Who is your favorite video game villain?

>Hero
Okay Edelgard

Thats not Nate Grey

He's in a grey area. Light certainly subverted the black and white bullshit, although he certainly began to lean towards evil as shit near the end. He became corrupt and egotistical.

>main villain is actually one of the joke characters you come across who's motives are better than the protag's
>main villain sets it up so protag is fighting a very black & white evil guy with the idea they're the main villain
>protag gets caught up with the ego of being a hero because of this distracting them from questioning whether or not the person they're fighting is the true mastermind
>main villain gets to freely orchestrate their plan with no obstacles

Cyclops
its honestly surprising it took him so long to get a design with an x on his face, i mean he's the leader of the x-men

>cyclops
>villain
nah he was right

>only did what he could to protect his mom and himself
>rats are well known for surviving in the worst conditions

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That is a pretty good bait picture user.

>cyclops
>villain

*FFWWWWHHHHOOOOMMMPPPPPP*

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>Benevolent in the long run, but
>Began to lean towards evil as shit near the end
Light was always evil and always an egomaniac. His transition from "I just want to kill criminals and scumbags who threaten society" to "I wanna play god" is incredibly short, and all it takes is one detective on TV announcing he's going to get to the bottom of this for him to start killing cops, investigators, and anybody else who threatens him, smiling smugly all the while, not even emotionally distraught over having to kill good people incidentally to get his perfect world.

For fuck's sake, his dad sacrifices his life to unwittingly further his goals and all he cares about on his dad's deathbed is whether or not he succeeded. Light's a piece of shit and was never heroic, he just had the bright idea to go after "Acceptable" targets.

What does cyclops do to make him god tier?

cringe

So DAO villian is achually High tier. Dark spawn is only evil because God punished them for trying to reach golden city, so thay mid teir. And Archdeamon is just an eldar who was corrupted by daek spawn so he has no control over his mind anymore. He is basically the
victim of circumstances. BTW Logain might be great tier but it is for you to decide.

also wind waker ganon has the most nuance out of any other incarnation

But this is true. Japanise games has no good villians.

Be right, for one.

The main character in Undertale

one of the few best characters in the series holy fuck i love him

Shit taste. The edgy and cliche subversion is the least interesting thing you can do. Portraying evil shitheads created by evil as evil is actually a good storytelling decision. If fucks like you had their way the Skaven would be misunderstood victims instead of the delightfully demented cartoon villains they are.

Griffith doesn’t have enough exposition on him

Light is 100% a villain that lusts for power.
He's a completely insane man with an ego overshadowed only by his messiah complex. He wanted to become a god and rule the world.
He's an extremely well written human being but he'd be in the same tier of "NANOMACHINES SON" Armstrong

Revolver Ocelot?

The man, the myth, the legend.
youtu.be/UJhP10gX5cg

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Volgin from MGS3.
He would probably fall into "shit tier" going by your pic, but goddamn is he charismatic and fun to watch.

it isn't subversion and you clearly don't know how to use that word
many 'villains' in classical literature were mid tier and above. grendel and his mother come to mind, as does the cyclops from The Odyssey.
looking outside of that, most villains in the most conservative literary canon also fall into these categories- captain ahab, nurse ratched, mr kurtz, etc
you also miss a central point of W40K's world/lore which is that everyone is a villain to the point that there no longer is a hero/villain dichotomy
you should probably stop posting

Light stopped being justifiable when he killed Ray

Hannibal Lecter is also, at his core, obeying his nature

He was never a villain, he was just playing 12d chess

>main villain is the Pope and kidnaps your wife

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Robotnik. He can be anything and everything. Sometimes he's silly, sometimes he's serious. Sometimes he's a manchild, sometimes he's sophisticated. He's blatantly evil and you still kinda want to see him succeed.

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What level is Sans in?

>What level is Sans in?
Brainlet-tier. The list doesn't go that low though.

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Does he even count as a villain?

>story faggots

I play a game for gameplay. I didn't need complex stories to kill Bowser or fucking Ganon on the NES. He's a bad guy doing bad things go get him.

If I'm a fucking faggot that seeks story enrichment from a fucking video game I should kill myself for being a insufferable retard. Reverse the list and have a fun time.

I mean that’s true, but I feel like he’s still a villain despite playing all sides and being Big Boss’ greatest fan

lol

not a villain at all you twit

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But I'm already having a fun time. There's plenty of villains to go around for all of us.

Skaven come from fantasy where there are very literal incarnations of cosmic good and evil.

Have a bad day today, user?

It's a tier list faggot.

I can’t really think of who my favourite is, but Isshin from Sekiro is a recent one I really liked. He was more of a secondary antagonist considering he actively assists you in the first half of the game and you share the same goal and Genichiro fills the role of main antagonist. Isshin was very charismatic and entertaining even if when Genichiro kills himself to resurrect Isshin, he only fights you because it was Genichiro’s final wish. Very fun secondary antagonist though.

Pagan Min from Far Cry 4 was pretty good as far as Ubisoft games go. He was a massive cunt but as events unfold in the game you learn the two other factions you’re supporting would be even worse than Pagan if they gained control of the country. And if you just do what Pagan says at the beginning of the game and wait ten minutes while he takes an important call instead of escaping and going on to massacre his armed forces for 10 or so hours, he takes you to the place you were looking for and the game ends peacefully with only a few unnecessary deaths. The guy only wanted to be your adoptive dad and take you on a roadtrip of violence and debauchery before giving you the country to rule. He might be a cunt but you can’t hate him.

I also really liked Grigori from Dragon’s Dogma, though like Isshin he was a secondary antagonist. He’s very charming, has a cool design, and even though he’s not that active in the plot until near the end his few appearances are all big moments that feel worthwhile and leave a sizeable impact on the plot. Once you learn why he does what he does and that he essentially has no free will in the matter, he becomes a pretty tragic figure when you replay the game too. One of the best dragons in video games hands down. It also helps that his fight is fucking awesome even if it’s kind of easy. Didn’t challenge me the same way the hard parts in the rest of the game did, but the experience they created around fighting Grigori was fucking excellent.

>U MAD XD

Pretty sure nobody fucking cares

I saw it more as in terms of character depth or complexity. But I guess this is Yea Forums so you're probably right.

Villains that are evil or lust for power make for entertaining theatrics when well-executed.

>literally behaves like saturday morning cartoon villain, except more pretentious
>good

He literally in the first episode declares he can govern the world as it's new god after realizing the power of the book. Dude was fucking power mad from the start, later on he had no problem targeting not criminals and outright good people to ensure he was safe.

Hannibal is too smart to be simply following his base nature.

>Who is Emet-Selch

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ha ha, vey good one, ha ha

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>fucking ray
>Naomi
>makes his dad die in a big brain scheme to save himself
>L
>calls himself a god
>"He isn't a hero or a villain/anti-hero"
Get off your own cock edge lord I unironically really like death note but only edgy 13 year olds think he isn't a villain.

trias the betrayer was a pretty interesting villain. AM is amazing.

and of course dagoth

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The Archdemon should be mid-tier by this chart's own logic.

Where would society be?

How well a villain is written is completely separate from this chart. It doesn't matter how complex or convoluted or sympathetic a villains story/role is if their written like shit, Ardyn from FFXIV is a perfect example of that.

fuck meant XV

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Archdemon from DA:O is a bad example. I would even put it in the mid tier category by this list, it pretty much is just driven by its nature.

Also, who gives a fuck about it? Loghain is the quality villain in that game. Why didn't they put him in there?

>tranny 14
Off to /vg/

I don't dislike antagonists that are bad for the sake of being bad, unless the writers go to extreme lengths to make them so cartoonishly evil in an effort to make the reader/viewer/later hate them instead of trying to make a believable character
Kefka is really the only exception because he starts off as a sort of comic relief asshole who seizes an opportunity to gain true power, then immediately just nukes everything because he wants to play god in a manner similar to a kid burning ants with a magnifying glass

Upset your straw man of Kefka can't protect you? Like XIV or not Emet-Selch is unironically one of the best villains in the fucking medium in the past few years.

Player*, not later

>Loghain
>quality villain

Loghain is the direct cause of the civil war by retreating from Ostagar, then refusing to take responsibility for doing so and trying to blame the Wardens. He refuses to accept any option where he's not ruling Ferelden even though Anora is an adult and doesn't require a regent, and he directly precipitates the civil war by trying to assassinate Eamon, also for no good reason.

It's not just the retreat at Ostagar, the entire game is a progression of one retarded decision after another from Loghain
>claims he retreats from Ostagar to preserve the lives of his troops, who he then wastes fighting a pointless civil war he caused while doing nothing about the Darkspawn currently ravaging the land
>blames the Grey Wardens for killing the king rather than taking responsibility for his own actions
>tries to have the remaining Wardens murdered even though they're the only ones capable of ending the Blight
>tries to have Arl Eamon assassinated for literally no reason, for which he murders templars to free a known blood mage
>makes a deal with Uldred and promises freedom to the mages, precipitating a civil war that without the Warden's intervention would've killed the entire Circle when Ferelden could least afford to lose them
>trusts Howe even though he murdered all the Couslands, conveniently removing the main obstacle to Loghain seizing power, and is an obvious psychopath
>best of all when confronted with all his obvious mistakes and how badly they've fucked the country over he refuses to see what he did wrong, just like you're doing now

His behavior doesn't make a lick of sense. He's more of a plot device than a character.

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>not an argument

smart people still get married so your argument is invalid

This chart is completely backwards.

The best villains don't have some dumb noble comic book hero 'plan', it's just that they want something humans have, so the conflict sets itself up naturally.

Xenomorphs want hosts and DNA, it's not personal or cerebral. It's technically cerebral with zombies, you could say (but not really.) Vampires have the thirst. Dragons need gold and virgins.

These kinds of conflicts are the kind that culturally resonate on a deep, instinctual, human level. No one cares about your dumb mastermind villain who wants to wrest control of the balkan states so he can have more oil production to finish his superweapon.

>Like XIV or not Emet-Selch is unironically one of the best villains in the fucking medium in the past few years
Says who? He's being praised for the same people who think Kefka is the best villain ever (including game journalists, who make all those top villains lists where Kefka is the #1 pick), so forgive me if I can't take you seriously.

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He could absolutely be written as the Hero and you wouldn't really need to stretch anything at all.

>Live in a boundless paradise, never using the planet's resources for your own petty needs
>Your race is able to use their own internal aether to create anything the imagine, including living beings
>There's no war, sickness or death. Society runs on debate and whether or not your creation ideas will benefit life as a whole.
>A Sound run out from the center of the planet, monsters start appearing in neighbouring countries
>This triggers an imbalance with your people's creation magiks, stray thoughts and fears lead to the accidental creation of unimaginable horrors. The end of the world is nigh.
>You, along with the 12 brightest among you arrive at a solution: use your creation magick to give the Planet itself sentience and the ability to heal.
>But there's a cost, since you wont use the planets aether, you have to use your own people. No cost too great, half of your species WILLINGLY agree to sacrifice their lives to bring the planet to life
>It works, the planet lives, and it puts a stop to the madness plaguing its inhabitants.
>It does not have enough strength to repair itself, lakes are burnt, forests are gone, the planet and most of its life are ravaged
>Another half of your people step up and offer themselves to provide he aether required to restore life to the planet.
>Again your living planet pulls through and life flows freely. This includes a random byproduct: lesser life forms now start appearing and inhabiting the planet. They have very little internal aether, life finite lives and cannot self sustain. They need to bleed the planet dry to sustain themselves.
>You deem this life inconsequential next to your friends and loved ones who willingly gave their lives to save yours. Decide to offer up these lesser beings as aether to your planet, so that it may return your people back to life.

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That's a good question. Who is he?

>One among you disagrees. Sees this new life as just as valid as your own. Rebels and summons a counter force to your living planet. This new being sunders everything in existence, the planet and its people are split into 14 shards of themselves. Each shard, each copy of the planet is lesser and more feeble than the last. The power of your sentient world is now divided and sealed into these 14 shards. Only you and three of your people escape whole and with the memory of what life used to be like.
>These new worlds start from the beginning, living out eons whilst never knowing of their true history. Your people are forgotten. You decide, for a time, to live among these new, lesser beings. You live our multiple finite lives alongside them, you grow with them, sire children with them, die with them, try and lead them to even a fraction of the greatness your people once held. Only to be met with resistance, war, sickness, death and pettiness.
>You eventually try and put things back to how they were. Restore the world to its original state and bring your people back to life. You are opposed. It's your life, your people and your history versus this new life and their people and their history. Your people were good and noble and gladly sacrificed their lives for the betterment of others. They on the other hand are petty and squabble and lie and cheat and kill each other. They can't even survive without bleeding the planet itself dry
>The winner will be seen as the hero in the eyes of history
>You lose. Your people will never walk among the stars again.
>Accept this fate with a glad heart, you look at the champion that slayed you and for a brief moment, you see what they truly were: a shard of the person that originally rebelled against you and your people. You just share one last smile with them and ask that they remember you, and remember that your people lived.

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Because he's more then just a paper thin world destroyer his motivations are both understandable and rock solid, by the end of the MSQ he's super fucking sympathetic and you're basically killing his world and all the people he knew and loved by stopping him. Saying he's shit because he is in the same series as Kefka is a fucking weak excuse to blow him off FF has over 20+ games if you include all spin offs dude.

Must be nice sitting in the seat of perfect hindsight and story awareness. I think Loghain was shit because he doesn't achieve what he sets out to do and makes terrible decisions, but to pretend his motives weren't valid given his understanding of situation, the political overtones between Orlais and Ferelden, the thorough lack of understanding of a centuries-gone blight, the diminished presence of the Grey Wardens and the veracity of their motives forever stained by again, Orlais politics and their own behaviour in Ferelden in the past, and just generally how fucking dumb his king is .

Loghain fails, Loghain would never have survived because of the nature of the blight alone, but he was acting with what limited information he had in a way that if nothing else, is consistent.

>b-but people like Kefka
You have 0 proof the same people praising him are the same people who once said Kefka is the best. I'd love to see you put up an argument without using one guy as an endless straw man. Kefka isn't 1/1000 of the character Emet-Selch was.

Would Mr. 20 minutes be high or god tier?

see

>he's in the same series from a game that came out like 25 years later so that means everyone who praised kefka is praising this guy and they're the same thing.
Don't you dare compare Kefka to Emet again in your fucking life.

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Ahh I see. Almost makes me interested in this game.

Are you talking about Logain from Dragon Age? He betrayed the king because the king was going to form an alliance with a country that he had fought a war against. The king was going to let them into the country and Logain suspected that they wouldn't leave afterwards.

According to your list he is Great or High Tier.

You can't value one life over another. Especially a life that was willingly given to a god that may or may not be evil in a chain of events that created 13 new worlds and an uncountable number of innocent lives.
It makes sense from his perspective, but his plan is utterly irreconcilable with any of the people he intends to annihilate.
The way you have written him in your example does not make him a hero. At most, it puts him on the level of Nier. A person you know is doing the wrong thing that will doom perhaps the entire world, no matter how sympathetic or noble their goal is.

Sure...if the Sound happened again, half of the Source would not willingly die to stop it. Difference being, however, they wouldn't have to. In true rpg fashion, we'd find the root of the problem as it crops up and deal with it, instead of leaving neighboring countries to fend for themselves and debating over possible solutions like Amaurot did.
Still, Emet-Selch is one of my favorite antagonists and my favorite Final Fantasy character.

>You have 0 proof the same people praising him are the same people who once said Kefka is the best.

From a simple Google search:

>I'd put Emet Selch up there with Kefka and Sephiroth

>Emet-Selch is a new contender for top-tier Final Fantasy villain (Up there with the likes of Kefka!)

>I actually did get Kefka vibes in the cutscene leading up to the final trial. Just batting good guys away with a snap of his fingers and they just keep coming back, stubbornly. I half expected to hear him say "You all sounds like chapters from a self-help book!"

>I agree, Kefka and Emet Selch the best villians in the whole franchise.

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>At most, it puts him on the level of Nier. A person you know is doing the wrong thing that will doom perhaps the entire world, no matter how sympathetic or noble their goal is.
ah man i forgot how good of a game that was. too bad the sequel sucked

VERY GOOD, IT WAS A STATEMENT!

YOU FF14 TRANNIES ARE SMARTER THAN I THOUGHT!

Aight big boy fair enough you found 0 IQ game journalist who completely misunderstood who Emet-Selch was, you just gonna ignore all the shit posted in this thread and say
>lol same series as Kefka
and blow it off?

Read nigga read anything posted recently, don't fucking compare my boy Emet to your strawclown, literally nothing that drives him is the desire to be crazy or just kill. He's fucking doing it to try and revive his own world and loved ones.

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I GUESS I WILL HAVE TO IMPROVISE

You need to get some sex bud.

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Actual Kefkafag here.
You can enjoy FFVI for all it's worth, it's a really good game. Kefka is one of the villains I enjoy the most in pretty much any rpg, though that tends to be because most rpgs don't really have antagonists that make the game that great.

To claim that Kefka is a good villain or a well written character, however, is fucking laughable. NO ONE enjoys Kefka for his character, his personality or his backstory. He is the embodiment of "I am hilarious and you will quote everything I say." He literally just fucks the entire world over because he feels like being an evil cunt, and then he stops halfway just to give the heroes a fighting chance cause it's a video game. He might as well just have murdered the entire planet there and then to make his point about hope. He ceases existing entirely after his rise to power and only becomes relevant again at the very fucking end of the game where he screeches about how hope and friendship sucks.
Kefka was fucking awesome because he presented a great twist at the halfway point. He just fucking wins, usurps Gestahl, takes the magic of the Warring Triad for himself and blows up the fucking planet. Everything you built up, your entire team, all gone. Also, Kefka's Tower has an amazing ost and the final boss is pure kino.
None of that is due to his writing though. Anyone who claims to like him as a character is fucking lying or retarded.

>It makes sense from his perspective, but his plan is utterly irreconcilable with any of the people he intends to annihilate.
Why do Japanese developers struggle so much to write villains with more grounded motivations?

Why does everything have to be about ending the world or murdering a bunch of people?

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he's always been a hero but marvel decided to make him a villain because x-men embargo
and overall fanboys never really liked him over wolverine

writers didn't really know how to make him the bad guy, so they decided to make the narrative pretend he was a bad guy

turns out you can't really do that with a character who's always been right

>implying evil for the sake of evil can't be elder god tier provided the writing is good

The fuck out of here with this oh the bad guy was actually the good guy and you should have just let him win crap. It's over used as all fuck.

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They aren't even people to him though, it's not like it's a soul for a soul, it's quite literally a lesser 1/13th of a soul for a full one in his eyes. It's like if your friends and family got turned into a bunch of barely functioning troglodytes and were told to accept their existence rather then bringing back your family and friends.

He is unironically right and is only a villain because the story frames him as one, that's it.

>Kefka was fucking awesome because he presented a great twist at the halfway point. He just fucking wins, usurps Gestahl, takes the magic of the Warring Triad for himself and blows up the fucking planet.

>in the ending credits we see the world restored to its natural beauty and lush forests, as if nothing happened
>after Kefka blows up the planet, all the towns still look the same on the inside (except for two towns)
>even the fucking auction house is still going on as normal during the supposed apocalypse, and has the same npc saying the samee shit
>even after ascending to godhood, Kefka can easily be beaten by a bunch of puny mortals

How did Kefka 'win' exactly?

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Not him but he kills most of the worlds population, rearranges the face of it, unleashes monsters everywhere, the world is dying because crops are refusing to grow, and shatters the party after spending the first half of the game. So much so Celes attempts suicide, Setzar and Terra lost their will to fight entirely, and Strago joined the cult of Kefka over the course of a year. That's a win, he doesn't win the war but he sure as fuck won there.

>wanting your friends and family back isn't grounded
die frog poster

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Because he blew up the world and took over, which you were trying to prevent him from doing. You may kill him but he still won. Even if you consider him eventually being defeated a loss, he still left the world a smoking ruin that will take centuries if not millenia to get back to where it was, and he took the espers with him in death. To defeat him, you basically genocided an entire race.

Can I can a summary? All I know comes from the first movie with that was pretty poorly received but this sounds interesting. I love when the antagonist has a motive that isn't just that they're evil or want world domination

I realize that, but that's precisely what I mean when I say that his plan is understandable, but irreconcilable with his victims.
For your example, you have the right of it, but don't get upset if said troglodytes, who outnumber you 17 trillion to 1 don't take kindly to being genocided to fuel a god that MIGHT bring back your friends, or so you tell them. We don't even know if that's true. I believe Emet is telling us the truth when he says he BELIEVES Zodiark will bring them back, but that doesn't mean it's the truth.

He became the undisputed God of Magic, but immediate retardation made him unable to just win outright because otherwise we wouldn't have a video game. It's purely a plot contrivance.

Boomer who played FF6 here can confirm I like Kefka cuz of the surprise. FF6 is my favorite but Kefka isn't the best villain ever let alone in the series. As a kid is was really surprising and off putting to see the clutz you you trounce single handedly usurp the current main villain, take over the triad and kill Leo, then blow up the world. It meant at lot as a kid cuz it was blindsiding. Nowadays everyone knows Kefka is the big bad and that takes away from it a lot.

Basically everyone decides to shit on mutants all at the same time. Cyclops decides to tell mutants to move out of the way of the shit, this somehow makes him Ultra Hitler for not wanting his race to be exterminated.

>be cyclops
>mutant friends and family harassed 24/7, ostracized, sent into hiding, and sometimes killed
>decide to be a hard ass on the law that this shouldn't happen
>don't even kill anyone just tell Mutants to stop letting themselves get shit on
>he bad guy now
Like I said it's literally just because the story makes him one, he's unapologetically right.

>wanting your friends and family back isn't grounded
It stops being grounded when it involves destroying a bunch of worlds and countless innocent people. It's too over the top and impossible to take seriously.

This is a lot less complex than I thought it'd be.

He literally took Phoenix power and told everyone to surrender or die. I know it's also Tony's fault but those were his decisions, at least before full power went into him.

It makes sense if you paid attention to rest of it.

He's still right though, what he's asking isn't even remotely unreasonable he just wants their to be harmony between his kind and humans and doesn't want to be racially exterminated.

Bit more complicated then what was said, he basically is trying to use fire birb's power to issue an ultimatum over his peace or he'll use it to wipe everyone out and was getting pretty desperate and dangerous. Considering all he was asking for was Mutants to live in harmony it's hard to consider him a bad guy or fault him.

He didn't, he wanted mutants to rule the world as superior species, he literally became new Magneto and wanted actual House of M, just without most getting what they desired.

>all these niggas talking about X-Men
I only saw the first two any others I should watch? Everyone says Logan was great but haven't heard much good else where.

Logan is a must and I like first class a lot. But you kinda need to shift through the shit to understand what's going on, the universe is pretty fucked at this point in terms of time and consistency.

I agree to an extent. That’s why he’s a villain. He’s trying to bring back an old, dead civilisation at the cost of a multitude of lives. He just has his reasons. It is interesting that you compared him to a PROTAGONIST from another game though.

With Selch, his method’s are abhorrent (to an outsiders POV) but his reasons are sound. He even questions the Scions what they would do in a similar situation and they flat out admit that yes, they’d probably go to the same lengths.

You have to remember Emet’s plan throughout the MSQ. He flat out says in his first scene “perhaps there’s another way, a way that avoids further bloodshed.” He doesn’t want to murder people, he just wants his people back, and the entire MSQ is him trying a different approach. He even saves Y’shtola after she ‘dies.’ The Warrior Of Light IS his solution. We managed to accomplish things him and his people never could (albeit thanks to outer dimensional beings.) We not only crossed dimensions WITH our corporeal form but the Crystal Tower managed to travel through time. Emet’s people never managed time travel. That’s why he’s so close to us in the MSQ, that’s why he takes G’raha Tia. He wants to know how to do it. Like he said, he wants to do it a different way that avoids bloodshed.

Think about it, the WoL and the Scions accomplished Emet’s exact plan, we saved ourselves and our planet from calamity. We undid history and travelled through time to do it. At any point in the MSQ we could have shown Selch what he so badly wanted to see and he could have used the technology to travel back and save people from the Sound. That was his whole plan. Why are we any more of a hero for abusing time travel to rescue our lives, our civilisation, our world? The only reason we deny Emet the right to use the Crystal Tower, Alexander/Omega’s power is because if he did the EXACT SAME THING we just did and he saved his people. We would cease to be.

Did you follow that specific response thread? It was about how you could easily write Emet into a hero without changing much, while giving an example for it.

>Did you follow that specific response thread? It was about how you could easily write Emet into a hero without changing much
What work of fiction has a protagonist who kills numerous worlds (and their populations) to bring back a dead world, and expects us to see him as the good guy?

None. That's...precisely my point.

I think it’s more a case where you can write the Scions as villains.

“What’s that? We used a dimensional travelling war machine, mixed with the power of the God of Time and infused them both in a gigantic, crystallised tower that’s filled to the brim with energy enough to propel us back in time with our bodies so we can stop our friends, loved ones and planet from dying. Can you borrow it to do the same for your people? No, that might kill us (though G’raha survives) so we’ll just kill you instead and pinky promise to remember you.”

It’s not Hades being a hero, it’s the Scions being hypocrites and villains.

>Literally does everything for the greater good and to bring true justice that the law cannot
>villain
He might be an egocentrist pseudo-intellectual but his heart is in the right place

That’s just it though. That was the old plan because they didn’t have a better one. In ShB, he stops that. He actively allows you to ruin the plan to rejoin the first. He saves your friends after they died. He doesn’t want to do things the old way anymore. He just wants to see how we accomplished what we did and we murder him instead. We have to, don’t get me wrong, because if he used to Crystal Tower, we’d go right back to being a singular world and people. But at least he wouldn’t be murdering anyone to do it. He’d just undo all the bad things from ever happening. Trouble us, we’re a byproduct of those bad things. But the Scions are totally okay with undoing their own awful history, they don’t even consider any new lives that might have been born post Black Rose. They just go ahead and undo them all anyway. Then condemn someone who wants to borrow their time machine for the same purpose. People seem to forget the entire events of the game are the Scions going through the 8th Calamity and coming up with a way to fix it, even if it means killing anyone born after the calamity.

They are literally doing what Ascians did, only with access to a more humane way to accomplish their goals. A way they refuse to share.

He's mid-tier on that list, but don't get it twisted.

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It's actually pretty easy to fault him considering the leading cause of mutant child deaths is because the X-Men employ them as child soldiers.

What causes Flordia Man to do the things he do?

>le best villain is someone who isn't really a villain
I fucking hate this list so much

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Making a tier list of villain motivations is retarded to begin with. You can be a great villain despite having """""shit tier""""" motivation and vice versa. It's just faggots and "wow he's just like me" losers.

Literally does everything for the benefit and independence of the mutant race, going as far as taking the blame on himself to allow other mutants to live free.
And he was dubbed a villain around the time of AvX in which he is accused of murder even when he was being possesed and trying to build a nation for his race.
He evem went to war with the Inhumans who were trying to literally genocide them and even then he was called a villlain.
He moved on from the petty notion of good and evil and just wants to make the mutants live by themselves without foreign intervention.

>quality of a villain's character rests solely on their motivation
shit tier opinion

>Armstrong
>Taking lives and re-sparking war to use it as influence for political gain where he can enforce his values in office
>Also experimented on children
>Better than Raiden's "you know those things are actually pretty bad and you should stop"

Major writing blunder that irrevocably made Cyclops right for the readers but somehow wrong in his world for defending his race.
There was some disconnect going on for sure.

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Westerners do not see Goji as a villain though.

This wasn't a thread for shitty villains user

>"You could've been happy, if only you would've done as I did and obediently followed the visionary, selfish desires of a great hero..."

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Light is a hero. His actions led to a dramatic reduce in crime rates.

A moral action is one that has a positive outcome. Therefore, he did nothing wrong.

But lust for power is the most realistic motive, so it shouldn't be shit tier.

Stupid. For example, Chrono Trigger has multiple villians.

Azala just wants to protect his people from mankind's rise and Ayla tries to save him in the end. Magus is just vengeance hungry and overconfident. The Robot Queen is logically seeing that she is the next step in evolution. Zeal is power hungry.

Lavos is inscrutable. He's just one baddy though.

>kills anyone who tries to stop him from killing anyone he thinks he has the right to kill
Heh, nothing personnel kid.

Where would he fall under?

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Why the fuck would Irenicus be in high tier?

>lusted for tree power
>got btfo by elf mommy for being a power hungry asshole
>lusted for power some more, this time bhaal flavored

Villains who are just evil, rotten to the core bastards can be great if presented well.

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The final villain of Arcaum is based

Also the Master from Fallout is kino

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Other than General Leo, who you only get to play like once, all Kefka does is kill a bunch of NPCs you don’t give a shit about. They could say he killed billions, that wouldn’t make a difference, you don’t even know anyone he killed. Sephiroth killing Aeris had far more impact on the narrative.

Arvis from Fire Emblem 4 is a much better villain in that regard. He pulls a Walder Frey and kills 90% of the entire cast, including the protagonist. He rules the world for longer than Kefka, and was actually a decent ruler before his incest baby grew up to be an edgelord.

Based

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>building an ethnostate
>defending his race

Sounds villainous to me, but I guess when you idolize your drunk dad who regurgitates Fox News it must seem pretty based.

Meanwhile Breen is soul-crushingly boring as a character, whereas some versions of Ganon at least have the charisma to push him into being memorable.

This entire list looks like it was written by a person who has long forgotten how to enjoy fiction.

>wanting your race to not be shit on is villainous
You're a brainwashed idiot. It's not like he genocides lrft and right because he thinks his race is better, he just wants to end the suppression and wants his race to be left alone.

Superior list coming through

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I like Arthus, but i like the idea that it wasn't just curuption evil magic that made him bad, he just needed a push to become evil

>Godzilla
>Villain

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>caring about your race

Legitimately low IQ. I care about spending my time with intelligent people who have similar goals, and I understand that diversity brings diversity of ideas.

Your white race achieved what it did because of technology and math stolen from the middle east, geographically convenient resources that allowed you to accrue weapons faster, and germs that were not your control.

You're the brainwashed idiot if you think that people immigrating into your country is them trying to get rid of your race.

People who believe in white genocide are either genuinely disabled (in which case I'm sorry) or have been deliberately misled and are too stupid to notice it.

But go ahead and post /pol/ memes and cherry picked clickbait articles!

Im glad his ego came to bite him in the ass at the end, everything he did just made me hate him more.

>Like XIV or not Emet-Selch is unironically one of the best villains in the fucking medium in the past few years.

To be fair, FFs (and by extension JRPGs) have been lacking in good bad guys.

FF15's? You had the empire that was destroyed offscreen and Ardyn got reconned by DLC (which is a sign that Tabata has no idea how to write him)

Whoa there bud cool it with the anti-semitism.

Shit tier. Heihachi only wants power, that's it. Even though he already controls the biggest crime syndicate on the fucking planet it's not enough until he gets his devil gene

Remove valentine and replace it with Jobin and you'd be 100% correct. valentine is a backstabbing ass.

Living in Florida.

Kira is meh by the chart's definitions, because Kira is literally insane.

Your reaction just proves him right.
>comic about mutants trying to defend themself against normies
>makes it about white race & immigration
you're a mentally retarded lefty, if you weren't you wouldn't center everything around this crap

This tier list is one of the dumbest memes.

I hate this fucking list
Loghain would be high tier and the darkspawn mid

Luca Blight comes to mind.

>highly political allegorical comic
>has always been steeped in leftist politics since issue 1
>lol u r just making it political haha

Actual brainlet.

>us comic running since 20+ years
>clearly must be about european issues of recent years
at best it's allegoric to blacks in US, to believe otherwise is simply stupid

snooPINGAS usual, I see

based and inbonhapilled

>villain is setting up an ethnostate to protect his race
>not political

No it is you who am stupid

Sans is the hero of the genocide route

All Cyclops wanted to do was have Mutants survive and live in peace. If anything they are comparable to the Jews in Nazi Germany.

>no you wrong it's politics
>argument was it's not about europe
memory issues or trying to change the topic ? won't make you right either way

Interesting. You have much untapped power.
Do you even realize your potential?

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Have fun, 56%. I like my crime rates low.