What went wrong?

I found it mind numbingly boring. None of your actions had heft. The sounds were all muted and vague. Had the same problem with borderlands. Fucking snore inducing.

And I loved Diablo 1 and 2 so don't say it's just a genre thing.

The itemisation sucked. The font rendering was bad. I couldn't find a build I liked playing.

hate cratoony graphics

grim dawn just got a graphical overhaul and somehow looks worse to me

It sold very well and was popular for a long time.

I think it was a boring game though, skill builds took too long to develop meaning that you were trapped in simple gameplay loops for a long time. Higher difficulties were more about hp sponges than introducing interesting enemy variants, the mapgen created maps that were too large and disorganised, a mixture of too much searing, too sluggish gameplay, and too boring encounters meant that the world traversal really bogged the game down.

It was too easy. I did an energy shield "build" on my first playthrough and was practically invincible by the halfway point. The final boss did literally no damage.

so what are best ARPG's on the market right now? anything besides d2 i already played it for years dont feel like going back for now

>If you bind LMB to move only you can't pick up items
Because it was developed by incompetent retards, OP.

Oddly I enjoyed the first game more, and I can't really pinpoint why. Cautiously optimistic for that next game though

I like following wolcen development for amusement

The area design was actually the best I have seen in an ARPG.
On that note, how come Grim Dawn was so bd in that department despite actual handcrafted areas?

It's still D2.

Agreed.
The game is too cartoony narrowing down the target audience (and yet, it got decent popularity).
If the graphics alredy don't seem an incentive and the story is boring (I know diablo clones don't really excell on this matter but it's another downsize while Diablo I and II had interesting plots and lore).
The gameplay was good if I remember correctly. Fast paced, good variety, etc.

Classical experience?
D2, PoE, GD.

Of which D2 remains the best.

...

It was buggy, so buggy in fact that we sent them Wireshark logs for the bug, too bad they fixed it after we stopped playing.
Overall, I enjoyed the original more but that's only because I like going down to the dungeon more than act structure.

>
>It's still D2.

This. If Warner Bros. made Diablo 2 this would be it. It's a decent game but why play an updated Diablo 2 when I can just play the original?

I think Path of Exile and Diablo 3 (with all the updates and rifts) took away a lot of TL 2's fan base.

Wolcen is in development but the developers don't seem very serious (released an alpha with a lot of content on early access and said "fuck you" and deleted everything and started from scratch) but still looks decent. Nothing close to what D2 was though.

Why wont westenr developers make new Diablo 2 but this time it's good? What is wrong with them?

Something about Torchlight 2 just didn't feel right compared to the first. Like everything felt rushed, cramped together, and messy. Quests were annoying to track and having to completely backtrack to turn them in and pick them back up was annoying. Most items were worthless and builds were sparce.

>so what are best ARPG's on the market right now?
PoE and Grim Dawn. Both of them are just shitting out updates, even though the current PoE league is fucking gay and boring.

>flood your inventory with green items that have mild stat variances
>game is balanced around gear flood so you have the stupid pet mechanic to send him back to the shop all the time
>stupid amount of time spent sifting through your loot to find what you want and selling the rest

the game just devolves into tedium

This and a lot of other problems. It had bad itemization, Elite Difficulty is HP sponges that take forever to kill, bad skill progression, and it has been released not long after Diablo 3.

There's Synergies mod that showers you with epic loot (like in the first game), but that didn't fix all the problems.

It was a fun set of well designed areas and dungeons that provided a solid 20 - 30 hours of gameplay. It sold millions, and may people enjoyed it.
But that's all. It had no staying power. The lack of any sort of good, meaty lore was probably one major reason for that.

>armor system is shit, flat damage reduced from attack = only big hits matter, and armor doesn't do dick against big hits = only defensive stats that matter are HP and damage reduction which are also the only stats you want because the other item stats are shit
>stats are shit, everyone wants max strength, even the casters, because str increases weapon damage and most spells derive damage from weapons = casters pump str and wear big 2h weapons, because str also increases crit damage
>dex increases crit rate and decreases fumble which is worthless because nobody uses autoattack and skills aren't based on autoattack (life leech etc become useless too), also useless for berserker because you have 100% crit rate in frency (str increases base damage too)
>vitality doesn't increase damage, gives shitty returns, way too low life gain
>focus increases magic damage but str does the same thing through weapon damage, mana gain is useless because mana is rendered a pointless mechanic through potions as usual
>items are almost always worthless garbage, uniques 99% of the time have random useless garbage stats with no theme and most are class restricted, which have also shitty stat spreads you are supposed to follow, meaning either no build variety and shitty stats, or good stats and only able to use old shitty items through level req, also patch added new items which require levels over 100, thus forcing you to follow shitty stats
>classes all look the same, attempted to diversify them through weapon animations and class unique armors, doesn't work
>shop prices are so high that you are implicitly forced to pick up everything and have your pet sell the garbage to the shop constantly, which you need to do because sale prices are so low
>shitty skill system, no trees, just pick and get what you want, need almost max level to get the best version of the skill, no +skill items, when you get max level, you suddenly don't feel like playing anymore because you get no more exp
etc.

I just skimmed this but
>shop prices are so high that you are implicitly forced to pick up everything and have your pet sell the garbage to the shop constantly, which you need to do because sale prices are so low
I can already tell that at least half the shit you're spouting in this post is absolutely retarded and probably seen from the eyes of your own incompetence and nothing more. By mid act 2 I was rolling in so much cash that I literally had to go on gambling binges periodically because I had nothing else to spend the money on. I'm usually of the mind that "I have too much money" isn't a problem anyone's had but in TL2's case, how did you NOT have this problem?

>Instead of giving us interesting classes they gave us 4 gutted classes that where all boring to play.
>Got ride of necromancer class even though that was the one class everyone wanted
>Got rid of a ton of lore for no reason
>Random dungeons where boring hallways with zero variety and always having an NPC give you a quest outside of it made finding the random dungeons less of a cool secret.
>Decided to lock people in their new game plus difficulty completely segregating the player base so no one could play with each other.
>Over world may have been 10x bigger but it was filled with 12x more clutter, making the over world feel like a cramped messy room.
>Dropped the game right after it launched. Only updating to give le epic meme pets instead of actual patches, expantions or DLC and left the game to the modders to fix.

Hopefully TL Frontiers is fun.

It's not. It's literally a mobile game.

The company didn't die because of Torchlight 2 its because they spent half a decade disappearing off the face of the Earth to develop the mistake of nature known as "Hob" which they released to literally 0 marketing whatsoever.

Seriously Hob sucks taint

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>Nothing
The entire company went defunct retard.

They went defunct because they went off the deep end, full retard after Torchlight 1 and 2 saw massive success

>focus increases magic damage but str does the same thing through weapon damage
In that case it really comes down to what weapon you're using. Weapons that deal pure elemental damage benefit massively from focus.

It was ugly. And poorly paced. And boring.
Fucks sake, I know that arpgs are famous for being monotonous, but that doesn't mean you should go out of your way to live up that.

Your dumb

You're spot on with the random dungeons being extremely dull and lifeless but it's a pity because all the other stuff is where the game looks good.

The overworld areas, the fixed layout dungeons, if you think back to your time spent with the game that's where you had the most fun. Act 3's tangled forests and swamps and shit really stood out to me in particular. It was amazing that they managed to turn what was the spiritual successor to Act 3 D2 into the best part of the game.

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>implying grim dawn is popular
>implying grim dawn is not shit
Anyway, TL2 wasn't popular because it fucking sucked. These games need to do away with the BULLSHIT. Focus on good combat, good enemies, less aoe/spam, interesting loot, actual balance, actual challenge.... An interesting world is good, but there is no need for a big story and fucking quests. The quests are always a chore. One of the best things about Diablo 2 is that you can blow through them in a few hours. They're still a fucking chore, though. Grim Dawn is literally unplayable because you have to do the same 100 hour snorefest campaign three times for every character. Go and play Final Fantasy. At least it has a (relatively) good story.

>good combat
>ARPG
uh... user?

>Grim Dawn is literally unplayable because you have to do the same 100 hour snorefest campaign three times for every character.
You know you can just skip entire difficulties once you've beaten the game once and just powerlevel with the crucible right?

You can also buy special item, that allows you to start a new char on the last difficulty.

clunky
shitty annoying UX

Does anyone hate the mechanic of "10 second defensive buffs that become essential to survival and must ve kept up all times"? Yeah me I hate that

If we're talking about Grim Dawn's problems.
>physique is the only stat that matters
>most tier 2 constellations are useless
>some original tier 3 constellations are completely outshone by later additions (poor leviathan)
>most builds just boil down to 1 skill and a bunch of passives/actives.

It's a pity because the engineer's charge mechanic was potentially interesting but ultimately ruined by the absolute necessity of forcefield.

Yeah I hate this too. It's my biggest beef with PoE. That game would be so much nicer to play without utility flasks.

so if i had to pick one game between torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn which one is better?

I remember the skill trees being boring as fuck and every skill level past the initial one being awful, small inconsequential buffs and every skill requiring a large amount of your relatively rare skill points to get anywhere.

>make Torchlight 2
>get bought off by Perfect Worlds
>everyone legit leaves and makes their own studio
>some fag start his dream project called "HOB"
>game fuckin sucks and kills the company

Grim Dawn by far