Why is this game so dumbed down?

Did they really have to highlight EVERY point of interest in the open world though?

mainstream success

it worked too

Yes otherwise players wouldn't have found them. A more backsceen version would have been to highlight point of interest only after you receive information about it. Walking around town, drinking, playing card games etc would have been a loreful/intuitive way without omnipotent knowledge from the start.

They made it for dumb people.

>Yes otherwise players wouldn't have found them
Isn't that the point of open world games? Discovery?

Cutting is shipping.

Yes but you also have to provide a way to help you learn about it. Maybe buy a map of bandit outposts or treasure etc.. learn about a rare cache by winning card game, or the Ubisoft method where you reach a scenic high point and discover some points of interest.

One of the best things about a bethesda game is happening upon something completely new in the world that you've never seen before. Yes, if you came within a certain distance some of the msot prominent places were market on your map, but some of the best places were unmarked. Back entrances, hidden forests or pools with treasure, random events etc etc etc. Certainly not EVERY point of interest marked on the map.

>The combat is absolute as-

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If you like this game you are literally a normalfag

Anything that is mass appeal is always dumbed down. Developers don't want to get a bunch of mail of retards crying about how they couldn't figure out something.

Comparing the best example you can pull from one game vs a fucking tutorial contract in TW3. Braindead comparison.

Ah yes, I love wandering around aimlessly for hours on end until I find the right NPC to talk to.

>calling someone a normalfag
Better that than an incel I guess

>Anything that is mass appeal is always dumbed down.
*blocks your path*

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>Anything mass appeal is dumbed down
>1984 and the Bible is dumbed down

Oh look, demon's souls 1.1 with cutscenes

Did someone post the horse pasta yet? Post it lads, makes me laugh every time.

What game did they copy with the Witcher 2

DeS has more cutscenes than DaS.

they made it for western audience obviously

Did it? Huh. So Dark Souls was just a straight downgrade.

Except scale of the map is much smaller in those games with natural choke points. Witcher is too big for its own good in that respect.

Witcher 3's design is much more in line with JRPGs. Refer to .

Better that way tbqh

>Except scale of the map is much smaller in those games
People don't like to talk about how half of Witcher 3's "size" is empty ocean.

A lot of gamers these days just want to watch numbers go up. Gaming is just a constant level grind. They don't want to be involved or have to think or struggle or overcome. They just want to relatively mindlessly switch off, follow an arrow, engage in the shallowest possible gameplay mechanics and then get some shiny stuff as a reward and a nice little dopamine bump.

I recently bought and played (still playing) Kingdom Come a week ago and that game is more engaging and rewarding in one 20 minute quest than Witcher 3 was for the entire fucking main storyline.
I had more challenge and enjoyment accidentally stumbling into a bandit camp and fighting tooth and nail to survive than I did the entire time fighting in witcher 3.

There’s no grind in TW3, it’s just a narrative and choice driven game. And it’s a fantastic narrative at that.

KGD is just boring as all hell to me. There’s nothing satisfying about having to delouse your clothing and eat and bathe. Games are supposed to be creative and entertaining, not a simulation. I don’t feel fulfilled walking around aimlessly for an hour when I could’ve been told where to go and gotten to the meat and bones of the experience.

If you want to be intellectually stimulated, games are not the medium for that.

>There’s nothing satisfying about having to delouse your clothing and eat and bathe.
There's literally a stew pot at every residence and you can get bonuses for not bathing, don't be such a baby

Yeah actually having to talk to NPCs, investigate areas in a world full of consequences and then approach the solution from a myriad of different angles depending on your own preferred play style is super boring.
Much better just to fucking fast travel to a waypoint, mindlessly slash through a half dozen paper enemies and get right back to the epic sorceress titty cutscenes before your brain overheats.

>no grind

Having to go up 15 levels just to equip a piece of armour I crafted... Not a grind at all. Levelling up doing the same fetch quests over and over and over again... Not a grind at all.

And what does it add to the experience besides consume my time? I play RPGs for choice and consequence, for interesting character and narrative arcs, and for general entertainment. If I wanted to boil my clothing why wouldn’t I just go hiking?

You’re a brainlet if you consider leveled gear, a cornerstone of RPGs since forever, a grind.

And you do talk to a thousand NPCs en route to completing quests in TW3, the difference is that you don’t have to spend hours finding them.

You get bonuses for not eating or eating, bonuses fro sleeping in the dirt or in a plush bed, bonuses fro being bathed or not, bonuses for dressing nice or not, bonuses for wearing armor or not etc etc etc

>Witcher 3 is a npc conversation sim
Yes we know

Sure, and all that applies to Fallout 4’s survival mode. An atrocious shit game like Fallout 4 manages to include those “deep” mechanics. Does that mean Fallout 4 is a good game? No, because games like Fallout 4 are judged on their writing and the depth of player participation in the questing.

So is Planescape Torment, which plays like a book more than a game but is still rightfully considered a great rpg. There is no problem with fuck tons of dialogue to build a world and offer choice.

Do you have an argument?

Planescape torment is a pile of shit of an old and forgotten age of gaming

>'waaa who do i have to talk to... I can't think for myself!'

It doesn't take hours to find anything unless you're thick as fuck. Quest givers and NPCs give you hints and it's up to you to figure out where to go. Hmm, looking for a gang of mercenary recruiters, perhaps they would look for talent at the local tavern, maybe I'll go there, oh look someone here can point me in the right direction...It's fun. You ask around, use your head, use the skills you've developed and follow the clues to your objective and then you decide from a number of ways to actually deal with it like in an actual RPG. If that's literally too hard for you then you are best sticking to RPGlite bullshit like W3 where you can almost just sit and watch the game play itself and pretend you're actually achieving something.

The game gives you choices and options and it's up to you to use them.

Yes, KCD is a boring pile of shit.
Zoo..zo..zoomzoom

So you don't have an argument and think your age just automatically makes you right. Thanks for clarifying

Because games focused on actual core audiences don't sell 20 million copies.
If you wanna get big you gotta do something the average joe can "play" through without problems, which is why Witcher games are kiddie shit.

>duhhhhh it’s fun to wander around

Why do brainlets want their games to provide an artificial sense of, what you called it? Achievement?

It’s a fucking video game you autist. Pick up a hobby, go to the gym, do something with your career, if you want real “achievement”. Games should be nothing more than a temporary escape, not a fucking surrogate for adventure and achievement.

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What are you referring to, dumbass? Be any more vague?

Firstly, what this guy saidSecondly, Gothic 1, 2, and especially 3 are fucking garbage compared to the Witcher games, and if you like the Eurojank THAT fucking much, Elex does it better then Gothic ever did.

I liked the role playing in the first Witcher a lot, but to be honest its really not super bad in the Witcher 3. I think people are complaining that CRPG style gameplay has slowly been replaced with easy access roleplaying. I do think simple fetch quests plague most modern rpg’s, and I’d unironically want more silent hill 2 type quests/puzzles in place, but I don’t think the majority of the Witcher 3 is really that bad. It’s well written enough that it still feels engaging to just ride around, especially if you turn off the minimap and objective markers

Git gud.

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I'm referring to you having no taste and pissing your pants because you've been playing games for 25 years and haven't matured at all. You're like a time capsule from the 80's-90's.

It's an RPG game you fucking div. 'ROLE PLAYING GAME'. The clue is in the name. You pick a role and then you play it out.

Also I bench more than you.

>Games should be nothing more than a temporary escape
I agree entirely, which is why I don't want a virtual boss giving me a laundry list of what to do in my fucking videogame, I already have to deal with that IRL, if I play an RPG I want at least a tiny bit of freedom to play like I want and have at least a pretense of customization, which Witcher games lack entirely, especially W3.

No argument, responds with a strawman. Well done.

Tell me fag, when was the last time you had an actual engaging quest?

Remember when you went to one island discovering a survivor who's held hostage to build a boat for the giant to sail forth to fight at Ragnarok? Or the cursed werewolf that came back everytime you killed him? Or that time you accepted that request to kill a Leshen only to find everyone slaughtered. As you investigated you discovered that they weren't killed by monsters but by a swordsman who only spared a little girl. Once you tracked him down with your "batman" senses you found out that he's a Witcher that the villagers tried to scam and kill. Luring him into a barn and then driving a pitchfork into his back, after which he lost is temper and killed the villagers. And its up to you to let him go or kill him?

Remember this? No you don't. Because all you're doing is completing a basic "get the sword" fetch quest with no interesting qualities to it whatsoever. I tell you once again, no matter how many ways you have to complete them, it wont make your shitty G2 quests more interesting. Even the shittiest basic quests in TW have more attention to detail than the boring shit with playmobil aestethics you sperg out over.

Not an argument. The gothic games still suck raw ass and no amount of nostalgia on your part will change that.

What GAME are you referring to, you utter fucking moron, my response included more people than just dumb little you

Go get your reading glasses you geriatric fuck

You know you can have multiple hobbies right? You know you can like multiple games for multiple reasons right? Not everyone sees games as escapism. If games are an escape for you and not just another way to spend your time like books or movies, then you’re advocating for games to stay parlor tricks of mechanics and flashing lights forever. I’m not advocating for dad of war style “maturity,” but not everything has to be “hurr video games can never be anything more than cheap Friday night entertainment”
What’s wrong with having it be both entertainment and interesting?

This shit, this right here is a large part of why people love the witcher games so much. The confrontation with the cat school witcher who slaughtered everyone in a town but for one little girl who reminded him of his sister is especially kino.

You’re playing the role of Geralt and your decisions affect the geopolitical landscape of the entire world, you non-squatting croc-wearing faggot.

There’s absolutely no difference, you’re referring to an illusion of choice. The difference between TW3 and the games you have in mind is that the laundry list is simply more vague. Instead of saying “go to Whole Foods and get milk” it just says “get milk” and you have to first figure out where Whole Foods is. Wow, such freedom.

That's not engaging. That's interesting storytelling and lore, which I admit the witcher 3 has in spades, but it's not engaging. There's nothing engaging about how you arrive at any of those quests or choose how to deal with any of those quests.

It's all the same shit. Follow arrow, kill enemy, follow arrow, talk to NPC with inconsequential dialogue that you don't even need to remember because it doesn't affect anything, follow new arrow and 'done'.

That's not engaging it's just a fucking 'hold a to win' gameplay with interesting characters and story wrapped around each side of it.

You rarely ever have to actually think about anything you do in witcher 3. You rarely ever are presented with any meaningful choices to make. Everything is handled in the same way with the thinnest veneer of player agency possible added in just so players don't quite realise they're basically just watching a TV show.

Unironically BASED

>illusion of choice
Witcher's pretty fucking linear user, there's almost no choice in how to play it.

You responded to a comment about KCD and PT. Kill yourself.

>and your decisions affect the geopolitical landscape of the entire world

not in any meaningful way that impacts your character, the world as you play in it, the way you approach and handle quests... Only in a way that may or may not slightly alter the outcome of the story.

If you sit two players down with a good RPG game they will end up with two distinct and different experiences. The game will present them with a myriad of ways for them to express themselves and interact with the game world and by the time they're finished they will have developed two very different characters with two very different and winding progressions.

You sit two different players down with Witcher 3 and they'll have an almost identical experience and will end up, for all intents and purposes, with the exact same character by the end bar a few superficial story elements, of course.

>Morrowind, 2002
All NPCs are killable
10 minutes of cutscenes, player is in control for nearly the entire game
Game world entirely open from the start
Thousands of different builds
Can go straight to the final boss from the start
World dynamically reacts to your actions

>Witcher 3, 2015
Most NPCs are essential
Fourteen hours of cutscenes
No builds
Game arbitrarily limits map progression
Have to follow a linear, scripted story
World is, overall, very static

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Of course it is, the allure comes from making decisions and choosing which bitch to fuck.

I've played video games since I was 4 years old. I've been playing RPGs since I was 6+ and could manage basic reading.

Witcher III is one of the best games ever created. People are just sad because there are because the main story doesn't make you savior of the world and king of everything.

Is this quest the equivalent of beyond the beef for NVfags? In it's the one quest everyone uses as a example of how great the game is when it's the exception and not the rule?

Your definition of rpg is relegated to that of pen and paper. This isn’t what the Witcher, since 1, ever was. You’re playing as a character with seven books of backstory. The way you choose and what your decisions do on the world around you has always been the defining feature of these games.

W-what's that sonny? I'm stuck in the 90's?

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Morrowind is boring as fuck and the writing is garbage. You could’ve picked a better example like Fallout 1

I’m 24. I’m not dumb enough to be afraid to play games that are older than me.

That's why I'm saying it's not a good RPG. It's an action adventure game with 'RPG elements thrown in'.
That's really my problem with it. It tries to straddle a line between action adventure and RPG and is not great at either.

The story is good. The lore is great. The world is brilliantly crafted and fun to exist in but on the action side the combat is paper thin, lacks strategy and challenge and on the RPG side nothing you do has any meaningful impact on the game world or the way you play the game.

That's why I think it's massively overrated. As a game it's just not good at any 'game' things it tries to do. It merely excels at creating a rich and detailed world 'story wise' which I guess is enough to carry it to such lofty acclaim.

You can turn off any functionality like that in the Witcher III settings and map settings specifically too if you want an old school RPG feel.

Oh so you have an elitist attitude because you play older games and pretend to like them? Is that all?

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Based.

No, I’m better than you because I don’t wince at the idea of not being instantly gratified. Try harder, seriously, try harder.

That's way too much time to put into one simple, and not very interesting, quest. Did everyone back then have an infinite amount of time for gaming

They wanted the normie audience.

bloody tampooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

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This.

People forget that “complexity” back in the day was added to pad out the content.

4 years later and you guys are still ass blasted.

s

im having fun so far anyways

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Is that a reskinned griffon?!

It bears the head of a cock!

>I’m better than you

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>its ok when literally every other fantasy game does it but not witcher because its popular

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They changed its name too, what is this new devilry?

How many of the mobs in the game are reskinned? 50%? How many share the same animations and skeletons?

>everyone here jerks off over dragons dogma when its literally reskins the game
>another game does it? wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

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It's consolized. The first game is exclusive to PCs, and has SOUL like several on-screen mouse-based menus. The second, a bit less so, but it got every patch, upgrade, and additiional content on PC after those appeared on Xbox 360. Witcher 3 was designed on Xbox One and PS4, and ported to PC.

Sure, I love Witcher 3, but it dumbed itself down too much.

I am better than you

tw1 is a fucking travesty and no amount of trying to be contrarian will change that. the game got much better in the second one.

So you're not allowed to talk about witcher's shortcomings because other games have done it before too?

It's not dumbed down, you are just too intelligent for it. It's time for you to leave this place and search a new hobby.

its just hilarious that people do nothing but sperg out over tw3 for little shit like that yet give every other bootleg ass fantasy game a pass for it.

Well it is championed as "the best game every made" but most of its gameplay is just petty industry tricks

It’s clearly dumbed down when TW1 made me stop and think from time to time and I breezed thru TW3 without a single thought

Witcher quests have alternative solutions idiot and if you don't find the narrative in these games engaging enough then that's your problem. For me, a decent story, fun action/rpg combat, interesting dialogue and plenty of T&A make the witcher trilogy some of the most fun I've had with a game recently. Gothic by contrast sucked ass and I'm glad I didn't waste too much time playing it.

now user, no need to diss Gothic just because some fags use it to shitpost

>All NPCs are killable
What does that matter?

>Why does player agency matter in an RPG

WRPGs aren't exactly smart games

>morrowind
>you roleplay as a blank slate self insert
>kill people if you want whatever
>witcher 3
>you roleplay as a defined character who wouldnt go on random massacres for no reason
its almost like theyre two completely different games with very little actual points of comparison

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Witcher 3's design ethos has far more in common with JRPGs than WRPGs.

Hey guys what I think we all need to understand is that different gamers enjoy different aspects of games and that's okay! There's plenty of video games for all tastes! :D

Oh but that's wrong, there's plenty of need to diss shitty jankfests like Gothic and it's sequels so long as morons on here continue to hold them up as being some sort of holy grail of game design.

>you roleplay as a defined character

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>you roleplay as a defined character

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Dude literally has amnesia you stupid cunt.

yes that is what any rpg without a nameless faceless main character is

>rpg

So does Geralt from the Witcher

>a game has to have character creation to be a rpg

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>geralt has amnesia
>game starts with twenty minutes of exposition
(X)

>every game is an rpg

so retards, like journalists or half this board, praise it

>no game is an rpg

an rpg

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you roleplay as the whiny girl in life is strange then

>every game is aN rpg

I roleplay as master chief

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>rpg games need to have dialogue choices!
>w-wait, witcher has that? uh, t-they need to have stats and skills
>h-hold on, it has those too? w-well, you need to be able to customize your character's appearance!
>shit, you can change that too? well, if i can't make a female character with big tits it's not an rpg!

Funny, I don't see any spammers in here

>how DARE you criticize TW3?!
lol

>witcher has more than two dialogue choices
>witcher has player stats
>witcher has character creation
Proof?

play the game
play the game
learn to read

If witcher 3 has more than two dialogue choices that's news to me

Oh there's more than two sometimes. It's just that usually it's
>Continue your exposition dump
>Insane response (Aggressive/Start combat)
>I do not want to accept this quest
>I would like to trade

he is better than you

>A lot of gamers these days just want to watch numbers go up. Gaming is just a constant level grind. They don't want to be involved or have to think or struggle or overcome. They just want to relatively mindlessly switch off, follow an arrow, engage in the shallowest possible gameplay mechanics and then get some shiny stuff as a reward and a nice little dopamine bump.

The sad reality of it all.

Back again I see.

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>implying most of the idiots posting ITT didn't play WoW and feed that very beast

>comparing witcher to wow
Is this supposed to mean something?