Kills your game forever

>>Don't play defensively, because everything about Hero punishes defensive play.
Isn't that a good thing, in term of making the game enjoyable to play and watch?

Bullshit. You can get lucky in a game of Smash even without a character with RNG. Don't. Let. Him. Pick. From. The. Menu. Is that so hard to understand? Actually FIGHT him and play the game, you Samus maining homosexual.

>If a Hero player gets very lucky, he will win.
seeIt's no different than getting a 9 from G&W or Peach pulling up a bomb.

RNG fighter is literally a common thing in rpgs but you smeleefags probably never touched other games.

If anyone gets very lucky with anyone they will win

>but you smeleefags
Meele already had RGN. He probably doesn't play smash either.

>in RPGs
Yeah, this isn't an RPG you absolute mongoloid nigger.
Hero being a thing basically means that you can't turn items off anymore.

>tfw having fun with Smash bros for once
Best moment was me pulling Bounce on Olimar main TWICE and proceeding to dab on him with 2 stock advantage.
The new stage is pretty nice too.

Attached: DC5808F6-5A00-4E17-9AA9-0DDAE43CE7F7.png (800x800, 903K)

>Hero being a thing basically means that you can't turn items off anymore.
Defenseniggers are SEETHING, holy fuck. Please tell me you don't actually believe this?

whiny baby drama queen

You're right i'm sorry for wanting the content i paid for to not be garbage.

Hero is the best thing to happen to Smash Brothers since CaptainZack fell out of relevancy.
To everyone in this thread, how does it feel to finally get your comeuppance after winning almost entirely by pressing the r button for the whole game? Elite Smash will be full of Hero mains, and it's all your fault. We're all sick and tired of your boring defensive playstyles and Mongolian plains wifi connections. Hero was obviously designed to counter you dumb fucks. Now you'll have to adapt, and finally play Ultimate the way it's intended to played instead of continuing to play the game like it's Smash 4. Cry tears of pooper pain, defensetards.

Attached: 1555043512293.gif (500x378, 1.05M)

>Hero being a thing basically means that you can't turn items off anymore.
So, you have never played Peach, okay.

Well, be glad, then, becaus Hero just improved it.

>that amount of individual IPs
So it's one retard pushing the "if you don't play defensively, it's all fine" line?
I guess that is a relief, it would be very depressing if several people were actually that retarded.

Remember that time Yea Forums tried to beat that deformed tranny on his stream and literally didn't take a single game off him and shitters still make threads to this day complaining that every character is broken in some way or impossible to play against? How can you retards be so garbage at a low skill ceiling game?

It's not your game
their game

Stay mad and learn how to combo, faggot.

Attached: Dedede.jpg (460x345, 38K)

I will, in a game that isn't designed by a retard who thinks rolling endlessly is a good movement option. Sakurai is legit braindead.

which character was the tranny playing?

Holy fuck, you can't even catch stale rolls? You really do suck at the game!

Attached: 1559315289971.jpg (749x375, 32K)

have you ever made a game?

Zelda

No i'm saying rolling is bad you retard, Sakurai was spamming it in the Hero video as a movement option.
Up your reading comprehension you subhuman.

Is G&W a good counter for this shitter? I haven't gotten the update yet since I'm playing MHGU, just fill me in if he can counter his shitty projectiles mates.

who was the tranny?

>you can't judge something unless you do it yourself
Never judge the plumber who breaks your toilet, never judge the cook who spits in your food.
You can't judge their work because you're not working in their profession.

>in a game that isn't designed by a retard who thinks rolling endlessly is a good movement option
Good thing Ultimate isn't designed like that, then.

Unless he was playing some special dev build that changes movement, it is a movement option.

Holy fuck, just stop. You've already outted yourself as a shitter multiple times this thread. Anyone who knows how to punish rolling wouldn't be complaining about it.

Attached: 1538705928313.png (424x494, 282K)

Based Hero working the marks. Going to main him now

I don't like how using his spells effectively essentially depends on how quickly you can parse some tiny text and make a menu input
I imagine if you wanted to use him you'd literally have to sit around for ages grinding out how to most efficiently navigate a menu and practically playing flashcards with all the different spells and effects

Yeah I wish the menu was a little bigger. Nothing worse than clicking Kamikazee on accident

Based Hero
Smash is a party game and should be treated as such

Cant wait for losers to ban him at tourneys pretending it's a serious kids game

That's not Banjo, user.

>Smash is a party game and should be treated as such
It is also a fighting game and is treated as such.

You are the stupidest person i've ever had the displeasure of talking to, Jesus. Please never breed.

It's different for luigi and game & watch.
If they don't luck out on the rng they get punished for it.
Hero can just shield and cycle again, or if he gets a random crit it has no drawback.

menu shit is fine just play around it
random smash that kills you at 30 is cancer

Many fighting games have RNG

This. Don't be a retard and walk into his slow ass smash attacks too. U-Smash literally only hits vertically. Characters Young/Toon Link can zone him out and characters like Fox and Inkling can rush him down while he has to focus on using command select and fighting at the same time.

Being able to shield cancel a bad hand makes the entire concept of down b nonsensical. Sakurai needs to go.

LMAO STAY MAD
seriously who cares the game is made for fun

Too bad the game died before banjo.

>Pretend to be Mom of an illiterate child
>Write complaint to Nintendo about her son not being able to play the character they paid for and how non inclusive the company is
>???
>PROFIT

>he paid for a product without knowing what he was getting.

Attached: 4B2CEB53-C622-45A3-9B0E-C69FEAA94634.png (110x132, 36K)

the virgin Banjo vs THE CHAD HERO

>If they don't luck out on the rng they get punished for it.
That's the same for Hero, you are not making a point, there.

>Hero can just shield and cycle again,
and thus losing his window of attack.

> if he gets a random crit it has no drawback.
Same as with Luigi's torpedo.

Imagining unironically thinking that and then typing it out, then sending it.
Fucking cringe.
Take a shower.

>been getting my ass handed to me anywhere above 4m in quickplay because people are already learning how to counter
wow its the k rool crisis all over again

Attached: 1561754251677.jpg (1262x1232, 282K)

?

?

cosmo

I RIKE DRAGON WARRIOR

see you at EVO.

>Oneshots you and your dumb strategiesband planning
Pssssssh nothin personnel kid

If he gets results it'll be from crits and Oomph, not from Thwack, Magic Blast and definitely not Hocus Pocus.

Neither of those instantly result in momentum for hero like some of his RNG can

>smash community literally have to disable options just to make the game "competitive"

this game man...

>New fighter is added
>Suddenly the 'most super, impossible, OP, invincinble fighter in the history of the game!!' until the next one is added

The skill level of smash players is embarassing, noone can adapt to something new.

Attached: 5head.jpg (1400x1400, 268K)

No need to be so angry just because you're wrong, baby bear.

If smash autists got their way, ultimate would have total of maybe 5 characters and no updates ever.

>Game & Watch’s Judge with a 1 in 9 chance of btfoing an opponent
>”Perfectly fine”

>Hero’s move that rarely shows up and has an even rarer chance of KOing someone
>”Ban his ass!”

BAN HEEEEROOOO

Attached: 1538397282187.png (216x260, 82K)

Theres also a two in 9 chance of being useless and hurting yourself

Jesus, stop fucking whining all the godamn time.

Retard

Why is everyone complaining about his down b spells? Sure, some are really good, but the good stuff isn't always available, besides, it's not the most reliable thing to use in neutral, and the 1 hit ko moves are VERY hard to land, so if you get hit by one of those and you actually die, it's 100% your fault. His neutral and side b are way more useful since those moves are not only are strong but not luck based. His air speed is below average and his aerials are pretty slow. He's not overpowered at all. Op is just a shitter who can't punish rolls for shit.

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Exactly hero will get shit on by any competent punisher if he has to fight someone like g&w and villager and neutral b also gets gimped too

>b-b-b-b-b-but it's bad design!
>he killed me once so it's complete bullshit RNG
>h-he can kill from 0% with 2 rare buffs and getting a lucky crit on a slow easily avoidable fsmash he's BROKEN
Why do smash kiddies always sperg out over every new character day 1

Attached: chadricks.png (2020x897, 850K)

As if. Mid tier, low high at best. His neutral is shit and he’s sluggish as fuck. The spell list makes him an open target, and his grabs are fucking ass. Yeah, he’s strong but ya know.

Don’t get hit by a smash attack.

>Thwack is a joke move in most DQ games
>has Smashies quaking in their boots and shitting in their diapers
Based Kiryl teaching smashbabies a lesson.

Attached: Kiryl Thwack.png (1280x720, 1.01M)

He's mediocre as fuck. Down B is a giant meme that will never be used consistently and his aerials are godawful.

You are right but Smash babies will whine over anything.

>Getting so buttblasted that you ran into Thwack that you have to make a thread about it

so do only his smash attacks have a crit chance?

>playing a 2vs2vs2 Hero only with friends
>match is nearing its end, one of the teams is already completely gone
>Hocus Pocus gives me invisibility
>one of the other team accidentally uses Kaclang, then begs for his teammate to protect him
>in the chaos, everyone assumes I died
>sneak up and assassinate the metal bastard
Hero is awesome

I don't even use the menu. I just instantly select the top option. Embracing the RNG fuckery is fun

This. I've only played like two matches with him, but I don't understand how anyone would even be hit by one of his down-B's. The time it takes to stand still, have the menu pop up, scan the available moves, select one, and activate it takes so long that if whatever it is hits you, you deserve it.

NO WE NEED FULL 8 MINUTE TIMEOUT SETS

Not really. seeing how he is played now, he doesn't seems tobreak the game.

Damn, Hero mirrors are fun as hell, spells are just flying all over the fuckin place

I doubt they'd allow him anyway since Hocus Pocus is crazy

>"competitive smash" autists upset that a children's party game has a fun, gimmicky character
I love it.

They will allow him. Hocus Pocus is not only rare, it tend to more often hit back the player than be an advantage, it will not be an issue.

Exactly. From my experience playing him last night, you only aim for stuff like Oomph, Psyche up, Accelerate, etc. His side b on the other hand is stupid strong and not rng dependent, that's the move people should be talking about. Other than that, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed by how slow his aerials are.

>>"competitive smash" autists upset that a children's party game has a fun, gimmicky character
I don't think any of the people who complain actually play smash competitively, at least not at an high level. Most of the pro so far seems to enjoy the character.

what options exactly?

Dude, a whole match can go by and you may not even see hocus pocus once and if you do, it seems like the bad effects are more common, so there's absolutely no reason to use it at all.

Remember when people called Joker overpowered?

Can't wait for people to call Banjo overpowered!

G&W's Judgement is much different than Hero's spells.

Judgement is a close ranged melee attack that has 1 in 9 chances to be a 9, and even if you land a 9 - it's not guaranteed to kill on certain stages or characters at specific percentages.
Arguably the highlight of the character but nobody gets mad because you earned it since you landed a hard to land RNG move.
Hero has RNG on everything he does, this is not a joke.
His Smash attacks all have a chance to Critically strike, meaning they can kill much earlier than they normally would (videos already show him killing at 30% from two hits).
His Down-B spell list is also randomly picked. Thwack, being the biggest problem on that list, is a slow moving medium range projectile that has a 50/50 chance of instantly killing regardless of percentage (or any other variables) [unlike Judgement]
On top of all this his spell 'Hocus Pocus' which is ANOTHER list within the list of RNG things you can get is stuff like Star Invincibility, Super Shroom, Invisibly, Kamikaze etc.

So yeah, Judgement and Hero is totally the same thing.

That's why you do what said and just insta pick the top option. For every accidental kamikaze, you'll be able to quickly throw out kabooms and flame slashes.

>use Hocus Pocus
>it casts Kamikazee
fugg

Not giving anyone (You)s considering everyone in the thread is a brainless troglodyte who can't figure it out.
Sakurai has hated the competitive scene since Melee. He wanted a party game and it turned into a smelly incel rage pit. He tried to fix that with brawl, didn't work. This probably is just his last straw and trying to shit up the rabid fans.

I wonder if Banjo's kit is gonna be more of a traditional one. Doesn't seem like they could offer any ridiculous mechanics like Joker and Hero.

>a slow character with laggy normals, gimpable recovery and very inconsistent specials
He’ll be lucky to make it into Mid tier

He looks like shit, I don’t think anyone will call him OP

You'd kill yourself fighting Faust in GG.

>Hero has RNG on everything he does, this is not a joke.
No, that's false.

Well boys we did it, competitive smash is no more

Attached: heros.jpg (799x449, 72K)

>Sakurai has hated the competitive scene since Melee.
False, he has come around to respect it.

He’ll be the Ridley of this Fighter Pass - not flashy, and also just not very good

Nobody called Hero OP at his reveal.
I can just imagine it now.
"muh wonderwing can make banjo invincible and hurt you? OP SAKURAI PLS NERF!!!!!!!!!!!"

>competitive smash is no more
How so?

I'm maining him regardless

NERF HERO
NERF HIM NOWWWWWW

None of this would have happened if Sora got picked instead.

Not a better pick
fuck off

>Oomph and Psyche Up stack
SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK?
twitter.com/JuniorA_Z/status/1156385524967305217

Why are smashfags like this? Why do you have to freak out and make 40 threads over anything? Can't even blame kids. Pros were the first to freak out, call for bans and they pretend they were joking.

He at least wouldn't have a janky ass moveset that gives him RNG that is either useless as shit or ball busting good.

Cool.

that thing will be harder to land than a Falcon Punch.

...

>implying it's Smashfags making these threads
Have you learned nothing about the state of this board?

>It’s just like judge/missile/turnips rng
Do people not realize that there are more good spells than just Whack and Thwack right?
Green Missile will be vulnerable on a weak attack 9 times out of 10
Judge will throw out a weak move 8 out of 9 times
And Peach will have 248 or so turnips, 1 Mr. Saturn, and 1 Bomb-omb

Hero on the other hand can heal, boost his stats, put the opponent to sleep even as they are in the air, put on a franklin badge, a super nova in, and have a chance to gain ANY buff/debuff (this includes Victini and Stars), in the game if he doesn’t get a Thwack.
And he can choose from a pool of 4 without much lag too.

Comparing the hero to Luigi, G&W, and Peach is idiotic.

>implying he wouldn't have some retard shit in his moveset
okay

>Unless he gets bounce, Hero gets his shit pushed in by zoning
he has a link shield...

Another anime swordsman from a generic series that nobody plays outside the East. Are dragon ball fans happy?

wow you guys are gonna hate doomguy's gimmick

>pulls out a random weapon
>gets BFG

Oh, and he also can pull out a Rally Flag, making him the only character than can just possibly get a JV higher than the lives count in the format players use.

This was Stevefags' plan all along

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NOOOOO TOO MANY GUNS NOOOOOO
That would be his Final Smash

Joker is OP though

More like, harder to land than Roy's fully charged neutral b. Pretty cool nonetheless.

You are missing the part where it's RGN. Not to mention that the MP bare prevent form abusing of it.

The point is that it does not detriment the game.

aren't all DLC characters overpowered? Remember Bayo?

Hero is a bad character by definition because, in case a player wins by using him, they won't be able to tell if they won by skill or pure RNG.

Peach and Pikachu still dance around Hero.

>implying it's not skillful to manipulate RNG in your favor

Side-B is fucking broken.
>Kills at 50%
>Breaks shield with Oomph
>Safe on parry
>Semi-charged version is a top tier zoning tool

Based
I really like the music for the stage

If you manage to predict it, and even then, you're still completely relying on luck and prediction to make your next move that hopefully will be the winning shot.

Shitter confirmed

Only when fully charged, if you get hit by it, you deserve to be killed.

Other fighting games have RNG characters, that are allowed in competitive environments, and no one complains about them.
Why do Smash players have a problem with something that other games handle just fine?

Don’t kid yourself, his gimmick would be his command menu, i.e, attack, magic, item, etc

>Why do Smash players
these aren't smash players

I don't know about you guys but Hero is the most fun character to play for me... I was having an absolute blast last night just laughing at how much fun I was having with him. Unlike any other character.

It's also about making the most with what you have. So I still think it's skill.

Side B is predictable as fuck.

>OH WOW LOOK AT THIS %70 MOVE THAT REQUIRED ME TO STAND STILL AND RNG THESE 2 MOVES TOGETHER THAT PEOPLE WILL SURELY JUST LET ME STAND THERE AND DO IT

>OH WOW LOOK AT THESE RNG CRITICAL HITS THAT IS ONLY EVER APPLIED TO CHARGED SMASH ATTACKS

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please god let banjo be OP so i can shit all over everyone who doubted he'd ever make it in
would be hilarious having kazooie's grenade eggs kill at like 90%

Crits can happen on non-charged smashes

>i'm so bad i need rng instakills to have fun
LOL

Kaswoosh sounds like a soda

lemon lime flavor

Have you ever seen anything so beautiful?

Do people like you have anything that brings joy into their life

>watching a stream
>the chat is crying about how Hero is going to be worse than Bayo was
These autistic babies are a good laugh

>Why do Smash players
They likely aren't Smash players.

Unsubscribe from my game.

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>a character who relies on a roulette wheel of spells is equal to one who has a reliable stepladder 0-to-death combo
lawdy

>tfw Oomph'd, Psyche'd up, fully charged, critical hit smash attack

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can someone explain the hoes mad meme? seems like black culture shit, i dont get it

>Actually getting hit by half of these nigga’s moves

The shield button exists but then competitive will whine about defensive options because OP

hell, the fact that retards allow Hero to stack RNG buffs should be smacked to the face

twitter.com/hisamea/status/1156414660536459264
>Just use Shiel...

nigger wannabes trying to act like they are the biggest shit ever on twitter for internet points

>Oomph

next

You posted this in the other thread and everyone called you retarded for using a bad snake player as an example.

and the fact that the player has Oomph, which means that you instead dodge than block, or do a parry

>character exists
>smashfags cry endlessly about how they need to be nerfed instead of adapting their playstyles
Every time.

I like how everyone ignores the fact that it's not a single spell that's a problem, it's all of them combined in one kit.

This is a good post.

Fuck off, I hope he’s garbage, so the dlc team can spit all over the fat autistic boomers faces.

So, he’s a good counter for stage control?

And then you run out of mana. It's like people keep forgetting there's an actual cost to use the menu, and misusing it fucks Hero out of their MP, which in turns affect their ability to fight in general.

>"WAHH WAHH MUH GAME HAS RANDOMNESS WAHH WAHH"
reminder that smashfags are low IQ virgins who play smash because they can't play chess or Go

Side-B alone already sets them up to be mid-high tier already. I'm willing to bet they'll be more busted than hero because they dont to rely on RNG to be effective. If the Blockheads say one thing, the opposite will happen, count on that.

you make it sound like the "kit" can be combined at will

cope nigger

Hocus Pocus seems to have more negative effects then positives. It's also rare as shit

chess is dumb and gay

Stay mad, little punk. Your salt only makes me harder.

Attached: 1560812351213.gif (600x557, 170K)

>finally we get a fun dlc character with RNG shenanigans
>competitive babs are losing their shit over their "esport" being killed

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Standard kit alone, since he's a swordie, he'll be mid tier. From that point on, depending on how you use your menu and manage your MP, he would range from mid to high tier.

Even without the randomness, the stuff he has access to does a lot more damage than most other characters and the sheer toolbox of moves he has acces to almost invalidates other characters entire existance.
I honestly dont give two fucks, but if i have to play devils advocate, the randomness is the least lf my concerns. Ive played enough card games to know randomness means nothing in the long run.

No it isn't, virgin

Only when he gets oomph. Psych up also probably works but it only lasts one hit.

You guys make too big of deal out of a few possibilities. Yes, it's possible those things can happen, nobody is claiming itll happen EVERY time. Get over it and cope fags

>>>>twitter combos

jesus fucking christ what spawned shit like this

>>competitive babs
I do'nt think they are real competitive players, though.

HOES MAD

Attached: hoes mad.jpg (3547x1880, 1.28M)

all items and 90% of the stages

Hocus pocus is little more than a taunt for when you're already 2 stocks up and don't mind if you get slowed or Kamakaze'd since you're certain to win anyway and you just want to style and hope for the 1 in a Million of winning off an FS in Comp.

Hocus Pocus is literally YOLO. I'm sure people will use it when they are behind and have nothing to lose, which would cause an insane of butthurt if they get a buff they let's them reverse the situation and snag out a win.

That's the same as setting number of rounds and timelimits on any other fighting game.

He's not even that good

Just reminder to retards on Yea Forums desperate to feel better than others that no one in the competitive scene is that concerned about Hero. All of this shit you see here is just roleplay.

What the fuck is the point of Kaclang?
>Some retard uses it
>I charge an f-smash and wait for it to end for a free kill

Banjo doesn't seem to have any gimmicks so that probably won't happen.

lmao i hope you don't actually believe someone could respect a smelly 300lb adult man that plays in videogame tournaments

Sh-shut up Smash is worse somehow

LMAO not even close

this whole series of drawings was pretty fun.

To be fair, it's not true randomness. The menu choices are obviously weighted. Hero seems to be the ultimate wildcard choice here. He's the goto guy if your main is getting stomped and you need to shake things up.

>What the fuck was sakurai's thought process.
That's easy. His thought process was "I want to make a fun character." He succeeded.

Some of the top players are saying the Hero is broken as shit.

it really isn't

The funny thing is that "real" fighting games like SFV have stage bans too.

>tfw he's fun as fuck to play as

Feels GOOD to be a DQ chad, bros!

Hocus Pocus more often blows me up or puts me to sleep than anything else.

With Monado, it was always the same runes, and they weren’t one shots

You guys boast WAY too much. You act like your victory solely relies on the Hero fucking around with his menu. He's A Tier MINIMUM without his gimmicks, everything else is a bonus for me that I might get

RNG RNG REEEEEE LUCK IT'S RANDOM REEEE LUCK RNG REEEE

the difference of course being that the banned stages in that game are the exception.

Attached: Your (You) milady.gif (640x427, 2.7M)

>*Randomly gets his Final Smash as you recover off stage*

Joker is literally top 5 retard.
If you want a better example, go with K. Rool. Remember when everyone said he would be broken because he can recover from anywhere, has super armor out the ass, two projectiles, a command grab and a counter?
And then the game came out and he settled into absolute bottom tier because he has many, many extremely damning flaws that his gimmicks don't make up for.
Wait until we understand a character before you call them OP.

Probably something to use in the WoL campaign and in 3+ player battles.

If you use it in the air it spikes

>SFV community literally have to disable options just to make the game "competitive"

based anime faggot
SF3 and Tekken 7 are superior anyways

>critical hit
>critical hit sound effects
>DQ4 slime taunt
>all those spells
>based motherfucking Hatchet Man
Man I'm having a blast. I can't imagine being a competitive fag secondary that doesn't play other games.

If Hero gets a stock lead and gets kamikaze or Magic Burst it's pretty much over.

He has really good B and Side B moves, and his smash attacks can crit. Other than that he doesn't seem all that good before Down B shenanigans. His normals are bad aside from maybe his forward air, his grab grab is atrocious, and his stats are mediocre including his air speed/acceleration.

Well duh. In a controlled setting where you can theorycraft all the possible menu combinations and can set it up however you like, of course he's broken. But fighting against someone in a tournament where the enemy is rushing you down at every second? Suddenly, he's not so broken.

I was genuinely afraid he'd look at characters like Ness and Joker and nerf them to oblivion, but after this patch, I'm confident that Smash is gonna keep it's powercreep

Wait, can he actually get a final smash from a Hocus Pocus or something?

>Oh, you’re approaching me?
>Instead of running away, you’re coming right to me?
>I can’t Thwack the nines out of you without getting closer.

Attached: 7f932760-5f5e-46c1-88f6-50c5e6d3092e.jpg (710x647, 203K)

>tfw my main still hasn't been buffed or even altered

Attached: 1466213729812.jpg (480x350, 51K)

>up throw up air is a free combo
>down throw at high percents is a free combo
>nair and fair are good
>get constant spikes with dairy
>specials are amazing
Try again

No, I have no idea where he's getting that from. Maybe he's equating Thwack to a final smash?

You niggers should just off yourselves.

HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD
HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD

Nope

He feels underwhelming at best. Like yeah the RNG can shine, but for the most part he gets camped by anyone with a projectile. He's kind of hard to edge guard, but it might just be I don't really have the timing right yet. He just seems like Link, with Samus's charge beam, none of the other annoying projectiles, and a better recovery. He doesn't really seem to have a good move for approaching other than neutral air and forward air, both of which can be shielded.

>main has been shit since Melee and the only buff he got so far this game is a slight knockback increase on a tilt
T-thanks

>They actually buffed ridley
>Except the ridley buff is to his bair which is already good
>Increasing his power on the Up+B and not just making it less restrictive
>Still no weight increase

Like you dont need to do much sakurai what are these changes

Attached: 51wxh0.gif (489x274, 873K)

I'm just happy I get to play as Eight. Everyone being so upset is just icing on the cake.

Attached: Backpack.png (500x463, 157K)

And, like Link's shield, it doesn't cover his feet or his head, and drops when he's doing anything. Hero isn't going to stand there doing nothing, he's going to either approach you, charge magic, or open his menu.

Only retards were saying K. Rool was broken.
Top competitive players are saying that the Hero is broken as fuck.
youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=xDzZFVG9YD8
twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/1156202712276639746
twitter.com/PG_ESAM/status/1156317466768883715

Ftilt

it really is

OUTPLAYED

Project M for ultimate when?

Hocus Pocus can give you any buff, including Victini, Star, Mushroom, and Rally Flag.

there's some crazy shit in his command menu but I mean, if you let him spend the six thousand years it takes to pull one of those out you deserve to get hit by a Thwack

only real complaint after playing with him a bit last night is that sideB seems too good

Top competitive players said the same exact thing about K. Rool, faggot.
I've wanted K. Rool for many years and I absorbed as much feedback on the character as I could. During pre-release everybody said he would be top tier and "Smash finally has a really good heavy" and shit like that, you fucking revisionist.

>Thwack now insta kills at 100% or some other fucking set %

Why isn't this a fucking thing?

Balance doesn't really fucking matter to Nintendo because SMASH ISN'T A COMPETITIVE GAME. Just because man babies want it to be doesn't mean it is it ever was intended to be.

2 meme reaction videos with Clickbait titles and one joke tweet.
Congrats, your bait is horrible.

It is now

Attached: Windows Movie Maker intro.gif (748x426, 1.38M)

And Sakurai himself confirmed this too.
Smashfags should just kill themselves.

Do you really think a guaranteed instakill would settle any better with these ""people""?

Only for midwit virgins who aren't good enough to play actual competitive games.
We're taking it away from you because the smash scene needs to die

>SMASH ISN'T A COMPETITIVE GAME
Why not?

u mad bro

>mfw DQ will become the new FE
>instead of finally getting popular in the US everyone will shit on it now

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>High level players give their opinion
>user with out citation and who can’t even get past elite smash; “REEEEEEEEE NO THEIR OPINIONS DON’T COUNT COMPETITIVE PLAYERS ARE SAYING THE HERO IS BOTTOM TIER!”

>Only for midwit virgins who aren't good enough to play actual competitive games.
So, you admit it IS a competitive game?
>We're taking it away from you
pfffft

Zero and Leffen are some of the most reactionary Smash players on the planet. I honestly can't see his command menu being reliable. It's slow. The options are randoms so you can't do anything by muscle memory. Only a few attacks can really cover your from above, meaning opponents can either shield or jump over many of them. It's extremely situational from what it seems like right now. The only ridiculous thing is that snooze can catch players in the air.

Yes
A skill that has a random chance to insta kill, even if the skill is near impossible to hit is pure bad design.

Dude to be fair everyone already shits on DQ a lot

I feel you, fellow Kirbybro?

It's not fucking fair bros. This was the perfect chance for the west to get DQ10
Now it's NEVER EVER all over again

Here we go again with the new character panic. You guys need to chill the fuck out and wait for the dust to settle. He's very good but once you learn the moveset everything will be fine
>His charged side B is a vertical line followed by an horizontal one, just react accordingly
>His neutral b is no different from Samus, just stay aware
>His neutral game is laggy as fuck, prey on that
>Down+B is not even an option. Zoom out of stage will never happen and you know it. Using it in the midst of a fight is very difficult, just punish him while he browses
>Thwack never appears and is shitty anyways
>Hocus Pocus fucks him up most of the time

If anything with 4.0 you guys should be happy. Sakurai and his team prove again that they have listened. All we see are buffs across the boards and no nerfs. I, for one, am fucking happy they're going in this direction and Ultimate is looking real good right now. So is Nintendo as a whole. There's not a lot of games that can claim generating this much hype from just a patch. Be happy, Yea Forums, and stop panicking. Aside from Bayo, when has Sakurai ever let you down?

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Honestly, that clip is a good example of how Hero plays. Without his menu, he's clearly mid tier and gets bullied a lot, but good use of the menu allows him to overturn the situation and nets him a win, as it should be.

FEniggers in the US still eat up shit games. DQ has more exposure now, and it's not a completely unknown brand.

>you'd literally have to sit around for ages grinding out how to most efficiently navigate a menu
Sounds like playing a modern jrpg to me

or ROB, Bowser Jr, and Wario

no, just showing off my not funny didn't laugh collection

>Taking it away from you
Taking what exactly?

yeah ;_;

>So, you admit it IS a competitive game?
If you have to change the rules, ban certain moves and stages, eliminate items, etc. to make the game "competitive" then it isn't competitive.
And yes, we're taking it away lmao hoes mad

>hardly ever work
My friend last night closed more than half his Hero games out with a random Thwack or Whack. I would run in to do an attack, see the menu pop up as soon as I attack and then I was dead at 50 before my move even came out.

Fuck off, your character is strong enough as it is. Maybe not on the tourney side but I've seen people go way up in locals with your fucking character. Sakurai sees online results and from what I can tell, Kirby players are doing very well with their broken fsmash and shitty "swallow and spit u out of the stage" strategy. Get good, you're not playing on EVO levels here, you should be doing very well with Kirby against anyone that isn't a pro

>If you have to change the rules, ban certain moves and stages, eliminate items, etc. to make the game "competitive" then it isn't competitive.
Why not?
>And yes, we're taking it away
pfffft

But user, how am I supposed to feel good about my losses online if I don't call the character broken.

>tfw opponent shields on hatchet man

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>Game and watch gets a 9 Judge
That's ok :)
>Hero gets a thwack
NOOOOOO SAKURAI WTF!?

>hoes mad
and opinion discarded
you had your chance

>buffed, semi charged crit breaks shield
>gets a second crit
He was exceptionally lucky. I shielded buffed smash attacks last night and while they got my shield low, they didn't break it.

>A-actually it's not really competitive
user, you openly admitted it was competitive in your previous post

Wait you pick his spells from a menu? So being an actual DQ player gives you an edge? Neat

>Why not?
If you're retarded then I can't help you. If a game can only be competitive when it's gimped, it's not a competitive game.

As stupid as he is, he's actually very fun and very funny to play against. I don't think he'll ruin the meta

It sucks. I can't feel as comfortable with any other character even despite his flaws. I tried to transition to new mains this game after how awful Smash 4 was for him, but I can't quit the pink borb and I don't do as good even with high tiers.
lol

>y-you had your chance
No I didn't retard, only midwit virgins who gimp the game consider it competitive. Retards playing tic tac toe and thinking it's exciting doesn't make tic tac toe a competitive game lmao

>If you're retarded then I can't help you.
You need to actually explain your point of view user, that's how discourse works.
> If a game can only be competitive when it's gimped, it's not a competitive game.
Why? Almost all competitive games out there limit something during official tourneys.

Yes, specially when the commands are the same as in DQ.
So you'll immediately know what the fuck does kaclang or sizzle mean

>no counter argument

>smashfags claim it is a competitive game
>Online Tourney mode comes out
>It's fucking random rules, free for all timed
kek

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fuck everyone else. you right
>be lucas
>juggling Hero as usual
>he has 120%
>I'm around 60%
>"oh great, just one more good hit and I win"
>Hero hits a crit
>I instantly die from the opposite side of the stage
it's kind of annoying. this has happened multiple stocks

>No I didn't
Actually, yes you did.
>Only for midwit virgins who aren't good enough to play actual competitive games.
See this is you openly admitting Smash is a competitive game.

>every single pro Smash player universally agrees that Kirby is bottom 5
>but I, a random user, know better than all of them because I saw a couple tourney players get cheesy kills that don't work on anybody who knows what they're doing

Only in the minds of the man babies. Nintendo and Sakurai have started that it's not.
This
Because the creatures have said it never was intended to be and won't be supported as such. Competitive Smash requires you to turn half of the fucking game off and ignore team play. How is that competitive?

wow, you're not even trying

for the same reason why they spam Yea Forums with roster threads, boo other games for not being melee, and don't shower: autism.

Anuaza sodoo!!

>Because the creatures have said it never was intended to be
Source? Also this doesn't mean that the game isn't competitive.
>How is that competitive?
You haven't explained how it's not.

Nintendo had no word, retard
Sakurai switched his opinion multiple times

lmao the retards really don't get it.
I'll say it again, when you have to gimp it to pretend you're playing a competitive game it's not competitive. Retards getting excited over tic tac toe doesn't mean tic tac toe is actually competitive.

>Also every single pro smash player not too long ago
>"K.Rool is busted guys!"

>I honestly can't see his command menu being reliable. It's slow
This. Any remotely skilled players can easily dodge any magic he throws out simply because it is slow as shit.

Imagine being this retarded

>I'll say it again, when you have to gimp it to pretend you're playing a competitive game it's not competitive.
Why? You haven't actually explained this point of view.
>Retards getting excited over tic tac toe doesn't mean tic tac toe is actually competitive.
Actually that's directly competitive, I'd love to hear your reasoning why tic tac toe isn't.

>Game and watch gets a 9 Judge
That's actually not ok though. It's just that no one actually plays G&W and the few that do, rarely even use the side B due to how shit it is

Meanwhile, hero is the hot new thing that everyone is playing AND his entire kit is pure RNG. So of course people are going berserk about it.
A better example would have been Peach, since people actually complain about the mr saturns.

It's not gimping the game when everything is treated as a preference in the game. Items are not mandatory. Neither are stages. The multiplayer is meant to be played however you want, you nigger.

that's what you get you macrofag

So is Bowser Jr. yet I'm at 5.1mil with him. They might not be viable in the pro-scene but you can do well with them anyways because exactly, you don't play against those pros that play 24/7 and know how to abuse every characters' weakness

That was before the game came out and we could only speculate based on his kit.
Ultimate has been out for over half a year and we've all had more than enough time to deduce that Kirby is a shit character. Just like with K. Rool.

lmao, nobody respects your "competitive" party game.

you unironically deserve the (You)s, godspeed my man

Have you guys idk ever played an actual fighting game?
Or were DPs too hard for you and had to go back to smash?

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Unless the guy picks only attack buffs and speed buffs while leaving a hachet man as a reserve pick in the menu, then you're just asking for a beat down.

this is Yea Forumsintendogaf. of course it's smashfags making these threads.

You're the retard here though.
I bet you're an SFnigger

And I have Kirby at 5mil as well, so what? Elite Smash is full of retards and should never be used as a measurement of a character's capabilities.
>they might not be viable in the pro-scene
So the place where character viability actually matters and you can't consistently cheese out kills? Yeah.

>modern fighting game
>DP
lmao I do more DP in smash by maining Ken.

Smash isn't a game with plummeting player counts so why waste time playing dead games?

these are the same people who complain endlessly about zoners. smash isn't a fighting game and it's mostly played by people who don't know shit about fighting games.

>Why? You haven't actually explained this point of view.
If a game needs to be gimped in order to pretend to be competitive then it isn't built to be an actual competitive game. and i never said only midwit versions play competive games in general, i said midwit virgins play SMASH as though it's competitive.
Actual competitve genius game players play games like chess, go, starcraft, etc. Those are games where you find the 130+ iq guys. Smash is a bunch of 97iq bums who could never be great gameplayers playing a serious game.
The FACT remains that smash was designed as a fun little nintendo game to play with your friends before you went out on a friday night, and a bunch of virgins started to take it too seriously.

this is really the worst case scenario I could see.
But most of his spells would be useless against a skilled opponent.
Maybe snooze would help edgeguard.

Except you can spam G&W attack while Hero RNG requires resources to use. Some of those spells are pretty costly in terms of MP, and remember, Hero needs MP to do an aerial recovery, so you can't waste MP like that.

>this is Yea Forumsintendogaf.
That's precisely why we know it isn't them.

He has a point though. Kirby is basically aerial Little Mac. He can overwhelm and dominate shitters, but once you get to around 4.4M GSP everyone knows how to deal with him and you lose every match outside of ones that heavily favor Kirby (people with such bad recoveries you can gimp them at 10%). I'm guessing if you looked at win percents Kirby would probably be one of the highest, because the vast majority of his matches are low GSP ones against bads, and at high levels people know not to use him. Really he's a poorly designed character. A character that overwhelms people bad at the game, but can be trivially dealt with by experienced players isn't fun because they stand no change of winning at high levels, and at low levels they're frustrating to play against. His suck and cuck and down air should be nerfed, then his air speed and ground options buffed. They need to make it so if you're bad at the game you don't immediately lose to Kirby, but if you're good you can't just zone him or out range him.

I know what franchise I'm putting on my shit list now.
Fuck Hero and fuck the blatant forced shilling that Dragon Quest got.

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user what the fuck is so hard to understand? It means that you can do perfectly well with your characters and that you shouldn't be sad about not getting buffed because you're NOT a pro player. Character viability on the pro scene doesn't matter for us because we're not pros. What I'm telling you is that Kirby is good for anybody else than the pro scene

Is this the salt thread? Alright, here are some actual non-shitpost thoughts on the character after some labbing and a few matches against him.

The only time he ever has the chance to use the menu is when you're offstage and when he's already at advantage. If you see him pull it up in neutral then fucking jump on his ass, there is absolutely no reason to let him use it if you can help it because it's punishable as fuck.

Half the spells on the damn thing are either useless or situational/matchup dependent, so he requires split-second decision making and dexterity for the guy to not accidentally kamikazee himself. The slashes are memes and you're a retard if you get hit with one, the projectiles are alright if accurately used, and lul at Kaclang and Zoom (might as well just recover normally). In most cases Hero wants Oomph/Psyche Up/Acceleratle, with maybe Bounce being good based on matchup and Heal just in general.

His general moveset feels like Link but slightly clunkier. Neutral-b is really good. Side-b is decent, but the charged version is a noob trap. Died a couple times because I wasn't used to Up-b charging, but it's an okay recovery overall, can be gimped if you know what you're doing. Aerials have a fair amount of landing lag, Nair is a worse Ike Nair, and his up smash has a crappy hitbox so you aren't using it for anything but anti-air. The crit thing is actually ridiculous whenever it pops since it can steal stocks, but his f-smash isn't stupidly fast so it's mostly gonna hit you off reads, not to mention the endlag.

Overall Hero is probably high-tier at the very least just because of how versatile he is alongside having a good moveset in general, but this "RNG OP NO WEAKNESSES" bullshit needs to stop. Half the time you can just walk up on him and beat his ass for trying.

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Just saying, a skilled Hero player wouldn't actually rely on RNG. He would pick the safe options and cycle through the menu to leave good options as a reserve move.

Kirby is far from a pubstomper, user. Even the worst players still demand respect from Kirby players if they have a sword that can throw around huge disjoints.

>If a game needs to be gimped in order to pretend to be competitive then it isn't built to be an actual competitive game.
But people can still be competitive with it. This is just such a silly point of view, it's basically saying that "you can't play your game your way, you have to play it mine."
This is epecially true when Sakurai has said that the point of Smash is to play it how you want.
>Smash is a bunch of 97iq bums who could never be great gameplayers playing a serious game.
Oh you're just shitposting, my bad

>Combo
>Smash Ultimate
???

Because it's a nintendo game.
Nintendo is for kids, not adults.

Stop being positive user this thread is all about crying about the new character being broken. Everything has to be shit on Yea Forums, nothing positive can be said, is that very clear young man? You can go right back to rebbit if you want to share your cringe non-contrarian opinions

you smashfags are truly pathetic. if you don't want to get called out for spamming the board, then stop spamming the board.

>Because I said so, that's why

>tfw another series with a somewhat decent fanbase is about to be killed by smelly tourneyfags again

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>Nintendo is for kids
So are most competitive games
Dota
SF
Tekken
Some esports shooter

They're all for kids

:(

>boot up Tekken
>1v1 competitive fighting is the main mode and the way you're supposed to play it
>Shit like Bowling and Voleyball is just a distraction to fuck around with friends

>Boot up Smash
>Need to go to rules, turn from timed to stock, turn off all items, restrict stage hazards, make a list of ten (10) allowed stages out of a hundred, turn on team attack, play only 1v1 or 2v2, nothing else allowed
>NOW you can play """competitively"""
Speaks for itself

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I don't really think the RNG is the problem, more the actual speed of the menu really hindering that character.

If smash was actually trying to be competitive, they'd ban nothing and allow players to play in the whole game. No item bans, no character bans, no stage bans, no moveset bans (looking at you, wobbling ban).
But it's not, you guys aren't even playing the game. You YOURSELVES admit that the game isn't "competitive" so it needs to change and be restricted and gimped to pretend to be competitive. The fact that so many people are crying about a character with RNG and saying it ruins the integrity of the game proves that smash isn't actually competitive.
literally retarded.

Dragon Quest was never good.
It deserves the shitting it's about to get.

No, those are for mature and teenage gamers. The ESRB says so.

No?

THIS
fucking smashfags are retarded
>"b-but we are allowed to choose our gameplay! that changes the fact that smash is a party game!"

Tinkering around with options isn't just a smash thing.
Some other games which have competitive scenes can only be played in certain ways.

I feel like he lacks the same disjoints a lot of other sword fighters rely so much on. His menu is pretty situational, and like you said, his best special is his neutral B. I'm not too sure if he's high tier, but I guess it'll take time for players to really get a grasp of his playstyle.

Game explains video of all the Hocus Pocus effects don’t have a rally flag or the victims buff, I have no idea where you’re getting this from.

Kirby definitely has bad matchups, even at lower levels, but a lot of those sword users also have bad recoveries. It doesn't really matter if Lucina gets you to 9% or 90% when you get gimp her the first time she's off the ledge. I'm talking about people that occasionally SD because they pressed the wrong button or fast fell when they didn't mean to; that level of player.

This, I've been playing Hero and against Hero, and he isn't hard to deal with.

>:

>Game lets you change options
>Change options to play the way you want
>B-BUT NO YOU CAN'T DO THATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

>If smash was actually trying to be competitive, they'd ban nothing and allow players to play in the whole game.
Why? I don't even understand your point of view here. Plenty of fighting games have restricted stages or characters for tournaments.
>You YOURSELVES admit that the game isn't "competitive"
Nobody admitted this, in fact the opposite is being argued.
>The fact that so many people are crying about a character with RNG and saying it ruins the integrity of the game proves that smash isn't actually competitive.
How does that prove it isn't competitive?
Seriously, these posts always boil down to "well, in my opinion it's NOT competitive", it's fucking dumb

So what makes Dragon Quest special? Looks like any other JRPG I've seen.

it's official: you faggots have cried about every single character in the game.

>when you land that Ridley down b on a menu surfing Hero

the fact it's old, just like the dead body in my garage

>Hero Kirby is the only kirby hat not to use the default alt and instead uses edrick's crown thing an sword and shield

Sakurai REALLY wanted him to be the default and not 17/trunks.

It is any other JRPG you've seen, that's the appeal.

Mostly because it was THE JRPG. It wrote the book on it and built the whole genre, like what Mario did for platforming and Zelda did for action-adventuring in 2D and 3D space, or what Wolfenstein and Doom did for FPS.

SPECTATE IS TOO FUCKING HARD!
ITS LITERALLY ALL OR NOTHING, AND YOU EARN SUCH A SHIT AMOUNT FOR GUESSING CORRECTLY!

FIX THIS SHIT!!!!

I haven't played this since launch.
Couldn't find a main at all back then so I never stuck around.
Hero is pretty fun.

It’s THE jrpg. Came before just about all of them and others usually borrow elements originating from DQ

Nothing. The fact that it's a by-the-books JRPG is the appeal in itself. Probably why it doesn't do well in the west.

>Why? I don't even understand your point of view here. Plenty of fighting games have restricted stages or characters for tournaments.
And none of them are competitive.
Reminder that smash isn't a fighting game.
>Nobody admitted this, in fact the opposite is being argued.
Then players wouldn't turn items off or ban certain stages during tournaments.
"I'm the best in smash but only when we ban half the game!"
Bunch of retards

Objectively based
Fact of the matter is that Meleefags complain about characters and mechanics being broken when they're already bending the game far out of shape to force it into the mold they've designed to be "fair and balanced."

Newer Smash games have taken steps to get closer to the competitive scene and all, but it's still not a traditional fighter nor will it ever be. The reason Smash isn't taken seriously, though, is because of the community acting like a bunch of entitled faggots more than the game itself.

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It depends. If you stand still and carefully look through it, then yeah, you're fucked. If you quickly flick open the menu and jump away for mobility while quickly scanning the half-a-second full menu popup to see if the move you want is in there, and then choosing/shielding it when you land, that's fine. How players deal with the menu situation will be the line that splits between the RNG/button mashers types versus the actual pros.

Slow down user, I'm saying that Kirby is strong enough, not overpowered

>Good move for approaching
I haven’t played him enough to know why but I haven’t had a problem approaching yet. The shield that kills projectiles helps in that regard

>Source: My ass

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Dragon Quest 9 and Dragon Quest Monsters will always have a place in my heart. Get some taste, nigger.

You know they did used to play with everything, right? Those stages were tested and exploited to high heaven. They got banned for the viewers' sake.
>no character bans
Jesus you people are always so proud to be completely ignorant. There have never been any widespread characters bans.

Well any character will destroy somebody at that skill level, not just Kirby. Getting d-aired to your doom is probably no more frustrating than eating K. Rool's down-smash or getting rested by Jiggs.
At that level of discrepancy between player skill, character choice is hardly a factor.

Hocus Pocus is two layers of RNG
It's as much of a risk for the user as it is rare to even see the move

>Tfw killing with a full powered Magic Burst
Feels so fucking good. Hero is fun as fuck and all of you cry babies aren't going to change that.

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Can yoy blame him? It's the typical headgear you'd think a 90's mythical jrpg hero use. Well that or a horned helm.

>Dragon Quest was never good
>t. someone who has never played III, V or IX
Even the games between those are worth a single playthrough
Haven't touched XI, waiting for XI S

>Melee
>Bending it far out of shape

The closest we've ever gotten to a character ban is Spain thinking of banning Bayo during 4, and I think some people considered banning MK during brawl.

youtube.com/watch?v=a_qeZAJBxFk&t=11s

Lies and slander. It also cant give you kamikzare like people have said.

Can we talk about the fact Olimar got fucking buffed of all characters

>Mostly because it was THE JRPG. It wrote the book on it and built the whole genre, like what Mario did for platforming and Zelda did for action-adventuring in 2D and 3D space, or what Wolfenstein and Doom did for FPS.
False.

Pretty much every thing people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, SMT and DQ itself was copied from Ultima and Wizardry: the turn-based party-based combat system right down to specific spells and classes/jobs, the overworld, even the tradition of getting an airship, heck, even specific game concepts like alignment and demon negotiation in SMT, or the distinction between white/black/red mages in Final Fantasy.

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>gets to instagib characters at high percentages via "glory kill"

The salt will be glorious.

>And none of them are competitive.
Still not explaining that point of view.
>well, in my opinion it's NOT competitive
Oh, ok.
>Reminder that smash isn't a fighting game.
And you'll never give a satisfactory explanation as to why.
>Then players wouldn't turn items off or ban certain stages during tournaments.
This doesn't make any sense. Also other fighting games give restrictions during tourneys too
Seriously, these posts are getting dumber as time goes on

How so?

at least you're not kirby

I never understood fags like this. You do know those rules are rules collectively chosen by the Smash community right? There's nothing stopping you from making a competitive scene with all items and all stages. Good luck keeping it alive though.

It's already switched over to 1v1 no items omega now.
2:30 times so it's nothing but a sudden death simulator. Fuck Sakurai.

>Pretty much every thing people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, SMT and DQ itself was copied from Ultima and Wizardry
This is bullshit, mostly because people don't remember anything Ultima or Wizardry did. There were platforming games before Mario, but people call Mario the pioneer because it's what people actually remember.

This.

Also hero, thanks for the free charges

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Wasn't MK actually banned in Brawl for sometime?

Purple pikmin gets thrown faster and distance increased on smashes

I think he just needs an overall damage boost. He can juggle a lot sure, but I can juggle with plenty of other characters that do way more damage from my opponent making a simple mistake.

Really is the bread and butter of JRPGs. Might seem like something bad to some, but DQ never tries anything new and sticks to the basics. You grind, you buy the next set of gear and you keep on going. It is one of those games like the Musous that are just really fun to play while doing other things. It can be tedious if you're only doing that, so I'd recommend it on Switch but never on PS4

This
If anything, the character is very high skill floor to be half decent.
I'm curious what sort of mind-games people will play with the command menu
>use command menu
>Hover over options to trick enemy into approaching or leaving
>either cancel out when they distance themselves or switch to an attack when they approach

>chain attacks
>command menu
sounds like bayodrick to me

"I'm the best smash player but only when playing a gimped version of the game with half of the features"
imagine a chess or poker tournament banning moves or changing rules to make the game "more competitive". Fucking smash retards are literally sub 100 iq

Oh fug. Seriously?
>t. Olimar main
I mean, that’s not gonna help against someone like Hero wearing Bounce, but still

Ultimate's balance honestly isn't that bad for the roster size. It could have been way worse.

>This is bullshit, mostly because people don't remember anything Ultima or Wizardry did.
Most people in the west didn't even know what DQ was either until a few years bcause the series was super niche and unknown compared to FF, so by your logic DQ shouldn't count as "THE JRPG".

What does popularity have to do with anything? We are talking about game influence.

>imagine a chess or poker tournament banning moves or changing rules to make the game "more competitive".
Good thing Smash is fundamentally a completely different game than chess or poker at every level and so this analogy makes no sense.
>in my opinion, it's not competitive!
ok

>And no nerfs
Wrong.

Given how we have around 10+ different characters winning tournaments, it's really a lot more balanced than people give it credit for.

>lucina inkling wolf and joker untouched
>kirby not buffed at all
>mac gets a nerf of all things

>Most people in the west didn't even know what DQ was either
Bullshit, whenever Final Fantasy started picking up traction I heard about Dragon Quest all the time. It was never pushed as hard as FF, but they certainly tried to make DQ work too

>No items
>Some characters now have a clear advantage over others in a competitive space without the items the game was designed in mind with
>Optimal play consists of abusing the physics system, using glitches, and utilizing controllers with an "official" factory defect that allows for easier performance of """tech"""
>Stages are banned because, once again, without items to incentivize movement camping is an actual strategy because characters, while having universal mechanics, are different enough that the ability to jump 'this high' or run 'this fast' makes the stage itself broken and unsuitable for comp play
Bending it far out of shape. End of Discussion.

"I'm the best smash player in the world but only when we take away over 50% of the game!"
Its like when boxers say they're the best fighters on the planet when in reality they get btfo by mma fighters

how do people have such high GSP?
im trying my best and barely make it to 100K GSP

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>Hero RNG actually protects him from being OP rather than making him OP
I see clearly now

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>Just ban items and broken ass stage, AFTER play testing them on higher levels of play
>Game lets you do this
>THEY ARE BENDING SO MUCH OF THE INTENTIONAL DESIGN OF THE GAME THEY CAN’T COMPLAIN ABOUT OBJECTIVELY BROKEN MECHANICS
Casual Elitist genocide when?

>RPGs
what
and Melee has plenty of rng you dumb fuck

Hero is not a high or top tier threat and yet I eagerly await the bullshit wins they'll pull off in the coming weeks

You're right, he'd have infinite air combos like bayo did and some nonsense magic shit.

>Banjo & Kazooie will probably have a crazy gimmick, too
>It will almost certainly be collecting ammo for their moves
>You will probably start with 0 Gold Feathers and 0 Eggs/Grenade Eggs
>You will probably have to wait for them to spawn in on the stage
>Enemies will know exactly where you want to go and where to deny you access from
>Wonder Wing, Egg Shot, Breegull Blaster, and Grenade Egg will probably not be strong enough to warrant these gimmicks
I hope i'm completely wrong. Hell, even if I'm right, i'll still never play anyone else on the roster again, unless Swordfighter gets a Mumbo Jumbo outfit.

Imagine a chess match where one of the players randomly gets a piece that can just instantly kill the other person’s queen or a poker match where only one random person gets to see half of the every other person’s cards

shhh

How did mac get nerfed?

You play lucina and cant get past 100k? Jesus christ you suck

Hero is fun as fuck in spirit battles. Slap Marx on him and everything dies

That is not the point. The point is that Smash is not an inherently competitive game, nor will it ever be. Even with steps taken towards catering to that side of things, it simply cannot 100% be what compfags ideally want it to be because people will gravitate towards broken mechanics regardless of how many things you ban until you start banning characters outright.

I want to see someone win a tourney with Thwack

>"There being such a thing as "broken mechanics" in the first place
the so called 'casuals' are much more reasonable than the so called 'competitive' gimps

no im playing Kirby, the Lucina was just for attention

His Up-smash needs a buff. This problem has existed since Sm4sh and Hackurai still won't fix it.

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>WAAAAAAAH I AM LITERALLY SO BAD AT THE GAME THAT RNG RUINS IT!
If you aren't good enough to deal with randomness then you need to git gud, not joking

>No items
I can toggle them off so the game was intended to be able to be played without items
>Some characters have a clear advantage
That's every single game
>Optimal play consists of abusing the physics system
If it was in the game then I can abuse it however I want if it improves the competitive experience. There's tons of tech in other games, particularly fighting games, that was an accident.
>Stages are banned because, once again, without items to incentivize movement camping is an actual strategy because characters, , while having universal mechanics, are different enough that the ability to jump 'this high' or run 'this fast' makes the stage itself broken and unsuitable for comp play
Items don't incentivize movement because items are rng and randomly spawning. Once again, characters are different because they were designed differently. I guess games are broken because some characters are faster than others. Finally, if I can choose the stages and whether or not to have items on then I can play any way I want and it doesn't matter.

different chess and poker tournaments actually do have different rulesets.

Leo said hes not going to play Hero so we won't be seeing him win any major tournaments any time soon.

you have cool custom stages, Sakurai-sama.

How embarrassing

Some thing where jab 3 would give you less endlag is gone. Minor or not its still a nerf

this

>>"There being such a thing as "broken mechanics" in the first place
Oh, so you DON’T know what you are talking about at all then? Good to know you will never beat any top players, with or without items on.

Joker is top 5 you scrublord. Just because you lose to Ganons online while using him doesn't mean he isn't OP.

>Marx
>Azura
>Ultimate Chimera

never, because 4xM was a flop, Smash 2 died like a bitch, and nobody cares about Project Plus
a Project M type of mod Smash 64 us going to happen after Smash Remix is complete

>Its like when boxers say they're the best fighters on the planet when in reality they get btfo by mma fighters
Good thing Smash is fundamentally a completely different than boxing or mma at every level and so this analogy makes no sense.
>in my opinion, it's not competitive!
ok

Yes it fucking can you lying nigger
I lost 5 games embarrassingly like that

Does he think hero sucks or something?

>Use projectiles!
>f.tilts your spam
>invalidates your edgeguard autism with zoom
>catch you slipping when you get too frustrated with your projectiles being f.tilted
>run into a random f.smash
>it crits

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There will always be top characters dumbass.

why the fuck would I want to be good at a midwit virgin game like smash?
I want to hurt the smash community and ruin their soiboi pseduo competitive game, I genuinely don't care about playing smash. I don't even own a switch.

but Hero is boomer too
look at the havoc he's making

>I'm being retarded, on purpose!
Cool

>I've no Idea what I'm talking about

And fighting games weren't truly competitive until someone accidentally discovered combos. They were just considered casual fun. If you think they're inherently competitive even in that state then something like Mario Kart would be competitive as well, and so would Smash. Well, those games are competitive, even at their most imbalanced, it's a fucking competition.

Fighting games' base mechanics are different, yeah, but the ability to set up match rules is a part of Smash's mechanics, so how do one genre's mechanics count but Smash's don't? The real question is if Smash works in a more neutralized playing field, and 15 or so years of material you've watched 0 minutes of as indicated by your lack of knowledge on "character bans" tells us yes, it does.

Whether or not Smash is a real fighting game has no bearing on its competitiveness. Smash gives you options to play how you want, there is no invalid way to play. The elitism in this argument is always found on the anti-competitive side. Rarely is it ever stated that casual smash isn't fun.

>One side is fine with both sides existing while the other thinks the opposite side is retarded and shouldn't exist for using options the game gives them
Gee I wonder which one is being a bit unreasonable.

Characters in other fighting games, while some may be better or have more options that others, are still all balanced around a universal system that allows for low-tier characters to be usable and prevent high-tier characters from being broken, whereas in Smash it falls to the community to decide whether "JIGGLYPUFF WOBBLED ME WTF BROS" is legal because the game is already being forced into an artificial mold that has been designed by a community with balance in mind that can never be achieved simply because it would require a complete retooling of the game's mechanics.

Smash isn't inherently a competitive fighting game, nor will it ever be.

>Smashfags get riled at the mention that their platform brawler isn't and will never be a fighting game in the traditional sense

Smash isn't and will never be a fighting game. Discussion over.

>Smash isn't inherently competitive
Any game can be competitive, especially one where you can change the ruleset
Also all the characters in Smash are balanced around a universal physics system. Even with items there would be some better characters because they are faster and get to the items. It doesn't matter what "mold" you push the game into, the result will still be some characters are worse/better than others.
>JIGGLYPUFF WOBBLED ME WTF BROS
You don't play the game so you are speaking out of your ass

>I genuinely don't care about playing smash. I don't even own a switch.
Yet here you are in this thread. Where did your life go oh so wrong?

he's high tier at best. tweek says he's overrated

He thinks hes boring compared to playing Joker. Makes sense considering Leo likes playing fast sword characters and Hero is kinda sluggish

>Admitting you actually do not know what you are talking about
>After being so vehemently sure that pros are just banning things to give themselves an advantage

Calling out smashfags isn't retarded.
stay buttmad that a character with RNG ruins the integrity of a game that you don't even play fully.

Makes sense, not like he’s missing out since joker got no real nerfs anyways

>be me
>playing a little online last night
>shit all over a few Heroes
>get fucked by a few others
>sleepyaf
>want to see how Little Mac does online
>Erdrick in Magicant Battlefield
>Knock his ass out
>nigga can't even handle this speed
>he's off the stage
>Zoom appears and uses it
>this repeats literally 4 more times in a fucking row
>I fsmash a stock off him
>nigga comes back with a kaclang
>youmotherfucker.jpg
>I charge a fsmash tilted down
>hit him fully charged
>he tbags when he lands
>I fucking smash juggle him until his stock is gone
>He takes a stock off of me
>who cares, I fucking win
fuck Hero and fuck niggers

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Imagine playing a game of chess where random pieces appear on the board that can help you or your opponent win, or different sized boards altogether. You've been arguing like a retard for over an hour. Let go already.

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>Smash isn't inherently a competitive fighting game, nor will it ever be.
I think people have been proving over and over that it is completely wrong, honestly the reaching you're doing to get to this conclusion is kinda sad

Caring deeply about a game you don't ever intend to play is the very definition of retarded, user

He's probably done watching Netflix and has nothing else to do.

ultima-err magic burst is legit stupid though near the ledge, you're basically fucked more often than not if you're try recovering against it

Love this bait

>Joker gets arsene
>Make an absolute power move and just not do anything
Use it to waste people's time with buffs that go away eventually

Hero feels like he has no buttons to press like Lucina or wolf, i feel like someone like fox will body him

I think that if the 'competitive' side wants to actually be the side that represents itself as the best players, it HAS to play the entire game. Saying certain mechanics are "broken" doesn't make sense, "broken mechanics" is just "powerful strategies that I don't like". Trying to restrict randomness is weak, banning items because "They can change the tide of the fight!" only shows you can't play.
The casual side is ironically more of an accurate representation of what good gameplay looks like.

See but they can just punish it with a smash attack as soon as you get out of Kaclang. Not like you can do anything.

>Tourney mode
>2 stock
>2:30

I get they're trying to move the bracket along but Jesus fucking christ. 2/3rds of my matches are me sitting at low percent, my opponent sitting at high percent, then watching as my opponent runs away for dear life as soon as the announcer says "5!" in an attempt to cheese in Sudden Death.

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This. Anyone who argues otherwise is incredibly shortsighted

The fuck do people get hit by this shit?

Yes, he indeed struggles against rushdown characters.

I've been able to roll away or block quite a few times. But using it at high percents probably isn't a good idea. And just never ever use it against another hero

>PLS WATCH MY BIDEO (PS GIB BIDDY BUFFS)

What's sad is the lengths you all go to in order to justify this platform brawler as being a legitimate fighting game. It is a party game that has the option for you to make it more generally """balanced""" for the sake of less RNG, but that's all. It's like if Mario Party had a "less RNG" option that you could turn on and people used that and began having legitimate tournaments with it.

Still not a competitive fighting game, nor will it ever be.

>Its like when boxers say they're the best fighters on the planet when in reality they get btfo by mma fighters
Firstly, very rarely will a boxer claim that unless they’re just an arrogant fool. Secondly, Boxing isn’t as much of a martial art, but a sport.

And considering half of the top tier characters in this game are rushdown orietned, i feel like he will struggle to do well at the top level.

IF that were the rules of chess, then you'd have to adapt a strategy around those rules to consider yourself a "serious competitive player who is the best in the world".

>old ass disney vhs feature presenation clip
i spotted you mouseshill

I dunno. I main Corrin and last night was the first time I came away from a long time of playing feeling like my losses were deserved and my victories against worse players were as easy as they should have been. Probably the first time since launch I had fun playing quickplay.
Maybe that's cause everyone but campy faggots move on to playing other games after a week or two.

Even if hero is bullshit, it's fun bullshit lol.

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Im wondering if even Little Mac could do well against him?

he'd be insanely broken if he could use Sizz on command, so just imagine how dumb he'd be if he could use Snooze or Kaboom on command.

>Still not a competitive fighting game, nor will it ever be.
People have been proving over and over that it is, and the fact that you're too much of a pussy to reply to those posts says a lot about you.

I don't have the DLC. Just played a game against Hero. Was pretty fun. The I played a game against G&W and he won because he pulled out a 9 at the perfect time. Leffen can suck every testicle int he world.

What an arbitrary definition of competitive you have if that doesn't fit it. Golly, glad I'm not this insecure

>Still not a competitive fighting game, nor will it ever be.

Isn't smash at evo?

And Joker is one of them. Retard said
>Remember when people said Joker was OP
Yes, I do. People are saying it right now. And they're correct.

You can play competitively on any ruleset, the other ones are just more fun to play than to watch. By having these options, smash is both fun for casual and competitive players.

TH-that doesn't mean anything!
MOOOODS

>thread turned fr "Hero is broken" to the typical "Smash is a fighting game!" discussion
Why are smash fags always trying to be included in the fighting game realm? Smash is a platform brawler. Nothing will ever change that you autists.

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Truly a yikes my man. I hope for your own sake this isn’t your genuine opinion because it makes you look like a fool

Every corrin main probably shits on this statement, but was her recovery really in need of a buff like it got? Bair i feel like makes up for the up bs distance next to how hard it is for characters to hit her out of up b

Hey user, sorry everyone's calling you retarded for your dumb point of view you can't properly explain

Still. Not. A. Competitive. Fighting. Game.

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>samus maining homosexual

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The fact that this discussion is happening at all proves the game isn't meant to be competitive. What a joke.

What do I need to explain? How it's a platform brawler?? You're on a platform and you knock the other people off of it, the fuck kind of question is that.
Your new DLC character is broken fun by the way

>>mfw DQ will become the new FE
really?
because Three Houses is doing great financially and receptionally
Byleth fucking when?

If those were the rules of chess, it wouldn’t be taken as a serious game unless people agreed to remove that element. Sounds familiar.

>"y-yikes"
No, retard, if you can't play the whole game and do well you aren't a good player of the game.
"T-this character has randomness that ruins the integrity of muh game!!"
you're a weak player and a bitch
I'm not the same guy as that guy, fucking moron. There are multiple people shitting on you smashfags itt

So what I really hate about this debate is that it always goes like this
>Smash isn't competitive
>[refutation]
>Competitive players don't play the real Smash
or
>Competitive players don't play the real Smash
>[refutation]
>Smash isn't competitive
Same fucking circle over and over. Competitive players did play with items and different stages. The optimized ways of playing with those things made things unsatisfying for everyone. The winner, the loser, and the viewer. Nobody wanted to watch that competition because after only a few matches no one was proving anything to anyone.

>Smash isn't a fighting ga- Oh my god...OH MY FUCKING GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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Based Chadrick dropping the truth bomb

>side b's in his general direction
Nah

>What do I need to explain?
How it's not a fighting game. You know, the whole point of your post.

>he's still posting
If you're so sure of that, why do you keep trying so hard to convince people? No one is going to change their mind about the game, especially from someone who doesn't even play the game. Will you try to discredit a game like Mortal Kombat because you can customize some moves although not every move is tournament legal? Now you'll say something like
>implying Mortal Kombat is good

>I'm not the same guy as that guy, fucking moron.
That other guy already responded, so you're a real idiot.

I’m just looking forward to all the magical bullshit people will pull off at tourneys from now on.

yes, it would mean that chess isn't a competitive game, like smash isnt

>counters through it

By a bunch of autists, maybe. Certainly not by the people making the game, which has been proven multiple times.

>If I make up my own definition of a competitive game, then Smash isn't one!
user I know you're being retarded on purpose but stop it

Not really. I was playing one last night and all I had to do was outcamp him with neutral and side b. Sure if he gets in it hurts but Hero definitely has the advantage.

>N-NOOOO STOP BLOWING MY 20-YEAR-OLD MEME "ARGUMENT" OUT
Don't worry, FGCuck, smashchads will continue to single-handedly fund your dead genre's events every year

Smashfags would complain and shit up the venue otherwise, just look at the amount of salt Melee not being there caused. There is no other community that tries so hard to be a part of the FGC yet at the same time throws fits like a bunch of manchildren so consistently and predictably like say, for instance, launching into full angry "NO I'M NOT MAD SHUT UP YOU'RE WRONG I HAVE FACTS" tirades against some literally whos they will never meet nor hear from ever again about why they should take their game just as seriously as the other games.

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>keeps pressing side b
You aren't invincible forever you fuck

>"y-you didn't refresh the page so you're retarded"
more evidence that smashfags are sub100 iq

It's hard to say yet. I think he's gonna be really bad in tournaments though. One kicked my ass on Sakuzu castle because he had his own platform to camp on and cycle through commands. Then we did a Battlefield and Mario Kart 8 and I steamrolled him.
However, this can also be chalked up do being a brand new character of course and he's thinking more about what each ability does instead of choosing quickly.

>mac using counter
Lol, don't do that.

>No one is going to change their mind about the game
Then why do you all keep trying to argue that Smash is a competitive fighting game when the objective truth is that it isn't?

Get your eyes checked because I just explained why it's A and not B but if I must continue, so be it
>No health bar
>No "corner" per say from a 2D perspective
>Timeout literally nullifies your advantage with Sudden Death
>2D platforms. Do I really need to say more?

I don't know about you all but I always find these shitflinging arguments to be infinitely amusing

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It's very easy for skilled players to hit her out of up B if they have a spike that goes directly below them. The head isn't protected at all.
Back air does help a lot but not nearly enough to be comparable to a lot of other characters in the game. With how many other weakness Corrin has, and how strong they are, he really doesn't need to have a bad recovery on top of it.
Also before you could barely go off stage at all, which really gimped your killing power because a lot of it is tied to back airing people while off stage. So this buff indirectly raised his killing power which he really needed.
Also I haven't tested it but I think this enables a fun interaction where you can jump off the lower platforms of battlefield to down air on a recovering enemy then jump and up B back up.

All these buffs were super necessary, before this Corrin was stiff and easily punishable without being very rewarding. Now he feels on par with every other character in the game.

But user, you tried to claim that you were the original poster when you weren't.
Sorry you got called out, faggot.

I recognized that Ultimate was kuso within two days of getting it. I'm glad everyone else agrees now

>"no one wanted to play the real game because it was boring. This means gimped smash is actually competitive!"
smashfags, everyone.

>Get your eyes checked because I just explained why it's A and not B but if I must continue, so be it
Nothing you listed is a requirement for a fighting game, so how does any of this mean Smash isn't a fighting game
>I'm making up my own definitions of fighting games
Oh well, no wonder this is retarded

You have literally no idea what's even going on right now. You are being argued with by multiple guys who are BTFOing "competitive" smash.

Platform brawler is a sub genre of Fighting Game. Fighting Game is a blanket term for "game where players fight." This includes 2D fighters (Street Fighter), 3D fighters (Soulcalibur), and Platform Fighters (Smash).

I just find it fun because it's very clearly someone with a stick up their ass about Smash arguing... nothing. The competitive argument is especially funny because, by the definition of the word, of course it is. People coming up with their own complicated definitions of words to win internet arguments amuses me.

>no u

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>You have literally no idea what's even going on right now.
No, that's you
>You are being argued with by multiple guys who are BTFOing "competitive" smash.
Seems like it's the complete opposite, people are completely reaming those who are arguing against Smash being competitive. It's kinda sad.

>this desperate headcanon
Kek, FGCucks have shit on Smashfags for 20 years and Smashfags have told them to fuck off for 20 years, and in the last decade or so, FGCucks have realized that Smash is never going anywhere since it is by far the most popular and lucrative event every year at EVO, and they have been seething about it ever since.
Remember, success breeds jealousy!

because it's not competitive and it's not a fighting game. This triggers smash autists so much, but that isn't going to change the truth.

>can't play the whole game and do well
Except I can. A good player will still tend to mop the floor with a bad player, and I enjoy the beat downs that people with items on in Quickplay receive. The problem with items is that when it comes to true tournament competitive gameplay items add *too much* RNG to the game. Here’s the most concise scenario I can provide:
Two twin players are exactly the same skill level in any way, and even think alike in terms of decision making. If you dropped a pokeball in front of each at the exact moment, one could get a goldeen, exeggutor, or something, while the other pulls a legendary that will nearly instakill the other player. The power differential is too great, and items are not created with balance in mind, nor their spawn behavior.
>"T-this character has randomness that ruins the integrity of muh game
I never said that, and so far have enjoyed the stupid stuff that happens when Hero is around. Probably the only swordfighter I’ve truly enjoyed playing.

>because it's not competitive and it's not a fighting game.
>In my opinion, it isn't a competitive game!
Maybe if you gave any actual reasons people would listen to you

Let me add on for you there and expand upon your points friend

>Platforms force stages to be banned outright because of the fact that half the cast can shit on the other half just by having a better jump
>Ideally Stamina would be the best mode for a competitive game, but Percentage is used because having a definitive end-state laid out in advance makes people feel bad and removes the chance for "SICK COMEBACKS HE WAS AT LIKE 200 BRO"
>Strategies like gimping are commonplace to try and cheese out wins instead of fighting the match normally like in literally any actual fighting game where the only cheese is a time-out, if that
>Combos are ez-mode and mostly freeform based upon you predicting your opponent's movements while rarely being completely unreactable on the opponent's side since they can always attempt to DI or escape

When you get right down to it, Smash is, at best, a fighter with training wheels because people don't like getting combo'd in the corner for 20 straight seconds in actual fighters

Weird cope but okay

gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77903846
OH NONONONONONONONONONONO!
Gamefaqs doesn't want Hero to be nerfed.

>am gay
>main samus
>had fun shitting on heros because they open the menu or sit there charging magic, leaving themselves open to THE PACKAGE

You can't find one 2D fighting game that doesn't follow this basic template.
See, I like you, I respect this answer. But some of you will literally argue that Smash is the same as Street Fighter

No one said that those things were boring in their casual sphere. I absolutely love meter and I'm happy they adjusted it in the latest patch. I also think Gamer is one of the best stages in Smash's history. It's just that the absolute peak of play with those things that you're looking for was already achieved, and yeah it turned out to be pretty boring. So if you want every game to come down to waiting for Peach/Daisy to use her full screen unblockable FS then start your own scene and see how long people want to play that when winning is the top priority.

Only thing I'd say is too strong with Hero is that his mana system is too forgiving, to the point its almost a non-factor.

He has good range and great meaty hitboxes. Landing hits on an opponent isn't exactly a struggle. The amount of mana it refunds is too rewarding.

It's fine he has an arsenal of crazy good shit, just make it to where it actually feels like you're managing a limited resource.

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Watch any Nintendo hosted smash tourney and then come back and try to argue that items are perfectly viable. Even the announcers have to force themselves to be excited about some “epic kill” via final smash or item.

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What's Hero's weight? Seems like he dies pretty easy honestly, a Mewtwo claw from center stage is killing him at around 120%

>Melee got booted the fuck out literally this year despite "MUH BRINGING THE VIEWS" posting because it was too much of a fucking hassle to deal with
Yeah you keep telling yourself that, Meleefags have Ultimate or nothing now

And smash being at evo triggers fgcucks that they have to go into every thread about a game they hate reminding everyone its not a fighting game despite being at evo.

>You can't find one 2D fighting game that doesn't follow this basic template.
But you can find plenty of 3D ones that don't follow this template, how retarded are you?

>"the best poker players in the world aren't the best because sometimes you can pull a flush when the other guy pulls a two pair!"

I think it's time we send a message that Robin is just a horribly designed character because even the other resource-based zoner can use his tools without fear of a cooldown.

Gamexplain has effects missing and they also suck a bag of dicks. I've seen a Kamikazee Hocus Pocus first-hand, and it happened in Nairo's stream so it's possible that a few ultra-rare effects exist

He feels like he's either average or slightly below average weight, Acceleratle and Oomph both make him easier to kill too

I don't play fighting games. I don't even play video games. I practice judo and jiu jitsu and muay thai, and I shitpost on many different boards about anything

Should we ban fighting games with ring outs now? Having ways to end matches early with smart play is a bad thing?

Are you a brainlet? I specifically mentioned 2D didn't I?

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Who mentioned Meleefags?
We were talking about Smashfags.
Melee got booted because it's a solved game that nobody cares about and Jigglypuff made every set last 8 minutes.

That's why I called you retarded, there's also 3D fighters. Plus you didn't mention that in your original post, literally moving goalposts

>Are you a brainlet?
Yes I am

Smash is no more like Street Fighter than Mario 64 is like Mario World. They have similar elements but they're not the same.

Maybe because 3D fighters literally and fundamentally play differently than 2D fighters you moron.