Whiterun is one of the nine-major cities in the province of Skyrim...

>blocks your path

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It's hilarious to think poor people in Whiterun never visit the Cloud District, maybe 10 steps away from their homes, spending their entire lives in a radius of 20 metres..

It's honestly insulting. Bethesda have gotten so fucking lazy. If Whiterun was like Vivec City size and the Cloud District was some sort of gated off portion that only the upper class had access to then MAYBE that line would make sense. Instead Nazeem ends up sounding like a crazy person and everybody hates his guts.

Points of interest > unexplorable backdrops with faceless NPCs

Prove me wrong

That game came out in 2011 with a PS3 in mind and you could enter every house. Also all NPCs look unique (apart from guards obviously) and have at least one unique line of voiced dialogue.

Compare that to Witcher 3 which came out 4 years later. While it had one really big and a slightly smaller city there are barely any unique NPCs, you can enter less houses than in Whiterun. It lacks soul. Some nilfgardian questgiver in the Epilogue has the same character model down to the missing teeth, voice actor and idle dialogue as a random peasant in the hamlets and villages of the Northern Kingdom.

I am so fucking tired of seeing this thread almost every day. Every time it’s the same complaints. “Wahhh why are the cities so small?” Yes, it is known that the cities in the lore would be larger, but the in game depicting is just meant to represent the cities, how do you not understand this? If you want to enter every building and talk to almost every NPC - which most people expect - then the scale of the city will have to be smaller to support the level of detail and interactivity. You can either have a smaller city where almost every building can be entered and every NPC has dialogue, or you can have a large city with generic NPCs and buildings that can’t be entered. It’s a choice and Bethesda opts for more detail and interaction. If Bethesda has opted for larger cities then everyone would complain that it’s a farce because you can’t interact with all the buildings and NPCs. So many other companies make large cities in games, but Bethesda are one of the few who fill a niche of a highly detailed world. You complain so much but you don’t know how good you already have it. Do you just want their games to be like everyone else? Can you really not use your imagination and understand that in game depictions are just meant to be representations and your imagination can do the rest?

>have atleast one unique line of voiced dialogue
nigga Skyrim mods had more VA than the original game did. Also that excuse for the size is bullshit when both the j.perial city and vice city were bigger and in older games

>modded
xD

Some people actually prefer the wide as an ocean deep as a puddle way because it provides a sense of scale. I am sure Bethesda could make a fuck huge city with nothing in it like Witcher 3.

>muh novigrad
Fucking overrated gay ass city. Most of the city is fucking boring with nothing to do in it, just walking past the same shitty generic NPCs. It’s the worst part of the game too.

>with nothing in it
But Skyrim's cities had nothing in them either.

>Vice City was bigger than Whiterun so it's no excuse
You might actually be mentally deficient. Please tell your tard wrangler that Yea Forums(nel) is off limits for you.

This is Dawnstar, a major port city of Skyrim

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Based sub-50 IQ nigger

Same place the Cyrodiilic jungles are, gone.

>major port city
>one dock
Yikes

haha, you didn't even try to deny it. Can't blame you, though. Skyrim really is an embarrassment

I do feel a lot of immersion break when a fucking city have like 50 people on it

I cant play elder Scrolls anymore with those tiny ass towns

the local bandit population outnumber the entire city 100 to one

A single cave gang outnumbers any skyrim city

caves are the real cities in skyrim

>more bandits in one ruined tower than there are guards in the capital city

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Skyrim's cities were small but each of the "bigger" cities had more unique interaction in it than any whole region in The Witcher 3. You can interact with more people in Whiterun than in Novigrad.

Every building in the cities of Skyrim are accessible, they are owned by someone and typically you can find that someone. The contents of their home, and decor speaks to what kind of person they are. The houses serve a purpose and aren't just a door you can't enter that doesn't have an owner, someone is implied to live there but you can't find them, or appraise their valuables.

>center of trade

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Citizens were the real bandits all along..

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If you are going to shit on something you should have at least played it.

>interact
>assuming you’d even need to interact with every person in a city

>everything in the world is there for you, the player
>this is a good thing

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have you ever wandered a daggerfall city looking for someone for your quest?

>You can interact with more people in Whiterun than in Novigrad.
Well even if that's true, it's all ruined by the hamlet sized cities and their tiny overall populations.

Skyrim's cities don't feel like cities, they feel like film sets. They only have the bits that the player interacts with, but that's not what a living breathing city is like.

I think he meant Vivec city from Morrowind, but he's still retarded

Your post here speaks volumes about witcher's cities

where can i get loli mods now that all the fallen is dead?

Looking at it now I'm pretty sure it's barely bigger than Riverwood. In fact I think that Winterhold and Morthal might actually be smaller than Riverwood.

lmao i didn't know this, i thought he was talking about cloudtop or w/e it's called where the dragon lives

This does not speak for Bethesda's city-building skill, user...

And there is no reason to go into every house unless you are a thief, and even then most houses don't have any valuables worth stealing because bethesda is gay.

Don't reply to me if you can't come up with a counter argument to prove me wrong or discuss something.

So what are the best city expansion mods out there

Every NOC even has its own daily routine which can change based if someone was killed for example. Even guards don't stand in a corner all day, at night they return to a watchtower to eat and sleep while other guards replace them.

Asking for directions or the whereabouts of a specific NPC with low charisma is just horrible, they all hate you and look down on you.

>it's ruined
For you. I'd rather take the film set than the bluescreen which isn't a living breathing city either. Ideally it would be a mix between high interaction and cardboard setpieces you can't enter when it makes sense.

Yeah! And everyone eats nothing but bread!

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Present an argument instead of using unintelligent responses instead of shitting on the argument then complaining about the smell you fucking troglodyte.

A lot of the NPC houses aren't there "for you", as you're rarely required to enter one, but being able to go in and see different and possibly interesting things about their owners adds to the depth and to having a sense of a "living" community. I wish the cities were a lot bigger too and feel like they're a bit of a let down that they're mostly empty and small, but atleast in that regard they have that going for them

>Tfw no mods for Skyrim come even close to what Better Cities was for Oblivion
That mod was glorious, even if the code for it was flawed

You're not the boss of me.
If you are ok with large empty cities for the sense of scale they provide then that is a perfectly valid opinion to hold.

>there is no reason to go into every house
Well if you're a faggot and hate immersion then I guess there's no reason to play anything at all that isn't a hallway simulator.

This would be nice if they were able to make enough content and assets to distinguish these things more, but that’s an unreasonable task so they don’t do it. As such, the variety that “being able to enter any house” provides is minimal

I want to make a mod that adds safes or secret stashes in NPC homes with 500-5000+ septims in savings based on their economic class tucked away because it's absurd to me that npcs have 32 septims to there name and there are no banks to speak of

Some people like to hit designated fun point #84 and then moving on to the next one as the developer intended.
They tend to not like open world games as they get confused without the dev directing them.

Why do fantasy RPGs insist on having lots of absurdly small cities? They should just do 1 big more realistic city

I fucking WISH houses had more varied interiors with semirare loot so that playing as a thief was less boring

When you have so small cities, people have no other choice than to move into the wild and become bandits and muggers. Things are so desperate for them that the bandits have to attack anyone on sight to get food, clothing and money, considering they attack dragon slaying demi-gods on sight.

>variety
I think it's more about the possibility to enter each and every house. That having said I'm at a loss of words that 8 years after release there isn't a mod that makes Skyrim really BIG like bigger cities, more districts, more worldspace, bigger farms.

The cities in both games are places to talk to NPCs and get quests. If stealing worthless junk like pots and spoons counts as "something to do", then we are really lowering the bar here.

>pic related
>a major city
>literally a small village

I've got 2k hours in this game and I see 2 buildings I've never gone inside of.

I've thought about this as being small often as well, but would you really want to trade it with a AC city? Even the smaller ones like Monteriggioni in 2 was just 3 shops and a single building you could go into.

I like AC for big cities to explore around in. I liked Skyrim for a big natural world with many caves and dungeons to explore. Maybe one day we'll get a game that does both and doesn't suck, but I suspect it might.

Novigrad is a good city

Oh we do understand this, it's just that it's still retarded. Either make bigger cities, or adjust the lore. See Kingdom Come: Deliverance for an example of doing it right.

It's okay Todd, it's just some guy on the internet. He can't hurt you. There there.

>first time playing skyrim
>hyped for the scale
>go to a "big city"
>literally 20 inhabitants

uninstalled soon after

Being able to enter all houses has been a trademark of TES for decades. Skyrim doesn't really hold up well 8 years after release. It was made by 1/3 of the usual development team size but Bethesda just struck gold with the genre, gameplay loop and mods.

Yeah, I agree. Still, I really like to have that possibility even though I don't use it that much,
This. I don't understand if people just don't care enough to want/make something like that or if there's some kind of engine limitation

Attached: Morrowind vs Skyrim.jpg (1158x1244, 581K)

Having stats has also been a trademark of TES but guess what, skyrim doesn't have that.

>8 years old
>obsidrones: still assblasted
>cdpr fanboys: still assblasted
>nintendongs, weebs, gothic retards: still assblasted
how did skyrim do everything so RIGHT?

I thought he was talking about a region in his homeland of Hammerfell. Why would you even make him say that if you know that your city can be fully explored in like 4 minutes

People with class live in Solitude and mod it to look even more noble than it already is

>skyrim shops are content but morrowind shops aren't
Do enlighten me, what is your reasoning

Can those uncircled morrowind houses still be accessed to steal shit from them?

The fuck does that even mean? Balmora has more guilds in one city than Skyrim has in total.

>Morrowind
THREE taverns not circled
Smith, Outfitters, Alchemist, Pawn Shop, Fine Alchemist, Book Shop NOT CIRCLED

>Skyrim
Circled a fucking player house

Whoever made this is a nigger

>Merchants aren't actual content in Morrowind
>Merchants are actual content in Skyrim
What did he mean by this?

Yeah there's so much exciting content in Uthgerd's completely unused house.

Yes, and several have associated quests.

2 smiths not circled in Morrowind. TWO

Fighter's Guild > Companions

I like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Gothic 1-3, Risen 1, Elex, Fallout 3, NV and 4.
What now?

he is just a mad skyrimtoddler that drew a circle around every house, never mind him.

I am sure they could back to making Vivec sized citites but it may be at the expense of turning NPCs back into stationary objects with all the charm and functionality of mannequins.

I would rather they didn't.

>be on Yea Forums
>claims to like video games
Stay contrarian, Yea Forums

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>couple of cabins
>city
javascript:quote('472165741');

why the fuck has no one made a season based snow mod yet?

lol the mages guild, Morag Tong and the thieves guild arent even circled.
2/10 bait

this reaks of newnigger

it's a videogame

That pic has been around quite a while.
So first off welcome newfriend
Second off lurk moar.

not really, they just need to make them not interested in you, like say you add 100 NPCs to Whiterun and expand it a little bit, while keeping the original NPCs. These 100 new NPCs, just give them a couple lines of dialogue basically telling the PC to Piss Off if he tries to talk to them. So it makes it more interesting when you find one that actually does want to talk to you, and it doesnt make it seem like everyone in the world is so starved for human interaction that they spill their life story to the first person who bothers to talk to them.

Meh.
Not a fan of filler.

The irony.

>he tries to pull this obvious bullshit with fucking Balmora of all places, possibly the most known city in all of Morrowind due to it usually being the first 'real' town you visit.
Yeah looking at the replies that didn't work out too well huh

Except neither of those cities were done well. They were just small areas divided by loading screens.

Because that worked so fucking well in Witcher 3, didn't it.

*blocks your path*

Attached: TW3_screen-Novigrad-2.jpg (1920x907, 663K)

How many of those buildings can you enter? How many times does the same NPC show up at various parts of the city? TW3 looks gorgeous, but they specifically sacrificed realism for scale.

Yeah, one of the shittiest city in history of videogames and worst part of the W3, with absolutely no incentive to explore. But who cares, it's pretty and it's BIIIIIG.

>one of the shittiest city in history of videogames and worst part of the W3
I hate using buzzwords but you're the very definition of a zoomer.

zoomers love Novigrad tho

It feels more authentic than Solitude or Whiterun

A lot of them actually, and they aren't locked behind loading screens (which is the only thing that allows Bethesda to make every building accessible)

And for all the talk of content in Skyrim's cities, each city has maybe 3 or 4 side quests and most have zero main quests. Novigrad has several shops and Novigrad's quests are:

Statue quests (complete before Triss’s quests):
The Soldier Statuette
The Nobleman Statuette
Triss Merigold’s quests:
A Matter of Life and Death
Now or Never
Dandelion’s quests:
Cabaret
Carnal Sins
Zoltan’s quest:
A Dangerous Game
Assassin quests:
An Eye for an Eye
A Deadly Plot
Redania’s Most Wanted
A Barnful of Trouble
Of Dairy and Darkness
The Dwarven Document Dilemma
Empty Coop
A Feast for Crows
Fencing Lessons
Hey, You Wanna Look At My Stuff?
Haunted House
Hidden Messages of the Nilfgaardian Kind
Little Red
Message from an Old Friend
Novigrad, Closed City (coming soon)
Novigrad Hospitality
Out On Your Arse!
Rough Neighbourhood
Spooked Mare
A Tome Entombed
A Walk on the Waterfront
Warehouse of Woe
Novigrad secondary quests which require Skellige access
There are a few quests that start in Novigrad but continue or end on Skellige, so you need access to the archipelago to complete them.

Black Pearl
Following the Thread
Gwent: Old Pals
Treasure hunts: Novigrad
Battlefield Loot (coming soon)
Coast of Wrecks (coming soon)
Griffin School Diagrams – Part 1 (coming soon)
Griffin School Upgrade Diagrams – Part 2 (coming soon)
Cat School Diagrams – Part 1 (coming soon)
Cat School Diagrams – Part 2 (coming soon)
Miscellaneous activities: Novigrad
Gwent: Big City Players
Fists of Fury: Novigrad
Race: The Great Erasmus Vegelbud Memorial Derby

Now we wait for the goalposts to be inevitably moved.

Dude, I put a lot of time into TW3. I really enjoyed the game. But the vast majority of Novigrad buildings are inaccessible. I also never said it was any better or worse than Skyrim. Just that it's not a great example of one large, realistic city.

Guess we all should go and play Forklift Simulator 2019. It's not as fun as Need for Speed, but fuck it, it's authentic brah.

A few months ago, I was riding along the roads of Whiterun hold with my friend, Lydia, until we realize that our horse was out of water.
We were trying to find somewhere to stop to give our horse a rest, but no luck. Then something caught our eyes. It was a village in the middle of nowhere.
When we stopped by the inn, we noticed they was no customers inside. It was weird, considering inns are open 24/7. Also, there were no horses either.
I heard a faint laugh inside. We got terrified. I tried opening the door, but it was locked by a rusty Master lock. We didn't have time to try to lockpick it, so Lydia pulled out her bow and shot at it. it was finally unlocked.
So we opened the door to the inside. What we saw was so horrible. There were dead corpses all over the tables and chairs, and lots of blood in the mead barrel. We puked in the trash can that was next to use, but before we did that, I saw mutilated arms and legs inside, which made us puke even more. How did The Winking Skeever end up like this? We were so hungry, so we ran into the kitchen. There were potatoes and a few deer meat, I thought we finally found food, until we saw more corpses.

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On the other hand, here are the quests in Skyrim's largest city

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This time, they had no eyeballs, juts blood coming from the sockets. Their stomachs have been ripped open with the organs ripped out. I tried ignoring them, but they still bother me. I didn't even have time to eat skeever tails. We tried escaping through the main door, but it mysteriously locked by itself. We were now prisoners inside the building. We got scared just by staring at the corpses. Lydia and I spitted up, trying to look for a exit. She went to a door that was covered in oil.
I didn't want to enter with her, because I felt that danger was lurking behind the door. That's when I saw a Scroll of Fire Rune in one of the dining tables. I picked up, added it to favorites, and placed in the door. After 10 seconds, it finally exploded. I was free to go wherever I want. I tried calling her to come back, but she still didn't answer. I gave my horse my backup water supply that I keep in my inventory. I waited for her to go back to my horse with me, it was now 7:00 PM. That's when I saw a tall figure coming from the door with a Daedric Battleaxe. I ran away as fast as I could. I managed to escape to my house. Lydia never came back at all...
Two days later, I received a letter from a courier with the most disturbing headline of all, it said:

"2 adventurers went to a abandoned inn on the far side of Whiterun hold. One managed to get away, with the other one nowhere in sight. Guards are still trying to locate the woman, but they never found proof. Then they mysteriously disappeared by entering a oil covered door."

What was behind that door? How did they all went missing? I hope someone would this mystery anytime soon.................. And who is the strange figure?

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They didn't sacrifice realism, that is exactly how mediaval towns would look like size-wise. Now there are other things that aren't realistic but the size is absolutely realistic

Name a better similar-sized city in an open world RPG in the last 20 years.

Yeah and no one ever changes clothes, or goes to the bathroom, or travels to another city, or buys food, etc.

Its a fucking game you retard, you can't expect to have thousands of houses with NPCs with full schedules and houses.

>realism
>wants not a single locked door

>realism
>argues against a city that specifically has the scale of a city because reasons
You're not really helping your argument. They did not sacrifice realism for scale, quite the opposite.

Why didn't you include the Bards College quests?
Or the rest of them for that matter.

Diamond City was founded in the 2130's in Fenway Park and quickly established itself as a safe haven for settlers of the Commonwealth, thanks to what its residents affectionately referred to as "the Wall." Later decades saw Diamond City grow into the Commonwealth's largest and most prosperous community. It developed a degree of social stratification as wealthier residents came to occupy properties in the settlement's exclusive upper stands; these overlooked the lower field where everyone else strived to make a living.

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Holy based.

>That game came out in 2011 with a PS3 in mind and you could enter every house.
Oblivion came out in 2006 and had dozens of buildings in the IC, each of which had multiple entrances for different homes/shops. Yeah, it had separated districts, but Whiterun was already hidden by a loading screen so it could have done the same thing.

Boston from Fallout 4.

Gran Soren, from Dragon's Dogma.

>Kill th Bandit Leader (radiant)
> Find an item (radiant)
>Becoming Thane (radiant)
>Dungeon Delving (radiant)
>Conversations (radiant)
>Kill the Vampire (radiant)
When you realize these are literally half of Skyrim's "quests" if not more you quickly realize how shit it is.

Reminder that there are literally 0 (zero) radiant quests in The Witcher 3. Each quest has it's own location and objective, and once you finish all the quest, you're done. Nothing is randomly generated for you.

Diamond City? Please don't make me laugh.

Windhelm and Solitude are the only cities in Skyrim that have any scale to them, accomplished by tall buildings and winding streets. They're still devoid of life but feel somewhat like large central areas.
Whiterun however feels like a collection of huts with an unreasonably large castle shat onto the top of their hill, with absolutely fuck all of consequence in the surrounding area. They could've and should've increased the boundaries and added a bunch more building, including some taller ones, and actually delineated areas like the Cloud District to make it feel like anything other than a small village

Do you visit the Cloud District very often?
Oh, what i am saying. Of course you don´t.

I'm so tired of these junk cities in Bethesda's Fallouts. It's been over 200 fucking years since bombs dropped. In Fallout 1 and 2 people were already building cities from stone like NCR. There is absolutely 0 reason to live in a ruined city. Bethesda can't in to post-post apocalypse, it's depressing they've bought Fallout rights.

>Windhelm and Solitude are the only cities in Skyrim that have any scale to them==========
Ahem.

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This is Baldur's Gate, bigger than any Bethesda city after Morrowind

I said what I meant. It isn't rocket science.

The Bards College quests are literally
>Find an instrument (radiant location)
>Find another instrument (radiant location)
Find yet another instrument (radiant location)

There is literally ONE Bards College Quest. Its called Tending the Flames and it's not horrible by Bethesda's standards but it's literally just another "go to location, kill Draugur boss at the end, open chest, return via the shortcut."

You have no idea how shitty Playstation/Sony is for a crooked engine like Gamebryo.

Attached: Super_map.png (1204x902, 1.28M)

>create city out of a baseball stadium complete with electricity
>no one ever cleans the floors

The whole of Boston is a city like it's a fucking city. Diamond City is a settlement within that city just like Bunker Hill.

I remember most homes having copy/pasted interiors and copy/pasted nameless NPCs

Not only were settlements bigger in Oblivion, each town had unique architecture. Skyrim was so fucking lazy. Not only lazy, but cheap. Beth decided to make their own crappy flora instead of paying the license for SpeedTree. Ugh.

Has it been topped yet?

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And why couldn't Bethesda do that to give thieves more houses to rob like they did in Baldur's Gate?

Some do but you can go in nearly every building and this came out in 1998

Don't forget that the first games also had tribals speaking creole which makes zero (0.00%) sense.
It's also like 70 years after colonization and people in Africa and India are again living in huts.

Boston isn't really the city, the Diamond City area is.

What about Sheos quest?
Why didn't you include that one?
We can do this one at a time if you like.
I got time.

>What is Falador

The city of Boston doesn't count as a city.
That is some next level shit right there.

Oh yeah Riften is okay too. However I felt like the sewer portion was sorely underutilised, being just a generic straight dungeon rather than a vaguely interesting sprawling network of hobo homes

Falador is shitty. Everything is so far apart and there is nothing to do there except the mine

Why? It's a city plain and simple.

Consoles

A team of amateurs created Tamriel Rebuilt for Morrowind and the cities were incredible.
Port Telvannis, Necrom, everything from the Indoril areas were among the best cities I've seen in any RPG.
Why not just hire said amateurs?

I... uh...

it's not like the pros couldnt make that if they wanted to
they just either dont care enough to do it, or they had to allocate resources elsewhere

even Novigrad in TW3 feels tiny, none of these cities capture true scale. Even the "largest" fantasy cities could barely support a population in the 10s of thousands.

To put that in perspective, one of the largest cities in the ancient world, Rome, had a population in the millions at its apex, it was a sprawling city even back then.
I don't think video games will ever be able to capture true scale and size of cities.

Tamriel Rebuilt is finished? Like actually playable? You're having a giggle here

AAAAAAHH TIDY UP YOU FUCKING PIGS

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and yet despite this, most homes are pointless and filled with garbage items that you have no use for either way. Despite the amount of content, most of it is completely and utterly pointless for a 'hand crafted" world.

"capital of the region of the Pale"
>Its the only fucking place in the Pale
zoinks

This. If the bethesda team had any obligation to make a good game they could probably pull off some really good shit. Unfortunately people buy their games for the name and for the mods, so that wont happen unless they absolutely crash and burn in the near future

I explored TR years ago when they had just got to working on the outer areas of Mournhold.
Even without any quests the cities were infinitely more fun to explore than the barren 3-building shit heaps Todd shits out.

>interact with more people in Whiterun than in Novigrad
Then why the fuck don't you get out and "interact" with people outside, ya basement shitgoblin?

Real tundras aren’t always snowy. I’m actually kind of glad they decided that Skyrim isn’t always frozen

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autism boy, first off such a thing could never be built in a game without being procedurally generated, and even if it was, it 99% of it would be pointless, second Rome is in no way representative of most ancient cities

same, but it was a crime not to make the weather system seasonal, and its also a crime theres no mod to add seasonal snowfall and snowcover

>muh Radiant AI
Fuck off. Like I care if some guard or shopkeeper don't have an actual routine they follow.
Sure, it sounds great but the impact it has on how the game feels is small.
The guards in Novigrad never felt any less alive than in Whiterun just because they don't have go to sleep somewhere.

>Todd in the meeting with Sony and Microsoft console lawyers
-So. It is the same as the PC, correct?
-Yes, sir.
-Did you break the game in very mall cells? Our console can´t handle large cells.
-Yes, sir. We did.
-If the PC version is larger or better, we sue you. Millions of dollars. You better know it.
-Yes, sir. I know, sir.
-We will be checking everything, every noock and crane. It MUST be the same.
-Yes, sir.
-We let you release a texture path for the PC later, but NO EXCLUSIVES BESIDES THAT!!!!
All dlc released must be available to our consoles, same size and quality, did you HEAR ME?!?!
-Yes, sir.
-Good. Now suck my cock.

Mentioning Oblivion is not much of an argument though because Oblivion is the one where they started that nonsense of simplifying and being lazy.

Example being Oblivion only had like 7 different voices for the NPCs and all the towns were tiny with few NPC's compared to Morrowind. Oblivion gates only had like 4 different versions, and a bunch of other stuff like factions and guilds were fewer and with less quests compared to morrowind.

Attached: morrowind.png (1594x2254, 532K)

I lol'd

Boston was fucking horribly designed. The entire city was a maze divided by loading screens and you had no idea how to get around because you didn't know if your objective was in your current area or if it was on the other side of an invisible wall and you had to find the nearest loading screen to get to it. At least Fallout 3 had rubble as an excuse for areas being locked off but Fallout 4 had none.

> Why not hire said amateurs?
Because a 20 year dev cycle may work for modders The profit requirement would make it a risky business model.

Don't start.

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>slaughter every single guard in Whiterun
>every one, including the ones in the barracks and the jail
>return one week later
>30 new identical guards standing in their place
Such good design

>every noock and crane

Agreed. A seasonal system would have been amazing. They teased it at one time but sadly never followed through.
youtu.be/8SE5owAIPmk

The reason it sometimes takes so long for modders to release something is because they're preoccupied with their day jobs.
If "modding" was their day job, we'd have quality content released in a timely fashion.

Comparing daggerfall and Morrowind is not the same, they are different types of RPG with Morrowind making that leap to more modern kind of RPG.

Oblivion didn't make a similar leap, there are in the same type but Oblivion is just with less content.

Also your image mentions some things that Morrowind does have, such as lycanthropes

Based.

>even zenimax with 0 experience with ES can do better
bethesda is truly garbage

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That isn't a fault of the game.Boston never adhered to the grid system of city building. Wherever people walked became roads. There was no city planning done at all.

Morrowind. Summoning a Golden Saint using a scroll, killing it and looting her weapons/armors (and soultrapping her in the process).
Those were the good old days.

Daggerfall
>Vast bland area's of nothingness that you auto travel past

Morrowind
>Vast areas that are actually detailed, that you can explore and find all manner of quests and dungeons in.

Let's not pretend Daggerfall is actually better, it's a lot of auto-generated and repetitive quests and dungeons but it works because it's still a comfortable and fun experience despite it. But it's not on the same level of detail and world-building as Morrowind by a large margin, every faction, every guild, every town, every region is better in Morrowind than in Daggerfall.

Based.

Doubt.
Look at Creation Club. The facts in evidence do not support your argument.

I actually hate npcs having schedules so I wouldn't mind that at all.

Yes it does get confusing when they don't stay in one spot the whole game.
This is why we can't have nice things.

ESO cities are actually pretty good by mmo standards

>Morrowind
>Vast

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Daggerfall is arguably the best open world RPG ever made.

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Daggerfall is also the only TES where you can do a flying roundhouse.

The size isn't, which is the topic of discussion.

Did anyone anywhere ever did a game remotely similar?

Feel free to disprove it. There's a ton to explore in Morrowind.

If you're going to try and use the scale of daggerfall to try and counter it, 99.9% of that open world is the nothingness that was mentioned. You auto travel to every location, the majority of your time you spend in the dungeons themselves (which are generated safe for a few specific ones) or the cities, which also have nothing really unique about them unlike the Morrowind ones.

>implying you can't use levitate and do the same but better in Morrowind
Morrowind has nonsense like that as well, except for the horse part which I guess is a fair point but it doesn't stand up against all the parts that Morrowind does better.

Morrowind has the smallest explorable area of all the Elder Scrolls games. Forget Arena and Daggerfall. It's smaller than Oblivion and Skyrim.

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There is no one who will actually argue this.
There are hipsters who will say it and hope nobody actually played it.
Daggerfall is worse than Fallout 76 and 76 is utter trash.

Zoom zoom

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The old timers don't believe this because they used a few tricks to make it seem larger.
The fast travel system
The fog
The slow walking speed
The foyadas impeding any direct routes.

They were pretty clever in that regard.

Not the guy you are arguing with, but Sheoagorath's quest was so disappointing it's better not to mention it

It's free and anons can check it out for themselves.
The download will probably take longer than the determination.

It may well be one of the worst games ever made.
> But it was ambitious
So was the Titanic.

Zoom zoom

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Yeah, if you pick up levitation and the Boots of Blinding Speed, you realize just how small Morrowind is. There's a reason the game sends waves of cliff racers after you if you try traveling in a straight line, avoiding the roads.

Why is the town laid out like that? It's very unorganized and confusing and doesn't seem efficient to be... y'know, a functioning town.

They ought to fire their city planner.

I am guessing you grew up in the dark age of gaming and had to eat so much shit hoping for a chunk of corn you have acquired a taste for it.
I feel bad for you.
Thanks beta testing an industry for us though.

The same reason shopping stores and casinos purposefully design their layouts to disorient you. It keeps you hanging around, and gives the impression that the place is bigger.

Yet you can explore far more in Morrowind. It also does nothing to disprove that it isn't large, all you're saying that the overall area is slightly smaller than Oblivion or Skyrim and yet those two are as bland as can be and don't even have half of what Morrowind has

>mushrooms and ash as far as the eye can see

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In the strictest sense the other games have far more to explore than Morrowind.
The point you are trying to make, I believe,is that it is more rewarding to explore Morrowind. That is debatable.

>swamp region
>Watery region literred with islands
>Grasslands

Just to name a few, the region was far more diverse and creative than Oblivion and Skyrim and you know it. You must be a deliberate contrarian to claim otherwise, it was even one of the biggest criticisms of Oblivion that all they had was just some grassy forests and snowy area in the north and that was it.

The ultimate redpill: Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all good games with strengths and weaknesses.

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>There are people who STILL post this image unironically

Listen, I've beaten all the mainline games. Morrowind is my least favorite. It's not contrarianism. Morrowind doesn't have the campiness of Arena or Oblivion. It doesn't have the fun rogue-esque dungeon crawling of Daggerfall. Skyrim may be more of an action-adventure, but it's nowhere near as janky. I'll give you one and only one thing: Morrowind has the best memes.

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>implying it's wrong
It still gets posted because there's still idiots that claim Skyrim/Oblivion have more content. It's an easy way to point out all the area's that were simplified without having to type it out for the 9000th time

Not how it is done here. You defend the first one you played as absolute perfection and every other entry as complete dog shit.

You are correct but that isn't how Yea Forums does things.

prepare for 600 gigabyte game files goyim.

You just have really shit taste dude

Skyrim had standing stones instead of birthsigns.
That list is more than a little dishonest.

Yeah the memes aged as poorly as Morrowind itself.

That you can switch depending on what you want, not nearly the same thing.

They aren't mentioned because they are now something entirely else and even if you wanted to count them it's not going to help Skyrim in the argument as it's more casual and simple anyway.

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You take that back. I have a bound dagger and I know how to use it.

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I'd rather TES doesn't become town simulator.

So add standing stones in Morrowind and Skyrim to the list.

why? the major reason for huge filesizes is uncompressed/poorly compressed sound and videos to waste space. bethesda loves to save time and reuse assets, so the filesize would at most increase by a few hundred mb.

What do they eat?

boston is ironically the reason why bethesda couldn't do large populated cities though. it's so goddamn unoptimized even with top of the line hardware it'll lag. the least they could do is upgrade their engine to use vulkan to reduce the enormous draw call overhead.

meant to quote

It's wrong in many regards, with blatant errors/lies as well. No one who is actually looking at the games objectively would say Morrowind has a complex combat system.

Not only that, but the image brings up many pointless forms of "Content" that don't actually make the game better. For example, having more diseases doesn't make the game better, because someone looking objectively would know that the diseases are just different forms of temporary stat loss. Another misleading comment is how Morrowind has classes, but these are just prebuilt starting characters and nothing more than that. To claim Morrowind is better because it has a "I don't know what I'm doing please make a character for me" button is not something that should be listed as if it adds options or content.

Not only that, but the image is clearly lying in some cases about Skyrim. For example, it states that there are 0 birthsigns in skyrim. This is true in that you can't pick a birthsign on character creation, but the birthsigns have just been changed to stones in Skyrim. To say they're completely gone is clearly misinformation for the sake of trying to make Morrowind look better.

Additionally, many aspects that it brings up are not necessarily better or worse. For example, there's an entire post about being able to sleep, which is bizarre because it doesn't add anything to the "Argument" and simply bloats the image up. Leveling up being attached to sleeping isn't a major reason why the game should be better or worse. At most you can cheese and use level ups to heal in Skyrim, but if players exploiting systems is brought up, then Morrowind has significantly more issues than Skyrim does (But some people love it for that, so it's not a bad or a good thing).

Basically if you believe that image, you're just outing yourself as someone who clearly has blatant bias for Morrowind and refuses to see its flaws, which isn't healthy if you're a fan.

Ok, so if they're a different thing, then shouldn't the poster say "Skyrim has standing stones, Morrowind doesn't"?

Oh wait, of course they wouldn't, because it's clearly a non-objective and terribly biased image.

Not that it matters in the end, but either you don't remember or you're a pleb that doesn't read the in-game books.

>Diseases
Every. Single. Time.
What the fuck is up with Elderscrolls fags and their obsession with diseases? Why do people seem to constantly insist that having more diseases is one of the biggest selling points of the series? As far as I'm aware you just cure them in two seconds and they're gone.

>code was flawed
Dude, that mod would place stairways to nowhere, trees growing through statues embedded in walls, and create deathtraps for npcs consisting of uneven elevations and random stairs that would allow them to fall through and get stuck.

A little arcipelago in the witcher III totally destroy all skyrim

>They teased it at one time but sadly never followed through.
Just like all the other things they advertised and never bothered to implement

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All they had to do was cram more buildings in there and it would have looked fine. Bethesda's incompetence truly is compelling.

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More is better.
This is how the mouth breathers think.

>Unimpressive lorewise, but very functional for the player as it allows them to travel around quickly and find important NPC easily

>Impressive lorewise, but a complete nightmare to navigate and 90% of it is dead empty space

Imagine thinking Vivec is impressive when all they did was copy and paste the same building like ten times.

Why did oblivions citys feel so much bigger? Is it all the content and quests they crammed into every corner?

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Same reason Morrowindfags thought Morrowind was bigger than Oblivion.
Nostalgia goggles

Yeah, man. There's been a huge increase in the area of the mainland. I have the latest version.

Why do gamebryo games all look like prolapsed anus

Consoles at the time (and now). Fallout 4 only had two cities in the base game, with YOU needing to build the rest.

>spending their entire lives in a radius of 20 metres..
Haha, yeah, who could live like that? Haha.

They are bigger. The buildings are larger, too, both inside and out.

Not to mention the whole shitshow that is medium armor in Morrowind. Actually, the shitshow is a mingling of issues. Yes, you have a lot of slots for armor and clothing, but consider this: most players will try to optimize, and that means a light armor user will get full chitin at the tradehouse. That makes DB and glass the only viable upgrades unless you mix armor, which means you won't use medium unless it's the Ebony Mail. You see where I'm going with this? When you compound the lack of enchantment space on most armor, the variety is fairly empty, unless someone is ignoring playing optimally and goes for fashion.

Anyone who plays past the first playthrough will immediately remember and seek out cure disease options as they travel. The diseases become an annoyance rather than a challenge. Also, what idiots who post about the variety of diseases -always- neglect to post is that very early in the main quest, you become immune to diseases, negating their variety entirely.

As much as the game fucking sucks with its pay2actually have a reasonably good gameplay, the cities are amazing in BDO.

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i'll have you know the grocery store is more than 20m away from my house, just like many things needed in life

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