Where did it all go so wrong

Sonic was always "2 kool 4 skool". His whole point was to be a cooler version of Mario.
Have you not seen the AoSTH cartoon?

No one complained about the artstyle until much later.
Everyone complained they turned the gameplay into 3 sametype in Adventure 2 because people liked Adventure 1 style (minus the fishing) so not sure what you're talking about here.

He's probably a meme spewing zoomer, don't mind him. Majority of kids on here were not even conceived or know of AoSTH, they mostly know of SATAM

The difference is, classic Sonic is cool, and he doesn't need to say anything to be cool. Modern Sonic acts cool and fails with constant quipy dialogue that was 10 years out of date 5 years before it was written. I don't know why you think American cartoons are a good example of how Sonic should be characterized, even if I liked SatAM

It's about more than art style

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Sonic team trying desperately to make the series "mature" when nothing will change the fact it's a blue cartoon hedgehog stopping a fat man with a ginger mustache.

I honestly believe this is the reason why Miyamoto doesn't want Mario to have a serious story and messes with the Paper Mario games. He doesn't want Mario to go down the same cringe inducing route.

Also Sonic team can't do 3d for shit and every time it is a humongous embarrassment. Even compared to budget 3d shovelware and indie games, the games are a joke.

> but everybody considers it like a 6/10 anyways because of the werehog
And rightfully so. Unleashes is a werehog game with an occasional minigame where you actually get to play as Sonic like the cover implies.

We're never going to have a game that is mostly 3D speed levels because of the incredible amount of resources they require. That's why these modern games all have something that slows the action down, whether it be changing the perspective to 2D, or coming up with some gay alternate play style.

You're not contradicting user

Giving the games some "epic" story and the characters VA was a mistake. And Sonic doesn't translate well to 3D. Should have either kept it 2D (which by the success of Mania indicates it would have worked), or just changed the genre to racing altogether.

Shadow saved the series

sa2

>AoSTH
Made by Americans, as canon to the lore as the Mega Man or Street Fighter cartoons are to their respective franchises.

non-meme answer

anyone who says Adventure 1 or 2 is a seething classicfag

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>It's about more than art style
I don't know which user you were in that reply to tell you how wrong you are.

>Giving the games some "epic" story
All the major Sonic games have had an epic story, they were just told a different way. Are you literally stupid? Do you not understand the whole point of the chaos emeralds? Or the time stones?
>characters VA was a mistake
It's not that big of a deal, and the lip syncing was bad because it was meant for Japanese audio. Yeah, because just Sonic is known for bad lip syncing right? Shut the fuck up.
> Should have either kept it 2D (which by the success of Mania indicates it would have worked), or just changed the genre to racing altogether.
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 did extremely well. So not sure why you think you know what you're talking about there captain hindsight.

Heroes is a better game than the Adventure games due to only having one shit level instead of 2/3 of the game being shit

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I'm the user arguing that Modern Sonic and everything he's packaged with is an abortion, from his more ugly design to his 10x lamer personality. That doesn't have anything to do with Adventure's art style itself, the promo arts for those games are actually quite good.

Shadow the Edgehog killed Sonic franchice

>Sonic
>canon
this does not compute. Sonic was designed with the west in mind. Sega of America made Sonic come off as having a mohawk with that very reason. Eggman was Robotnik in the states. AoSTH is the result of making a story around a vague tale in the Sonic Bible. And if you do not know of the Sonic Bible, you should not bother replying anymore.

>Sonic was made to appeal to the west so all outsourced western media is the true sonic!
Based retard

pfffft

Yet Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 did a lot better in sales. You have a niche opinion on this.

Since the first game.
Mario already runs fast enough for the average person to react in time to danger. Sonic is too fast but it's at the detriment of gameplay. Running on rails in audiosurf-like sections is boring compared to free-roaming Mario. Sonic was a character created to show off the Genesis hardware and that's it. Even Banjo has more possibilities than that.

Elaborate, humor me please. What is a "true Sonic"? There is no "official Sonic". Have you not realized that yet? Do you not see the multiple versions of him? The multiple comics? The multiple manga? The OVA? AoSTH? SATAM? Sonic X? The live movie coming out? You think there's an actual fucking Sonic lore? Are you actually fucking kidding me right now?

And? They still lead to the state of the series today. Battle Network 4 was the bestselling BN game, Other M was the bestselling Metroid, Resident Evil 5 was the bestselling RE. What do sales have to do with quality?

>Where did it all go so wrong
Yuji Naka left, then Sonic '06 was rushed out.

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This thread is a perfect example of what went wrong, and where and when. It's the lack of consistency. No one agrees about which parts of the franchise are good, or even about which parts of a particular game are good. Sonic Team doesn't know how the fuck to appeal to anyone because they spent the last 30 years creating schisms in their fanbase and now they don't have a clue as to what kind of game could please the whole fanbase. Because there really isn't one. But they try to shoot down the middle anyway, that being all they can do, and it ends up satisfying no one.

Sonic Adventure 1 had a shitty 3D era that made SEGA try and amp the whole dark and edgy thing with shitty gameplay. Adventure 2 fixed most of the issues with Adventure 1 on gameplay side, but still with the edgy story.

Because of edgy being popular, they made Ow the Edge which made everyone laugh so then they made a reboot to try and make the whole series gritty because gritty sells right? They rushed it and had no idea what they were doing even when they showed it off at E3 2005.

Since then it's mostly been off and on with how they view the series. With Unleashed-Mania they wanted to reinvent the series and get away from the deep and edgy stories from Adventure which went well for the most part, but then the dumbass in charge of Sonic Team thought that people didn't like that so went back to the dark and edgy story for Forces and had to include Classic Sonic because of Mania.

Basically, just the dumbasses in charge thinking they know Sonic better than the people who've been playing the games for most of their lives.

Can't wait for Sonic to get reinvented back to the Unleashed to Mania era again.

I also want to fuck Rouge.

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All the levels in Heroes are shit because the game controls like a slippery pile of shit compared to the right precise controls of Sonic/Shadow in SA1/2

>Adventure 2 fixed most of the issues with Adventure 1 on gameplay
Reverse. Everything that SA2 did was just a worse version of something SA1 did.

Sonic is Sonic as he appears in Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3&K, Mania, and all related art/production materials for those games. The closest an outside source has come to capturing the core tone of Sonic is probably the OVA and even that is off color. Don't get autistic about this, I know that's asking a lot from a Sonic fan but please try to refrain from getting obtuse and claiming all takes on Sonic are valid.

Mega Man died for a long time because Mega Man is actually a niche series and no one wanted to fucking admit that. People only got butthurt because they all rode on the "omg! a gaming icon is gone!" mentality. If you ever looked up achievements or trophies, you'll EASILY see the actual percentage of who actually does what. And guess what? Not many has done jack shit.
Other M was horrible but that was in hindsight due to Metroid having a good reputation and it's name alone is enough for people to buy the titles (can't say the same about Mega Man before 9)
Resident Evil 5 deserves being the best selling, it's actually a fun game and I will fight you on this and am completely prepared to do so.

> the game controls like a slippery pile of shit
No it doesn't and even if it did, it's not exactly a game that requires precise control anyway. Shit, I can't think of an actual 3D platformer that does require precise control. Certainly SA1 and 2 don't.

It's funny to me that you bitch about the modern art style when that melty abomination in the OP was the mascot for the most successful period of the franchise. If the games are good nobody cares what the character looks like.

I'm arguing the opposite, maybe you should law off the trigger and actually read before throwing around the meme words of autism.

you being born

So you're saying that instead of having 2 stories with different characters being chosen for certain levels, you'd rather have to play 8 different characters in mostly the same levels to get the ending?

>I can't think of an actual 3D platformer that does require precise control.
Are you fucking kidding me right now? Why would you admit you didn't play Sonic Unleashed Werehog stages where you had to lighterally TIGHTROPE across beams?

So Sonic CD is where thing started to go wrong

I'm actually on your side in regards to RE5, it's an extremely fun co-op TPS but a lot of RE fans consider it a bad entry in the Resident Evil series at large and it's easy to see why. The others were just easy examples off the top of my head that were bad games with outstanding sales relative to the other games in their series, because my overall point is just that sales don't equate to quality. It's like saying Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey are peak literature.

>which went well for the most part
>Lost World
>All the Sonic Boom games
>The Deadly Six
>Pontaff Writing
Outside of Ow the Edge, 06, and Forces, Pre-Boost Era stories were about as "deep and edgy" as an average superhero/action movie.

>You think there's an actual fucking Sonic lore?
The autists at Sonic Team certainly tried

No, when SoJ created Sonic.
The only people that matter most were the original 3 creators of Sonic + the westerners that did the redesign of Sonic in the OP (otherwise we would have had MrNeedleMouse design instead). It was when SEGA pushed advertisements to be "GOTTA GO FEST" that tricked retarded gaijins into thinking what is the result of Boostshit being Sonic instead of momentum platforming, plus all that forced system shilling elements like fishing and shooting simulators being added into the Sonic canon, ruining all the time that could have been spent polishing Sonic's core gameplay. Not to mention how most of Sonic's bullshit was thanks to SEGA being a jew company only caring about ad revenue. They never cared about Sonic, the team members did for years but they abandoned all hope.

andrearitsu.com/2015/08/01/just-how-did-sonic-2006-happen/
This right here, especially after Boom and Forces, proved Sonic was the best idea ever forced into mediocrity thanks to his shitty ass company. Fuck SEGA.

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>That's why these modern games all have something that slows the action down, whether it be changing the perspective to 2D, or coming up with some gay alternate play style.
And that's why 3D Sonic will never be good.

Lost World was good, just not a good Sonic game.

Yes because
>every single character in SA1 handles better than they do in SA2 regardless
>The game doesn't constantly force me to switch to a character I don't want to play as
>I don't really give a fuck about the true ending, both final bosses are garbage, as is the story

I did play it. It's not precise, you just got to tilt with the right timing.

like every other long running series it went to shit as soon as 7th gen consoles hit. people only point out sonic since it happened sooner than the others

>a lot of RE fans consider it a bad entry in the Resident Evil series at large and it's easy to see why.
Fuck the old 1-3 of Resident Evil. Fuck the camera, fuck the tank controls. That trilogy was not worth anyone's time. 4 is when the series got actually fun, 5 improved on it AND made it so another friend can join. RE2 remake is a great reinvention because even they're going "you know, that camera and tank controls is kinda annoying".
>It's like saying Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey are peak literature.
Not even remotely the same thing we're discussing but okay?

How does that make them autists? Are you saying that companies who make a story in a video game are autists? Can you be anymore fucking vague? Why even bother replying if you're not going to explain yourself?

>And Sonic doesn't translate well to 3D
False

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>I did play it. It's not precise, you just got to tilt with the right timing.
You are a fucking liar and I know that now. Stop talking out of your ass. Those tight rope sessions required patience and accuracy. You can lie to everyone else in this thread about your accomplishments, but I know and you know that you're a fucking liar.

That looks shite

imo i thought sonic 3 was the peak of the series

Sega is more clueless than sonic team
just hire different people or sell off the fucking series

>Fuck the old 1-3 of Resident Evil. Fuck the camera, fuck the tank controls
And now you lost me. I'm not reading anything else you said or derailing this thread with an argument about classic RE because I doubt you'd care to see my wall of text defense for the validity of tank controls and fixed camera. I just feel sorry you missed out on great games because of your biases, REmake is a masterpiece

Regardless of whether I'm lying or not, that shit isn't actual platforming anyway

I don't understand what's so difficult about designing a normal ass Mario/Banjo/Spyro 3D platformer where your character just happens to move fast. That was the design philosophy behind the original, a 2D platformer where your character moves fast. It had loops and pipes and shit, but they could just as easily incorporate ramps and such into a 3D game, half-pipes you use to build up momentum and reach higher areas like in Metroid Prime. Make Sonic's default movement speed as fast as the charging in Spyro or the Talon Trot in Banjo, make the levels spacious enough to accommodate this without being barren wastelands, fuck man it doesn't sound hard.

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Sega of Japan. everything bad that happened with the franchise is thanks to SoJ. From '06's dev hell, that stupid contract with Nintendo that ruined any potential RoL had and everything about Forces, these morons don't know jack shit about the franchise.

Wrong the comics did that years before 3D Sonic was even an idea.

You can reply if you want, it just boils down about me having a personal preference when it comes to gameplay. I think puzzles were also fucking stupid. I just simply could not stand the trilogy and I tried all 3. I also had a problem with Silent Hill 1, 2 and 3. In fact, I don't even like Silent Hill. I HATE that kind of camera angle and I know RE and SH aren't the same, just thought I'd throw that in. It's about personal preference really.

>it's not actual platforming anyway
Okay and now this makes it pretty clear you're just being a piece of trolling garbage.

>Do you not understand the whole point of the chaos emeralds?
To just be a collectible to unlock "god mode", like Mario's Starman/Cape Feather or Mega Man's Rush Suit? It wasn't plot important until SK at best, and that's only as a bonus ending to give the player something extra for playing the Blue Sphere levels.

Sonic didn't need these mcguffins to beat the game until SA1, which did away of them being actually collectible and just because plot armor shit. Heroes had it a bit better but fucked it up with shitty ass gameplay + forcing all 4 teams to be played through instead of the one (Sonic) playthrough like in S3K.

It's honestly the one thing Kishitmoto era Sonic did right, every game he directed doesn't have SS be the fucking final fight, changing the gameplay entirely all for muh epic sauce. Too bad he's a lazy hack that reuses his same boss fight since Black Knight.

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>fuck man it doesn't sound hard
Well? Where's your 3D Sonic game user?

>instead of 2/3 of the game being shit
The entire gameplay was dogshit. If it was SA2 Sonic gameplay 1-to-1 (or better, SA1 Sonic 1-to-1), Heroes indeed would have been the best 3D game in the series, sans making it only needed to play one team to beat the game, not all 4.

Is there a slope there or is Sonic just running up a wall?

Someone didn't read the manuals.
>Sonic didn't need these mcguffins to beat the game until SA1
Wrong, Sonic always needed the "mcguffins" to not get the "try again" at the end of the credits. Sonic 3 and Knuckles Doomsday Zone isn't even reachable unless you unlocked the emeralds and the super emeralds to become Hyper Sonic. Sonic CD gives you the bad ending unless you got all the time stones. Want to keep being wrong? I'm enjoying proving how stupid and ignorant you are.

I would say Utopia is on the right track, but then 'll just get
>Utopia
>good

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I don't play fan games so I wouldn't know if Utopia is good or not.

>Okay and now this makes it pretty clear you're just being a piece of trolling garbage.
What about walking on tightropes involves jumping on platforms? Jack shit, that's what.

There is literally nothing wrong with Heroes gameplay other than the rail grinding levels and the special stages. If you're gonna bitch about the controls while defending SA2 Sonic/Shadow controls, you're a hypocrite.

Ken Penders.

>What about walking on tightropes involves jumping on platforms? Jack shit, that's what.
It's called platforming, you know, that thing you said it's not? You stupid fuck.

I miss him, bros

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not him but
straight up, the team mechanic was integrated poorly. and there is no need for the stupid level shit. SA1/2 have pretty responsive controls. Its been a while since playing heroes but i dont remember having an issue with the movement really. more of the level design, story and poorly implemented mechanics coupled with glitches.

A thousand times this.
>never going to see Shade again because of Penders whining.
>Those weird 25 years later stories that came off like weird deviant art fanfic.
>Stupid fucking ant
>Those love stories
>Julie-Su
>That fucking weird 48 page special that had Spawn, MAXXX, Savage dragon with Sonic characters and his OC character.
God, I wish I could kill that cringe lord.

He'll be back in 2027.

How about we post some Sonic bangers
youtube.com/watch?v=-7WQn-SXYZ4&list=PLvNp0Boas721Cm9CWT9eaSq_JxA3f_NAr&index=6

I guess i've been on the internet so long that a whole new era of people that grew up on shit like Colors are now shitposting. Its really easy to tell how much this fanbase has change when you see just how many fucking buzzwords and bullshit they use.
If you want a answer from someone that has been playing every game on release since the first game it would probably have to be Shadow. Sa1 and 2 have early 3d jank but the gameplay of all the characters fits the classic philosophy of momentum and they both were pretty mindblowing at the time of release keeping Sonic's image as a leading figure in AAA releases and Heroes while a shit ton worse still had this to a certain extent, Shadow was the first game to truly throw away the classic gameplay and 06 cemented this. Boost is fucking garbage but I will admit seeing Unleashed and its graphics for the first time was a cool experience. I left the franchise for more than 10 years but Mania pulled me back.

I'd be angry at him for just taking the money and running, but that's basically the Yea Forums way, fucking with autists. If I was making content for all you faggots and I could get way with taking your money and not giving anything in return, I'd probably do it.

Sonic 1 is where things started to go

Nice shitpost nigger
Parkouring. Aka, doing Sonic Lost World, but with naturally built up momentum instead of scripted shit.

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>All the major Sonic games have had an epic story
There's a difference between a game of a completely different genre trying to ape the success of FFVII with corny ass CG cutscenes and an unnecessary open world and a game where the story is subtle and told through murals on the background in temples and shit

>It's not that big of a deal
If you don't think the VA and dialogue in 3D Sonic was cringe, you cannot possibly be older than 11 years old

>Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 did extremely well
If Sonic Mania had been the DC launch title, it would have done better than SA1 did

I don't see how it was poorly implemented, though I do agree on the level system being unnecessary. The level design usually perfectly complemented the team system, with the obvious exceptions of the rail levels and the casino levels. They shouldn't have had that gimmick shit without getting the main game straight first, but it's enjoyable when you do get to use it. Far less cumbersome than the treasure hunt or mech levels if you ask me

That looks pretty annoying you would always be going up walls when you don't want to. Hell that even happens alot in Lost World and they added a button to prevent it.

>If you don't think the VA and dialogue in 3D Sonic was cringe, you cannot possibly be older than 11 years old
t.18 year old

>turns a fun and lighthearted comic for kids into an autismo cringefest
>instead of burying it forever and going back to basics it entrenched itself into the franchise to this day
I remember checking out when Knuckles completely took over the comic. If i remember correctly, his backstory was that his father tried to microwave him and at one point her fused with the master emerald and was unironically green for like 50 chapters.

>If Sonic Mania had been the DC launch title, it would have done better than SA1 did
You are fucking delusional and your underage is showing. At the time of Sa1's release every franchise was making the jump to 3D and the public couldn't give a shit about 2D

>Someone didn't read the manuals.
Nigger I will slit your fucking thoat if I have to here this fucking shitpost one more fucking time.
If you simply beat the ending of the game, you beat the fucking ending of the game. Sonic fucking 1 didn't even HAVE Super fucking Sonic, nor CD, and you're telling me, this has always been the case?
What about 3D Blast? Or the Game Gear games?

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anyone know where to find that shitty jet set radio inspired sonic fangame with the models that slightly float above the ground?

>There is literally nothing wrong with Heroes gameplay
Fuck you bitch, I hate it, SA1/2 was better. Get fucked. At least I can ignore the summersault issues and not use spamdashing as an argument, the GENERAL movement of Heroes fucking sucks black dick compared to SA1/2.

>instead of burying it forever and going back to basics it entrenched itself into the franchise to this day
It couldn't be helped. Once they got rid of him, they knew his stuff still had fans, and so they couldn't get rid of it, just minimize the damage. At least the artwork got better after he left, some of the Penders era comics have absolutely fucked proportions on the characters, way worse than what people who complain about "modern Sonic" talk about

The only way to make things right is to go 2D only from this point forward. 3D Sonic is something Modern Sonic Team or anyone at Sega has the talent for. Majority of Sonic’s 2D entries have done better critically and I feel a decent bit of people would agree he works best in 2D.

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I'm not sure about the exact count but yeah, the green phase went on for a while. Knuckles ended up having a backstory bigger than another other character.

Did you not see the ending to those games were? To be fair I don't know about the game gear games. But to say you "beat the game" and got Try Again? You are fucking casual bro.

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>When they went 3d

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It's only when going straight towards a wall, only head on.

The transition to 3D. Sonic Team never actually figured out how to make Sonic's gameplay work in 3D, so they just covered that up with set pieces and (admittedly pretty good) rock music. Style over substance can work, but only if you can actually maintain an entertaining style. I think after a while, people went from thinking Sonic was cool to thinking it was silly. Games like Shadow the Hedgehog really didn't help either. Nothing says lame quite like an anthropomorphic hedgehog using realistic guns, swearing, and having melodramatic character moments. It was something straight out of a deviantArt profile and it caused the scales to fall from everyone's eyes. After that, Sonic as a series wasn't cool, it was just lame.

>This many bad opinions
Sit on your hands, they're not doing you any good here. And that's me replying to all 3 things.

>If Sonic Mania had been the DC launch title, it would have done better than SA1 did
It would have been fucking torn to shreds. Nobody gave a damn about 2D back then.

>The only way to make things right is to go 2D only from this point forward.
This is how you kill a franchise. Dumb phoneposter

>so they just covered that up with set pieces and (admittedly pretty good) rock music
And now I stop taking this comment seriously.

>and got Try Again
It's called replaying the fucking game. Like, what you're MEANT TO FUCKING DO, in a Sonic game?
Fucking hell I want all Zoomers dead, they simply can't understand arcade era gaming, which is what SEGA specialized the most at.

When all the good developers left and worked for Nintendo

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>This is how you kill a franchise
Yet, Kirby and Donkey Kong are just fine doing it in 2D, you cum guzzling retard.

I disagree heavily. it looked clunky, some of the mechanics for teams specifically were just poorly thought out and thats it. they became nothing more than things you didnt do unless you were required to to progress. enemies having health is a poor choice in a game where you are meant to keep moving.

The treasure hunt levels had a single gimmick and stuck to it well in my opinion. But I'm also that one fag that enjoyed Amy's levels in SA1.

Most people consider Gamma's levels and Eggman's levels to be pretty good. I dunno about tail's levels but i didn't really enjoy those. Gamma's levels I think were better and they should have kept the idea of movement and flow with a timer counting down instead of a standard timer like other levels.

2 different sonic cartoons running at the same time, 1 kind of good but with lots of furservice and 1 so retarded you'd need to be on the spectrum to enjoy

>Nobody gave a damn about 2D back then.
Yeah, That's totally why Mega Man X died over Mega Man Legends, yes?

Sonic Advance came out in the same time frame, but two years later and still sold extremely fucking well

>b..but it wasn't on console!

You're a brainlet if you think it matters. 2D never went out of vogue. Dipshit graphicswhores like yourselves have been a pox on gaming since back in the day though

>Style over substance can work, but only if you can actually maintain an entertaining style
Sonic series has always been style over substance. There are no games in the series that require any kind of thought or effort to complete. This is why I can't take fans of the original 2D games seriously, or people who hate Sonic 4 seriously, or most fans of the franchise in general seriously. They just make autistic arguments about "I prefer THIS kind of physics over THAT kind of physics" when almost every game works fine and is easy to complete with the physics engine it has

>Gets angry when he had to re-play the games.
No, you just suck. I was raised on arcades, Sonic was a game where if you didn't suck, you beat the game with all emeralds and replaying was not needed. I knew this. In fact, it became too tedious that Sonic 3 had that lovely save function, so people would want to actually get the emeralds. So you can dry your manchild tears.
>Kirby and Donkey Kong are doing just fine.
I don't believe that. Donkey Kong has very few titles compared to other Nintendo franchises. I rarely hear Kirby making any decent amount of sales. Can you show me the numbers? Or just talking out of your ass?

>they became nothing more than things you didnt do unless you were required to to progress.
This 1000x. Every game that does this always be hated on. Tools are meant to be an OPTION, not a mandatory check list. The best games in any series has always been on the teeter of "exploration" because it makes the game more fun.

Just imagine Mario World were you HAD to use the Cape Feature over miles of lava just to reach Bowser's door?

Yes, and then Legends died because nobody fucking cared. See how that works?

>so retarded you'd need to be on the spectrum to enjoy
It was just trying to be a cartoon user, why so much anger? Not everything had a dark edgy story back then.

>>Gets angry when he had to re-play the games.
Never said this underaged bigot. Quit twisting the script towards you, I played S3K for 3 years straight while SA1/2 pass me by. And years later I still play those games over most 3D ones.

>Because Shadow's biological dad is a demon-like alien
Black Doom wasn't in SA2

>I rarely hear Kirby making any decent amount of sales.
>sales
What is wrong with you retards and sales? Sales mean fuck all if the game is fucking dog shit. Sonic 06 is a prime example of this and will never be wiped from anybody’s memory any time soon. Brand reputation matters more than anything and having a good game is much more favorable than having a shitty one that sells.

>Yes, and then Legends died because nobody fucking cared.
False, retard. Capcom didn't care, not the niche fanbase that did.

Point is, X kept getting games despite being 2D, because people still fucking loved them. It was around the time they when 2.5D ironically when X fucking died. Partly because of how retarded the stories starting getting too.

No one was buying a fucking console 2D game back in those days you fucking retard. 2D games sold well on gameboy because it was like having a snes and genesis in your pocket and thats how they marketed it. You are sound like you weren't alive during those times.

>having a good game is much more favorable than having a shitty one that sells.
God I wish Pokefags understood this. Fuck I hate modern socialites and the corporate dicksucking.

>I played S3K for 3 years straight while
Lol, wait, it took you 3 years to 100% S3&K?
>And years later I still play those games over most 3D ones.
I'm not getting your point. You just sound bitter and assuming I'm in my 20's. Unless you're past mid 30's, you're not older than me. I know exactly what it was like gaming in the 90's. I already said I was in arcades daily. Sonic games did not have an arcade mentality. Arcades were designed to take quarters (Tokens). Sonic 1 and 2, didn't really matter if you got the emeralds. Don't act like they were a big deal, I didn't even know Sonic 1 only had 6 of them til around the internet became more of a thing around 1999.

>Sales mean fuck all if the game is fucking dog shit.
You can't be this retarded sales are the only thing that matters.

>enemies having health is a poor choice in a game where you are meant to keep moving.
And throughout the majority of the game, you don't have to kill enemies to progress, and even where you need to, you can generally one or twoshot most enemies, and where you can't, that's what the team blast is for. Granted, I don't like using flight formation in most cases, but it is very good at killing large groups of enemies very quickly at level 3. And again, it's still less cumbersome than locking you into a shit playstyle for an entire fucking level.

>The treasure hunt levels had a single gimmick and stuck to it well in my opinion.
They're literal RNG simulators. You have to pray that you're looking in the right spot.

The shooting levels are okay at best and absolutely do not belong in a Sonic game in any capacity

when xtreme got cancelled

C'mon, AOSTH didn't have THAT much furshit.

>occasional minigame where you actually get to play as Sonic like the cover implies.
it has multiple day acts + DLC acts, if you include replayability to perfect a stage, it should balance out to be around the same playtime as the tedious werehog stages

>You can't be this retarded sales are the only thing that matters.
>sales are the only thing that matters
I’m convinced salesfags are mentally deficient.

>Sega a failing publishing company that needs all the money it can get
>LOL SALES DONT MATTER IDIOT JUST MAKE ME GOOD GAMES
Yeah you are truly fucking retarded if Sonic does not sale you do not get anymore games.

No, but it was explained later on.

Let me make this easy for you: If the game does well...it's going to more than likely have a sequel. The sequel will garner more attention. More attention means more sales. IF the series does bad usually, they'll not bother and go towards something else. Money is all these companies care about.
Companies don't give a fuck about your loyality. They care if the public will buy their product new so they can get profit. They don't give a fuck if you bought it second hand because they get 0 profit off that.

>niche fanbase that did
Exactly, niche doesn't make them good money. They didn't see the point in something only a small percentage cared about.

>Point is, X kept getting games despite being 2D, because people still fucking loved them.
And yet X died too, what does that tell you?

>Partly because of how retarded the stories starting getting too.
No one was buying Mega Man games for their stories. No one.

>And throughout the majority of the game, you don't have to kill enemies to progress,
Why do Heroesfags always spout this lie? Its not fucking true unless you glitch through walls and doors.

>Lol, wait, it took you 3 years to 100% S3&K?
I'm going to assume you're baiting now. No, retard, I REPLAYED S3K for years on end because of how addicted I was with the game. Beat it muitle times, got all Super Emeralds on every campaign, not because the game "needed me" to do so, but because I wanted to because of the fun collecting the mcgiffins, giving me more excuses to keep replaying the game

Beating the game was simply Death Egg, as the game restarts to beginning again unless you do have all emeralds, which then unlocks the bonus Doomsday Zone afterwards, which only SONIC has, so it's not mandatory for Tails/Knuckles.

In other wise, get fucked, retarded underaged bastard.

SaTAM is actually pretty terrible and boring but it gets a free pass from people that want muh sERiOuS SAWNIK and furries that lust for Sally and Bunny.

AoStH is just aping Looney Tunes, but it can still catch you off guard with a decent joke or character moment.

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Off yourself zoomer.

You are the underage faggot that does not understand the situation Sonic as a franchise is in. Stop projecting

Combination of trying to put it into 3D and refusing to admit that that was a mistake, combined with the fanbase being the worst people on earth.

>And yet X died too, what does that tell you?
It's not dead because it's getting a 9th entery?
>>No one was buying Mega Man games for their stories. No one.
X games, yes. Classic games, no.
The among of autism around Legends' lore proves you're retarded.

>Sega a failing publishing company that needs all the money it can get
Sega wouldn’t be in this situation if they made QUALITY PRODUCTS you cock munching retard.
>Companies don't give a fuck about your loyality.
They will when customers get fed up with your shitty products. Got people cashing out of this franchise because of shit like Forces and Boom. You’re not gonna keep consistent sales with shitty products.

>It's not dead because it's getting a 9th entery?
Haven't you heard we are just getting a shitty mobile game. The dream and the franchise is dead user...

This

>No one was buying a fucking console 2D game back in those days you fucking retard

>Every SNK game for fucking ever like Sam Showdown, KoF, Metal Slug, etc
>Odin Sphere
>Marvel Vs. Capcom 2
>Street Fighter 3
>Contra: Shattered Soldier
>Ikaruga

I can name dozens more, suck my dick dude

The only correct answer.
Sonic unironically "died" alongside Sega itself after the Dreamcast disaster

Mr. Needlemouse is where things started to

First of all, if you're older than me. You should act your age and stop coming off like an angry little child. It's embarrassing and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Secondly, you never said you replayed S3K for three years. Maybe you should focus on proof reading your work before submitting it so people don't get the false impression you are trying to convey.
Third, I was talking about Sonic 1 & 2, Sonic 3 & Knuckles could only be truly beaten is if you get to Doomsday Zone, which I'm sure you knew that....which is why I mentioned only 1 and 2 previously.
Fourth, your closing statement and your reddit spacing is cringy. Tone down the anger old man, wouldn't want you crying to your poor mother. Act your age and be more decent. I expect the zoomers around here to meme spew and shitost, not someone who claims is my age (or older)

SatAM gets a pass because it's closer to Sonic's concept in tone dude. This is a series about a hippie hedgehog fending off an industrialist that galvanizes planets and stuffs critters into machines to power them, I don't know where you get off criticizing SatAM for being "serious sawnik" when the series is exactly that. Just look at Sonic CD, all the imagery and the music of the Bad Future levels and Eggman taunting you to your face if you failed by the time you get to Metallic Madness. Eggman was even designed to look impassive, mechanical and ominous, in the old games he only shows emotion when taking damage and that's purposeful design to contrast with Sonic.

Despite the obvious liberties, SatAM is pretty faithful.

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>Sega wouldn’t be in this situation if they made QUALITY PRODUCTS you cock munching retard.
This is not true at all if Sega would have sat around making 2D games over and over the franchise would have died by the mid 00s. Mania the fucking revival of Classic Sonic after 20+ years only sold just over a million. Meanwhile even fucking garbage games like 06 can do that. People want new shit no stale boring repeats.

The fact that the highest grossing Sonic game was never SA1/2, and Generations even outsold SA1/2 thanks to the PC/Steam version?
If it didn't become aparent to you, Mario and Sonic sales 10 million + copies compared to Sonic's 1-4 mill (on average. 2 mil) copies? Sonic hasn't EVER averaged what Sonic 2 did since, even though that was thanks to it being bundled with the Genesis. By your shit logic, Sonic was and has always been, niche, despite being more popular than fucking Mickey Mouse around the time Sonic 2 dropped.

>Thinks Sonic is a hippie
Sonic is literally a punk, how did you not know this?

>Listing fighting games
You can't be this delusional
Also the other games you listed sold like dogshit except ikaruga maybe

>im-fucking-played Sanic would have been better of with OR without story, with OR without other character and wether it is in 2D or 3D

Did you all forget Sonic the Hedgehog 4? Or Forces compared to Lost World (edgy vs. silly)? Sonic literally has become a revolving door for SEGA's new devs to fuck around, they simply don't have the actual talent to make good games, period. Hell, from what I remember, folks were actually somewhat hype for Forces and Infinite because it went back to the somewhat edgier phase, when the end result was anything BUT edge. They instead played it completely safe, Infinite and the gem were underutilized, they did nothing with what they promised. It wasn't shit because it was edgy, it is shit because it is utterly mediocre, and not in a memey way.

It is pretty fucking telling that the only relatively well made games in recent times weren't made by SEGA.

>Slippery pile of shit
The ps2 version is dogshit dummy why did you pick it up
GC and PC are alright

>Haven't you heard we are just getting a shitty mobile game.
And yet Mega Man 11 still happened, which means Mega Man itself isn't dead, just X is the only one coming back to the spotlight slowly. Meanwhile Legends is still fucking dead, for someone to claim 3D was better, that should have been the main shift of Mega Man since its existence since 64.

>SATam
>Faithful
>Tails isn't a mechanic and can't fight
>Eggman's robots are boring as fuck
>Eggman himself is boring and generic
>Sonic has a princess tell him what to do
>no Emeralds
>the setting is fucking dry and has no colors

Fuck off

I think this thread proves that Sonic was never good

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>moving goalposts

>And yet Mega Man 11 still happened, which means Mega Man itself isn't dead,
And the sales were disappointing. Megaman is my favorite franchise of all time but its fucking dead.

That was literally a single instance. Every other game aside from 06 portrays Eggman as a cackling manchild and Sonic as just not really giving a shit or taking anything seriously.

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Most of these also are Capcom, too. Seems like with quality 2D games, comes quality fans supporting it. What does that make you think, zoomers?

when the went 3D

Sorry you're a soft little baby bitch when you're posting on Yea Forums. Grow up and grow some fucking spine.

No you are fucking deluded a platforming mascot and the fighting game genre is completely fucking different. Look at all 2D mascots from that era that never transitioned they are all fucking dead. Even fucking Kirby had to switch to handheld releases for years while releases experimental 3D shit on console. Donkey Kong fucking died too which is why it took them 20 years to make another 2D game after DKC 3

>This is not true at all if Sega would have sat around making 2D games over and over the franchise would have died by the mid 00s.
Kirby and DK are still going. And they have workable formulas in 2D that have critically done better than a lot of 3D games.
>Meanwhile even fucking garbage games like 06 can do that. People want new shit no stale boring repeats.
Sonic 06 sold off its pre-release hype. And people don’t want new shit at all if the new shit is awful. Sales aren’t plummeting because of 2D games, they’re plummeting because of 3D disasters.

Kirby had to switch to handheld shit to survive and DK died for 20 years

In the scope of Sonic the two are the same thing. He's an environmentalist rebelling against the machine, almost literally. It's not even a subtle theme

Sure if you don't like SatAM because of its art direction that's one thing but fuck off acting like its Robotnik wasn't a great take on its own, Aosth's Robotnik definitely was not any better or more faithful. Sally and Tails are what the fuck ever and there were no emeralds in Sonic 1 or CD either

When Sonic Heroes came out. I mean it was an okay game but I think that's where it went downhill and 06 was the point of "We lack creativity." then again SA2 could also be the cause for it too.

People for some reason can't separate the characters from the furries and this leads to some weird mind mechanics where they tie up the "furrbait" characters with the decline of the series because they saw a few bad Sonic ports

It's like saying Pokemon would have been better without the Pokemons themselves because of all the furry porn makes you cringe

There's a big difference between "growing a spine" and acting your age. You just come off with someone who is immature.

>In the scope of Sonic the two are the same thing. He's an environmentalist rebelling against the machine, almost literally. It's not even a subtle theme.
You need to seriously brush up on what a hippie is before throwing that term around if you think punks and hippies are the samething.

I hope you realize trying to flex your age like that has the complete opposite effect, especially when you're so fixated on it.

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Eggman is pretty deliberately malicious and threatening in every classic game. Even in the adventure games he's not some buffoon who's just fucking around, he threatened to blow Amy's head off and would have successfully killed Sonic if not for an asspull. If anything, more recent games are a character assassination

>disappointing
To Capcom, perhaps. Any other company wouldn't drop a series with such iconic status just over sales. They care more about making a fun product, which is what Mega Man is, but Capcom doesn't care, it's not on Mega Man here

I'd say it really went downhill with '06. That was the first truly bad game aside from small scale fuck ups like Labyrinth.

But I'm not the one who brought up age first. So why aren't you going after the person who did in the first place? Biased much? Or too stupid to read the reply thread not directed towards your nosey ass?

one gimmick done well of a segment over multiple mediocre gimmicks mashed together in a barely coherent mix.

the treasure levels weren't RNG. thats why hints were there, thats why you had a radar (which was better in SA1 and they fucked it up in 2), thats why you could come back with powerups and do things faster.

Sonic is fine having multiple playstyles because EVERYONE playing EXACTLY like sonic all the time is kind of boring. having occasional different mechanics to differentiate the characters is perfectly fine. the difference is that they need to spend time refining these. not fucking them up or throwing the baby out with the bathwater

>Kirby had to switch to handheld shit to survive and DK died for 20 years
>died
Donkey is very much still alive, nobody calls DK a dead franchise despite the gaps for getting mainline games.

>Any other company wouldn't drop a series with such iconic status just over sales.
Yes they would. They would stop investing in making fucking games if they don't sale and just use it as a mascot to sell merch(Sound familiar yeah thats what capcom has done for year)

Doomed from the start

>I don't believe that
Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze has been praised a lot, and it's considered one of the best 2D platformers of modern era, possibly of all time. Kirby has also a ton of praise for being a very consistent franchise. sure, Kirby games aren't something mind-blowning, but by being consistent, you don't alienate your fanbase.

>Look at all 2D mascots from that era that never transitioned they are all fucking dead
Retard even the 3D ones are fucking dead. Sly, Rachet, Spyro, Jak, even Crash for a bit and only came back with nostalgia pandering.

Platformers are just underappricated because they are secretly sandbox games in 3D and thus need more attention span to pay attention to it, otherwise zoomers get bored. A Hat in Time is the best example of a well done 3D platformer, but got overlooked by Mario Odyssey, only for faggots to never talk about the game 3 years after it came out. Normalfags just hate platformers of any kind, from Rayman, to Sonic, to whatever.

>a bitch who gets forced to eat dirt by some ugly wizard fucker and acts constipated all the time is a great take on robotbik
Retard

when was that like 2004?

>and it's considered one of the best 2D platformers of modern era, possibly of all time.
Let me stop you there, who has said this? Besides you obviously.

Its is alive now but you can't tell me is wasn't dead for majority of the 00s and 10s. Unless you count shit like the bongo drums as a real releases. Nintendo is a smart company with how it releases games they know if they just release games like DKC every couple years people would get bored quick so they put it on the back burner and make shit for other franchises in the meantime. Sega doesn't have the luxury its either Sonic or nothing because they let their other franchise be forgotten to the point of no return

>There's a big difference between "growing a spine" and acting your age
An adult doesn't get upset by being called out, they get annoyed by unwise, smug acted brats that think they know better.

As opposed to what? The bastardized clown in Aosth? Jim Cummings' god tier VA alone elevates SatAM Robotnik

So basically you hate yourself? How's that going for you?

>Sly, Rachet, Spyro, Jak,
None of these were every extremely popular in the first place.
>Crash
Crash is back for good or atleast a long while as long as the first game they make after the rereleases hype is good.

>Shadow reminds me of that Goth who fucked my crush in High School so I will blame him for ruining Sonic

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Silk Almond is pretty good.

>Yes they would. They would stop investing in making fucking games if they don't sale
Name one iconic IP from Nintendo they let die
No, Metroid doesn't count. It' still going, they are just being autistic with how they are handling it. It only "died" once thanks to some retarded director inserting fanfiction into the Metroid series.

I swear Crash of the Titans got shit reviews.

Star Fox and F Zero
Neither sell very well but both are extremely iconic and are used in promotions all the time.

Mostly bias, yeah. You talk like you're trying really hard to fit in.

>Unless you count shit like the bongo drums as a real releases.
>”real releases”
This concept is fucking dumb, it’s an entry to the series, obviously it’s not a mainline game, but it keeps people anticipating for the main course.
>Nintendo is a smart company with how it releases games they know if they just release games like DKC every couple years people would get bored quick
Then do that with Sonic? Churning out (possibly shitty) games doesn’t do shit but hurt the brand and push people away from it.
>Sega doesn't have the luxury its either Sonic or nothing because they let their other franchise be forgotten to the point of no return
Sega has Puyo Puyo, Yakuza, Bayonetta, those occasional Phantasy Star games, now with Atlus as a second party they have SMT/Persona, they still occasionally use Monkey Ball when they feel like it, and there’s a rumored NiGHTS game. They have IPs they just have to make them QUALITY and fucking ADVERTISE THEM.

I'll name a few because I'm fucking cheeky like that.
Duck Hunt
F-Zero
Mother
Punch Out is probably gone because of that other punching game I forget the name of.
Game and Watch
Excitebike

>None of these were every extremely popular in the first place.
Nice shitpost.
>All 4 games got 3+ sequels
>Not popular
Next you're say Banjo didn't revolutionize the ideal collect-a-hon just because it only had 2 games, despite what happened after said 2 games to make it get killed off.

No, zoomers hate platformers, 2D or 3D. No one, and I mean, NO FUCKING ONE, cared about how good the gameplay is in 3D era Sonic, they always defend its "potential" which is mostly surface level "hype" shit that belongs in a movie instead of a video game. You cannot prove me wrong.

Yeah, because fitting in on some anonymous board is really going to take me far in the social circle right?
Fucking moron.

This:

fakest shit I've read in a long while. OP is a bitchass motherfucker

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Sega being a bunch of retards

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Most Crash games after the Trilogy got 50-70 ratings, same with Spyro . That's why they both died for a while

Only difference is that their more terrible games never got the publicity that Sonic's 2006 got

>Star Fox and F Zero
F-Zero was not iconic ffs, it was always less popular than fucking Mario Kart
Even the fans of that series claim the best one was the one SEGA worked on

Star Fox is just as popular as the likes of Kirby. It's not as game defining as a series, but fun and charming which is all it ever was. Mario, Zelda, and even Metroid defined gaming genres to this day. Flying sims existed before Star Fox, it was just one of the first to pull off a "3D esque" unique look to it. In fact it's ironicness really comes from the surface values of it, not the overall series.

You're the only one who knows why do you what you do. Lighten up.

Since the beginning, sonic is just fundamentally broken. Let's go fast except you can't see where you're going because the screen is too zoomed in and the graphics are too ambiguous to let you easily tell what is interactable and what is just decoration. Then we have the whole 3d shit and they didn't change sonic's base design at all when it looks shit outside of sprites. It's like if some retard made 3D Earthbound and just made the character sprites 3D without changing their proportions at all. That's just the character designs too. They have tried all kinds of gimmicks and bullshit with the gameplay in the 3D games to try to make it work but it just doesn't, while Mario got it right on the first try.

>Then do that with Sonic?
Sega needs money
I agree that they have other franchises but they don't sell as much as they need to right now. Although Yakuza is gaining popularity and so is Persona so we could see a shift soon.

>Duck Hunt
...
>F-Zero
See >Mother
Nintendo didn't let it die, the fucking director ENDED the series, he made a trilogy and that's all he wanted. It's a fucking noval RPG game, that's the whole arc he wanted, ended, and was happy with that.
>Punch Out
... (Mike Tyson being in the game doesn't make it iconic)

>Game and Watch
Served its time. Yet they still find ways to incorporate it into Wario or Mario games of some kind. It's just a minegame series, it's not like other IPs highjacked the motif for a modern appeal.

>Excitebike
See Duck Hunt

Sonic was always meant to be the Mario killer during the console wars but since Sega went third party I think the soul left Sega and is not the same company as they used to be. Sonic would be great if Sega was still on the console business.

>Next you're say Banjo didn't revolutionize the ideal collect-a-hon just because it only had 2 games,
It really didn't they are fine games but Mario 64 did almost everything better.

>Gets fucking shown up
>"L-lighten up!"
Like I said, fucking moron.

>Sega needs money
They’ll get money making good games.
>I agree that they have other franchises but they don't sell as much as they need to right now.
Neither does Sonic nowadays, so that’s not really an argument in favor of pumping out more of them.

>Star Fox is just as popular as the likes of Kirby.
The games sell like shit. Its really is similar in Mega Man in alot of ways. Extremely iconic and you would think it does well but when you really look at the numbers its kinda saddening.

>Since the beginning, sonic is just fundamentally broken
fuck off ESL retard

>It really didn't they are fine games but Mario 64 did almost everything better.
Nice bait.

Fpbp. Mario 64 came along and shit all over the entire industry and everybody was trying to create their own Mario 64 but just couldn't. This includes Sega themselves and they're STILL trying to chase that dragon.

Its a question of would the increased game quality increase sales enought o justify a longer development process. Im not sure it would for Sega especially considering even the worse Sonic games are a guaranteed 1.5+ mil sales

People forget how niche Games used to be
A lot of the iconic games who were known among gaming communities were basically unknown to everyone

Mario sonic Pokemon and Pacman plus some fighting game franchises were the only ones that non gamers can regonise for a long time

>Nice bait.
Sorry banjofag but its the truth. Mario had better controls, better performance, better structure.

>Hell, even Mario 64 doesn't live up to what it was when it first came out, having the same exact problems as Sonic Adventure
This is terribly incorrect. Mario 64 doesn't have anywhere near the same problems that Sonic Adventure did. At worst, you could point to the slight stiffness of the camera by modern standards (owing largely due to the lack of a second analog stick), but even then, the controls are still tight and enjoyable, and leagues better than SA's god awful camera wigging out because it can't handle sanic speed.

SA's problems are abound (buggy, terrible story and dialogue, boring to play side-characters, mess of an overworld, core mechanics transferred over very poorly from the 2D games, etc.), and the only reason why people liked it at the time was just because 3D was still pretty novel and seeing Sonic transition to the 3D space was cool. Still, there's a reason why one of them was considered one of the best transitions of a 2D franchise to 3D and is still beloved and played to this day, and the other is remembered as a shitheap that set the franchise on the path to ruin.

I have Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast and its still good. shut up

Sega still has the Sonic mobile games and Sega Heroes giving them some pocket change for low effort. So there’s that at least.

Wrong

I'm not reading any of this, I just wanted you to know this since it's obviously you refuse to even see where I'm coming from.

You win, user. I'm just jealous that I will never be as cool or as smart as you.

>Sonic is too fast, it's unplayable!
Why is it that slowing down never occurs to people with this mentality?

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It's cool, just promise not to breed and we'll call it even.

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Sonic Unleashed is a great game and no one is going to change my mind about it.

I have no intention to, it's my favorite 3D Sonic game.

>"why is it that (blank) never occurs to people?"
user, we live in 2019, people haven proven to be dumber than people 20 years ago. It's a little obvious why it never occurs to people. People are fucking idiots.

>I'm not reading any of this
Wow, epic post my friend.
>I just wanted you to know this since it's obviously you refuse to even see where I'm coming from.
...and where exactly are you coming from? You didn't actually explain at all why you felt like Mario 64 suffers from the same problems that SA does, which I think is a point most people would strongly disagree on (myself included). I was left to assume you were talking about the controls, and I explained my views in this regard. The rest of your post is talking about how Sonic's tone and story went into a shit direction, which is a point I agreed with in my post.

You don't have to worry about that. Something like me breeding would just be downright unethical.

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Because it's always the fault of the game.

The problem is that a lot of retards think that Sonic Games should let them speed up all the fucking time

Then when they have to slow down they complain because "muh commercials told me this game is about speeeeed"

Then when they are given Boost games that are shallow as fuck they complain about lack of content

Basically the average person is a complete retard when it comes to game design , including Critics, so they most of the time have zero idea what they are talking about

Which is why SEGA was fucking retarded to listen to critics as much as they do , they are pretty much Snakes on the Plane tier now

I just wanted to be courteous.

Oh ok, I didn't realize you were black.

>Mario had better controls
Fucking LEL
>better performance,
When 99% of N64 games lacked by default, not really a accolade. Especially when OoT was far more world wide loved by comparison

>, better structure.
Also false. Overworld > contain playground hovering over a fucking void.

>I'm not reading any of this,
The absolute state of zoomies

>Fucking LEL
It fucking did and you know it
>When 99% of N64 games lacked by default, not really a accolade. Especially when OoT was far more world wide loved by comparison
OOT's performance was fine because its a slow paced adventure game. In a platformer you want stable performance.
>Overworld > contain playground hovering over a fucking void.
Wrong I prefer actual challenge over large worlds it little to do.

They are retarded Amerimutts that took false advertisement as canon to the gameplay.

>dismissing 2 posts that tried to rationally respond to your viewpoints in good faith is "courteous"
Yeah, whatever you say.

the general consensus from most people that played this game. you have to unironically live on a rock to not know this

>In a platformer you want stable performance.
Says who? It's not a fighting game, stablitly is needed for accuratcy with fast paced games.

>Wrong I prefer actual challenge over large worlds it little to do.
You're just a brainlet. Not my problem an environment that exists as a living space triggers your autism

I know you like Modern Sonic games too just for this fact, they do the same fucking thing instead of being a living space like the classic games did. Sonic 3D Blast if it was a real 3D game would trample all over modern shit. Like a full version of Sonic Jam.

>that played this game
So basically just nintendo consumers. Not the general public.

Shadow the Hedgehog is my favorite Sonic game. It has been since at least 2008 or so when I stopped renting it and actually bought it. If you don't like it you can die mad about it. I've seen all the videos and they only strengthened my conviction.

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I can see why you would like Shadow the hedgehog but there is a lot wrong about the game.

When Sega left the console biz and Shadow the Hedgehog game.

Sonic Heroes was okay. Would have been better if they never brought back the Choatix.
The Sonic Advance games were okay, but they were lacking, just didn't have the same feel as the Sonic The Hedgehog games.

Shadow the Hedghog game killed it.
In America they fired all the voice actors and hired the god awful 4kidsTV voice actors.
They went over the edge with Shadow.
Brought back the god awful Choatix again.
Introduced aliens into the sonic mythos.
Made Shadow half alien.
Over complicated Shadow and Maria's back story.
Despite the Cinematic scenes looking really good, the game-play was the same smooth and shiny shit from Sonic Heroes and Sonic Adventure DX.
Guns in a Sonic game.

Then after Shadow they just kept making shitty plot after shitty plot.
Smooth and shiny.
And then they got rid of Crush40.
And now all the games are "too fast". Its just a dodge and quick-time game now. Everything is a blur. And then they brought back side scrolling which sucks. Not only that, they'll interrupt the fast stuff with it, breaking the facing. AND not only that, all side-scrolling is super zoomed out.

Sonic generations and colors aren't helping. It's still bad.

They need to just create a REAL Sonic Adventure 3.
No shiny smooth shit.
Not ridiculously fast blur shit. Basically levels where you can stop at any poit and look around like the first 2.
Play as Sonic, Tails (Not in a mech and able to fly with his tails), Knuckles presumably treasure hunting, Amy but make her levels good not just evading an invincible enemy, Rouge stealth missions, Shadow that just harder Sonic levels, and either a shooter Eggman or robot, or something out of left field like Big the Cat was.
Bring back Chao garden, but new evolution forms, same speed, power, fly, swim, normal, but 1 & 2's evolution forms looked different (Except Sonic DX was changed to match 2).
No aliens.
Super Sonic Ending.

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And bring back crush40

Shut up, SatAM started the cancer that was Archie comics and its melodramatic teen animal drama. While he is against injustice, it's entirely out of character for him to be taking orders from someone. Eggman doesn't sit in one spot either, every thwarted plan has him move on to another location. SatAM and Archie were the anti-thesis of what Sonic is supposed to be.

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>and hired the god awful 4kidsTV voice actors
I've come to make an announcement

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>god awful Choatix
Fuck off, Vector and Espio are based

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This new, detective agency Choatix is fucking gay and annoying.