What do you think is the best and the worst 3rd party addition to Smash and why?

>Best

Cloud And Snake, they are gaming legends and nobody expected them to be there because they are pretty much Sony characters

>Worst

Joker and bayonetta, literally who, who are literally there just to promote persona 5 and bayonetta 2

Oh, and worst is Joker. Easily.

>one of those roster images from 2005

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Without cloud and snake, I'd say sonic but at the same time he kinda feel off hard isn't he?

It's hard to think of sonic as mario rival and it's easy to think of sonic as the avatar of furry autistic kids

I think they meant one of those rosters from 2005 without third party, find one of them.

This. Smash fell down the gutter when Cloud broke the criteria.

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Seething first partyfag

Stop bumping the thread, anticloudfag

That fucking Koei Tecmo box cracks me up
>H-Hello? Hayabusa-san, where did you go?

For the record, I've gotten over Cloud's inclusion, but not the damage he caused. Despite being super fun to play, he's the entire reason the third-party excess sparked in the first place. Because everyone jumped on his bandwagon, Sakurai saw it fit to ditch the Nintendo focus to appease to a broader demographic, which is EXACTLY what causes popular media to jump the shark.

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>dedede avatarfag hates cloud's inclusion
imagine my shock

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Remember, each company has like 3 characters. If someone pulls something slightly sketchy in the next 10 years then thats 3 of the third partys cut.

We ALL know that Konami will be fucking retarded again for example

>best
Sonic or Cloud
>worst
Bomberman since he should've been playable.

Joker and Bayo are the only ones that rub me the wrong way

At least Bayo makes sense. She's nintendo at this point. Joker should not be in and he's fucking 100% already cut from the next game

Mega Man and Simon were the best by far.
Banjo never deserved to be outright considered for Smash, and I hope he's so laggy he's unusable.

At least it's safe to say it won't happen again. Sakurai seems really pissed off that he was forced to add him

>best
snake
>worst
sonic

They're trash characters from trash games, I don't care who replies to me with their asshurt. Knockoff female dante courtesy of platinumshit and a bland self insert from a VN

here is your (you)

>Sakurai seems really pissed off that he was forced to add him
Source

I like Bayo but I agree. Smash sucks the cock of historically important shit like Bland Quest but then when it comes to action games the Dante knockoff gets in over the real king of action? That's just not right.

>>worst
>Bomberman since he should've been playable.
The correct answer

Best is Mega Man because I'm a Mega Fag

Worst is Bomber Man because he deserves more than being an assist

When he was interviewed about the 2 E3 newcomers he GUSHED about dragon quest and how much of an honor it was to work on it.

When asked about Banjo? He pretty flatly stated that western fans kept fucking bitching for him even though he already gave the west K.Rool and Ridley. He even ended it saying that he knows that they won't stop begging even after Banjo. It was a borderline rant

Eat shit Boco.

>DRAGON QUEST IS ESSENTIAL BECAUSE IT'S BIG AND HAS HISTORY
>eh... Bomberman? Meh who cares about history or legacy lets just throw in generic anime teen from a mediocre selling recent game and literally who bear
It's seriously bullshit. Fun fact: Bomberman was the first third party character to ever have a crossover with a Nintendo IP

>people whine that characters like Cloud and Joker shouldn't be in because they don't "properly represent their series"
>followed by requests for shit that nobody wants to play as, like a Chocobo

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>We ALL know that Konami will be fucking retarded again for example

Good, they have the worst picks imo, I get that Simon is an icon, but I still think he shouldn’t have gotten in, and MG is pretty much finished now, snake should be removed.

K. Rool is my boy so I hope Sakurai isn't salty over his inclusion. The entire direct with both K. Rool fakeouts seemed like good humor on his part. I don't hate Banjo or his inclusion and if this is true I feel bad for Banjo fans. Banjo's trailer being a repeat and Spiral Mountain being cobbled together Gaur Plain assets is rough to see, like they put in minimal effort

EVERYONE would play as Jack Frost. He's a perfect fit

so which Bamco rep we getting? Solaire/Artorias or Heihachi?

Fuck off, purist faggot

>K. Rool is my boy so I hope Sakurai isn't salty over his inclusion
I don't think he's outright salty, but it's pretty obvious that he was never going to be added on Sakurai's own terms

I can accept that Bomberman might not make a good playable character. He needed a stage though

Yeah what's the deal with Spiral Mountain? It's the ugliest fucking stage I've ever seen in Smash.

I don't get the distaste for Joker. They clearly have a focus on protagonists over mascots and Joker was probably the best Megaten rep. Not only is he from the most popular Megaten game, but Persona Q2 is basically an Etrian game, so he kind of reps that too. nearly every Megaten game has a different protagonist anyways.

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>I don't get the distaste for a fucking generic VN teen who will never appear in another mainline game ever again
Being new doesn't matter. Banjo proves that. There is no reason it's not Demifiend or Jack Frost

This...He was being sarcastic when he said he could see a future with more western reps getting in! Thank fuck he has a say on weather banjo will be a veteran next game, definitely seems unlikely

>when he said he could see a future with more western reps getting in
he never said this

Years worth of effort my fucking ass!

Even years after the buyout and parasitic absorption leading to death, this is still true
Enix > Square

Of all the characters to pick you pick Demifiend, who has even less presence on a Nintendo system than Joker does? Also, as I said, they clearly want to go for protagonists over mascots. They chose Cloud over Chocobo, they chose hero over Slime, and I'm sure the only reason we didn't get Pokemon Trainer in the first game was because of how complicated a character that can't fight is. Joker is a fine Megaten rep.

Pick someone from a game that was actually on a Nintendo console. Joker was the first new character reveal I was ever actively disinterested in, next to no one outside Japan knows who he is or cares. Least hype reveal ever, horrible way to start off when they're asking for money to play with these characters.

He's also fucking obnoxious to play against and is one of the best characters in the game, if not the best. His stupid persona or whatever the fuck it is slightly obscures what the character is doing, and because of ow fast he is it can be hard and annoying to read him as a result. His meter charges up after taking 25% damage or around that, which is retarded.

>presence on a Nintendo system
Not relevant

Says who?

May as well say we can have anime characters next, all these arbitrary """rules""" you idiots pull out of your asses get thrown out the window with every new game.

Just adding that since that's what most people criticize Joker for. See:

>they clearly want to go for protagonists over mascots
Ok? Like I said, pick an ACTUAL protagonist of SMT. One that people actually remember. And Cloud is the mascot of Final Fantasy.

Joker isn't SMT related, and he's not a real fighter. This is why he's the most wanted to be removed, and why people hate him more then Corrin

Sakurai confirmed that he doesn't care about platform

worst: bayo and joker
best: everyone else

We've run out of meaningful Nintendo characters.

Putting in shutters like Nabbit and Ashley would cause Smash to jump the shark way harder than iconic video game characters

>We've run out of meaningful Nintendo characters
This is such fucking bait

>Best
Activision or should i say Disney

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>only like 10% of Nintendo's IP catalog is repped in Smash
>"we're running out of characters"
lmao what?

Chocobo or Moogle would be the mascot of FF, not Cloud. Megami Tensei is way bigger than just SMT and what the hell do you mean he's "not a real fighter"?

>trying to make hero look like more characters than one

Not him, but is it really only around 10%?

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>Chocobo or Moogle would be the mascot of FF, not Cloud.
It's Cloud. That's a fact.

COPE

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Anyone else think these two are perfect for Smash? They could even get a trailer with Mr. Game and Watch.

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If SMT doesn't have a character iconic enough then it doesn't need to be in Smash. There is no reason to force a fucking spinoff Visual Novel that doesn't even qualify as video games in.

You're being ironic right?

>GOD how dare these troublesome roundeyes spend their money to enjoy my game AND THEN start requesting a bunch of shit, i fucking hate making money

Oh kid...

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Cuphead is now more iconic then Banjo so he 100% qualifies for Smash. Sakurai also loves Cuphead

I feel dumb for taking this long to realize i'm responding to bait.

>remaking the Goku one becaue you're angered by a fucking animal with shorts

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Cuphead is more beloved then Banjo, and Sakurai is a huge fan. Why wouldn't it get in?

Cuphead has also taken off HARD as a mega gaming icon. It even has a TV show

>If I get proven wrong then it's bait
Misusing Yea Forums terms should result in a one month ban

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You didn't prove anyone wrong. You said the dumbest shit imaginable to the point where you gave yourself away.

>bait is Yea Forums's downvote meme
lmao caught you, reddit user

No, I genuinely think they'd be great, and they would bring a unique and fun move-set to the game.
No need to try to start shit about Banjo, and also yes, Sakurai did praise Cuphead.

Proof he likes Cuphead?

We aren't obligated to suck Banjo Discord's cock. We can point out how bad it's sales were.
Cuphead is, without question, more popular then Banjo.

It isn’t right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’ COPE

But what does Cuphead have to do with Game & Watch? One is an indie game based on black and white cartoons from the 50s, and one is an original character introduced in Smash Bros. based on a line of handheld video game systems from the 80s. They're nothing alike.

Also... it's Cuphead. They're not gaming icons. If anything, the game's art style is way more recognizable than the characters themselves. Besides, adding them to Smash only takes away their magic (the art style of the game)

maybe as an assist trophy

twitter.com/allsourcegaming/status/923408397336064000?lang=en

He loved it enough that he followed it before release

Cuphead has one game. At best he's assist trophy status, like fellow one-game indie star Shovel Knight.

>it's Cuphead. They're not gaming icons.
Is this a joke? Cuphead is without question a huge gaming icon now. It's sold 5 million units, EVERYONE always talks about it, people make and buy Cuphead merch in droves, and he has a goddamn TV show

I'm not arguing that Banjo is more popular than Cuphead, you're blatantly trying to tart shit up against Banjo. He's an honorary Nintendo character, and always will be. He should've been in Smash since Melee and you people flinging shit will never change that. And also, Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie both sold over one million copies. And nice way to out yourself as a blatant false-flagger. Discord was the epicenter of Banjo hatred, and still are. WHy don't you fuckers get over it?

>and he has a goddamn TV show
So did Bubsy Bobcat.

>Cuphead has one game.
Bayo has 2. Banjo only has 2 real games. Why is Cuphead different?

>He's an honorary Nintendo character
No? He's a microsoft character in all shapes and forms.

Oh look at that. The Banjo discord is once again starting shit with other fanbases because it's illegal to ever say anything bad about a mediocre selling bear.

>Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie both sold over one million copies
Cuphead has sold over 4 million.

Bubsy never got a show. It was a rejected pilot

>shovel knight isn't a full character
>mfw
AT LEAST WE HAVE PAC MAN THOUGH RIGHT?

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Even if an increase in Nintendo characters happens, guess what?

Only 10% of Nintendo's IPs will be represented with a fighter even then. It's all just Mario/Pokemon/FE bloat. That's why third parties are better.

>5 million units
If we're going by stuff like that to determine whether a character should be in Smash, why aren't you pleading for Undertale characters in Smash? Undertale and Deltarune have made a much bigger impact than Cuphead ever will.

Banjo has three games, just because Nuts & Bolts sucked doesn't mean you get to ignore it exists. Personally, I think Bayo is a questionable pick too, but there it is anyway. The difference, as you so brilliantly pointed out yourself, is that these are franchise characters, two or three still counts as being a series. Even though Joker, another highly questionable pick imo, is only in one game, he's part of a series. Furthermore, The closest analog to Cuphead's status in video game history in Smash right now is Shovel Knight, another very successful indie game that, as of now, only has one game, is not a series, and is an assist trophy. I like the game Cuphead too, but it would be extremely unlikely that he would be elevated to Smash fighter status out of nowhere.

What?
I said Mr. Game and Watch because they'd be 2D like him, plus Mr. Game and Watch would translate well into their animation style. And please, buddy, we're past the point where you need to be a gaming icon. As far as your point about their art, I think Sakurai, along with Studio MDHR could make it work quite nicely. Look at Hero, Toriyama's work crossed over smoothly.
I don't know, I feel like they'd work better as fully functioning characters.
Hence why I said honorary, you dope.
You started this shit you fucking faggot. I have nothing to do with Discord, you fucking idiots just need put into your fucking places.

>why aren't you pleading for Undertale characters in Smash?
Because the discussion at hand is about Cuphead. Undertale is possible. I've never played it so I have no opinion.

I love how you tried to fucking throw Undertale as an attack because grrrrrrrrr Yea Forums gotta HAET undertale by law!! lmao

>You started this shit you fucking faggot.
>IT'S ILLEGAL TO POINT OUT ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT BANJO!!! BANJO IS KING BANJO IS KING BANJO IS KING NAYSAYERS WILL BE SHOT
Pathetic.

>but it would be extremely unlikely that he would be elevated to Smash fighter status out of nowhere.
Got any proof? He's got enough fame and popularity to work in Smash.

I like Undertale but to me it's stupid why you think Cuphead deserves a spot when there are other indie franchises that are way bigger icons than it that haven't been represented yet.

Undertale is one example, but obviously there are many others.

Bayonetta is an honorary Nintendo character. Banjo isn't Nintendo in any way shape or form. He's ALL Microsoft.

>it's stupid why you think Cuphead deserves a spot when there are other indie franchises that are way bigger icons
Sakurai doesn't care about who's bigger. Banjo proves that. The point is that Cuphead qualifies. He's MORE then iconic enough to be a fighter.

>He's got enough fame and popularity to work in Smash.
Maybe as an assist trophy, or more likely, a spirit. Or even more likely, nothing at all. I don't have to prove shit, I never claimed that my dad worked at Nintendo or that I had the inside scoop. I just find it very unlikely that they would impulsively add this flash in the pan character as a fully fledged playable fighter right away. In short, you're making the claim he should be in, you prove that first.

I'm still hoping we get Doomguy in.

>Maybe as an assist trophy
Nope. As a full fledged fighter. He's more iconic then a good handful of third party smash characters so he definitely fits

>Sakurai doesn't care about who's bigger
I know he doesn't that's why your argument of "HIS GAME SOLD WELL AND HE POPULAR SO HE GOTTA BE IN" is bullshit

>has consistently sold over 2 years to the point where he's at 4 million copies sold
>gets new media in tv shows and DLC
>People STILL talk about him
>"flash in the pan"
???

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He sold well, he's popular, he's requested. He's a perfect fit. There's nothing stopping him from being added. Will he be in without question? Probably not. Is he an objectively very possible addition? Yes absolutely.

We will, mark my words.

Only if he's 2D like Game & Watch, or better yet he's completely hand-animated by MDHR

>DOOM Guy before Crash and Leon
lmao

By set? Probably SEGA. 2 of their 3rd party reps are from recent games that don't have any real association with the brand, just recent accusations.
Konami probably has the best representation by far followed by Capcom.

How do you feel about the idea of a Souls character getting in as a potential 2nd Namco rep?

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>best
Ryu
>worst
Richter

bored.

I love souls but I don't fucking play it for the main character

Wonder Red would have made a better fit

Obviously.

See

See

but lemme guess geno or issac deserves it? by your logic like a 3rd of the roster should be removed because there "series is done"

See

This is the last time I'm saying this, so listen up. One game. Almost, but not quite two years ago. You say he's iconic because the game is relatively new, and also because you're more than likely an underaged individual. Cuphead is a great game, don't get me wrong, it deserves all the success it gets. But you made the claim that he's more iconic to videogames then characters like Pac Man, Sonic, Simon, Richter, DQ All Stars, Snake, or even Banjo. Bayo, Cloud, and Joker are questionable, I'll give you that, but the very least each developer of these games has some sort of past or present relationship with Nintendo. Do the Cuphead guys have a storied past with Nintendo? Considering their port came out way after PC and everybody else I'm guessing not. Also, I just do not see Nintendo giving a playable character to this random western indie developer. Assist Trophy, maaaaaaaayyyyyyyybbbbbeeeeeeeeeee

Not all of them, but most interesting Nintendo reps are already in. Maybe Porky, Chibi Robo, or a Kirby character. I'd much rather have another third party than another fucking pokemon or FEgness

The overall consensus I've seen across multiple sites as well as threads on Yea Forums is that Bayo and Joker are by far the worst inclusions, for the general reasons being that they got in for no other reason than blatant cross promotion or Sakurai having a personal boner for them.

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>Crash
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH

>Wanting indie over some of the top 5 industry icons
I seriously don't even know what the fuck to say. You're hopeless

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I don't know a single person who hates him more than corrin that's bs and you know it. Literally everyone i know was either hype for jokers inclusion cuz they like persona 5, or didn't play the games but had heard of persona 5 and thought he looked cool. Plus the whole "joker was the least hype" meme needs to die. Joker was easily more hype than hero by the sheer fact that he was the first and totally unexpected. My feed was filled with joker stuff for days. Hero was used as the opening act to fucking banjo and kazooie.

I wouldn't laugh user. He might be not too farfetched as you think.

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>IF I DIDN'T GROW UP WITH IT THEN IT'S NOT ICONIC REEEEE
Sakurai loves it
The gaming industry loves it
Cuphead is a gaming icon. DEAL WITH IT.

>Joker
>hype in any way
>more hype then the fucking king franchise of japan
Sounds like you're trying to cope with the fact that he's already cut from the next game

Just see

>joker
>hype
lmao weak bait

Literally see any reaction to him (especially the game awards audience one) and tell me that wasn’t hype, I triple fucking dare you!

>pick an ACTUAL protagonist of SMT
>SMT related
>Yea Forums STILL thinks SMT is supposed to be the main series

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Joker is more Sony than Sega to be honest

But how does this picture prove anything?

I literally just explained to you what i saw. I don't know what your experience was, maybe a lot of people you know were hyped for hero, but in the groups i follow and the news i saw joker was a hype pick. I have literally only seen people mad about it now that he's released and everywhere. It feels super revisionist. Also fuck off with the king of jrpg shit, just because it was first does not mean it needs to be venerated. Not once have i seen a DQ fan cite the quality of the games.its always "it's huge in Japan, or it's the first jrpg so it needs to be in". There is no such thing as " qualifying criteria" Sakurai includes whoever he wants because smash has no rules. This is fact and joker is just as likely to be cut as a hero is. It all depends on the direction they take the games moving forward something we have no clue about it

Banjo is microsoft? Wait what? Am i retarded

King franchise of Japan is dragon ball m8. Dragon quest ain't even top 5.

>make game to celebrate Japanese releases
>most of the characters are eastern in origin
>making ultimate dlc to branch out to other japanese studios
>across an ocean some pigheaded roundeyes won't stop sending you "literally who" and weird fetish porn about western franchises you barely know about

Sakurai's can reveal the turd I took this morning and Etika will raise from the game to make a reaction video.

are you a time traveler from before 2002 or something

Deal with this.

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>Best
Simon / Richter. There's so much fucking love put into Castlevania content in this game
>Worst
Sonic. He obviously deserves a spot in the game but his moveset is just so bland and unfun to play
Runner ups for worst probably go to Joker, simply because I don't give a shit about Persona, or Bomberman, because he got cucked, but those are just personal opinions

Even in 2005 (well, specially in 2005) Nobody gave a shit for Chris as the Resident Evil rep.

Granted, as it seems, it took Xenoblade to be a thing for Kosmos to be bring up into this.

>Best
Either Simon or Banjo
>Worst
Bomberman, mainly because the poor guy isn't a playable character.

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also the rayman spirit from Ubisoft. theres probably more you forgot.

>People barely recognized Simon when he was revealed, but everyone was expecting him because he had been force feed down the smash comminity's throat by every smash content creator.
>Richter was the least recognized character, of all the dlc.
>People just go along with Castlevania being so important, relevant and impactful, just because everyone else says it.
>Meanwhile new, relevant, popular characters like Joker and to a lesser extent Bayonetta are shitted on, because lack of nostalgia or whatever.
The smash community is so dumb.

He's a ninja, he's really good at hiding from sight

Ikr I hope the Belmont’s are cut next game, their shitty fans don’t deserve them.’

Hah. I was still a kid when i played it and haven't looked at it since, probably missed that detail.

Cuphead is more iconic than Castlevania and Bayonetta.

>More iconic than castlevania

Really nigger?

Castlevania has a genre named after it

>Joker was probably the best Megaten rep
He has one move that's from a Megaten game and it's only in there because they wanted to give another character a counter.

Sorry, Eigaon is from Megaten too.

doesn't change anything. Even the God of War developers recognize that Devil May Cry birthed the 3d hack n slash genre, but God of War sold much more than DMC ever did.

Persona is a spinoff of Megaten so he represents Megaten.

>Smash 8 is going to look like one of those roster images from 2005
and that's a bad thing because?

Cloud has no moves from non-VII FF games and his series in the music section is just listed as "Final Fantasy VII." Joker is a similar case where they just skimped on the content not relating to the specific game they are from. I guess not all 3rd parties can be treated as nicely as Dragon Quest.

what makes you so sure joker is cut? besides your hate for him because the obviously doesn't count.

3D Hack and Slash games are not called Godmaycry games. There's literally a genre called Metroidvania, dozens of games use Castlevania as a model and you're trying to argue that a one-off run and gun boss rush game is more iconic.

I want to make a case for Bayonetta here since people seem to dislike her.
>She's pretty much half owned by Nintendo now because Nintendo keeps subsidizing the games in exchange for making them exclusive. Essentially she's second party like Pokemon or Fire Emblem.
>She's the rep of Platinum games and Kamiya who heavily supported the Wii U and continue their support on the Switch.
>She makes for a decent enough second Sega rep because her games pay homage to many of Sega's classics, including Space Harrier, Virtua Fighter, Alex Kidd, and After Burner. She even brought After Burner music with her.

> HAHA MUH CUPHEAD IS BETTER THAN UR SERIES BECAUSE SALES

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