*Kills the main series*

1 > EP > 3 > IS > 5 > 4

Daily reminder

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This.

>EP above IS
You have bad taste even on bait

Imagine actually believing this

RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES

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cringe, imagine enjoying this shit game

Based.

Based as fuck.

WATCH US MULTIPLY

EP cranking up the difficulty makes you actually take advantage of the mechanics and play the game instead of being a horrendously slow autobattler. Because y'know, you at least have to fucking fuse to beat the game. Only problem is that the PSP version isn't localized so you have to hear Bubsy 3D Maya.

smtfags are just salty that persona went mainstream and is relevant

worst battle theme
and somehow they outdid themselves with royal's even shittier song

>1 above anything
based contrarian

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Being harder don't excuses the fucked up story and the fucked thing they did with Maya character
That is not even a battle theme technically

>mainstream

Just because Fagker is in Smash doesn't mean Persona is mainstream. Normies will still dismiss P5 because of muh weebshit.

This one was interesting because of the grim tone, and also because it takes a unique approach to the party member mechanics. 99% of JRPGs make you/protag this cult leader-type figure who decides every event for every character. In P3 your teammates occasionally are too busy to join your dungeon crawling, they get tired and ditch you at the nearest opportunity, you suggest tactics but largely depend on the chosen actions of your party members.
But then you became the god of everyone's existence in P4 onwards and the series went back to shit.

>it's another "Maya has no character because she talks less" episode

when will waifufags stop failing to understand that dialogue is not characterization? she still has her exact same attitude, she just expresses it nonverbally

Normies love P5 bro, some even use some music of it in youtube videos

right? jpop battle themes are fucking garbage imo but i really like mass destruction and wiping all out

nah man, i'm salty that no other smt game is coming out other than more persona 5 spin offs.

cope
weebshit is as normalfag as it gets nowadays

this
>dialogue gives you options that reflect maya personality
>picking the wrong ones punishes you
>REEEEEEEEEEE SHE IS BAD

>Muh Persona Three!!
Rent free.

>This one was interesting because of the grim tone, and also because it takes a unique approach to the party member mechanics.
Being grim is debatable, also AI party members are older than that
>. In P3 your teammates occasionally are too busy to join your dungeon crawling, they get tired and ditch you at the nearest opportunity, you suggest tactics but largely depend on the chosen actions of your party members.
The busy part is rare as fuck and they only get tired if you use them too much
Cope

It sounds like you're the one coping, P4fag.

>She got personality bro it its just in dialogue choices now
If that is true then Persona never used a self insert Mc

Remember SMT5 in 2019? Me neither.

Looks like you're the one coping, P5fag.

>Entire team of persona users linked by the passing of their loved ones forced to accept the inevitability of death as the end of the game.
vs.
>LET'S KILL THIS GOD FOR SENPAI, HEEHEE.

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>>Entire team of persona users linked by the passing of their loved ones forced to accept the inevitability of death as the end of the game.
>Edgy good let's fight death
>>LET'S KILL THIS GOD FOR SENPAI, HEEHEE.
>Let's find the truth that is hidden and no one wants to see while also saving the town from Izanami
I can do that too

This. P4fag BTFO.

>accept the inevitability of death as the end of the game.
Literally wrong as they defy death by fighting Nyx

Meme game

Just like Nocturne!

based

>forced to accept the inevitability of death
except for when junpei dies, or when chidori dies, or when shinjiro dies (in p3p). p3 babbies always like to gloss over that.

P3, P4, and P5 all have pretty shit overall stories and people overhype P3's stuff way too much when it's pretty run-of-the-mill. P2's story is much more interesting overall, even among actual SMT games which don't have a lot going for them storywise in the first place and rely mostly on atmosphere.

P2 is the same shit user, Nyarly is even overrated

long live the king desu

>Persona overtakes mih mainlaine Shin muhgumi tensay
>Persona fans freely admit that the slice of life and associated waifu mechanics are a draw
>SMT fans SEETHE that Persona fans are delusional retards who love derivative stories while vehemently defending that their own jrpg cutouts resisting the apocalypse for the gorillionth time is somehow mature and deep
>P5 comes along and brings Persona up to muster with SMT while adding qol improvements and refining it's non-demon mechanics so both feed into one another seamlessly while retaining the trademark Atl*s laziness
>SMTonlis double down on chimping out instead of acknowledging that while P5 was a gud evolution of the formula, both series are held back by Atl*s being lazy jews fishing for mobile game-tier spinoffs and a writing team that makes the retards behind Fire Emblem look like Tolkien in comparison

You've only yourselves to blame

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>A Persona is a mask you wear in life
>You wear different masks in different aspects of your life (ie as a son, as an anonymous shitposter, so on and so forth)
>None of them are entirely you, but all of them are you to an extent
>Your true self is somewhere inbetween all of them

>Unless you're a P3-4-5 babby in which case you're either a 1-dimensional cardboard cutout, or a sociopath who changes their entire being on the fly to manipulate people into higher fusion bonuses
lol personas

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zoom zoom zoom.

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>Persona 5 is by far the worst Persona game
That'd be 4, which isn't only the worst Persona game AND the worst SMT game, it's one of the worst JRPGs of all time.

I played and beat the stand P4 last month, and I'm almost finished with P5. I enjoyed both games, and I plan to play P4G later down the line but I wanted to check out 3 first.

What's the best way to play off the bat? I've seen the OG, Fes and Portable - which one do you all like best?

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>P1 Mc had personality now

FES, easy.
Good luck going back to P3, though. It's the best game in terms of writing and characterization, but holy shit do you miss some of the gameplay improvements in 4 and 5

FES is the best, P3P is good for replays as there is the Femc route

Correction: best of the big 3.

This is the fault of P2 for flopping user

> It's the best game in terms of writing and characterization,
>He says this while Koromaru, Shinji and Ken exists and there is also an ass pull memory wipe at the end that serves for nothing

I even forgot Fuuka

Thanks for the tip user. I've heard P3 doesn't have direct command, does FES have a direct command option for the party members or do I have to pray the computer does what I want? I don't mind either way, just curious.
I've heard P3 and P2 have some of the best stories in the series, I can live with the downgrade in gameplay mechanics.

>Thanks for the tip user. I've heard P3 doesn't have direct command, does FES have a direct command option for the party members or do I have to pray the computer does what I want? I don't mind either way, just curious.
You need to use tactics(they were in P4 and 5 too), there is a cheat that gives you party control if you play on the emulator
>I've heard P3 and P2 have some of the best stories in the series, I can live with the downgrade in gameplay mechanics.
That is on you

If there is anything you must never trust, is when people praise the story of something

>That is on you
I figured. I didn't mind the plots to P4 or 5, 5 definitely feels weaker than 4 but 4 was pretty safe since it's a murder mystery. The social links felt better in 5 though.

FES doesn't have direct commands unless you're emulating, but if you use the tactics menu you'll be fine.

God i have no regrets when i choose Naoto in Persona 4. Other girls is boring

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imagine thinking that persona spin offs in any way delay mainline games

>Want to play P4G
>Its only on dead console
Why Atlus is so retarded goddammit

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I won a VitaTV on ebay for like 60 bucks. I figured I'd play Tales of Hearts as well.

Best girl

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Not trying to start a waifu war but what do people see in Naoto? I found her to be incredibly uninteresting so I'm shocked that she's the designated "best girl" of P4.

OFFICIAL LIST OF BAD OPINIONS:
>P1 is bad and outdated
>IS is better than EP
>Tartarus and tactics are bad
>P4 has better dungeons than P3
>P5 has the best soundtrack

If you hold any of these opinions, reevaluate your entire existence

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Closet gays who wanna fuck a dude but "n-no homo though"

Most rewarding S.Link event i guess.

>P1 is bad and outdated
>IS is better than EP
>Tartarus and tactics are bad
>P4 has better dungeons than P3
>P5 has the best soundtrack
All but the soundtrack are true

>IS is better than EP

This is vital. Thinking this is the mark of an unsalvageable pleb.

Same guy here, just wanted to add on that I think she's cool. Her outfit, the fact that she uses a gun, her unique skill set, all that is nice. But beyond that surface level stuff theres just nothing there for me.

>Old = good

Being a contrarian is bad

Because pretty much everyone agrees that Chidori and Shinji (which isnt canon) living is dumb as fuck and were only added after the base game for fanservice reasons.
At least in Junpei's case it leads to Chidori's intended death which is the big turning point for his character.

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Cringe

boring parrot who makes obvious observations and stupid decisions and somehow is considered a genius for it

also really bored of her archetype when it appears in other games (stoic 'manly' girl with """"surprising layer of feminity"""")

>TFW all your friends were hardcore P3 fans
>That one friend who was obsessed with the MC of P3.
>Cosplayed as him
>Copied his personality and mannerisms in public.
>Always stayed quiet in groups

I hope the dude went and saw a therapist, because he had some issues. I've never seen someone get so attached to a character that they start to mimic said character's personality IRL. It was kind of disturbing, like he even set the MC from P3 as his profile picture on everything.

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The boyish voice to girlish voice change in her lv 10 s.links makes it for me. Im talking about undubbed version of course

>all the personababies itt who haven't played Raidou v the Soulless Army who think they can discern the best megaten story
Ohahahaha

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>Raidou 1
>Good in anything at all
At least say Raidou 2

You got to be joking.

Based.

but the mc has no personality

Just finished Persona 4 and now i feel empty goddammit.

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Maybe that user friend used the Movie/Manga or dancing game one

Play P3 and 5 now

already finished 3 before 4. Maybe i should watch the 4 anime first before 5

He has an implied personality. He slouches, his hair covers his eyes, and he always has headphones. Combined with his depressing backstory and shitty earlygame social stats it's implied he's been pretty fucked up by his parents dying and literal Death living inside him.

That is good, the P4 anime is fun

Vanilla, Golden or both ?

Biggest problem with Persona 5 is the waifu simulator and unbelievable characters. This game has to appeal to the incel community so much it's embarrassing.

Vanilla, Golden would be good but they make the Mc focused too much on Marie and they also make her role much much bigger than normally, it's her anime

Is Tales of Hearts good?

You mean SMT? It's their own fault for not releasing more games as good as Nocturne.

Not really. Nocturne is just a slightly harder Persona. The other SMT games look like shitty VNs.

Persona started at 3.

You mean 1 ?

>persona
>not a shitty VN
really nigga?

I just finished it and I enjoyed it. Makes me want to play some of the other SMT games.

If you dont think tartarus is utter garbage your opinon is worthless, simple as that

Cope harder , 3 and 4 are irrelevant

Cringe
Falseflag cringe

It's on a 70% sale right now, should I buy it or wait for royal

*Wastes a Fighters Pass slot*

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Why are you giving 5 credit for what 3 did and 4 finished?

4 > 5 > 3

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buy it now you FOOL!

This is Persona thread, Smash niggers will be shot.

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Tell me if P4 Anime has spa scene

FES
Not that FES is necessarily the "best" version of Persona 3, but rather that FES is the best way to play it first. Portable is a great game, provided that you played the original/FES first.
It's entirely fine to prefer Portable, but never recommend it to a newcomer.

All these butthurt tendies and Waiters shitposting because they cant play the best JRPG released in years.

>Nofriendo still can't get atlus to port P5 to switch even though they beg and plead and added joker to smash

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Both of them are fucking great on their own, afterall both of em are megaten games, right?

Probably the worst third party character of all time.

You would LOVE the slot if you actually got to play the game tendie :)

How do I break the habit of fusing mana refill and mediarama/han on every new demon

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I think P4 was the real nail in the coffin. That was the first game where they dropped the SMT title.

Also, definitely the worst persona game

No Persona game ever had the smt title, I fucking hate eop secondaries

That game screams "all style no substance".

Yo, how do I fix the audio stutter on Rpcs3 for this game? Been trying every solution from google and none worked

When will Persona and SMT fags unite and be generalised megaten chads?

It never had the SMT title you fucking idiot

Take a shower, Smashnigger

4 just had a trash story. 5 is objectively terrible
>40 hours of cutscenes
How can you defend this crap?

it didn't feel like it had that many actual cutscenes when i played
and if you count dialogue, you're retarded, it's a JRPG

I WAS BORN IN A CROSSFIRE HURRICANE

>it didn't feel like it had that many actual cutscenes when i played
and if you count dialogue, you're retarded
A good 40% of the game is repeated cutscenes and text messages. I don't mind heavy cutscene driven games like in older jrpgs or even Naughty Dog games but P5 is one of the worst examples of it I've ever seen.

It's always the P4fags making these retarded posts

>A good 40% of the game is repeated cutscenes and text messages.
If you can't handle it then maybe the game isn't for you user.
It's your fault and not the game

You can say that about literally anything in any game no matter how badly designed it is.

Not a Smash thread but I 100% agree with this as well. Thank god we'll have Hero and Banjo to counterbalance his shit inclusion

P1 = Didnt play
P2 = Didnt play
P3 = Darkest story
P4 = Comfy
P5 = Didnt care

>If you can't handle it then maybe the game isn't for you
The previous two games didn't at any point have over half an hour of straight useless exposition except maybe the intro which is there to set up the story. 5 Does it at the end of every dungeon iirc.

>P3 = Darkest story
That's Innocent Sin

>The previous two games didn't at any point have over half an hour of straight useless exposition
It did. P4 had the SoL events.
>5 Does it at the end of every dungeon iirc.
no it doesn't.

not really.

This I hate Persona 5 so much I would literally murder Hashino if I had the chance. How the fuck do you go from the Persona 4 kino to that trash is beyond me.

ROFL P4 is not only the best and quintessential Persona game, it's also the best JRPG of all time, and one of the best RPGs and best games in general of all time.

DAILY REMINDER:
THIS IS THE OBJECTIVE nuPERSONA RANKING:

4 > 3 > a piece of green dog shit > 5

I REPEAT: OBJECTIVELY

IS have a pretty happy end if you don't know about EP

Probably since P4chads are the only Persona fans with some actual taste. The rest are just edgy teens.

SMT's decline is a result of commercial failure of DDS, not financial success of P3-5

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based

No
Because one game isn’t afraid to completely murder you if you won’t play by it’s rules and you have to turn on your friends for being an alignment radical

The only is a slice of life haram anime that could remove battles altogether and people would call it an improvement

This. 4 is the best Persona games thanks to comfy setting and atmosphere

youtube.com/watch?v=SXYdgfXyYqs

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3 = the right amount of anime bullshit
4 = almost too much anime bullshit
5 = too much anime bullshit

Actually, 3 has the most anime cliche bullshit out there

Persona 3 is the only entry in the series that can be considered art. The gameplay mechanics are all intentionally tailored from the bottom up to reflect the themes of the narrative. 4 is a half-hearted rehash that lacks the context of 3. While 5 is at least a good game, it's still merely a streamlined version of 3/4 meant to appeal to the masses. 1 and 2 arent worth mentioning since they're just generic SMT drivel.

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>N-no you don't understand the gameplay sucks because the themes are deep
Kill yourself, you're no better than western cinematic dicksuckers

I don't hate you for not being able to appreciate art beyond the surface sensory level, but I do pity you.

>When will Persona and SMT fags unite and be generalised megaten chads?
This is something I don't get. Why can't we all get along? Both series are fucking awesome.

Both series have entirely different appeal.

>SMT
>VN
N-nani

Sure, that's why you would play both of them instead of being stuck playing just one series.

>Highschool friend simulator
>Art
Fuckin lmao, quit huffing your own farts and get some perspective retard

Look at this very thread and the answer becomes clear
Any discussion of Persona devolves into shitflinging over which game is superior to the others. It's either that or waifufag circlejerking.or adachifag circlejerking
On top of that most of the persona fans I know IRL mostly like the VN aspect of it rather than anything gameplay related. If I asked the average persona fan what a Press Turn was I'd likely be met with confusion.
TL:DR megaten will never be popular with the masses and SMTV never ever

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Only if you care for what both series offer. Someone who likes SMT doesn't have to like Persona and vice versa because they both appeal to different kinds of people.

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I don't know man, with the mass appeal that Persona 5 gained, I bet you SMT V is gonna do numbers. I think a ton of people are gonna try it, a lot probably won't like it, but some will. I don't think Megaten is gonna become a huge franchise in America or anything, but it's gonna have a new audience for sure.

>People seething over 4 are retarded reactionaries
Imagine my shock

>I bet you SMT V is gonna do numbers.
solely because Switchfags are so desperate for games that they will buy anything including indies

I mean, that's probably part of it, but still, many will end up getting into the series.

It's not. I can tell you for a fact it's not gonna do that well in America at least.
People liked P5 because it's a wish fulfillment anime VN with simplistic JRPG combat tacked on. The Persona audience gives not a shit about any game outside of the franchise because it doesnt meet that criteria.
I don't think the average Switch consumer is hyped for SMTV or even knows of it's (hypothetical) existence. I'd love if it did well but my hopes are literally in the fucking trash bro

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>wish fulfillment anime VN with simplistic JRPG combat tacked on.
wrong.

>The Persona audience gives not a shit about any game outside of the franchise
Smashfags don't count for the majority of the fandom.

Seriously where the fuck is SMTV, Atlus

Ironic. Your response to my post only proves my point further. The more important aspect of Persona 3 that you were unable to grasp is being able to cope with your mortality and the importance of how you spend it in your day to day life

Nigga there are tons of games and exclusives being released on the Switch. You'd be right if you said that they're desperate for RPG games. So far the best RPG on the Switch currently is XBC2 and that was back in late 2017

The move to Switch is really the death knell for the SMT franchise. Being on 3DS allowed them to pump out a ton of quality titles at minimal cost. Now the jump to HD is gonna cost even more than the jump to 3D did. I doubt they can even recycle much of Persona 5's assets given the engine change.

I don't think you're giving the hype of Persona 5 enough credit. It blew people away, even people who don't like RPG's. I think a small chunk will buy SMT V simply because it has a connection to Persona 5.

One series is PS exclusive, while the other is most on Nintendo. Console warring niggers won't allow it.

Why are you talking like this isn't the most obvious thing in the world? The game spells out it's primary theme on multiple occasions. It's not that deep.

Having a shitty gameplay experience with shitty mechanics is not worth this babby tier thematic consistency.

but 4 doesn't have mitsuru so it's worse than 3 sorry

>Console warring
Most people outside of this small little chinese nursing forum have never cared about console war nonsense. I own a playstation and a switch.

Persona 5 blew people away because it's, in my opinion, the epitome of style over substance. Everyone say this big new flashy game thats so "AESTHETIC" when it plays no better than any other Persona title. People are willing to put up with basic gameplay if the presentation is neat enough. What everyone loves about P5 is the aesthetic and the waifus, both of which SMTV will either omit or drastically differ from which Im hoping for please Kaneko come back to the series

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There is and its called Naoto

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Wellit's easy. First you make a role playing sim game where you level up your social skills to levels of a god. Then you make an RPG with pokemon mechanics only with demons andAngel's. Basically pandering to your inner teenager.

>style over substance.
Stopped reading right there

>Being a powerful demon hunter/summoner who people actively try to recruit isn't wish fulfillment
Imagine believing this.

It's still gonna bring new fans to the series.

They aren't defying death when Nyx says the only one who can kill him is the one who has to trade his life for it

Don't respond to bait retard

>all this seething ITT
Persona 5 is the best MegaTen game, there is no debating this. If you haven’t played P1 and P2, you’re not allowed to have an opinion on Persona. If you haven’t played all the mainline SMT games and most of its prominent spinoffs, then you aren’t allowed to have an opinion on SMT. I played all of these and I can tell you P5 was the most enjoyable by far.
>SMTniggers actually think their games are hard and have the nerve to be elitist about them
If you unironically found SMT to be difficult you are literally the same as soulsfaggots who jerk the game off for it’s difficulty instead of it’s actual qualities.

You can call it bait if you want, but there are a lot of people who believe Persona 5 is "style over substance".

Based Persona 5 saving the series.

May Kaneko return to us from the flower fields and deliver us from this minty fresh hell Atlus has created.

>You guys only have a month to live before my mommy kills you all if it makes you feel better you can kill me and get a silent de-
>FUCK THAT WE'RE GONNA FIGHT THAT BTICH TO THE VERY END, FUCK DEATH.

persona is not smt. Its megaten but not smt

Stop samefagging

That’s a Yea Forums drone opinion perpetuated by retards like you who literally can’t form unique individual thoughts about a game. You get your opinions from Yea Forums, I guarantee you think the game went downhill after Kamoshida too, another retarded opinion that retards who didn’t even play the game spam.

SMT came out before Pokémon, though.

Sorry for not liking Persona 5 user

He LITERALLY POINTS AT MAKOTO AND SAYS "YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN STOP ME BECAUSE YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON WHO CAN MAKE THE FINAL CALL"

>drone opinion perpetuated by retards like you
>You get your opinions from Yea Forums
I think you're confused, user. I liked Persona 5 a lot, I was simply saying that lot's of retards do think it was a shit game.

Reminder that P3fags are in constant denial of how their game has literally nothing in it and cope by pretending the story is good
And when they defend the story and gameplay, it always boils down to
>it’s supposed to be slow and shit!

>tfw the honeymoon period over 5 is over
>people now correctly see the game as a tremendous waste of time

I don't like persona because social part becomes pretty boring really fast and gameplay is tainted by randomly generated dungeons, thank god that P5 almost get rid of them, not to mention that most social links are mediocre story-wise, with some exceptions in every game

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>On top of that most of the persona fans I know IRL mostly like the VN aspect of it rather than anything gameplay related. If I asked the average persona fan what a Press Turn was I'd likely be met with confusion.
This. The real reason Persona killed SMT is that it took a franchise with so many elements that should make it successful - tons of well thought out iconic designs, enough difficulty to make sure you're paying attention, the subjectivity of different alignments and choices - and sidelined them for elements that have nothing to do with any of them.

Compare it with Pokemon. Every Pokemon game ultimately focuses on the POKEMON. They're the clear main characters. Even the most well known human character, Ash, is always associated with the most popular Pokemon species, Pikachu. Demons should be the Pokemon of SMT, but they're not. Instead, the focus is on these shallow anime archetype characters who form your party. Every main SMT element present in Persona is totally disjointed from the actual appeal of the franchise.

It's why SMT will never be big, and it's why Persona will never be a good representative of SMT.

More like contrarians who want to be edgy try and fail to attack the game. They’re repeating the same falsehood memes about the game that retards were saying two years ago

>when it plays no better than any other Persona title.
P5's dungeons shit all over 3 and 4. Even mementos, which is formatted like Tartarus with the hallway/room layout of 4's dungeons played better. The battle system introduced a lot of new mechanics, and social links actually matter outside of fusion.

Call me a contrarian all you want, but that won't stop me from only having enjoyed 5% of the time I spent with this vidcon

Outside of collecting demons, SMT is nothing like Pokemon

power fantasies and wish fulfillment are different, but similar

>power fantasy
>"one day I'm going to get strong and murder the shit out of everyone and my word will determine the outcome of the entire world"
>until then you're gonna die to random mob battles and get MATADOR'D/BEAST EYE MAKAKAJA MEGODOLA'D/etc over and over because you're nothing but a little bitch at the moment

>wish fulfillment
>"i wish i had tons of girlfriends and everyone thought I was stylish and sucked my dick over the smallest thing"
>LOOKING COOL JOKER
>LOL UR 10 GIRLFRIENDS GOT ANGRY AT YOU ON VALENTINES FOR DATING ALL OF THEM AT ONCE
>WOW UR SUCH A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE ONLY U CAN USE ALL THE ARCANA

in SMT they make a point of showing that you're a regular bitch-ass human with how easily you die, how there are others in your situation, etc. the producers themselves say how this idea of "anyone can be a hero" is at the core of SMT, hence why your ability to succeed to provided by the ability to summon demons, not the fact you're Adam's reincarnation/a half naked demon boy etc. those alone don't guarantee your success.

How the fuck do you go about playing this?

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On a hacked Xbox, probably.

>actually thinking SMT is hard
>actually thinking SMT doesn’t give you designated waifus that fall in love with you since SMT II

>until then you're gonna die to random mob battles and get MATADOR'D/BEAST EYE MAKAKAJA MEGODOLA'D/etc over and over because you're nothing but a little bitch at the moment
Just like in Persona how your social stats aren't maxed out right away and you have to level up your social links. 4 literally tells you you're too much of a pussy to say certain things at multiple points. Like being the wild card doesn't automatically guarantee your success or something

>user in /smtg/ said NINE is emulateable on PC now
GET HYPE

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>persona: spend 3 months drinking coffee and eating beef and everyone will love you
>smt: spend 30 hours actually getting stronger by fighting shit and recruiting other shit
that's literally not a challenge, that's timegated stats. in wish fulfillment games you never acquire anything by 'getting better' but just by wasting time increasing a meter. even grinding exp requires a basic understanding of the combat mechanics, social stats require less than that.

I don't get it? P5 is a mainline persona entry, the spinoffs are Q and stuff like that
Or did you mean him being in smash? I'm fucking confused

Ah luckily Persona has both. Also how does grinding social EXP not require a basic understanding of the social sim mechanics?

Imagine actually thinking P4 isn't the worst Persona, let alone this.

Oh also it doesn't make everybody love you, it opens up opportunities to make everyone love you. Just a small error there.

Persona 5 without the second half is GOAT material.

EXP is rewarded at the end of a battle. A battle has literally dozens of mechanics (damage ranges, weaknesses, press turns, your party composition, your party's skills, your stat build, the enemies you are fighting, the enemy's RNG for what moves they will use, the possibility of being ambushed or critted and how your party composition will allow you to survive this or not).

Social EXP is rewarded by deciding to spend your day one way and not another. The only trade-off is getting Courage instead of Charisma. Again, in wish fulfillment games you just 'manage time' to do anything and you'll eventually be able to do it. It doesn't require any skill or thought beyond "what do I want first, the ability to bang Yukari or Mitsuru?".

Persona is a theme park ride saying "you must be this tall to ride" except with """social stats""". SMT is hanging onto the back of a roller coaster while everyone else on it tries to push you off.

>Persona is a theme park ride saying "you must be this tall to ride" except with """social stats""". SMT is hanging onto the back of a roller coaster while everyone else on it tries to push you off.
Please stop embarrassing yourself lmao
SMT isn’t hard in the slightest.

Right. You have a limited time to meet the different gates and have to balance Social Links with social stats. You aren't expected to max everything out on a first playthrough especially in P3 meaning you won't be able to do it. So it's more like deciding whether to dungeon dive, raise charm for Makoto, do another social link that you've already unlocked, work on another gate, try to complete a minigame all within the time frame. Also Persona has EXP and battles so this is kind of a moot point. If you spend all your time social grinding and avoiding combat, you'll just get killed by the boss.

Oh that's not to say this is difficult or anything, I know how Yea Forums loves to posture, just that it's there and requires time and investment before you're a god. Just like SMT.

>It doesn't require any skill
Holy shit You're playing a fucking JRPG what "skill" is required besides picking a option.
It's also Atlus JRPG so you know those games are easy as fuck to break and abuse

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Time management is not a difficult skill. It's a no-risk investment with no failure state and you can use a guide to get it right every time. And yet it's the most important aspect of Persona.

Even grinding weaker enemies means you might die because the possibility of an ambush and enemy crits are still real.

The main appeal of Persona is how this time management - riskless, easy, time management - results in you being loved and popular. The main appeal of SMT is always overcoming some kind of difficulty (even if said difficulty is negated by spamming Sukukaja and Fog Breath hurr hurr hurr I know buffs, SMT isn't hard, thanks for the great input).

Just say you don't like the SoL aspect. You're making yourself look like a retard with these excuses.

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>Time management is not a difficult skill
Irrelevant and subjective since JRPGs aren't a difficult genre
>It's a no-risk investment with no failure state and you can use a guide to get it right every time
You can miss things so therefore there is a failure state. Also you can use a guide to break any game. How is this an argument?
>Even grinding weaker enemies means you might die because the possibility of an ambush and enemy crits are still real.
First of all, why would you ever grind? Second of all, this can happen in Persona too so I'm not sure what the point is?
>But that would only happen if you're really bad!
Yes same as dying to an ambush from weak enemies in SMT
>The main appeal of Persona is how this time management - riskless, easy, time management - results in you being loved and popular. The main appeal of SMT is always overcoming some kind of difficulty
This is again your subjective opinion. I could just as easily say the appeal of Persona is the difficulty of balancing two lives within a time limit while the main appeal of SMT is getting back at your religious parents who made you go to church through easy braindead combat. As has already been established, it's not riskless because it's very possible to miss multiple things in a playthrough (unless you use a guide and ruin it for yourself I guess). In fact, since you felt the need to use a guide, I guess that means it's not riskless and easy.

>you can use a guide to get it right every time
same with SMT.

His other self is a video game player.

The Innocent Sin Tatsuya commits is you choosing to play Eternal Punishment to know what happens on the other side. Neither of you can let go.

Wild Card status in 3 and 4 is explicitly being a protagonist since they do not have a set character but are defined by your choices. This is the same reason Yu doesn't have a shadow self, since he's not a character like others are, except in anime where he is not a vessel for player input.

In P5 the most rewarding personal stat growths (The musical note and star) are done by publically learning/working etc, making a lasting impression on others' cognition of you.

Persona is more SMT than SMT itself, they are the only games where Alice is fused by Nebiros+Belial special fusion.

DEEPEST LORE

Why are SMTfags like this?

Persona and SMT are the same shit, but the latter concentrates on atmosphere and gameplay while the former on the story and characters, now post the only universally good parts of both series, demons

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>Just say you don't like the SoL aspect
More like the focus on characters/aesthetics over content in general.

Already explained it in but Persona focusing on SoL as it's appeal makes it link to SMT pointless. No-one plays Persona for any of the SMT elements present in it. If all the combat shit was gone from Persona, its popularity would be unchanged. If it wasn't connected to SMT at all, it would still be just as popular. It's a popular socialsim franchise that happens to be a spin-off of SMT, not a successful SMT spin-off if that makes sense.

>You can miss things so therefore there is a failure state. Also you can use a guide to break any game. How is this an argument?
That's not a failure state, that's choosing to use your time in a different way. A non 100% playthrough on your first go isn't a failure state.
>Second of all, this can happen in Persona too so I'm not sure what the point is?
I'm comparing the elements relating to the main appeal of SMT and Persona.

>Also you can use a guide to break any game. How is this an argument?
>same with SMT.
No? Enemy RNG is a thing. You can't count on them using the same attacks in the same order or landing the same hits and crits/misses.

>now post the only universally good parts of both series, demons
you mean personas? sure, my favorite is "historical pirate figure william kidd except he's wearing a hoodie and headphones".

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>No-one plays Persona for any of the SMT elements present in it.
But they do. Despite all the memes Nobody plays Persona for the romance you literally can not get to it until 10-60 hours into the game and it's extremely watered down.

>That's not a failure state, that's choosing to use your time in a different way. A non 100% playthrough on your first go isn't a failure state.
Okay. But you can still fail to meet the deadline in time and get a bad end. Failure state. But this is irrelevant since you claimed it was riskless but choosing the wrong way to spend time results in missing content. Which is objectively a risk for most players of video games.

Also it seems like Persona has all the SMT appeal with an extra social layer on top of it.
>But it's easy! It's a power fantasy!
Like I said, all the SMT appeal.

Megaten was never historically accurate, but at least it's better than F*te

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t81
>If all the combat shit was gone from Persona, its popularity would be unchanged.
So fucking wrong holy shit.
P5's massive popularity came from the fact that a FF game got delayed. If it wasn't a JRPG then nobody would give a shit about it or even get localized.

>You can't use a guide to trivialize all the dungeons and get the exact right path and method of getting through it every time
Lol
>B-b-but combat is the main focus not dungeon crawling
First of all, imagine thinking this. Second of all, Persona is split between combat and social sims and you're saying the social sim part can be cheesed with a guide completely. Well so can all the dungeon navigation.

The SMT elements in the Persona games are watered down much more.

>if persona 5 wasn't persona 5 nobody would care for it
Wow user you're coping butthurt and delusional nice

Turn based gameplay isn't a "SMT element"

How is half of the game more watered down than what makes up an hour of content at most?

Sorry i meant to reply to both of you faggots

Well those elements are part of the reason why people buy the game.
Stop moving the goalpost

>>But it's easy! It's a power fantasy!
Lack of difficulty is the opposite of a power fantasy. I already explained power fantasy is about overcoming unfair odds, not about having everything handed to you on a platter. ()

>if you spend literally none of your time doing the objective you fail
considering you can easily do everything you need in a dungeon in a single day this requires an extraordinary amount of stupidity to come across if you're not going out of your way to do it. yes, you will lose the game if you don't try to win it.

>>B-b-but combat is the main focus not dungeon crawling
it literally is, it's where you recruit demons to become party members, it's what every route builds up to. even dungeons have hazards like damage floors that meaningfully affect battles, meaning an encounter after a bunch of damage floors will either result in you having less HP (if you chose not to heal each time, possibly leading to your death) or less SP (if you chose to heal each time)

I think he means it only succeeded because it fit a genre-shaped gap. Sort of like if all the full cream milk was delayed and people settled for skim milk when they would never otherwise pick it.

So there is a failure state then? Alrighty

*first three notes play*

>this requires an extraordinary amount of stupidity to come across if you're not going out of your way to do it. yes, you will lose the game if you don't try to win it.
Just like SMT.
>Lack of difficulty is the opposite of a power fantasy.
No. Endgame Nocturne is the easiest part of that game and that's what people fantasize about, not early game hard mode where a bad crit is a game over. "I wish I could rip and tear like Demifiend..."

they're clearly not, at least not to an extent that would noticably affect sales. if people bought Persona for the combat and dungeoncrawling why would they not also be buying SMT for the combat and dungeoncrawling? why does one sell millions and the other does not? it's pretty obvious from all the fan content made for Persona 5 and it's sales that the social elements are the main draw.

>literally requires you to make dozens of poor decisions before any kind of recognizable consequence
wow very tough time management

No. Endgame Nocturne is the easiest part of that game and that's what people fantasize about, not early game hard mode where a bad crit is a game over. "I wish I could rip and tear like Demifiend..."
that's LITERALLY WHAT A POWER FANTASY IS YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOT
IT'S THE PART OF THE GAME WHERE YOU GO FROM BEING EASY PREY TO KILLING EVERYTHING
No-one would give a shit about punching Lucifer in the face if it wasn't preceded by 80 hours of dying to random mobs. The contrast is what makes a power fantasy work. You recognize this and you still don't understand it. Fuck me you're dumb as hell

I don't know about that difficulty user. I'm playing P3 and i'm already getting sick of tartarus floor bosses two shoting my entire team with -dyne moves and megido.

So there is a failure state then? Unlike you, I don't pretend my toys are complex or hard so it being easy is irrelevant
>literally requires you to make dozens of poor decisions before any kind of recognizable consequence
Just like SMT

>>literally requires you to make dozens of poor decisions before any kind of recognizable consequence
>Just like SMT
saying that doesn't make it true, especially when you can lose off a single unlucky instance in battle
>crit
>smirk
>target MC again
>dead

>No-one would give a shit about punching Lucifer in the face if it wasn't preceded by 80 hours of dying to random mobs.
Well considering Nocturne is an easy game that can be easily cheesed with a guide, this didn't happen so I'm going to have to say you're wrong. Also 80 hours? Sheesh

Nocturne becomes a power fantasy at around lvl 30-40

Only happens if you're not prepared enough. Also this can happen in Persona too if you're bad.

This all is just ephemeral shit,characters and their interactions are only thing that sells Persona

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When is the Switch port coming?

and I love Makoto

>With a guide
Learning what the best builds and strategies are is the whole challenge of an RPG. Using a guide nullifies the challenge.

the power fantasy element still wouldn't work if it wasn't for the early difficulty, which the game has.

"uh actually the game is easy and i beat it in 40 hours"
yea cool for you faggot that doesn't change the argument

there is no being prepared enough against unlucky dice rolls taking apart your team
>have a team of demons that collectively (not individually) resist all elements, preventing enemies from spamming Ma-elements for tons of extra turns
>oops your null wind demon died to a crit :)
>oops mahazanma :)
>oops your team fell apart
in Persona you can't even affect your party member's resistances, only who your party members are out of a limited pool. the potential for failure is much, much lower because there is much less expected of the player in terms of combat preparation.

I'm not the one advocating using a guide to bypass things you think are hard
he is

Dungeons are watered down, the battle system is watered down, party building is watered down... Yeah, compared to SMT, the classical RPG elements are watered down for the sake of the social sim. That's not a criticism, merely an observation.

>have a team of demons that collectively (not individually) resist all elements, preventing enemies from spamming Ma-elements for tons of extra turns
>oops your null wind demon died to a crit :)
>oops mahazanma :)
>oops your team fell apart
SMT is really well balanced and this never happens. Try again.

>the power fantasy element still wouldn't work if it wasn't for the early difficulty, which the game has.
I don't know, it sounds like you're just bad user.

guides don't make battles play out the exact same way every time, user. even with someone else's strategy, actually putting it into action is a different matter. the same can't be said for social stats.

>"works on my machine :)"
cool dude just run through nocturne hard mode's intro 10 times without dying to random crits, what's your failproof strategy for that?

All guides are made with crits and misses in mind user.
So what you're saying is SMT is an unbalanced mess that kills you for no reason through no fault of your own? Why would I want to play a game like that?

>So what you're saying is SMT is an unbalanced mess that kills you for no reason through no fault of your own? Why would I want to play a game like that?
Because SMT is a power fantasy and part of a power fantasy is overcoming nigh unwinnable odds and being able to contrast the difficult, unbeatable parts of the game with the easy parts. Like Nocturne endgame.

Again, I've already explained this.

le Nocturne prepare to die...the dragon kills you on the bridge so fr*iking epic...le praise the rip and tear...

What if I'm secure in my life and don't need a power fantasy? Why is a game killing you through no fault of your ownas you yourself said here, something that should be copied? Also those situations you mentioned happen far less often than they don't happen so it's not really nigh unwinnable odds so much as mildly inconvenient occasionally.

Too kek this is what Nocturnebabies actually sound like.

>What if I'm secure in my life and don't need a power fantasy
Then you wouldn't be on a Taiwanese shitposting forum discussing Chinese computer games now, would you.

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That's a bit of a non sequitur. Though I guess the fact I'm responding to this at all shows I'm not entirely secure.

Actual SMT fans aren't, just hipster wannabes

p5 = p3 > p4

FACT

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About right.

I post tier list opinions that I know are safe because I'm desperate for approval at least somewhere

There's nothing inherently wrong with tier lists. It's only a problem when you start making charts and posting it in every thread. That's the kind of person who's desperate for approval.

Isn’t demifiend relatively weak compared to other smt protags?

Then let me clarify what I mean.
>What if I'm secure in my life and don't need a power fantasy?
Then I don't know why you'd be playing a power fantasy, and discussing it further would be pointless. I personally like making numbers go up so the enemy numbers go down faster.

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Well there's the rub. Nocturne isn't inherently a power fantasy just like Persona isn't inherently a friend simulator. I never got why Persona gets so lambasted when games like Harvest Moon and Rune Factory are the exact same thing except on a farm.
>Oh you like Animal Crossing? I bet it's because you don't have friends in real life and want to live out your fantasy of being a popular and powerful politician!
I don't play Nocturne to punch Lucifer in the face and I don't play SMT4A to le kill your friends, I play them because they're fun.

Can someone help me understand the appeal of Persona 5? This isn't bait, by the way.

Mainline SMT is still alive, it's other spinoffs that are done, and not only is Persona not the only reason for that, but Persona 3 and 4 are the ones that would have contributed to it at all, not 5.

Raidou 1's story and atmosphere are way better than Raidou 2's. It's the gameplay where it drops the ball.

>Persona isn't inherently a friend simulator
Arguably true.
>Nocturne isn't inherently a power fantasy
RPGs are inherently about becoming stronger and overcoming things you couldn't before. Whether you care for it or not, playing Nocturne means you have to accept there are enemies you cannot take on until you're strong enough. It's part of the core gameplay loop. Every time you put off a boss fight to gain another level so you can fuse the demon that will make that battle a cinch - you are buying into the power fantasy.

>Shin Megami Tensei (formerly Revelations)

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3 and 4 have a fairly fast and addictive gameplay loop. Can't help you with 5, I don't get it either.

3's tartarus is an absolute slog and 4's impossibly stale dungeons do a lot to curb the "fast, addictive gameplay."

RPGs are inherently about delivering a fun and immersive experience. Also there are low level runs of Nocturne so you never need to level grind at all.

waifus

I'd say you're right, but not because of P5's popularity. Games like P5 and Yakuza 0 boomed into popularity because they were new entries in series that already had an established following to give it attention when the new game came out while also being Japanese to appeal to the crowd that vocally likes anime but only gets involved in the most entry-level stuff and having enough quirkiness in the dialogue to take screencaps of to put on Twitter, which gives the game even more attention. SMTV has all of that going for it, Demon negotiations will be more than enough for that last part.

The kinds of retards who actually think Matador is hard will probably say something about how normalfags can't handle how dark and difficult it is, but they can. In the same way that people meme about kill your friends boyo and stuff like that with SMT already, people can do the same on a larger scale when it gets more popular. People who think the general audience can't handle that are clueless, it's not really that disturbing even at it's most fucked up in SMT, and the novelty of it and how different it is from most JRPGs is already something that appeals to many about the game, and it'll appeal to more if it gets exposed to them. There's also people just looking for games for their Switch who will give it a try even if they have no prior experience with the series.

I beat 3 and 4 in a week. 5 I had to brute force over a month and fast forward half the cutscenes.

For me it was just 3 and 4 but more of it. More "work" life balance game with dungeons that are actually good this time. Once I got partway through Madarame's palace I realized the dungeons weren't "good" they just had more going on at the surface and most of them were basically just hallways.

I would maintain that the Space Port is way worse than Tartarus and TV World even though it technically has more going on.

I beat 4 and 5 in a week and 3 was a slog for me. I still don't think of 3 as a very good game, though I respect what they were trying to do with it, even if I believe they failed in most aspects of it.

>started playing 5 at release
>still haven't beaten it

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As mentioned earlier in the thread, it's wish fulfillment for waifufags and incels.

P4 took me roughly as long to finish as P5. I just couldn't stomach P4 for long spans of time like I could P5 and, somehow, P3.

I like it because it has an addictive and unique, in the context of videogames in general, it's obviously not unique compared to other Persona games, structure that I enjoy both sides of. I have some issues with it, but in general it offers two different kinds of gameplay that complement each other well and make it easy to sink hours into it, and that makes up for some of the weaknesses those two sides of the games have for me.

I never found the spaceport that bad. My only real gripe is how uninspired the robots were throughout the hierarchy, but they're painless to blitz through. I'll still take it over Tartarus and P4.

As proven multiple times in this thread, it makes Nocturnebabies seethe

Do you have a link for this scene in undubbed version ?

I never understood how someone could look at a game like Persona 5 and be genuinely incapable of grasping what could make it enjoyable for others.

>(Formerly Shin Megami Tensei)
>(Formerly Megami Tensei)
>(Formerly Digital Devil Story)

Post MegaTen tier lists, fags

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Not the guy, but all I got is "They like reality simulation, having a group of acquaintances instead of friends and pretending to be rebels while not doing anything evil or risky." Because both story and gameplay is but routine developer decided movie cutscenes compared to 3 and even 4, since the odds are stacked so in your favor and the Jungian themes or any themes in general are wholly absent.

It's a dysfunctional game and therefore should be unenjoyable.

>That'd be 4, which isn't only the worst Persona game AND the worst SMT game, it's one of the worst JRPGs of all time.

I have played worse JRPGs than Persona 4.

Like: Cross x Edge, Arc Rise Fantasia, FF15, etc....

Catherine is a SMT game?

Shut the fuck up

Why would they need to be committing evil to be rebellious, and what precisely isn't risky about ascending and collapsing palaces, let alone the plan Joker has to perpetuate while blitzed out of his mind just to fake his death? There were some very tangible risks. The odds were no more stacked in your favor than in P4.

DDS1 and 2 were amazing though, nobody's fault the SMT fanbase is retarded.

All Persona games are flawed, if "dysfunctional." Your lack of comprehension is just narrow-mindedness.

>The odds were no more stacked in your favor than in P4.
Baton Pass, SP recovery methods, party member switch, gun skills and Futaba come to mind. I'm also speaking as a gameplay experience, not only story. However storywise the Phantom Thieves are in control and choose where to go (in the beginning before they get in trouble and get a timer placed on their heads.) unlike 4 where they have to go after the kidnapped. The story also shows what's going on behind the scenes to the player and Goro reveals his hand from the get-go. So for the player it's routine, since s/he knows what to expect. As such the revelations to the party feel like needless melodrama, like a play. Also the characters should be doing risky things to show that they're at the outskirts of society and not be so squeaky clean.

They are certainly flawed (and formulaic/repetitive), but the others have singular purposes they seek to achieve. 4 is a mystery story (thus it centers on truth), even the boredom is congruent with the setting, 3 is about the Tarot and a life journeys dealing with death and 2 is an actual RPG with the nitroglyserin of plot devices with rumors. 5 is just stuff that happened.

And yes, perhaps I'm narrowminded about what games should be, since I was raised by Elf on the Amiga, a game that relentlessly wanted you dead. If the game is no longer a game and instead something you're deliberately (and not accidentally) meant to win, I think it's dysfunctional.

The point was that their peers or loved ones wrongfully persecuted them, not that they were all delinquents in their day-to-day life. There's no need to do anything risky beyond the metaverse, since that would jeopardize themselves and the group. The control that the Phantom Thieves were convinced they had was precisely what led to them being manipulated into targeting Okumura, framed, and erased from reality, if only for a short while.

You can distil an awful lot of games to "stuff that just happened," really. I didn't mind P5's message of mobilizing against society's tendency to let a flagrantly flawed system slide. From a Japanese perspective, I'm sure it's a lot more poignant.

>Catherine is a SMT game?
Honorary Megami Tensei game. May as well have it under that considering it was done by the P-team.