Hollow Knight is garbage

>90% of them are viable if you know how to use them right. Nice cherrypicking by the way.
They're viable in the sense that most of them barely make any difference, so it ultimately isn't a big deal what you choose. Even the ones that do make a difference, mostly boil down to boring stat boosts like 'slightly increase the amount of soul gained per hit' or 'slightly reduce cost of spells'. Very few of the charms change up your playstyle in a meaningful way.

If they couldn't design a compelling customization system, they shouldn't have bothered.

>Wrong. The majority of health/soul upgrades and upgrades in general are found in the world.
It's literally a running joke that the shopkeeper in Dirtmouth keeps finding new health/soul upgrades to sell to you. So maybe not the absolute majority, but certainly a large amount of them. This also applies to stuff like notches, most of which are bought from Salubra.

>Losing health (of which you don't have plenty) is not "rewarding" the player.
Losing health isn't that big a big deal when healing is essentially free and unlimited. Being teeleported to safety is just bad design. Why not let the player themselves jump out of the spiked pit or whatever they fell into?

>>charms
>90% of them are viable if you know how to use them right. Nice cherrypicking by the way.
I am more pissed that charms are the only way you can customize (barely) your playstyle. Except for a couple of special attacks you do the same shit with the same weapon all the fucking game.

>Losing health isn't that big a big deal when healing is essentially free and unlimited.
It's not free kek. Do I really need to explain to you how the healing system is supposed to work? Falling into a pit is much worse than getting hit by an enemy because the pit doesn't give you healing energy.
>Being teeleported to safety is just bad design. Why not let the player themselves jump out of the spiked pit or whatever they fell into?
Because it would basically nullify the punishment? If you keep jumping into the acid water in Fungal Wastes without looking what's below you you'll surely die. That's how the game teaches you to use the free camera. If a bad player were able to just jump out of the water and get down to the next one no lesson would be learned.
>They're viable in the sense that most of them barely make any difference, so it ultimately isn't a big deal what you choose. Even the ones that do make a difference, mostly boil down to boring stat boosts like 'slightly increase the amount of soul gained per hit' or 'slightly reduce cost of spells'. Very few of the charms change up your playstyle in a meaningful way.
That may be true but again, no one on Yea Forums claims otherwise. You could've done your own research on this but you blindly trusted people who like the game for what it is. The only one to blame for this is you.

it's a 6/10 mediocre action game that ticks all the boxes for being as generic as possible.
i will respect your opinion on that it is even, worse though.

I didn't care for it myself but I hope that Silksong is good so all the HK bros can be happy

Wholesome comment

>music is boring.

I don't care about the game being bad debate but the music was absolutely stellar t. studying music theory in a university

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I actually really like that all the upgrades are passive abilities,
i hate the whole thing, where you have to go into a menu and equip a specific ability to progress, even Metroid partially does it, but atleast there switching is quick and unlocked doors stay open for the most part.

hollow knight is maybe the best game ever made

SEETHING pedestrian

Charms are ridiculously powerful, and I'm amazed that the game actually manages to be balanced and completely fair and playable no matter which build you use. Compare OP sutff like Unbreakable Strength, Shaman Stone, or Shape of Unn to say, Splatoon's gear perks which barely do anything.

I really liked hollow knight

Attached: 3214567.jpg (436x413, 14K)

Don't worry, this is mostly exaggerating contrarians, it's a legitimately great game.
"Best of all time" is also very arguable of course, but it is solid nonetheless.

Are you memeing me right now OP? Charms were so broken that the devs had to nerf a few of them.

Anyone else received their collector's edition?
The pendant feels like cheap plastic, but the book looks fucking gorgeous.

I mean, it's a good game. Remember to take everything you read on Yea Forums with a grain of salt and form your own opinions

What book? Do you mean the manual or?

I thought city of tears, kingdoms edge and the palace had nice melodies

I meant this book:
fangamer.com/collections/hollow-knight/products/hollow-knight-wanderers-journal-book

Arguing that the soundtrack is generic is pure bait. There's several notable melodies and musical motifs.

I was considering ordering that together with a CE, but I'm on the fence.
Same with getting a CE since I already own the game on steam

They all have reddit spacing, too.

It took me two boss fights but the game finally clicked. It's an absolute masterpiece, possibly perfect even. Stellar art design and soundtrack, razor-sharp game design and mechanics. Deserves every bit of praise it gets.

>Charms were so broken that the devs had to nerf a few of them

which ones?

>It took me two boss fights but the game finally clicked. It's an absolute masterpiece, possibly perfect even.
If it were perfect, the early-game would be better. Don't get me wrong, I think this game is excellent, but the early-game is a slog and I completely get why so many people drop it before even reaching Mantis Lords.

It it worth 30 bucks?

Flukenest, Quick Slash and Joni's Blessing.

If you're a big fan, then I'd say it is.

I can't beat the fucking bee knight
What's wrong with me?

Do you have the shade dash? Makes him a lot easier.

i like it. its pretty top tier for a cheap indy game. the only problem i have is how buggy it is on pc, or at least in xbox game pass. it constantly crashes and sometimes wont even start randomly because "unityplayer.dll is missing" then it goes away when i restart. makes no sense.

Metroidvanias are mostly shit and just an outdated as fuck genre if you ask me.

Nope. Where do I get that?

>metroidvania
>pacing
OK retard

Sundered > Hollow Knight

Out of all the games you could choose from you pick that garbage?

Well, OP made a HK thread so here we are.

HK is what new studios should aim to do. Tried and tested formula for a game but everything works brilliantly and it feels great. So many games try pulling off a brand new mechanic or concept and fall completely on their face because its inexperienced devs wading into unknown waters. Team Cherry did a great job, especially considering only 4 people made it. I'll happily take polished and unoriginal over the inverse

Add to that the fact you can only swap charms at the bench and not as the situation calls for it, which is fucking bullshit and further removes their utility.
Plus the combat system is garbage. Literally just avoid enemy attacks, no dash, no block, no parry, and the enemies are either a joke or spam random bullshit projectiles which can make the fight either slightly difficult or an impossible shitfest of forced damage.
The only thing it has going for it is the cute aesthetic and riding on Dark Souls's coattails.

>no dash
Wat

Attached: 1550972163444.jpg (640x409, 93K)

>no dash, no parry
You just proved it that you only played the game for a few hours you fucking zoomer.

This desu. People are too obsessed with innovation.

They're "balanced" because they're utterly boring and banal. It's funny that you should mention Splatoon despite it being a completely different genre and kind of game. The reason why Splatoon's perks are so boring is because it's a multiplayer game and they specifically didn't want the gear abilities to be too much of a factor. Hollow Knight's charms are actually very comparable. Unbreakable Strength and Shaman Stone are literally just attack up modifiers, they do nothing but increase your numbers so things die slightly faster. You can't get more dull than this and, like you said, these are the OP optimal charms everyone uses. And since they cost so many slots, it's at the expense of potentially more interesting charms. Luckily those don't exist.

>no dash, no block, no parry
Uhhhh

being unable to swap charms anywhere is a good thing. you have to plan ahead, make decisions about your loadout and cuts down on menu time.

>No dash
>No block
>No parry
These are all literally wrong, you also forgot to mention the magic and special attacks

I bet you love Momodora

To be fair, I've literally never parried an enemy attack on purpose.

There is no excuse for a game being boring for longer than the entire play time of most other games in the genre.

The optional dash doesn't count, because you won't keep it on unless you really need it. And it has a tiny range and a long cooldown. It's not a real dodge, it's a situational solution to specific attacks that require it. The parry doesn't actually parry unless there's some endgame item that makes it parry.

Magic is just an upgrade on your melee, since you need to hit enemies to build up magic meter, it doesn't replace the melee. I didn't have the nerves to progress to the endgame when you get the (I suspect) useless block charm.

>I couldn't even beat the game and I'm so insecure about it that I had to cry on Yea Forums to get confirmation from other retards that share my shit taste
Fixed bb

Obviously. It's been a meme in Yea Forums HK threads for years.

>Optional dash
>Won't keep it on unless you need it
>Long cooldown
user I don't understand, am I missing something here. Are you talking about the shade cloak cooldown and keeping the dashmaster charm on?

Sauce? Who is this specimen?

>Dark Souls
Dark Souls is the worst fucking video game in the history of video games. The most overrated piece of pure trash to ever grace a game console or PC. It has singlehandedly created a legion of boring drones who insist that every single game copy its gameplay and mechanics. I fucking hate Dark Souls. Bloodborne is equally pure shit and Demon’s Souls was never a good video game to begin with and has an atrocious framerate

We need to start killing all of you souls posters. It needs to stop, it needs to end. I’m tired of hearing about Dark Souls. This has nothing to do with getting gud, every video game does not need to be souls. I’m tired of this shit, you need to be gassed to death. You’re probably circumcised too

POST HORNY

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I dunno what to tell you man, I expected Dark Souls with bugs and instead got Kaizo Mario World.

HK is nowhere near that difficult. Stop being bad at video games.

Same

I know there's a parry when you hit the enemy's sword, but what is the block?

Not most of the time, no, but when the devs get their difficultyboner on they just spam random bullshit projectiles all over and all you can do is dance around hoping you don't end up in a locked situation with forced damage. In a competently designed game it would be a test of skill where you're given tools to interact with the enemy's attacks, but here it's just random. Oh you dodged left instead of right? Have a random ball right at your corner which you can't escape because the other two huge projectiles chose to box you in, hope you like dying, fag. Oh you dodged right this time? No, see, this time the boss decided to jump right and land on your head.
Oh and contact damage is absolutely bad game design.

If you take out all the combat from Hollow Knight and just make it a walking simulator it would be a better game.

What are you talking about? Most bosses aren't projectile-heavy at all. This seems like it's literally only talking about Absolute Radiance, which everyone agrees is shitty design.

>Why not let the player themselves jump out of the spiked pit or whatever they fell into?

because then players could just "tank" the spikes and skip the platforming section holy shit never design a game i beg you

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>We need to start killing all of you souls posters. It needs to stop, it needs to end. I’m tired of hearing about Dark Souls. This has nothing to do with getting gud, every video game does not need to be souls.
The developers of Hollow Knight clearly disagree with you, considering they ripped off the entire plot of Dark Souls even right down to same of the same terminology, many game mechanics, tone, presentation, etc.

its too hard.

i gave up. its pretty entertaining though. hopefully the 2nd one is as difficult

>because then players could just "tank" the spikes and skip the platforming section holy shit never design a game i beg you
But the game already does this for you, since it just teleports you to safety.

If the player had to jump out of danger themselves, they might take even more damage in the process, e.g. accidentally jumping on spikes while trying to jump to safety.

No I mean shit like Gallen and the third Hornet fight.

I played for about 2-3 hours (pirate obv) and I just didn't feel it. I miss customization of weapons and gears, level ups etc
Also the sad Souls-like, bug-theme didn't help either
But is a nice game.

>Hollow Knight is overrated, reddit shi-

Attached: Radiance 2.webm (640x360, 2.63M)

Galien only has 2 projectiles and they both move in predictable patterns and they have a grace period while spawning. Hornet only has 2 fights, and she does not use projectiles in any of them, unless you count the spike balls hanging on the threads, which you can just deflect with your sword.

git gud user

>The parry doesn't actually parry unless there's some endgame item that makes it parry.

>But the game already does this for you, since it just teleports you to safety.

you keep saying this but it just does not happen
i have 70 hours and i'm doing the speedrun achievement and this has never happened.

i mean i think it can happen because how the game calculates where you should teleport but you are talking about a glitch i've never seen in 70 hours as a game mechanic

HAHAHA I was right, you made this thread because you're bad and upset you probably couldn't even make it to the city of tears. Ironic because it sounds like the perfect place for you.

Not OP but I sunk 10 hours into the game and was bored the entire time.

I didn't make the thread

How are you not getting this? Let me spell it out for you

Hollow Knight currently does this:
>you fall of a platform into spikes/toxic water/etc
>you take 1 point of damage and are teleported back to the platform you fell of from
>sometimes, you will be teleported ahead to the place you were trying to reach (this happens quite often for me and I'm playing the latest version).

Hollow Knight SHOULD do this:

>you fall of a platform into spikes/toxic water/etc
>you take 1 point of damage and the game continues as if you took damage from an enemy, i.e. you have a brief invulnerability period, but if it passes, you will take 1 point of damage again if you're still in the spikes/toxic water

This method is superior because not only does it not interrupt gameplay, but it also places the rsponsibility with the player instead of teleporting them to safety,

>believing Yea Forums shilling obscure indie game
user, this turns out bad 99.99% of the time

Hollow Knight does it like that because it's a Metroidvania and wants to force you to take the "correct" route. Otherwise you might be able to pass some areas out of order.

What you're proposing would allow players to rush the platforming sections with the invulnerability on hit instead of being forced to learn the jumps.

Is there any reason to do a third playthrough? Did a 2nd one to upload bosses to my youtube channel, now want to play again but there's no reason to do so.

>Hollow Knight does it like that because it's a Metroidvania
Other Metroidvanias don't do it like HK does.

Is this the Monster Hunter thread mentality? Make an inflammatory post so the thread stays alive? I don't feel like Hollow Knight needs that.

I count the spikes as projectiles and they spawn at random places which makes the fight total garbage. Gallen's homing projectile places you at the mercy of his randomly moving other projectile and himself (I'm counting him as a third projectile), meaning you can get boxed in and take forced damage.

Look at this:
THIS is a good fight. It has actual patterns and is built around your movement abilities, you can learn it and git gud at it. Gallen and Hornet (and soulwhatever the dream guy and so on) are just artificial difficulty with bullshit forced damage.

>this happens quite often for me

lying on the internet

>you take 1 point of damage and the game continues as if you took damage from an enemy, i.e. you have a brief invulnerability period, but if it passes, you will take 1 point of damage again if you're still in the spikes/toxic water

yes we understand that you haven't finished the game.
no that method is shit it would let you bypass a shitload of platforming challenges.
you would know if you actually played the whole game before getting into arguments on a basket weaving forum

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Hollow Knight needs to be deleted and remade as an actual good game.

Galien is 100% consistent. He does not have "randomly moving" projectiles. He has one projectile that traces you, and one that just bounces off of the walls. You can predict both of them entirely. If you get in a situation where you get "forced damage", then it's because you didn't anticipate it properly.

please respond to my fucking post incels

>no that method is shit it would let you bypass a shitload of platforming challenges.
You're missing the fact that he wants to bypass those challenges and sequence break.

>no knockback
>useless
holy shit opinion discarded

The homing one forces you into a movement pattern and the bouncing one has a slight randomization to its angle making it random and Gallen himself is a third randomly moving projectile.

At the time you're intended to fight him you just have three hearts. Like, look at this: youtube.com/watch?v=bpenuhpOSw4
This guy went in overleveled and just took more damage to the face than I had health going into the fight in the first place.

Reminds me of what Iga said about Bloodstained - every boss must be beatable with your basic dagger and one point of health. Team Cherry would do well to learn this lesson for HK2.

>why cant i just run through the white palace and tank it
>why do i have to get tear for acid if i can just tank it

Are you high? That fight looks terrible.

That's because the guy is playing like a moron. You shouldn't be jumping during that fight, you can hit him by swinging up, if you want to do your minimalist no gimmicks run. The abyss shriek spell also destroys him.

What's terrible about it?

>sometimes, you will be teleported ahead to the place you were trying to reach (this happens quite often for me and I'm playing the latest version).
Never happened to me, 280 hours in. Why do you lie about something so obvious?
>This method is superior because not only does it not interrupt gameplay, but it also places the rsponsibility with the player instead of teleporting them to safety
Kek if you actually believe this I know you've never played a sonic game in your life you retard zoomer

hornet is ezmode boss. Literally the easiest one in game. Here's me beating hornet sentinel (hardest version of the boss) with my eyes closed
youtube.com/watch?v=LSnAIuWMr-M

> abyss shriek
You don't have that when you meet him.

Go on, go defeat Gallen with the basic nail, no double jump, no dash, without taking damage. I'll wait.

That's a lot easier than her second fight given how much larger the arena is.

You literally can not get to him without the dash, so I will disregard that one. Other than that, that's entirely doable. Just walk back and forth on the ground, dash if a projectile is gonna corner you, and swing up. All abyss shriek does is speed things up. I'm not about to say Galien is an example of amazing boss design, but he was like the second boss I beat on Radiant mode because he is so predictable.

It can happen, but yes it's a bug..

I've only ever seen or had it happen at one specific part of the white palace where there's a vertical corridor with spikes at the top right next to the ledge.

Ive radianted Galien with no problems, you just fucking suck
All those projectiles stay in view at all times, the big one obviously traces you, the small ones are too fucking slow and galien can be knocked away from you. You also have upwards AOE to nuke him with, and in the game where you find him, there's a lifeblood cocoon right above him

wait wrong link. heres hornet sentinel ascended. And no this is harder than the 2nd hornet fight. I'm fighting in the godmaster dlc area with the highest level of this boss.
youtube.com/watch?v=0cjTcNSMOcA&t=3s

oh i see so he's just pretenting to want more "player responsability" when he actually just want to skip challenges

have you done Steel Soul?

no but its quite unfair.

>more than three or so charms at a time
I had like five or six equipped for the final boss

>Needing abyss shriek
>Needing an upgraded nail
>Needing double jump
>Needing shadow dash
Zoom zoom, gaming journalist

most games just kill you if you hit the spikes, not let you skip the spikes

Hollow Knight is okay, but I prefer real Igavanias, they don't seem to take themselves as seriously

I don't see what you're on about, that is literally the exact same fight. And you took a ton of damage you didn't need to, it was really sloppy play.

I don't? I defeated him with three hearts and no charms, because that's all I had. Now go do it, I'm waiting.

Dude it was my first time with ascended version of this boss. I wasn't even trying to avoid damage just trying to end it fast. That's why I said I was doing it with my eyes closed.

>three hearts and no charms, because that's all I had
>start the game with 5 hearts
>he's in what is at BEST the fourth area of the game, likely later, literally impossible to get to him without getting at least Shaman Stone
are you okay?

well there's your reason to do a third playthrough. Git gud for real and for true.

look up "radiant galien nail only" on youtube
>in b4 not basic nail
dream warrior HP scales to your nail

>fight design incentivizes pogo spamming instead of timing attacks
>nothing in it is actually hard to dodge whatsoever and that's before iframe spells

*is better in every way*

Attached: Bloodstained.jpg (1920x1080, 287K)

Considering you choked at Galien and hornet, I dont think you're in any position to criticize radiance

You have the wrong guy.

Most hate niggers either never played the game or killed hollow knight with max upgrades and called it a day.

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>first time
>literally third time (2nd horned, 1st sentinel, 2nd sentinel) you fight the exact same boss
And yeah I see you're not trying to avoid damage. That's another problem with Hollow Knight, you get so many health upgrades you can start playing really sloppy later on. There really shouldn't be any.

>shaman stone
>useful
Also, I'm sure I didn't have magic when I fought him. But I also got very lost and ended up in the city without going through the gate at one point.

>I'm sure I didn't have magic when I fought him
impossible. you need Vengeful Spirit to even get out of Crossroads

Oops, my bad

oh my fucking god you shithead. each version get progressively harder. And its ok to lose hp in godmaster because you return to full hp after the fight.

>It's all very cliched ambient melancholy stuff that lacks any memorable theme or melody.
you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. There are numerous themes and leitmotifs that go through intense development throughout the course of the game. Try harder faggot

It boggles the mind that Team Cherry thought that making content updates focus not on new, interesting areas, but on lacklustre boss fights would be a good idea.
Yes... Godhome is an area, technically, but it's laughable to consider it interesting to explore. Instead, imagine if Team Cherry made a small room where you could bring up a menu to choose what pantheon or boss you wanted to challenge and spent the rest of their efforts on additional areas? I mean really, all the hype for the final content pack was for...
>Half-baked boss rush modes
>"Ascended" and "Radiant" modes that don't even do anything notable
>Endless Zote battle (Compared to the rest of the filler that was added, this was best part)
Shit, they could have spent the time trying to improve the early game so that new players don't quit out of boredom? Or people replaying the game have something else to do instead of just turning their brain off?

Here's a video of someone beating Galien with zero damage and no charms equipped.
youtube.com/watch?v=oSM24IiDV-8
He does use dash, though.

Just tape a radiant mode fight and shut him up

I do not see how it gets harder.
>it's ok to lose HP
it's still shameful

>It's literally a running joke that the shopkeeper in Dirtmouth keeps finding new health/soul upgrades to sell to you.
he sells like two heart pieces and two soul pieces

>t. never embraced the void
And they made a boss rush because at the time, that's what HK fans wanted. And say what you will, being able to challenge my guy NKG without needing to play the whole game to 100% each time gets a thumbs up from me

Hornet is faster has more hp and does double damage.

Yeah I didn't have the dash when I fought him.

You are full of shit, dude. You can not get to Deepnest without the dash or Vengeful Spirit unless you maybe did some kind of speedrun tier damage boost. It's also impossible to have 3 HP at any point in the game.

>faster
Didn't seem faster. Plus it doesn't make the fight harder, she's super slow to begin with.

Dude you literally said hornet is a hard boss like 5 posts ago. Thats why I posted her.

No, I said it's badly designed. When the area is as big as the one you fight sentinel in, the difficulty is removed.

Is Kingsoul good? I'm not sure about losing it for Void Heart.

Only for overcharming. Would be nice for some Radiant fights honestly, sad you generally won't have it then.

Yeah I think it's total trash as well. Idk what the fuss is about.

Brilliantly stated, OP. Don't mind the paid shills trying to damage control, you are 100% correct.

Why is it so ugly? Game looks like a shitty late 90s flash game.

ok im gonna download hollow knight right now and shut this fool up

Because it's based on a flash game.

Points 1,2 and 6 are perfectly valid.
3 is subjective as hell, but I agree with you on this one.
4 and 5 are factually wrong.

While 6 might be valid, noone is claiming that Hollow Knight reinvented the genre.
Infact i think it's so good because it just sticks to the basics but does them really well.

This honestly. It stands on the shoulders of giants, and doesn't really add anything new to the table, but it's pretty solid in almost every aspect.

>charms are a poor customization system
I can agree with most of this, never ended up using most of them aside from for specific bosses in the Hall of Gods
> 'slightly increases movement speed' (useless, since you already have a dash that is faster) or 'lets you dash downward'
For a game with a lot of backtracking, the boosted speed is nice. Also, these two upgrades actually have a combo bonus that boosts your movement speed even further.
>music is boring.
I don't care about video game music myself so I can't really argue this point either way.
>if you fall of a ledge, you are teleported to safety, which completely undermines the whole challenge of platforming.
You lose health each time, giving you only a certain amount of tries unless you want to backtrack to hit some enemies for more health, which itself can be a risk. If you're half way through a platforming section, then you also have to do whatever you've already done in reverse, which could also lead to losing health.
>Often times, you'll even be teleported ahead to the place you were trying to reach, so you're actually rewarded for failure
I've done two 107+% playthroughs and don't recall that happening.
>most health/soul upgrades, charms and key items that let you bypass obstacles are bought from stores rather than found, making exploration feel unrewarding
For the health/soul upgrades, he sells 4/16 health upgrades, and 2/6 soul upgrades. As for key items, he only sells the lantern, one basic key (which is likely intended for use in the town itself) and the Elegant Key, which still requires exploration to find where to use it. In contrast, the dash, dive, main spell, wall climb, double jump, tear, and the shadow dash all require exploration.
For charms, plenty several are found around the world as a reward for exploration, but I also dislike the slots being bought.
>upgrades are just the bogstandard 'dash/super dash/walljump/can survive water' Metroidvania stuff.
Why fix what's not broken?

You just have to git gud/git asian.
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=LqrSMqWC5uU

>even parried the parry
mad lad

bump

based chink

>got the dreamnail
>got to Galien in Deepnest
>I didn't have the dash
>just have three hearts
You start out with 5 hearts in the beginning of the game and you're telling me that you somehow went to the Resting Grounds, got the Dreamnail and then went to Deepnest and fought Galien without ever getting the dash?
You're so full of shit

>use insane sequence breaking techniques to get halfway though the game without an essential upgrade just so you can deliberately cripple yourself for an optional boss fight
I guess that's the spirit of Metroid.

k here's hornet sentinel radiant. Hardest version of the boss where you die in 1 hit. Recorded right now, beat in 2nd try. Now call my play sloppy faggot.
youtube.com/watch?v=5a7059GWliU&feature=youtu.be

I've played tons of metroidvanias through the years and my top 3 are:
- Hollow Knight
- Aria of Sorrow
- Strider (reboot)

>every boss must be beatable with your basic dagger and one point of health
This is true for HK. Every boss can be beaten without taking ANY damage at all, and the nail upgrades merely decide how long the fight lasts.

I think your wrong but I appreciate that you put the effort into to explain why instead of just saying "its shit" like so many fucking retards on here who expect their casual dismissal to carry any weight

based

>can beat everything easily now, 112%
>will never be able to finish pantheon of hallownest cause the final boas gauntlet is insanely brutal

life is suffering

>every boss must be beatable with your basic dagger and one point of health
Godmaster proves they follow that design with Radiant difficulty where every boss kills you in one hit.

You can easily learn NKG and PV to the point where you never die to them. AR is a fucking RNG fest but if you just attempt it a few times you will luck out and win eventually.

Poor baby.

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it takes too fucking long for a AR attempt, only for it to often end quickly

Hornet sounds so cute.

Silksong and HK will be so much fun to replay back to back, I'm beyond excited for Silksong

Nice try reddit. But for real, the last Pantheon ain't too bad. Once I got good at all bosses it only took me a few tries to beat it.

Attached: Screenshot_20190728-111057_Brave.jpg (1440x2960, 1.05M)

There ya go. Absolute unit you are user, well done

They should just give a free copy to whoever beats path of hallownest, probably the hardest challenge I've seen in a videogame

What is harder than that?

free copy of Silksong*

What charms are you using?

PoH with all bindings
PoH hitless. There's video of some faggot doing it with a delicate flower somewhere
When you have self imposed challenges and a fanbase that loves pain to the point the most popular mods make bosses harder and stronger with tighter attacks, there's no end to it

Uninstalled the game a while ago at 112% with only the pantheon of hallownest left, don't remember.

I'm feeling the urge to replay though

You can practice her in the hall of gods, same as everyone else. Your attempts shouldn't "end quickly" if you can semi-reliably beat her in practice mode.

Knew I should have cropped it so it wasn't as obvious I just ripped it from some reddit autismo.

>'removes the slight knockback you get from attacking'
True, that charm is pretty useless.
> 'slightly increases movement speed'
Not useless at all. Sprintmaster is really useful for bosses where you need the extra speed to dodge some of its moves without wasting a dash that puts your invincibility frames from Shadow Dash on cooldown
>And the notch requirements are far too restrictive and prevent you from using more than three or so charms at a time
You didn't actually play the game completely, I can tell. You can equip a bunch of them by lategame.

>the death mechanic is an inferior version of what Dark Souls does
And who said the death mechanic was trying to be Dark Souls at all? Seems like you never actually bothered to look at the healing and death mechanics from HK as they stand on their own and think the game was necessarily trying to emulate Dark Souls. It wasn't. You yourself provide evidence for it in that HK never was meant to be the game of attrition that DS was. It is an entirely different thing in concept.

>music is boring
Hot opinions.

>if you fall of a ledge, you are teleported to safety
Did you play White Palace or Path of Pain at all? The whole point of being teleported back to a previous point is that you are expected to get the platforming right and can't just abuse what most other games do, which is just make you take damage and give you some invincibility frames so you push through regardless of whether you beat the platforming challenge. I also don't remember many points where you are teleported forward, and if you ever are, they are clearly not intended to happen that way since most platforming areas will drive you back to the last solid platform you were on.

>most health/soul upgrades, charms and key items that let you bypass obstacles are bought from stores rather than found
You are blatantly lying at this point. Nearly all the things you get to bypass obstacles are always obtained from bosses aside from the Lantern.

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You know a game is good when Yea Forums tries so hard to make it look bad.

>the most popular mods make bosses harder and stronger with tighter attacks
The modding API is so fucking cancer you can't really do much beyond just cranking up the numbers. I'm sure a mod that adds a new location would be much more popular than crazy bosses, it's just impossible to make.

Beating all bosses in Radiant difficulty is more difficult I believe. But beating the last Pantheon with all bindings at once would be the ultimate challenge. You get a small reward if you get all bindings, but you don't need to get them all at once.

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Is there really nothing for beating pantheons all at once? I just started doing godseeker content. Is it only for personal challenge?

what reward?

It teleports you BACKWARDS to safety. It almost never teleports you past the section you failed to navigate properly, forcing you to try again instead of just tanking the hits.

Main thing I hate about the charm/notch system is that seeing your location on the map costs one notch. You should NEVER have to pay in-game resources just to make the UI more useful. This is like that perk in Fallout 1 that gives friendly targets a different colored outline from the enemies, just fucking have that always on instead of bullying the player.

are you autistic?

I'm way more livid about the Gathering Swarm. The compass gives you a choice between wasting a notch or having to use your brain to navigate (which is fun). Swarm gives you a choice between wasting a notch or having to tediously jump around collecting geo after every single fights (which is NOT fun).

I'm sorry if you are too mentally disabled to recognize area you are in without a big fucking knight head over it. nu/v/ at its finest

The point is to make you get an advantage once you know the map
It's intended more as "an extra notch if you know the map well" rather than "one less notch if you suck at orientation", if that makes sense

>lacklustre
Shit taste, guy. The fights they added were awesome and the existing fights they changed were more than interesting enough to make me want to play through Godmaster.

If anything it solidified my love of the game's combat. Proof that simplicity can be engaging.

Nope. There is a small reward for getting every binding, but it is not necessary to activate them all at once when you challenge a Pantheon to get it. If you happen to get them all at once, these things become bright white and that's it, they also show bright white in the inventory screen
After you get all bindings, a small crack appears in a wall just under the fifth Pantheon and you get access to an area called The land of Shadows where you can find an item called Weathered Mask. It doesn't do anything, it just shows as an entry for the Hunter's Journal, so it's basically just for bragging rights
Nah, I still have some bindings left

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>music is boring. It's all very cliched ambient melancholy stuff that lacks any memorable theme or melody.
Just cause you don't pick up on the motifs doesn't mean they're not there.

this, City of Tears is 10 out of 10

>downright useless, like 'removes the slight knockback you get from attacking' (this is actually detrimental
It's actually useful in several situations, such as against bosses with charging AoE attacks, you can find a safe spot in range and keep swinging without fear that you'll be knocked back into the attack.
Furthermore, in combination with quick slash it allows you to throw more attacks because you aren't delayed every two or three slashes to move into range again.
In my last playthrough it became a staple charm for me.
Each charm allows a player to extend his skills in the way he wants. Fast&downward dash lets a good player control his airtime much better and dodge horizontal attacks vertically. Speed lets you control on the ground better.
Note that we're talking about boss fights here. Nobody makes charm builds with random enemies in mind. Downward dash for example is pointless for regular enemies but helpful against certain bosses.

Didn't like it either, but I simply refunded it and didn't feel the need to try to prove to its big fanbase they're wrong.

casul

Why'd you keep playing if you didn't like it? Were you expecting it to suddenly become good nine hours in?

I found it really boring and tedious. I know backtracking is a part of metroidvanias but it always felt annoying in this game.

>very boring effects that are extremely situational or even downright useless
>In Dark Souls, normal enemies can still pose a threat
this is bait

>t. studying music theory in a university
lol why?

I mean it's better than all those people who stopped during or before Greenpath, atleast he gave the game a chance.
I actually think the best part of it is when you get your mission to find and kill the dreamers and are just kinda set loose to explore the world, which most of the haters missed out on because they stopped too early.

I love how "people" keep saying they didn't like the game but the poster count doesn't change. Op, what are you doing?

i was bored too initially. You have to look up a guide if you get stuck or dont know where to go. Just look up whats the next upgrade you must get and how to reach that area. Then do the platforming yourself.

I like Hollow Knight, but I feel my first playthrough was soured because I kept running into "dead ends." The game allows you to explore it however you like, but I constantly kept going "the wrong way." I'd reach a place where you could only advance with a specific ability. I think the game should've enabled good players who sequence break more.

I'll give you an example. Do you guys remember where you got the Double Jump ability? It was a long tunnel of spikes littering the floor. The intended method there is to acquire that ability that allows you to fly like a rocket, you'd fly over the spikes to the other side. Well, I didn't have that ability. I tried to traverse the spike room by bouncing off of the spikes with my down-slash and, as a matter of fact, I made it to the end of the tunnel doing just that. However, you get cockblocked at the end and cannot get to the Double Jump ability because it's too high up. I think the game should've rewarded me for doing it "the hard way." Instead, it was like "NAH, NIGGA. DEAD END FOR U. COME BACK WHEN YOU GOT THAT ROCKET ABILITY"

Shit like that really frustrated me.

Why are you playing metroidvanias if finding places you can’t access yet frustrates you?

He's right though. Hard-to-do sequence breaks are fun to do, they make the player feel like they outsmarted the game dev. They shouldn't be discouraged as much as they are.

The difference is that it happened way too often in Hollow Knight. I've played a lot of Metroidvanias (all of the metroid games and all of the sotn-style castlevania games and plenty of indie ones) and I've never ran into as many dead-ends as I have playing Hollow Knight.

But if they weren't discouraged would they be as fun?

Weird, considering HK is one of the metroidvanias with the least amount of mandatory traversal abilities.

In my first playthrough, I did basically everything I could do without the double jump or the crystal dash. Beat dung defender, killed herrah and monomon, even beat hornet sentinel and got the shade cloak. And used it to get to fog canyon before getting the tear.
Let me tell you, Uumuu enters new levels of fuckery when you cant land in the acid safely

>Haven't been to an HK thread in months because I've been so busy and haven't completed Pantheon 5 yet
>People still using my webm

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user, I think your memory has failed you here. You can't get shade cloak without the double jump.

Damn, user. Impressive.

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you can pogo off your shade to circumvent a few things that require double jump otherwise

I know that this whole thread is fucking lazy bait, but I really didn't like the charm system despite loving the rest of the game. Felt like a tacked on and unnecessary zoomer mechanic.

It was inspired by Paper Mario, so I don't know what's zoomer about it.

Not him, but you definitely can. I've done it. You have to be creative and patient with guiding enemies and pogoing off of them. It's pretty cool that the Abyss is still traversable without the double jump. It's like the devs expected it to happen.

>zoomer mechanic
You could have made an actual argument, and instead resorted to using buzzwords no one really knows what they mean anymore. Sad.

That is you playing, but you can't beat the fifth Pantheon? Something doesn't add up.

I know you can use primal aspids to pogo the section right before the Hornet 2 and the bench, but can you even get THERE without the double jump? IIRC you need either to swim in acid or to double jump to even get there, and the jump option doesn't have aspids in it, just hoppers you can't pogo off. Shade pogo is still an option, though.

>zoomer mechanic
Alright, I'll bite, what do you mean?

t-thanks..

nice

This is one of the most egregious cases of shitposting I've seen here recently. The thread, I mean, not your post.

I've barely played HK all year but also chipping away at it extremely slowly. I've beaten every boss in the Hall of Gods on all three difficulties and then A. Radiance on Ascended recently. So it's just a matter of time.

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Touhou Luna Nights is the best recent metroidvania. Prove me wrong.

Hang on, what? I thought Monarch Wings before Crystal Heart was possible? Where does it stop you, specifically?

yea i thought charms were fucking stupid too and ruined a lot of the reward for exploration. At least it’s something other than just geo

I beat the last 2 battles of PoH by being a bitch and using Quick+Deep Focus, Fragile Heart, and Grubsong

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If it's so good, how come i never played it?

>Utterly failed to put a dent in Failed Champion for the longest time
>Try again today
>Beat it
>Attempt first boss fight with Grimm
>Die over and over
>It finally clicks
>Beat him no sweat
Damn it's a good feeling.

So my options are to banish the troupe or fight NKG? If I banish, I'll lose access to NKG permanently, I guess? Can I still get the unbreakable charms after beating NKG?

Yep.
Nope, he's still in the Pantheon.
Nope.

>most health/soul upgrades, charms and key items that let you bypass obstacles are bought from stores rather than found, making exploration feel unrewarding
Lies

>slightly increases movement speed(useless, since you already have a dash that is faster)
Untrue

>(why on earth would you need this when you can just fall down
Shitter

Yeah, you can. Near hornet is a bench. Once you sit on that, you're good. You need to lure primal aspids to jump off though, and that's a fucking pain

JUST GIVE ME SILKSONG ALREADY YOU UPSIDE DOWN PRISON CUNTS

just watch josephanderson and shut the fuck up

I only really agree with the charms point. That whole mechanic really takes a lot away from the game, its pretty much like op said unfortunately.
But you're kind of a faggot on all the other points, it's actually a good game and is a really interesting twist on the typical Metroidvania.
You're basically just repeating either "i really suck" or "its bad because i don't like it"

Retard, you can refight all bosses

Its a rng shitfest

Its not

thanks for making me aware of this. will be playing it.

oh no, the ~130h of pure enjoyment I got in this game was actually a lie. Thank you for setting the records straight, OP, how could I live without you and your words of reddit spaced wisdom.

You sound like my friend who gave up after dying once and losing 600 geo or this guy I know who couldn't get past the soul master and gave up on the whole game.

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good work man

The retarded map system that actively discourages you from enjoying and exploring new areas when you find them is what made me drop the game.

I did that on my speedrun walkthrough so I would get shadowdash and dab on defenders

Don’t banish him

It’s not the game’s fault if you have no spatial awareness

But its the opposite, new areas means new rooms and upgrades

>or 'slightly increases movement speed' (useless, since you already have a dash that is faster)

you're supposed to combine the dashmaster & sprintmaster badges to go EVEN faster.

That said, I'm still on my playthrough and playing this shit without a guide on where the living fuck I'm supposed to go almost ruins the game to be perfectly honest

Agreed, you should play something better like Ori or Axiom Verge

At least say Environmental Station Alpha. Those two games both have shitty gameplay and are carried entirely by their solid presentation.

user, I want you to open your map and use your big boy brain and eyes and go to the areas you havent BEEN yet. Its crazy enough to work

I bought it anyways since it got a proper release for PC recently through Fangamer - a DRM free physical copy for PC

>yfw entering Infected Crossroads for the first time

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I just looked up that game it looks like an atari game lmao, i can shit better than that.
But have fun playing that garbage.

retarded grafixfag can't even reply to the right post, no wonder you like all style no substance games like Ori and Axiom Verge

>map doesn't update to show which paths are now blocked

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Just give me Silksong please.

>optional dash
I know you only read the wiki, so this might come as a surprise, but Dashmaster doesn't GIVE you the Dash. The Dash is required to beat the game and is picked up through exploration. Dashmaster just lets you Dash more frequently, which, oh hey, there's that long cooldown issue you mentioned.

>it’s a “you went into the room where you fight the Bug Fat Knight boss again but you forgot it’s locked by red goo in its infected version” episode

The worst of the series, if you ask me

He's just a casual retard that wants a dark souls-esque dodge roll and a parry button.
The "optional" dash he means is probably shadow cloak, because it's the closest thing the game has.

Soon

what the fuck

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this game looks awful.

The most broken builds in the game all rely on charms though? And there are like four prominent builds maybe?

It is doable, you just need to make yourself a little platform
youtube.com/watch?v=Mtk9jZx1CBQ

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Broken doesn't mean interesting effects. Quick Slash just increases a number, Fragile Strength just increases a number, Shaman Stone just increases a number, Mark of Pide just increases a number, Spell Twister just decreases a number, Quick Focus just decreases a number, and those are among the best charms in the game.
The only gimmick charms that are even remotely good are Sharp Shadow, Flukenest and Shape of Unn, and the last two are so only because they synergize with broken boring charms above.

you are mostly right but it is not a bad game by any means. it is 7/10 worth playing absolutely

so does [your favorite game]

Even if it all defaults to nail swinging there's still a massive difference between someone using a nail build from a spell build from a minion cheese build. Or some shitter who pretty much focuses on defensive crutches.

Why is the fireball necessary here? Can't you just pogo near the shade to make it come down?

this. based

the delusion lmao

I don't care what anyone says, parries in HK are very aesthetic

>'lets you dash downward' (why on earth would you need this when you can just fall down)

I actually used that a lot to enable the shadow dash without moving left or right.

Also useful for fast traversal.

>- Aria of Sorrow

Beyond based

You can just use descending dark when you want i-frames without dashing. In fact, you can use the 2 notches you waste on Dashmaster for Spell Twister / Soul Catcher to do it more often if you really have to.

I'm a shitter who needed to instances of stationary i-frames to deal with Pure Vessel and Absolute Radiance.

I think it's just so the Shade will get closer to you, so you're not too close to the ledge.
I guess you can do it without hitting it with vengeful spirit

>stationary i-frames
>Pure Vessel
Must be some real meme strategy, dude.

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That consistent reddit spacing