Max crafting skill

>play FFXIV
>every other message is gold selling boy
>try to quest
>thousands of bots teleporting around area
>can’t even tag mobs
>bots start whispering you about buying gold
>try to mute them all
>blacklist becomes full
>no way to silence the bots
>speak with GM
>GM is a bot trying to sell you gold

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>craft the best weapons and armor in the game
>killing dungeon bosses imbues the gear with various special abilities/stats
Why dont games do this?

Because nobody wants to craft gear, because it isn't fun.

>why do mmorpgs do this? what's the point of crafting?
to drive players to raid instead of just crafting BiS weapons from mining and a little AH time. Some mmos did it where the gear you crafted was for getting into a raid where recipes dropped for crafted gear on par with the rest of the raid.

No, that's a shit system. The best one is where you take parts you need from a dungeon and build your own binding item that bots can't sell. There's literally nothing more satisfying than raising a skill to max and then crafting an item with parts you've taken from different parts of the endgame. It's what all games should make you feel. I think looting items from bosses must be of the most retarded things, especially for lore reasons
>enemy is a giant but his weapon becomes human sized when you wear it
>npcs say his gear was forged EXACTLY for him but somehow it's just as effective on you and never cursed
I would've loved to see some cursed items. I always appreciated how Baldur's Gate had that. Imagine if you put on a random item in WoW and you wouldn't know you'd be cursed until you did so, and getting uncursed would be incredibly painful and convoluted. That would be amazing.

Crafting shit in ff14 is what made me quit it. That and the constant erping potatoes when I was crafting my shit

>and getting uncursed would be incredibly painful and convoluted. That would be amazing.
For you, maybe, but for most people it would feel like shit and they'd probably stop playing.
>do dungeon
>get cursed

Recent game trends suggest otherwise, user.

>recent
Minecraft was a long time ago

I mean it shouldn't be as stupid as getting it for doing the raid effectively or whatever, it should be a punishment for greed. Like maybe you can wear a sword that's incredibly good, but every so often there's a chance it will passively insta kill you. I just love meme items with different unique abilities. There's nothing I hate more than neutered games now where every item is just stats. What a shit system this is.

You have to cope with the fact that boring stat systems are the only way for games to survive

What a disgusting opinion, probably from someone that's never crafted a good item or done a long quest chain to get something.

Zaws in Warframe are crafting done right. They're also the best melee weapons in the game.

>You have to cope with the fact that boring stat systems are the only way for games to survive
Not true at all, and I'm hoping Classic coming back will kill this meme once and for all. People asking for balance in games, especially non-competitive ones like a MMORPG, should unironically be gassed. Of course, having one overpowered item with a special ability kills fun and only makes it imba for those that have it. But once you have a game full of thousands of them, it's literally impossible to balance or predict what creative ways people will have to use their items. Sometimes, you'll see a person winning a fight not because they have a superior build, but because their build is so retarded and unexpected his enemy has no idea what might come next. That's the game I dream to play.

I like crafting gear in arpgs but I only like crafting consumables in mmos. I hate crafting shit in movie games.

This is the best way to handle crafting in an mmo and not make it irrelevant.

>>they're essential recipes that are valuable throughout the lifespan of the mmo
Name one fucking game idiot.

Old games were well designed without being balanced. Balance only matters in PvP games, but even then its not a big deal. OSRS is not balanced, but the OP weapons cost more so you risk more cash if you use them. That's a good way to regulate powerful weapons.

>singleplayer RPG does this shit too

If this is an MMO thread, answer me this: can an MMO exist without PVP?

I agree 100%. The desire to balance everything only - and always - leads to everything being flattened until everyone is basically playing the exact same class with a different flavor.
But this is what normies think is normal. There's a reason WoW turned out so fucking retarded, and that's because the players not only have an expectation to be even against ANY class but using ANY spec. It's so fucking stupid. Dota is probably the last game that still understands countering.

Yes? There have been many of them. LotR:O was amazing and there was no PvP. If you haven't taken out your guitar to play with some bros at the Prancing Pony, you haven't experienced real bonding, m8.

>there have been many of them
>lotro WAS amazing

>all mmos without pvp are dead

hmmmm

This post triggers me, in FFXIV all I want to do is craft.

Back when FFXIV 1.0 was released NMs like Uraeus would drop skins, the best items in the game were crafted. So to make the best DPS hat you needed I think 3 Uraeus skins and a leatherworker to make the silver tricone. This slowly changed when YoshiP, now crafted gear it a on a tick-tock cycle with dungeon gear. Some patches crafted gear will be better or used as a fast way to gear up without having to farm dungeons.

Really all gear should be crafted unless the boss is humanoid and by lore-wise, it would make sense that other humanoids could wear that bosses gear. Bosses should be dropping unique boss specific materials used to create the boss gear.

Get rid of Global AH solves this problem.

Shame we never got BGO test phase build which had NO AH and required players to run shops to sell shit.

> Design an MMO with a player-driven economy.
> Decide that's too hard for the current smooth brained WoW refugee.
> Scrap the system entirely, have HQ items come from fetch quests and the best items from dungeons.
> Still keep the indepth crafting system in the game any way.

Absolute retard plays.

What's your point? Many MMOs are dead that were great, LotrO isn't even dead, and the Classic mode is actually sub-only and people are playing it. AoC an WO are other two examples of games that weren't bad and are dead, even though WO was basically all PvP - it just doesn't matter. MMOs can die for many reasons. GW2 is still alive and it's worse than all of the previously listed games, much, much worse.

>This slowly changed when YoshiP, now crafted gear it a on a tick-tock cycle with dungeon gear. Some patches crafted gear will be better or used as a fast way to gear up without having to farm dungeons.
Translation: We want WoW's zoomer audience. Gotta get those EPIC!!!! mad lootz, yo.

Yes. Look at WoW, Gw2. ESO and FF14. While they do have pvp, the pvp content is often shit with developers spending little time making content for it. They could remove pvp and not much would change as they are pve focused games anyway.

To get those guns, look at his shoulders

Was one of them Dragon Age Inquisition?

FF14fags deserve this. They celebrated WoW dying, not realizing that all those braindead faggots would come over and demand that their game be ruined. No matter how many people blame Blizzard for the current state of WoW, the reality is that the normies that played it are overwhelmingly responsible for driving it into the gutter, and now they're all going to be flocking to FF14 to ruin that as well. Thank god FF14 is a lot less accessible.

To provide gear stopgaps, to enable twinking, to give world materials a purpose, to add more timesink without feeling like they've wasted time, to provide an outlet for gimmick or cosmetic items, or to justify aesthetic animations like OP's.

GW2's pvp is (or was last I played it) really good for a modern action mmo.

I hope FFXIV devs ignore the idiots, I am pretty sure they ignore anyone who doesn't speak Japanese anyway.

Raiding is the cancer that kills every MMO. Fuck I hate WoW so, so much.

Generally, crafting is designed as a gear tier between an early end-game Dungeon and the late end-game Dungeons.
But it usually ends up being pointless because you can do said late Dungeons with your gear from the earlier ones.

FF14's playerbase is literally comprised from those morbidly obese WoW faggots, women and mentally ill ERP freaks.

Maybe but look at the state of pvp in gw2 now. PVP has had no new maps or game modes in years and all Arenanet did was throw in some random reskin of an already existing cosmetic and do the occasional balance change.

That's really only because it was designed first as a PvP game and became a casual waifu sim instead for reasons I can't be bothered getting into.

Hardly. Crafted gear was traditionally used as an important part of progging new highest-difficulty raids so you could end up with more max HP via melding vitality to compensate for your item level being maybe a little too low for what you were doing.

The problems are not MMO, but rather us, humans. Just like with planet earth, we will ruin any other world we find, virtual or not, with endless exploits, crazed currency rushes, monopolys and performance driven play.
Before, MMOs worked because they were virtual refuges for outcasts, where they could go on wild aventures and expand what was only posible through tabletop RP.
Now that the real world catched up, no MMO will be good again.
What we all enjoyed back then, was freedom. It was fun, because it made us feel free. Not anymore.

It was cool running a shop from my house in star wars galaxies.

How is it not accessible? I've never played an mmo before and I'm moving along pretty well.

What even happened to the MMO genre? Why can't it really be succesful anymore? Is it just because the people who made MMOs so popular to begin with got older and dont have the time required to dedicate to those types of games?

Its painful user, why can't MMOs be designed around trade/crafting/gathering. With these systems, the game literally will make everything else work on its own.

With Trade crafting and gathering. You could have dynamically populated player-created cities, but without trade, the city will be poor. The crafters in the cities won't be able to craft items and the gatherers won't have anyone to sell to. You get stagnation. So trade is the main foundation the other systems on built upon. Then gathering for traders to sell in different cities, and then crafters to provide the gear and lessor complex materials for other crafts. The more prosperous a town, the more NPC population will help grow the town and slowly turn it into a city. More trade because this city will be a trade hub. With all these trade, rogues and pirate players will attack trade caravans, trade caravans will need to hire guard NPCs. With a good moral system that shows if a player is honest or more likely to backstab you.

This isn't even endgame this is just dynamic gameplay that keeps bored players going. Endgame is still doing raids/dungeons, getting monster drops for high-end gear but the raids are so big, that players will need to create camps and it may take days to complete, sure players can go back to towns, but because teleportation will be extremely expensive and town will be so far away it would be better to just buy stuff and repair stuff in the raiding camp made by players. There will be crafters and gatherers and traders in the raid camps because raiders need supplies. If designed correctly, the devs literally don't even need to work hard on creating more content, all the required player interaction to get things done will make players create most of the content. All the devs need to do is create some stupidly hard raid that requires the server as a whole to work towards unlocking it and building the required cities and getting the resources to supply the raiders to get there.

Because mmos were just a market trend and the industry moved on. Remember the Zombie Survival trend?

>tfw we will never have a gaming experience comparable to the early days/years of WoW ever again
Really sucks desu

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>archeage
don't hurt me like that

Just play FF14 it's pretty great right now. Big fan of the gathering/crafting

It's even worse in FFXIV. There's normal quality items, and HQ items.
HQ items take a bit of effort to craft. Or, you can just get them for free from the story quests, which usually involve you just talking to 3 guys.
It's stupid as fuck.

>Bosses drop ingredients that maxed crafters can use for the actual gear

So you can stack layers of RNG on top of regular RNG.

t. someone who tried to craft full delphinad set in the old system.

>monthly subscription MMO in 2019
>99% of the active users are furry erp faggots or bots
No thanks.

That's not how it works at all. You can rake in crazy money doing professions in FF14

The only stuff worth crafting are consumables like pots and food

I haven't even seen a bot, plenty of ERP though

Only if the game is pvp focused. Food and pots in pve games sell for dirt cheap.

BRING
IT
BACK

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>walk through marketplace
>several players busy crafting their shit
>the air is filled with the tink-tinks, the clanks, and similar noises
comfy

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Wait for Camelot Unchained. PvE enemies will only drop mats for crafters or extremely rare gear that can't be repaired. Also crafters are their own class rather than just being skills that anyone can grind up.

>take days to complete
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand your game is dead

That's the kind of game I want, user. Especially since many servers could be VASTLY different.

These mmo threads are often filled with retarded ideas.

It's absolutely nothing like early WoW. FF14 is more like a singleplayer game with coop thrown in.

WoW poisoned the well for at least two generations.

Whoa to different types of players. So because of raids taking only a single day to complete in wow and other MMOs what do the raiders do the other days of the week?

Oh that's right they work on progression clears of the raid content because that shit is hard and isn't completed in a single day. Have you ever played end game raiding in any game?

Seems you're lost, your home is

>get tired of vidya
>log off
>ask mom what's for dinner
>her head turns towards you unnaturally
>"but user, i can tell you, if you just buy a little gold"
>start freaking out
>run into bathroom
>look in reflection
>mom is right behind you

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more reasonable than my dream mmo mechanic

you get all the high level druids on your faction together and stand your henge chanting and tracing shapes in the stars for hours to manipulate the heavens so that your enemies will wake up to a fucking meteor destroying half their city in a week's time

What fucking frustrates me about modern MMOs, and the lack of them that succeed, is that there is SO MUCH POTENTIAL for there to be a good one today. Despite being an ancient game genre it still drums up above-average amounts of interest whenever teh rare interesting one starts being marketed. Also, as we see with stuff like WoW in the west and XIV in the east the games are still profitable and have sizable playerbases, and even when people aren't playing the games they'll still talk about them and be engaged in the market in ways that other genres can't. People are fucking miserable right now while still having a good amount of money, there is NO BETTER TIME since 2003 for an MMO to succeed. But because people continuously fuck up (Wildstar, SWTOR) and/or produce generic MMOs with no lasting appeal (Rift, LOTRO) in both aesthetics and mechanics, the games constantly fumble and fail.

It's so fucking tiring. The western MMO market could be huge, but because nobody can produce an interesting yet successful idea and continues to shit out boring worlds and born-to-fail systems people think it's a dead market.

Make an MMO that appeals to zoomers and boomers alike, it's easy. It's so easy, and yet people don't do it, not because it's hard but because they think the incompetence of others means the genre is hard to get into. Yet there is no better time to top Warcraft when its interest levels are at an all time low.

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That's not far off from what Vanilla WoW was. Besides FF14 is comfy, I spend my days crafting luxury furniture for people's FC houses

Your idea is dumb, get over it.

>Make an MMO that appeals to zoomers and boomers alike, it's easy.

how do you even do that?
boomers want rewards that take longer to get but are meaningful
zoomers want shiny new crap as fast as possible and ESPORTS

>hits bong
bruh like what if you could like build cities and shit xDD and then nuke them if you get enough wizards... fuckin hell yeah dude

Have you ever made a game?

All someone has to do is take Runescape and fix it up

So whoever has the most druids on their faction wins and on top of that they have spend hours of their game time tracing shapes and chanting bullshit. Good idea.

>>bots start whispering you about buying gold
man im fucking glad they stopped doing this

yeah its called eldevin

Baseline gear is easy to get for zoomers, advanced gear is time consuming and difficult to get. Simple enough right? Even WoW TRIES to do this.

The problem with most modern MMOs is that the wall between the zoomer gear and boomer gear is too fucking high and turns zoomers off entirely. Wildstar bombed because it had a "FUCK YOU" mentality and ad campaign, which while cathartic for pissed off boomers is not conductive to an actual living game world.

There's also the problem of advanced gear being almost identical to baseline gear, which is retarded. Make them very distinct and have unique powers and effects. Make not-mandatory, but effective, abilities unlocked at advanced tiers in order to encourage casuals to keep trying and become better players.

The wall between boomer and zoomer needs to be lowered.

>the endgame for smithing in runescape is mid level garbage dropped by so many monsters it actually causes you to lose money smithing the equipment
Lol

just kill the fucking druids

Are you fucking retarded, dude? It's an almost completely instanced game like GW1 was. What do you mean
>not far off
THEY AREN'T SIMILAR AT ALL.

You know whats funny. This idea is kind of what I think the crafting/survival type of games were trying to go for.

Do you want a Skyrim kind of situation where everything you craft is a gazillion times better than the shit you find questing?

NO FACTIONS
NO CASH SHOP
$10 SUB A MONTH

FUCKING EASY

Yes? Just fix the alchemy/enchanting exploit and it’s fine. If you bother leveling the skill you should get better equipment.

>no factions

hard pass

>muh tribes
unga

>NO FACTIONS
But factions (and races) are a good way to filter out fags and shitters

The only way to get world first clears and start charging shitters for paid carries is to have the best crafted gear first to be able to beat the end game raids and get better gear that drops to make your paid runs easier and for you to earn more irl money.

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>NO CASH SHOP

the amount of money retards will throw at cash shops grantees this will never happen. this is basically blade and soul without a cash shop though which IMO would be the perfect mmo

>that combat
>that pvp
>the crafting
the pay to not grind absolutely RUINED this game

And then they respawn? And you try to kill them again? And they respawn again and so on.

He's right and you're a fucking mouthbreathing subhuman, don't even reply to this.

I have made a few games. You act like player cities aren't things? Have you ever played Archeage? Cities really aren't that hard to implement, depending on how your engine works. For example, a voxel-based game engine cities are pretty simple. For shops and stuff, the city designer could flag areas in the cities and shops, if the "building" as a door then you could have NPCs make a shop there. Look at Minecraft, the NPC villagers literally are reproduced by doors. NPC pathing really isn't that hard. If you have ever looked at RTS pathing for AI, it's not very CPU intensive it's not super smart but its good enough to help make a world feel real.

Speaking of Skyrim. Isnt Skyrims leveling system based on the idea that "you leveled up your crafting skills, so now due to the level scaling creatures are now going to push your shit in because you didnt work up your combat skills." In other words, your character is a craftsman, not a warrior. Yet people seemed to hate this system.

use your imagination

racial factions are fine, factions are usually Team A and Team B that dilute identities

>wanting Factions
guild alliances should be the only "factions"

MMOs I can understand, why do non-MMO RPGs do this?

>player housing

>it's all individual instances

Why not just play a singleplayer game?

Yeah that's what will happen and why no game has such a retarded mechanic. Why would you ever have a class that can level cities simply by gathering together and casting shit.

Because no one wants to see the open world littered with wooden shacks and terrible looking housing decor.

Then do phased player streets.

come on you can think of ways to control that if you try

>Play entire game solo save for a couple elite quests each zone that are completely optional
VS
>Play entire game solo except for some mandatory story quests tied to Dungeons and Trials

Endgame
>Find a Guild/FC and run content together

Yeah, if you create a system where items have to be physically transported to new locations for trade, and items have a size and weight value, then it makes the logistical aspect of trade more interesting, and requires trade really big a thing. I think a lot of survival games aren't designed from the ground up around trade being the main component. They are based around combat.

Only way to solve this is to have 9-12 guild houses up for purchase in any town that require monthly rent to have. Rent goes up the more other guilds are willing to pay ensuring that everyone has it for at least a month of the year.

This is a simple fix if a player doesn't maintain their house it's decomposed and deleted.

>all this obsession with crafting when its always a peripheral system in every successful game
You guys are giving it more thought than the devs. Nobody actually cares this much.

Is it better to fight 50 times last boss to gather material to craft best weapon ?

After watching Shroud of the Avatar play out I never want to see player housing again.

Yeah by not having that at all and just making it some long term win condition for player groups to achieve.

Don't move the goalposts, ape. I said that WoW wasn't instanced which is the entire point. You could go from one point of the continent to the other just by traveling. You could climb into random places for fun. It actually felt like an organic world, in ways that FF14 never, ever, EVER will.

Greentext?

>You could go from one point of the continent to the other just by traveling.
Wasn't there once an incident where a player aggro'd some kind of dragon boss and lured it into a player hub?

MMO IMPORTANCE TIER LIST

Setting = Combat >>>>>>>> Systems >>>>>>>>> Races >> >>> big stinky wet dog shit > Story

Vanilla wow actually has recipes that are useful for pre bis and crafting wepons for specific use cases. Also if most boss drops were not better than crafted gear players wouldnt do the content.

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>systems that far behind
Brah that should be the most important thing

Yes, and it was kino.
youtube.com/watch?v=lFuBmkVvUTQ

That was old wow, new wow is zone sharded, they are instanced now that other user is stupid and doesn't understand how zone sharding instancing works in wow.

Also
>wow servers then
>wow servers now
youtu.be/_710acu75TM?t=620
Epic server crash at 30 man fight. True and tested BLIZZARD quality.

so how about that Lord of the RIngs MMO in the works?
you wanna be a dwarf and craft some sick mithril?

>That was old wow, new wow is zone sharded, they are instanced now that other user is stupid and doesn't understand how zone sharding instancing works in wow.
No, retard, zones aren't "sharded" , shards comprise the entire world and they're only there at launch. Your game is shitty and instanced, cope.

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youtube.com/watch?v=YoNQiKNqMdU
Game was great, haters get fucked.
HIDEOUS character creator though.

Yeah I agree that their foundation isnt exactly perfect for what your idea was, just that they sound like the games that were closest to acheiving that type of game. I think a big issue that would be challenging to overcome is keeping players who are "craftsman" interested in the game. Like yeah they might be engaged for a little while, but eventually I feel like those types of players would get bored and move on. Its way easier to keep players engaged if your content is focused on combat and exploration.

Another issue this type of game would have to overcome is player trolling. Way too many people in online games are just interested in trolling for a game as intricate as you describe to truly work.

Oh, you think just because there is a single instance per zone it isn't instanced? wow, zones are shared instances between servers. You know what an instance is right? And instance is a game region where you connect up to a different server. When you leave Stormwind or Org, you seamlessly connect to a different instance, that is how you can see players not on your server running around.

I am not sure how I am coping? I am simply explaining to you how wow server infrastructure is designed. Wow server is no longer hosted on a blade server in a blizzard DC, wow is hosted in the cloud and instances are spun up to dynamically accommodate for the player population in a given shard/instance.

ff14 2.0 was never any better anyways. It's a shit game where all gear progression and character builds are the same. Each class has to be played the exact same way and there's no room for loading out and specializing in different sets of skills.

>When you leave Stormwind or Org, you seamlessly connect to a different instance, that is how you can see players not on your server running around.
Maybe in nu-WoW.
>I am not sure how I am coping? I am simply explaining to you how wow server infrastructure is designed. Wow server is no longer hosted on a blade server in a blizzard DC, wow is hosted in the cloud and instances are spun up to dynamically accommodate for the player population in a given shard/instance.
What the fuck does this have to do with Vanilla WoW? You are coping, because this conversation started with that and now you're talking about fucking retail somehow.

I need to study up more on how eve handles trolling. Eve is a really good example of how to have a game where players run almost everything and have emergent gameplay.

As far as keeping crafters interested in crafting is to have this that player want to accomplish cost a lot of money. This will give crafters the whole to keep selling and crafter to get to those goals. Possibly the only way to build siege weapons for a castle is to spend a bunch of money on materials to craft siege weapons or pay NPCs guards to guard the cities. This keeps crafter having to keep bringing in income.

I mean in FFXIV after buying Large house money becomes worthless, there is nothing that is more valuable than a large house in the game. That is kind of bad design. There should be items that are extremely expensive to maintain and use but keep the players working towards them.

have you finished the arr msq?
its like a hundred hour long filter

>Nothing more expensive than a large house
Invest in Cherryblossom trees

I never mentioned vanilla wow. If you reread what I said, I said that was old wow. And then explained how instancing works in wow, then you told me I was wrong, and then I explained how wow works. Classic wow will run off a similar system to "nu-wow"
FFXIV isn't designed to be an open-world game, so comparing wow to FFXIV, and telling me I am coping is a tad bit silly because I never even mentioned FFXIV.

to give raidfags a reason to live

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FFXI only had PvP in special areas, where almost nobody ever went
LOTRO only has PvP (actually PvMP) in a special area that freefags can't even go to

interesting

I've yet to see a modern MMO do even half the shit MUDs from the 90s could.

So the game was billed as like Ultima Online (with a single player Ultima-like rpg included). They funded it though selling permanent deeds for plots of land to the same boomers* that pretty much invented RMT back in the 90s. These deeds were tradeable and the whole point of the model was that RMTers would buy up everything and resell it to all the players that would join up on release. Of course barely anyone did join up on release so all these players had to start grooming the few people who did to buy shit off them instead of the other RMTers and everything got very creepy very fast. When they started getting desperate for money they did the same for limited edition decorations but since the company is fucking dead (they have maybe two developers who work from home because they can't afford rent for an office and Garriott and Starr have quietly relinquished their executive positions) they're literally just unity asset store items stuck in the game and sold for silly amounts.

Also because all the best land is owned but the game is ghost town and even the people with money tied up in the game are gone the cities are even more empty and dead than usual dead mmos.

The alternative is crafting is the only thing that matters
See LOTRO, endgame is just running dungeons for mats. Hell the first expansion was running dungeons for mats

oh look it's the rebbit anti-shroud squad

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Would a system where even basic items are player crafted, but are provided at players at a discount or with some other small buff?

DAOC did gear right originally.
Have hard caps on your stats. Get all the important/wanted bonuses you can from dropped/rare gear. Buy player crafted armor pieces. Spellcraft that armor with desired stats to fill in missing gaps. Go PvP and shitpost on the forums afterwards.

This. If you're reading this, especially if you're underage, quit playing mmo's. Unless you have really good friends on them or something, they're fucking trash. Take up a skill like reproducing recipes from youtube or something that will benefit you.

One of my favourite things about that game is that the subreddit is 100% against Portalarium.

And then it all wore out so you'd have to buy or make new ones so the economy kept running.

>Classic wow will run off a similar system to "nu-wow"
No, it won't, sharding and layering are totally different, and layering will be removed in a couple of weeks. Also Vanilla was what this conversation was about, dumbass.
>FFXIV isn't designed to be an open-world game, so comparing wow to FFXIV, and telling me I am coping is a tad bit silly because I never even mentioned FFXIV.
You're not coping yet you somehow keep moving goalposts to defend FFXIV's shitty instanced system.
>FFXIV isn't designed to be an open-world game
Too bad, that's one of the few things that makes a real MMO.

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That sounds disastrous, and I even thought of buying it on release.

>only one guy on server can craft certain item
>got the recipe in a PUG
>offers to make item if you bring mats
>charges 1 piece of the most expensive mat (arcanite bar) for clicking on an anvil and waiting 20 seconds
kek

Then why don't you go back?

Shillfag didn't even mention that the game went f2p last year, or that the "best land" isn't even in NPC towns anymore. Or that new players have a way to quickly get a land deed by doing a new player quest and another from the main quest.
The reason for "ghost towns" is that the game world was designed for 10x-100x the population But the Euro company that they partnered with and was supposed to advertise the game completely failed to do so, or blew it all on Fakebook """ads""". So they've been working on finding every reason new players might abandon the game in under an hour, before getting serious about advertising.
>because they can't afford rent
Sure, when the place they rented from (which couldn't even keep the heat working right in the winter in fucking TEXAS) suddenly demanded 3x the rent on a 4 year contract, at the same time that their data center decided they only wanted big customers, get out now. But as rebbitors like to tell it, they're begging on 6th street with a guitar and a hat.
Fuck that and the Mopac commute along with it.

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>No, it won't, sharding and layering are totally different, and layering will be removed in a couple of weeks. Also Vanilla was what this conversation was about, dumbass.
>You're not coping yet you somehow keep moving goalposts to defend FFXIV's shitty instanced system. What Goalpost did I move, how I have ever defending FFXIV? You are the only person bringing up FFXIV.
>Too bad, that's one of the few things that makes a real MMO.
By this logic wow isn't a real MMO, just because wow doesn't have visible zone lines doesn't mean you don't zone in and out of zones. I will agree, I don't like FFXIV's zoning system, but it does have a massive amount of players in a single zone. Same with wow. How you get to the zones via a seamless transition or a loading screen doesn't change if a game is an MMO.

You can say I am coping and seething or whatever you want, but you are the only person who is getting defencing when it comes to a game you prefer and saying I play a competing game. I have only listed facts, if facts upset you, there is nothing I can do to help you.

Sharding and layering are pretty similar, both use the same tech. In fact, they are the same thing but had a slightly different mechanic on how you are assigned an instanced shard.

Are you actually Chris?

>Sharding and layering are pretty similar
With one big difference. With layering, you can eventually see everyone in your "shard". With sharding you can never see 90% of the players of the game because you're on the "wrong" shard.

Just watched too many of his 3x weekly streams.

I still think FFXI had the right idea by having high level Notorious Monsters drop rare crafting pieces instead of just plain gear, so people who put time into crafting were a necessary part of completing their gear. But the reason that didn't stick around is probably because of people complaining about the tedium and risk of crafting failures, as well as players scamming each other.

Crafting failures poofing most of your materials was one of the worst things about FFXI crafting. Limiting you to maxing out only one craft per character wasn't so great either, but I guess it sold a bunch of extra $1/mo character slots, which you needed for inventory anyhow.

Albion lets you make top tier stuff but it tends to be a clusterfuck of a pee vee pee grief fest. If you don't mind getting stomped every once in a while though it's fine.

I think the #1 use for crafting in FFXIV was crafting equipment for crafting.

I think that is worth the risk, failure thing is kind of a pain, I think with the current crafting system in FFXIV that would be okay, If you fail a craft you either fucked up or gambled. Now failing to get an Item to HQ sucks, but with reclaim costing 50 CP if you know you aren't going to get the item HQ, you will get the rare material back, you could even combo them where the crafter could use reuse if it procs and get the rare material back.

>max crafting skill
>dungeon boss drops loot worse than anything any player could craft
why do mmorpgs do this? what's the point of dungeons?

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>By this logic wow isn't a real MMO, just because wow doesn't have visible zone lines doesn't mean you don't zone in and out of zones. I will agree, I don't like FFXIV's zoning system, but it does have a massive amount of players in a single zone. Same with wow. How you get to the zones via a seamless transition or a loading screen doesn't change if a game is an MMO.
Nope, only if it's a good one with good game design. By this argument it's all 1s and 0s, nigga, you aren't convincing me by trying to be technical.
>>You can say I am coping and seething or whatever you want, but you are the only person who is getting defencing when it comes to a game you prefer and saying I play a competing game. I have only listed facts, if facts upset you, there is nothing I can do to help you.
>going into semantics to defend ff14 being an instanced pile of shit
>facts
Lol ok.
>Sharding and layering are pretty similar, both use the same tech. In fact, they are the same thing but had a slightly different mechanic on how you are assigned an instanced shard.
They aren't the same at all you uneducated monkey. With layering you are momentarily stuck on one layer with the same people. In sharding you're zipping all over the place along with everyone else, it's total chaos. And again, this will only be there for launch purposes, so yes, Classic will be infinitely superior to some instanced dogshit.

So anyhow, now that it has already been trolled, I'll point out that crafting in Shroud of the Avatar is intended that the best items are crafted. They've made some artifact items, and rightly take some heat when they're good enough to become obligatory for some builds. They just added a way to combine multiple of the same artifact into a better one by crafting, so we'll see how that turns out.
What they specifically don't have is tier gear from raids. Not that they actually have proper raids yet, as combining parties is still a few months away on their to-do list. I'm not sure what they'll do about loot rewards when they do get raids going, but I feel sure it's not going to be tier gear that makes certain raids obligatory so you can climb a gear ladder.

Nope, only if it's a good one with good game design.
I think you might be retarded, FFXIV is literally a clone of wow, with different zoning mechanics. One is a "real MMO" and the other isn't.

If you don't understand the difference here. I am just going to stop replying.

I hope you enjoy classic wow, I played during vanilla, and I played on Nost and Lights hope. Wow is a good game.

>clone of WoW
This can be applied to literally every MMO made post-Vanilla, and they're all vastly different, as is FF14 - in every bad way that there is. It's grindy, the combat is shit, the setting is shit, it's full of instances and loading screens, tons of gold farmers, ERPers with their cat girls, and an overarching story. You actually have to be braindead to compare this game to Vanilla except if you're looking at the most rudimentary elements.
> One is a "real MMO" and the other isn't.
Well, one is a good MMO, yeah.
>I hope you enjoy classic wow, I played during vanilla, and I played on Nost and Lights hope. Wow is a good game.
Yes, I did too, and I look forward to going back to it and I've played every MMO since Vanilla from GW1, GW2, BDO, SWTOR, FF14, ESO, AOC, WHO, B&S, TERA, the list goes on. All shit compared to Vanilla. OSRS is charming but it's just a different beast altogether, and UO is dead.

so what's the solution?

Spell out your vision for the game clearly right at the start and tell people to fuck off if they demand bullshit.

Don't make a game based around end game raiding, make the game based around end game castle sieges on player-created cities. Let the player interactions create the content.

This thread is about mmorpgs, hivebro

Also don't be afraid to let players create shit that other players can see. While there will be the inevitable penis shaped things (that can be dealt with by time bans), the more you let players do, not only will it be content you don't have to make, but the players will feel a lot more part of the game. More sandbox is more good.

Make casual content, make harder content, make it so one doesn't completely and utterly dominate the other. How fucking hard is that?!

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This guy gets it, devs are struggling to continue to make content, when in reality if they designed their games to give players the ability to design things like items and more, almost like 3d modeling like maybe spore type shit, and each piece added to the model has a material cost for crafting the item, then you don't even need to make items anymore. Just give the tools to the community someone with design and create the cool looking gear themselves allow them to sell the recipes to craft that designed gear.

It takes so long to create a "content creation" system that you won't be able to make the base game at all.

>max crafting skill
>you can't still create the best items in game, you need high quality materials first
>materials have stats and they're only available for a limited time
>half of the materials don't require fighting at all, some can come from shit creatures, finding those can still be a game on its own
>might need components from other crafting specializations, they may have stats too that might influence the final product
>some fighting classes have crafting trees that use this same system
>even if you can't create best items, there's still a market for them because everything wears out
>there are drops but they're usually utter shit, or can be op as fuck, but durability ends up kicking in
>nobody fucking played this game despite being based on one of the most popular franchises ever because the devs were retarded as shit and then wow came out
Jesus Chris I miss SWG so fucking much and no, private servers aren't nearly the same, and neither are other games with "complex" crafting.

Idono man, who says the game has to have really good graphics look at Minecraft. When Hytale comes out I am going to create a crafting/trading mod. They are literally giving us all the tools needed to create new items.

FUCK WHERE THE FUCK IS HYTALE AT I WANT TO MOD THAT GAME SO HARD!

Eso dosent do that

>devote dev time to system dedicated to a minority of autistic players
>game flops

EVE is like this, too bad the core gameplay loop fucking sucks.

There's some items that are given as part of quests or as starter gear but these can be broken down into mats, and even crafted.
There are vendors that sell things but that establishes a price ceiling, it's cheaper to buy ammo from the auction house.
But since everything is location based, if you're in the high risk high reward zone ammo becomes more expensive (still cheap of course; this is just an example) because of the cost to haul it (or the mats to make it) into the danger zone.
Add on the item drop (with 50% being destroyed) on death and you have a system where crafting is ALWAYS practical and important.

And yes, in EVE you can build a station and if enough wizards get together they can kill it.

Are you guys talking about Guild Wars 2? Oh no....

EVE is barely a game

To gear up for dungeons, otherwise no one would have a reason to do content more than once

Maybe because you only played shit games?

>DAoC

Crafting pretty much mandatory in order to fix "holes" in your stats and cap everything. Everyone had basically 2~3 crafted piece of armor since accessories couldn't be crafted. Going only with loots wouldn't work as you would exceed hardcap in some stats.

>Final Fantasy XI

Crafting Skill pretty much required to make some of the best items in the game. Having 100.0+3 in some crafts like Goldsmithing would make generate tons of money.

>implying people buy crafted gear or craft gear before dungeons
nobody does this, theres ALWAYS an easier/cheaper way to get gear

Just do it like guild wars, where you only get cosmetics from the toughest endgame content, and bragging rights.

>design things like items
Going to have to stop you there. If you give players the chance to design items they'll just create over-powered dream gear. I was talking about more like housing.
Item models are especially troublesome because that directly affects game performance, and all clients need to have the model too. You don't want your game to hit 20fps just because players are shitty with model creation.

>Just do it like guild wars, where you only get cosmetics from the toughest endgame content
>where you only get cosmetics from the toughest endgame content
game dies instantly. you're either lying or there's another way to get cosmetics in GW2

This guy gets it.

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>a minority of autistic players
You mean raidfags, right?

>Having 100.0+3 in some crafts like Goldsmithing would make generate tons of money.
Been there, done that, started GS when one of those SE newsletter things showed it wasn't popular, by the time I reached 100 it seemed like everyone else had maxed GS.

Cosmetics are exactly the way you turn autism into micro-transaction bux. And cosmeticfags aren't usually raidfags.

Ok.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Hunter

FPBP
/thread
It's so pathetic to see faggots defending the "golden age" of MMOs, and utter garbage like vanilla WoW. The genre was ALWAYS terrible and still is, mainly because almost all of them are centered around killing things, but their battle systems are completelly awful.
The genre should have been turn based.

What year was it for everyone to have GS 100? On my server we were only a handful so I was making good money and had tons of people coming to me to craft things.

>The genre should have been turn based.
HAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
oh no no no... bruh

>RO
>mmo
>not just a bottling grind fest
Lmaoing

You posted ArcheAge while saying that? I haven't played for years but didn't crafting give the best equipment? Fucking Delphinad shit and such?

What a shame, because the economy should always be the centerpiece of every MMO.
If you cannot succeed in the economy you should not be able to progress.

I said Guild Wars, not Guild Wars 2.

Sylph, maybe 2012 or so?

Haha, that is an easy fix, so this is how it works. Players are given design templates based on level tier. That a limited number of parts that can add to the gear. Remember base armor and add on pieces/parts will give the stats. Make it so there is a poly limit, this piece of armor can only be 15k polys or something before it can be published. Players will need to optimize their items before it can be recreated into and item or created into a recipe. Look at how VR chat does it, they even let you use blender, and then you can upload your model to the VRchat servers. This shit is literally already being done.

I would limit their creation a bit by having little the materials be modeled already and they can choose to shape them and apply them together. Like those 2d logos, things they use in BF4 people can essentially create their own stuff but based on pieces the devs provide.

Did you reply to the wrong message?

Likewise the economy shouldn't be a pushover. I've been playing LOTRO as f2p-only and holy shit how easy it is to get gold, I'm like a one-hobbit gold sink with all the crap I sell just because I would rather it get used by someone for crafting. And what few things I would be willing to buy never even appear on the AH.

An MMO completely designed and based around crafting would be pretty neat.
Build the world so that players are all different crafters primarily, and only adventurers secondarily because they need the materials from high level enemies and areas.
The plot would be accidentally saving the world because the demon king's horns are the most rare and valuable materials or something.

>15k polys
fucking luxury in an MMO

I was Garuda, I played between 2004 and late 2009 however. I left when LV80+ uncap was announced basically. So that explains why. Almost nobody had GS 100 on my server, we were literally like 2 non Japanese, maybe a couple Japanese as well. Almost anyone with 99+ in a craft would swim in money, GS even more than others consider how hard it was to achieve (read how costly).

I think 2009 or 2010 was when I saw the SE newsletter thing that showed high level GS was at like 1% or something. The other thing is they popped the RMT bubble in late 2007 and prices slowly deflated all during 2008. I started in mid 2008 so I missed having absurd amounts of gil, I had to get to 300M the hard way.

If that is to hard make it smaller, It doesn't really matter you could have it be 200 poly per piece of you want to look Minecraft ESC or something.

Just find a reasonable polygon budget per armor, then create that as the max budget.

>The best one is where you take parts you need from a dungeon
so, basically, the player gets the item from the boss. plus one superficial step.
>especially for lore reasons
how about: a bunch of other adventurers tried to kill the boss but failed, and now the boss has all their stuff in his pile of treasure.

Inflation started to die around 2007 yes, shortly after ToAU came out. It was still an absolute drag to get the money to fund crafting. I made it to 100 simply thanks to over reaching to people in order to craft their shit at no fee. You eventually build a reputation, people trust you and are even willing to just mailbox you the shit you need to craft in advance even if it means I could run away with the mats.

>crafting thread
>ctrl-f SWG
>this lone post
what the FUCK happened to this board

nobody likes their hard earned stuff to eventually crumble to dust