Why aren't esports taken more seriously like chess is?

He is a jew so he probably blood libels kids, though its a nazi myth unlike holocaust LOL.

>whereas no one is impressed that your twitchy reflexes make you good at Counterstrike or League of Legends.
then why do people watch sports like football, baseball, etc
it has nothing to do with intelligence, just running fast and having good reflexes
total brainlet sports

I do enjoy the concepts of DotA's items and heroes, they are thousand times better but the game itself is bad.

>but the game itself is bad
You see it as bad because you do not understand it at a high enough level. It is unironically the single best esports around.

>>Character is an Egyptian god
>Great at a children's card game
kek

The mathematical complexity and the problem space of games like dota, league or starcraft are infinitly bigger than that of chess though.

There is a reason chess was the first stepping stone of machine learning in the 90's and a self learnign AI actually playing Starcraft 2 on a strong level was a milestone just last year.

Chess has been part of our culture for 1000 years.
Vidya for 30.
Give it time.

change the name from esports to something else. The fact that it's called sports despite not being one annoys people

>then why do people watch sports like football, baseball, etc

I can't make a case for every sport, but in general those are liked because they're physically based and the emphasis isn't on intelligence or cunning to begin with. Boxing would be a good example of liking a sport based on the "physicality" aspect of it. I personally don't like football, baseball, etc. and agree that it's brainless to watch them, but I can understand liking them a lot more than I can people being interested in e-sport garbage like Dota 2 tournaments.

With competitive videogame sports, these require neither peak physical performance nor any intelligence whatsoever, it's just really sickly looking 20 year olds with twitchy reflexes and too much time on their hands.

Chess is ubiquitous. Everyone, globally, knows how to play it. It's also cheap and there's no random elements

>chess taken seriously in 2019
It's not. It went through a fad phase just like any esports and died later.

>Everyone, globally, knows how to play it.
user the majority of people in almost every country are too retarded to learn even the basics of chess growing up

I do and its why I think its bad. Its really stale and absolutely not as mechanical as LoL. Its just a muh complexity cope when in reality its just the same abusing all over again. It seems like you're the one who doesn't understand LoL at higher levels.

That implies chess is taken seriously.

fucking nobody even knows how to move the chess pieces

>Blatently lying to himself
what a pathetic cope

I'm pretty sure you'd have to explain checkers to most people you'd meet on a street. Nobody plays those games anymore when they have a smartphone with better shit in their pocket 24/7.
Poker maybe, but not fucking chess.

Dota is pure strategy, ugly and clunky. League is a healthy balance between strategy and an action fighter. Hence why it has a bazillion more players. League makes you feel good about yourself crushing someone, dota is just autism simulator.

>not as mechanical as LoL
That's the problem of League of Legends. You lose in the first ten minutes, you lose the game. Gold differences can not be overcome. Meanwhile, in DotA 2, you can and WILL see comebacks, even well past the fourty minute mark, when all hope seems lost. Not to mention that DotA 2 doesn't have a fixed, forced meta put in place by the developers of the game, which makes games play out in radically different ways, which makes it more enjoyable to watch, which makes it a better esport, and debatably also a better game. Now fuck off back to your beehive, worder drone. Winnie's coming over for an impromptu inspection later.

youtube.com/watch?v=0RHLtx9r2LA

1. Video games as a competitive sport is still really new, so only younger generations are even familiar with it
2. Competitive gaming has never been really big in the english speaking countries, they only dominate a handful of popular games
3. Right now a lot of new games are trying to appeal to the esports scene and it gives esports less of an identity while it figures out what sticks and what doesn't.
4. Most Esports games succeed because they're a spectacle, which almost always means flashy gameplay. It doesn't necessarily mean a top level starcraft player doesn't do as much thinking as a top level chess player, but it's less obvious to the spectator because it isn't the focus, everything about their gameplay is so above your understanding you just accept that you could never do it rather than questioning what it would take to play at that level.
5. They are, when the conditions are met. Faker was nothing less than a genius in his prime, and people who don't even care about league of legends have read about his career, or watched his highlights. It takes a superstar to elevate a sport. If a game lasts long enough it will get one, and elevate the competitive scene.

Both DotA and LoL are kiddie games with zero difficulty.
That's why autochess is becoming so popular because it throws aside any semblance of skill and reduced everything to dice rolls.

And in the event that they don't know how to play, it takes all of 2 minutes to explain how.

Once again you're wrong, there are enough late game champions. Also dota comebacks are not really such that require any skill. You can completely deny 4+ levels in a lane and a few minutes later he will be the same as you and if not even more. As for the forced meta, its a meme and its always being played around.

>Everyone, globally, knows how to play it.
You're mistaking the anglosphere for the globe, and even then it's sketchy. How many people do you think know all the pieces move? And then about en passant and castling? But then how many fully know rules, like the particulars about illegal moves?

It takes 2 minutes to explain but not 2 minutes to commit them all to memory.

What do you think is the most difficult game? Keep in mind there are millions of people dedicating their life to play both of these games at the highest possible levels which are far from kiddie tier games.

>Hence why it has a bazillion more players
OH NO NO NO

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>The Deadly Gamesman
>Jew
What did they mean by this?

Fucking SC2 didn't exist in the 90s. Maybe that's the reason why instead of muh complexity.

I feel like only games with an isometric camera like League of Legends and Dota work.
With FPS's you can't really see all the action.

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>It takes 2 minutes to explain but not 2 minutes to commit them all to memory.
Correcting someone who moved a piece wrong isn't really that big of a deal.

Bobby Fisher became a pariah for naming them though

There's blackjack tournaments, your argument isn't really helpful.
As for the most skill based game that doesn't require physical exertion, probably Go, with Broodwar in second place.
Fighting games are really weird, so I can't comment.

He is a self hating jew.

>Why aren't esports taken more seriously like chess is?

Videogames in general still have the stigma of "dumbs hit for kids" in the eyes of the general population. Chess has the advantage that it's like 1500 years old and was designed for kings and rich noblemen from the very start.

kikes claim Fischer is a kike*

I know but because they didn't accept them. He is hypocrite.

>The mathematical complexity and the problem space of games like dota, league or starcraft are infinitly bigger than that of chess though.

Only on a purely technical level though as 99.9% of minor permutations of a given Dota/Starcraft/whatever "position" are completely irrelevant to how the game will play out. In chess every single change in the position can result in a cascading effect throughout the entire game and radically alter it, which is why even an "inaccurate" move in chess can cost you severely as it has a cascading effect.

This is also the reason why computers got good at chess relatively early, because seemingly minor tactical mistakes or anti-positional moves snowball into game crushing defeats given that your opponent plays accurately. Since computers don't have the typical human problems with conventional blundering (but yes even supercomputers can and do make positional inaccuracies in their moves) like losing a tactical combo 10 moves deep, a computer will have overwhelming odds against even grandmasters simply because no one is perfect and the odds of you making not a single inaccurate move in a 50+ move game is really low even at high levels.

People say that Go, Starcraft, etc. is more "advanced" or "complex" than chess and they try to prove this by showing how much longer it took for computers to get good. The problem is people who say this don't know what they're talking about as they have no idea behind the methods computers actually get good at any particular game to begin with.

see this

Because Chess has over 1000 years of history, where as any given competitive video game is unlikely to break even a few decades before being forgotten.

True
hmm...
Now I'm imagining a game paced in the style of Uncharted or The Last of Us but with chess games instead of gunfights. The first chess game the player plays, they'd be like a kid and every time they made a wrong move or a poor one, the opponent (who would be their mom or older brother or something) would snidely correct them. Would be a great way to stealthily put a tutorial in without resorting to pop ups or manuals.

Solved and boring.

>There's blackjack tournaments, your argument isn't really helpful.
>but bloodwar apm fest is doe nigga
So you have a mental disability? Why do you classify MOBAs as blackjack? Lets see your reasoning, I want to see some pure retardation and lack of critical thinking.

videogames are made for children.

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> The problem is people who say this don't know what they're talking about as they have no idea behind the methods computers actually get good at any particular game to begin with.

But i do know most current machine learning models.
And the problem space of starcraft IS bigger and the decision making is harder to learn than for chess.

Carnal pleasures are effeminate as well but you don't admit that so what is the problem?

Sorry pal, DotA games are just RTS where you control one unit and don't build structures.
I tried playing it but it's just too impossibly boring for me. The greatest test of ASSFAGGOTS is not falling asleep while playing it.

Explain.
Not even him

Chess has had hundreds of years for the meta to evolve and mature, just as the culture surrounding the game has evolved and matured. When a video game is successful, it will inevitably have a sequel which changes things so the meta can never be as complex or nuanced. There are exceptions like Starcraft 1 and Melee, but in the latter case fighting game players and the wider Smash community hated Melee players because of their unwillingness to adopt new games. It's exactly this type of want for what's new and flashy that is preventing esports from becoming as respected as chess. This is observable in a case like Tetris, which is a respected esport in the mainstream, and has also had decades for the scene to mature in both its culture and play style.

tl;dr Street Fighter pros that play SFV instead of SF3rdS solely because 5 is new is what's preventing esports from being taken seriously. The scene looks shallow due to their chasing of what's modern and flashy, and in changing games every 5-10 years the meta of each respective game is doomed to be in a perpetual state of noncompetitive infancy.

Autistic playerbase.

>where you control one unit and don't build structures

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For anyone in this thread that isn't a braindead NPC faggot, read about what was done to Bobby Fischer. Then move on to reading Ryan Dawson's articles about the Jews who were literally gunned down by Israeli high command on state orders for trying to leave Israel. They will fucking massacre anyone that compromises the tribe. Fuck zionists.

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Good job you quoted me.

>dude I love multitasking and focusing on quantity rather than quality
So you're an african with an atrophied prefrontal cortex. Thought so, you have to click and do something to stimulate your decaying brain instead of thinking.

SOUL vs SOULLESS

>was going to make a "if Chess is so good why isn't there a chess 2" joke
>look it up
>it exists
>there's even a chess randomizer made by Fischer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960

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>his is also the reason why computers got good at chess relatively early, because seemingly minor tactical mistakes or anti-positional moves snowball into game crushing defeats given that your opponent plays accurately.

Example:

The 1956 "Game of the Century" between a 13-year old Bobby Fischer and International Master Donald Byrne.

In this game, Fischer (playing Black) demonstrates noteworthy innovation and improvisation. Byrne (playing White), after a standard opening, makes a seemingly minor mistake on move 11, losing a tempo by moving the same piece twice.

Fischer pounces on this mistake and the fact that Byrne has left his king in the center of the board with brilliant sacrificial gameplay culminating in a queen sacrifice in exchange for an attack against Byrne's exposed king.

youtube.com/watch?v=wzXjiyP2N1U

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>He doesn't understand why he's wrong
I pity you, based retard.

It is unironically because gamers look like antisocial shutins, instead of well dressed academici

western culture is influenced by appearances and social status to an incredible degree. take a look like pic related, who's obsession/hobby is locking himself in a damp room with other men doing repetitive movements and pumping himself full of drugs for the sole pursuit of vanity

yet he is worshipped to the degree of eventually attaining political power. It doesn't matter what your hobby actually entails. Most people take about 6 seconds to make a snap judgement of you, based on your looks, posture and way of speaking

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>Comparing a single server of lol vs the entirety of dota2.

when was the last time chess players were fighting for 30 million dollars in prize money?

Bobby Fischer was a jew, but he was notorious for hating jews. You should look up his quotes about jews, they're amazing.

Isn't this the equivalent of "sc-pro forfeits match because he missclicked a single drone at the start"?

Apparently minor mistakes snowball just as hard there.

The exceptions aren't even good exceptions to begin with however since they are both past their prime and are relatively new games compared to sports.
Both games are considered solved too.

Wait until all the retarded boomers are dead.

I don't think you actually know what effeminate means.

Not even bringing computers into this, another problem with the supposed 'complexity' of computer games in general is how much information is hidden from the player, or simply not made with interaction in mind. An example is visual input. A 'more complex' chess could be made with thousands more spaces in a board of the same size, say, as many as whatever pixels would fit in your favorite board. Certainly the computational complexity would skyrocket, but the game would become impossible to even play, you couldn't even make out the pieces not to mention that amount of information is impossible for a human to process simultaneously. A game like this would be worse because you couldn't possibly strategize it, even if it has more possible moves. The solution videogames have to this is, like you mentioned, to make most of the information presented to the player completely irrelevant. And whatever information is actually necessary to run the game is hidden. MOBAs are rife with these fixes (this is not an indictment), 10% of your screen has more relevant information, in the minimap, than in the remaining 90% put together. It's very important to distinguish computational complexity from game complexity.

>LoLbabby trying to justify their mindnumbingly boring blamefest of a game
Oh I'm laffing.

This. One look at the introduction of esport teams is enought for me to make my evening. Fucking pudgy teens, VRFPS esports was senile boomers, it's a sorry sight.

>Perfect World servers don't exist
OH NO NO NO

I don't think it needs any explanation.
Please tell me what it means, I'm pretty sure you're the one who think it means only some powerbottom sissy fag. Its okay, people like you die clueless throughout their whole life.

Nice

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I'm just glad it did not become a thread about his hate for Jews even though it's pretty based.

Thanks for proving me wrong, can't even string a sentence to disprove something so "bad".

So you're retarded and/or baiting, got it.

Because chess is very old so everyone alive grew up with it. E-sports is a very new phenomenon that everyone over 30 is unfamiliar with. E-sports will be taken seriously in 20 years.

Chess is hundreds of years old.

Video games are not.

I needs explanation.
Explain how carnal pleasures are effeminate.

>Doesn't know the simplest ideas of history
>its my fault
Yep, the state of you

Chess is "solved" too, but it's still a respected game.

That has nothing to do with the actual game. If you had people with Parkinson's Disease play Starcraft that does not make Starcraft more complex or more "snowbally".

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Its quite simple, it stops people from greatness and removes their power. Its a really famous concept.

It's honestly kinda amazing how ubiquitous the phrase "children's card game" has become for YGO at this point considering it was said as a joke 15 years ago.

There's nothing to disprove.
>click on monsters
>click superability
This is the extent of ASSFAGGOTS gameplay. It's mindblowing to me this can go on for half an hour. No wonder Overwatch and other cartoon shooters are popular when this is the alternative.

Except gold differences CAN be overcome, especially in the late game. It's all strategy then.

>chess
Fucking faggot kids and their stupid time wasting games I swear

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>There is no management and high level strategy that your brain obviously can't even comprehend
So its nothing like clicking all the time and just moving some units, don't see any improvement here.

Enjoy playing with peruvians I guess.

This guy knows what he's talking about
Machine learning is really exciting, but it unfortunately doesn't really adress the core point of what I believe
was saying. Most of the perceived complexity of videogames is "noise" that can be safely disregarded. For example, in Starcraft you shouldn't waste computing time every time a worker finishes to decide whether you need to build a new worker, you just keep queuing up workers until certain parameters are met.

It's really hard for AI to seperate these useless decisions from relevant ones on their own, and machine learning models are no better at it. You can circumvent this by adding human analysis in the mix and telling the model what data to look at, but this just goes to show how far we're still removed from a true "general" AI

>Chess is "solved" too

So is chess a forced win for white, a forced win for black, or does it draw with perfect play?

You're talking about cumbrain I assume? That's more of a male phenomena. I mean, what have you accomplished on no fap, let's hear it.

Chess is better designed and better balanced than the average multiplayer video game and contains no RNG elements.

Show me five professional games where a 20% gold difference was overcome. I'll wait. For DotA 2, even larger differences in both gold and exp were overcame multiple times in the TI9 qualifiers.

>Only sex is self destroying
I guess some people are simply meant to be slaves.

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You dont really deserve it but seeing how bad you crave them here is a pity (You)

Maybe if you weren’t autistic you’d realise that to virtually every person out there the statement “rook takes queen” sounds a lot more sophisticated than “Altria the Ice Dragon uses gloves of vampiric delight to steal 70 mana from Chalgoth the Unknown!”

So its about vapid shallow perception. How sad.

Because normies haven't really accepted vidya culture, they have merely culturally appropriated it. Same with memes, anime and other "weird nerdy" stuff that normalfags would call you a basement dwelling manchild for enjoying. There is still quite a bit of stigma around unironically being a gamer with plebbit subs like r/gamersriseup existing that have shamed the term "gamer" to the point where it's become a complete joke. Society as a whole still looks down on "weird nerdy" stuff like gaming, anime and the people who enjoy these said things, it's just that now people use the term "neckbeard" instead of "nerd" because now just being a star wars/marvel fan makes you a "nerd".
Fucking this.

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Yeah RTS have more positioning than just 1-2-3 lane, you have buildings, more than 1 unit and actual strategy besides which shiny item you get. You don't even need to take RTS as an example, literally any other game that has a competitive setting is more complex than DotAclones.

Elaborate further.
Please, let me know how independent you are and what great thing you've accomplished.

Another great cope, I would probably die out of shame if I had the brain of yours.
>which shiny item you get
So moving some drones makes you some super skilled hacker player, wow user. Imagine if every single pixel was an unit, it would be so much better, we don't need to think, just have 300 apm and its enough.

Whats on the outside matters just as much as what's on the inside.

So this is a case where society is right, Vidya should be a fun hobby to relax, not some obsession masquerading as a sport. Story based games are fine too, but the "all games r art!" fags do way more damage to the medium by pretending last of us or whatever is any deeper than your average HBO show.

What have you accomplished user, you seem to be resenting at the fact that you're some failure of a roastie or some tranny that shouldn't have gotten her dick cut out.

>Most of the perceived complexity of videogames is "noise" that can be safely disregarded. For example, in Starcraft you shouldn't waste computing time every time a worker finishes to decide whether you need to build a new worker, you just keep queuing up workers until certain parameters are met.

Bingo. Also what
said is also relevant.

Computers get good at games largely through their huge advantage in the ability to brute force solutions/optimal play through sheer processing power.

In a game like Starcraft you have absolutely massive maps (relative to the fixed 8x8 grid in chess) and multiple units on both side that can be scattered about trillions of different points. Since the primary advantage of computers is their ability to brute force solutions, any game that has massive amounts of totally meaningless permutations swamps their processing ability with "information overload", as sifting out irrelevant data from the data that's actually needed for winning is itself a major drain on a computer's brute force abilities.

Games that bog down computers with computational complexity through totally meaningless permutations has no bearing on the actual game complexity.

To put it bluntly, anyone who thinks something like Starcraft, Dota, League of Legends, etc. is more complex than chess is likely a moron.

>ZvT in Brood War
>micro mistake early on gets a drone killed
>two minutes later, the zerg player has 135 fewer minerals than he would have had otherwise
>this delays his spire by 10 seconds
>midgame is starting and terran needs to stop the zerg from expanding
>the zerg doesn't quite have the mutas he needs to harass the terran away from him
>zerg spends too much money defending against that push on sunken colonies and lings, third base is delayed by a few minutes
>terran uses this economic rift to kill off the zerg completely before he can get to his stronger lategame

SC is absolutely a game where minor mistakes can cause big ripples in the game.
Especially when the players are good enough to capitalize on them.
This is not an isolated example. Obviously, you could destroy any important building at the right time and that drastically changes the game until it's rebuilt

Its not entirely brainless depending on the position played. Quarterbacks need a lot of situational awareness and be able to make quick decisions based on what they expected to see and what they actually see. Good ones can pull out a good play even if shit falls apart. That's about it for the intellectual part of football. I mean others do have them but they have less on their plate both before and after the ball gets hiked.

There's only one answer and it's the fact that chess is "old" and has a lot of history. As games slowly get more history they will start garnering more respect and being taken seriously, also games have yet to stand the test of time (they are in the process of doing it e.g. the revival of many old games such as SC1 in Korea right now).

Whenever something new pops up everyone feels the need to criticize it and say how much it isn't like "old" things, like how bigwig industry retards and artists say dumb shit like how video games cannot be art because it doesn't conform to their original conception of it, they are so used to expecting things that are artistic, or masterful, to be centuries old, that when something new pops up and lacks that history that the other things have their retarded normie brains can't comprehend that no new mediums will ever come to exist or no sport will ever be taken seriously that hasn't already existed.

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I'm a straight white man. I own my house, I'm fit, I play a number of instruments—reguoar stuff. I guess if you're wondering I'm preparing my first novel for publication. It's been a long road but I just got accepted with a literary agent and I'm expecting options before Christmas.

Get another few thousand games in LoL and maybe I'll let you micro one of my marines.

because bing bing wahoo isn't chess

Yeah sure, still doesn't mean anything at all, especially with your reasoning.

But then I will be able to destroy you with a single marine while you spazz out and brake your mouse.

>complex games require more intelligence
it's pretty much the opposite

This, its why athletes are so intelligent, right.

>Student athelete graduates stem/buisness
>You drop out and post on a Mongolian basketweaving forum

Because Chess doesn't have gamerfood like chaos peanuts and BRAAAP nuggets infused with caffeine and cum

>posts anime
>gives dumb opinion

Checks out.

My reasoning is that you argue that, and I paraphrase, "Carnal pleasures stops people from greatness and removes their power. Its a really famous concept," and that this quality is "Effeminate."
I presumed you had some secret life formula and likely achieved a great deal. When I pressed you further to see what you achieved, you turned it to me, and to be honest I'm pretty proud of my accomplishments and I work pretty hard. But I guess you aren't.

(not who you replied to)
What you dota-only dudes need to understand is that League changes DRASTICALLY, every single year, and has been ever since the game came out
what you're saying is one of the points I was making about the game like 7 fucking years ago, but League is an entirely different game now
there are way more characters with way bigger swings in their potential output in a fight
practically no gamechanging point-and-clicks anymore at all, except Malz, for legacy reasons
your information is outdated
almost every important ability can happen to hit no one and be useless, or hit everyone and win the fight
and there are no buy-backs, so that team will stay dead

but you're right that I'm not going to bother referencing you any games, Mobas are extremely boring to watch for me

>15 Years ago

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Which is why league is only balanced around one team comp and the only thing changes do is change what hero is best at a given role and what role is strongest at the time amirite?

I agree fuck mobas, but at least DotA has a little more variety.

So what does that means, most of them can barely speak and think. So you're authoritarian only when it suits you?

Yes, Yugioh Abridged has been aorund that long.

Video games are not a sport and are for children. They will never be as serious as a game tried and tested for thousands of years

>chess
>being taken seriously

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Chess has had literal centuries to build a following. Give it a decade or two.

Old games are losing popularity, not gaining it.

Okay, since you have a peanut brain I'm going to explain it a bit. When you do such things you affect other people, just because you have achieved some things that are pretty average and didn't even require brain one decade ago it doesn't mean anything. Just because you're some selfish retard who thinks acting like a kid won't lead to long term disasters doesn't mean they won't happen. Soon you will be conquered by such people because while you care about yourself they walk in packs and have no remorse to kill and torture you through the most cruel ways possible. Though its pointless to talk with people like you nature does its own thing, its like trash sorting itself.

Why do we call competitive vidya esports when chess and scrabble aren't called board sports.

How am I deflecting to authority here? Nor how is level of education indicative of someone's level or creativity?

You should really stop being so close minded

>still doesn't address the fact that athletes are borderline retarded
I guess it ends here.

advertisers

If you can sell your event like a football game, you'll have a better time with sponsors then selling it like a chess tourney.

>League changes DRASTICALLY, every single year
League of Legends five years ago: 1 top, 1 jungle, 1 mid, 2 bottom
League of Legends today: 1 top, 1 jungle, 1 mid, 2 bottom
Wow, such drastic changes! Meanwhile, DotA 2, five years ago, was mostly centered around four supporting heroes feeding one hard farming carry to facerape everything come lategame. Laning setups ranged from trilanes to 1/1/1/1/roamer to the traditional 2/1/2, to aggressive trilanes. Nowadays, DotA is a lot more mid and lategame teamfight oriented, where there is a distinction between cores and non-cores, with the cores being given farming priority until they reach a key item, and THEN the non-cores get to farm. Laning strategies are as varied as ever, with level 1 five man deathball making a small comeback, along with 2/1/1/1 and 2/1/1/roaming and 1/1/1/2 roamers.

You're raving like a maniac schizo. I don't even know what you're talking about. Take your meds.
No one is taking anything from me. Project your weaknesses and fears on someone else.

Nice cognitive dissonance.
>nobody is taking anything for me
Many have spoken these words before experience it.

To expand further on the importance of "noise vs data", Starcraft is actually a very good example. Look what a hobby project in 2011 was able to achieve by focusing solely on one aspect of the game
youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs

If you'd add some basic strategy on this with traditional AI techniques to give it some really solid builds with aggresive timings, you'd already have an AI that pros would struggle against.

mobas have literally hundreds of objectives across the map. Every minion and monster has risk and reward tied to it. Skilled players are analyzing all of this, and coming out with the best thing to go for.
At the same time, they're thinking about what their opponents are going to go for, and how to deny or slow them down.
All five of them. In babyman RTS, you only have to think about what your one opponent is doing. (just kidding, obviously RTS has depth in other places, because that's how competitive games work)
And nothing you kill gives gold or power, you can just leave your workers to do that for you
All you need to do is make expand and then defense it

During a fight in LoL, you're thinking about all the cooldowns on all SIX of your opponents abilities, and the unique things they can do based on the context of the fight.
During laning phase, you're manipulating where your minions are standing and fighting based on where you predict the enemy jungler to be, based on your knowledge of the meta and vision on the map. A good player will give up gold or HP just to move their minions away from the enemy tower. Or to push them INTO the enemy tower so it will bounce back in the near future. This kind of difficult decision making is called "strategy"

These are different fucking games. Your argument is 99% as stupid as "you only control one unit in counter strike, easy game"

>League of Legends is way more intellectual
Lmao, have the top LoL players in the world take an IQ test. Do the same with the top chess players and then come back to me

You have the cognitive dissonance.
You're a young man in your early twenties that acts like the sky is falling and that they have all the answers because you stopped jerking off and read trash like Kermit, but when confronted by inquiry into your personal enterprise, you lock up and crash and rave about people being conquered. People like you never accomplish anything of note frankly, nor do you submit anything of note.

What do you mean, you think Faker or Caps or whatever won't have a really high IQ? Its just that chess has longer history.

most "esports" are very casual

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>You're a young man in your early twenties that acts like the sky is falling and that they have all the answers because you stopped jerking off and read trash like Kermit
saving that for nofap threads on /fit/

>make expand and then defense it
i didn't expect these feels user

No.
And you'd know that if you played the game

wowee, you found one thing that stayed the same, I guess that means 10 years worth of champion and item design philosophy changing drastically is meaningless now!
The massive, numerous changes to bounties, dragons, baron, inhibs, and super minions must mean nothing about SNOWBALLING compared to what lanes the guys walk down for the first 14 minutes
Also, there have been double jungle periods, double mid periods (funneling), triple bot periods, and triple top periods in League's lifetime
but I guess just ignore that

I'm sure they'll have above average IQs. But how well you play chess has been directly correlated to one's IQ, with Bobby Fischer reputedly having an IQ in the 160 range.

So they will have no problem getting into chess then? I don't understand your question. And like I said, chess has longer history of course it has more geniuses in it.

So why are you pretending none of that happened in DotA either except to far greater effect than, "WHOA DUDE BARON BUFF IS FIVE SECONDS LONGER NOW?"

Because normies don't understand that the winner of a Chess match is usually decided by turn 6 to 8 and literally every movement after that is just the loser trying to see if the winner is making any mistakes.

The entire game of Chess has been around for so long there is literally only 3 viable strategies and movement combinations that are viable and all three of them start off the exact same way.

it should also tell you something that Black wins almost 61% of the time due to the fact that they have the advantage of reacting to the first three moves of their opponent.
Chess is the epitome of "high skill floor but the ceiling is the floor." Once you learn how to play properly you quickly realize that the game has almost no strategic substance in it and it's mostly just trying to react to the opponent's next foreseeable move and usually after two or more mistakes you're pretty much done and over with the match, you're just playing it for the sake of tradition.

Don't believe me then watch Magnus Carlsen describe how he plays, he outright states that most of the time he knows when he is going to win or lose by turn 5.

>you found one thing that stayed the same
The entire team composition? That's a pretty big thing, user. In fact, it's a huge thing. And it's mandated to stay the same by the Chinese overlords Tencent. Enjoy.

>the greatest chess player in the world said that he's able to know in the first few turns whether he's going to win or not
>huh chess sounds pretty easy lole!

>Black wins almost 61%
ok then, surely you have some pretty good source to back up this bold claim?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess

and this is why westacuck culture needs to go

Most people who actuallly dedicate a week or more of learning how to play can figure out how to tell when they're going to win or lose by 7-8 turns and pros can figure it out by 6. As I said, the entire game only has like 3 viable ways to play it and it's more akin to Rock-Paper-Scissors than any actual strategic thought or depth.

Games are products, chess is not. Games are controlled by the dev company, chess by the chess organization. Games have bugs and client/host separation, chess does not.

RTT has surpassed RTS, thankfully.

It's difficult to escape the perception that it's all just one big advertisement to get more people to buy in

I am
and this isn't fundamentally different from any major culture I know of. Just the indicators of social status change.

It isn't more complicated that "if you are succesfull, people will adorate you"

>pic
The father is depressed because scrawny, spaghetti-for-arms, acne-ridden robotics nerds, while they may be very intelligent, don't get laid. Of course fathers are biologically programmed to feel disappointed when it starts to become clear there's a high chance his offspring might not further spread the genes of the bloodline. Meanwhile, kids who enjoy playing football (or other team sports) learn how to socialize, they learn the importance of teamplay, and their testosterone is boosted if they win a match, thus building confidence. It's also well-known that athletes in high school/college get laid like mad.

Sure, Dota changes too. Maybe more, maybe not. I'm not sure because I stopped playing Dota around 2014
I'm just saying I cringe when people post their "anti-fun" or "they nerfed DFG because too many buttons!" images/arguments from a decade ago
And specifically, I'm pretty sure LoL's snowballing problem was fixed years and years ago

But that's what I said, the only skill in MOBA is to not fall asleep.

In my native language (Dutch) we sometimes call chess a "denksport" which translates to "thinking sport".

NPCs make me ill

Must be why its more entertaining to watch.

Having a socially awkward high IQ introverted kid for offspring doesn't mean shit when he'll end up killing himself because he can't get a girl to like him.

Chess has a universal appeal, whereas games individually are niche despite being hugely popular all together. Games are drastic different from one another so you have to compare each of them with chess in turn.

Have you even been ranked in any moba?
I understand why you think mobas are shallow. Learning where the depth is is very hard, because it's basically how you get better at the game. Thinking of or realizing all the thousands of little places to eke out an advantage or shut out your opponent

This is still a game where you would lose to silver players, but those players would lose 90% of the time to plat players, who lose 90% of the time to diamond, who lose 90% of the time to Masters, who get dicked on by Challengers, who get DESTROYED by the top 20 of Challengers

You just can't ignore the stats, and how some players are so completely dominant. How can there be players who can make their teams win 45+ games in a row to get to the higher ranks if the game has no depth?

Chess has just been around for so long and in culture is establish as that game that the smart people play. Though people jerking off here that it is so intelligent kind of miss the point, normies don't actually give a shit about chess they just buy into the meme of it all. I mean the idea of a chess club is still seen as a nerdy waste of time, no one is actually more impressed if you play chess rather than video games.

Meanwhile video games are still seen as kids toys, and they largely are with esports marketing generally giving off the same lowbrow vibe. Every year people hop on a new bandwagon as the big esports game, 99% of which never last more than a month. Doesn't have the same cultural impact, especially when chess has a more timeless look compared to video game characters. It also helps that chess formed into the game we know so long ago, while the esports games getting patched all the time makes them appear less refined.

I don't think the right game has really come along to change this around. It would have to be something that most would feel okay watching, safe yet appealing designs and generally being easy to follow. I don't think any esport game right now does that very well, all too much going on in big maps usually with fantasy, sci-fi or military looks.

So why haven't you killed yourself, incel?

because chess is endlessly better designed than esport games
chess hasn't had a balance update in 500 years, while (insert your favorite esport game) needs a daily patch to fix balance issues and gameplay

Lack of tradition. The cheap culture that's grown up around it. Although you could argue that it is taken seriously by a lot of people, just a different demographic.

>he hasn't been playing since alpha

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Stop projecting.

i can also tell in SC2 pretty early into the game why i lost, what's your fucking point? you still have to memorize tactics, how to counter whatever pushed you into making mistakes, you have to learn how not to make those mistakes in different scenarios, etc
just because you type walls of text doesn't mean you aren't a total fucking retard

How hard is it for a father to take up exercise with his son? Maybe he could form a soccer club or some shit with everyone from the Lego tournament. Instead he shames himself by whining like a woman on social media.

Arnold got into politics with his acting fame. He stayed in because of his capability and speaking skills.

>one of the main ways to portray a character as a genius is to make him a great chess player
I wonder how scenes like that would be interpreted by people who actually know how to play the game. Like, could his opponent have made a better move in that situation?

Okay but you have to admit he still has the most aesthetic pectoral and biceps muscles in history.

There's a famous chess scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey where HAL makes an illegal move or something like that, which some see as a mistake by the writers/crew, or subtle foreshadowing on HAL's condition.

In the future it will be two people having a 16 star race in Mario 64

The word "gamer" is a complete joke because those who identify with the word are complete manchildren online. Maybe grow up a bit before you start bitching about people treating you with the disrespect you deserve.

Shut up, NPC

>Thanos and Grandmaster, two of the smartest people in the universe, face off against each other in a VR shooter
This should never be seen as anything besides the dumbest contest ever.

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It doesn't matter, don't try to explain, they haven't played DotA so they're gonna think what you're saying is some strict closed rule that's followed in every match until a patch changes like in their game.
Really don't bother talking with leaguebabs, they're mostly underage so we are unable to understand their point of view, they grew up with microtransactions and the p2w gated model of game, you can't blame them for being retarded.
t. 3000+ hours at both games.

More people take esports seriously than chess. Chess is respected in the way that going to the library is respected. The average person probably associates it as a quality of a better person, but would laugh at you if you suggested trying it. They both have a niche crowd that follows them seriously, but gaming reaches a much wider audience. I also feel the need to put a disclaimer that I think esports are a fucking joke so you don't think I'm trashing chess. The appeal of following a sport is to see people doing things you can't. The average level of play in esports is completely attainable by the average gamer.

Keep coping, incel.

based

>Also, there have been double jungle periods, double mid periods (funneling), triple bot periods, and triple top periods in League's lifetime
>but I guess just ignore that
One game is not a period, it's just one game, retard.

Based incels living rent free in your head cucked normie

I already know this, which is why i've given up on chasing pussy altogether, i can direct my energy on actually contributing to the world instead.
>Maybe grow up a bit before you start bitching about people treating you with the disrespect you deserve.
Believe it or not i don't actually identify with being an unironic gamer, i do play games alot but being a "gamer" isn't my sole personality trait. It's just that i don't think that people who unironically identify themselves as "gamers" don't deserve all the disrespect they are getting, yes they can be obnoxious and pretentious as fuck but it doesn't justify you being a total asshole towards them.
Not everyone you disagree with is an incel.

People also forget that cheese can literally be played with rocks if need be.

poz is part of it. chess players aren't reprimanded for having opinions outside of the game. chess players aren't threatened with bans for making ok hand signals. the other part of it is that chess is static, it's the same as it's been for hundreds of years. in the case of Overwatch, it wasn't a casual game that was retroactively turned into this SUPER SERIOUS e-sport to try to chase trends. chess doesn't endure huge game changes every few months that totally rework how the game plays, or how certain characters/pieces function. you don't need to follow it obsessively to know that a pawn can only move forward, bishops move diagonally, etc.

Chess is boring as fuck. Not only does it have first player bias but it also has "runaway leader" syndrome.

In fact, most abstract strategy board games with perfect information have a bias in whomever moves first or second, along with runaway leader.

A good solid abstract strategy board game needs at least a little bit of chance in it as well as mechanisms for a fast and definitive resolution.

>Why do people like this when they should like what I like!!
This entire thread. I'd like to point out that people claiming something as boring or solved probably were never go great at anything in their lives, so they move from new thing to new thing never actually being truly fulfilled.

ft10 me in mouse trap scrub

This is the dumbest post in the thread.

Zero percent change you could beat someone rated 1000 Elo.

>I wonder how scenes like that would be interpreted by people who actually know how to play the game. Like, could his opponent have made a better move in that situation?

They actually used a real game in From Russia with Love. It's Boris Spassky vs David Bronstein from the 1960 USSR Chess Championship.

Since the James Bond book was pretty extensively researched by Ian Fleming and he used a real-life Grandmaster chess game for Kronsteen to play, the movie producers also wanted to use a real game. They used Spassky's game because he used an incredibly aggressive and rare/dubious opening known as the King's Gambit, and ended up completely smashing Bronstein in less than 25 moves.

youtube.com/watch?v=ptE98eUhbKQ

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Which sport?

>The average level of play in esports is completely attainable by the average gamer.

Isn't that a problem?

Objective truth

Except for the Go part. That game is for manchildren who wear cargo shorts.

They are.
They have more viewers.

Total War is the most casual trash there is
basically a movie game for people who want to look at their units smash into eachother

It will, once more boomers die off.

:)

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Most games are really, really boring to watch.
Chess is also pretty intuitive for anyone to pick up and play, or just observe a high level game.
I enjoy watching high level AoE 2, for example, but to outsiders it's completely impenetrable and probably a turn-off.

>Chess players in media
>English accent, talks like he's a duke or something, always in a suit, possibly asian, always male
>Esport players in media
>talk really fast in barely coherent 1337 speak, way too casual for everything, throws out acronyms every other word, sometimes asian, sometimes female

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Like chess it’s taken seriously by the people that enjoy it. Chess just has a great reputation and I’d say simple board games are great for competition because the rules are simple but the techniques and game sense are hard. Video games are also debilitatingly decentralized as sports since every new game that people are willing to play competitively just adds to the pool and nobody will have the time to focus on more than one or a few games they like if they’re into gaming competitions at all. The final reason I know of is just that a lot of esports pros don’t act very maturely/gracefully and it’s a reflection of the entire playerbase when that’s a common theme.

>it should also tell you something that Black wins almost 61% of the time

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Where do I find chess shitposts?

Well, go players need to carry their pellets somehow in a comfortable manner.

more

Esports is taken seriously. This whole shitty gamer culture thing is a mult-billion $ industry.

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Is Bobby Fisher the original 'Damaged' "We live in a society" gamer?

>Unironically posting Bobby Fischer
>Not knowing he's a massive racist (You probably did)

Fuck off, /pol/

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Culturally, it's laughable no matter how much money you throw at it.

It's all I have.

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I dunno, I've fully submitted to carnal pleasures and I'm just a NEET who stays inside and jerks off all day. He's onto something, if you consider yourself to have also submitted fully to carnal pleasures then you're probably either wrong or find pleasures in what most people would describe as work, which is pure genetic/upbringing based luck.

NPC tier

>*Witcher Senses Activate*
>*sniff*
>Mhmm.. Smells like festering wounds... and something else. Chlorine?
>Looks like this one has an Adam's Apple. Strange.
>....Shaving marks all over the face.
>Hmmm.. a Tranny™, gotta be.

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>he's crying
>he's crying
>my dear senpai's crying
>read this in pic related's voice because of the dumb song that doesn't leave my head
help me

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You first, r*ddit.

let's d-ddddd-d-d-d-d-d-ddddd-d--d-d-d--d--d--d-d-d-d-d-dddddd-d-d-d-d-dddd-d-d-d-duel

*40

>game about patterns
>intelligence
Based retard

>>Character is a genius among geniuses
>Great at go
No one thinks this outside of Nippan

lichess.org/eDOFUmEN

>game about patterns

Have you never played chess before?

FUCK

>Requires neither high intelligence nor high physicallity
Wow so hard to understand why most people don't give a shit about e-spawts. No one cares about a bunch of pasty, out of shape chinks tapping at a keyboard to repetitively bust out some build order or fluff their APM giving some unit the same order 200 times while cycling through control groups.

Video games by their nature are much more rigid and repetitive than actual sports, and the dynamics of what can constitute 'skill' are also much lower and generally less entertaining. There's no 'personality' involved and you don't give a shit about any of the actual players, if you can even be assed to remember the names of some faceless asians. Especially when you can never relate to them because most of the games involved don't even function particularly well unless you have a crew of friends to play with consistently that share a skill level and lots of free time.

There's just no immersion, and the image is shit.

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I agree.
The term "sport" really needs to be restricted to physical stuff. Chess isn't really a sport, either, it's a game.
It's no less respectable for that, though.
A proper division would be between sport games, table games, and video games.

>no clip the chess board
Lmao deal wit it

broodwar is gaining popularity

Is this a fucking joke? Are you fucking ill OP? You should die.

Complete and utter unprofessionalism on all sides. They just drag some clueless british cunt spouting twitter memes to act as announcer while the players are disheveled slobs or flighty drama queens. Only thing that ever came close to legitimate was brood war.

Games should be a sport, because they (can) require proper strategic and not rote autism memorization like chess, and also incorporate the physical side of competition in reactions, kinetic vision, and so on, while not being as massively gated by genetic rolls as professional sports. But developers also do not try to make games for that purpose, they make slot machines and flashy spectacles for normalfags because that brings in the money.

>brood war

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i'm going to take a shot in the dark and say you're a tumblrite womyn.
go dilate tranny.

Because of the demographics it hits. Chess is for older, smart, successful people (or even younger, smart and successful kid with A+ in everything), games are for snowflake teenagers that usually drop school to play videogames 24/7. The difference is pretty damn clear.

Maybe if we had esport fags on the level of Fischer, they would