>. you already have to ban 90% of the game's content to live out your fantasy of smash as a hardcore competitive game,

So? Why not analyze what's left as the game? That's like arguing Chess isn't a good game because they took out the dice rolls.

>m-muh Hocus Pocus
hahaha holy fuck you are retarded get a fucking clue

I don’t understand he’s going to be bad once they know the matchup.
He has aerial of Ike’s, Snake’s infamous side tilt, a jab that covers air a little. I can safely say he’s at least high tier, but seemingly will stay at high tier due to his slowness and his every moves which are fucking punishable to hell.

Eleven is cute

Melee had G&W and Peach Bob-Ombs/Mr Saturn, but I guess that was okay

based and truthpilled

Elite Isabelle main here. Hero's fine. She needed someone to check her and Olimar anyway. Bounce now forces me to work more on my melee capabilities and stop relying on rod for combos.

chess never had dice rolls you idiot. Chess was designed from the beginning to be a serious tactical/strategical game for princes and lords to hone battle-sense before they were old and trained enough to do other forms of military training.
Smash was designed to be a fun party game you play with your friends before going out on a weekend night.

>Why not analyze what's left as the game?
there's barely a game left to analyze after the competitivefags get done with it. are we supposed to be impressed by a fox vs. jigglypuff simulator where you can only play on final destination?

This subhuman character deserve every nerf he got.
>HEHEHE HOHOHOHO ME UP B SPAM ME KILL YOU AT 60%
>HEHEHEHEH HGOGOGOGO ME CAN SPIKE CAN WITHOUT GOING OFF STAGE HOHOHO HEHEHE ME GOOD

>game has options to play the way you want
>people use those options to play the way they want
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

>which is way worse than Bayo prepatch
Bayo had hitboxes that a pretty good chunk of the cast literally could not contest. As in they could know 100% what was going to happen and had zero ways to outplay her. If they were caught, it could have lead to a zero to death. If you did pressure her, you then had to be wary of a counter that could also lead to a 0-death for you.

Hero has none of that. He's a character who can't directly invalidate other character because his framedata and hitboxes aren't good enough by default. He's a character that may give an inconsistent win due to a crit or down B effect, meaning that you would have to play the Hero player a greater number of games for an accurate assessment of who is better. Of course you are so far into hyperbole you probably still disagree.

t. Ganondork/Bowser/K.Rool/DK main

>Bro just learn the mu lol
You're greentexting this phrase like it's an unreasonable stance towards a character that's only two days old.

He has good single moves, but is weak to rushdown because everything has slow start up.

Smash's meta is and always has been fast rushdown. Every relevant character in the history of the game has been good because of their speed and ability to keep on pressure and combo. Fox, Pikachu, Meta, Bayo, etc.

His properties sound good on paper, but in practice he's weak to the one thing that makes a Smash character strong.

>The character is basically Items on, but the items are exclusive to them, which is way worse than Bayo pre-patch.
Bayonetta was able to execute guaranteed death combos from almost any state. Hero isn't able to do anything close to this. In fact, the strong moves that might kill are worse than moves other characters have that do the same thing. Is Ganondorf overpowered because Warlock Punch can kill at 25%? Or because his normal smash attacks hit as hard as Hero's crits? Is Samus overpowered for her Charge Beam? Link with bomb jumps can recover from anywhere to the middle of the stage, does that make him overpowered like Zoom? Hero does nothing other characters can't already do, and unlike other characters he can't even do them consistently. Consistency is key in fighting games; it's why people are using Lucina over Marth. Hero isn't that good.

>Would you like to know why Bayo was never banned ever in smash 4?
for the same reason why fox and jigglypuff haven't been banned from melee. the e-celebs didn't want to lose their insta-win characters.

Actually I looked it up and you were right about chess. However the point is that you're looking too hard at intent rather than what's there. Many games were intended to be good competitively but aren't, just like games that weren't originally intended to be competitive can be.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much you shitpost against it, the better player will win most of the time in Smash. If it wasn't true all of you would go to big tournaments and get free money, but you haven't because you know you'd go 0-2.

Stop being bad

Nothing makes me hotter than knowing you fucks were hating on Dragon Quest and now you will be killed by Dragon Quest.

>where you can only play on final destination?

Show me a tournament set where FD is the only stage picked. If you do I'll admit you're right.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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>it's an armchair competitive party game player believes he knows more about good balance in video games than the professional video game developers of a multi-billion dollar video game company that's over a century old episode
i'm pretty sure i've seen this episode before

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>consistency is key in fighting games
True enough, but if the odds ends up more in the player's favor than not it's just a buff. 1/8 for smash attacks is iffy. At the very least Hero is going to rape doubles.

HOES MAD... at a party game
xD ROFL

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imagine the smell....

he's not even that good
the only reliable part of his down b is accelerate, bounce, oomph, and psych up
everything else takes so much time to get out that if you get hit by it it was your own fault

shitty dash attacks from Snake got him killed more than anything. Also not throwing grenades at Hero while he's in the menu is a huge mistake

how to fix hero:
(reddit spacing)
man up and deal with it, or git gud at a fighting game instead.

>Oomph and Psyche Up both on
>Stood there for half a second shielding when even a fucking roll would've saved you and given a free punish
>Critical hit on charged smash in addition to Oomph while at the edge kills
You retards will keep posting this webm like it means anything though

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you don't understand, randomly killing tards and win unwinnable matches by chance is EXTREMELY fun.
guess why people get addicted to gambling nerd

>smelee player saying anything about seething fanbases

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If I can rush the fucker down as fucking Dr. Mario, you shitters have no excuse to be mad at him.
>waaah Hero hit me with his telegraphed as fuck spell that he had to spend 2 seconds searching in his menu waaaah

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remember when everyone saw Meta Knight's ladder combo killing at 0 and thought he was broken? That's basically what's happening now. People are showing off all of the good and none of the bad

mfw hero vs hero matchups

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>Remove hocus pocus

how to instantly be gay

>hero goes to menu
>spam chakram
>charges me
>step back gale strike
>tbags me
>suicides

You guys are just bad.

I don't like his Crits either, but honestly everything else about him his fine.

Crits wouldn't even be that bad if they were like, a 5-10% damage increase with a bit of extra knockback, something mostly for flavor. Right now it feels like it just doubles the damage and knockback of the Smash which is absurd.

MAD

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Hero dittos are unironically the most fun I've had with this game since launch, I love it

ITS NOT "ABSURD" ITS FUN!!!

I hate mirrors because I know exactly what kinda dishonest bullshit I'm about to be hit with because I wanted to do it first

That being said, Hero/Hero is fucking hilarious, watched a guy Kamikazee himself twice in a row then Thwack me on reaction last night

>playing Mii fighters
Please commit suicide.

I just know they desperately tried to search for a set online but couldn't find one lmao. Beyond "b-b-b-but sakurai said" and "fd only" the casual elitists don't have any arguments.

Why are so many people sleeping on Kamikaze? Many characters have already had suicide kills as part of their meta, and those only target one player. Now we Kamikaze which:
>kills around 40%
>kills even if it barely grazes them
>can potentially kill multiple people at once, causing a major swing in your favor

I have been using it really well when I'm at high %, taking multiple people out at low % is huge in stock FFA. Meanwhile whenever I see another hero use it, it's always on accident and they don't get anybody else in it. Also they are usually on my team and now I'm screwed.

literally get good

>playing with 'multiple people'
openion descarted

>jUsT pLaY bEtTeR nEuTrAl BrO

Fuck off you fucking faggot.

>casual elitists
you mean the competitivefags? they're the ones who act elitist over a casual party game.

>>jUsT pLaY bEtTeR nEuTrAl BrO
unironically this

hero is mid tier and shows how dogshit the average ultimate player is
he is garbage against intelligent rushdown. you have to fall into predictable options or you are fucked.
the only playstyle he destroys is braindead spam. his shield, bounce, neutral b, and side b are some beautiful anti unga bunga tools
giving competitive smash such a low skill floor was a mistake
t. someone who called joker top tier the day he came out for the exact reasons he is top tier right now. also called out palutena during launch week when everyone was calling her upper mid tier and called out k rool being dogshit on launch day

Still can't find that FD only set user? I thought it was the only stage tournaments used?

It couldn't be that....you had no idea what you were talking about?

>shitter can't handle the truth
kek

I do and Hero isn’t hard to beat. He has a bunch of tools he doesn’t usually have access to that are scary in isolation and in theory.

>Bayonetta was able to execute guaranteed death combos from almost any state.
The Hero can literally do exactly that, but in 1 hit, with multiple moves that can do so. Even Bayonetta needed some skill to pull of those combos.
And again, it’s not just OHKO moves.
It’s also invincibility.
It’s also healing off damage.
It’s also using other character’s stat buffs
It’s also making huge stage sized hitboxes.
It’s also being able to freely bounce back projectiles without prediction or being stuck in an animation.

And this all would honestly be fine IF there was no menu and you had to commit to what spell you got (and the better spells were slightly worse and there were more hindering/useless spells).

>herocuck kamikazees me
>retard just stood there waiting for me to jump in
>instantly air dodge when it happens
>teebag as he dies in shame
heheheh
I hope Nintendo never bans this the tbag. It feels too good.

or maybe, just maybe, you're too autistic to recognize hyperbole.

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>The Hero can literally do exactly that, but in 1 hit, with multiple moves that can do so. Even Bayonetta needed some skill to pull of those combos.
but it's fucking random and avoidable you fucking shitter

Professional video game developers of a multi-billion dollar video game company that's over a century old have also created the bayo mess. They're designing for casual fun, not competitive balance

>invincibility
>implying Hocus Pocus is more likely to do something useful than to put you to sleep

Cope. Eat some kfc and purple drank.

However being slow isn’t a huge disadvantage in Ultimate.
Link is high-high tier, despite of him being notoriously slow and his every moves comes out pretty slow.
Hero has good coverage with his sword while using aerials, similar to Ike.
The main problem Ike has is the lack of methods of recover, not being a slow character, and he also bad at dealing with projectiles, which hero already have many of them

>People crying that Hero is OP already
Shut up, faggot.

Link and Ike have good normals unlike Hero though.

It’s not like that Hero is playing great either.
And are you fags really going to defend being punished that hard for a few mistakes?
Do you think someone who loiters around after jaywalking should be executed? (I know you are just going to reply with meme answers even though literally 0 people actually genuinely believe this shit)

can you shut the fuck up about Hocus Pocus, you are giving yourself away as a retard by crying about a move that
1. is Pure RNG to ever show up
2. is the rarest of all spells to show up by far
3. has far more negative outcomes then positives

HP cost 20 MP and can make you cast any other command menu spell that costs less then it (including Kamikaze), force you to just a random normal, deal 33% damage to yourself, inflict Witchtime on yourself, shrink yourself, lose all MP and put yourself to sleep.

Nobody will ever use this move outside of a desperate hail mary, and if they did then they are probably retarded because there would have to be better spells to select from then.

Get fucked lmao. Your most wanted will become a Mii costume and we'll enjoy it.

>Mfw realizing every bullshit spammer character playing lame can’t stand up to Hero

Pikachu and Pichu can’t spam thunderjolt because of Hero’s shield
Link can’t spam arrows because shield
Belmonts can’t use specials because Sheild. Bounce intensifies this to a ridiculous degree, the lightning rats can’t even Thunder you when you’re above them

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>trying to play casual party fun games 'competitively'
next up: competitive lottery tournaments

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Link and Ike have far better normals then Hero dude, Ike in particular has like 50% more range on anything.

CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT RANDOM SHIT IN SMASH BROS IS FUNDAMENTALLY RETARDED?!

>And are you fags really going to defend being punished that hard for a few mistakes?
>What is literally every heavyweight character in the game

you realize every Link can do the exact same thing right

my only wish for this game was for more characters to be capable of some busted shit. i felt like the whole game was too tame to be fun for more than a few weeks at a time.
So yes, i agree with being killed off of a small amount of mistakes. I only wish more characters were capable of it

>Acting like you can easily keep bounce up indefinitely
>Actually citing hocus pocus as being worth using

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The difference is you'd actually have a chance of winning the lottery LMAO.

lol why Kamikaze when you can Magic Burst instead?

I really like playing hero, i'm definitely going to main him. His Erdrick skin even kinda resembles Jak who is my never-ever.

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HOES MAD

Oh man finally something i like allows me to be a part of the mindless shitposting, it feels great, now i understand why other people do it

so why aren't you crying about Peach pulling Bom-obs and Stitch Faces then

Because MB can be interupted. You have to be catching them in the active hitbox, which takes a bit to come out. You want to MB when they are in disadvantage or recovery. Kamikaze can't be stopped once started and it can't be shield. So if you know they are rushing you, Kamikaze will kill them, while MB might be interupted.

Bro just have fun lol. Don't tell me you're some sort of compfag and takes this seriously.

can Burst be shielded? Because Kamikaze can't

Hoes mad.

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No, because it's fundamentally not meant to be a competitive fighting game. I hope Sakurai adds more random RNG bullshit you can't turn off to the game so you faggots can cry more, I'm having a great time.

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I'm not screaming OP or that he should be "banned" or any other retarded shit people are calling for I just want to know why the decision was made to give him multiple magic abilities that can kill sun 50%.

Like I get he's gimmicky and therefore has quirky gimmicky shit. You want ONE move like that, like Little Macs KO punch, that's fine, But Hero has multiple "annnd you're fucked if this hits you" moves and it's kind of unfair in a sense. Or if it's not unfair, it's a pain in the ass to deal with. Great addition to the roster, pretty unique, but he has too many "fuck you" moves.

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Because those are a whole 2 things that are extremely rare. Hero can get a plethora of random things with the press of a button or swing of his sword.

Because you're only going to use it if you have advantage or are already at a high percent?

It's Kamikazee.

Pretty much, yeah. Crits as a concept I think are fine as flavour but are a little too devastating in practice here. If the crits got a raw nerf and hell, if his base damage on his smash attacks got a buff to trade there, that's fine.

As it is now it just feels like a crit at 30% being death is silly. There's no meaningful play there. You could say the same about Game and Watchs 9, but I'd argue that the functional difference is that Judge is something relatively superfluous to his kit as a whole, and that using it can result in outright negative consequences. Hero's Smash Attacks are something fundamental to his kit and and there's no downsides to counteract that random chance to just do crazy strong damage and knockback.

The rest of his kit I'm fine with. His shit is devastating but also clunky as all hell and punishable because of it. It's exclusively the criticals that feel unhype to me.

Yup, it can be shield, reflected, interupted. It's honestly not that scary, it's killing potential is limited to someone recovering or as a tech chase you just happened to get lucky with.

I agree with Link stuff. I main Link and his normals are ridiculous.
He has too good normals for a turtle

Stop running up on him while he's using the menu then complain when he thwacks your ass or magic burst kills you at 20%.

The only thing that bothers me is the fact that Hero's charged fireball can do 34%, while Robin's charged thorin can only do 14%

More things like this, less things like tripping. I'm glad that he realized what kind of RNG makes things fun, while losing control of your character for no reason was just jank.

>Rush him down
>But don't rush him down
The state of smashfags

Yea Forums is bad at fake fighting games too? Who could have imagined

people pretending to play comp on Yea Forums are talking out their asses. half the people bitching about Hero probably play some low tier character, have never been to a weekly, and will never play any sort of money match in their lives.

Quickplay is where all the fun is, it is what most people who own the game are playing, and yes you are going to get plenty of different matches besides duels even if you set it in your preferred.

fire>electricity

>get put to sleep because I'm clinically retarded and didn't shield or jump in time
>okay I will just mash out, not a big deal
>Hero half charges a forward smash before I can mash out and wake up
>get hit and die
>repeat in 50 matches vs Hero

Yeah, I'm thinking I'm triggered.

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>No, because it's fundamentally not meant to be a competitive fighting game.

>muh intent

>you will never fuck Maya
feels terrible man

To be fair, those are like a 1/200 chance. Smash crit being 1/8 is a little incomparable in that regard. I'm sure Sakurai was thinking it would be balanced by the fact that Peach can pluck whereever she wants and doesn't have to hit someone to do it. But it might be able to go down to 1/25 and still come up enough to be enjoyable.

>Snooze works on airborne opponents
Why.

thoron pierces, remember this is a party game you are supposed to play with 4 people

Rush him down when he has no MP to fuck with you or clearly isn't using the menu.

You can shield like all his "OP" spells except Kaimkaze

stinky

>Hocus Pocus

Let me put into perspective how fucking stupid it is to bet on that ever being useful to you.
Hocus Pocus is a gamble within a gamble, It will either
>Use one of your other spells (including Kamikaze)
>Afflict you with a random status effect
When I say status effect, I mean every power-up and punishment you could ever receive. You could get a final smash, or you could die instantly. You could get shrunk, witch timed, lose all your mana and be poisoned, somehow I got Eigoned. When you consider how many negative effects there are to this spell, how many amount to something incredibly situational, how you could accidentally Kaclang or Kamikaze or Zoom, flower yourself, break your shield, you’re pretty much better off not using it.

Furthermore, Heal heals 10 damage. You literally just cut the last attack that hit you out, assuming it’s not something that does over 10 damage.

Bounce isn’t really all that broken unless you’re one of 5 characters for 12 seconds of the match, and even then, all you gotta do is play keep away, maybe close in and grab him, etc.

Just face it, you’re a scrub

Won against a couple of Heroes today with Mewtwo, and they don't seem that bad. Though they didn't seem to know that shield blocks shadow ball, so they might have just been shit.

One time someoen used hocus pocus and got the super mushroom effect. All that did was let me up-tilt them for 10 seconds straight.

doesn't Thorin go clear across the stage? Kafrizz has pretty limited range for a projectile

>If you just play perfectly, you can beat somebody who randomly got a crit after randomly got a boost after randomly getting a superstar/bigger, so therefore it's fine

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What is your percent at? Because I could mash out of it all the way up to 60%. I once got out of it before I even hit the ground when it caught me in the air after my jump. At the point where you can't mash out, Hero could have killed you with back air anyway.

Chances for them are far lower, and in the case of the Bob-omb, counterplay is possible. Her pulling a Bob-omb doesn't immediately mean she hits you with it. You know it's there and you can do something about it.

When Hero crits, there was no way to predict it and there is no counterplay after the RNG to minimize the potential danger.

I play against M2 just an hour ago, he throws shadow ball right to the head and shield didn’t save my life

They’re in other fighting games, why not Smash?

Obviously, but why wouldn't you want to carry that momentum further? If you're at 150% and they're at 40%, they can just kill you. A few good reads they could have you up to 40% in no time and your advantage is gone.
If you explode instead then you push them down a whole stock, maybe even KO them out of the match.

Why are you letting him open the menu three times in a fucking row faggot

>Furthermore, Heal heals 10 damage. You literally just cut the last attack that hit you out, assuming it’s not something that does over 10 damage.

11, but still. It also has a limited number of uses until either you die or you KO someone. So you might only get 30% heal a stock at best and it is still the next rarest spell, tied with Kamikaze and below Hocus Pocus.

You should be banned for posting this. Go back.

pretty sure i just 2 framed a guy with kakrackle slash, take that as you will

This is a terrible argument and you know it, G&W's one random move is slow with a tiny range that only has a small chance of being good damage-wise, and the chance of peach pulling bob-ombs and mr. saturns are less than one percent.
Hero has 4 chances to get a broken move with his down b and he gets to do it at least three times without attacking, it's not remotely the same ballpark as those two.

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I love Hero so much he brings out absolute seethe. Ganondorf meme characters are instant free kills. I fucking love this. Hero is so fucking strong

This

It's ok you fucking losers hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha geeeeedttttttfrfrf nigggfled on

Oh. Guess it makes sense that shadow ball's jank trajectory passes over shield sometimes, but I've never thought about it.

/thumbs up

Yes and Robin has five different gauges, while Hero has one. He can't just throw out his stuff without worry, since his recovery is tied to MP more closely then Robin's other attacks. If the two had a zone off, Robin would win because he can keep it up for longer, while Hero's big spells drain him in just a couple attacks.

Kafrizz also gets blocked by other projectiles really easily, I have wasted 35 MP many times because of this.
Meanwhile something like Samus charge goes through almost every other projectile, thoron pierces through and can hit multiple people.

Then why are so called "competitive" players freaking out about RNG? The better player will win in poker most of the time, that is a game based on RNG, so why can't smash players handle it?

OK then Michael

I wasn't paying close attention and I don't want to watch the video again. Did Sakurai show what Kirby looks like when he swallows Hero? Did Sakurai actually make the devs do 4 different Kirby heads for the same character?

Babbies first game of chance

It's not free but there's definitely plenty of opportunities to pull out the menu.

>either you or the opponent being offstage
>after a followup
>across the map

>be a hoe
>be mad
>be so mad that it actually sets off your programming

HOES MAD

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Bayo was actually worse, but people conveniently forget. If memory serves, I believe at some point a literal RANDOM WHO defeated even Zer0 with vanilla Bayo in Smash 4, and several other top players were defeated by randoms as well. She was literally an auto-combo character that would kill you from one touch. And she stayed that way even after her "nerfs".

Hero's magic burst shit is the only attack that is truly honest-to-God bullshit. You can still rush him and kick his ass and go around his other bullshit.

You left out the part where Hero has to read AND navigate a menu, THEN wait for active frames, but I guess honesty wasn't your endgame.
t. fought Hero in tournament

so you admit smash is a casual game, finally

They're insecure about their game not being taken seriously since it mostly isn't.

Whether it can be handled or not is irrelevant. Even if Hero is the literal worst in the game the fact that he can randomly take stocks just by getting lucky when no one else can is bad design.

Remember, DQ in Japan is banned from being released on a workday. It shouldn’t be surprising if it appears he had the most effort put into a character in a long time.

DQ is to Japan what the Bible is to western society, almost.

Can Villager pocket Hero's projectiles like the sleep thing? Or can they be reflected by Fox or Mario or whatever?

>All these people seething about the rng
>Especially people like Leffen or Armada that sure as fuck will never be competitive
is this the same feeling anons got when uncle dane bitched about the crits in tf2?

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>They're insecure
>spend the last 10 years shouting "party game party game" at literally every smash thread

lol okay

Wow, the same character that's always in the top 8...

Same with Samus’s fully charged ball.
If you aim to his head (slightly above the shield), the projectile will not interact with a shield, and also hits who try to small jump

>Yea Forums - I'm not a tournyfag
>Also Yea Forums - Hero is so broken, where's the patch? Pls ban him the RNG is ridiculous

Hero is incredibly slow though. And all of his aerials except for Uair take half a second to come out. I can't play this guy for shit.

>play as a character that doesn't do well with keep away characters
>DUDE WHY THE FUCK AM I STRUGGLING SO MUCH

>\V\ is one person

Hero's MB is worse then people realize. He's not invincible while using it and it has bad start up. So rushing him with when you see it in menu is pretty viable. I've hit many a hero out of the move and then they have no MP. Don't even have to put myself in danger, get slightly close and then any projectile save Fox's laser will make him stop. It's only going to get seen when Hero is at a major advantage state, either while edge guarding or a lucky tech chase where they opened the menu and it was first option and they had the MP to make it worth it.

Otherwise I would say that about half the time, Kamikaze would be the better option if they are ahead a stock.

>Always in the top 8...
Bait confirmed

>big vee

Tf2 fag here

Yes, it is

Yes, all of those apply. The only thing they can't is Kamikaze and MB, but Ness and Lucas can absorb those. MB can also just be shield, while Kamikaze is the only one that can't.

>Implying anyone on /vee/ should be taking this game seriously

>Yea Forums: stop casualising and making games less deep
>unless if it's smash because of this meme I saw 10 years ago

>Marth or Lucina OP by spamming shitty long reach sword
OMG GOOD, JUST LIKE MELEE!!!
>The Hero is OP
>NOOOOO, SAKURAI FUCK YOU!!!!

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> the most mechanically deep character in Smash history
>casualizing
dumb meleetard.

I love it

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>> the most mechanically deep character in Smash history

>i pick hocu pocus and got big and won im so good

Why are people being so facetious in this thread

>MP management
>Different levels of specials
>Menu
I don't know, Hero seems pretty deep desu

Funny that those characters do really well against Hero. Their amount of stage control makes him unable to effectively use any of his spells, unless you get stupid lucky with Down B. Just fair'd off stage and even with his good recovery, it doesn't matter since they just do it again once you are back.

Choosing Hocus Pocus in tournament would unironically be a hype play, considering its the rarest spell to appear and its more likely to backfire than not.

I don't think anyone can argue that the initial design of smash is a casual fun experience

i am a tourneyfag

No it's not a "bad design" it's just part of his character. He's designed very well actually, and is a lot of fun to play as and to fight against.

It really is the big dick moment. I want to see someone pick it and get something they need, even if it's another spell. I once cast it in air and it used Sizzle, just happened to catch my opponent and kill them.

>MP management
You barely have to manage shit. After every hit you gain like 10 MP and you get 1 mp just for standing there.

I agree that the menu is harder to get used to but I don't see how it makes Hero more complex.

You have to hit the enemies first.

Except he is though. Smelee top 8s is always the same people which means the same characters. Dumbass.

Here, just watch ZeRo's tutorial on using Hero.

youtube.com/watch?v=TVERpHO4qso

Smash is a game that can be played at a high level wherein opponents try to beat the other in a 1v1 best of 3 or 5 scenario. There is money at stake and people get serious about the competition.
If this is not a competitive game then I would like to know how you define a competitive game.

>intelligently using randomness in the heat of battle isn't good or deep because it makes me sad

I'm personally glad that Smash keep adding white and asian characters while ignoring pajeets, sandniggers and niggers.
You should be glad that Smash is still in majority white

More complex compared to who?

>needing a guide
>needing ZERO of all people to guide you
oof... yikes.

>oof

Go back.

>If this is not a competitive game then I would like to know how you define a competitive game.
Yea Forums only measures how competitive a game is by the size of its crowd-funded prize pool

and why does this character ruin that?

>Yea Forums only measures how competitive a game is by the size of its crowd-funded prize pool
Actually Yea Forums only measures how competitive the game is by the size of the average players dick. In the case of smash Bros the average player has a tiny 5 incher. Meanwhile us fortnite Chad's have 10inch mega schlongs.
Therefore fortnite is more competitive than smash.

He doesn't. I like Hero and he has strengths and weaknesses just like any other character (except Pikachu for some unholy reason)

There's good randomness and "i get invinvible lol" it's like arguing using a +4 wild in uno is a "brilliant" move.

how is it "insecure" to call smash what it is?

how about you let Sakurai decide how he'll be balanced. I'm awaiting the incoming unneeded buff for him next update.

but smash isn't created, design, or updated with the thought of smelly virgins taking it seriously in mind. Uno is a fun game where a +4 makes everyone go OHH SHIT and take a shot. It's not meant to be taken seriously just like smash isn't.

HP has way too many things it can do to ever put your trust in it. It's also rare as shit only coming up every five uses on average. Someone is never going to bank on HP when they have Oomph right next to it, especially when it can kill you.

Is it bullshit that it can happen in principle? Maybe, but in practical terms, the chance of someone getting that kind of buff in a game is probably smaller then Peach getting Bomb.

Name 1 (One) other character that can even get a Star or Mushroom, let alone both and also tons of other broken shit.
>HP cost 20 MP and can make you cast any other command menu spell that costs less then it (including Kamikaze), force you to just a random normal, deal 33% damage to yourself, inflict Witchtime on yourself, shrink yourself, lose all MP and put yourself to sleep.
That’s not the point retard.
It’s
FUCKING
IN
ADDITION
TO
OTHER BROKEN SHIT
YOU DENSE MOTHER FUCKER
I’m 100% certain at this point the people defending this broken character are retards that thinks beating scrubs online and with their friends dictates their opinions.

Ouch dude, yikes

Will Leo win EVO?

please see

>muh intent

Okay so by that logic it's okay to play All Stars, Brawlout, Rivals of Aether, Brawlhalla, etc. competitively because they were intended for tournaments, but not Smash, an extremely similar game that they were all based off of.

You make that assertion, but Sakurai states in directs that it can be played as one and has added options in this game to make it more like one.

Little dicked smashfag detected

>the concept of something being "broken" in a party game
shut the fuck up retard. This user is completely right and BTFO all you smashfag retards

Earlier they said FD was the only stage played on and that Fox was the only one that won melee tournaments. They're full of shit and they know ti.

How shit are you at this game? Are you incapable of learning how to counter characters?

>makes spammers seethe because of Bounce
>makes tourneyfags seethe because of RNG
>makes casualfags seethe because they think he's broken
>makes rosterfags seethe because he's a 'wasted slot'
>makes children seethe because he's a 'literal who anime swordfighter'
>makes Yea Forums seethe because he's fun
Is Hero the greatest character of all time?

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How many battle passes do I have to buy before I become a big-dicked chad?

He's definitely part of the "character people pretend to like just to spite other people" group of characters in Smash.

Yes

I could kind of see the point of it not being a legit competitive fighting game in 64/Melee/Brawl due to the shit balance, Smash 4 already put the 'not real fighting game' crap under scrutiny but at least it had Cloud and Bayonetta to feed their viewpoint
Now? Ultimate is by all definitions a competitive fighting game, with a lot of options added specifically to cater to Tourneyfags and casualfags, at this point it's just sour grapes from faggots because they lost every excuse to not recognize it as such
>H-Hero is just RNG
So is Faust from GG, Croagunk in Pokken, Phoenix Wright from UMVC3 and such, characters that rely on luck aren't new to fighting games
>S-Stages aren't viable
Tourneys are subject to ass-rapings if they step on a protected song during a stream or such, so they mostly default to stages they know have no issue (that's why they don't use the battlefield version of other stages, despite it being exactly equal to regular battlefield)
>I-Items have to be turned off
Believe me, if Street Fighter X Tekken could have eliminated gems from the game entirely, they would have, at least in Smash you're given the option
>C-Characters aren't balanced
This is the funniest one, Ultimate is balanced enough that almost the entirety of the cast is viable, so much so, that many competitive players bitch BECAUSE they have to learn 50+ not positive matchups, unlike other games where you need to only realistically learn between 8 and 15 matchups that can easily be trivialized by pocketing certain mains
>M-Melee
Regardless of popularity, no one wants to deal with the huge space required for setups with big ass TVs
Ultimate will make 'serious FGC' fans seethe for a long time to come
And that's hilarious

>Because she got nerfed a whole lot
What could she do before her patch that was game breakingklyl good that she couldn't do after?

I'm calling it
>Made fair and bair slightly faster while lowering their damage by 2%
>Increased the hitbox of FSmash
>Increased hitbox of first hit of DSmash
>decreased crit chance to 1/12
>decreased cost of fully charged Kafrizz to 30
>decreased the cost of Kaswoosh to 14
>slightly decreased the height of Kaswoosh

Yikes ........ Imagine taking smash seriously. It's just one DLC, why don't you try using him? He's "broken" right?

Why does Hero get random crits but not FE characters?

This is the same community that got Little Mac nerfed to the ground in Smash 4 because they couldn't figure out how to intercept his dogshit recovery.

no, smash is a game where 90% of the content has to be banned so a few autists can pretend they're on the same level as guilty gear, starcraft and quake.

Fighting against hero makes me wonder if Simon even needed to "balanced" with slow projectiles if Sakurai was just gonna let hero go ham with them and still have good melee speed on top of sword disjoints. Samus is pretty fun to beat him with though.

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>less than 48 hours
>refuse to adapt to a new character with huge, obvious weaknesses

I don't know all his moves as I haven't bough him but what the hell is that insta-kill purple shadow ball thing? Doe he just randomly have a chance to pull that out? Why does he have a movie like this?

Hero is the most unique and fun character that has ever existed in ANY smash game to date and yet a bunch of virgin tryhards are crying because he has RNG IN A GAME THAT IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
shut up retards. Smash is not a serious fighting game. It never was intended or designed to be, and hero reflects the fun zany cartoonishness that smash is at it's core.

>Nigga is slow, has bad frames, and isn't even very good.
>BUT SOMETIMES HE CAN HIT SLIGHTLY HARDER.
>AND THERE'S AN EXTREMELY LOW CHANCE HE CAN ONE SHOT YOU.
Wow what a fucking monster! Just broke the game wide open!

>(that's why they don't use the battlefield version of other stages, despite it being exactly equal to regular battlefield)
I thought some of them also had walls, like Duck Hunt, so it made it possible for characters with wall jump to do some stuff. So not all of them are able to be used in replacement, as those are counterpicks.

>the most unique and fun character that has ever existed in ANY smash game
He's literally just a lazy amalgamation of a bunch of different characters with a nice coat of paint.

Down B is honestly pretty overrated, it's mostly just useful for oomph, psyche up, and bounce once your opponent is knocked away (though magic burst at the ledge is complete and utter bullshit, I'll give you that.) Besides that he's got completely mediocre normals, a better charge shot, a good and jank recovery, and a poke tool that does tons of damage in level 1 and 2 side b. Overall I'd call him high tier.

And yet he's the most fun to play with. Combining good elements of previously done things to make a new fun thing is what innovation and art is, user.

That was a thing back in 64, though.

It's in their Final Smash
Realistically, Squeenix is very strict with how the DQ Heroes are portrayed across all media, it isn't unbelievable they asked it be implemented in some way and Sakurai decided it'd be more fun the way it is now

t. called Smash 4 Cloud mid tier on day one

Not him but I just presumed I was awful at mashing. I have yet to wake up from It and not get punished and I think it's all me.

What is it about Akira Toriyama artwork that draws in the worst shitters?

>has sword disjoints
>can hit 20% harder, 10% more knock back, up to 60% more shield damage, can go Monado speed fast and stack them all while still getting potential crits

For all you "competitive" smashfags, here is how to actually make smash competitive given what it is:
All fights are 2 minute no stock fights
Both players have to have their characters chosen at random
the stages are chosen at random
all items are turned on
Anything else is a joke

More fun than (float back fair all day) swordies

>He's literally just a lazy amalgamation of a bunch of different characters with a nice coat of paint

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I'd rather stick to maining Wario & Snake than play the latest shiny toy. His voice samples are annoying to listen to as well, lol.

why do casuals do this everytime? i remember when they were saying krool was broken

>RNG IN A GAME THAT IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

You've been debuncted when you said Fox was the only character that won in melee tournaments and FD is the only stage played on earlier.

Even if it was "le epic party game" that still wouldnt' excuse it. Imagine if one of the characters in Mario Party could randomly get a star for no reason at all instead of everyone having similar chances of BS happening.

If anything, they'd use Nintendo's tournament rules.

The only swordie I bother playing is Ike. Shit tier but pretty satisfying.

I didn't say that retard, I"m not the only guy shitting on smashfags

That too, yeah
Still, the biggest issue is the Music and since no one wants to spend 15 minutes making a diagram of which part of the songlist is poison, (+ their random chance of playing because stages have more songs than ever due to series unification in My Music) they default to what's absolutely safe in many cases

If you’re aggressive towards hero, he’ll struggle to get any spells out. The rng can still fuck you though.

Casuals are pretending that flipping a coin to automatically win is genius game design just to spite other people.

>Ike
You're alright user

>Even if it was "le epic party game" that still wouldnt' excuse it.
it's excused just fine in mario kart. then again, the mario kart fanbase isn't autistic and delusional like smashfags.

Casuals don't want to/don't think they need to put in effort to be decent at a game, so when they get pubstomped by shit like Hero or Ganon or K. Rool, they automatically think it's a problem with the game rather than themselves.

I even addressed the "muh intent" argument earlier. Those were literally the only arguments casual elitists used in this thread and pretty much ever

You retards say that about every single new character that gets put in.

> because he has RNG IN A GAME THAT IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
Because RNG is bullshit. I would be complaining in literally any fighting game. (inb4 not a fighter bla bla bla)He's unique, and that's awesome. He could still be unique without this entire character being RNG. Also stop being intentionally obtuse, people are obviously talking about the character in a 1 v 1 matchup on legal stages with no items, not a 4 player FFA on 75m with item on very high.

Mario Kart has had RNG bullshit from the very beginning though, so there's clear precedent for it.

You have to be precisely positioned and timed right to get the going to even land. Or the coin being tails instead of heads makes you lose.

I mean they wrong about Ganon and K.Rool because they actually have to make a huge read to win instead of randomly getting an auto win.

>Monado speed fast
It's actually faster. To the point that I would say it's actually detrimental to him. 20% more knockback while using it and entirely possible to clean jump past the stage. He also falls stupid fast with it on. So you better not try going low when it is up. Makes for some stupid chases at high percent though. No other character can easily chase a 120% into the air and true combo them off a down throw.

>casual elitists
no matter how hard you try to apply this buzzword to everyone else, it will never not be a perfect description of "competitive" smash players.

What is the fucking point, then? That the RNG is inherently bad? Because that’s wrong, considering other fighting games across the board consider characters that rely on RNG to be low tier. The lone exception is Faust of Guilty Gear, but he’d be tricky without his RNG because of his insane range.

Furthermore, you’re overblowing how big this is. The chances of you getting a mushroom or a star is low. Insanely low. First you have to hope hocus pocus shows up on the menu, then you have to hope it’ll give you one of two things out of at least fifty. There’s also the part where choosing hocus pocus could kill you just as easily as your opponent. The scenario you’re describing is more on par with Peach pulling out a bomb instead of a turnip. Insanely low chance to happen and it’s still not the end of the world if it does.
Hell, there’s only 3 things (4 if I’m being generous) that are worth pulling out 100 percent of the time when you down b.
>Oomph
>Psyche Up
>Accelerate
>Bounce
And bounce is useless if your opponent doesn’t have to rely on projectiles

>letting him stack all those buffs in the first place
>not just going agro on his ass

RNG characters also exist in (real) fighting games

>no matter how hard you try to apply this buzzword to everyone else

It's accurate because you're really elitist about playing smash the way you like itlike you accuse competitive players of doing

Is there ANY scenario in which Kaclang should be used if Smash Balls are off?

Nice strawman. Incineroar, Plant and Krool are all fairly unique characters, Hero is not that original outside of basically having items built in to his moveset.

>Hero
>Literally a hero
>not expecting him to be the greatest
?????

do people not know that they can jump?

RNG has been in Smash since Melee.

>Incineroar, Plant and Krool are all fairly unique characters
Could have fooled me with how much people were screaming about how similar they were to other characters.

Mind games.

You mean like Hero? All of his "instant-win" moves require hard reads on anyone that's competent.

You can do it in the air to go straight down like Kirby's down b.

Theoretically if the times almost up you can use it to time your opponent out.

Warlock/falcon punch and you can also gimp with it in midair since you turn into an anvil essentially

I'd argue that Accel isn't something you should 100% always take. It will fuck your follow ups in most instances and being 20% lighter really makes a difference. Yeah, much harder to get hit and can pull off some stupid shit, but some characters might be able to punish it well enough.

So you hate this guy too then, right?

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>dubtrips

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Bounce is a ten second reprieve that only sometimes appears.

It's worse than pretty much every other reflector in the game that characters just have on command.

not really? there's the normal people pointing out that a party game is a party game, and then there's the compfags who act like they're prime daigo because they play a party game with most of the content turned off.

I jus said I'd call it bullshit in those cases too. Are any as bad as Hero though?

It’s the ultimate taunt

there is literally no reason to respect 1v1 matchups with no items on 'legal' stages as a real thing in a casual party game, and no reason to complain or try to change a character because of how he functions in this setup

>Doesn't give one solid reason Hero should be banned, all greentexting
>blind defending
OP just because you're not smart enough to come up with counter arguments, don't get salty

based fast faller main

Level 2 Side B has surprisingly bad vertical range.
Level 3 does a shitload of damage and kills really early, but it's telegraphed as fuck. If you get hit by it, it's entirely on you. Also, if he tries to spam it he loses all of his MP and therefore loses over half his moves, and now has to rely on his normals which have years of startup.

waiting out arsene

It takes so little time for him to cast those spells all he has to do is land a attack that pushes you away to buy the time he needs to cast them.

But you could just as easily avoid/parry/shield/interrupt Warlock/Falcon Punch. In fact, it would be easier to do those instead of going through a menu and looking for Kaclang.

and is an annoying shit game exactly for that reason

>can't convert replays of videos where you play against Joker and Hero if you don't own the DLC
You've gotta be shitting me, might as well just say "pay up goy or you're losing your replays next patch"

Whenever I do it, I start mashing the pause button to avoid getting punished.

Sure there is, it's the standard of god knows how many people that play the game. It's relevant because it's not one random dude in his house playing with these settings, it's hundreds of people who own the game playing with these settings. Why wouldn't it be worthy of discussion? This isn't some random variable thing 10 people do on a bored summer day.

No one is claiming RNG is new to the game, but stop acting like Hero is just a little RNG like G&W judgement or Peach puling bomb. You know it's different. You know this is a unique case.

yes, and faust as well

You can't do any of that to Warlock Punch.

Now THIS is the correct answer. The best thing about Hero is there finally being someone more blatantly overpowered than Joker.

>You know it's different
It isn't though. It's more RNG, like that has existed in the game (party game BTW) since 1999.

>BRO JUST DON'T MAKE A SINGLE MISTAKE, HERO IS ALLOWED TO CONSTANTLY MAKE SUPOPTIMAL PLAYS AND ONLY GET LIGHTLY PUNISHED, WHILE IF YOU FUCK UP ONCE YOU DIE AT 0%, THIS IS ENTIRELY FINE

It's pretty much the ultimate casual series. Why speedrunners bother dealing with the RNG is beyond me. The RNG fucks you in the ass even in casual play.

get cancer and die

Get cucked poorfag.

It doesn't seem to make his attacks much faster, but I might be wrong. All I've seen done with it is players trying to run up to me and F-smash but still getting parried and punished.

No there isn't, the relevance isn't changed based on whether or not people like to play one way or the other. Hero is fine and RNG built into a character is fine, 'competitive' smashfags getting mad at this doesn't change that.

Not a big fightan' fag, can someone educate me on these niggas

he only has time to cast about one or two spells whenever he hits you away
oomph/psyche up/accelerate/etc are not that bad to deal with on their own

the only deadly combo is psyche up + oomph because that shit will break your shield instantly

>not really? there's the normal people pointing out that a party game is a party game,

Going into every smash thread screaching PARTY GAME PARTY GAME for 10 years straight sure is normal.

You are really upset about nothing.

english please this is america

REFLECT

No, I'm right and you're a virgin

It’s really, really not. The RNG here isn’t going to consistently make or break your round, and if you rely on it, you’ll lose just as much as you’ll win.

>Hating literally the worst character in the game
>Also hating Zappa

>You can't avoid Warlock Punch
>You can't parry Warlock Punch
>You can't shield Warlock Punch
>You can't interrupt Warlock Punch
Nigga?

serious question have you ever met those "casual" cause even at casual gatherings i never met anyone that actually enjoy items and chaotic shit

Probably because it's how most play the game and no one cares about your little group of 5 butt-buddies who play on Palutenas temple and great cave with items on high and smash meter. Just sayin..even fucking casual retards will sometimes lay sans items and scoff at retarded stages like Pac-land and 75m.

Shut the actual fuck up retard.

This is great.
I'm glad they added Hero to the game.

Literally have $80 on my eShop wallet right now. It's not that I'm poor, it's just that I don't care about the DLC right now but something funny happened against a Hero match yesterday. Honestly it's pissing me off, enough that I might even just stop whining and buy the DLC right now

It doesn't, his frame data doesn't change with it,unlike Monado Speed, which is the biggest reason for Shulk to use it, aside from making himself untouchble.

Accel is like a mini combination of Speed and Jump in a way. He moves stupid fast, jumps about a head higher, but is still just as vulnerable while using it.

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the people who want to ban things are always in the wrong, you play a fucking childrens game. learn to fight in real life you want competitive play

i hate everything that's luck based, mario kart, gambling, you name it

Waiting out Limit, Arsene, Time

Not that user but the easiest way to deal with WP is to just grab. The super armor makes it a little inconsistent.

>You can't interrupt Warlock Punch
How much fucking super armor does that thing have? I know it is stupid hard to just slap him and get him out of it, it can be grabbed though, right?

Because they don't

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Even more so than bathing, they think the shitty gameplay is still good. Like I grew up on GameCube Mario sunshine, melee, chibi robo pikmin and last year I buy a cube and all those games, the only one that holds up is pikmin 1 and 2. Sunshine is still decent, but after playing ultimate how could you possibly go back to melee and actually pretend its still good? For its time it was amazing. Big deal, its time has passed. Ultimate will eventually be in its place but so far it seems it will live longer than melee ever did. Because it has everything melee had, but bug fixed and better. The ONLY thing I like more about melee is that in melee pichu was the shittiest shit joke character but I played him anyway. Pichu is mainstream op garbage in uptime and it makes me sick when I play him because he's just way better now.

>No there isn't, the relevance isn't changed based on whether or not people like to play one way or the other.
Yes it is. Turns out you're not the established source on what makes something "count" or not. Just be aware when people are discussing him they are not talking about in a casual 8 player FFA high-item rate Smash ball fest on Hyrule Temple, because they aren't.

> Hero is fine and RNG built into a character is fine
It isn't.There is far too much. It's almost like people can have opinions though, imagine that.

>The RNG here isn’t going to consistently make or break your round,
Really just sounds like you haven't touched the game since his release.

competitive fags will NEVER be the priority. you know how they should fix hero: keep him as a fun character in a fun game

>properly identifying the genre that smash is in isn't normal
>but spamming Yea Forums with multiple threads 24/7, throwing a shitfit over every character that gets added, obsessing over the roster, refusing to take a shower, shitting your pants at tournaments, booing other games for not being melee, etc. is totally normal!

hmm idk maybe play something besides kids party games if thats the case?

What will be broken about Banjo & Kazooie?
Will Wonder Wing do 50% and kill at 30 and have ~4 frames of endlag?
Will Egg Drop and Egg Shot have all 5 Egg types?
Will Clockwork Kazooies be a thing?
Will Feathery Flap allow them to slow their descent?
Very excited for them.

It seems like a good stalling tool for some match ups. I'm really hoping the command menu gets more usage when players start figuring out how to use hero. Would seem like wasted potential otherwise.

>Smashfags seething that their game is a party game

Only very rarely. Most people like to beat on each other without interruptions. Items break the flow of combat too much, since then you break off of fighting to go grab it and depending on character, you always know who is going to get it.

Even in FFA settings, people more prefer just using the moves of their character and shit like a tomato, heart and the like is just seen as annoying and cheap.

Nothing will be broken but people will complain anyway

That's what I'm saying, bro. Grabbing him interrupts it.

It has very strong SA but it isn't perfect. Grabbing him interrupts it.

Every single one of my friends likes mario party the most out of nintendo games
then again, all of us are attractive people who go to the gym, have real jobs, and relationships and sex lives, so I can see why our perspectives would be different from a bunch of virgins who take party games seriously.

>thing doesn't become relevant just because its relevant user!
Do you think before you post?

"Real" fighting game autists are barely any better

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>it's how most play the game
that is so far from the truth its hilarious

At least Hero isn't OP in the sense that Meta Knight was in Brawl. It's literally just RNG rather than being that good.

>casual elitist seething that not everyone plays like he does

Crits should work like this:
>Every second, Hero's sword has a 1/100 chance to start glowing for 15 seconds
>If Hero lands a smash attack during this time, it's a crit.
>The glow is clearly visible to both players and takes a second to become "active."

There's your RNG, and now it's leagues more fair.

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75m sucks. You know it, I know it, Obama is aware and even Trump can't satnd it.

Then study chess or go, oh wait you're not smart enough.

At the very least they cant kill you at zero because of RNG

>people like this have a wife and kids
this is why the world is the way that it is

If someone as ignorant as you exists, of course they are going to 'shun' the competitive scene, because they fail to understand it entirely. There is a difference, you know, between airing grievances and saying "BAN HERO OMG HOLY SHIT SMASH 4 BAYO" Not everyone is a grandstanding exaggerator here, I've got a sneaking suspicion you like to lump everyone into one camp though.

You must hate life then

>screeching in every thread about how people are playing the game "wrong" with options that were programmed in by the developers is normal

Can't speak for Faust but
>BlazeBlue's Taokaka has a projectile move which can throw things ranging from a BaseBall to a Bowling Ball
>Pokken's Croagunk randomly buff/debuffs his enemy/himself, has a move that takes advantage of this
>Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3's Phoenix Wright needs to gather evidence while fighting, but not all he can gather is actually usable, and even if you got 3 good evidences their effects are different when used
>King of Fighters' Shingo could score critical hits on his first appearance
>Hero in Smash can score critical hits and has access to over 20 Down+B skills, but has shitty normals and he's limited to 4 randomly chosen skills whenever he uses Down+B

>but smash isn't created, design, or updated with the thought of smelly virgins taking it seriously in mind.
But it does. Every game made by Sakurai uses the “There is something for everyone”.
And honestly, items only still are here because casualfags would complain, even though they make up 5% of the audience.

OR
>Let Daddy sakurai do whatever the fuck he wants to do to a RPG character

>NIGGA JUST RUSHDOWN HIM JUST COMPLETELY IGNORE THE FACT THAT SIDE B AND UP B ARE SAFE OUT OF SHIELD LMAO

Textbook autism.

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Hero's RNG isn't even the kind that's broken. He's a double edged sword. Part of what makes a good character is consistency. Down B being random also means you don't get the shit you need when you need it all the time, and leave yourself open to being punished. Tons of players are going to try and ledgeguard and hope for snooze or magic burst, not get it, and leave their opponents time to recover. His 1/8th chance at smash crit isn't something I like, but it also isn't a super big deal either because if you're getting hit by a charged smash attack, chances are you were gonna get fucked anyway. None of this shit is consistent. If you're relying on it, or getting beat by it specifically, you're probably the bad one. What REALLY makes Hero strong is his predictable specials like B and side B. Those are strong moves that go from charge level 1 to 2 in a split second as long as you don't mash.

OR
>actually don't design a character badly

>Turns out you're not the established source on what makes something "count" or not
And you aren't either, neither are the smelly smashfags
>It isn't.There is far too much. It's almost like people can have opinions though, imagine that.
So what? Your opinion that your party game isn't competitive enough is worth as much as the toilet paper stained with my shit before I flush it

>something that might happen once in the entire time you play the game until you die

A lot of people play the game that way. There, same result, worded differently to sound less smug. And still 100% true.
It's just a relevant as the people who play with items saying Hero is fine. Both have merit. One does not exclude the other due to it's existence. I don't even know why this is a point of argument in this fucking thread.

It's a RPG character, how else would you design him? Actually it doesn't matter. It's not your game lol

Why don't you use him and reap the rewards of all the OP juiciness from his bootyhole?

>he's limited to 4 randomly chosen skills whenever he uses Down+B
You say that like its a Negative, when most characters who do have RNG moves are forced into using what they get.

>Most of his down b attacks are close range.
>Just interupt him with the long rang attack almost every character has

>Dude, Bro, lol
As if adding these buzzwords to any statement you disagree with in an attempt to invalidate them will ever substitute for a real argument

I know you dont' want to ban hero from the game, but there is talk of banning hero from tournaments. that is unforgivable

So with the (optional, anyway) items off, please tell me what makes a 'real' fighting game different from Smash
Any non-descriptive answer is also an admission of faggotry
Thank you

>picks bounce
>lol

>casualfags make up 5% of the audience
>this is what smasfag 'competitive' players actually tell themselves

Just jump nigga

>And you aren't either,
Unlike you, I'm not claiming to be and sayng the other is invalidated because "well, I said so mang" like you are, fuckface.
>le take a shower hurr durr
Just fuck off, you love vcasual smash sotp getting tilted not everyone plays it that way and perpetuating childish memes. Grow up, act like an adult for 1 whole post.

>Your opinion that your party game isn't competitive enough
You might want to learn how to read. I haven't said this anywhere. Maybe stop using your head as toiler paper and take it out of your ass.

Zappa is one of those really complex fightan characters in terms of individual mechanics, and it’s partially because of rng. He’s certainly the most complex puppet character

>Zappa is a man possessed by several spirits. At the same time. And they’re all fighting for dominance.
>In gameplay, this means that he has access to several puppets; however, because of the fighting for dominance thing, he can only use one at one time, and he can’t choose which comes out when
>You summon a spirit by using a move, or by getting hit
>He has access to a sword that floats around and gets further from him as he attacks, a dog that replaces certain buttons, and three ghosts that add hits to his normals and gives him a projectile that makes more projectiles fly across the screen when hit
>When he hits with a special, this gives him an orb. When he has 8, he can summon Raoh, the spirit that turns him into the unequivocal best character in the game for 15 seconds

However
>If at any time he is hit, he loses his spirit and his orbs
Raoh can’t be dispelled, though

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Yeah because the 1 in 20 chance you get Bounce is really going to upset the strategy and the fact still remains that if you get hit while scrolling through the menu it resets so you'd have to be lightning quick on Bounce

For anyone complaining about snooze.
youtu.be/lTZi7t7joUg?t=2262
Mashed out of at 75%. Shofu didn't even get a chance to do anything with it. I'm pretty sure a Jiggs sing would have been setup for rest combo at that percent. So snooze isn't as good as people think it is, unless you are just a really poor masher.

I’ve been playing Hero since he released.

You can’t get consistent wins if all you do is fall back on your RNG.

i agree i was just stating the vast majority of smash players are casuals who will play with items and never touch wifi

>but there is talk of banning hero from tournaments.
No one is entertaining that here nigger. Not a single fucking person. He hasn't even been played at a single relevant tourney yet. He's fucking 2 days old. Are you like talking but Leffens joke petition or something? Where are you pulling this from.

>No-Banfag actually have to resort to outright lying and claiming positives are drawbacks

And a good chunk of them are negative and prone to backfiring on him, moron.

What the actual fuck are you on about?You can't NOT fall back on your RNG, you have RNG aspects whether you like it or not.

only if he picks one spell

a few pro players are actually really salty about him. they are always salty though

REMINDER:
>YIKES = YIKEZZIZLE
>COPE = COPPUDDLE
>CRINGE = KACRINGE
>BASED = KABASED
>HAVE SEX = PUFF-PUFF and/or COCK-IN-DOODLE DOO

This has been your Official DQ Vocabulary Correction Broadcast!

Attached: erdrick.jpg (1920x1440, 279K)

I've played hero for like an hour total and I've done it twice so far.

Fucking gay, why aren't these banned? REEEE I'm triggered

Getting upset at party games is a tradition far older than videogames.

I just reflected a snooze yesterday with Mewtwo and smashed him out of his last stock.
You snooze you lose.

IF I beat you with an RNG f smash, I AM better than you and trying to cope with "randomness isn't skill" makes you sound retarded,
Go try to play poker with the best in the world and see how well you do. Poker is completely random and thus shouldn't require any skill, right?

Erdrick = Arusu

It's not one in 20. Bounce is one of the most common spells you can obtain so it's more like one in 5. That can easily be obtained by winning just one neutral exchange.

>cringe
>kacringe!
Fun times ahead

He's been out for less than a week. Surely your game is not so shallow that you can declare a character ban necessary in such a short amount of time.

>WHO PUT MY NUDES ON TWITTER DOT COM???

Is there a chart or something showing the percentage of spells that are likely to show up in the menu?

Leffens barely a human being, "pro player" is a stretch :)

ssbwiki.com/Command_Selection

Wasn't it Loto?

Hey guys can some of you tell me what the references are in the Here's classic route?

I know the Rathalos is meant to be the secret dragon bosses you can fight throughout the game and Eight's just supposed to be him and his mouse but what are the others?

Erdrick is a title and it's the name he's most commonly associated with, like Eleven is The Luminary

The thing with Hero is that many of his specials come out fast but are all lacking in one way or the other, they all also consume MP
>Sizz is fast but short ranged
>Kamikaze kills you
>Magic Burst uses up all your MP
>Whack is a shitty projectile, if it doesn't kill it did nothing
>Kaboom uses 30+mp
>Kaclang leaves you vulnerable to grabs/smash attacks
>The slashes come fast but are short Ranged
>Hatchet man takes years to land
>Hocus Pocus can fuck you and cast Poison/flower/Kamikaze on you or more
>Zoom and Acceleratle can screw you over
Oomph/Psyche Up/Bounce/Snooze are the only 'good' choices
Hero depends more on his Neutral and side B, and regardless of charge, you can't cast them if you lack MP
That, plus his shitty neutral game make him well balanced

Poking fun at the Sakurai direct guys

Spamming Down B. You’ve only really got a case with Crits, and even then, his smashes are slow enough to where you’ll see it coming if you’re paying attention

The last stage (Robin and Charizard) references DQI where the final boss would start off in human form and then become a dragon in his second phase.

DQ hero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robin

The whole thing being inconsistent is the entire point you dingus. Do you think people complain about RNG because it's accurate and consistent?

Fair enough, there are still people who are legitimately confused so I wanted to help

>All of the Translated names are better than the original names

How the fuck does anyone prefer Evil Slash to fucking Hatchet Man

Once upon a time I tried to forward smash a ganon who was 75% through his warlock punch. Little did I know.....oo so little did I know...

>like Eleven is The Luminary
Speaking of, that title appears for him in the Boxing Ring. I would guess Erdrick appears for Arusu and Solo would get Hero of Zenithia, while Eight would get Princess Guard or something

>how else would you design him?
Like I said before.
>It's not your game
Sakurai being retarded doesn't hinge on whether or not I own the game.

I'm fine if the RNG only has a modest impact but most of Hero's kit revolves around RNG so it just doesn't feel very good. You end up fishing for f-smashes until you get a crit and sometimes you just get lucky and end up taking a stock at 30.

Kabased and redpizzled

Or
Or!
Stop relying on a 1/8 percent chance to kill early

Or.
OR!
Don't design a character badly.

first one is a bunch of slimes and one she slime. Second is Luminary and Veronica. Then there's Solo in the stand in for Zenithia I presume, although Palutena Temple would have worked better for this. You already get Rathalos is a Dragon and Eight and Munchie. Erdrick is Erdrick. Not sure if the lava area is a reference to any place in particular. I guess it could be the path leading to Orochi in Zipang but that seems like a weird choice. The last one is the Dragon Lord, final boss of DQ1.

Their titles in the boxing ring:
11= The Luminary
3= The Legendary Hero
4= The Zenithian Hero
8= The Dragovian Descendant

Out of all sorts of localizations I have seen. Hatchet man is actually a pretty good take on Evil Slash. It really puts out the idea of INSTANT DEATH pretty good, even more so for it's upgrade, Executioner.

If you rely on something that doesn’t work all the time that’s on you faggot. You’ll see better results if you just go with the sure thing.