Japanese game has 50 hours of text

>Yea Forums hivemind meme

Attached: 1556947397424.jpg (1079x1063, 141K)

I believe different games/different devs are judged by different standards on Yea Forums.
One game made by a bigger studio is shat on and nitpicked, while another game, overall worse even, is treated more leniently because the dev studio is smaller and/or game more niche and the fanboys are going to fight you tooth and nail defending the game should you criticise it and nobody's going to bat an eye.

Torment has actual gameplay (even if it's worse than other IE games in that aspect).
Persona's travesty of a gameplay is literally hit weakness hit all out button for literally the entire game.

>planescape
>gameplay
A visual novel with point and click gameplay is still a VN you absolute mongoloid

Give me good japanese games to play. I want to try and get into them. Only have a PC so no console thanks

made the mistake of formatting my computer mid(?) way through plain scape T and just cant get back in to it knowing i need to replay shit

Attached: 1554975755746.png (807x659, 520K)

i like both

Fans of wrpgs want to play a game while fans of jrpgs want to watch an anime. Nothing bad about anime, but you're better off watching the best titles the medium offers rather than watching jrpgs. Better animation, voice acting and scripts. More content in a smaller time frame.

*plane
wasn't making a point with that

MGS 3
DMC 3
Sekiro
Dark Souls
Nier and Nier: Automata
Okami
Majora's Mask
Bayonetta
Shadow of the Colossus
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Super Metroid and Metroid Prime, Silent Hill 2
Resident Evil 4

The difference is that Planescape: Torment's dialogue is actually interactive, unlike Persona's.

And Torment doesn't have 50 hours of text. You can finish the entire game in 25 hours.

Attached: 121020233424.jpg (2000x1884, 919K)

All the turbonerds who actually played it do consider PS:T the best RPG, though. Of the generation, or any generation.

Attached: jrpgs_wrpgs.jpg (656x577, 146K)

>MGS
Y-I-K-E-S!!!! Not the best way to open a list unless it's a bad/cringe games list!

If only you had the enhanced edition.
Then you would have cloud saves, only if you enabled them.

>japan still makes good jrpgs
>last good wrpg came out like 20 years ago

I don't think this is really a US vs Japan thing.

Attached: fallout_dialogue.png (803x581, 39K)

Attack on Titan WoF 2 is pretty good.
t. hate attack on titan manga/anime and most jrpgs.
>yikes
Not the best way to hide the fact that you are retarded.

left has waifus so it wins by default. no one cares about the story for persona. its shit

>Better animation, voice acting and scripts. More content in a smaller time frame.
hahahaha, NO.
Not even remotely true.
Not only jrpgs have tendentially better stories than anime, but especially they have WAY better pacing, since between every story portion they have stuff to do, so you're never bored, while anime on the other hand have nothing.

jrpgs give you an alternance of:
plot-gameplay-plot-gameplay-plot-gameplay-etc...
anime, on the other hand, give you an alternance of:
plot-nothing-plot-nothing-plot-nothing-etc...

(And I'm even being kind, since in most anime the plot-relevant parts are less than half their whole duration)

Right has waifus. There is a succubus and a tiefling waifu. Both top tier waifus.

Now this gets a YIKES FOR ME.
>Fallout New Vegas
Same, but also
[Terrifying Presence] If you don't pay me, I'll clone and drown him second time.
>Fallout 4
Quest Added: Save the baby.

>B-B-B-BUUUT IT HAS WAIFUS

Attached: 716.jpg (765x799, 108K)

I'm gone.

>WAY better pacing, since between every story portion they have stuff to do, so you're never bored,
Persona 5's 100 hours disagree with you.

what's this user's hot take here? games can't be too long? am I reading this right?

Persona 5 gameplay:
>choose an activity from a menu
>your character is magically teleported to the place in question
>npcs talk for 5+ minutes at a time
>your character can choose a meaningless response
>npcs continue to talk for 5+ minutes at a time
>your character can choose a meaningless response
>after the activity ends, you are teleported back

Planescape: Torment gameplay
>you have to manually travel to your destination
>on the way there the world is freely interactable. you can do side qusts, find loot, talk to npcs, pickpocket them (you can also steal from stores). you can also attack and kill npcs, which can alert city guards in the upper districts (but not in the slum sections)
>dialogue always has to be initiated by the player manually. once you do, you can always say farewell and exit the conversation at any time, you're never stuck in a conversation (barring 1 or 2 plot-critical conversations)
>dialogue is fully interactable. when an npc says a line, you always get to choose a response in return
>npcs can react differently depending on what party members are with you. e.g. interacting with githzerai/githyanki npcs while dak'kon in the party yields compleetely different conversations, having fall-from-grace with you and talking to a baatezu can piss them off to the point that they attack you, etc.

Nobody has ever fucking said that you fucking psychotic shitposting mental patient.

Games can be too long, but some of them overstay their welcome. Like Persona 5 with its combat and tons of pointless dialogues.

>all lead to the same outcome

>Based Turn Based
vs
>Massive step down from Goldbox RTwP.

I thought it was too short. certain characters join too late for there to be characterization and growth.

>Persona 5
>based turn based
Well, the turn based part is accurate at least, I guess.

Attached: 12344889445.jpg (2000x1797, 853K)

That means the pacing is trash not that it's too short.

no, it just means it's too short. every character gets a chapter, fine, but then you need a longer endgame after that.

>Planescape: Torment tells the greatest video game story of all time in 20-30 hours
>Persona 5 needs 100+ hours to tell a juvenile story about teenagers killing god that makes saturday morning cartoons look like high literature by comparison
Really activates the almonds.

Attached: 1552946972299.jpg (700x555, 35K)

>50 hours of fun
vs
>50 hours of dude trannies and real life politics lmao

greatest story of all time? really?

user including cutscenes and SLs it's a 100+ hour game. It's the pacing, we're the characters introduced as party members sooner it wouldn't be a problem.

they're introduced as fast as they can. they each get a chapter in which they're integral to the conflict. after that, there's one more dungeon and the game just ends. the endgame clearly needed to be longer.

>50 hours of dude trannies and real life politics lmao
Yeah, this is also why I dislike Persona.
>tell a juvenile story about teenagers killing god that makes saturday morning cartoons look like high literature by comparison
Fuck you, Persona's target audience didn't watch saturday morning cartoons, this is high literature for them. Gosh dang it, you are so full of yourself!

>they're introduced as fast as they can.
They aren't. Most of Persona 5's dialogue is literal filler, with characters repeating the same talking point multiple and in some cases, even over a dozen times. You could cut the game's length in half and you would lose nothing of substance

>they're introduced as fast as they can
They really aren't. Even p4 had better pacing because the characters made appearances outside of their respective chapters. P5 doesn't do that.

I disagree. what you call filler I call characterization and growth. the stuff I wanted more of and I found lacking for especially the later characters.

Persona 5 has good gameplay and Planescape Torment does not. That's pretty much all it comes down to no matter how you look at it.

Attached: 1562183740040.jpg (780x720, 45K)

It’s spelled “sweaty” dumbass

>what you call filler I call characterization and growth
Despite the fact that none of that actually happens in those periods.

agreed. P5 feels like each chapter was assigned to a certain team and these teams did not work together in any way. Perhaps having everybody be less confined to to their "home chapters" the feeling of a sudden end could have been avoided.

Both games are great but you could EASILY delete over half of persona 5's writing and the game would have been substantially better. I have never seen such fucking repetitive, pointless and utterly predictable writing in my life before. Why did they feel the need to repeat the same fucking bullshit over and over and over again?

>wrpg dialogue choices

Attached: WRPG dialogue options.jpg (1920x1080, 423K)

>p5 characters never grow
that's all they do though

Which is why they're the exact same

not really though

Going by the track record of adaptations, you're still better off actually playing the game in question.

Does Planescape let you date cutesy anime girls? No. Why do you think that trash like Fire Emblem and Persona is so damn popular around here?

Yes really the only one that really changes its Futaba and outside of her arc it never happens again.

nah that's wrong. i guess you shouldn't have skipped all that "useless" dialogue user.

Said the person who didn't pay attention to it at all.

>Persona 5 has good gameplay
Do JRPG-fags actually believe this?

honestly, user, what crawled up your ass? why are you just making assumptions about anonymous posters now?

They all have character growth within the confidants but those growths take place in a main stors that does not require the use of them. You can help Yusuke get better, but the larger scope of the story does not need it.

Yeah sure, it would have been nice to see that integrated a little more, like P3, but trying to account for confidant levels, all confidants levels, throughout the entire story would have either resulted in everything still constantly leading to the same place (which you would have complained about) or an unfocused mess (which you would have complained about). Honestly Mass Effect 3 bombing as hard as it did put me off promises of 'everything matters', because it's better to just not do it, than fuck it up.

Is it really so fun to intentionally spread disinformation, CherryPick-kun?

Attached: wjrpgs.jpg (2000x1206, 580K)

>why are you just making assumptions about anonymous posters now?
You do realise you have been posting here, right?
We can gather what you know and what you've ignored from your statements as well as what you've been making up.

Its as if both sides are full of spergs and cherry pickers who try to provoke other side because "MUH EPIC TROLL"

I like both of these games and so does everyone else, what is OP being a faggot for?

>Yea Forums tells me that Planescape: Torment is a "visual novel"
>Play it
>It's an open-world RPG with quests, hubs, day/night cycle, towns, stats, party members, tons of items, spells, abilities like stealth and pick-pocketing, etc, and tons of scenarios that can be approached with multiple ways. Actually, it's completely optional to do much talking, in fact you won't get as much dialogue options depending on how you level your character

Uhhhhh?

Attached: Planescape-Torment-Header-02.jpg (1920x1080, 632K)

PST has the arguably the most meaningful romance ever put in a video game.

Attached: fall_from_grace_by_denis48_d4iyl8i-fullview.jpg (600x695, 32K)

so what lead you to that conclusion? I am interested to hear. I have a theory but I won't share it just yet.

Just like with all the classics out there, MANY simply pretend to have actually played them for whatever reason.

>LOL YOU HAVE TO READ IN IT XD
>LE UPDATED MY JOURNAL
That's about it.

>persona 5, a game where the central theme is heists and thievery
>protagonists are literally called phantom thieves
>there's no way to actually customize any of the characters to be a thief

>planescape: torment, generic rpg (gameplay-wise)
>protagonist can invest skill-points in a variety of thief-related skills, such as stealth, disarming traps, backstabbing, lockpicking, pickpocketing, etc.

Why are jrpgs like this?

Attached: 4cf4060b-da6a-41a6-8d72-c45608a4e7a0.png (598x480, 79K)

Twist: it's the same guy responding to himself.

Planescape doesn't let me pretend I was a teenager with a successful love life

I don't understand the point everything that poster said about the cats was correct

Why are you posting Gray than?
There was no romance with her.

Oh

Attached: Confused red skull.png (476x441, 220K)

because they're designed to sell colourful or sexual art and high school escapism

They're not based on D&D mechanics?

Yeah, that sounds like someone who hasn't played it.

Curios why Planescape is such hot topic in Yea Forums shitposting now. Not first time I see similar thread. Something related to discord underage circlejerk?

>enter a bar in planescape
>full of patrons, all so varied and interesting that you cannot even predict which two will become party members

>enter coffee shop in persona
>a single patron
>hair isn't black so you know they're gonna be a main character
>game reminds you about her multiple times two minutes later including flashbacks

inb4 intentional; intentionally bad is still bad

How does PS:T have gameplay if Persona has only "gameplay"?

No. It lets you be a man.
Really makes you think doesn't it?

Fuck you OP i played and enjoyed booth.

On a side note.
P5 has a mix of text and actual jrpg dungeon crawling game-play whit fun JRPG combat.
Torment is mostly just a ton of text and an occasional fight thats the simplest the Infinity engine series has.

That was the point, yes.

You really walked into the Smoldering Corpse and didn't think Ingus was going to be a party member?

nice pic fag

It's not even that. JRPG mechanics tend to not reinforce the story game is going for. Although, I guess that falls under characters having mechanical identity or being interchangeable. Your FF9 vs FF8, for example.

>jrpgs
Persona is pretty much the only one like that.

You're free to point out examples that suggest otherwise.

>original image compares turn-based wrpgs with turn-based jrpgs
>make a response image that compares a turn-basd wrpg (one that was specifically inspired by jrpgs) to some jrpg that is basically a single-player mmo

You really are retarded, are you? Your comparison is completely pointless because it's comparing games that aren't even within the same genree.

Most of the things in that image aren't even true, e.g. XBX doesn't let you target Aoe's, doesn't have friendly fire and 'invisibility' isn't true invisbiliyty, it's just aggro reduction. And since it's an action game, there's no way to control multiple charactrs simultaneously.

I never played any Final Fantasy so you lost me. Persona isn't based around the D&D adventuring party mechanics so it doesn't make sense to criticize it for not letting you spec your character like a rogue.

See those things in the brackets? Its a reputation system which affects how certain characters react to the player, based on their personality type.
>There are ten personality types; the player disposition toward each is tracked globally based on their responses or ways of dealing with people.

>They're not based on D&D mechanics?
What does D&D have to do with it? Fallout, Deus Ex and any non-fantasy wrpg all allow you to play as the thief archetype.

Attached: 1549152541649.jpg (1200x1386, 118K)

Not how it works. You're the one with the burden of proof broski

>Building up enough points in any of presented qualities unlocks new dialogue options and ways to solve quests
Looks like wrpg dialogue wins again

Attached: smug ran.png (442x472, 317K)

The difference with PST is that you have a lot more control over the game's pacing. You're the one putting points into intelligence/wisdom/charisma, you're the one talking to NPCs and picking the dialogue options. There's a much stronger mix of exploration, combat, and dialogue. Whereas with Persona 5 you're forcefed non-stop cutscenes to the point where it's basically a visual novel with occasional dungeon crawling. The story has barely any gameplay mixed in and the gameplay barely has any story mixed in. The pacing is horrendous even by JRPG standards. Compare it with the first two Persona games or any random SMT and it's night and day.
PST also has better writing and more interesting characters.

And Persona doesn't have the kind of gameplay or class-system where that would make sense. Why are you upset about this?

>a burning man you can barely interact with
A side quest seemed much more likely to me than a future party member.

the guy was in a coma in the air for so long that the bar was named after him, I didn't expect him to suddenly jump up and start serving me

Whoops I misread the OP, I thought he was arguing the reverse. Oh well, my post stands.
I didn't hate Persona 5 by any means but the structure/pacing is easily the worst aspect of it.

PS:T has been popular on Yea Forums a long time ago. Like, over 10 years. You've got to remember that the average Yea Forums user right now is a little kid who follows the generic stock of Nintendo and Japanese jank because they likely were bullied at school by the cooler kids who only played CoD and GTA and this is their outlet to seem more in-the-know. If you talk about actual hardcore and old games they get intimidated because we're breaking their casual circlejerk, and that's all there is to it.

oh great thats what I've been looking for a MEANINGFUL romance

>And Persona doesn't have the kind of gameplay or class-system where that would make sense. Why are you upset about this?
The game is literally about executing heists. How the fuck does it not make sense?

>thing is good, better than other things
>NO, OTHER THINGS ARE BETTER!
>I would like examples of these other, better things
>LOL NOPE

You do realize that Persona also has this?

I mean none of those things actually do anything at all, they're just there because they were there in BG and in the source books.

That's not how it went. It went
>this is the best thing ever
>really?
>WELL WHAT'S BETTER THEN? HUH? HUH? YOU DON'T KNOW ME! YOU DON'T KNOW ME! I TOLD YOU! BITCH I TOLD YOU!
Calm down nigga like dayum

>I mean none of those things actually do anything at all

>actually paying for stuff instead of stealing it from stores in Planescape: Torment

Heck, there are side quests where you can hand in the quest item to an NPC and then immediately pickpocket it back from them.

Attached: 1557359713836.png (225x225, 50K)

No it fucking doesn't
All your choices have the same outcomes

oh come on mate, Torment is also a circlejerk. everyone wants to prove their cool oldschool cred by pretending to have played it. exactly the same as when contrarians want to prove their cynicism by hating on whatever's popular. neither kind contribute anything useful.

Literally every point about Darkest Dungeon is wrong.
Bad cherrypicking user.

Does it? Do you mean social links? Because I personally wouldn't count that.

No your actual stats, Charm, Guts etc. can unlock different dialogue options in some places.

In Persona it's more like:
>don't have enough points? Too bad, content completely locked out of your reach until you improve

>have enough points? Nice, now you can watch the cinematic without any meaningful interaction required from the player.

literally doesn't matter. Combat is an afterthought and so are all mechanics surrounding it, including equipment.

Just pick mage and faceroll your way through like normal people. It's better for the story too, 'cuz Mebbeth is cool.

>How does PS:T have gameplay
Torment has multiple builds that actually change your play style beyond what element and attribute your attack is going to have, huge well-designed dungeons instead of a set of linear corridors, a fuck ton of unique equipment, party members that have unique combat specializations and evolve over the course of a game and magic system that singlehandedly BTFOs P5's as far as actual spell utility and even spell animations go since it was heavily inspired by Final Fantasy summons.

Planescape is not the best IE game as far as actual gameplay goes but even a mediocre IE game still utterly destroys personashit in gameplay aspect.

name some actual high literature

>huge well-designed dungeons instead
HAH like fuckin what? The Drowned Depths of boredom?

I've been reading Umberto Eco and Gene Wolfe lately.

>You've got to remember that the average Yea Forums user right now is a little kid who follows the generic stock of Nintendo
Huh? There are a lot of kids here now but they certainly weren't reared on Nintendo given how much they hate them.

>The Drowned Depths of boredom
This sounds like a typical Persona 5 dungeon.

there is 52 posters on this thread and as a bold statement i estimate that 12-16 actually played it and finished it

also persona 4 was the only good one and that was because of the scooby doo plot

No it doesn't. Choices in Persona only affect how fast you reach the conclusion not what the conclusion is.

le epic contrarian can't be real about the game he's currently dicksucking. Sad!

>le epic contrarian
Planescape's influence and fame over the entire industry is so big it's really not a smart thing to call anyone liking Planescape over a niche shitty JRPG a contrarian, my friend.
Years go by, P5 will be forgotten together with a clique of ironic weebs that pretend to like it, Planescape is still going to be hailed as one of the best RPG experiences ever.

Do you even know what contrarian means?

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. I mean, some people do defend persona just because it's a Sony exclusive.

in this context is hating on p5 for vague reasons
nice appeal to authority. also you forgot to tell me what dungeon in Torment was "well designed."

not the best there exists one better
they are equivalent statements
if you can't think of a game with a better story then it is the best game story you know

>in this context is hating on p5 for vague reasons
So you don't.
Also no one is being vague except you.

You're the one who claims it's the best. You need to back up your claim somehow. You cannot shift the burden of proof broski

>"hey stop trying to purposefully go against mainstream opinion!"
>"hey stop appealing to mainstream opinion!"
Fucking schizo posters jesus christ

>appeal to authority
You're the one trying to bring "contrarians" into discussion you underage retard.

I think it's a big much to say best ever. It's just a classic amnesiac video game opening that leads into a grand adventure of self discovery culminating in trying to kill yourself. Torment is strong because of the worldbuilding more than the plot.

Based Wolfe bro.

Both shit lol

an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy where you substitute your argument for "i'm right because everyone says so!" still waiting to hear about that dungeon btw. guess it doesn't exist.

most jrpgs are for single men in their late 20s-30s so it makes sense they defend it and stuff but to put it on par with planescape its a very bad move or a really good bait

fucking lurk and learn before posting your retarded shit you faggots

>an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy where you substitute your argument for "i'm right because everyone says so
That's not what it means.

that's exactly what it means. now get back on topic and fucking admit that Torment is perfect in every single way. it's in fact a deeply flawed game in many ways. just like persona 5.

*isn't

fuck

Where can I meet this mysterious Yea Forums individual?

>shitsona faggot is getting BTFO
kek

no that ad populum. An appeal to authority is when you substitute and argument for "I'm right because this authority figure says so" its right there in the name how do you fuck that up

>fucking admit that Torment is perfect in every single way.
Even the people you were talking with literally call it a mediocre IE game.
It's just being a mediocre IE game is still miles ahead of any Persona garbage.

>brainlet spouting buzzwords he doesn't understand
"You are saying that there is a better game story. That's a claim you are making and you have the burden of proof." - that's what I would say if I were a retard.
Burden of proof doesn't pertain to unfalsifiable claims like "x is the best". The moment someone makes an unfalsifiable claim it stops being logical discourse and starts being a debate. That's why religious faggots do it all the time.
Now in case you haven't noticed from being on Yea Forums, "game is good vs game is bad" isn't logical discourse. It's a fucking debate.
The idea of a debate is to convince the other side of your viewpoint - I say it's the best story in a video game because I've never played or heard of a game with a better story.
Can you convince me otherwise?
The best way to do that would be to name a better game

>that's exactly what it means
No it isn't. An appeal to authority is say using a study by a famous scientist or institution to say your argument is right. A group of random people agreeing with you has nothing to do with it.

So not only do you not know what a contrarian is you don't know what an appeal to authority is. No wonder you like Persona, you can't understand anything beyond that level.

it's harder to make a mediocre game when you're an indie game, so it does deserve some praise
making a mediocre AAA game is just shameful

no that's wrong. the authority can just as easily be a broadly accepted opinion, it can even be just claiming it's a broadly accepted opinion. your nonstop deflections tell me I'm right and you're wrong btw. what fucking dungeon? what fucking builds, user?

no they were talking about epic dungeons and builds and meaningful customization, none of which exists in Torment. please don't hop in at the tail end of reply chains if you're not willing to read the whole context.

>that's exactly what it means. now get back on topic and fucking admit that Torment is perfect in every single way. it's in fact a deeply flawed game in many ways. just like persona 5.

They're flawed in very different ways. Torment's combat is shallow, but there's little of it and the game as a whole is cohesive and has a distinct identity. The central themes of the game are reinforced in every aspect of narrative and gameplay, and the whole role-playing aspect fits seamlessly within the core gameplay loop. While it has a big story focus, it never bogs the game down since the story is always handled through interactions the player has full control over.

Persona 5 by contrast is completely schizophrenic. The two halves of the game, dungeon crawling and visual novel, literally take place in two separate dimensions, that's how disjointed they are. The game has huge pacing issues, and will frequently take control away from the player for hours at a time to introduce the next character or spotlight the next plot development.

Attached: 1542803428213.png (466x492, 187K)

>most jrpgs are for single men in their late 20s-30s

because Japan has different takes on RPGs than the West does?

>none of which exists in Torment
Torment has giant sprawling multi-floor non-linear dungeons with puzzles, secrets, NPCs to interact with, coupled together with some unique situations like getting stuck in the extraplanar maze. P5 doesn't.
Torment allows you to play as a rogue, mage or warrior, with all of them having considerable differences in combat styles and stat spread. P5 doesn't.
Torment is not as good gameplay wise as IW2 or BG2 and it was acknowledged by the people in this thread. It's not perfect. But it's objectively better than a fucking persona in all those aspects.

>intentionally bad so it's okay

Torment from Curst Underground and onwards is badly padded with one completely meaningless encounter after the other. They knew their game was on the short side so they made a fucking spiral full of prison guards for you to slog your way through. This bogs down the story big time. Shit, dude, having an immortal main character is basically admitting that you don't give a shit about combat (which is fine), yet we still have such an awful late game with way too much of it.

Which dungeon is that mate?

>the authority can just as easily be a broadly accepted opinion, it can even be just claiming it's a broadly accepted opinion
No it can't, that's a bandwagon fallacy which is entirely different from an appeal to authority. How do you not know these things? Do you just use words you see on Yea Forums without knowing their meaning?

>your nonstop deflections
Did it ever occur to you that I'm not the same person you were talking to? I came into this thread because of Persona and not Planetscape. Plus you've already gotten your answers.

mostly bad takes but back in the day they hate some pretty interesting stuff like true love or phantasy star too bad they literally went the order 1886 route of story over gameplay which is fine if the gameplay wasn't so fuckig dull

>no they were talking about epic dungeons and builds and meaningful customization, none of which exists in Torment.

>high constitution build that triggers your regenerative abilities at a rapid rate so that you can fight enemies in melee
>thief build where you sneak around and backstab unaware enemies for massive damage multipliers
>mage build

>you can even combine different classes, since some of their characteristics (such as weapon proficiency) carry over to other classes

Attached: 13761383012.jpg (540x540, 26K)

Persona is not that great though. Play final fantasy or dragon quest like a real man.

>They knew their game was on the short side so they made a fucking spiral full of prison guards for you to slog your way through.
Nah, it was just that Curst was assigned to some guy who was terrible at designing content. It's the same guy who was in charge of the new Torment game, which unsurprisingly sucked ass.

none of that shit matters and you fucking know it. you can attack-move your party members through the game and you'll be fine.

Everything from Weeping Stone Catacombs onwards.
Go and actually play the game.

no it was a clear example of padding so they could write "50 hours of gameplay!" on the box. don't make excuses.

>huge well-designed dungeons
Bull, I like Planscape and don't like jRPGs in general, but dungeons in PS:T are short and boring.

>Everything from Weeping Stone Catacombs onwards.

But the Mortuary is the best dungeon in the game.

>intentionally bad
Just because your taste is horrendous it doesn't mean it's bad, now go back to twitter or whatever hellhole you crawled from

the catacombs sucked dick mate. a clear low point of the game. The undead nation was cool, but that wasn't because of the combat or the fucking level design.

>no it was a clear example of padding so they could write "50 hours of gameplay!" on the box.
if that's the case, why does curst have a shortcut that lets you skip the entire town's content and go straight to the prison?

>"trust me i was there bro"

>the catacombs sucked dick mate
Hearing this from a Persona fan is beyond amusing.

a LITERAL SPIRAL full of bland prison guards in a game where 95% of exp comes from quests isn't padding? get real dude

>One game made by a bigger studio is shat on and nitpicked, while another game, overall worse even, is treated more leniently because the dev studio is smaller and/or game more niche
This is just normal behavior though. It'd be ridiculous to expect the same level of polish out of some budget indie dev working on their first game as you'd expect out of Rockstar. A game is also always going to be treated more favorably when there's little else like it. Being unique is a valuable quality. By the same token, devs like Rockstar or Ubisoft rightfully deserve to be criticized when their games don't meet a certain level of polish or fail to stray away from a predictable and safe formula.

go on then, what do jrpgs intend to do differently from wrpgs
what is japan's idea of a "role-playing" game?
simplified combat systems?
every plot being "teenagers kill god"?
or is it anime waifus?

how come whenever I'm right posters want to call me names instead of arguing the point? really makes you think...

>none of that shit matters
It matter far, FAR more than any customization decision in P5

I don't think doing Kyse's quest means skipping the whole place, although you're right that most of it is optional. But then again most of the entire game is optional.

>a LITERAL SPIRAL full of bland prison guards in a game where 95% of exp comes from quests isn't padding? get real dude
You could have just run past them dude. This isn't Persona, touching an enemy doesn't send you into a combat screen.

I will agree that the Curst section is by far the worst designed part of the game, but 1 or 2 hours of padding hardly compares to Persona 5, a 100+ hour game where arguably most of the content is padding.

Divinity 2 Origin Sin is the best RPG of all time and shits on any JRPG and it has way less text than average for a RPG.

>whenever I'm right
You can't even provide a single fucking argument you underage retard. All your posts are variations of "nope, i'm right, you're wrong" and you get your ass handled to you every time you open your mouth about anything.

no. Personas matter more than your class in Torment. also fusing and collecting is more fun than "pick mage to win or don't who cares lmao"

not him but the game has you leveling mostly through rp and if you're going magic then there's actually quite few chances to try out your new spells
I think they chucked it in to show you how much you've progressed and give you the chance to fight more powerful enemies but in large enough numbers that you can make use of the spells you've got

Wind blows
Rain falls
Yea Forums seethes about P5

bro have you seen the speedrun? do you know what happens if you try to skip Curst Prison? That shit for sure wasn't intended. Literally 5 FPS.

>get real dude

it gets better with each post

also you can skip whole parts of the game

>Divinity 2 Origin Sin is the best RPG of all time
LMFAO

Yea Forums is you.

they chucked it in to pad the game length. stop it with these excuses. they give zero fucks about combat all the way until then. the main character is fucking immortal for chrissakes.

go play SMT, TWEVY, FF5, Tales of Vesperia
you will see the different takes JRPGs do
but judging from the last 3 lines of your post, you give off huge normalfag vibes, I doubt you even play games and are only here to shipost and bait people

>fusing and collecting is more fun

we out here on that grind esse

grind is gameplay at least

meant for

>grind is gameplay at least

put me on the screencap

I literally just said that they had little combat up until that point and the point of the prison was to indulge players who had improved their combat stats.
You sound like a broken record mate.

>there are literally thousands of games and you choose to grind on persona

i expect nothing less from chan imagine the amount of time

I only play dark souls and fifa, that's why I'm in a planescape thread

>they chucked it in to pad the game length.
They didn't. Most wrpg developers had never had the same obsession with game length as jrpgs did. Black Isle made games like Fallout and Planescape: Torment that can be comfortably finisheed in 20 hours. The town of Curst literally has a hole in the ground that lets you go straight to the prison and skip the town's content. Why would they do that if they wanted to pad out the game?

ok this is bait

based fifa poster

>handplaced enemies troughout the entire game which permanently die which is absolutely peak game design and kills every JRPG for they have the shittiest enemy encounter systems to ever exist
>great party members that have all an unique story which greatly adds to the main story
>can play customized character or predefined character that actually plays like a predefined character
>can play a skeleton or with skeletons in your party
>greatest freedom of any RPG ever, multiple approaches for almost everything possible
>no moralfaggotry, kill and steal however you want you have the freedom to do whatever you want
>extreme freedom in combat, a huge amount of playstyle supported, physics in combat supported
>game is very challenging even on normal mode but is peak gameplay on tactician
>huge amount of replay value
>tons of content
>great music
>story is interesting enough to keep you engaged
>npcs talk exactly the right amount, not some unrealistic amount you would never talk to a stranger you just met
>the game is oozing quality of life options at literally every moment
Name something better. D2 OS has the best game design you can ever find in a RPG.

you're repeating yourself too. go have "fun" in your spiral buddy. you know a spiral is a way to get the most distance walked out of the least map right?

so why is there three floors of nothing but crawling after that? why is it there for the first time in the fucking game then? it sure as fuck wasn't to tell a story.

>it’s another people get baited over what pile of shit smells better

Attached: 245500B1-B612-43B1-93B0-F2F6710408B5.png (478x468, 186K)

>persona 5 is bad
>"no japan has different tastes in rpgs"
>like what?
>"games other than persona 5"
conclusion, persona 5 is bad
I admit I don't actually think jrpgs are actually bad, I'm just forever seething about the cookie cutter retard jrpgs like persona 5
pepe poster wasn't me

>Darkest Dungeon
>RPG

As much as X-Com is. I mean, I like the game, but
Red Hook Studios itself is wrong on this one.

can you even play that game without wisdom and intell maxed out? you lose out on so much by not following that build.

p5 isn't really cookie cutter though, it has weird shit compared to most JRPGs like calendars and trips to the cinema

>also fusing and collecting is more fun
Not in Persona it isn't.

>because Japan has different takes on RPGs than the West does?

>rpgs without any actual role-playing, the defining characteristic of the genre
>"different takes"

Attached: 1547406766645.gif (416x307, 2.58M)

you can
>stealth
>combat
>run

you only fight if you want to bro, i realized that you are used to grindy jrpg shit but like think holmes

youtu.be/KXlvsPqpgHQ?t=1280

yeah just as intended. fucking retard. you never even tried yourself.

>can you even play that game without wisdom and intell maxed out?

torment.fandom.com/wiki/Kasseg,_Cerebral_Parasite

>The *kasseg* are a species of mental parasite that feeds on the nervous energy of sentient creatures. Believed to be a deviant branch of the dreaded intellect devourers, the kasseg is different in that it soothes the mind and bolster its host's higher mental processes, taking over certain mundane thinking tasks in exchange for feeding on his nervous energy for a time.
>"To 'use' the *kasseg*, the user simply attaches it to his bare skin. The *kasseg* then excretes a mucus-like resin that acts as a means of communication between the victim and itself. Once 'attached,' the *kasseg* lifespan drops to only a few hours."

>Usable by anyone, this item temporarily grants:
>+3 to Intelligence
>+1 to Wisdom
>Immunity to Panic

Attached: Kasseg_cerebral_parasite.gif (45x31, 2K)

>posts a speedrun where the player stealths through
What's the problem?

based yee-claw poster
The game is pretty great, not perfect but still the most fun I've had in an rpg.
That said, it has a lot of limitations by being multiplayer and a lot of the choices don't matter that much because you pop off to a different place every act.
You can tell that they struggled with Arx; trying to have a populated city that reacts to the players is a pretty bold undertaking.
I reckon that they'll nail baldur's gate. They've got a lot of experience and I think the new setting will force them to put a lot of thought into the tone

watch some more user see what happens

You forgot to add, faggot who spams this every thread, that each of those choices have a unique and completely different response.

>you're not supposed to use the mechanics the game gives you

this has gotta to be bait cmon

I literally don't even understand how the game is played in multiplayer. It feels entirely like a singleplayer game.

>stealth is not allowed because i say so
ok retard

the game fucking tanks to 10 fps, and that's on a modern computer. they didn't give a shit about testing that shit they just wanted to pad the game in a hurry. stop it with the excuses.

>the game fucking tanks to 10 fps,and that's on a modern computer.
pics or it didn't happened

what? are you fucking joking? i just posted it

>the game fucking tanks to 10 fps
Must be something wrong with that guy's computer or installation then, because none of the IE games run like that for me or any playthrough I've seen on YouTube. They're simple 2d games, why would they tank fps?

Are you so desperate that you cherrypick 1 YouTube video that has a fucked up problem as representative of the gam?

>game has performance issues
I've been saying this for years Yea Forums, Miyazaki intended for you to wrong warp past Blight Town

I feel like these would be great if they were hidden, trippled and the way they affected gameplay would be that in moments of great pressure or panic where your character might react based on habbit and instinct you lose control and they will react in the way you've "thought" him, to react up to that point.

>a game losing fps is indicative of broken mechanics
stop posting its becoming embarrassing

because Torment was rushed out and because Curst is a shitty padding area full of pointless encounters. why the excuses? why not the easy answer here? what's so fucking difficult about this?

WRPGs are really uninspired shit.

>it has weird shit compared to most JRPGs like calendars and trips to the cinema
You haven't played many rpgs as a whole have you because side things like that are fairly common.

>because Torment was rushed out and because Curst is a shitty padding area full of pointless encounters. why the excuses? why not the easy answer here? what's so fucking difficult about this?

it gets better with each post

you are embarrassing. why is it so important to keep the holy Torment free of criticism? when it's clearly poor quality here?

naaaahhhh FUCK OOOOOFFFFF!!!
and i thought a "movie version" of MKX was long...

>because Torment was rushed out
Maybe, maybe not. None of that has anything to do with this imaginary FPS issue you're fabricating out of thin air. Why the fuck would FPS tank during Curst, when the town areas have dozens of NPCs on screen at a time and dungeeons can similarly have dozens of creatures on screen at a time?

you're not even posting anything any more user what's up? what's wrong? is it because your holy Torment isn't as perfect as the hivemind told you?

What did you expect from PerSoyna cuc.ks? They will defend their shitty game up to the end.

Attached: 1560970189867.png (1348x1600, 804K)

I don't fucking know. I'm guessing it has to do with pathfinding calculations, but regardless the lag is normal. go fire up your own copy and try it yourself.

What game?

Pillars of eternity

JRPGs don't even deserve to have RPG in their genre description. Literally any game this days has you play a character which can level up. Only western RPGs have the true core gameplay of RPGs and the freedom that goes with it. To this day I don't understand how people can enjoy visual novels with a bit of turn based combat. You never have any freedom in JRPGs.

So why can’t we just like both?

Attached: DF107122-2B6A-4760-B6E2-B646E5D2AEA0.jpg (1370x2020, 606K)

one shit
the other one is good

fuck you user DIE

DOS2 actually manages to avoid everything this image says.

i don't even know what to post since everything is met with

>no dude trust me im right

despite you being proved wrong multiple times
i think that its fine if you enjoy spending time grinding on persona or whatever but when you are ready to back up your shit with proof and no you being "right" while amusing its not proof

lurk a bit moar dawg then come back

or keep posting because i got some good laughs outta it

what pisses me off is that apparently we have to choose one that is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT and one that is IRREDEEMABLE TRASH and we're not allowed to be nuanced in any way about it

Persoyna is shit

I dunno, I enjoy most jrpgs and wrpgs, but Yea Forums always wants to pick a fight.

Why do you think Persona is the only JRPG?

bro what's wrong? where's the argument? you're not even defending your precious Torment any more are you ok user? you wanna make it about me instead? will that make you feel better?

/thread

Reported for not being an underage faggot

Name a better one

Persona offers more freedom than the average JRPG so what is even your point?

Watch better anime.

what country are you from?

>snip
the ride never ends

Nier Automata
Resident Evil 4
Dark Souls
Shadow of the Colossus
Chrono Trigger on a SNES emulator

Yea Forums is full of autistic man children who pride themselves on the games they play because they're talentless, worthless human beings who have never achieved anything of note in real life.

fallout 2
pst
kotor 2
motb
fnv
vampyr
elex
pillars 1
all these are better in every way but combat

You mean less freedom.

post your discord i have a group of highly experienced RPG professionals and i want to debate you

>WRPGs are really uninspired shit.
Funny, I'd argue the opposite.

Persona games for example don't even let you explore the intrigue of an urban fantasy setting, for the gameplay sections they teleport you to another dimension that is literally a monster-filled maze, and the stories are generic god-killing shenanigans that you see in every jrpg. Despite taking place in modern times, you use medieval weapons. You heal deadly injuries with candy. Despite the occult theme, the spells and abilities are your cookie cutter elemental JRPG spells.There's no effort whatsoever made to create a believable urban fantasy setting that reconciles the fantastical with the mundane. The games feel schizophrenic in tone, jumping back and forth between Japanese teenage highschool drama and high fantasy dungeon crawler. It's like the developers wanted to create an urban fantasy setting, but were too lazy to flesh it out and just went with standard high fantasy tropes.

Compare that to say, like Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, which utilizes its modern-day setting in every aspect of its gameplay and narrative. E.g. since you're a vampire healing is done by feeding on enemies or NPC's or by consuming blood bags, which you can get by having an employee at the local hospital smuggle them out for you. The weapons you use aren't medieval, but modern ones like firearms and improvised tools like tire irons and baseball bats, and the people who sell them to you are criminal fencers. Instead of generic elemental spells, you hack computers and use vampiric disciplines such as mental domination or a mist form which renders you invisible. The game takes place in urban locales, not some abstract dimension, and NPCs panic and alert the cops if you reveal your vampiric nature in public, and being careless may attract the attention of vampire hunters. That's how you translate urban fantasy to a video game.

Attached: 1556652008171.jpg (220x336, 72K)

i would like to witness this pls post public ty

You need to have some imaginary person that you can hate more than yourself user...

>Persona offers more freedom than the average JRPG
>only 3 equipment options for party members
>only one character can change personas
>Dialogue does nothing to change the story or future responses
Persona 1 had more choice than 3 and beyond. Not to mention it had two different paths.

But user, I have never claimed there is a better story in gaming. I just want you to prove this is one because I haven't been convinced it is.

let's do it here anonymously. now me thesis is that everything from Curst Underground and onwards is a rushed hackjob of padding, as evidenced by poor technical performance as well as poor gameplay. Your rebuttal?

can you think of a game with a better story?

>japanese game is poignantly written, fun dialog lacking pretense
>western """"""game""""" is written with highschool tier philosophy in mind, takes itself way too seriously and parades around the illusion of choice in its writing, one of the most pretentious games ever made

>let's do it here anonymously. now me thesis is that everything from Curst Underground and onwards is a rushed hackjob of padding

The Fortress of Regrets is the best part of the game.

The Pillar of Skulls is also pure kino.

>let's do it here anonymously
bro what's wrong?
will that make you feel better?

>japanese game is poignantly written, fun dialog lacking pretense
The dialogue in Persona 5 is so bad that it literally uses non-existent words.

Attached: 1491677038890.jpg (1079x837, 399K)

t. pussy nigga

1: it would be a mess to track stuff
2:6 outta the 9 have no idea how to use chan

I've never played Planescape, I have no way to measure this. Which is why I keep asking you for proof.
>play the game
Why would I waste my time with a meme? If you can't present any arguments in defense of the game it must be bad.

unironically this

That's funny those are the only two things left that aren't Curst Underground. Also I sure hope you didn't get permanently stuck on Carceri and saved your game there cuz that was possible too! Also you forgot an argument!

>japanese game has the most basic anime plot and characters you have seen already a million times, the entire world operates om complete retardation and nothing makes sense
>western RPG game has substance, it has weight to its characters and mechanics

>torment
>mechanics
please stop

More mechanics than in JRPGs.

sure there's loads of mechanics, they're just all useless 'cuz they were grandfathered in from Baldur's Gate

stop saying "proof" you fucking cretin, you can't prove that something is the best because best is a fucking opinion not a factual claim
It is my opinion that it is the best story and don't even fucking think of saying that "you should have said "in my opinion" at the end" because "best" is ALWAYS an opinion

>posts on Yea Forums
>"no I'm not going to play the game"
like fucking clockwork
i just sit here getting baited to fucking death fuck me for actually caring about games right

Wow, it must be a really bad game and a meme for you not to defend it at all

>sure there's loads of mechanics, they're just all useless 'cuz they were grandfathered in from Baldur's Gate

Baldur's Gate unironically has better gameplay than most any jrpg I've played. You can come up with rather amusing combat strategies like:

>cast a spell that creates a sticky web on the ground, any one walking over that area will get stuck in the web and unable to move
>cast another spell to polymorph into a spider, which is naturally immune to being webbed
>walk into the webbed area and finish of the enemies, who are stuck and unable to put up a fight

I can't think of a single jrpg that allows this sort of approach to gameplay. In jrpgs gameplay seems to primarily revolve around abstract systems, usually some form of rock paper scissors centered on elemental damage. Personally I don't find this design philosophy anywhere near as entertaining or tactically engaging, but maybe I'm in the minority on that.

How do I make spells good in PT? Just switched to Mage and the limited Magic System looks crippling.

>implying I've actually played the game

Let's not pretend JRPGs have higher quality than WRPGs on average. People on here just like them more because they are easier to get into and because Yea Forums generally highly favors the anime aesthetics. If WRPGs were literally the same as they are now only the story and characters were replaced with anime aesthetics and storywriting then Yea Forums would be all over them and never touch JRPGs again.

Yet the jrpgs like that go under the radar.

attack move your party members

uh persona has status effects too. but yeah you're absolutely right that magic in D&D is stupid good.

Like what?

The difference is that Planescape Torment's only real merit is the writing, where as Persona has other things going for it as well, like the gameplay not feeling like an absolute and total chore, but just kind of sort of a chore.

>Nothing bad about anime
False

Western "writing" is shit. Kill yourself.

Kill yourself WRPG-Kun.

it's because the JRPG is written at a 4th grade level and features mostly anime trope based 'comedy' dialogue, vs the WRPG is written at an 8th grade to collegiate level.

the contemporary victims of our late-stage ZOG deliberate dumbing-down simply can't understand the latter. they don't normally read for entertainment at all, and so don't know the concept of a 'challenging' or 'difficult' read. they don't enjoy being intellectually challenged, and their vocabulary is so limited that 'boring' is simply their go-to descriptor for 'media I didn't like'.

It’s other way around on v

>WRPGs
>Intellectually challenging

Attached: ayyy so runty.png (1024x768, 1.32M)

They are hidden by default. You have to turn them on in the options to see them.

>planescape: torment, some low budget old-ass niche rpg
>voice cast consists of top-class talent like john de lancie, dan castellaneta, keith david, etc.

>persona 5, a high-profile rpg with a sizeable budget and major publisher backing
>english voice act consists of a bunch of shitty anime dub actors

Attached: 1552074775995.gif (250x188, 2.4M)

i love these threads, the autism is delicious

Attached: 078958y.png (330x290, 8K)

How dumb are you? It's not only there, it's absolutely golden.

Yee-claw!

>american voice actors saying "thou"

Attached: 1501090055105.gif (390x261, 1.81M)

Its simple, one game has a flying skull pervert as companion, and the other doesn't

Attached: Morte.jpg (786x1016, 155K)

You make a compelling case, Morte. You may contemplate it further in the Pillar.

Attached: Pillar.jpg (1280x720, 229K)

>wrpg dialogue choices
>Yes
>No (Yes later)
>Sarcastic (Yes)
>More info (Yes)

Attached: 3564682.jpg (610x343, 42K)

>Good wrp dialogue choices
>Yes
>No
>How about I just kill you?
>How about we do it this way instead (charisma check)
>Sarcastic (they'll attack you)

Attached: 1489882389832.jpg (800x600, 30K)

Good post

>Darkest Dungeon
>RPG

user, are you actually mentally disabled? Did your motger dropped you when you were a baby?
Also, Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2 fixes most of the problems described with """"""""""""""wrpgs"""""""""""""""(because hurr durr darkest dungeon is a rpg)

Why OP compares games almost 20 years apart? why not use examples from similar time frames?

>Baldur's Gate unironically has better gameplay than most any jrpg I've played
play something beyond final fantasy and pokemon then