Translation > Localization

apparently Link was supposed to be speaking in 1st person originally

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>putting ugly, stiff, inelegant Japanese cliches on a pedestal
It can't be helped.

>original uses low tier internet memes from Japanese image boards
>localization translate them to low tier internet memes from American image boards
>people get mad
really makes me think

If you wanna be a writer, be a writer. Who cares if the game had cliches. It's not any westerner's job to try and punch up the script.

>comparing translations without the original
hm

TAMASHII (translator's note: TAMASHII means SOUL)

People want to believe the text is something else and they just project that onto translators. A cringey character is a cringey character, it's not the translator's job to improve him.

>What the #%$& you doin' there you spiky-headed baka chan tachi?

>t., puts in honorifics

>I'll happily eat trash, as long as it's Japanese trash!
Japanese game developers can't write. They never could. A very liberal translation like FF7 or FFTactics is lightyears higher quality than the Japanese text of the games.

imgur.com/gallery/X2w49

Ignore the autism in the first image. Fire Emblem Fates was a legitimate shitshow.

>there people that actually think it's part of the localization team to try to improve the dialogues

this is so cringe, no wonder this fucking game was the catalyst for such spergy autism

The problem is most people who localize videogames seem to think their job is rewriting, but few of them actually have the talent to pull it off. Hence the "thank God I can fix this" mentality.

>Japanese game developers can't write.

Who fucking cares? Go make a fucking game. Go write a book. If something is written badly, it's not your job as a translator to rewrite it. You are a middle-man. This type of job isn't an artistic endeavor. It's a technical one.

user, anyone who advocates for literal translations is a bad translator, and that includes muh shoganai. It's the same in every language but unfortunately Japanese is the only language with weebs who get upset about translation.

Henshin shouldn’t be translated, anyone watching Rider knows what it means, and translating it takes away from how iconic it is. It doesn’t even need to be subtitled.

>user, anyone who advocates for literal translations is a bad translator

That's not an argument. That's just you repeating yourself. I'll repeat myself too: if you literally change the meaning of something in translation, because you think the original is "bad," you are doing a shit job.

I fucking hate this shit.
When I was living in Japan and people addressed each other as "-san" in English, I'd sperg out.
It's not English mother fuckers.

"-san" "-shi" "-to" "-ku" are all JAPANESE identifiers. When translating, you should be translating this too!
Tokyo CITY
Shibuya District / Ward
Mr. Nomura

>It's not a translator's job to translate what people mean in one language into another
Every person I've ever seen say dumb shit like this has been a monolinguist.

Except for Kojima games

You're changing the topic of conversation. We are talking about westerners explicitly changing dialog and meaning in translation, because they think they can "improve" it. Go fucking write a book. You aren't doing your job right.

You damn well know that the don't want literal translations, they want ACCURATE translations. They want the text to not be full of shitty facebook memes when they weren't there in the first place ESPECIALLY when there weren't any fucking 2ch memes there in the first place.

Are you braindead or did you start arguing with that guy about a specific phrase you didn't actually understand?

>It can't be helped.

What about the ones that can't be translated?

I think that this particular problem comes from Japanese archetypes and tropes.
Such as things like "the foreigner", "the country bumpkin", "the leader".
Localizing something cultural is hard in that regard.

please be sarcasm
by that logic any time someone uses the word "mask" it should be left as kamen. And I don't mean in proper nouns, like the title Kamen Rider. Proper nouns are the only thing that shouldn't be translated.

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user-san, how can we establish our relationship if we don't use honorifics? If I just call you user, people might think we're fucking, or something.

Such as?

No, I'm arguing it's not acceptable to change those cliches just cause you think they're cliches and are bad. Do your fucking job.

>Japanese is the only language with weebs who get upset about translation.
You understand the origin of weeb right?

>translating everything literally as if it was a google translato is bad
>therefore it's ok for the localization team to replace the original text with whatever they want
When did Yea Forums get this retarded?

Quality unbutchered Japanese dialogue

youtu.be/WsSLQ-YYCBo?t=35

Based retard.

-kun -chan -sama -dono

>translating Japanese into English means NOT translating Japanese cliches into English phrases that make sense
>but making literal sentences that have no context or similar weight in English

>it's a little.... it can't be helped user-san

Link one post in this thread pushing that idea.

Mask can be used in a sentence though so no, Henshin is basically a catchphrase, its unnecessary to even sub it, it’s the one thing that should get a pass on translation.

Actually, I know that the culture is being lost on the younger generations, but we have that in English too.

There are big differences between you when you address people in the following ways:
Keiji Inafune
Keiji
Mr. Inafune
Project Lead Mr. Inafune
Inafune

all according to keikaku.

*Translator note: Keikaku means plan

Yes, that's why I said it. Japanese language has weeaboos. That's not a point worth arguing over.

Mr. is such a shit translation for -san though, it's the biggest meme

I guess it can't be helped...
Eh!?
I will never forgive you!

Nothing in that image suggests that. There's not a single first person pronoun in there and the top-left says "Inpa", suggesting that's who the text is from.

...
...
...
This is apparently called good writing by your faggot ass.
Stop trying to change the topic when it's pretty fucking explicit.
>THERE IS TEXT
>TRANSLATE TEXT
There is no 3rd step, you don't need to rewrite it to talk about what your fat ass had for breakfast yesterday when the dialogue is about a fucking war.

What are you even fucking babbling about at this point? We are talking about western localizers explicitly rewriting text and dialog that has nothing to do with the original meaning. This ia proven fact that was done in Fire Emblem Fates, the game OP is talking about. We have pages upon pages of examples.

A lot of the things people transliterate in Japanese already exist in English but some people are so up their own asses about Elegant Nihongo that they refuse to use them. We also have object counters, indirectness, and formal ways of speaking. etc.

Did you misquote me? Cause I am literally arguing everything you're saying.

why are you even arguing about a specific phrase that he said was often translated badly if you had no idea what he meant by it? He even put it in the post.

>Nothing in that image suggests that
>もう一度この目でみたい
I'm going to hold off on insulting your Japanese knowledge and just assume you didn't read the text.

Ah shit, yeah meant to hit the guy you were responding to. My bad user

OH MY PERFECT GRORIOUS NIPPONESE LANGUAGE

>youtube.com/watch?v=Mv1thb_6cgY

Localizations done right > Translations
youtube.com/watch?v=o1tivwfBkKs&t=4m

-kun and -chan can be dropped for the most part, and for when you can't we use stuff like "princess / dear" for girls, "little guy" for boys, "squirt" (ect) for everyone else.
-sama should be replaced with formal names like instead of "Patrick" it would be "Mr. Dr. Prof. Patrick" (to you)

Most of the time, it's just extra fluff. Like most Japanese conversations

Meant for this retard

Yeah, I've heard "it can't be helped" countless times. Are we misunderstanding each other? I quoted

>>putting ugly, stiff, inelegant Japanese cliches on a pedestal

saying that yes, you SHOULD put those "cliches" on a pedestal, as it's you're job to translate them. Not completely rewrite them because of some personal feeling that that cliche is bad.

Why is it always about Japanese games when the discussion on localization/translation happens?

When the "localization" you go with is more baffling to the target audience than a literal translation would have been, it's not localization, it's a pisstake.

They can be indicated with nicknames, such as "Steve-kun" becoming "Stevie," or with English honorifics and titles, such as "Madame Katrina" instead of "Katrina-sama." There are ways to translate these things, it's mainly about tone.

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Kid Icarus' localization is the reason NoA got uppity and thought shit like Fates was acceptable.

This is the truth.
In Japan, I've never met a group of expats so up their own asses as there.

>EOP
Most of the people I've known that advocate for literal translations were ESL though.

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Hurrr my ideal translation done perfectly > localization durrr

Pretty sure that specific example was some kind of technical error, especially since their B rank acts like they had the regular C rank convo.

Ok, what do you suggest?
You can't use -san because it's not English

You've personally known many people passionately arguing about translations?

No, it was a joke. A bad one. They're silent assassins, so they bonded over being quiet together.

>LITERALLY admitting shit like POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPIIIIIIIIINNGGGGGG is okay just because it's in fucking weabspeak

get some fucking standards

Holy fucking shit!!
That is actually way WAY worse than the translations weebs and Fire Emblem fags like to sperg about
Holy shit

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>can be dropped for the most part
So how do you represent someone who previously called someone X-san to X-chan and it can't be a nickname because then when the nickname is given later on where do you go from there? It's meant to represent respect and closeness. Even more so when you go from Last name-san to First name-san to First name-chan
How do you represent that with highschoolers?

>We are talking about westerners explicitly changing dialog and meaning in translation, because they think they can "improve" it. Go fucking write a book. You aren't doing your job right.

This. It's one thing to use a western idiom to convey the feeling of a Japanese idiom, and another thing entirely to change the tone and meaning of the dialogue. Nintendo Treehouse is notorious for this. They turned poor Effie into a ridiculous parody of her original self, giving her lines about how buff she is and stupid shit like that, instead of her original Japanese personality where she's embarrassed by her strength.

That is why people are pissed at Treehouse.

Yes it's a pretty common topic in scanlation

user, you don't transliterate set phrases. If a character says ちょっと in one context you translate it as "no", not "a little..." If you put it on a pedestal and translate it literally it's meaningless.

Because Japanese culture values repeated words and phrases. They don't balk at conformity like Western culture does and that's why you'll hear the same 10-12 meme lines like "It can't be helped" in every Japanese media property. Among good Western writers, finding your unique voice is very important. Media consumers expect it.

I don't know, and mr. can work in some cases, depends on the context, but it's definitely not at all appropriate for most cases

Okay but can you prove that? Because some kind of machine error is honestly the most plausible explanation, especially since no other conversation in the entire game goes as off base as that one specific example

>reading comprehension: 0
Embarrassing

And that's why they use localization in the first place.
They are supposed to decide those things.

Remember when you retards made a card for treehouse when they made this level of shit?

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Because it's the only place that SJW faggots have any power in Japanese games. Every time they whine about how "problematic" a Jap game is, they get ignored or laughed at for being a bunch of loser faggots. This is the only time they can stick it to those EVUL JAPS WHO DON'T RESPECT THEIR "HEROIC" ENDEAVORS

My proof is the fact that Fire Emblem Fates was the worst localzation of the 21st century, and featured countless rewrites and cut content.

imgur.com/gallery/X2w49

They took out gameplay elements. Rewrote characters. Changed names arbitrarily.

And in what context does "SLAPPYFACE!" have meaning?

How did you communicate with new friends in those situations?
Do that.

It would be a lot easier if it wasn't a fucking thumbnail inside a thumbnail, but from what I can read: "Go save Zelda already you slow fuck, I wanna see her smile again". And again, Inpa's clearly written at the top left. And since the text in the box is always from the quest giver...

Doesnt that game also have some fairly serious dialogue between 2 people get translated entirely as them going ...... back and forth?
I dont play fire emblem but I think thats the series right

Localization is one thing. It's kind of an inevitable process that games need to go through, because literal Japanese to English is kind of fucking awful. Changing context and even content because some shitty writer thinks they're so funny or have an agenda is the real problem. And then there's just incompetence.

Sonic Forces wasn't a good game but i'll still bitch about the fact that Ken Pontac somehow completely dropped a small subplot and edged up his localization of it.

Agreed.

Why do video games attract so many fucking wanna be writers,film directors, and actors? Every fucking translator thinks he's a writer, every fucking VA thinks he's a Hollywood star, every fucking director thinks he's a film maker. Way too many fucking failures fall back on this medium, because they couldn't cut it into what they actually wanted to do.

JUST
DO
YOUR
FUCKING
JOB

TRANSLATE, don't shoe horn your fucking amateur fanfic and your epic inside jokes and social media references. Your job isn't making the fucking text exciting, it's making it intelligible. SLAPYFACE! is not a fucking translation, feminist/SJW monologues are not fucking translation. If you hate Japanese media so much, why the fuck are you working on them?

you say that like Henshin can't be used in a sentence. What about the iconic "Please watch my [Henshin]" from Kamen Rider Kuuga? Or the transformation jingle "Shabadoobie touch to [Henshin]" from Wizard? Nevermind when the phrase is changed slightly like, again with Kuuga, [Chou Henshin] or Ex-Aid saying [Dai Henshin.] Should those be untranslated? You may expect the average Rider fan to know what Henshin means, but Chou or Dai are not going to immediately spring to mind.

And this is all forgetting of course that you're assuming everyone watching Rider is already a fan. There are new fans of it born every day, they aren't going to necessarily know what the phrase means their first time viewing. What's the point of leaving them in the dark? I don't like to throw around retarded complaints like "gatekeeping" but it is completely unhelpful to someone looking for an English translation to leave terms in Japanese in every single episode and when someone complains say "you should know what that means by now."

Either way, Henshin was just an example I used. The entire practice is terrible regardless.

We're not arguing against transliteration you actual retard. We're talking about changing the spirit and intent of the writing through translation. Like when they turned Effie into a hulking retard instead of a demure woman embarrassed by her own strength.

Yes. See The localization is so bad, that this user is wondering if some of the changes by NoA were a glitch in the game.

>JP VERSION
>it's in English
really wrinkles the brain

oh boy another thread where retards think the people who don't want meme-filled rewrites of the original MUST want extremely literal translations instead of just accurate ones

>In a time where games can be patched
>This very clear bug is not patched
>Not only that but the data in question was replaced with dots AND shortened to more than half it's length(an explicit variable change)
>Just a bug
DOUBT

Translating shoganai and co. as "it can't be helped" and other pedestal-tier translations is changing spirit and intent bro.

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Localize it to what though? Aside from mr. in the few specific situations where it's appropriate, it has no equivalent in English for most cases which would call it to be dropped entirely, which works for conveying the same information, sure, but completely loses the nuance, which as far as I know is the whole point of localization, to not just convey the literal meaning of the dialogue but also the nuance

Most of my pet peeves with translating/localizing honorifics is its inclusion in sentences that don't work in an English speaking environment. Classic example, students referring to their peers with the title Mr and Miss.

Sometimes it's better to not include it at all, and I always find it ironic that this fact looms over localizers of all people. No different than a shitty, half-ass translation.

It's a parody of one piece translations since some fags insist nakama can't be translated as comrades

right, but in every single one of those cases, they still used the original text as a base and made changes from there.

Only once in all of Fate's hundreds of thousands of lines of dialogue do they completely gut out the support and then act like the still had the conversation. So don't you think that's fishy?

No it's not, I've literally said that replacing idioms with idioms is acceptable and understood. I'm talking about changing the entire personality of a character when it's not your fucking job to write the character.

>Shikata ga nai means it really do be that way

Would it not be appropriate to translate Kamen Rider as "Masked Rider"?

I feel like it's okay to use -san when it would be polite to do so in English. Like if you're in Japan or talking to a Japanese person, then you could use it. Using "Mr." is probably the best way to express that politeness in English though.

I don't think it's fishy in a "someone fucked up on a technical level" kind of fishy. I think it's fishy in a "I rewote this scene, and then forgot to compensate for the rewrite" kind of fishy.

Not that guy, but on an unrelated note.

Viewtiful Joe had that catch phrase, "Henshin a go go" or something like that.
I always thought that was strange.

Lunar localization both had soul and was also kind of dumb

youtube.com/watch?v=2UapMPX5iYc

"It can't be helped" is not an English idiom.

I already said earlier proper nouns were an exception to the rule, but even then it was translated on all official material as Masked Rider from Kuuga to Decade and I'm not 100% sure why they changed it from W onwards honestly.

>So how do you represent someone who previously called someone X-san to X-chan and it can't be a nickname because then when the nickname is given later on where do you go from there?
If it's for putting the person down you make the sentences come off as ruder or at least belittling. So if it's like
>Tachibana-chan I need you over here.
you go
>Oy, Tachibana, get over here.
Then later on you can still go
>Tacchy, move your ass.

If it's just playful
>Tachibana-chan, can you bring the bacon to me?
can be
>Hey Tachibana, mind scurrying that bacon over to me?
and then when you add in the nickname it can be like
>Bacon? Hey Tacchy, mind bringing that over here?

It's not like you need major changes to account for honorifics, at most you just need to reword how a person addresses others. You can easily tell when someone is being sarcastic or playful, especially with character building, so why not take advantage of that? You don't have to take liberties to do it either.

At my work I get added to email chains with Japanese engineers all the time, and they always add honorifics instead of "Mr.", etc. even when writing in English.

I would just torch that phrase because every time one of my coworkers said it in Japan, I wanted to fucking strangle them.
It's like Chinese "Mei ban fa" which means "Nothing can be done" or "There's nothing we can do".

It's a cop out and lazy.

yeah but Joe's whole thing is being the kinda dweeb that would say Henshin in the middle of an English sentence anyway.

If they want that level of nuance, then why are they consuming a localization?
Just learn the language directly at that point.

I add the "my nigga" prefix. So "my nigga user" and "my nigga other user"

Or allies

>Japan - A highly formal society that's focused on respect and hierarchy
>The West - A predominantly highly casual society that's focussed on ease of communication and openness.
It's almost like you can't because of the inherent differences.
In the west you skip the equivelent of "Lastname-san" and go straight to first name basis, or depending on how casual your country is even skip the the entire chain and go straight to nicknames. The West and Japan are too different to be comparable in this regard. It's a cultural difference that needs to be addressed or things come across retarded when suddenly a huge point in a relationship where the couple give each other nicknames is just them using the same nicknames they've been using the past 20 hours.
>But you can use new ones
That are ALWAYS used later.

Ok but what was the best translation? Perhaps even better than the original.

This is why direct translation gets a bad name. Retards like you think it means machine translations that ignores all forms of context, when what people really meant by is "don't fuck with the script inserting bullshit from nowhere".

>I already said earlier proper nouns were an exception to the rule
I know, but I'm saying maybe it's okay to translate certain proper nouns. "Kamen Rider" doesn't make sense in English, but it's easily translated as "[the] Masked Rider," which is just as snappy while actually having some meaning to an English speaking person.

Is Treehouse the CalArts of localization teams? Or does some other studio have that honor?

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It's because it's not as big as movies yet so they feel that once it truly becomes as big as film(it never will) they'll be the next (insert Hollywood people names here, I don't know any of those fucks)

MASKED RIDURR
MASKED RIDURR

I've worked with Japanese people for years.
The only people who refer to each other as -san in English tend to be other Japanese people and wanna bees.
I've always used "Mr." "Ms." to address my higher ups and they always called me polite.

Honestly, I think that has something to do with them just not being used to English.

Animal Crossing's localization was so good they re-translated it back into Japanese and used it for the expanded version there.

>putting ugly, stiff, inelegant Japanese cliches on a pedestal
>saying that yes, you SHOULD put those "cliches" on a pedestal,
>Not completely rewrite them
The only way to translate set phrases and idioms is TO rewrite them.

Yeah. Kind of brings personality to the game.

And introducing Ferbus

A midget in a fursuit who doesn't even get a fucking cast credit.

>they aren't going to necessarily know what the phrase means their first time viewing
They learn very quickly since the first time it's said the protag transforms. Also HENSHIN sounds a fuck load nicer on the ears than TRANSFORM

Why would you ever not want that level of nuance? What kind of backwards-ass logic is that?

"SLAPPYFACE!"

People go to TV when they arent good enough for film. These fags arent even good enough to be working in TV.

Perfect

Clearly it should be translated to "IT'S MORPHIN' TIME!"

What were those wacky Jew licensers thinking

What the fuck happened, man? How did we go from the Treehouse of then to the Treehouse of now?

okay user, slappyface.

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In my opinion it's a draw between KI Uprising and AW Days of Ruin.

>left one is actually interesting and unique for weeb standards
>right one is boring samey weeb dialogue we've heard a billion times already from every Nipponoid "romance"

I sperg out when that happens.
It's not their fault, but if we're going to use English, then let's fucking do it 100%

>watching some hentai back in the early 90s
>has subs, a rare thing
>audio: "Onii-chan!"
>subs: DEVIL BABY
that was peak quality, it doesn't get better from there

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The left one is dialog I exported out of my F-list chatlogs.

>Henshin is basically a catchphrase
No, "Henshin" is them literally shouting "Transform", the catchphrase is something they say after like Blade going ウェーイ, W going "Count up your crimes", Fourze going "Space is awesome", Decade going "I'm just a Kamen Rider passing through", Zeronos going "Let me warn you right off the bat, I'm pretty strong", etc. Hell, we can use your argument and say "宇宙キター" should not be translated because it can mean a lot of things.

nakama is perfectly translatable as "comrade" though.

It gets to a point where the nuance is so granular that it's just not worth the localization.

You're talking about a game series where everyone besides the main cast of maybe 8 protagonists and villains only get like 20 lines. Every one better be bursting with personality and at least the left is trying.

Now you're thinking in localization

>Interesting and unique
>Literally a hot topic t shirt quote

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Language changes you 20 year old boomer dumb fuck
lmao

That was a kino time.

Well, look at OP. That's what happens when you make the Japanese script less "dry and boring". Do you like it?

That's great. You go make your own SRPG. It's not your fucking job to ensure everything is "bursting with personality." That was some Japanese fucker's task that he completed 11 months ago.

Because those things take work, and why work when you can put whatever meme is trending right now and a few years back. I heard the gutting was so bad a few games weren't able to use DLC because things were so different from the original and the DLC won't make any sense and NoJ stepped in, fired the hacks from Treehouse and put things in order.

>it's bad because I saw it too many times!
Oh, the fucking irony. Have some self-awareness for a change.

>Let's add honorifics to English LMAO
Spotted the retard
Don't you realize that it's a push-back against the change?

>changing "I'm happy" to "I love you"

OH MY GOD.
SHUT
DOWN

EVERYTHING!

pick your fucking battles you dipshit

this is absolutely fine
the only mistake is plastering translation on top
let the people learn and research what those mean by themselves
go back to l3ddit if you disagree, faggots

>honorifics are the same as titles

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You talking about Splatoon 2? Treehouse had to retcon a character to be nicer because they made her a completely different person than the original.
That's something I don't usually see get mentioned in these threads, but Treehouse gutted Splatoon 1 and 2 too.

You still didn't say how to go through the full sequence. You skipped san right away and start talking about belittling people. San to chan isn't belittling or just being playful it's a whole difference in respect and friendship and is often a key point in things like mahou shoujo where the protags become closer friends, your examples are hardly comparable. Also you just changed a character's entire personality to a whole different personality in your examples.

Then what are they?

It changed the context to her speaking in a nonsensical dragon language that literally amounted to some westerner slamming his hands on a keyboard.

youtube.com/watch?v=dxifdhr-Ma8

Attached: .gif (250x251, 998K)

Then how would you LOCALIZE them gayboy?

Hope the japs shat on you as hard as they could you dumb nerd dorkoid pedant.

Begone shill

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by elevating myself as a writer and changing all the dialog so it makes sense without them

Nah, they loved me.
Nice post by the way. ESL?

So you don't care about the original script or intention at all? Just mute the voices, turn off subtitles, and skip cutscenes at this point. Otherwise you're treating it as insignificant trash. "As long as it entertains me in the moment, I don't care."

>lmao if you care so much about translations, why aren't you a translator
choke on a cock and kill yourself, dumbfuck.

Nintendo's press events are one of the best examples of this. They always refer to the Japanese employees as Mr. Miyamoto, Mr. Iwata, or Mr. Aonuma. But the American employees (with the exception of Doug Bowser because they want to play up his last name) are always referred to just by their first name like Reggie and Bill.

All according to keiku!
Editor's notes: keiku means plan

Why do you speak of localization as if it must be done regardless?

>being a pedant about language is the only thing I have in my life
You really are 100% anglo as that is the closest thing to culture for you people.

What? That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying if you want to rewrite and change the context of dialog because you think your own personal material is simply better, then you probably shouldn't be in the translation business. You should be out there hoofing it as a writer.

>Have a serious event like Sento dealing with the fact he killed Kazumi's bros, has to transform, a serious moment all the weight in his voice choking up as he says HENSHIN
>Change it to "it's morphin' time"
Way to ruin an emotional scene faggot

>You still didn't say how to go through the full sequence
Depends how the character is at first. Is the character sarcastic? An asshole? A joker? A polite person? That determines your baseline for where -san starts when it comes to conversing with a person. The sentences where -san would be used would require you to slightly retool them to show that level of respect towards a person considering -san can be a means of addressing someone normally, respectfully, generally, or with contempt, it's all in the context of how it's being used and who it's being used by in the first place.
Again, -chan's usage depends entirely on WHY it's being used in the first place. Is it for friendship? Is it for sarcasm? Is it for belittlement? Regardless of what it is you reword what the character says while keeping the intent of that -chan usage. If it's for friendship make the sentences sound more sincere and friendlier. If it's for sarcasm you can have them say their name normally but make the sentence itself sarcastic. If it's for belittlement you can reword the sentence to talk down to a person without making it a nickname.

Even in a mahou shoujo you can go from a neutral speech pattern that's slightly friendly when they address their friends with -san and then go to much more open and friendly wording when -chan starts getting put in because presumably they'd be doing that regardless.

I think it would be pretty morphenomenal.

>You can still localize a game and be faithful to the original script.
You literally can't, the entire aim of localisation is contrary to faithful translation.

Please provide adequate English equivalents for all of these.

Attached: localiser's nightmare.png (811x635, 842K)

I'm pretty sure the moment is already ruined by his belt screaming ARE YOU READY? like it's a hypeman.

Whoops, guess my dick is bigger in the end ;^)

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>then go to much more open and friendly wording when -chan starts getting put in because presumably they'd be doing that regardless.
And that's an assumption based on a single personality type not all types in general which is why I'm saying it just doesn't work in a general context. You're changing the characters and their personalities far too much because the nuance of honorifics just doesn't exist in the west.

>Call me whatever you like
Wow, that was hard.

what did it say?

Nakama works so perfectly fine as comrades that it just makes me confused when CR/Funi choose to translate it as "friends" instead.

I didn't ask you to provide an English equivalent of what was already in English, weasel-kun.

>Ah! Sorry.
>Ageha is now my sister.
>Haha. What a great day.
>Hideo is now my brother.
>As for us... Yeah, brother.
>Call me whatever.
Bravo nolan.

>He doesn't understand how that weighs the situation down more
Watch Grease's Grease Blizzard Henshin and you'll see why the belt holds so much weight in that ARE YOU READY

>also any translation that doesn't translate honorifics or "words you should know by now" (for example. "henshin" in a Kamen Rider show)
Even TV-Nihon doesn't do this anymore. but Commie still wants to pretend they're the gold standard for literal translations.

Over-Time's Build subs had a lot of bizarre choices in them, though by this point I've mostly forgotten them.

Attached: [Over-Time] Kamen Rider Build - 09 [7CDEBD4E].mkv_snapshot_02.10_[2017.11.04_15.40.26].jpg (1280x2160, 523K)

"Age, Ageha, Geha, sis, sister, little sister, little sis, lil sister, lil sis, stupid brat; all would prove acceptable. Call us what you will!"
It doesn't have to be 1:1, it just needs to convey the same idea to an English audience that it did to the Japanese audience.

the tactics retranslation is shit because it changed the queen reference

>You're changing the characters and their personalities far too much
In what way? If you have the cold girl who addresses her friends with -san, and then she finally starts using -chan you don't have to go full flowery "O-M-G Becky look at her butt" speak, you can just have her speak slightly friendlier like "Hey, it's nice to see you're back" instead of "You're back". The former is far friendlier but still shows the person is reserved (Because you'd be seeing the character saying these things anyway and already have their personality from characterization), and "You're back" shows the person is matter-a-fact and most likely distant.
If you have the preppy teen who loves everyone and the world addressing her friends with -san and when she starts using -chan she acts closer to a character there's nothing wrong with making her speak much more relaxed/open. With -san you could make the girl act like "Hey Cherry, didn't you just love the flowers outside?" to "Cherry, can you believe the flowers outside? They're full of life!" or something like that. She's still friendly and open with the girl, but in the second example she's acting as if the person she's speaking to is someone she's more open to. Then when a nickname is added you can get even more open and honest with the discussions.

I'm not saying you need to add things that aren't there and write a brand new story, I'm saying you need to reword things to make it word right without changing the meaning or adding any new information that wasn't there from the beginning.

I'm not sure if I'm meant to take this seriously or not.

Good job, you didn't even get the age, gender, or character in question right, even before your choices of translation. You managed to fuck up every thing you could fuck up.

Speaking of Over-Time, will they EVER FUCKING FINISH YOSHIHIKO?!

that's like saying Mega Man X5 on the X Legacy Collection sucks because it got rid of the Guns'n'Roses boss names that Alyson Court inexplicably tossed in to appeal to her then-husband.

Weebs ruin everything. Especially anime. A lot of what I've seen lately seems to be so cringy cause of literal one to one translation of EVERYTHING. This image perfectly encapsulates how they want it.

youd be retarded to expect otherwise

"Kept you waiting, huh?"
iykyk

My bad, I didn't actually read your VN dialogue because I'm not a localizer and I don't care. The point still stands, though.
Hide, Hideo, older brother, big bro, etc.
Getting an exact translation is both impossible and unnecessary, all you do is get the point across that he's listing a ludicrous amount of possible nicknames with slight permutations

I'm a translator and I like my job. I go to work and just translate a patent or two and I'm done for the day. Pretty comfy desu

1) By context, figure out what the personal dynamics of the scene are. Is someone being regular polite, slightly condescendingly polite because they're talking to a kid, condescendingly polite because they're an arrogant jackass, etc.
2) Use word choice and tone to communicate what is going on between the characters.

Imagine if we were all ouiaboos, for example. When translating a scene that depends on the difference between referring to someone as "tu" or "vous", would we really insist on keeping those words untranslated because that's the only way to preserve the nuance of the scene? No, you'd figure out whether someone was being over-familiar, or if it was a casual context, and so on, then translate the dialogue in light of that. Why treat Japanese any different?

Congratulations, you've demonstrated the ability to think, an ability beyond most localizers and 90% of the people in these threads.

>Be a translator for the military
>Decide to "punch up" the secret terrorist correspondence you were tasked with deciphering
>Remember a funny meme
>Higher ups are baffled by the repeated insistence that "SLAM will dominate the Earth."

>The point still stands, though.
No it doesn't, because you completely missed the point. No one asked you to provide a vague gist of the original line while removing the Japanese honorifics, which is what you did; you were asked to provide equivalents of them, which you've made no attempt to do.

Because to do so is stupid, impossible, and unnecessary, like I said.
That is my point, I don't give a shit what you asked.

>Tifa, we must regroup with our allies: the Avalanche Company.
>No Cloud, we must first stop Shinra Corporation's Mako Reactor.
WOW SO FUCKING HARD

>Because to do so is stupid, impossible, and unnecessary
Because you are still missing the point and focusing on trying to localise the particular line instead of doing what's actually being asked to you and seeing the wider picture that these honorifics appear outside of that single particular line in one work.

This is a debate you can't win no matter what side you're on

>Cloud Strife
>not Kuraudo Sutoraifu

Shit translation

What really gets me about anti-honorificsfags is that they're really only being asked to learn and remember some 30 words, which is less than the typical game's made up terms relating to the setting that you're tasked with remembering. You learn these words once from seeing them once and then you know them forever. Why is this an unreasonable request?

Attached: 1562293782073.jpg (617x707, 91K)

And you can get a general equivalent of them all that doesn't detract from an English-speaker's understanding at all
English relies on tone to convey such things, the names and titles themselves are largely irrelevant

Not that user, but to be fair, there can be a positive outcome from a localization. For instance FF6 received much more positive praise in the west for Woolsey's translation adding a bit of characterization that was lacking. I believe Square expressed surprise that it was so beloved in the west because of the lackluster reception it got in Japan.

>You can still localize a game and be faithful to the original script
No you can't. Localization literally means you change everything to suit your percieved notion of what your country likes.

Not every instance of localization is dog shit but it requires people with actual talent.
Back when treehouse had actual talent they did good stuff

Oh, I love FF6! Who's your favroite character? For me, it's gotta be either Mash or Tina.

I don't get why people obsess over "muh honorifics" but don't care that other aspects of polite speech are translated normally. I watched an anime a while ago where the main character used "otaku" for "you" but spoke normally in the translation. this is leaving out way more than dropping -san but no one seems to care.

I never played the megaman games but final fantasy tactics was a spiritual successor to the ogre battle series which all had references to queen songs. removing the reference from fft means the translator either didn't get that it was supposed to be a reference or thought that he was important to arbitrarily remove it. either way is indefensible.

lo·cal·i·za·tion
/ˌlōkələˈzāSHən,ˌlōkəˌlīˈzāSHən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the process of making something local in character or restricting it to a particular place.

guess I better stop procrastinating learning nip

>And you can get a general equivalent of them all that doesn't detract from an English-speaker's understanding at all
If you actually believe this, then we can go back to the initial post where you were asked to provide such equivalents, since you still haven't done so.
>English relies on tone to convey such things, the names and titles themselves are largely irrelevant
And Japan definitely doesn't. Oh wait, you're retarded.

Attached: In which beelzebub insults azazel by stressing the -kun when referring to him.png (822x1200, 479K)

Why did they change his hair color too?

Big bro and older brother. Done.

why translate numbers there's only 10 of them? why translate days of the week there's only 7 of them. why translate anything when you can just learn another language?

>localizations of the Mario RPGs end up great
>port the original N64 Animal Crossing to Gamecube, and not only translate and localize, but also add in tons of shit like the NES games, to the point where this new version is ported back into Japan
>Sakurai tells them to dump the Uprising script and do whatever they want, and end up with something amazing that gives better characterization to characters like Hades

>fuck up Fates and #TMS to the point sales drop

What the fuck happened to Treehouse? They used to rule.

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Because there's no reason not to translate those, because no nuance is lost by translating them, not is there any question of how to translate them nor any difficulty involved in preserving the meaning while translating them.
Why did you respond with such unreasonable and obvious hyperbole?

You saw the kind of vermin that had infested the place around the time of fates. Thinking about that video where they were celebrating how they were butchering fates still mildly upsets me.

14 more to go.

>>Sakurai tells them to dump the Uprising script and do whatever they want, and end up with something amazing that gives better characterization to characters like Hades
Oh look, it's another "Hades in Japanese was a dry serious villain with no personality" retard.

Not him but I heard that about the guy from splatoon too.
Was I being rused?

I really don't understand. What the fuck happened after KI:U? They even picked good voice actors for that game. Yet only 3 years later, they completely did a 180 and started fucking up on a scale no one could've imagined before.

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Yes, localisation proponents always argue "the original was lifeless and boring" as a way to prop up their rewrites.

They got cocky.

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Hapurubokka.

Aka Nibelsnarf.

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How dense do you have to be to miss my point this hard? YOU DON'T NEED ANY MORE. English speakers do not need 100 different friendship titles because we don't think or talk like that. If we're more familiar with someone, we convey that through relaxed language, sarcasm, or other tonal shifts.

Are all translations done by treehouse? I though XBC2 was _______mostly pretty good

To be fair, sometimes the original really is boring.
But that doesn't justify what happens afterwards where the localizers essentially throw out the original script and can't even respect the fucking tone of the original.

>Commie tier "translation"
yuck, disgusting.

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>Bro I can totally provide English equivalents of these
>Ok, go for it
>UH YOU DON'T NEED THEM
Good job.
>English speakers do not need 100 different friendship titles because we don't think or talk like that
It's a shame we're dealing with Japanese games about Japanese characters in Japan from Japan then.
>If we're more familiar with someone, we convey that through relaxed language, sarcasm, or other tonal shifts.
Which Japan also does, as noted in that manga page I posted previously. Just how ignorant are you?

Xenoblade 2 was Nintendo Europe. It also had a butchered script so please raise your standards.

Well that's nice I guess, I really loved octavio and was kind of saddened that he wasn't the same in nip.

Kid Icarus Uprising was outright insulting. Even discounting the localization, you're still playing a God of War clone with horrid controls that will destroy your hands and/or 3DS, combined with the most asinine weapon-looting system around.

Octavio was the only good part of Treehouse's localization of Splatoon.

>why give characters accents when they didn't have any in the original
Isn't it almost always the case that they make people from Osaka sound like country folk? Like Majima in Yakuza 0.

Your solution is just rewrites that don't carry the tone that will inevitably result in more rewrites to cover this up as other changes happen down the line.

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The english equivalent of multiple honorifics is the use of sarcasm, tone and word choice. That's what he's saying.

What he said was he could provide equivalents, and then he didn't and claimed you had to write around them, which is completely missing the point. Writing around them in the first place is also missing the point of the information contained within them being conveyed instantly. Pic related.

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>Still too stupid to comprehend a basic statement
>This picture of a translated manga will make my point about Japanese speech patterns clear!
We're done here. No one could ever possibly break through to you. Enjoy a life of simplicity.

Undeniable truth.
Also
Fuck NISA
Fuck IFI
Fuck Spike Chunsoft
And fuck Nicalis

Does anyone know how the english script for Three Houses turned out?
Did Treehouse even localize it or was it someone else? It's oddly hard to find info on this.

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Slappyface is the proper localization though. Haugh!! is just lazy.

I love Persona and (new) Yakuza games translations!!!! KIRYU-CHAAAAAN! RYUJI-KUUUUUN!
fuck localizers and fuck commie.

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The equivalent to all 16 of your honorifics is "big bro" or "older brother". Why is that so hard for you to fathom?
Oh, because without muh equivalents, you have no argument

>that don't carry the tone
In what way couldn't they carry the tone with that method?

This is the meme soi gen your talking about. Why do you think everyone knows what nani and omae wa mou shindeiru is and nothing else from their favorite game or anime?

I quit looking for localization once I started noticing the word literally in shit like Judgements translation.

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How bad is judge eyes' translation? Weren't they talking about having both translation and localization for the game?

>In what way? If you have the cold girl who addresses her friends with -san, and then she finally starts using -chan you don't have to go full flowery "O-M-G Becky look at her butt" speak, you can just have her speak slightly friendlier like "Hey, it's nice to see you're back" instead of "You're back".
A character changing their use of honorifics is not changing the way they speak. Why would a shy character who changes their choice of honorifics to someone else suddenly start speaking differently in general? This is also putting aside that a change of honorifics is an immediately obvious and direct change, as opposed to your choice of rewriting dialogue to try and reflect that.
>I'm not saying you need to add things that aren't there and write a brand new story, I'm saying you need to reword things to make it word right without changing the meaning or adding any new information that wasn't there from the beginning.
Your given examples are changing the meaning and adding new information that wasn't there.
>"Hey Cherry, didn't you just love the flowers outside?" to "Cherry, can you believe the flowers outside? They're full of life!"
Do you not even realise you invented a new line of dialogue in this example?

Because the meaning of honorifics is not always reflected in the meaning of the chosen words. This is basic language and implication. See the given example of Azazel-kun here where Beelzebub is being polite on the surface but being insulting in how he refers to Azazel as -kun. Changing that to an overt insult to avoid using -kun would completely miss the point.

>The equivalent to all 16 of your honorifics is "big bro" or "older brother". Why is that so hard for you to fathom?
Good job, you completely failed to preserve the information of all of them and those choices would be wildly out of place for the vast majority. Do you want to work at Funimation?

They actually only gave separate translations for the voiced dialogue and everything that isn't voiced got the localisation treatment.

>Because the meaning of honorifics is not always reflected in the meaning of the chosen words. This is basic language and implication. See the given example of Azazel-kun here # where Beelzebub is being polite on the surface but being insulting in how he refers to Azazel as -kun. Changing that to an overt insult to avoid using -kun would completely miss the point.
Because it's totally impossible to appear polite on the surface while subtly insulting someone in English, isn't it, user?

That's a bummer I guess.
Is this a big change or has the series been localized for the past few years? I didn't have much problem with any of the games in terms of translation, I evern went and bought an old ps3 for 3-5

every time without fail these threads turn into honorific arguments
omitting honorifics isn't even in the top 10 list of things localizers do to get mad about, get the fuck over it

relying only on text? yes

I don't really care whether honorifics are kept or not personally, but for most it's just the simple answer that it doesn't sound "right" in non-Japanese languages. It's just a difference in culture that's all. So long as the "cultural adaptations" don't involve major rewrites or censorship, I see no reason to complain.

>Because it's totally impossible to appear polite on the surface while subtly insulting someone in English, isn't it, user?
Good job user, you used sarcasm. Now why can't you understand that the same thing can be layered with honorifics? Why did you ignore the entire rest of the post pointing out the problems with that guy's attempts at localisation?

And that, my friends, is autism.

>Why would a shy character who changes their choice of honorifics to someone else suddenly start speaking differently in general?
People already do naturally change the way they speak as they become more comfortable around the recipient. Shy people just take much longer to become comfortable. An immediately obvious and direct change for a shy characger would be taking any lead in a conversation.

>Changing that to an overt insult to avoid using -kun would completely miss the point.
You wouldn't do that. You'd use the english equivalent of "polite but actually insulting", such as passive aggressiveness or a backhanded compliment.

>You'd use the english equivalent of "polite but actually insulting", such as passive aggressiveness or a backhanded compliment.
which isn't the same thing, retard

>Now why can't you understand that the same thing can be layered with honorifics?
Sure, it can, but it never needs to be. It does not add anything to an english translation because it means nothing to English speakers. Any concept contained in an honorific can and should be conveyed in a way your audience can understand.

then please, by all means, localize for us

weeaboos needs to DIE

As far as Yakuza goes they brought in honorifics to remain more faithful to the Japanese than the earlier games were, but at the same time 0 was still using the localised character names instead of restoring them (Yakuza 1 changed some names for no reason and they've never undone that), kept reversed name order, and also changed some honorifics into other honorifics like Atlus did with Yukaricchi -> Yuka-tan. So it's in this weird spot of being ostensibly faithful while still being weirdly liberal.

Give the same exact message the japanese are getting, I don't give two fucks if it is boring or not, I didn't pay to get shitty amateur jokes from retards who feel they should overwrite the author opinions.

>LOCALIZE THIS ONE PAGE OF A MANGA ABOUT A DEMON DOG WITHOUT ANY PRIOR CONTEXT FOR ME IN ORDER TO PROVE YOUR GENERAL STATEMENT ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF HONORIFICS

>but at the same time 0 was still using the localised character names instead of restoring them (Yakuza 1 changed some names for no reason and they've never undone that)
I know specifically that 0 fixed the names (and K1 and K2 did as well), I got thrown for a loop when I started playing 3 though since they were using whatever the fuck they were calling kazama then.

well i suppose it's possible they still have other character names changed, but none that I'm aware of and are consistent at least through all of the games currently in english

>Sure, it can, but it never needs to be.
It doesn't need to not be.
>It does not add anything to an english translation because it means nothing to English speakers.
It doesn't mean anything to people who won't bother learning what any of it means, you mean. Which makes as much sense as saying a book full of big words should use smaller words because the big words won't mean anything to people who won't understand them. If you want to get the most out of something you need to invest a little into it.
>Any concept contained in an honorific can and should be conveyed in a way your audience can understand.
Please convey all of the information in the honorifics listed in in a way that is easily understood. Obviously we are talking about the honorifics themselves here and I shouldn't expect another retarded answer of "uh you don't need to because you can change the sentence".

>People already do naturally change the way they speak as they become more comfortable around the recipient.
Sure, but that isn't what's happening here. Dropping an honorific is not inherently changing the way the character speaks. You are presenting a change in characterisation that didn't actually happen.

This shit should be required reading.
Localizers are not supposed to be fucking writers.

Attached: localization.png (940x1242, 160K)

Just a BTW, old Yea Forums absolutely loved this game and thought this was hilarious.

>Why would a shy character who changes their choice of honorifics to someone else suddenly start speaking differently in general?
It doesn't change the entire way they speak, it changes how the person addresses that person and the familiarity of the conversation with that person. If you've befriended someone your choice of words is going to be less reserved than someone you only know on a surface level, this doesn't mean that you're interjecting into every single conversation and being outspoken. A shy character is still shy even if the word choice implies they're friendlier. You can use a nicer tone just to imply they're on better terms with a person even though you can word it matter-of-fact or bluntly at the same time.
>Your given examples are changing the meaning and adding new information that wasn't there.
>Do you not even realise you invented a new line of dialogue in this example?
Except the change in this instance does nothing to the grand scheme of anything. The only new choice of words is "They're full of life" to imply a more upbeat and open way of speaking to another person. This does not affect the character in any way because they are already implied to be upbeat and full of life, but it does affect the usage of -chan in this example which we are supplementing. It's not a great example but it's one I can quickly think of.
>Changing that to an overt insult to avoid using -kun would completely miss the point.
So for what purpose can't the character be passive-aggressive? In what way can't you write the character to insult the other one while remaining polite? Your example alone already has the character being incredibly sarcastic, the -kun at this point isn't even needed because it's already reflected in everything he's saying. We not only read but even see that he's being a smug dipshit, leaning over and going "Azazel" still gets the exact same message across.

so why is it ok to translate 私 俺 僕 拙者 all as "I?"

Dude you've already asked me this like 5 times, my answer isn't going to change.
None of the "information" contained in those honorifics is meaningful to an English speaker. It's just minute differences in familiarity and respect that will not resonate with an English audience.

Japanese is such a fucking inefficent language.

The Phoenicians learned thousands of years ago to ditch that shit for alphabets, Asians could never learn.

locilaze this wall of text because i aint reading all that shit

That wasn't me, but I'll go ahead and provide you context. Beelzebub and Azazel used to be buddies back in their demon-school days, at which point Beelzebub referred to Azazel as -kun. Beelzebub gets summoned to Azazel's office where Azazel has already been working and refers to Azazel as -kun like they used to, which makes Azazel fucking pissed because Azazel is his senior and deserves more respect (so Beelzebub should have referred to him as -san or -senpai, given his position). On the next job Azazel fucks up and Beelzebub shows himself to be more useful than Azazel, so Beelzebub then starts referring to Azazel as -kun again to insult him as payback for earlier.
This entire gag revolves around Japanese social hierarchy and honorifics to work, at best a localisation attempt would have to change it to something like "buddy" which would portray Beelzebub's initial attitude as more relaxed and friendly than it actually was, since he himself is a pompous noble. With honorifics this is all easily and simply conveyed, without honorifics you have a needlessly difficult job of trying to write around this because you refuse to just use the simplest and most efficient option.

Attached: yya2_007.png (812x1200, 426K)

My post never went through for some reason so here it is
>Thank you for admitting you were wrong and stupid, I shall admit this win with grace and dignity.

Honorifics are only needed because japanese can't emote or convey emotion. Everything honorifics do can be done with goos voice acting and direction.

>Any concept contained in an honorific can and should be conveyed in a way your audience can understand.
>But I will refuse to actually prove this and just insist it can but insist it doesn't need to be any time I am pressed on it.
Ok. Please adopt a trip or something so I can stop reading your stupid posts.
>None of the "information" contained in those honorifics is meaningful to an English speaker. It's just minute differences in familiarity and respect that will not resonate with an English audience.
You might have a point if this were an English work, but it isn't, it's a Japanese work about Japanese characters where those differences are actually important. We've been over this already.

Oh. so you need a pompous word for "buddy" or "pal"?
"Friend," or "Comrade," depending on just how pompous he is
That was not hard

>First part
see
>Except the change in this instance does nothing to the grand scheme of anything. The only new choice of words is "They're full of life" to imply a more upbeat and open way of speaking to another person.
Which is new dialogue that wasn't there. Come up with a better example if you want to actually argue this.
>third part
see
Imagine thinking this actually reflects the original dialogue and isn't a retarded choice.

A lot of the problems caused in translation here are because Japanese is more efficient at conveying information than English is though.

honorifics are baby shit
translate this

Attached: nobodyreadsthese.jpg (895x1400, 332K)

I don't get it.

Why don't you fuck off to japan if you love it so much

>it's a Japanese work about Japanese characters
Doesn't matter. You're making this relatable to English audiences.
In the event a character is overly familiar and another character mentions explicitly which overly familiar honorific they used, just go with any familiar title. Bro, buddy, dude, whatever makes sense for the character. That stuff happens in English, too.
For your one specific example where the character lists off 16 nicknames in quick succession, it literally doesn't matter what they are because the character himself says it doesn't matter what you call him. All that matters is showing he is okay with any nickname at any range of familiarity.

Stating the obvious that the language is more efficient at conveying information doesn't mean I actually think it's better.

you'd still need to explain the cultural significance of the honorifics to someone who isn't very familiar with Japanese culture

Oh look at you with your high context language,
You can spell the same sentence like 5 different ways, it's incredibly difficult and therefore inefficient.

>You're completely wrong just trust me haha I know everything there is to know about Japanese culture and their brains are comoletely different and superior to ours haha ADOPT THEIR CUSTOMS

there are tons of situations where characters hang up on keigo and all of them are translated normally. how many times have you seen a translated line where one character says "you don't have to be so polite" and then the other character continues talking exactly the same as before? this happens far more often than honorifics, yet weebs don't care because it wasn't covered in their japanese 101 class yet.

consider this scene where bell aska ais to dance. he starts saying boku but stops and changes to watashi. of course this isn't in the subtitles. why is no once screaming for pronouns to not be translated because they contain extra meaning?

Attached: [HorribleSubs] DanMachi S2 - 01 [720p].mkv_snapshot_18.36_[2019.07.26_23.12.28].jpg (1280x720, 82K)

>You're making this relatable to English audiences.
said who? if 桐生 一馬 wants to fight with his 兄貴 and it ends in 指詰め I want to see that, not "John Smith fights with his coworkers and it ends in one of them getting hurt"

>Doesn't matter. You're making this relatable to English audiences.
If you're localising it, yeah. Which I don't want to do.
>In the event a character is overly familiar and another character mentions explicitly which overly familiar honorific they used, just go with any familiar title. Bro, buddy, dude, whatever makes sense for the character. That stuff happens in English, too.
Refer to Doing this sort of shit is just asking to be fucked in the future any time the topic comes up, which is exactly what happened in the image where Commie removed honorifics and then couldn't figure out any way to make the conversation make sense when it came up. The only way to keep this shit consistent is to rewrite the actual dialogue and every time the topic comes up you need to make more rewrites to keep your rewrites consistent because you already made shit up for the last time it happened.
>For your one specific example where the character lists off 16 nicknames in quick succession, it literally doesn't matter what they are because the character himself says it doesn't matter what you call him. All that matters is showing he is okay with any nickname at any range of familiarity.
Why do you keep saying this? Do you just want me to keep saying you're missing the point?

Is it really a surprise that anons think that the people complaining about localizations want literal translations when there's always a bunch of people arguing for that in these threads?

You are abnormal
Do not consider yourself the target demographic for anything

Well Japanese only has like fifteen words so they have to be efficient. That's why there are only like three popular expressions in Japanese (Which are actually just two different sounding grunts and the phrase "It can't be helped."). They have to borrow everything else from English.

Or you expect the reader to show some initiative and look it up and learn for themselves something that will then remain useful across thousands of translations using the same terms. Or you add a note to the end of the release about it, which some groups do. In either case the reader only needs to learn this once, which is not a tall order.

Attached: wagahai.png (550x550, 33K)

In all seriousness, the comments about Japanese language being "dry" are legitimate. It's not a criticism of Japanese, mind you, it's just the way their language is built. English has an absolutely massive amount of synonyms. Most people who take literature courses, or even writing courses in general, are typically taught that using the same adjective or verb more than once in a page or so is bad, and using it more than once in a paragraph is unacceptable. Even though many people aren't taught this explicitly, and even if they are they probably won't remember it unless they go into a writing related field, it still is reflected in what we read. Over time in life we pick up on that pattern and it starts to feel odd.

Long story short: He is one of the children that one of the characters can have and his hair color depends on his mother (on who you pair his father with).

>You are abnormal
>Do not consider yourself the target demographic for anything
ok retard

LIKE
A
PUPPET
WHOSE
STRINGS
HAVE
BEEN
CUT

>guhhh translation is hard :(
yes, that's why some people get paid to do it.

>hy is no once screaming for pronouns to not be translated because they contain extra meaning?
Funny that you post this right before I reply with an example of a botched attempt at ignoring pronouns in The simple fact of the matter is that retaining honorifics does no damage to sentence structure or readability as it's simply appending them to other words or using them in place of a localised name, but pronouns require significantly more work to rewrite them into dialogue and are in general a greater impediment to sentence flow. This entire choice of translation vs localisation is one of flow and readability and pronouns are a greater cost to that. The simplest choice is to just note them in a written work or leave them to be heard in a voiced work.

>Why do you keep saying this?
I don't know because you apparently can't understand my point. I guess we're both too stupid to have this conversation.

Treehouse isn't translating anything, though.

It's LITERALLY what people are asking for. Look at all the comparison screenshots that say "Japanese Version" and then have English text, as if that text is somehow a literal translation of Japanese.

If you want Japanese just learn it, it's not as hard as Yea Forums and /jp/ tell you. Especially if you're just watching anime.

>English has an absolutely massive amount of synonyms.
I don't know why you think Japanese doesn't because the Japs fucking love their word play. The only reason you'd think Japanese writing is dry is if you spend most of your time reading shitty light novels which are the Japanese literary equivalent of an American high school class' English essays.

Three Houses script turned out okay. Nintendo no longer allows / trusts Treehouse to localize on their own after they literally cost Nintendo money by butchering Fates so fucking badly some of the DLC couldn't even be sold.

if kisama tachi think that honorifics don't affect readability but pronouns do it's only because temee are already used to them. ore-sama think that people would end up thinking of them the same way if subtitles started forcing them.

>so fucking badly some of the DLC couldn't even be sold.
was it centered around the petting or something? or did treehouse just think it was Too Problematic

>People are arguing about translations
>The answer to what a translation should be is right here
>No one reads it

I want off this world

lol OP you're a retard
languages work differently, if you want your moe writing intact then just fucking learn japanese already
Japanese has about the same amount of synonyms per word English does. It's just that content aimed at children and moeshit avoid using the language to its full extent as much as possible.
Part of the reason why gaijin struggle so much with the language is that they spend 3 years basically learning all the "common" words from a dictionary without ever really understanding how to actually read, nor how the language works.
If you've ever read some actual literature in Japanese (or alternatively just played highly pretentious, absurdly verbose chuunishit) you'd realize how extensive and dense the language actually is. And, in a way, how unironically both superior and more beautiful it is in comparison to germanic and romance tongues.

>Nintendo no longer allows / trusts Treehouse to localize on their own
That's clearly not true, considering they're still butchering Splatoon 2.

>kisama tachi
>temee

I Read it and agree with it, I just didn't reply to it because it'd achieve nothing in the argument. The retards would continue to be retarded and nothing would change.

>Or you expect the reader to show some initiative and look it up and learn for themselves
This logic is exactly why TV-Nihon and early scanlations are as shit as they are. Where do you draw your line in the sand. Why not leave all the various personal words like "ore", "watashi", and "boku" alone? They all signify different meanings than just "I". Why not leave "nakama" as it is when it can mean more than just "friends" as we saw with the One Piece situation? Why not leave "henshin" alone when it's a culturally significant word compared to "transform"? What is your line? Because you can use TL notes, appendixes, or various other means to do exactly what you are saying.
Outside study should never be required to understand something (and don't go into semantics like having to study from cultural osmosis or school, you know that's not what I mean). It's like telling someone they need to go read a book to understand the nuances of a certain movie. Do I need to read It to watch the movie? Do I need to read LotR to understand all the various terms in the movies?

english has a lot of synonyms because it's a mongrelized mutt language. you can have a latin word, an anglo saxon word, and a norman french word all for the same thing.

It is a good game.

It's not that fucking hard. Just translate the lines as faithfully as possible. Don't try and make a new character on the framework of the original, and if you have to change things due to language error, do it as sparingly as possible (I.E. making sure sentences are grammatically correct, or translating honorifics to their closest equivalent for the situation)

yes that's the joke. everyone laughed at tv-n subs because they were retarded even though they were applying the exact same arguments people use for honorifics. if you can excuse translating every other aspect of keigo there's no reason not to excuse translating honorifics.

I agree with the image you posted, but the guy you quoted is an idiot
Localization is writing. The example that translator gave was rewriting, however small it was. At the end of the day, localizers should strive to rewrite as little as possible, but they have to rewrite many things in order for the original themes to resonate with a new audience.

the image HE posted, sorry

And a shitty localization.

Japanese has a lot of homonyms, hence the constant punning. I don't think it's dry, but it uses a lot of set phrases and can come off as repetitive because so much is just in context desu.

Attached: C961cQeV0AAeesG.jpg large.jpg (779x599, 90K)

ah yes
the usual braindead weeb eop argument
"just do it as faithfully as possible bro just like leave honorifics or translate them as close as possible, actual dialogue, rhyme and flow be damned haha"
that's not how languages work you fucking retard
you're as bad as the dumbass SJWs at treehouse rewriting everything for le epic points
here's a redpill for you
if you want the original script, learn the source language
every translation is a rewrite, and every rewrite is in turn nothing more than fucking fanfiction, no matter how close to the source material it tries to be
translation is not a science and there's no right answer to translating one thing, only an approximation depending on the output language
so yeah maybe stop being a little bitch and learn japanese クソオタめ

Mr is the localization. -san doesn't have a translation.

>Why not leave all the various personal words like "ore", "watashi", and "boku" alone?
see
>Why not leave "nakama" as it is when it can mean more than just "friends" as we saw with the One Piece situation?
Because "comrade" is a perfectly acceptable translation.
>Why not leave "henshin" alone when it's a culturally significant word compared to "transform"?
Because it isn't culturally significant.
>What is your line?
Words without English equivalents that contain information that is easily understood without excessive cost to the sentence structure. There is no reason not to translate basic words with accepted meanings like "henshin", and not even TV-Nihon does this anymore. Basically all of this has already been covered in my other posts.
>Outside study should never be required to understand something. It's like telling someone they need to go read a book to understand the nuances of a certain movie.
Really? What a bizarre stance to take. You need to know plenty of things to understand other media. You need to see the original movie to understand a prequel. You need to know about World War 2 to understand Schindler's List. You need to know a little about the internet and security if you're going to watch Citizenfour, a documentary about Snowden's information leaks.
Hell, you need to know any of the words used in a book to read it. Or what, is a book bad because it doesn't have a dictionary of all the words used at the end of it? Of course not, right? There's no unreasonable expectation in looking up a word you don't know that you come across in a text. Implying otherwise is absurd.

>everyone laughed at tv-n subs because they were retarded even though they were applying the exact same arguments people use for honorifics.
Not a single person in this thread is using any such arguments.

Japanese has plenty of synonyms too, not just homonyms. A relevant anecdote here is a story I've heard from a Japanese person about how they think Japanese people are quiet and reserved because they find it difficult to express themselves because there are so many synonyms of a word to choose from that they find it hard to think of which one would be the most appropriate to use on the spot.

>rhyme and flow be damned
Literally no one ever argues or ever has argued "just replace the kanji with words and make no attempt to render it readable in English", and yet for some reason localisationfags always pretend this is a real argument in every thread.

Yeah, that's right, I struggle in social situations because I'm TOO SMART!
Sounds like maximum cope.

>if you want the original script, learn the source language
>every translation is a rewrite, and every rewrite is in turn nothing more than fucking fanfiction, no matter how close to the source material it tries to be
This. The only way to translate is to try and understand what one person means when they speak to another and then write something that gives a similar understanding to a listener in another language. The fact that this holds for ANY language is totally lost on monolingual weeaboos who think that Japanese is some sort of mystical language that must be translated as literally as possible to be "faithful" though.

A smart person would know which words to use though. I don't think you thought this through.

>Talks about other languages
>Ignores that translations from languages other than Japanese frequently include origin terminology and translation notes because it's commonly accepted that these are necessary for full understanding and thus proper translation
For some reason it's only Japanese where it's commonly accepted that the original script should be completely disrespected and all aspects of Japanese culture should be scrubbed as thoroughly as possible.

I miss AIM

Sounds believable. What language has like fifteen different words, all with different connotations, just for the word "I"? Shit's insane.

I suppose. Many people consider it smart to just know a lot of words, too.
Either way, my point is that that's obviously not the reason.

thats how they believe the characters should come out
anime is big on exaggerated reactions
but a lot of the time there is no perfect way to translate that

What's with this common theme of turning people from Osaka into Southerners? Legit question I don't get it

Fates wasn't the only game where Treehouse decided to say fuck it to the original script and shove in memes where they don't belong.

What is this gay weeabo translation?

Let's not even pretend that Fates was in any way an attempt to convey the original characterisation in any form.

Attached: treehouse5.png (1418x1238, 232K)

just don't use it then. You only need to use pronouns when it needs to be emphasized who you're talking about, which is not the default case. If you say WATASHI/etc. every time you say something about yourself it sounds weird as hell anyway.

>see
But that's just dodging the question. Honorifics easily impede flow just as much as any other Japanese term left on its own. You could just as easily make the same exact argument for learning the difference between the various personal pronouns. -san and boku both stick out like a sore thumb and impact readability and flow.
>Because "comrade" is a perfectly acceptable translation.
Even though "comrade" doesn't imply friendship. Sure, it implies a commonality but "nakama" in this instance could imply friendship, it could imply a working relationship, or it could imply just someone in your own group.
>There is no reason not to translate basic words with accepted meanings like "henshin"
Fair enough but at the same time the same argument could be made with honorifics. We already have accepted usages for -san, -chan is usually turned into a nickname or a playful usage of the name, -kun is usually treated as a more serious or grown up term, etc.
>There's no unreasonable expectation in looking up a word you don't know that you come across in a text.
The difference here is this is an entire cultural exchange you have to learn. It's not as simple as learning the general meaning, the nuance has to be learned, the usage in multiple ways has to be learned, the usage in a joking way has to be learned, you have to learn Japanese social conduct, and so on. You are essentially learning a small part of another culture which requires some study instead of just another word. The game itself should be self-contained, it should not require you to spend the next hour understanding how Japanese social conduct is handled so that someone didn't need to do work to get the meaning of an honorific across. This is especially jarring for people trying to get into the Japanese entertainment industry be it books, shows, or games. This alone can make or break the experience for a person outside looking in.

why even bother responding if you didn't actually read the post.

Why'd I get like, three replies to this back to back to back.

I dunno just explain the Osaka Texas shit

I don't think you get the point. I don't think you ever will.
Let me give you an example, Catherine is almost an entirely different experience depending on the language you play it on. A lot of the dialogue's tone, thematic expressions and characterization are outright fucking lost within the language barrier, and its localization is still one of the best references you can have in recent memory.
Languages are inherently different. From casual expressions to verbal cultural barriers, a lot of it is outright fucking incompatible with foreign languages, and not just because 90% of the audience are complete normies that don't even know what "sama" is supposed to refer to.

what gets changed in the splatoon localization?

literally half the thread has been people arguing that you can't translate honorifics because they have special meaning

it's retarded because the stereotype of osakans is good at comedy and good at money. osaka dialect should be translated as jewy new yorkers. the hick accent is tohoku accent.

Claude, Alice and Stephanie

dumb analogy. espionage doesn't need to be fun to read.

I thought Kansai was the Southern accent?

A translator's job shouldn't be to make the dialog "fun." That's the writer's job. The translator should be attempting to convey that fun (or lack thereof) into a new language.

>Honorifics easily impede flow just as much as any other Japanese term left on its own.
What kind of retarded argument is this? "I put on the kimono" is somehow impeding flow compared to "I put on the robe"? Please, think before you write.
>-san and boku both stick out like a sore thumb and impact readability and flow.
This is debatable and I disagree. But you miss the point that a suffix to an existing proper noun is nowhere near the impediment to flow that is replacing pronouns with Japanese ones, particularly if your intent is to preserve Japanese sentence structure, which is beyond what I desire to do.
>Even though "comrade" doesn't imply friendship.
I have never heard anyone say this before. Comrade is regularly used to denote friends with a common goal or taste.
>Sure, it implies a commonality but "nakama" in this instance could imply friendship, it could imply a working relationship, or it could imply just someone in your own group.
I have never heard "nakama" used in a work context. Feel free to provide an example. Comrade is suitable for the other two.
>Fair enough but at the same time the same argument could be made with honorifics. We already have accepted usages for -san, -chan is usually turned into a nickname or a playful usage of the name, -kun is usually treated as a more serious or grown up term, etc.
Provide adequate English equivalents for all the honorifics present in that previously discussed image that are also suitable for all situations and then you have a basis for that. Until then, no, you cannot make the same argument for honorifics. The biggest contention with "henshin" is that sometimes it would be more adequately translated as "transformation" than "transform", which is a minute difference.

> You are essentially learning a small part of another culture which requires some study instead of just another word.
This requires minimal time and processing power as most of this is intuitive after you learn the basic meaning. I don't understand you acting like learning is a bad thing.
>The game itself should be self-contained, it should not require you to spend the next hour understanding how Japanese social conduct is handled so that someone didn't need to do work to get the meaning of an honorific across.
Learning the meaning will not require such time, but it is also something that as previously stated needs to be learnt only once. You also have it backwards, it is not retained to avoid getting the meaning across, it is retained specifically so that the meaning isn't lost.
>This is especially jarring for people trying to get into the Japanese entertainment industry be it books, shows, or games. This alone can make or break the experience for a person outside looking in.
Fuck them, they don't deserve to be pandered to.

>the hick accent is tohoku accent.
>tfw started learning japanese in tohoku sendai
imagine meeting a foreigner and they sound like a texan with a german accent ugh

Attached: 1546230667891.jpg (318x313, 11K)

Do you want to provide any actual examples?

>literally half the thread has been people arguing that you can't translate honorifics because they have special meaning
Which has nothing to do with old TV-Nihon's practice of not translating things that aren't honorifics.

kansai is the second most populated part of japan. the redneck farmers all live in the north. hokkaido is like japanese texas with snow.

>I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE TERM "LOCALIZATION" MEANS, PLEASE RAPE MY FACE

Sank yuu

Yes a translator's job is to be accurate to the original script. When it's passed to the editor, they decide whether the translation should be edited to flow better in English, or to spice up a mundane sentence.

But the truth is, nobody here knows what the fuck goes in in localization, and only get pissy because they don't like the changes in the English version, when the Japanese version is available to play. But you're too lazy to learn Japanese and experience the unmolested version.

I can't believe you would deny me my opportunity to obnoxiously insert ore-sama into every sentence possible like this.

Localization means contradicting the original script and replacing it with your own material?

tv-n didn't translated pronouns for the same reason people argue not to translate honorifics. are you literally retarded?

Even if you can speak Japanese I don't know why you wouldn't be annoyed at a bad translation/localization. Shit work is shit work, even if you can pull a "I got mine."

TV-Nihon's reasoning was more extreme, eg "meaning must be retained at all cost", while thinking that there was anything lost in leaving "o-baka-san-tachi" as is instead of translating it as "you fools", which no one actually agrees with and which no one in these threads ever argues for because everyone that isn't old TV-Nihon (and not new TV-Nihon) understands there is a line between what is lost in translation and what the cost of readability is.

This game alone made me skeptic of any future fire emblem game's localization.

In Splatoon 1, Callie and Marie's character traits were heavily exaggerated, and memes were regularly inserted into the script. Splatfests, which have a more celebratory tone, became overly competitive compared to the Japanese version. Octavio was completely changed, though I think this change was positive because he honestly was dry as chalk in the original.
In Splatoon 2, Pearl and Marina become completely different characters. Marina in particular is especially notable, because in the Japanese version, she's a shy but excitable girl who looks up to Pearl and calls her senpai, and often sings her praises. The localization changed Marina into a sassy asshole who regularly insulted Pearl at nearly every opportunity; this conflicted with her character so badly that Marina's facial expressions oftentimes didn't even match her English dialogue. They eventually had to go back and retcon some of these lines to be less harsh, and add in new lines for the Octo Expansion DLC to say that Marina's behavior on the news show ingame is an act; something not present in the original.
There's also more forced memes, general dumbing down of dialogue, and a lot of omitted information. And dumb additions by the localization; for instance, Treehouse added something in Splatoon 2 called "Splatfest Law", which says that if a side wins the Splatfest, it becomes illegal to say the losing side is better than the winning side. Which is completely absent in the original. Another example of a dumb change is a line in the singleplayer; in the original, Marie tells your player character that they look just as good as Agent 3, the player character from the first game. In the localization, for some reason Marie says that Agent 3 smells and has bad hygiene. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.
This isn't an exhaustive list of everything but eventually I'll try to make one like that Fates album.

Look at the number of digits he's holding up in sequence.
The phrase he's saying also translates to the digits he's holding up.

TL:DR;
A localizer's job is to LOCALIZE. Meaning to make a given block of text as clear to someone reading the translated text as a native reader reading the native text, while preserving as much of the original meaning as possible.

Sometimes that means changing specific words around or re-contextualizing a pun, but that should never mean completely re-writing anything. The original author wrote that in a specific way for a reason, and a localizer's job is to preserve that meaning from one language to the next, even if the reason why is not explicitly clear.

TL;DR for the TL;DR:
Shit often has to change, and that's okay, but not too much shit.

the real redpill is that all translation is localization

>(君はゼルダ姫の笑顔を)もう一度この目でみたい
It's not first-person. Perhaps you should reconsider how much Japanese you actually know.

You can be annoyed at a inaccurate translation, but I would be more upset when it just sounds like shit in English, rather than its lack of parity with the Japanese script.

See: Ys 8 and its botch job.

Attached: 55.jpg (802x457, 52K)

I can't see it, what are the readings meant to be for this?

I still don't get it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with smoothing out a translation. "Archeozoic Crater" or whatever would work just as well. It's when you go full Treehouse that makes me wanna say "fuck you" to these people.

Come on user. 4 _ 0?

Could you elaborate on that?

U?

>Another example of a dumb change is a line in the singleplayer; in the original, Marie tells your player character that they look just as good as Agent 3, the player character from the first game. In the localization, for some reason Marie says that Agent 3 smells and has bad hygiene. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.
Reminds me of Dragalia Lost where 8-4 took a scene where Ranzal apologises for being rude and says he's going to step outside and changed it to Ranzal loudly farting, not apologising, and saying he's going to bed.

The best thing about that is that the Japanese version already used a perfectly fine English translation for that

Between yon / shi for 4, ni / futa for 2, and rei / zero for 0, I can't find any combination that reads like you describe. Hence why I asked if it was using some other readings.

>"I put on the kimono" is somehow impeding flow compared to "I put on the robe"?
"Kimono" and "sushi" are both part of the English lexicon, so no, they're not. But putting something like "Let's go out to drink at the izakaya" compared to "Let's go out to drink at the pub" would easily break flow. I agree that a suffix isn't as egregious, but you're literally sticking foreign terms into something without any sort of explanation and an expectation that someone already knows them. You're basically having something stick out in the middle of everything you say, but now you've turned it into something very important due to you not translating it.
>Comrade is regularly used to denote friends with a common goal or taste.
Comrade, again, does not entirely imply friendship though it can, it's more about mutual trust. If you went to the USSR and called someone you met on the streets your comrade that doesn't mean he's your friend, it just means he's got some level of respect for you because of his assumed belief that you love your country/political belief.
>that are also suitable for all situations
Nothing is suitable for all situations when it comes to translating from Japanese, context determines how you will translate the honorific. The honorifics already have their own designated meanings and usages, it's the translator's job to work that into sentences instead of just leaving half a sentence untranslated. Plus, you also seem to be completely at odds with rewriting sentences when you do that in translation regardless, otherwise everything would be incredibly stilted. Rewriting doesn't mean you need to add new information, you can still get exactly what is said across by saying it in a different way. If you were to write "I hate how my co-worker keeps forgetting his food." as "My co-worker forgot his food again, I'm getting sick of it." what exactly have you lost? Every single nuance of the event and structure is still there. Liberties have to be taken.

>君はゼルダ姫の笑顔を
what
leaving the fact that's outright grammatically incorrect aside the full sentence in that image is "彼女の笑顔をもう一度この目で見たい"
nothing really implies the dialogue is in either first or third person

user, the entire problem with his example is that the original Japanese was this.

Attached: what the fuck is webp.jpg (1200x675, 255K)

There was another scan of it that actually broke down the "pun". Probably was more accurate.

Is this supposed to be "Shi (4)" "Tsu (2 but in english)" "Rei (0)"?
t. barely knows japanese

>I don't understand you acting like learning is a bad thing.
There is nothing wrong with learning, you're missing the forest for the trees here, the point is that you are forcing someone to learn a massive part of someone's culture to simply read a throwaway line in a game. Instead of working the meaning of that into the sentence itself you are simply leaving it as-is and going "Go look this up and understand all the nuances of it before you play this again." Yeah, I'm pretty sure we all know what they mean considering we're here, that doesn't mean it should be acceptable to leave shit like "Matt-san, I can't believe Kamara-chan decided Billy-kun should break the pot. It has Karen-tan in a tizzy now!" without even making an attempt to translate.
>Fuck them, they don't deserve to be pandered to.
Nice job killing an enormous audience for no reason.

I'm saying is that it's second person.
It's narrated text, and it's not grammatically incorrect.

another round of bad fire emblem localization?
fire emblem imgur.com/gallery/X2w49
nisa bad translations imgur.com/a/g6f8y
Kill Doerr for what that faggot did to nep and other games
boards.fireden.net/v/search/image/QgxSZydxdLa1Aweb04ue2g/

Attached: file.png (650x726, 902K)

>"Kimono" and "sushi" are both part of the English lexicon
I wonder how that happened. Could it be because they're Japanese terms without English equivalents that were left as such in translations because the translators knew meaning would be lost by trying to localise them?
>But putting something like "Let's go out to drink at the izakaya" compared to "Let's go out to drink at the pub" would easily break flow.
That's literally exactly the same as the kimono and sushi examples except that izakaya isn't as well known. Come on.
>but you're literally sticking foreign terms into something without any sort of explanation and an expectation that someone already knows them.
If I'm translating Japanese media that is being made available to people who search it out over the internet rather than being broadcast at prime time on a major TV network I can probably assume that they know what they're dealing with.
>If you went to the USSR and called someone you met on the streets your comrade that doesn't mean he's your friend
I don't know why you thought that noting that the word has a different meaning in a different culture where the word is used differently was helpful. We're not translating things for Russia here.
>Nothing is suitable for all situations when it comes to translating from Japanese
Yes, this is true to an extent, as noted by the henshin example. But this is not true for ANYTHING as much as it's true for honorifics, hence why they should be left alone. If you want to localise them you are constantly writing around them, which as mentioned earlier in the thread means making constant rewrites to try and represent them when you could convey the same information more quickly and cleanly by retaining them.
>Liberties have to be taken.
Your given examples are extremely benign and could not even be considered rewrites. This does not apply to the vast majority of localisation nor to how much you would need to rewrite to get around the lack of honorifics.

>entirely removed a high tier trap x tomboy relationship and turned it into some other dumb bullshit
Words cannot express my rage for these sins against all that is good and right in this world.

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>OP’s pic
Please don’t let that happen to Three Houses

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People who do localizations can't even speak Japanese most of the time. They just throw the scripts into google translate and rewrite the story based on what google translate spits out

>the point is that you are forcing someone to learn a massive part of someone's culture to simply read a throwaway line in a game.
It's not one line though. You're getting them to learn something that will help them every time they come across the same thing in the future, which will happen regularly because they are dealing with a core aspect of Japanese culture that comes up all the time. Again, this is even less work than remembering the details of any one work's own setting.
> that doesn't mean it should be acceptable to leave shit like "Matt-san, I can't believe Kamara-chan decided Billy-kun should break the pot. It has Karen-tan in a tizzy now!" without even making an attempt to translate.
Why not? You're not even complaining about anything here except for the honorifics being preserved, which are themselves entirely different to the sentences here. What would you want it to be exactly? "Mr Matt, I can't believe li'l Kamara decided my mate Billy should break the pot. It has Kazzyzaz in a tizznizzle now!"?

Three Houses actually has a faithful translation without so much as a single name change. I'm still waiting for people to complain about how dry and lifeless it is because it doesn't have any memes.

>character named harold
>has a big H belt buckle
>for some reason treehouse changed his name to arthur
literally why

Attached: Arthur_Heroes.png (505x870, 272K)

I'm sure we'll get a Kotaku article, like with Persona 5.

This is a sponsored post

>Everyone complains about Persona 5 being "too literal" because it's poorly edited
>It isn't even literal, it's liberal as fuck

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>has a big H belt buckle

Holy fuck. The entire Fates localization really was a disaster.

what was wrong with tv-n subs? oira think that onushi aren't thinking clearly.

Just leave text untanslated and supply translated version in notes. If Leo Tolstoy can do that so can we.

Marina got it the worst out of anyone there. Octavio's an improvement even if he bares no resemblance to his Japanese counterpart, Callie and Marie are the same most of the time until the Brain trust at treehouse decide to overexaggerate for splatfests and people start thinking they hate each other, and Pearl's at least close-ish. They also work some lore fuckups into the English script like insisting octopi are extinct to avoid the whole "Inklings eat squids, Octolings eat octopi" issue which is outright canon in the japanese, which was such a badly worded line people thought Pearl meant Octarians were beleved to be extinct. And the Squid Sisters' love of French Fries is completely gone, the weirdest change I've seen in a localisation. At least Brock's jelly donuts had a reason, even if it was a retarded one.

>because the translators knew meaning would be lost by trying to localise them?
Except "Kimono" is just a culturally specific type of robe style and "Sushi" is "raw fish on rice" which is why we absorbed those terms. They're very specific. Honorificis are not that specific, they are affixes that imply a certain tone to be taken. Culturally important, sure, but you can imply their general context through careful sentence structure and translation. Who gives a shit if this causes more work for the translator? It's their job. Of course it's going to cause some rewrites, but rewrites don't mean you need to add flavor text or a bunch more jokes. Rewording sentences doesn't mean you're not getting the exact sentence here. You're not going from "Die creature" to "Die cis-scum teehee" here, you're going to "You will die now, creature". The first example is direct, the third example is more posh.
>I can probably assume that they know what they're dealing with.
This is no excuse for not properly translating something.

>What would you want it to be exactly?
"Matt, I can't believe Kam decided Bill should break the pot. It's got Karen in a tizzy now."
We don't need to use Mr. at all for -san because all we're doing with -san is implying a general respect for the guy. If Matt was already known to be someone slightly more important then yeah, use Mr. because in that instance it implies a more respected tone. In this example -chan would just be a nickname because the sentence is so short and has no context. Billy-kun lops off the y because y implies a more child-like name while Bill keeps the -kun meaning easily even in such a context. In a case where you can't do this just have the characters speak of him more respectfully. -tan is such a rare term and just implies boyishness, and in this example it means literally nothing without more sentences to work with.
You are the type of person who would complain about "Kazzy" as the translation for "Kiryu-chan".

>character has kansai dialect or something
>translated version has character speak in really obnoxious exaggerated southern drawl
Every fucking time

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Honorifics are literally an informal/conversational derivative of titles

>Except "Kimono" is just a culturally specific type of robe style
And izakaya is a culturally specific type of Japanese eatery. Remind me again why leaving that alone isn't acceptable?
>Honorificis are not that specific
Which is exactly why they're difficult to translate, yes.
>but you can imply their general context through careful sentence structure and translation.
Please refer back to the image in >Who gives a shit if this causes more work for the translator?
No one? That's never been the point.
>Of course it's going to cause some rewrites, but rewrites don't mean you need to add flavor text or a bunch more jokes.
It does however create problems when you need to keep those rewrites consistent. See >You're not going from "Die creature" to "Die cis-scum teehee" here, you're going to "You will die now, creature".
Again, this is benign and not worth complaining about but it's also not what localisers do, because localisers change it to the second example while arguing the third example would be unreadable literal bullshit.
> Billy-kun lops off the y because y implies a more child-like name
Or that his name is William, but that's reading too much, I'm sure.
>while Bill keeps the -kun meaning easily even in such a context.
How?
>-tan is such a rare term and just implies boyishness
-tan doesn't imply boyishness, what the fuck?
>You are the type of person who would complain about "Kazzy" as the translation for "Kiryu-chan".
Yeah, absolutely, especially since in one single cutscene in Yakuza 3 Majima says "Kiryu-chan" and it's translated separately as "Kazzy", "Kiryu", and "Kazuma" in different instances. But also because refer back to where I talk about using rewrites to replace honorifics with nicknames and this then requiring more rewrites down the line when the subject comes up again.

XSEED of all companies had Kevin speak like he was from Boston instead.

And someone else from Scotland?

Boston is the most accurate transition of the kansei dialect. The center of the western world is New York, and the nearby large city with a strange accent is Boston. It translates perfectly to Tokyo and Osaka.

>try reading manga
>for some reason one of the main characters has an Southern American accent despite the entire series taking place in Japan
This shit makes zero sense to me at all

boston should be kyoto dialect like fatlus used for the the robot in p4u

There's a clear difference between translating intent and localizing.
Honorifics have no place in English, they don't get the desired dialog across, are unnecesary and when really required can simply be replaced by Title.
Localization is going further, rather than doing direct translation or translating and adapting to suit the language it's reimagining the dialog to suit the culture or even an entirely different audience.

>Remind me again why leaving that alone isn't acceptable?
Because it's not in the English lexicon and sticks out like a sore thumb. A pub already implies you can eat food there. A kimono is a robe, sure, but it's a very specific type of robe. A Japanese pub may be a bit different than an Irish pub but that doesn't mean it's not still serving food and drinks whereas a kimono has specific patterns and a specific design style gone into creating it.
>Please refer back to the image
Naruto's situation can be done simply by making him written as distant to everyone but confiding in other characters. He's already constantly shown as angry and hates people but confides in Kakashi, likes Sakura, alongside having friends later on. Kakashi's situation can easily be done by having him speak freely with his students while maintaining a respectful tone with his superiors. Sakura is already handled, she treats Naruto like shit while acts like a regular girl to everyone else, and when she realizes she likes him she starts acting much more like a regular girl around him. Sai is already shown wanting to learn how to act human and get to know people when he's emotionally untrained. You can easily have him learning about nicknames and social rapport, etc. This guy acts like the manga itself doesn't already do exactly this even without honorifics in them simply through what we're shown.
>It does however create problems when you need to keep those rewrites consistent.
Sure, Go-Buster Oh and Go-Buster King is a perfect example, but in the case of a video game you don't need to keep this consistent because you already have the material right there to know of such trappings. In sequels this could crop up, I agree, and if they specifically do honorific jokes you're at their mercy, that would have to be a full on rewrite with the developer's permission at that point.
>while arguing the third example would be unreadable literal bullshit
and that's what you should be bitching about.

Japanese isn't inefficient because of Kanji, it's inefficient because of the amount of syllables. Mandarin is considered a very efficient language.

>Ersa

>How?
-kun implied a more mature type of person, at least in this very short context, but since we don't know the speaker it could easily be someone older speaking about someone younger. Context is key here, but it would still work at the same time if an older person was speaking to a younger person, thus Billy-kun would be fine in that respect.
>-tan doesn't imply boyishness, what the fuck?
>Tan (たん) is an even more cute or affectionate variant of -chan
Well shit, here I've been thinking it was for all these years.
>and this then requiring more rewrites down the line when the subject comes up again.
Thankfully it hasn't come to that in that series at least. The only time honorifics have propped up that would require a full rewrite was in one of the side missions but that's about it. Every other time they could be replaced or reworded without any issue whatsoever. We already know 3 was a mess with a half-assed translation, that doesn't make Kazzy any less viable considering Majima has never deviated from it or brought attention to it.

I know I'm not arguing my point well but I hope you get what the hell I'm talking about. Yes, there are issues that can crop up, and that's the translator's job to figure out how to plan for if it does happen. They are paid to translate, not to leave stuff from the language in randomly because they found it too difficult to carry over. There are very few situations where it's a detriment to not translate the intent of those honorifics, general character building alone already gets a lot of that across, and if they throw in a new honorific or use it in a certain way that can be accounted for if they expect it might be a possibility.

>Because it's not in the English lexicon
Kimono and sushi are only in the English lexicon because translators realised there weren't English equivalents for them and thus chose to retain them to preserve their meaning. How is any word expected to enter the English lexicon if you're not allowed to use it because it's foreign?
>a kimono has specific patterns and a specific design style gone into creating it.
A kimono doesn't have specific patterns at all though.
>A kimono is a robe, sure, but it's a very specific type of robe.
Ok, now what about a furisode? What would you do with this word if it came up? It refers to a type of kimono which has elongated sleeves designed to create a flowing look in motion. Would you leave it alone because it's a Japanese cultural item with no English equivalent? Would you do like Funimation did in their subtitles of Seiren and "localise" it into "kimono" because that's more familiar to westerners, even though it's not the same thing? Or would you scrub it entirely because it's not in the English lexicon?
>Naruto's situation can be done simply by making him written as distant to everyone but confiding in other characters.
>Kakashi's situation can easily be done by...
>Sakura is already handled, she treats Naruto like shit while acts like a regular girl to everyone else, and...
You have missed the primary point in that image which specified that you can convey this over time through dialogue but honorifics make all that information obvious immediately.
>but in the case of a video game you don't need to keep this consistent because you already have the material right there to know of such trappings
Assuming the entire work is gone over by the translator before they start any work, but that's usually not the case in professional localisation.
>and that's what you should be bitching about.
That's what everyone is bitching about. But it's all a symptom of the localisation mentality. Fates is just the logical end point of it.

No, please don't ruin my strawman.

This is better than ninety nine percent of shit since I can at least pick up on what they're trying to say.

>FFVII's localization
>high quality
lol

>-kun implied a more mature type of person
Dude, what? -kun doesn't imply maturity, except perhaps on the part of the speaker. I don't actually understand anything of what you're saying about Billy here.
> We already know 3 was a mess with a half-assed translation, that doesn't make Kazzy any less viable considering Majima has never deviated from it or brought attention to it.
What? I just pointed out that they fucked it up three times all within the same conversation in 3. God knows how badly they've handled the honorifics elsewhere, one example I recall from 0 which is after the translations were attempted to be fixed was Kiryu referring to Kazama as "oyaji" being changed into "Kazama-san".
>They are paid to translate, not to leave stuff from the language in randomly because they found it too difficult to carry over.
If you leave out words because you think they're too foreign to understand and replace them with alternatives that don't carry the same meaning or nuance, you are failing at translating. Literally the only reason not to retain honorifics is "duh it's like hard to learn and remember and stuff" from people who refuse to invest in it, for everyone else it's a boon because you're not wasting time making needless rewrites to poorly convey the same information that you needlessly stripped out.

>ITT

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>ITT

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>Went to Japan last month
>At the fushimi inari shrine there was a huge obese white guy with orange hair in a ponytail wearing a kimono
I immediately thought of Ken-sama and it took all of my willpower to stop myself from bursting out in laughter among the crowds.

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>FF7 translation
>good

Let me guess, you only remember Barrett's funny ebonics? FF7 had a rushed shitty translation. If you've got a few hours to spare (and i know you do since you're on Yea Forums) you can watch Tim Rogers go over every critical line in FF7 and point out how bad it is.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZefYEaNUJ7w

sheeeeiiiiit wrong thread

Not in a world where Funimation’s Shin Chan exists

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>You damn well know that the don't want literal translations
Not him but have you seen these threads? It's all nothing but ironic weebs crying about wanting literal translations

there was a scene in the horizon anime where the ninja character thought he would lose to the samurai character because he said jibun de gozaru but she said sessha de gozaru. how do you translate that? checkmate atheists.

>they still used the original text as a base and made changes from there
SLAPPYFACE!

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Can we please pretend Fates never happened? Those were dark times for us Nintendies.

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How do you translate "de gozaru" in the first place? Fucking ninjas.

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>ironic weebs
literally all of the most popular ironic seen shit like Neptunia are the opposite of literal translations

You totally missed the point. The translation was good BECAUSE it was liberal. No one would care about the game today if it wasn't for FF7 having a more natural tone from the other JRPG trash coming out at the time. Compare it to Breath of Fire III or Grandia, which were also released in 1997. Stilted, soulless schlock.

>mk2 and Victory were so bad people made retranslation patches for them

>you can change the script drastically while still being faithful
That's the opposite of being faithful. Leave the doge memes at the door and do your fucking job, not ruining something because you think your reddit fanfiction sounds better.

>I'd sperg out.
i believe this

>I want a one to one translation.
>What do you mean keep honorifics in? They just don't sound "right" and sound weird not in Japanese.
Lmao. You fags have no clue what you want.
If you want to play a japanese game where nothing is changed, then learn Japanese you lazy ass faggots.

>The translation was good
>Compare it to Breath of Fire III or Grandia, which were also released in 1997. Stilted, soulless schlock.
Nigger what? Grandia reads a million times better.

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>xenoblade 2 changes byakko, suzaku, and seiryu but leaves genbu for some reason
>changes latin names to made up words
has it really gotten better?

Who are you quoting? Everyone who wants an actually accurate translation wants honorifics.

They didn't cover up any boobs so everyone pretends Xenoblade 2 is perfectly fine.

>FFVII
>natural tone
"This guy are sick" aside, it's full of stilted dialogue and ooc bullshit. FFVII was popular because it was a heavily marketed game with pretty prerendered backgrounds and a guy with a big sword. Most of its audience at the time probably couldn't tell you what localization even meant.

XB2's localization is one of the reasons I didn't buy it. Didn't they literally change an entire characters' dialogue to fucking barks? Ignoring the fact that they changed basically every proper noun.

>even though it's not the same thing?
A kimono has way more differences when you speak about a robe than a furisode does when speaking about a kimono. Even so, you could just make it say "a furisode kimono" despite the Japanese text not saying it. Chances are they explain it anyway since they're namedropping it, but if they assume you know it it's not like you need to know more than "kimono" because you already got the gist of it. It describes a type of kimono and when you see it you will know what it really is.
>but honorifics make all that information obvious immediately.
The honorifics add to character, sure, but you still need to characterize that character anyway. If your very first line from Naruto would be "Sakura-chan..." and in English you went "Sakura..." you'd still get the exact same thing from it. The -chan shows us, at most, he considers her someone close to him, but just saying "Sakura" already implies he already knows her at the very least, and that's just from saying a name. All you're gaining is a potential closer familiarity at best, and the visuals will imply that anyway.
>but that's usually not the case in professional localisation.
Which is something people should be bitching to them about to begin with. It shows they're half-assing everything and just doing everything as it comes to them.

>-kun doesn't imply maturity
>Although it may seem rude in workplaces, the suffix is also used by juniors when referring to seniors in both academic situations and workplaces, more typically when the two people are associated.
It's more for familiarity but it can.
>What?
I know you did, I'm just adding that "Kazzy" is appropriate and has never conflicted as a translation for "Kiryu-chan".
>Literally the only reason not to retain honorifics is
Or because it's not translation, it's half-assing your work. It's not translating something you can translate, it just takes effort.

>Didn't they literally change an entire characters' dialogue to fucking barks?
Not the entire character, but they changed several lines of dialogue in a conversation in order to sanitise what was originally a suggestive scene by changing it to lol so randum xD humour. Of course people will defend it by saying "dude now it implies animal roleplay, it's even more degenerate!".

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Why does this get a free pass again?

>Sakura isn't English, make her name Cherry Blossom
This is what you anti-honorifics sound like to me.

>grow up as a weeb
>think japanese and Japan to be noble and superior
>go to uni to learn japanese
>it's not like that at all
>their language is just very antiquate but they like it so they don't care
>silly population which culture just absorb the culture of the superpower of the moment
>it's boring as fuck
it's almost like the internet gives a completely different representation of reality

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True, but everyone here is too young to have watched that

if you were a real weeaboo you'd already know they're all weirdos because you listened to their talk shows

it's weird to think that most Japanese names "mean" something and aren't just Biblically derived.

I've called those exact things out plenty of times. One of the blades was also a flirty dyke that wanted a harem or something. Fates was in a league of its own though and fucking TMS is the runner-up. I still can't believe they called the Japanese VAs back in to revoice segments for the altered ENGLISH release. Had Tsubasa rerecord the line where she states her age because they aged her up. As if anyone playing the censored English release could understand the spoken language anyway.

That's just one scene as I recall. It was something about Poppy engaging maid mode or whatever the fuck because her creator is supposed to be a perverted retard but she "engages dog mode" or something instead. It's still a great game but if you're all about strictly no censorship on principal then I don't blame you for giving it a pass.

Listen, when it comes to America it's our property and we'll do whatever we want with it. If you can't handle the dialogue being completely rewritten so the citizens of the U S of A can enjoy it, then you should move to Japan.

let me guess, you loved 8-4's localisation of Xeno x

biblical names also mean something

hair color changes based on who's kid it is.

every character has a static kid and the only variable is hair color. it gets the hair color of the other character.
because muh dynamic kids or some shit.

>Chances are they explain it anyway since they're namedropping it
The chances of that aren't high at all, the japs all know what a furisode is. A bit off-topic but I'm amazed that Nintendo actually left it alone for the furisode girls in XY instead of localising it.
>but if they assume you know it it's not like you need to know more than "kimono" because you already got the gist of it.
This strikes me as a strange stance. In Seiren's case it wasn't particularly important, but I don't follow that assuming the viewer is familiar with something means it can't be important. Any time jap media brings up the "four heavenly kings" it's not going to mention that there are 5 of them because they assume the viewer already knows that, but it's still important to know that there'll be 5 and not 4 of them.
In any case your stance here is to change it to "kimono" for familiarity, right? What about all the weapons in this image? Just change all the swords to "katana" if they're named, even though they're used differently to a standard katana? Would you change a naginata to "spear"? What about the kamayari or su yari? Where do you draw the line on what should be simplified and what should be left as is? And how can anyone become more familiar with things if translations hide the names from them in an effort to be more familiar?
>The honorifics add to character, sure, but you still need to characterize that character anyway.
Sure, that's obvious. But it's two layers, and removing honorifics is removing a layer, like back before with the example of the shy girl changing her use of honorifics but not how she speaks.
> If your very first line from Naruto would be "Sakura-chan..." and in English you went "Sakura..." you'd still get the exact same thing from it.
No. Absolutely not. One of these has extra info, the other doesn't.
>All you're gaining is a potential closer familiarity at best, and the visuals will imply that anyway.
And what if it's a novel?

reminds me of how Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't allowed to dub himself in German for Terminator because he was considered to have a redneck accent.

user Japanese names in general are like that. You probably didn't know majority of Japanese names in games are puns.

because it isn't cringe treehouse

>I know you did, I'm just adding that "Kazzy" is appropriate and has never conflicted as a translation for "Kiryu-chan".
How has it not conflicted when it has conflicted?
>Or because it's not translation, it's half-assing your work. It's not translating something you can translate, it just takes effort.
It can't be translated. It literally can't be translated, or else we'd have translations for all those honorifics in the Majikoi screenshot. Translators have to either leave it in and retain the meaning at the expense of their readers needing to give a fuck, or they strip it out and try to work around it so the readers don't have to care. I don't think the latter group is worth pandering to.

Because
and Nintendo in general.

Biblical names mean something. I'm pretty sure mine means right hand of God or something

>David isn't English, make his name Beloved or Uncle instead.
This is what you sound like. Proper nouns don't get translated because otherwise you're going to unsheathe your "Sword of the heaven of the clustering clouds" to fight a practitioner of the Way of Harmony empty hand style whose name is Mountain Rice Field Demon.

In the EASIA department at my university, basically everyone uses honorifics when referring to Japanese people, when they're speaking English. Outside of academic papers, at least.

>Had Tsubasa rerecord the line where she states her age because they aged her up. As if anyone playing the censored English release could understand the spoken language anyway.
It's dumb that they aged them up when they censored the shit out of it to begin with, since then there was no reason to age her up.

Are most Austrians like that or just from whatever region he was from?

No? Why the fuck would anyone hate Treehouse / NoE and then love 8-4 for being just as bad? I fucking hate 8-4.

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Whoops, forgot my image.

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Japanese speakers frequently use "mister" and the like when referring to westerners.
I don't see why using japanese honorifics for Japanese people is such a debated topic.

are there any localisation companies you like then?

Because Japanese is a nightmare to translate and Japanese games have a long history of getting mangled during export.

It's weird when you get multicultural works like Banana Fish where the Japs use Japanese honorifics and the Americans use English honorifics and the localisers decide to completely scrub the former.

MangaGamer.

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youtube.com/watch?v=AvvTbgdqj1M

It objectively is a more efficient language in terms of information conveyed than English.
And Russian is a less efficient one than English. Doesn't somehow mean one is better than another.

The dub is a different production for a different audience, so I don't have much reason to care.

Give me the English translation for the archaic honorific -dono.

You cant.

MangaGamer were still involved.
actually I think the dub is pretty good so far

domo arigato mr roboto

>In any case your stance here is to change it to "kimono" for familiarity, right?
My stance here is to add "kimono" to it. It would be an oxymoron if it was in Japanese but here it's necessary to understand what the hell they're talking about at all.
>Where do you draw the line on what should be simplified and what should be left as is?
The specificity of it and the context it presents. A kimono is a type of robe style, a furisode is a subset of said robe style. When speaking about a bathrobe you don't just say "I'm putting on my robe", you would probably say "I'm putting on my bathrobe". A robe can mean anything, especially if you have no context for it, if you add bath in front of it now we know the specific type of robe you are wearing. The same applies to this, a furisode is a specific type of a kimono, by telling us the type of kimono we can understand that it's different to a regular kimono and when we see it we'll grasp that understanding.
Your example uses shuriken. That's an example of something that has a translation, but a sai is a specialized type of dagger, unless you already know this just translating it as "He's using a sai" makes no sense unless you've already seen one before or it's become part of the lexicon. "He's using a sai dagger" would be more appropriate because it gives the uninitiated a chance to have a preset notion of what it looks like using a generic object.
>One of these has extra info, the other doesn't.
Except both of these will have the same info in the exact same panel due to how Naruto is shown looking at Sakura and how Sakura looks at him. It is implied visually as well as in text, and if you can't grasp that he's at least familiar with her just from saying her name that's on you.
>And what if it's a novel?
missdream.org/editorials/professional-translation-and-the-american-manga-industry/
Ctrl+F "Novel". You include notations if you use them at all and even then it's not recommended because it's lazy.

The dub has some good voices and some shit voices, like most dubs. Jap Battler is pretty shit so dub Battler isn't bad, but one of the old guys has an accent that keeps slipping and the women are shit like usual in dubs.
The main problem with MG is that like CR they have many different employees who do things differently.

It's not the same message. If a Japanese person reads a pun, they might laugh. If you read the same pun, you're either going to completely miss it, or require an explanation that removes all humor from the joke.

You cannot possibly get the same message without actually knowing Japanese.

The best you can get is similar INTENT and TONE, which can only be accomplished with good localisation work.

>Except both of these will have the same info in the exact same panel due to how Naruto is shown looking at Sakura and how Sakura looks at him.
The text is not the same as the art. I can't believe I have to point this out.
>It is implied visually as well as in text, and if you can't grasp that he's at least familiar with her just from saying her name that's on you.
That it needs to be implied through a lack of information instead of being inferred through the present information is the entire problem with your choice.
>missdream.org/editorials/professional-translation-and-the-american-manga-industry/
>Ctrl+F "Novel". You include notations if you use them at all and even then it's not recommended because it's lazy.
>If you open a novel translated from Japanese into English, you will not find honorifics, suffixes, or words left in Japanese without explanation of their definition. If you go to a business meeting with live interpretation, you will not hear Japanese honorifics and suffixes or words included in the English communication. If you hire a professional to translate a document, you will not find translators who rely on honorifics to help them coast through the translation. Open an academic journal featuring translated articles and you won’t find this stuff either.
>This isn’t because professionals and academics are too lazy to include suffixes, but rather because they are working much harder to make the reading experience of their English speaking audience more intuitive and easy.
The actual reason they aren't included in these contexts is because they're being translated for people who have no interest in that information. Which is to say that the target audience is different.

Anyone who likes localisation companies is a complete retard, at best they're parasites.

>The actual reason they aren't included in these contexts is because they're being translated for people who have no interest in that information. Which is to say that the target audience is different.
People who want to watch a show that's originally in Japanese are not necessarily interested in the particulars of Japanese life. Deciding that they must all be, because you are, is just idiotic.

If you cared that much, you'd know Japanese by now.

What would be a better way to translate the Kansai dialect?

>Which is to say that the target audience is different.
It doesn't matter who the target audience is, the point she's making is the entire point I'm trying to make. They are making the effort to make it readable without needing to know Japanese culture and social hierarchy. They are making the translation work properly while taking as few creative liberties as possible. THAT is proper translation work, THAT is putting in the effort, THAT is how it should be. Leaving shit untranslated because "Oh, they'll probably know that term" is one of the worst things you can do. This goes for every language, not just Japanese.

I want the meanings conveyed as intended with it being translated as cleanly and professionally as possible, with as little foreign terminology as possible. This shows they put in the effort to convey the meaning to my local language even if it's difficult on their part, but that's their job. This doesn't mean people who leave honorifics in aren't putting in an effort to translate, far from it, but the people who do are going the extra mile, considering how to do it in the first place, and making it understandable for everyone without having to do homework.

like seinfeld

>everyone freaking out of this
easiest way to know someone didn't live through the dark ages of fansubs

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FPBP
Localization is about preserving intention through taking liberties with translating. For example, jokes, puns and certain metaphors do not make sense when translated from Japanese to English. It is necessary for localizers to change these things so that the consumer is still receiving the original writer's intention of their writing. Literal translation often means confusing the audience or breaking their immersion with phrases that don't make any sense to them.
There's always potential to fuck this process up though and add retarded memes where they don't belong. That also runs counterproductive to preserving the artist's intention.
That said, nobody knowledgeable in both languages would ever in their right mind advocate for literal translation. They would know better than to think you can translate everything 1:1 without the writer's original intention being completely lost or muddled. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or lacking in moonrune knowledge.

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How awful this would be for casual viewing aside, subtitles like those seem decent for learning the language a bit.

Cockney

>TO BE A MAN YOU MUST HAVE HONOR
>HONOR AND PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENIS

I never said that. I said they're not worth pandering to.
>If you cared that much, you'd know Japanese by now.
I'm working on it. It's not instant.

Ghost Stories also, that dub is a gem

>subtitles like those seem decent for learning the language a bit.
You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking because romaji is the worst way you can learn Japanese.

No, they're translating shit differently because it has both a different audience and entirely different aims in what it's translating. No shit you don't translate a technical document the same way you translate a drama, conflating the two is retarded.
>This goes for every language, not just Japanese.
Translation notes are common in translations outside of Japanese.
>I want the meanings conveyed as intended with it being translated as cleanly and professionally as possible, with as little foreign terminology as possible.
Funny, so do I. You just want the same meaning without the necessary information, which isn't possible.
>but the people who do are going the extra mile, considering how to do it in the first place, and making it understandable for everyone without having to do homework.
They are localising it for people who don't care to invest in it. It's that simple. You prefer that. It doesn't make it accurate.

>It doesn't make it accurate.
Translating it into English in general doesn't make it accurate, honorifics or not. There will always be liberties, leaving in honorifics changes nothing in that respect.

Leaving in honorifics at least makes it clear that the translator has some respect for the original script and will likely be more reliable than anyone who strips it out, who are likely to be from the Commie school of localisation.

Okay. It was an assumption based on 0 knowledge of the language. Don't get too worked up, a fall from a horse of that height may be dangerous.