Metal Gear Solid

>le games can't have cutscens because I think cut scen is BORRRRIINGGG!!!!
Some games are built around story-telling. I don't see what the problem is here.
I wish for edgy anti-story contrarians to just kill themselves, no one thinks you're somehow 'smarter' for talking shit about cutscenes. Most games today don't have any fucking story at all, so stop whining like it's actually a relevant issue.

>what did MGS get right that many "cinematic" games in the new era like God of War (ps4), Last of Us or Uncharted get wrong?
Simply put, and especially with TLOU, devs nowadays like to mask loading screens with unengaging setpieces like "mash X to clear out the rubble", extremely slow and shallow "puzzles" like moving ladders around, scenes where your controls are limited and the character's movement is throttled to a slow walk or jog in favor of dialogue that cannot be skipped, and tons of 1 minute long moments where you have to wait for some NPC to stop talking so you can get through a door.
THAT is the problem with many modern games, it's not the length of cutscenes. It's those small moments of exposition and the obsession over immersion to make the game world feel "one" that add up and fuck with the pacing and replay value of what should have been a proper action game. With MGS games, I can, and always have skipped exposition on subsequent playthroughs, whereas modern game design doesn't separate story via traditional cutscenes and attempts to blend itself with gameplay, forcing players to sit through it whether they like it or not.

Spot on. Half Life in particular. For all the complaints about glorified unskippable cutscenes in games like The Last of Us (which I agree with), some of these people have to be reminded of HL1's intro sequence.

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There's nothing wrong with story driven games; the problem arises when the gameplay and story are divorced from one another and the story is told through cutscenes, which strip away any sort of interaction from the player. The entire strength of video games as a medium is interactivity.

The problem is completely the opposite, when the devs bend the gameplay to service their dogshit story and you get a dull slog of a game

Empirically wrong. Games like Majora's Mask, Dark Souls and many others are heightened because the gameplay and story are tightly connected, leading to an experience that can only be achieved through video games.

most slept on cinematic experience of all time

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How on earth is Dark Souls's gameplay tightly connected to its storytelling?

>MGS on the PS1 was probably the first game that started the whole "cinematic" movement in video games

Hell no! It helped popularized it because there was an actual game in it, but it was far from the first game to try that cinematic shit. Look at pc games as soon as CD-Rom took over. Phantasmagoria, The 7th Guest, some other shit I can't remember. Hell, even Sega CD had the same kind of shit with games like Night Trap. What really kicked that shit off was data storage space becoming large enough.

cinematics, QTE's, hilariously bad english voice acting, extremely slow pace, blocky controls
and yet, it was great and still is.

Play the game and find out.

Did you think this is a good cop-out and doesn't just make it clear to everyone you don't have an answer?

Why would I waste my time answering something that is so obvious to anyone who has played it? The way game mechanics are integrated into the world and manifested by other characters who aren't the MC and the way the story is told are all things that could only happen in a video game.

Not him, but Dark Souls is gameplay + story (or at least lore, because some like to nitpick on that point) + immersion/atmosphere done right. I'd also add Papers Please in there. Shit like nu-Naughty Dog isn't the right way to do things. What's truly awful is how celebrated their games are, making it seem like this the way forward for game design. For good examples of western gaming, Prey is the fucking way to go, not some watered down survival horror trash with chest-high cover.

Why would you not just answer the question if you have an answer lmao, you've spent more time now deflecting and evading than it would have taken you to answer

Papers Please is another excellent example.

cause they were cool cinematics
god of war is fucking boring
MY WIFES SOOOOON

>God of War is fucking borin-

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snake is THICC

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Because MGS is so fucking campy, and over the top. Games like TLOU try too hard to be sunday nights western TV show, meanwhile MGS tore shit open and just did whatever it wanted. It used the silly medium to do whatever the fuck it wanted, and that's why it's fun and good. Seriously my favorite series ever, it's so goddamn good and unique.

Solid Snake's ass is its own character

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Me not he
I think the endless slog is very closely connected to the story aspect of becoming hollow. Facing adversity over and over again until some give up and some triumph. Coming across the hollowed NPCs or the crestfallen NPC you talk to makes it believable in the gameworld.
The summoning mechanic and seeing other people's ghosts shows the interconnectedness of worlds and timefuckery of the story.
Much of the story is never really told to you, just comes along with the items you find during gameplay through their descriptions. Which is entirely optional, so the story is never shoved in your face.
The different types of enemies you face in different environment tells the tale of who lived there. Such as the giant enemies and friendly blacksmith in anor londo.
Shit like dat.

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You're honestly better off just watching that Metal Gear Solid THE MOVIE video on youtube instead of playing it, the gameplay has really not aged well, its pretty boring but the story is still pretty good.
the rest of the games have way better gameplay

>MGS on the PS1 was probably the first game that started the whole "cinematic" movement in video games.

Fucking babi Zoomer doesn't know the actual game that kick started it all.

youtube.com/watch?v=l6MwEu2bbPw

Half Life started the cinematic trend, but MGS helped too

Cory Balrog & Neil Druckmann both love Half Life

All of half life is one sequence there is no cutscene

>MGS on the PS1 was probably the first game that started the whole "cinematic" movement in video games

MGS has cutscenes and sometimes static cameras. That is all that makes it cinematic. Now games make you control the character during dialogue and walking which should be a cutscene.

I wanna pummel that thicc ass

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so the problem with modern western games is that they've become too weebanized.

ridiculously long cutscenes in video games would be like a movie where the entire plot is told to viewers through text in-between less important scenes. it's a fucking retarded way to deal with "storytelling" in games. I give some leeway to shorter cutscenes because so far nobody has been able to find an ideal way to tell stories in an interactive way.

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>MGS is cinematic that's what makes it cinematic
What were you trying to say in this post exactly

Snake is not that buff

his legs and ass are though

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>MGS on the PS1 was probably the first game that started the whole "cinematic" movement in video games. And yet people don't seem to mind it at all, what did MGS get right that many "cinematic" games in the new era like God of War (ps4), Last of Us or Uncharted get wrong?

Actually having a creative plot, for once.

I doubt you'll find anyone defending ridiculously long (MGS4 long) cutscenes, not that it's the norm either

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>Diablo 2 was the first
what a fucking retard

>no UI elements

this is staged footage from a trailer

I think the soundtrack is 90% of what makes MGS1 good.

You can turn the HUD off, dingus.

Dragon’s Lair actually invented the cinematic genre, but most zoom zooms think gaming history began with the SNES or PS1

i fucking hate these charts that are posted on Yea Forums

90% of them are made by the same guy.

No one cares about that game.

Pretty cool. Mechanics were too advanced for his era

MGS may have had lengthy cutscenes, but it had real gameplay.

my biggest memory of playing MGS1 on PS1 is eating an ice cream sandwich while playing the game. It was the best goddamn ice cream sandwich I've ever eaten. Cookies were fresh out of the oven. Ice cream was slightly not frozen and perfectly soft. Literally everything came together to make the perfect ice cream sandwich. I happened to be playing MGS1 at the time. I don't remember what part because the game is a giant pile of overwritten dogshit, but that doesn't matter because that ice cream sandwich fucking ruled.

i can tell how fat you are

that was the last ice cream sandwich I ever had. It could never be topped so I never had another.Since then my life have been nothing but hardcore calisthenics attempting to mold by body to the perfection of a lost ice cream sandwich.

oink oink oink!

I wish I had a memory like that, youve lived a good life user.

>MGS on the PS1 was probably the first game that started the whole "cinematic" movement in video games.
No, that was Ninja Gaiden on the NES.

Objectively or subjectively? Subjectively I can give you a laundry list of why it's one of the best PS1 games ever because I got it when I was like six and have fond memories of it that will stick with me until I die. Objectively some nip just ripped off multiple movie scripts, turned his giant intellectual property theft into a videya game, and people ate it up because not many games told a story at that level yet, even if the story was a bootleg clusterfuck combination of action movies from the 80's and 90's that made no sense and required two decades of retconning to half way puzzle out.

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MGS1 was a terrible stealth game even for the time.
People only liked it because the story was actually fun and didn't give a shit about how crazy it was.
The issue with modern cinematic games is that they're trying to channel oscarbait, whereas Kojima tried to channel 80s action thrillers.

MGS had arcade-y gameplay up until 3.
????

3's gameplay was literally the same as 2's dumbass, especially if you played the initial release with the top camera-only. The noteworthy things being different was that outside stealth interaction was awkward as fuck, and that your life meter could take a beating even on Hard.

maybe it's because the game has good gameplay, interesting story and a likeable cast. also I love the confident use of in game visuals in cutscenes instead of doing high fidelity pre render videos like any other playstation game at the time.

No their game was as "cinematic" as it was up until that point. No, not even Half Life.
It had opening movie credits, a film-like score, voice actors that were credited (however hammy), cutscenes that had cinematic action scenes and setpieces, real life guns and weapons, an intricate plot that involved real world places and politics (however fictionalized), story twists and turns, James Bond esque villains and a spy movie feel.
And yes the gameplay has aged compared to action or stealth games of the day but compared to anything else out at the time it really was novel and unique. To fully appreciate how revolutionary it was you really did have to be there when it was released, it was universally acclaimed, just go read magazine reviews from back then if you can find any

MGS was made by the Japanese.
God of War, The Last of Us and Uncharted were made by westerners.

The difference is that there was still a fun game in there even if you skipped all the cutscenes. MGS4 is what happens when MGS goes full cinematic experience and forgets to be a fucking videogame, which is what modern cinematic vidya usually do. But the rest of the series are all fun videogames first and movies second.

fpbp. All the cinematic bullshit is confined to cutscenes and codec calls, which can be skipped. There is never a "walk slowly while characters talk" section.

It knows its a video game and doesn't purport to be anything "higher". Especially when you consider what each entry did at the year they came out.

They became exalted as people realized the game had a deeper effect on them that normal fare or whatever was popular (genre) at the time.

Add on the additional 10 years later retrospective, people who were either young or not ready for it eventually realize that, for the most part, each game really had something to say.

They're all about identity and not in the gay way we know it as today. And the identity of its creator is smeared all over it.

People also forget that the gameplay is actually pretty damn good and has inspired countless inspired-by's and blatant rip offs. The stories and concepts are so batshit bananas that people often overlook this facet.

Brojima (and his teams, he admits) makes a solid fucking game. Because while he admires movies, he knows at the end of the day he's making a dumb video game. But that doesn't mean it cant say something.

Nu-GOW/TLOU/fucking everyone want to say "No guys, games are SRS BUSINESS, watch us cry because trauma. SO relate."
Rather than the other way around:
"here's a dumb video game but what if there's something you can take away from it all?"

Nope. Too retarded to educate. Blocked.

IOWJDI

Because the gameplay was actually good. The good gameplay separates MGS from the rest of cinematic garbage.

MGS has cinematic garbage in both gameplay AND cutscenes.

However, the gameplay only incorporates the visual and audio parts of it. THAT'S THE SECRET KEY TO MAKING CINEMATIC GAMES ACTUALLY GOOD.

In comparison, the cutscenes incorporate all parts of it.

3 was built around crawling in the grass. In MG2, MGS and MGS2 crawling was a way to get around vents and crawlspaces and to make your moveset feel bigger than it really is (and vents are cool spy sneaking places).
3 is focused mainly on slow burn stealth, and 4 follows it. You can play either of them fast if you git gud but Kojima didn't intend it for them like he did with the originals.

It didn't, MGS is as bad as the rest of them. Niggers just give it a free pass because they're weeaboos.

MGS gameplay was trash until MGS3.

>what did MGS get right that many "cinematic" games in the new era like God of War (ps4), Last of Us or Uncharted get wrong?
It had actual gameplay outside of the cutscenes

Retard detected, MGS3 was when the MGS series lost its way in terms of gameplay.

MGS3 was the first MGS game to actually be a halfway decent stealth game rather than a dumbed down action game.

I remember playing Another World way way back in the day and being blown away by the 'cinematic' quality. I figure that's the actual genesis.

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The gameplay is good and it's structured like a video game with clear distinctions between levels and it has boss fights.

Wow, "built to crawl in the grass". Such a difference it makes.
Oh wait the camera turns FPV-mode just like you're under a vehicle or inside of a crawlspace from the early games.

>3 is focused mainly on slow burn stealth, and 4 follows it.
Unless you play euro-extreme, 3 makes you a god and 4 even more. 2 actually had the player play slow and methodical as fuck because it would've been over in seconds with the AI tag-team in your ass. 3 decided to make the alert-phase worthwile instead of players waiting for death to happen.

I can say the same.

>For all the complaints about glorified unskippable cutscenes in games like The Last of Us (which I agree with), some of these people have to be reminded of HL1's intro sequence.
Bad comparison when HL1's only long cutscene is in the beginning. After that there aren't many moments where you don't actually get to play the game, like the lengthy talk before the fight around that portal device.

Disliking "cinematic games" is not valid opinion and everyone who says it is a fag or a Nintendo baby.

Great music and atmosphere that actually sucked you into the world.

youtube.com/watch?v=11uCccWmz0M

I hate when you are posted on Yea Forums

>3 makes you a god
On easy? Normal? Maybe
>and 4
This one is true.
>2 actually had the player play slow and methodical as fuck
Did we play the same game?

I hate when ESLs post

>shadman

Wow combat...

It had fun gameplay and the story wasn't afraid to get a little weird or crazy. Also, the cinematic aspect of the game took the form of full-fledged cutscenes that were distinctly separate from gameplay and also skippable. This contrasts with the current trend of delivering the cinematic elements through unskippable walk-and-talk segments that technically don't interrupt gameplay but are far worse for telling a story.

People never mind the "first games to bring x" as long as overall that game bought so much good to the table. RE4 has QTE's and, what is inforgivable to most of Yea Forums today: dynamic scaling difficulty. It also spawned the camerawork for what all other games get called "generic TPS" for. With all that said, try to find a majority voice anywhere that says RE4 is bad despite these iclusions.

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There's only so much storytelling you can do through gameplay. Games like Dark Souls are more about lore than story. Lore and story aren't the same thing.

The cinematic part of Half Life is its heavy use of visual set pieces.

>Simply put, and especially with TLOU, devs nowadays like to mask loading screens with unengaging setpieces like "mash X to clear out the rubble", extremely slow and shallow "puzzles" like moving ladders around, scenes where your controls are limited and the character's movement is throttled to a slow walk or jog in favor of dialogue that cannot be skipped, and tons of 1 minute long moments where you have to wait for some NPC to stop talking so you can get through a door.
>THAT is the problem with many modern games, it's not the length of cutscenes. It's those small moments of exposition and the obsession over immersion to make the game world feel "one" that add up and fuck with the pacing and replay value of what should have been a proper action game. With MGS games, I can, and always have skipped exposition on subsequent playthroughs, whereas modern game design doesn't separate story via traditional cutscenes and attempts to blend itself with gameplay, forcing players to sit through it whether they like it or not.
This. People who say that story needs to be integrated with gameplay should look at modern games to see why they're wrong. The fact is that things were actually better when story and gameplay were more separate from each other, because that actually let them better play to their strengths. Trying too hard to integrate them results in things like "press X to move rubble" and unskippable slow-walk segments that make for both bad storytelling and bad gameplay.

None of it holds up the gameplay though. Half Life 2 did, and it was an inferior game because of it.

Disegarding the beginning and the ending, cutscenes take like a minute tops, on average. Codec tricks the player into believing it's part of the gameplay and it is to a degree because of its contextuality. When you are given control of Snake, he controls really well (as long as you don't have to run and shoot).

MGS's biggest strenght lies in its atmosphere though, everyone knows that.

>Much of the story is never really told to you, just comes along with the items you find during gameplay through their descriptions.
That's lore, not story.

>story (or at least lore, because some like to nitpick on that point)
It's not a nitpick when there's a real and substantial difference between those two things.

Does this genre actually have a name? I call them cinematic platformers, but there are so few and little of them. This and Heart of Darkness were made by the same guy and the're kino as fuck.

Maybe I'd stick Abe's Oddyssey and Exoddus in there but those two feel more gameplay and skill intensive and less trial and error if that makes any sense.

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I don't know precisely what is meany by cinematic??

Is it cut-scene heavy game?
Is it streamlined linear gameplay designed to hit specific set-pieces with little player autonomy??

The Witcher 3 has lots of cutscenes but it isn't a linear game.
Half-Life has linear gameplay but it isn't full of cutscenes.

MGS was fine, as many have already said.
The really annoying shit started with unskippable cutscenes and handholding sections where you're forced to walk through an area.
Jrpgs and fps are more guilty of this.

If you are too autistic to sit through a cinematic cutscene and learn lore, stick to call of duty online, normalshit.

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I feel like you didnt even understand the OP

Because it's actually a fun game for starters. Interesting gameplay, appealing characters, good controls. I played God of War for half an hour when it came out, after taking a 4 year gap on videogames, and I was shocked at how dull it was. I can't believe this kind of thing is critically aclaimed. Pretty much the same with RDR2. It was technically impressive, and fun at times, but there's just something soulless and empty about the whole experience. You can put any AAA game in place of these two, and I'll probably feel the same way. INB4 nostalgia goggles. I've played these older games recently and they still hold up.

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This.

All those games were significant because they started the trend of action games having a more cinematic presentation. They also did it without those elements affecting gameplay too much. They either separated gameplay and cutscenes, or in the case of Half-Life you retained full control at all times.

Because the story was actually good and well written.

>S.P.E.C.I.A.L system allows for near infinite build variety
Come on
>Materia system leads to build homogenization
Come on. It's clear whoever made this is biased, I get most of these points but these two are just wrong and he knows it.

eat the bait like a champ

I hate when niggers post

EPIC SLOW MOTION, INSANE PARTICLES!
OH WOW
AMAZING