Villain's motive and reason for his reign of terror are reasonable and even better than the hero's motive / goal

Imagine being on your 20s and watching Dragon Ball Super.

Imagine thinking it's actually better than Dragon Ball GT.

Imagine thinking someone can just "not canon" GT out of existence as if your time spent with DBGT didn't exist anymore.

>becomes a Pokemon Trainer
>Wants to liberate Pokemon and uses the Legendary Dragon to fight you

N was badass, if GameFreak directs the Gen 5 remake, then fuck

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Get mad.

The only good thing about GT was the idea about the overuse of the Dragonballs having consequences, that's it. Black was Kino and so was ToP.

He killed off most of the boys.
Retard had it coming.

Your daily reminder that Senator Armstrong did absolutely nothing wrong

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FFTA

>"hurrrr kill everybody"
>relatable
based retard OP

>He sold drugs to KIDS. He had it coming
You mean the people working for him sold drugs to kids and what kind of kids has the money to buy drugs and why would they How did they even find a dealer

Pic unrelated

She just wanted her world to not die.

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Was better in the manga.
Fuck the anime.

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He was pure shit in the manga. A jobber without the charm of charisma of real Black.

He actually won.
Raiden was acting by his own conviction take matters into his own hands... exactly the type of world armstrong was trying to create

Cringe

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>he did it all because the condom broke

Shit-tier motive. I always wanted a cute daughter.

I've never really thought about that

That's literally the point of the song and it's "YOU WERE JUST LIKE ME, TRYING TO MAKE HIISTORYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY, BUT WHOOOS TO JUDGE RIGHT FROM WRONG I THINK WE'LL BOTH AGREE" etc innit

>a jobber
No, anime Black is a jobber. The guy fused and instantly became a big gooey blob. He also didn't get an aesthetic Super Saiyajin form.
Also, anime Zamasu jobbed to fucking Trunks in the dumbest way imaginable.
Ok retard.

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Except his goal was to force his ideology on the entire country, and Raiden ain't about to do that shit. Armstrong's ideology only makes sense on an individual level, not as the basis for an entire society and government.

Trunks doing something (even if doesn't make sense) >>> more Goku wank

>aesthetic Super Saiyajin form.
He got a divine form and a corrupted form. Better than being just a muscle retard.

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The god Zamasu was kino.

>Saiyajin
faggot

Based

>everybody
not everybody, just all humans, its no different as someone wishing to kill all jews or blacks.
remember that there are aliens and different spieces on dragon ball universe, humans are not "everybody"

>"Grrrrr, I must kill all humens because they are no good"
>"I'm not bad! Ur bad!"
Oh my lord it's FF-tier villain
Wait, some FF-villains have actual motives.

Why does every character on this weabo shit look like a tranny?

>GT out of existence as if your time spent with DBGT didn't exist anymore
Good, i always wished that crap didn't exist and now i'm glad that it's nothing but a glorified fanfic.

Except the shit Trunks did was basically fucking pointless.
>THIS IS THE POWER OF HUMANS!!111!1111
>*jobs to Zamasu wallpaper*
I'm talking about Black with that quote. He had a Super Saiyajin form that looked really good in the manga.
Also, that purple corrupted form looked like garbage. It is the worst transformation next to Cell's second form.
And he wasn't a muscle retard, he was smarter than anime Zamasu by a fucking mile. Remember when Goku tried to Hakai him? He didn't just cry about it, he used his divine powers to get a human shield. When he was backed against a wall, he used the U12 time machine to just get more of himself.
The Goku Black arc in the manga is the craziest ride out of everything in Super, and the anime version is bogged down by a bunch of dogshit. It has like 2 good episodes at most.

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Cause you're blind

When people say humans in DB, they mean all intelligent creatures. When Goku is revealed to be a Saiyajin, he is called told he is "not one of this planet's humans".

>Shin on a fucking motorcycle with angry Gowasu on the back

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>literally kills millions
>asshole to everyone
>still gets to hang out with gokus fanclub
How did he get away with it

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Ok edgy meth head looking tranny.

>Characters in jojos bizarre adventure look bizarre

>he was smarter than anime Zamasu by a fucking mile.
Are you fucking kidding me? Manga was the most retarded DB villain ever. He wasted 50 minutes playing around with Goku abd Vegeta instead of just winning. 50 MINUTES. Anime was shit but it was way better than the shit show of the manga.

Became the prince of all jobbers so they stopped taking him as seriously since Goku will always keep him in check.

He didn't waste that time, he was actively trying to kill them, but Zamasu and Black weren't that strong individually (this is a major point and it makes sense).
It also gave us some absolute kino in the manga.
And even then, he would've won. He was just about to win, until Goku called Zeno, an unknown factor. That's the only reason he lost.

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>I leave a worthy successor
>you, Jack!

They look like tranny and lgbt parade, i could care less about that weabo shit and it's "eccentric" fanbase.

>Goku Black can just unlimited power ups and asspulls as shown with his final fight with Vegeta
>Decides to fuse anyways with a SS2 tier jobber
>Does nothing but job and melt afterwards
Why the fuck did he even do that?

You forgot
>You were not only one of his people, but one he knew personally and may have even loved
>Just wants to bring the real you back again

Goku will give literally anybody a free pass. The man has zero moral principles.

Zamasu lived in the second most chill universe after U7 he had no real reason to do shit other than being an edgelord, his character would have made way more sense if his saga was after the tournament of power, imagine this

>Zamasu a normal kai in training gets a request to make a team for the TOP
>He gets finds the best of his universe
>he feels like his universe is the best but quickly finds out at the tournament that his universe is not one of the top ones that get to skip the tournament
>now he actually has a good reason to question Gowasu's work
>then he sees goku defeating everyone maybe he even gets to see him tapping into UI
>and then his universe gets erased
>when he comes back he sees goku as the ultimate evil and start putting his plan to steal his body in action

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>he was actively trying to kill them
No, he was just torturing them. The difference between between regular SS blue and Zamasu was overwhelming. That was not a fight. Note how he didn't use the portal against an actual enemy (Vegito). He just used them to torture a super weakened Vegeta. Manga Zamasu was just an angry edgelord.

The English translation definitely bungled it. Ningen literally means human, but it can also be used sort of like 'people.' Goku Black intends to refer to all mortals.

Say what you will about Toyotaro but he does some nice pieces.

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Because he didn't have a real shot at actually using the portals well with Vegetto.
Did you speedread the manga?

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I'm sorry that you've been broken inside by SJWs

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Soul reaver.

>Vegito charging the big bang kamehame
>Zamasu just attack him with cubes instead of using the portals

What kind of super poachers even come to 17's island? How suicidal would you have to be?

The English translation correctly uses "mortals". At least from what I remember of the anime's subs.

Toyo ruined Zamasu vs Vegito

they do user, im not even even gonna tell you the stupid excuse of "they are actually extremely manly" that the fandom likes to shit out

a few characters in jojo are actually gay but you are forgetting that it is made by a japanese man, most of the time he makes fun of homos, it's not sjw at all, around part 3 you start seeing plenty of boobs

Because getting up close to Vegetto, even with portals, is very dangerous as shown by how quickly Vegetto cut off his arms.
It's much better to attack from a distance, and using portals just brings him closer.
*Made it better and is the reason Vegetto even appeared in the arc.

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>sees a primitive race
>They are violent and kill one another
>"These beings are disgusting and violent and commit murder so I'm going to murder them all. It's literally ok when I do it though."

Epic villain bro. Totally not retarded at all

It's not like Raiden didn't know that, the entire ending fight (and song) makes it clear they know their ideologies aren't that different at their core, and Raiden completely embraces it in the end even if he doesn't want to build the same kind of world as Armstrong (which he would be fine with since Raiden is the strongest and is engaging in absolute self-determination.)

Except his own brother of course.

>Made it better and is the reason Vegetto even appeared in the arc.
The reason was pure fanservice. He did nothing in both version. At least the anime gave people the "oh fuck veggeto found his rival" moment. Still nothing but fanservice.

Araki draws and creates characters whit fashion model magazines and sometimes greek sculpture books alongside him and the 3 gay couples that appeared on part 5 all of them meet their demise in the most brutal way possible.

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>The reason was pure fanservice. He did nothing in both version. At least the anime gave people the "oh fuck veggeto found his rival" moment. Still nothing but fanservice.
And the manga did good fanservice by having Vegetto just destroy Zamasu, because Zamasu being that powerful, makes no fucking sense at all. I'm not even one of those retarded power level fags.

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yume miru kusuri

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>Dhaos wanted to save his planet
>He needed a seed of mana from another world to do it
>The planet was too low in mana to produce a seed
>Asshole king is using all the mana like is an infinite resource
>Dhaos starts with diplomacy, when that doesn't work attack the kingdom
>Some assholes electrocuted him and put him on suspended animation
>Many centuries later some Blond asshole kid blames him for the destruction of his village even though he was in a coma at the time.
>Kills him not caring that without him his planet was doomed.

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>Zamasu being that powerful, makes no fucking sense at all
Future Zamasu just trained more. We are talking about a franchise where 4 months are enough to reach god level. That Zamasu had several years to improve.

Dhaos went psychotic and was just going to kill all the humans so the mana would make the most rapid recovery and he could get his seed and fuck off. That isn't to defend the kingdoms using mana for superweapons, but Dhaos absolutely went from 0 to full genocide much too quickly. Either way, you get him his seed and save his planet at the end, if you remember.

Except Freeza is Freeza and got interview-retconned to having Golden be close to his peak.
Also, the reason it makes no sense is because Zamasu gets his ass kicked by Goku, Vegeta and Trunks following that.
In the manga, this makes sense because Goku perfected Blue with his training and Vegeta had his little rage burst.
In the anime, Goku just throws a big Kamehameha at him and it works after Trunks and Vegeta failed with their father son attack (despite Goku being worse for wear overall)

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>Goku Black can just unlimited power ups and asspulls as shown with his final fight with Vegeta
That's just Toei, they love buffing Goku even when it's someone else using his body.

His other self was immortal so I guess he thought he'd inherit the immortality.
He seemed to really hate getting any substantial damage.
That and narcissism

Was Trunks; power up in this arc a new form like Supers Saiyan 2.5 or something or did he just get really fucking pissed and that was enough?

Yes, 4 months of training from frieza, a guy who was stronger than everyone everywhere by just existing

Ok pedro

>Top
Which was bad until the very end, one of the worst tournaments arc in anime.
Super itself feels like a dbz spanish fanfic.

I don't think it was ever explained, well outside of wanting more forms for Trunks for cards/toys.

Goku went from weaker than Raddits to stronger than the emperor of the universe in less than 6 months. Getting strong as fuck in a short time spam is common in Dragon ball.

You ignored my post that extrapolated on why Zamasu being so strong makes no sense.
See

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>3
What
I just remember the pic related one

That post was me ten years ago laughing at people watching gt in the first place

Super is some special kind of retarded

How many Levels of divinity have been passed in Dragon Ball?
Series likes to have deities in a support role.
First we had Kami.
Then we had King Kai.
Then we had the Supreme Kai.
Then we had the Old Kai.
Then it went to the Gods of Destruction with Angels being even stronger.
Currently the top god is Zeno.
Think we'll go even further beyond?

>better
No, he was a mix of Bojack with muscles of Broly and later became Meta-Cooler because Toyo is a fucking hack of "homages" that are just tracing and doing "atatatas" all the time. With Vegeta everytime he fights he traces the same fucking kicks, Moro's fight is full of that.
I am tired of people saying manga is better when that shit is still mediocre because Toyo isnt Toriyama and never will be. They need someone that know how write good fights, that stops fucking tracing, that stops using the same reaction surprised image that is traced for every fucking character, that stops this huge hard-on for Vegeta because he is the only character since Super that gets any character development while Goku is worse than his 12 yo self in DB and everyone else are just "there". ToP manga version was not only rushed but fucked over the few things the anime did right with other characters, making Roshi dodging Jiren attacks doesnt fix everything

Going back to Black and Zamasu, the best one was first part of the anime with Black and smug Zamasu(fusioned, before going Bio-Broly) in the anime. Shame, because Black seemed interesting as Zamasu, but both versions ended badly and got retarded middle way.

And this is what I am talking about. Look, it's fucking Janemba portals. Fuck Super, be anime or manga, just rip-offs of other shit they are already did in past.

She was a true hero in the Demon Path.

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Wasn't the entire reason Goku Black became a villain because he got mad that some fucking mortal powered up to the point that he could befriend a literal god?

They wouldn't have found the dealer, the dealer would have found them. Trick them into taking a sample, they get hooked, now you have lifelong customers.

There's 2.
Those two faggots from the pic and then there's Squalo and Tiziano.

Anime Zamasu a kami supremacist. Gods a perfect and powerful and mortals a dumb and weak. Then he lost to Goku and his entire world was destroyed. Manga Zamasu watched a YouTube video and went full edgelord.

>DB
>consistency

remember when Picalo was demon and not an alien.

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No. Black by itself is not an original idea, the concept of the evil goku was already did by Turles and his motivation and originin are inspired by Toyotaro AF villain (toyo works in the staff), but it introduced the first potara villain of the series.

Korin(the cat) is a deity. Zalama should also be one since he made the super dbs.
There is the Grand Kai that is a filler character, but should be canon for how awesome he was.

this is your brain on shounenshit

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>And this is what I am talking about. Look, it's fucking Janemba portals. Fuck Super, be anime or manga, just rip-offs of other shit they are already did in past.
Dragon Ball has been ripping itself off since the Piccolo Daimao arc, which ripped plot beats straight from the Red Ribbon Army arc.
Remember when Goku "died" and then had a newly found friend help him back to health so he could climb Karin Tower to get magic water to make him stronger?
The Cell arc is a mess of ripped off elements from prior arcs.
>the person who saves the day doesn't actively involve himself in the arc until he fights the main bad guy and is thus disconnected from the main conflict and lacks a personal connection with said bad guy
>a prideful Vegeta allows the main bad guy to transform, and the transformed bad guy proceeds to beat down Vegeta
>Goku is taken out of the arc early on to return later after training for a year
Don't even get me started on the movies, which ripped off plotlines from DB wholesale
>Goku and Piccolo team up against a threat that has kidnapped Gohan
>members of the Freeza Forces invade Earth and take down the Z-Senshi one by one, until Goku arrives and defeats the fodder, the bad guy causes Gohan to become an Oozaru
>Piccolo Daimao
>Freeza arc but on Earth
>Freeza arc but on Earth but on Namek
>literally just the Cell part of the Artificial Humans arc retold without Gohan getting the victory
Good thing the movies started doing some unique stuff afterwards, and then Kami no Kami happened and we got Saiyajin arc repeat and Namek arc repeat

You can be both a demon and an alien, they're not mutually exclusive. Piccolo was a full fledged demon, and Kami was a God.
Also, you can't see blood colour in black and white. Which is what the manga was.

Shadow Hearts

>First game is defeating the villain
>2nd game, find out you were the actually villains in part 1 and spend part 2 basically carrying out the villians plan from part 1 to stop an ultimate evil.

Toriyama put him in one panel of the manga because he liked him so much, so that canonized him even if it didn't fully canonize the events of the Otherworld Tournament.

The movies always seemed alternative dimensions. That never bothered me

Story always had things similar, at least ideas(like Cell vs Gohan like King Piccolo vs Kid Goku), but not exactly tracing images from the past, because Toriyama wasnt like that and he was a master at making fights with that choroegraphy of his . Toyo simply cant make fights and traces a lot which is annoying. Anime also did that especially in ToP, like Goku vs the lesbian saiyans where Goku was traced exactly like the buu saga, or how Kale was animated exactly like Broly fought in his first movie but with worse animation.
In the Moro's fight I really got annoyed how Buu started using the same move Kid Goku did(the 6 arm thing),it is ridiculous, Toyo is always doing this and cant do better than that

He is right. King Piccolo was a demon. The way Roshi told the story, how Piccolo sons looked like demons(not namekians) and how his Daimao mark was it felt like demons the way Toriyama drawn at the time.

No, what the other user was implying was that Piccolo was a demon and got retconned to an alien.
Piccolo was always both (albeit Toriyama didn't get the alien idea till near the end of the Piccolo Daimao arc), and he just stopped being a demon because he wasn't really evil anymore.

Yeah, you are right, Piccolo was both. During the tournament vs Kami it was a sign of their true origins. Even the anime got things right with being green

>He sees himself as destroying the vessels holding the fragments of his lost peoples souls hostage, bringing the pieces back together to make everyone whole again
>If you were in his position, you would do the same
>In defeating him he sees that the world is in good hands, you're whole and valid enough
>Remember us, remember that we lived
>Not just to remember him but the legacy of all of the now shattered ascians that are unlikely to ever become whole again, instead living on through the scattered remnants
There has never been a more kino moment

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Goku always cheats, he is literally that kid who makes up new powers on the spot so he can never lose.

So when's the anime getting annouced? I thought everyone agreed it would be in July?

fuck off as user said you can be a god and an alien at the same time, also the anime changes a lot of shit all the time, for starters his arms shouldn't have pink it should be yellow, you know the blood was changed because super was in a time slot that doesn't allow red blood

Because you're obsessed

While I'm sure Vegeta would've killed people anyways because Saiyans do that sort of thing, in his defense he can say that Freeza made him do it. He was conquering planets on Freeza's behalf or else Freeza would've finger-lasered him at the first sign of defiance.

what about that time he blew up the bug planet

Non-canon filler that didn't exist in the manga.

he would have given him a chance if goku had been stronger or equal to raditz at the time, remember he had to team up with piccolo to beat him

makankosappo is like kienzan, it can kill people that is just a few more levels stronger than you

I think all of the DBZ movies should be remade like the Broly movie was with this new wave of Steven Universe-style storytelling where absolutely everybody is redeemable.

THAT VIOLENCE
BREEDS VIOLENCE

>Steven Universe-style storytelling
Fuck off

But everyone isn't, this Broly is objectively not a bad person. Original Broly was a straight up monstrous asshole, nu-Broly is literally an abused caveman retard who didn't even know what water was. He was then basically cattle prodded to fight and went out of control with rage. He wasn't redeemed, he shouldn't even have been in that situation in the first place, and was saved by a 3rd party realizing everyone else was just kinda being shitbags in general.

>as if your time spent with DBGT didn't exist anymore
What time spent with GT? Are you implying I watched that trash?

Fuck off, Juan. Nobody liked GT and your time spent with it is worthless.

imo Ciocolatta should have been the one lying conscious on the autopsy table. Diavolo did not have enough presence in the series for his death to be satisfying.

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the only good thing that came our from that godforsaken trilogy.

One of the best villain" of the series by far.

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Why do south americans exclusively watch shit anime

>Anti-Black shitters clog up thread

Cope

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Filthy secondary

Urgh stop being so transphobic

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>Villain's motive and reason for his reign of terror are reasonable and even better than the hero's motive / goal
Does it count if it goes so far that it could be even said that you play as villain protagonists, and the antagonists are the true heroes. Because Final Fantasy 12 does that.

>start a movie with reviving King Kai, finally
>somehow it releases Bojack and his pirate space crew
>the tournament is hosted by Mr.Satan and everyone, even Yamcha, are back for a play because there is a rule "no transformations, no blowing things and flying allowed"
>Future Trunks gets back for the tournament and announces in the end of the movie that he is a time patrol
>after credits it shows a glimpse of Cooler talking with Freeza about the saiyans new powers, the gods, that the other universes exists and how someone like Zeno exists

I didn't really pay attention to the story of XII but liked all the side content. Are the weird glowing eyes spirit-jews supposed to be the good guys?

Isn't his motive that Goku smacked him around in a sparring match, and he threw a complete bitch fit over the fact that he'd actually have to work to be good at martial arts compared to him?

Pretty much.

>some random guy tells me if I murder ten billion people I'll be able to bring them all back + my loved one
>its okay because even though I caused shitloads of suffering far greater than I experienced it'll all fix itself
>lol oops I got pranked
I don't understand how anyone can sympathize with someone this retarded and blatantly evil.

>some random guy
It was an ancient ultra powerful relic that told him. At least from his perspective

He already had doubts about ningen, that they were savages and failures. He got mad at Goku for his manners, since in Super Goku is a manchild and the first thing Goku does is asking for a fight. Then Zamasu realizes Goku is stronger than him and gets more mad how a ningen is that strong. In the anime becomes more jealous and angry when he realizes Goku goes Blue and didnt even tried in his spar while watching youtube. Then he realizes Super Dragon Balls exist and can grant any wish, with the time ring he could do whatever he wanted and then just lost it for good. He wanted Goku's body because he knew the potential it had

>it must be true because someone important and powerful told me it is true and they surely don't have alternative interests because ???
As I said, completely retarded. Even if it were true it wouldn't be justifiable by virtually any sense of ethics, it is taking the end justifies the means to its absolute extreme. It is akin to saying that doing anything is justifiable if the problematic parts can ultimately be undone, even if it is something as inane as torturing trillions for eternities (but then undoing it all) just so that my stubbed toe never happened.

He saw a chance to get his family back, and so he took it. I don't think doing so was necessarily evil when all of the consequences of his actions would have gone away. If his plan had worked out how he had reasoned that it would, then nothing bad would have happened. Everyone would be alive, including his family. The only problem with his plan was that he was out of his mind and didn't realize it.

Doesn't he run into the Ginyu problem in the manga? If I recall, Vegeta starts kicking his ass and points out that while he might have Goku's body, he still doesn't know how to fight like him.

The power was completely real though

The prequel novel focusing on Dhaos shows that he was really left with no choice but to attack Midgard.
>try to warn the head of magitech R&D that his mana cannon will literally kill the planet
>he can sense Dhaos' alien mana, believes him to be a subterfuge agent of the demons opposing Midgard, and surprise attacks him. His qt gf takes the hit for him and loses a fucking arm
>branded an enemy of the kingdom and forced to flee as a fugitive, completely destroying any chance of peacefully dissuading them from continuing magitech development
>allies himself with the demons because it's the only way he can stop Midgard from pursuing the mana cannon
>tries to kill only the people responsible for the mana cannon but his demon subordinates are bloodthirsty dipshits
That head of magitech guy literally was the one that did everything wrong and no one kills him.

Super ruined goku's character. Buu arc was peak Goku. They should've expanded on that

I dont recall much of the manga version, while the anime watched it twice(jp and dub). In the anime Vegeta does say that, but then Black says his emotions or hatred is superior and then beats Vegeta like nothing and summons clones and weird shit happens

Worse part is that is they wont fix that. They really want to sell this image of Goku being another Luffy

>peacefully dissuading them from continuing magitech development
I never read the manga, but in the game it was more like stopping them from using it a a weapon. Dhaos didn't have a problem with peaceful magitech because apparently it's not that bad for the planet, but he tried to dissuade them from war because magitech weapons were very slowly starting to have a negative effect on the planet, and he finally just flipped his shit when he learned about the mana cannon and couldn't convince them to stop developing it because it'd kill the planet and he thus adopted an 'us vs. them' attitude and was going to get rid of humanity before they could kill the tree.

>Super ruined goku's character.
By making him consistent with his development from DB up to the Cell games? Buu arc was wildly out of character.

Pic unrelated

Based

He starts losing and then gets beaten and he gets a saiyan boost and that boost let's him meld better with goku's body and he starts kicking ass

kill yourself

I have a theory about Cell that may be unpopular. I think that even if Cell came back to life and was freely given the opportunity to train for as long as he wanted that he wouldn't get any stronger. I think that Cell's absolute potential was reached when he regenerated and gained that power buff that Saiyans get from surviving a mortal wound.

He'd just stay at "Close to Super Saiyan 2"-strength forever, but I think that's ok and it would make for a hilarious story for any Dragon Ball Super special that may come out in the future.

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>Goku Black
The fact that people like this character hurts my brain.

Why would he be incapable of ever getting stronger? He's made up of the genetic material of a whole bunch of people who get stronger by training