*ruins open-world games*

Just turn them off if they bother you.

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Who the fuck is the milkman?

You cant unless you mod it

I miss superdickery.com

You can do that with mods, sure, but no mods add in any other way to know where to go. You have your quest journal, but it doesn't give direction.

Play psyconauts.

>implying that open-world "games" were good to begin with

Couldn't you mod out the compass marker but keep the map marker.

>game has an option to remove it or it's easily modded out
>quests text/dialog don't bother with proper directions anymore or target/objective is so close it's not even necessary

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I actually don't know.

The fuck man? You can turn if off from the menu, and there IS a mod that adds Morrowind style quest text that tell you the directions and detailed objectives.

>Enraged Rodrigez
That guy is such a fucking faggot for shitting on a decent game while taking money to call Skyrim the best thing ever.

Hard pass, thank you.

It's been a while but I thought you could just stop tracking quests.

le open world games were always bald

No matter if you prefer Morrowind or are wrong, this really does sum up a big issue with Skyrim neatly

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markers didn't ruin skyrim. The shitty dungeons and story/side missions did. But dammit there is not another game where I can be a nord fighting thomas tank engines flying over mountains

>a videogame can be bald
What fucking odds do I, a 31 year old male with receding hair has, huh? HUH? Fuck my life.

>bald
FUCK

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but were they pig like in appearance

I can see why casuals would prefer the latter, it streamlines the process.
That doesn't explain why also casuals would spend 100s of hours on Skyrim (on fucking consoles by the way) if they have this shit, if they do it out of immersion, the first thing that would ruin it would be that damn tracker.

>implying open world games are fun

BOTW is the best example of it and it's still boring as sin.

>cries about stupid shit all the time
Just end it already. You're miserable.

botw is worse than skyrim

Shit, really? I haven't played skyrim in a few years. I'll have to check that out.

Honestly this is biggest reason why I don't like open world games.
No adventure, just fetch quests and Skinner's box simulation

This. If I want to do a quest I set the marker and then make my way over there, usually going in circles and checking out every fucking location on the way there. It's really just to set a general direction to go in.

Come the fuck on man real talk

Oblivion also had quest marker you dump zoomer.

Morrowind wasn't great about it either. There are several cases where the directions they give you are incredibly cryptic for no reason, more complicated than they should be (Probably because they assume what locations you know or don't know) or sometimes flat out wrong.

I think the real best thing to do is that if the NPC quest giver doesn't know where you need to go, that they should give you directions like in that image. It makes sense because apparently the NPC doesn't know where Caius is. However the vast majority of quests know exactly where you need to go, in which case there should be no reason why the NPC couldn't just point you to where you need to go on your map.

A thousand cuts of shittiness ruined Skyrim, including both of those things you mentioned

Phoneposter detected!!!

Botw is the worst example of it though, it is inferior to even skyrim in almost every single way.

An user with no taste? Yes, it's a fact. It really happened.

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The point is that the NPC is being cryptic, overly complicated, or is wrong. I can see how that is frustrating and maybe they just shouldn’t do that, but they were trying to be more immersive by demonstrating how different people give different kinds of directions

Most people don't enjoy following directions like they're driving around lost. Reading directions on where to go isn't fun and doesn't add much to gameplay. At best you find where to go and there's no sense of accomplishment. At worst you get lost or waste a lot of time and get frustrated.

>Don't like it? Just don't use it!
>*goes back to watching interactive movie*
>Ugh, These entitled gamers I swear...

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he must of sneezed out his brain

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It wasn't that bad in skyrim because the marker only tells you the general direction.
TW3's dotted line is the real offender.

its not quest markers that are bad per se, its the fact that you have a magical knowledge of the exact location of everything, to super gps coordinate accuracy, even people who are moving around
they could keep the markers, but make it so that only markers you actually place yourself on your map show up (to imitate the idea of drawing a bearing with a compass)
so you would have to somehow gather information about where your target is before deciding where to tag it on the map, or like Skyrim style, someone says "here let me show you on your map" instead of marking the exact point it gives you a general area, that you still have to look around in

>At best you find where to go and there's no sense of accomplishment.
But pointing yourself in the direction of a marker and going in a straight line creates a sense of accomplishment?

is Risen 2 and 3 any good? I can already tell that after I have completed Risen I might ask for more.

Of course not. It just lets you get to the gameplay faster. You know, the fun part of the game. Morrowind requiring the player to waste a lot of time figuring out how to get to places does nothing more than bloat up game time with a non-fun activity.

>It just lets you get to the gameplay faster.
Then why make it open world in the first place? Why not just have a series of linear levels if all the players want to do is "get to the gameplay faster"?

This is a very, very poor argument.

RPG designers are really missing a great way to do this. You could have the NPC give directions dependant on their INT/WIS/survival skills/whatever, which would range from "text description of general area" like the journal to "pinpointed location on map". You could also make it better with your own skill checks, maybe have a Decipher button on the journal that would give you a circled zone on your map that gets smaller the higher your check is.

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Ruined mmos too.

not the poster you both quoted, But I would like to know how is that possible?
I played skyrim but have only seen BOTW.
So a little greentext or anything you would like to say is appriciated

Because running through the world can be enjoyable. Stopping every 10 seconds to check your journal to recheck directions is not.

>Reading directions on where to go isn't fun and doesn't add much to gameplay.
Yes it is and yes it does. It breathes a lot of life into the world, too.

"Here let me point to it on your map"ruins your game?
Sounds like a you problem.

>Stopping every 10 seconds to check your journal to recheck directions is not.
I think you should consult a doctor if you can't remember something for longer than 10 seconds.

botw has
worse music
weapons that break every 2 minutes
4 dungeons that suck
100 mini dungeons that are just one silly puzzle
the same 4 powers through the entire game they get old very fast
combat is somehow less engaging because of how easy it can be
you get OP really fast wether you like it or not
there is zero roleplaying
the world is too big and has nothing interesting in it
900 korok puzzles with 4 variations youd get sick of them real fast

I dont know look I played botw when it came out
I played skyrim for the first time two weeks ago
Skyrim feels way better, more immersive and interesting in every way

The main thing that makes botw bad is that there just really isn't enough content, notice how when people praise the game the main thing they praise is "exploration", that's all the game has outside of a few small set pieces and a few dozen mini dungeons. There isn't even any decent enemy variety.
Compare this to skyrim, the quests dungeons and stuff may not be good but at least they exist
The weapon degradation system is pretty garbage as well.

But then they should show it as you are talking to the NPC. When you leave him the marker should disappear.

It represents your characters skill at remembering this stuff.

having a point to direct yourself to isnt the problem, thats no different than if you had a compass
the problem is that it points you to the exact point you need to find with no thought required
even if you had a compass, you still have to take into account the distance youve traveled, or you wont know if when you get there or if you go too far
he could just make a mark with a pencil

He likes sitting around watching tv all day now

Does your char have oldtimers?
Lot of effort to hate something that isn't unreasonable.

Call me wrong if you want, but you know I'm right simply because people clearly enjoy Skyrim's waypoints over Morrowind's due to its popularity.
Not only that, but you can't even claim that "It doesn't matter because they're casuals". Reading directions is not a difficult task or require any skill aside from basic literacy, and therefore does not make you a casual or hardcore gamer.

Also before you claim ad populum. My post said "Most people". Therefore the argument in this case is literally about popularity.

Thats ridiculous. I have a good memory and I do not see a bunch of white arrows when I walk around in the real world.

>he could just make a mark with a pencil
It being marked on your map is fine, it being a thing hovering on top of an NPC is not, then.

...do you mean alzheimers? You know, the disease that causes senility?

>must of
Sure that wasn't you?

>"What? You mean I'm supposed to EXPLORE an open world and use my map to find where I need to go? I can on;y do that with an on screen pointer"

People like you are whats ruining open world games

6.Concerning the Dynamic Quest Compass, how might it replace the previously text-based instructions Elder Scrolls fans have become accustomed to? Furthermore, will the compass be an option which can be turned on and/or off at the player's leisure?

It's a lifesaver to us and everyone who has played it. We should have done it long ago. We use it to show you where a goal is when we want you to know about it. A good example is the first quest in Morrowind, to find the Spymaster in Balmora. Most people who played Morrowind never find him, because they don't like to read directions, they get confused and lost. Now picture him roaming around town, going to the store, eating at the tavern, locking his house at night. And you have a quest to talk to this guy, all you want is a little info so you can keep playing. He's impossible to find without this quest target. And we want you to find him, we don't want it to be a puzzle, or frustrating. So no, you cannot turn it off. Trust me, you cannot play without it, it's not distracting at all, and it's 100% necessary to find things we tell you to find. Now, we don't always give you a quest target. There are many quests where the person you're talking to does not know where something is, and you will not get one, and you have to bribe people to find out where something is, or we just want you to find it on your own.

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>The thing that ruins open world rpgs is a quest marker

Did you even play post Morrowind Elder Scrolls you stupid fuck?

People enjoy skyrim over morrowind because morrowind has shit graphics. The quest marker only matters if you are doing quests and I don't think that someone who sinks 700 hours into skyrim have any left to do.

>I'm retarded
Yep, thanks for clearing that up.

>most people are retarded like me so I'm right!
Poor argument, like I said.

>game gives no ingame directional ques for exploration/finding your objective
>there is no "go to rockbreaker cave from the east road and take the fork south"
>just "go to this cave and kill the draugur" *map pointer pops up*

And opening your map every 5 minutes to make sure you're on the right path doesn't count either, at that point you're just using the quest marker but far more obtusely

>NPC acts like a cryptic fuck
>Just look up the location online

Pretty much what I do and what I've always done.

So do you think that if Skyrim had Morrowind's quest directions rather than markers people would like it more? Even the game devs would disagree with you.

>I must be a genius because I like things most people don't like!
Sounds like your argument is even worse.

>several cases where the directions they give you are incredibly cryptic for no reason or sometimes flat out wrong
>instead of fixing this the feature should just be removed completly

>just turn it off, bro!

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>We have no attention span so instead of having directions we'll have a quest marker tied to the person or thing we want you to find so you can go straight to that if you want to, it's simplified so we can get the largest audience, including children and women who wouldn't play our harder titles.

>Because of Morrowind's shit graphics

It's dice roll combat, weird world, lack of immediate fast travel, and slow start don't help either.

In two hours in Skyrim you're fighting dragons, learning shots, choosing sides in a civil war, or just pursuing a quest.

In two hours of Morrowind I've killed a few rats for the fighters guild and walked around a bit.

If user need this to make himself feel good let him have it I say.Poor bastard first TES game was Morrowind so have mercy on him and give him the win.

ahem

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Some people - the ones engaging in the world - would like it more, some - the ones looking for distraction - would like it less. I think you would like it less. I think I would like it more. Therefore, I'd like it if there were no quest marker and a description instead. What the devs think about my opinion is not really important to the opinion itself.

it's true

Where did I say that? I even explained that they should keep it for quests like finding Caius if the NPC giving you the quest doesn't know where he is.

Look user I get that you're upset, but don't get mad at me. I just think it's silly that someone needs to give me cryptic directions to get to a place that's supposed to be a super well known city or location. Surely the people of Morrowind know what cartography is.

They are the only ones worth playing.

Morrowind is a fantastic game and you're just being a faggot

Is this fuckin bait? That's exactly what Morrowind fans like about the game and dislike about Skyrim you god damn mong

>hovering thing on top of an NPC is not
agreed. it would be pretty simple to just give some dialogue to guards so you can ask for directions to various people or places, or add an NPC at the city entrance that charges a small fee, who can show you around the city.

So far the dunmer are the only race that can't read a map. They are a simple backwards people. Think of them as the hillbillys of TES.

There is no accounting for taste.

>He fell for the instant gratification trap

Apparently it's bait for retards lacking reading comprehension.

I wish every big open world game copied BotW from now on, too bad most western devs are too lazy to actually design a world around exploration

Quest markers didn't ruin it, laziness did. Quest markers were just a way to deal with that

wow i still managed to have fun too

oh wait i still am having fun playing skyrim

who is gonna stop me

This was the point that killed these threads for a long while. Your average player explores on there own whenever they feel like it and only use the quest markers as reminders of indicators of where to go. The people who tend to have a problem with quest markers are either immersion fags or autists that feel the need to go straight just because the game says so.

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>He wants a story to be boring for ten hours before interesting shit happens.

Instant gratification is getting power armor and a minigun in the first five minutes of FO4. It isn't beating the tutorial dragon and being given a new and fun gameplay mechanic to screw around with.

>This is the point at which a casual player who enjoys games like Skyrim gives up,

all this effort into an image and you argue in bad faith from the beginning

hasta la bye bye nerd boy

Based

>at this point of the game you stand no chance against an orc

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>Marks maps so I know where I eventually want to go, even if I put the game down for a week cause of work.
>Still explore and go off the road to check out shit

vs

>Morrowind gives directions and journal entries
>Put the game down for a few days and forget what I was doing
>Have to open journal to refresh
>This quest just gives me the name of the place, no directions
>Have to check my map to be sure I haven't found it
>Next have to back track to the original npc and navigate the Wikipedia dialogue to refresh
>Finally ready to quest

I just prefer the former because I maybe have ten hours a week at best to game. I can see someone who binges for 40 hours at a time hating it though.

Now THAT is spoken like a true and absolute casual
>It's dice roll combat, weird world, lack of immediate fast travel, and slow start don't help either.
Dice roll combat is a common complaint, but the “weird world” is universally considered great, toll travel is objectively better and more immersive, and Morrowind has an incredibly fast start compared to Skyrim.
>In two hours in Skyrim you're fighting dragons, learning shots, choosing sides in a civil war, or just pursuing a quest.
You mean sat through a tedious and unskippable cutscene, forced to do a basic bitch tutorial for features anyone could figure out on their own, being shown a supposedly nuanced civil war plot boiled down to absurd simplicity, and shown and extremely contrived plot point in the shittiest main story of the series

TW3 is so fucking horrible though
I wish the MC wouldnt speak, or wasnt so ugly.

Is there a mod that fixes the atrociously designed world?

Remember in FO4 when the quest marker points you to the hidden button under a guy’s desk that opens up a secret door?

>I just prefer the former because I maybe have ten hours a week at best to game. I can see someone who binges for 40 hours at a time hating it though.
This is the reason why, targeting an adult audience means you're also targeting people with jobs and/or kids, so you casualize the game to suit their limited playtime

Yeah yeah, we get it, Morrowind was way better and Skyrim is for casuals or something blah blah blah stop playing things i don't like right now or i'm calling the cops

me in games with quest markers

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>At this point in the game you don't stand a chance against an orc

I didn't realize that when I dropped Gothic the first time, just thought I sucked. Sseeth's review help me get back in and raptor the entire map. It's an alright game.

>uses comfy descriptive quest objectives mod
Nothin personnel Todd.

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I remember when shat on morrowind's directions. Guy ended up pressing him until he gave a specific quest, and they were fucking flawless. Anyone got the caps?

>yeah dude quest markers ruined everything
>i really miss having to open a journal, look through 20 pages for keywords, then look at vague ass directions like "go past the tomb" and pray it's the right one because the same tomb is pasted 200 times over the map

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>that video
Based and welshpilled.

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Just give players a map and compass and some directions (landmarks to look out for) and you've made it. It's the fucking GPS crap that ruins it.

Honestly I don't like having to listen to the NPC's because they're almost always not specific enough about things and I get lost trying to find my way, that's not fun at all. That said, I also don't like a quest marker showing me exactly where I need to go either. I want things to be fun and casual but also not brain dead. I don't even know what I'm looking for.

Well, I can't change the reality of the world that I work a fun job, have hobbies, and friends instead of living on trustfund money.

I like entertainment that respects my time and doesn't take hours to deliver it's plot and good moments. Short and sweet is fine with me since even when I was young I never played a long game that didn't have significant dips and spikes in quality.

Besides slow games are still made. Didn't that slav rpg get a new expansion?

i don't disagree with you, i can't even touch jrpgs anymore due to the time investments when I used to play them non stop 5 years ago

Get a life you kissless virgin, no one has time to spend 3 hours looking for an objective based on shit writing

Morrowind being a shit game doesn't invalidate the argument, just play Gothic which is a vastly superior game

Real fuck on talk come the man.

>WOOOOW I HAVE TO READ ???

Oh, I see it
>Left clicks and trades wooshes with dude
I have begun to see the light
>Spends thirty minutes walking to a town for a fetch quest because no bus.
I have come to embrace it
>Praises mushroom trees for not being pines
Such a sweet and intoxicating ignorance
>Shitposts about Skyrim while looking at a Wikia to understand the directions he got
Morrowind truly is
>Votes Morrowind as #1 best game of all time
Morrowind will always be
>Disregards Gothic 2, the superior game
The GOAT

yes, and?

>Have to thumb through flavorless prose to get to the note you need

I too love reading three instruction manuals instead of skimming through one.

I get where you're coming from since work restricts my time too. However the rather straightforward solution to that is devs have to improve their level design and writing.
The chief issue with quest markers, and 'press X to make shit glow' is that is foster passivity and sloppiness on the part of the designers. They don't need to worry about designing iconic or unique landmarks to orient the player, nor do they have to provide context or clues in the environment or dialogue. All they have to do is throw together a world and drop some brain-dead markers in to direct the players.

Open world gaming and RPGs peaked with Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
Name a game with better exploration and world building - you can't. Now add to that the best video game soundtrack ever composed, god-tier art direction, a compelling story and an exciting battle system that, even if it gets repetitive later on, always makes you feel amazing when you finish all combos.
XC2 is the peak of gaming. Nia is the cutest character ever created too.

I always preferred the first Gothic game because of its unique fantasy prison setting and atmosphere

They deliver milk, mine is an old dude who comes on mondays and fridays

I bet you were the kid that loved homework.

Unhomogenized milk is the best milk. Well until you skim off the good stuff that is.Then it sucks.

Sure love reading directions and manuals! I'm glad you agree

I wish the milkman would deliver my milk in the morning.
I would like some milk from the milkman's wife's tits.

>I bet you were the kid that loved homework.
What the fuck, kids like that exist?

Yes they made Morrowind.

They do.

You won't see them on Yea Forums.

well, they were garbage long before skyrim already.

>there own

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Your father

>It isn't beating the tutorial dragon
It honestly is since every dragon afterwards is the exact same fight. But Bethesda knows they need to blow their wad early in these games because catering to the lowest of the low is how they keep their pockets filled.

The reason they are iconic in Skyrim is because Skyrim is the epitome of blandness in open world design. It's all promise, no satisfaction.

On the surface it looks great. The world is large, each region has a distinct character despite the overall bland color scheme, there's varied geography from the Dragonsreach to Windhelm to Solitude to Markath, with plenty of smaller villages and such. There are hundreds of locations, points of interest, and things to find. In theory, you should be able to learn the world of Skyrim and find your way around without a map marker.

The problem is that it's all shallow as a puddle, mostly due to the bland combat and boring gameplay but also just lazy content design of interiors and quests. Hardly anything you ever find is memorable because nothing is ever truly threatening or engaging.

If that didn't exist nobody would have ever completed the game except for maybe a select group of autists.

>game gives no ingame directional ques for exploration/finding your objective
Time for you to go exploring then, faggot.

You spelled Morrowind wrong. That is the game you are looking for if you are challenge averse.

Needing the game to tell you it is time to explore.
You don't need the game to hold your hand like that and you can just go explore.

this is such a dumb fucking image. in skyrim if the player doesn't know where the person or object is they won't have a quest marker pointing to it.
and skyrim does give flavor text.

>literally every time this fucking thread is made people point out you can easily turn it off and you are just fine because every quest that tells you the location is marked on the map

wow almost like the people bitching don't even play the games.

I don't care what you Yea Forumstards say, i love skyrim and all it's flaws

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>designing iconic or unique landmarks to orient the player, nor do they have to provide context or clues in the environment or dialogue.
morrowind and gothic aren't like this at all
morrowind is just brown and grey blobs and gothic is a linear game
what environmental clues do those games provide
you using buzzwords that don't even apply to the games you are talking about.

They're quite different from the original. Combat system gets better, there are more quests and exploration, but imo it loses the charm it had. If you like the cartoony pirate theme, you'll enjoy it. Gnome island in 2 is the best part, be sure to get the dlc

The quest marker is there for the vast majority of quests, and the point of journal directions isn’t merely for flavor, but to make you use an iota of critical think to connect you to the world

It's a love hate relationship, not very many games are still talked about regularly like Skyrim is. People bitch and moan but they can't get enough. Last time Bethesda put heart into a game.

why are you asking that question? are you the milkman?

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It's simple. But I chuckled