The Hunters have come to our aid, Arbiter. They will fight by our side

the covenant isn't a single entity. there are many different sects within it

*both get BTFO by brute shot*

So the story got changed all because of dumbasses who forgot 2?

>A story with a clear reveal of being larger than what is contained is the only thing that worked
Based retard.

Why are Halo 2 and Contact Harvest considered masterpieces?

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Whoops, meant for

If your hunters die, you're doing a shit job

Factions but also things like Grunts and Hunters just stayed with whomever their commander was at the time of the Schism. So if they were led by a brute they just stuck with him

That was such an awesome moment having a powerful enemy become your ally. I especially loved having the Grunts with me too and giving them the best weapons to see how many could make it to the end of the level.

Shame about that all being hand waved away in the beginning of Halo 3. Would have been nice to have it continue in an early level before that faction split shit happened so the player actually experiences it rather than hears about it in a throwaway line.

Yes. The same reason the antlion tunnels were cut down in complexity in HL2 Episode 2. Playtesters are oblivious morons.

>It was an obvious balance choice in 2, but what was the canon reason for hunters flip flopping back to the Covenant in Halo 3?

it's because Hunters (and to some extent, Grunts) are really interesting enemies and they bring more gameplay value to the table as an enemy than as an ally. So Bungie decided to make them enemies again.

Bungie also regretted bringing back the flood in Halo 2. So Bungie decided to leave them at the end of Halo 3's campaign (Cortana/High Charity and Halo).

Here's the ViDoc. From the Bungie Video Vault, archived for your viewing pleasure. Reminisce about the lead up and launch of Halo 3: youtube.com/watch?v=WPOlLH8p8u8

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I wonder how consistently good games are trainwrecked by the devs getting a mob of paste eating retards to do the testing. Any time I've ever heard a dev talking about their testers was when they were talking about having to completely eviscerate mechanics and/or puzzles because the testers, when confronted with a round hole and several different shaped pegs, will do literally everything but insert the round peg

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No, you're thinking of Valve playtesters. Halo 3 wasn't even supposed to exist in the first place, Halo 2 was unfinished. It's not as if they were going to create an entire game that lacks enemy Hunters, especially one that features friendly Hunters alongside an invincible Arbiter NPC.

Not just playtesters. Early Halo 2 reviews complained about the confusion and players killing their alien allies because they couldn't be arsed into watching a cutscene or paying attention to indicators/context/dialogue during gameplay

>No, you're thinking of Valve playtesters. Halo 3 wasn't even supposed to exist in the first place, Halo 2 was unfinished. It's not as if they were going to create an entire game that lacks enemy Hunters, especially one that features friendly Hunters alongside an invincible Arbiter NPC.

Here is the original ending for Halo 2.

youtube.com/watch?v=4Fn8FI5thQo

Marty still has the recordings of the original ending, before they had to rewrite it (Sir... finishing this fight.)

*Carries you through the level on LASO*

GRGRGE BVGRGGXXR RRRVVVRGE

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Bungie said they removed everything but friendly elites because players were retarded and killed their allies in Halo 2 all the time because alien = bad

Idk, Halo 3 was fucking great. I don't know if I'd sacrifice 3's existence for the original rendition of 2.
There should have been a Halo 2 Director's cut, though as a "what if" release.

Halo 2's cut levels:

>Covenant Ship

After opening the airlock of the Cairo Station's docking bay, the player would be blasted toward the Covenant ship and boarded it instead of destroying it with the bomb. This level would have involved infiltrating the Covenant ship, taking on and killing its crew and eventually stealing a Wraith and end up destroying the ship by bombarding its power core with the Wraith's mortar.

As mentioned by Joseph Staten, Miranda Keyes and her ODSTs would have also been onboard the ship in order to help you and may have played a big role in the eventual outcome. This level however was cut due to time constraints and replaced by a cinematic that created "just as much work" for Bungie Employees

>Forerunner Tank

The level was only revealed on the Halo 2 cutscene commentary contained in the Halo 3 Legendary Edition's Halo 2 cinematics commentary. The purpose of the level was to tie in plot between the end of the level Regret and the cutscene after the end of the level Quarantine Zone. The level was said to be placed after the cutscene in Quarantine Zone where the Arbiter is pushed down the index chamber by Tartarus and before the cutscene where the Arbiter meets the Master Chief and talks to the Gravemind. This level was supposed to be the Gravemind's introduction; in the level, the Gravemind's tentacles were going to slam down all around the player, and move behind doors like racing freight trains.

halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=25650

>High Charity

The geometry for a trench run at the end of forerunnership (sorry, can't remember the shipping name) that involved massive, horizontal grav-lift transporters that you could drive a Warthog into and through. We had to cut it because there was just no time to set up all of the encounters.

youtube.com/watch?v=tNhVX02yioU

My dad had a problem with this, but it was also because our TV was super dark even on the highest brightness. He couldn't tell the elite allies were his buddies

They were brought back as enemies for sake of gameplay, but I'm sure they could have done both. A civil war divides individuals down to a personal level, I'm sure it'd be fine to have allied and enemy Hunters. But Halo 3, like the rest of the series, was a rushed game.

I would have rather have seen a Gravemind fight, especially in the scene after the death of Truth

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The Halo 3 legendary DVDs with commentaries also have some info on these levels. Kid me would have fucking loved Covenant Ship and Forerunner Tank, as well as the fight on board the Key Ship

> But Halo 3, like the rest of the series, was a rushed game.
Bungie is fucking awful with project planning and management. They even mention in interviews that they spend 90% of dev time fucking around, making the tech, pitching ideas and when Microsoft came breathing down their necks, they tried to piece what they had into a coherent game scrapping most of what they spent time making because there's no way to implement it correctly.

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Each Hunter is actually like millions of little worms that form together to make a functioning body with a working brain. Each individual hunter or scarab is like a part person and part colony/city. As such many have their own agenda, opinions, and alignment. However when a single colony grows too large it may split and the corresponding two individuals share a greater bond to each other than to other individuals. This is also why hunters are often deployed in pairs.

It's my favorite series, but I admit it is flawed. As dear to my heart as Halo 3 is, for example, it's shot through with plot holes.

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Let me ask you a question, do you honestly think a Halo game would be fun without the Grunts or Hunters being enemies of the players because the Brutes weren't fun to fight in Halo 2?

Also, remember they were sort of domesticated/engineered by the Forerunners as weapons against the flood. Shame 343 supposedly forgot that. We could have gotten different Lekgolo configurations and suits prancing around.

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>Level 09: The Ark

As explained by O'Donnell, the original Halo 2 ending saw Master Chief returning to Earth, finding the Ark of the Covenant, teaming up with the Arbiter, and then working with him to defeat the Prophet of Truth. O'Donnell claims that the voice actors even recorded lines for this original, conclusive ending, but ultimately time constraints meant that Bungie had to cut the ending short.

>Halo 2's Arbiter Introduction

the original plan was to start in first person with full movement and camera control. You would have been sitting in a jail cell and then have been able to melee attack the Brutes as they unlocked your cell etc.

The Brutes would have overpowered you as the Jackals in the next cell jeered—and then would have dragged you down the hall with full camera control. The cinematic would have started in frame two, as you exited through the doorway.

Ultimately this proved too complex and also we decided that the best moment to “become” the Arbiter was when you landed at the heretic base and activated your energy sword for the first time.

twitter.com/joestaten/status/1067193426964230144

>Halo 2 Alpha with 343 Industries developers Sean Cooper (kornman/kornman00), Brian Jarrard, and Frank O'Connor

Bungie mentioned having to scale back the sizes of levels from what they intended.

youtu.be/Qp86KNbeCA8

>Behind the Scenes: Making of Halo 2

Marcus Lehto: "Exploring huge environments ten times the size of Halo 1."

youtube.com/watch?v=0q69Msy8ttM

>Halo 2 Cinematics Commentary by: Project Lead Jason Jones, Writer, Director of Cinematics Joseph Staten, Composer, Audio Director Martin O'Donnell

"There was a covenant-sabotage expedition to take away the human pistol because it was just too good"

youtube.com/watch?v=sBi_xx26ClM

>Halo 2: Max Hoberman dishes on Halo 2's crazy development
youtube.com/watch?v=9BURsPjNKck

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>Bungie's rushed Halo games (Halo CE-3) are better than their completed Halo games (Halo ODST and Reach)
How does this shit happen?

I forget, did they ever explain what happen to Little Shop of Horrors dude?

They only show his tentacles in Halo 3 because people complained he looked stupid in Halo 2.

>there are manlets ITT right now that are smaller than Kig-Yar

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They were excited about making the games. By ODST and Reach they were fed up and wanted to move on, so the enthusiasm was gone, more duty than passion into those projects.
So much shit went wrong in the Cortana level.
>Anal sphincter doors
>Telepathic interruptions of gameplay
>No boss fight
>No visible Gravemind
>Atmosphere isn't eerie or unsettling, too bright, despite being inside a living sea of corpses and the center of a genocidal infestation
The Chief's reunion with Cortana was a nice cutscene, though. Also, having Arby come pick you up when solo was a nice touch.

It's a shame that Halo 2 would have been more gameplay-oriented with more development time like with Halo CE and Halo 3.

They're still huggable.

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What did we get as a result? Really bad in-game pause scenes.

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>So much shit went wrong in the Cortana level.

Originally, the level had a proper "High Charity" geometry completely different from the geometry seen inside the Flood-infested cruiser in Floodgate. The player had to follow Cortana's footprints to know where to go. As to why Cortana would be able to leave such footprints, Bungie designer Dan Miller likened the situation to her mysterious appearance in the closing cutscene of The Covenant. Once Cortana was rescued, the player was to encounter a Scarab with damanged hind legs. The Chief would have to insert Cortana so she could take control of it. Then, the Gravemind would appear and a battle between him and Cortana's Scarab would ensue. The Chief would have to hold his position on the Scarab by fending off invading Flood forms and shooting off the Gravemind's tentacles that would try to latch on the Scarab. Eventually, the entire level —including its specific High Charity geometry— had to be cut from the game's development.

As a replacement for the deleted Cortana level, Floodgate was split into two distinct levels, the latter part of the mission becoming the new Cortana level.

halopedia.org/Cortana_(level)#Production_notes

"Had to be cut from the final game" sounds like "you need a root canal" or "you have no tax return, but you do have tax debt."

since the covenant is basically space muslims, it stands to reason that with the death of the prophets that all the factions underneath split apart again and started warring with each other

This is why I'm happy Halo Infinite is getting more development time, Halo under both Bungie and 343 always had too little development time that all the awesome stuff always ended up getting cut, it hurts.

I don't think Bungie knew how to properly show Cortana's rampancy or the Gravemind or this was because of time constraints because the original plan was seeing Cortana's ghost with no gameplay interuptions.

>Halo 3 Guardian Forest: a planned level in Halo 3's campaign

A piece of concept art showed the Guardian as a deep green, angular machine-like object with a single glowing red eye at the top. It appeared to be a Forerunner construct and was reminiscent of an upside-down sword. According to Murray, you were able to fight the Guardian in the original level and could rip out its laser eye for use as a weapon.

According to Art of Halo 3, "The Guardian evokes memories of Compilers (from one of Bungie's previous games, Marathon) and the robes of a High Court Judge - which is fitting because, as anyone who has encountered them can tell you, their judgments are swift and final, and their logic utterly alien."

But the removal of Guardian wasn't the only change Bungie made to the Halo 3 campaign during the middle of the production process. The Cortana mission, which takes place inside the Covenant capital city of High Charity, was once two separate (and considerably shorter) missions. Tsavo Highway, a vehicle heavy level in the Halo 3 campaign, was also originally longer and was also chopped to meet production schedules.

>Halo 3 Singleplayer maps:
-005_intro (Arrival) - 120mb
-010_jungle (Sierra 117) - 267mb
-020_base (Crow's Nest) - 338mb
-030_outskirts (Tsavo Highway) - 302mb
-040_voi (Voi/The Storm) - 334mb
-050_floodvoi (Floodgate) - 335mb
-070_waste (The Ark) - 358mb
-100_citadel (The Covenant) - 427mb
-110_hc (High Charity/Cortana) - 239mb
-120_halo (Halo) - 330mb
-130_epilogue (Epilogue) - 118mb

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVERY TIME!!!!!! I still love the Halo trilogy though.

>Covenant are space Muslims
>Modern political correctness has Muslims as a protected class
No wonder nu-Halo is so shit.
It's simply not going to have that magic and sense of wonder/mystery 1-3 had without key members from the original dev team. Regardless of Jones, Staten and O'Donnel's shortcomings, they gave Halo most of its soul.

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t. doesn't play on legendary

Git gud
>No Sentinel Guardian and other obscure, ancient Forerunner constructs to encounter and fight.

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Did Halo CE and 2 really need remakes? I mean looking at the cutscenes just makes me feel like they wasted time since to me, Halo CE and 2 still look good, it's honestly how I feel about Metroid and Metroid II, they don't look as good but I still have fun playig them and their remakes kind of take away what was so special about them.

Who else cheeses the Tartarus fight with the Banshee?

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If they ever do show up again they'll probably have a different name.

If you ask me? No. Graphics fidelity ages, but art style is eternal. Halo CE, 2 and 3 have a simple, yet iconic art style that looks good because it isn't trying to be realistic.
At best, they just need unlocked framerates, higher resolutions and improved lighting.

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>not taking the spectre and making a squad of johnsons

>Did Halo CE and 2 really need remakes? I mean looking at the cutscenes just makes me feel like they wasted time since to me, Halo CE and 2 still look good, it's honestly how I feel about Metroid and Metroid II, they don't look as good but I still have fun playig them and their remakes kind of take away what was so special about them.

Only Halo CEA is bad.

>based on the Halo PC port
>using assets from Halo 3 and Halo: Reach to save time/money
>no multiplayer, system link or XBOX LIVE until MCC
>halo: reach multiplayer only included the anniversary maps when it should have included all of them like Halo 3: Mythic

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VIEN come post some of your elite Lewds in /hg/ right now we miss you

H2A elite hooves > Reach elite sausage toes

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H2A uses the Vista port over the Xbox version.

Agreed

Kornman already fixed the bugs so it's not as bad as HCEA.

Link me, I'm lazy.

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yeah but theyre all hunchbacked so i'm taller (for now)

*doesn't block your path because it got cut from the game*

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>TFW just 6'2
So close...

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I refuse to share posting space with those who acknowledge halo 4 and 5.

Good, you'll fit right in

Don't worry, it will probably block your path in Infinite.

Don't the flood start making Hunter forms in 3 though? Or is that a bunch of pods or infected flesh just merging together?

I did it too as a kid, I shot the Hunters and it took me a while to realize they weren't fighting back.

The pure forms? They're not from infected hosts. Just accumulated biomass merged to fulfill combat roles. It's why they don't disintegrate or break down when you kill them.

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Flood Tanks are Pure Forms. As the name implies, they aren't created from infected bodies, just pure biomass.

The arcade game at Dave & Busters brought these guys back and I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing

I thought brutes were bigger than elites?

They are this guy just messed with the images to make them look shorter.

I have never heard anyone call Contact Harvest a masterpiece.

>Parents didn't let me get on Xbox live during Halo 2's heyday because they thought my Xbox would get a virus
>Never got in on Halo 2 multiplayer

What did I miss?

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They're not, you overrate Joe Staten too much.

Play Halo 2: Project Cartographer and find out

An actual community, where people actually talked to each other.

>be poor when I was a kid
>could never afford xbl
>missed out on h2/h3 multiplayer
>just kept replaying campaign over and over again

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By the time of the multiplayer beta in June 2004, the final campaign level structure was in place. Here are the levels from the build shown with the accompanying descriptions:

Earthcity: Pursue the Covenant through a human city.
AlphaGasGiant: Go to Alpha Halo, find the Heretics and destroy their base.
AlphaMoon: Assault the occupied control room and find the oracle.
DeltaTemple: Warp to Delta Halo and assassinate the Prophet.
SentinelHQ: Breach the sentinel quarantine.
DeltaControlRoom: Start the revolution and recover the sacred icon.

This is almost assuredly after the big refocus, so after a bunch of stuff was cut. Covenant Ship, Forerunner Tank, and the ending are all already gone. However, I'm fairly certain that "alphamoon" is a cut level. That name has been floating around for years and years, but as far as I'm aware the only information on the level came from a UI demo video from spring 2004. In it, Dave Candland, UX designer at Bungie, goes to send Marty a saved film from a campaign level called "Alpha Moon."

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"Alpha Moon" is almost assuredly the MP map Burial Grounds, which was supposed to be a campaign mission

Also some of the MP maps were supposed to be campaign missions.

>Burial Mounds
>District
>Terminal
>Turf
>Sanctuary

Look at the height indicators. Elites slightly over 8 feet and brutes are 9 feet.

There's also that cut/unreleased Halo 4 ViDoc that the guy who shot it eventually quietly put onto his portfolio.

>HALO 4: REBUILDING AN ICON
youtube.com/watch?v=pM9yqsWBJaE

danchosich.com/halo4fulldoc

>One of the earlier ones that Holmes recalls was when the team completed a small piece of the Halo experience that he described as a "very traditional" Halo. User research showed that people thought it was a lot of fun, and it showed that the team was capable of making a Halo game that was true to what the series was about.

>343 scrapped it, Holmes says, as it was too traditional. But that first build showed the new team that this amalgamation of different studio cultures could work together and achieve a common goal.

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Went to Outpost Orlando.
Elite was around 8'2" (avg height 7'4"-8'6").
The Brute was just above 9.

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Lots of glitching. Kids complaining about you hacking when their ping spiked. Lots of swearing. You made lots of friends too.
Also, lots of imagination in custom games and by lack of game tools, people would honorably respect made up game rules.

>ViDoc
They were 100% aware of what they were doing

>Bungie's rushed Halo games (Halo CE-3) are better than their completed Halo games (Halo ODST and Reach)
That's wrong though. Halo 2 is an unfinished turd and Halo 3 was only good because of the community.

>Halo 2
>Masterpiece
No.
>Halo Combat Evolved
>Masterpiece
Yes.

l4d2 was gimped. there was supposed to be a randomized hedge garden maze, much more diverse gravestone layouts and a plethora of other random elements that would have improved replayability even more substantially

>we didn't get that Librarian in the final game

Shut the fuck up, 343baby.

i still wonder what it would've been like if halo 2 had been delayed a year to serve as a 360 launch title

that's gay user

Someone once claimed that Bungie always had a contract for 3 Halo games, so even if Halo 2 was released in its original form, a third Halo game would have still been a thing.

Through the dev commentaries and comments by ex devs over the years, they've alluded to plot elements related to their Halo 2 "I love Bees" ARG campaign with the corrupted AI and the Cortana letters.

It's also been said Cortana's cutscene with the Gravemind at the end of Halo 2 was always meant to be there even in Halo 2's original form, so I wonder if they were planning to do something with Cortana's rampancy before everything had to be scrapped and rewritten.
Personally, I think they were planning to kill off Master Chief in Halo 2's ending. Marty has all the recordings, and supposedly Miranda's original performance in that ending was really emotional, but it's been said he'd never release them. He gave that interview on Halo 3 just being Halo 2's ending, but I think he's held back a lot of information.

The question is what were scrapped concepts and what was actually meant to be in that original ending.

>Personally, I think they were planning to kill off Master Chief in Halo 2's ending. Marty has all the recordings, and supposedly Miranda's original performance in that ending was really emotional, but it's been said he'd never release them. He gave that interview on Halo 3 just being Halo 2's ending, but I think he's held back a lot of information.

I read something about Miranda betraying Master Chief (strapping a bomb to him an pushing him down a hole) but I don't know whether that was a cut plot point rather than part of the final act.

>The story for Halo 2 grew out of all the elements that were not seen in Halo: Combat Evolved. Jason Jones organized his core ideas for the sequel's story and approached Staten for input. According to Staten, among the elements that did not make it to the finished game was a "horrible scene of betrayal" where Miranda Keyes straps a bomb to the Master Chief's back and throws him into a hole; "Jason was going through a rather difficult breakup at the time and I think that had something to do with it," he said.

I will always be happy Halo 2 was never finished.

Yeah Joe's said in those commentaries that at one point at least, there was a sub plot about Miranda betraying him, verbatim "arc welding a thermo-nuclear bomb to his back" and having Miranda's ODSTs backing him into a hole to destroy the Gravemind and then throwing down SMGs after him (pic related?).

But was that always meant to be part of the original ending, or was it just a scrapped plot line? Because even earlier in Halo 2's development it's almost as if they replaced it with Tartarus betraying Thel, and that would have been before cutting the Forerunner Tank level out of the progression.

So it could be that they're talking about entirely separate iterations of Halo 2's development.

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Dual Wielding was a shitty gimmick that basically eliminated every dual wieldable weapon besides the plasma pistol and maybe the needler from the sandbox entirely. From what I hear it was a fucking nightmare to code as well; imagine how much more shit they could have fit into Halo 2 if they had just cut that shitty mechanic that actively made the game worse and focused on including some of the more egregious cut content like the Forerunner Tank or the fucking ending.

Joe didn't get his way with making most of the Heretic camp all Hunters. (easy identification; too many 'areas' to aim at)

Was Halo 4 Onyx Bungie's idea or 343's?

Serendipitous perhaps?

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Fucking kino
youtube.com/watch?v=8F7OgOCzph4

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alpha moon = burial grounds makes sense

But I think that some of those MP maps were just MP maps made with campaign or campaign-like textures, they weren't all made to be campaign locations

Why the fuck is a Sergeant in charge of entire military operations? I would not trust a 20 year-old to decide whether or not we're going to fight in the world's most populated city.

Spec-Ops Sergeant

that thing is so ominous looking compared to halo 5s floating pieces monstrosity.

>dude, legos, neon and floaty bits lmao
fuck 343

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>Is that a fucking Hell Knight?

So who's idea was it?

It's an automobile...

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Bonjour Twingo

does someone at 343i have a fetish for teeth?

obviously being payed by Colgate

god this is so fucking dated
literally compare this shit design to anything in halo 3

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I never watch cutscenes in vidya so when this mission started I immediately tried killing the covenants near you, it never even occured to me that vidya would have you controlling the enemies, what a real braintwister.

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>Was Halo 4 Onyx Bungie's idea or 343's?

343. During production, Halo 4 was given the codename "Halo Onyx"

>simple, clutter-free design that evokes a sword and a shield, evoking the "medieval" feel Forerunner shit was supposed to have while still looking utilitarian and imposing, something you wouldn't want to be on the other side of
>generic big bad robot design, overly cluttered with pointless bullshit, not at all angular like most forerunner designs, does not include any aesthetic that one would associate with "guardian" like the shield shape of the original design, has a face making it more relatable, less alien, and thus, less intimidating, pointless glowing neon lights everywhere further diluting its fear factor
Why is 343 so completely and utterly unable to concept basic facets of design?

343, hence why it required a series of books to utterly retcon and rape all existing Forerunner lore

Imagine putting your dick into her. Haha :)

was it ever explained in game why the spartans from the old books are just back now? or is that in another fucking book somewhere

What is with them and the fucking books, I know the books were done by Microsoft and 343 are Microsoft but god damn, this is why Halo 4 and especially Halo 5 is so damn disjointed and now they finally realized that with Infinite to keep the bookshit out of the games. I can already tell they were orignially going to force Blue Team in Halo 4 but moved it to Halo 5.

>red dot sight in halo
isnt that utterly pointless because of the way weapons link up with soldiers huds?

They needed a trilogy of books because they wanted to turn the Forerunner into a generic ancient evil but wanted to justify it somehow

No, because many regular marines don't have a HUD on their armor, plus there are also likely other groups that would like their weapons to be usable by non-military personnel. Also Halo 5 has ADS because 343 are hacks
However it does look like shit compared to the sight on the SMG in ODST.

They could have done that without the books, the idiots.

343 is full of people who hate Halo.

ODST > 5 > 4 > Reach > 2 >>> 3 > 1

Thoughts?

I think you used the wrong symbol. > means greater than, not less than. Also ODST is significantly better than the dumpster fires that are 4 and 5 and I'd argue it's better than reach too

1 has the best aesthetic, but 3 is a strong contender

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>> means greater than
I know, and that doesn't change my rankings. What are your thoughts?

Remember when you had to read the Forerunner Trilogy and Kilo-Five trilogy before playing Halo 4?

>Authors Greg Bear and Karen Traviss join 343's Frank O'Connor, Kevin Grace, Dan Ayoub, Dennis Ries and Alison Stroll to talk about the future of the Halo franchise.

>"It plays like Halo," creative director Josh Holmes said. "It sounds simple but that was really important to us. As a team we were brought together by this love for this universe and this play experience, and we wanted to maintain the core of that magical Halo feel.

>"You've lived with the Forerunner for 10 years now, and three, four games. What do we do to move it forwards so it still connects the player with a mystery but it hasn't fallen into the abstraction that will happen over that period of time? There's a lot of push there."

>The books in question, collectively referred to as the Forerunner Saga, chronicle details about the Forerunner race, including their interaction with a space-faring society of humans that existed all those years ago. As the novels have often been scheduled to have relevance to the current game releases, it’s likely that this current run of books about the Forerunner race will be central to fully understanding the world presented in Halo 4.

>books about the Forerunner race will be central to fully understanding the world presented in Halo 4.

youtube.com/watch?v=TNDQN7nwZlw

That was so fucking stupid.

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Oh, I assumed you had the list flipped because the only people who would actually put Halo 4 and 5 above any other videogame would be people with brain damage.

343baby

They wanted to completely gut and alter everything about Halo lore and doing so in one game would be extremely difficult

kill yourself

>first thing 343i did was utterly ruin the forerunners
still mad. the idea of being able to fight forerunner soldiers is stupid too, 343gs basically called the mark v armour complete shit compared to forerunner suits.

I pretty much understood most of H4's plotpoints without the books (had only read up to the ones written while Bungie was in charge) and just playing the games with the terminals from CEA, 3, Waypoint and 4. Out of the new shit, I only read Bear's trilogy which helped sort the rest out. Still, 343 went full fucking retard exposing the Forerunners, explaining everything and removing any and all sense of mystery.
>Thoughts?
You're baiting.

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>Literally because playtesters are retards.
It seems like every game suffered due to this. At least, the ones that were playtested.

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If you had the choice, would you remove or keep the "Combat Evolved" moniker for Halo?

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remove it
there's literally no reason for it being there other than to make Halo sound "he**a fr**king epic!! xD"

The real name of the game is just Halo. "Combat Evolved" is only on the box art.

>Jaime Griesemer: At the time, Microsoft marketing thought Halo was not a good name for a videogame brand. It wasn't descriptive like all the military games we were competing with. We told them Halo was the name. The compromise was they could add a subtitle. Everyone at Bungie hated it. But it turned out to be a very sticky label and has now entered the gaming lexicon... so I guess in hindsight it was a good compromise. But the real name of the game is just Halo.

halo.bungie.org/haloupdates/allupdates.html

Why the hell haven't we gotten another game in the perspective of the Covenant again?

Halo Wars 2?

wheres the fucking beta
>inb4 in the mirror
yea i know now wheres the beta for the game

Keep. Bungie accepted that MS made them add the subtitle because "Halo" sounded unexciting and oddly sanctimonious, it didn't give off the action game vibe they wanted to title to portray. Still, I like it.

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Agreed

Remove it, it sounded kind of stupid.

Never played it. Is it any good? Not that big of a fan of RTS games, but I enjoyed Homeworld: DoK a fair bit if it's at all similar.

It's shit.

>blow up high charity in halo 3
>actually it didnt blow up at all according to halo wars 2
they really cant help themselves can they?

1) Retards start shooting the aliens as soon as they're on screen.
2) People want to play exclusively as Captain King
3) The louder (albeit small) portion of people who wanna play as aliens are fucking furfag xenophiles pushing their shit fetishes

This is why I ignore spin-offs, I'm still pissed that Halo Wars had the UNSC and Covenant fight the Flood earlier and then destroyed the Arbiter armor, if the armor got destroyed on that shield world, how did Arby use it in Halo 2, fuck spin-off games, they never feel like they fit with the mainline games just as much as the books.

isnt halo wars in the past

Because the larger fanbase doesn't want it and the ones that do are small mentally ill furries.

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To be fair, Ensemble had pitched a console RTS to MS, who demanded they adapt it to Halo lore and assets in limited time. They also had little to no help or guidance from Bungie because they were salty the franchise was being whored out. T

1 is yes. 2 is like at the same time as halo 5 or a bit after? it has one of those stupid guardians in it.

God, Microsoft were really stupid during that era.

shit, I just like the alien technology and military dynamic but once again furries weasel their way into another fanbase and ruin it with their weird shit. Not like I expect a big title but something like ODST would be pretty cool.

>God, Microsoft were really stupid during that era.

Did you forget about Halo 5?

>Were
Not to defend 343, but they were also behind a fuckload of the terrible design decisions behind Halo 4 and 5

2 is better then CE in almost every way

To begin with, the core gameplay is better. Movement and jumping is more responsive, aiming is tighter, the gameplay is faster, etc. The MP map design is also a slight improvement, both have the same design philsophies to their map design but 2 has more solid levels then CE did.

The writing/story is inarguably better: CE barely had a plot, with most of it being an excuse to justify mission transitions. Dialog had medicore delivery, there's barely any dynamic animation in cutscenes, and all the characters are cardboard cutouts. 2 actually has multiple narrative threads, characters that undergo development, real animations during cutscenes, symbolic framing, etc. If you PREFER a minimalist story, that';s fine, but don't act like it's better.

in terms of the campaign missions, 2 is a clear improvement and it baffdles me people think otherwise. People often argue that CE has "less linear" levels then 2, but The only non-linear level in CE is mission 2, which just plops 3 playspaces around the map and then has a giant, empty ass field with nothing in it between the 3. All that's gained from it's nonlinearity is which order you do each objective, wheras what you give up having any sort of good level design overall.

Beyond that, what people mean is that CE ostensibly has more large combat spaces then 2 does, but 2 has just as many and most are just as big, the only difference is 2 actually has buildings, trees, cliffs, rocks, and other structures inside those spaces to make the level design interesting, wheras in CE they are all mostly empty: which is bad since due to the geometry is always the same, the way you approach encounters is the same/doesn't matter, vs 2's more differing layouts and geometry means different encounters. And nearly all of CE's campaign suffers from the same copy pasted repetitive coirdodor shit for indoor spaces that the malgined arbiter levels do in 2.

All CE has over 2 is weapon balance

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>dialogue in halo 2 implied the arbiter armour is old as fuck
>turns out they just make the arbiter armour shit on purpose
the whole mausoleum of the arbiter cutscene in halo 2 made me think they retrieve the remains of each arbiter.

They're fucking obnoxious.

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That was still a part of that era, they were going to whore Halo 4 out to Gearbox and just as much as Bungie were tired of their shit, Bonnie Ross was as well and took the series her self and built a team, when 343 presented Microsoft with a Halo 4 verticle slice that looked and played like a Halo game, Microsoft got mad and told them to follow trends, after Halo 4 they wanted them to add a diversity team over Chief and even went as far as waned them to push it further with an Osiris ODST like game, 343 had enough and told them to fuck off, let them make Halo 6 and give them more development time and next gen because 343 wanted Halo 4 to be an Xbox One launch game.

This because Microsoft didn't want Halo 4 to look like Halo. This is what the Marines originally looked like.

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Stop being fucking morons. Both 4 and 5 have shit stories but the idea that you "need the books to understand them" is bullshit

4 in particular outright explains more about itself then LITTERALLY ANY OTHER HALO GAME.

In CE, you are just kicked into the midst of things with zero explanation of what the UNSC is, who the covenant is, what Reach was, who Cortana, Keyes, or MC is, and you are just expected to learn shit as you go. And half the shit you don't even ever really get answers to: You pick up that keyes is the captain obviously and that cortana is a smartass AI who can hack into stuff, and you know that the covenant hates humans, but you never get any sort of insight into what the UNSC or the covenant really are or what reach is beyond human faction, alien factor, and planet respective.y

In 2, similarly, you aren't really told anythjing about Hood, Miranda, the Prophets, Half jaw or Tartarus; other then Hood being admiral and miranda being Keye's daughter. You infer the prophet's role, half jaw and tarteruses totally via just watching shit play out. The only "explained" character is the Arbiter. 3 doesn't really introduce shit, and ODST and Reach both more or less follow these same models of giving you the bare minumum and having you pick shit up as you go.

If you JUST play 4's campaign and not Spartan Ops or watch the terminals, then 4's new characters and ideas are just as self evident if not moreso: A throwaway lijne is given to you to justify the covenant's involvement, Cortana explains the didact and promethains briefly, then the librarian herself showsup and outright fucking explains shit about the Didact, promethians, requeim, and the composer. And then if you do Spartan Ops you get even MORE info on the covenant faction and the promethians and the terminals do the same but also for the didact and librarian.

The problem isn't book reliancy, the problem is just shit writing.

>it's this guy again

>humanity getting all cozy with the aliens that helped to kill 22 billion people
its one thing that always hasnt sat right with me. realistically the vast majority of humanity would despise the elites.

>2 is better then CE in almost every way

Defend dual wielding

except high charity IS fucking half destroyed in Halo Wars 2

*was

Why does Halo 5 get shit on so much?

>In CE, you are just kicked into the midst of things with zero explanation of what the UNSC is, who the covenant is, what Reach was, who Cortana, Keyes, or MC is, and you are just expected to learn shit as you go. And half the shit you don't even ever really get answers to: You pick up that keyes is the captain obviously and that cortana is a smartass AI who can hack into stuff, and you know that the covenant hates humans, but you never get any sort of insight into what the UNSC or the covenant really are or what reach is beyond human faction, alien factor, and planet respective.y

Read Halo: Fall of Reach

>In 2, similarly, you aren't really told anythjing about Hood, Miranda, the Prophets, Half jaw or Tartarus; other then Hood being admiral and miranda being Keye's daughter. You infer the prophet's role, half jaw and tarteruses totally via just watching shit play out. The only "explained" character is the Arbiter. 3 doesn't really introduce shit, and ODST and Reach both more or less follow these same models of giving you the bare minumum and having you pick shit up as you go.

Read Halo: First Strike

youtube.com/watch?v=6qfx9eoB-88

This is why I'm ignoring it, wasn't most the game outsourced anyway?

>They would shoot all allied aliens that weren't elites.
This is on tier with me spamming nothing but unarmed mechanics in KKND, and wondering why they wouldn't fight back.

For me, it's the no splitscreen.
Oh, also the plot is shit, the characters are trash and the levels are flat out boring with shit weapons and bad enemy variety/encounters. It released in an incomplete state. The multiplayer panders to everyone but classic Halo fans
I guess Forge is pretty cool in it and it's visually ok in the campaign, because MP looks like bloom-saturated pastel puke.

*them
You fucking brainlet

Campaign that was too focused on adding new characters instead of continuing Chief's story from Halo 4, no split screen or LAN, no content at launch.

>This is why I'm ignoring it, wasn't most the game outsourced anyway?

What doesn't 343 outsource?

>Odd that Jackals are only friendly in the flood infested gate area

These fuckers were my favorite faction since halo ce, eternal shame the playtesters for halo 3 were fucking retards who kept shooting every alien that wasn't an elite.

Fuck up lanklet.
Go get an STD

its in better shape than it was in halo 3, even before it exploded.

The story behind that picture is so sad

>brutes are nearly 4x heavier than an elite
that doesnt seem right.

ODST Firefight was the best
t. Always played as Buck

kino

I thought the series was based around the collapse of this unstoppable religious war machine.

I hate 343's visual design as much as the next guy but If you compare forerunner stuff in CE to 2/3, and then 2/3 to Wars/Reach, and then Wars/Reach to 4/5, there's a pretty consistent trend that 4/5 is the logical conclusion of.

CE forerunner archtecture was basically monolithic metal structures with minimal detailing, seperations, and glowy bits, with the metal being worn and half corroded. 2/3 added way more geometric detailing, lots of transparent panels with light behind them, and glowing lights and energy bits with the occasional floating thing. Reach and Wars had forerunner stuff being increasingly segmented, added a ton of glowy, tron esque lines, and way, way more flooaty bits. The metal itself was also a lot cleaner now.

4/5 is pretty much just the next step in that progression. It's not any bigger of a leap from Reach or Wars' forerunner stuff then 2/3's was from CE's.

Also all that said, I actually do think that forerunner envoirments are the least bad of 343i's stuff. A lot of places in Halo 4 in ruins feels legitmately atmospheric, especially since 343i went back to CE's model of using synth and electronic ambience tracks for forerunner and covenant areas, in contrast to the instrumental tracks for the outdoor spaces; and actually sort of built on that idea by using glitchy disrortion and mixing in the synth/indstrumentals at once to thematically stress how requim had this higher intergration of technology and how this time around the forerunners were the enemies. Simiarly the chanting/vocals are also threatening in 4 rather then just mysterious.

Distortion/ mixing synth and intruments:
youtu.be/kcuddfEvwtw?t=23
youtu.be/zYVGXMWkr7w?t=16
youtube.com/watch?v=83MWUk_0sew

Has that + vocals
youtu.be/Zq5WfR4K3zA?t=30
youtu.be/ctZhKWviOuc?t=86

If only 4 was more like Metroid prime and focused on exploration and isolation.

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Halo 2/3 Forerunner stuff was Halo 1 forerunner stuff with better graphical fidelity
Halo 4/5 Forerunner stuff is generic "futuristic ayy lmao" designs

>If only 4 was more like Metroid prime and focused on exploration and isolation.
It originally was.

It's less about the environments and more about the forerunner weapons and enemies which look like absolute shit. also the Forerunner stuff in 4/5 is significantly less angular than anything in 1-3

The campaign rightfully deserves almost all the hate it gets.

As far as the MP, I straight up think most people haven't played it and think it plays less like Halo then it really does. That, and I think there's also the issue that at this point, people ar ejust inherently sick of changes to Halo's formula even if unlike in Reach and 4, 5's gameplay changes don't interfere with Halp's core design philsophy. To them it doesn't matter, they just want a "classic" game since we've had like 8 years of changes, even if, 5 is arguably no more different from 3 or 2 then 2 or 3 are from CE from a design phincipal standpoint.

Also no splitscreen is fucking inexcusable.

>pay 2 win doesn't interfere with Halo's core design philosophy
ok

This

This

The entire point people are asserting that i'm disputing is that 4 relies on the books to be understood you moron

if "read the books" is an excuse for CE and 2 then it should be for 4 as well; and even then 4 is less reliant on the books for that basic info then CE and 2 are.

Yeah, I post it every god damn thread because every thread you fucking retarded cockguzzling pieces of shit post the same blatently, factually incorrect horsecrap.

Provide a counterarguement if you think i'm wrong.

The environments are fine, but the design for the forerunner enemies looks nothing like Forerunner tech and it's especially jarring since they don't fit the environments at all as a result

That is specifically why Halo 3i s the best in the series

doesnt look in that bad of a condition for something that crashed and exploded

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Most people will never know what a huge accomplishment Halo 4 really was. The whole time we were building it we had to assemble a giant team of egos, working on crazy tech nobody could talk to the creators about, while the Internet kept telling us we would fail.

twitter.com/scottfeed/status/1148002314734592005

>tfw before 2 came out i thought it would be "combat perfected"

it looked like a huge pile of wreckage in halo 3 when it crashed on the ark

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theres also this matte paining from the beginning of cortana that i like too.

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I just play the mainline games and ignore the books and spin-off games because they always contradict the main series either by Bungie or 343, along with other devs as well.

>Halo 2/3 Forerunner stuff was Halo 1 forerunner stuff with better graphical fidelity

Not at all. There's a significant increase in detailing, as I said, and there's way more visual clutter, geometry, etc. More glowy bits as well.

If you look at the concept art for CE vs 2 it's really apparent.

>Halo 4/5 Forerunner stuff is generic "futuristic ayy lmao" designs

You are ignoring the Reach/Wars stuff, it's very much an in between 2/3's and 4/5's.

>In CE, you are just kicked into the midst of things with zero explanation of what the UNSC is, who the covenant is, what Reach was, who Cortana, Keyes, or MC is, and you are just expected to learn shit as you go. And half the shit you don't even ever really get answers to: You pick up that keyes is the captain obviously and that cortana is a smartass AI who can hack into stuff, and you know that the covenant hates humans, but you never get any sort of insight into what the UNSC or the covenant really are or what reach is beyond human faction, alien factor, and planet respective.
These things aren't necessary to understand the plot of Halo. For starters you already know what the UNSC is since it literally exists IRL. Obviously in Halo it's far more powerful and not useless than in real life but you can surmise from the references to the UNSC fleet and the Pillar itself, and the marines, that the UN is obviously much more powerful and better-equipped in this version of the future which lets you assert that it must be the main leading force of humanity. Nothing more is needed to grasp the plot of Halo. You know the Covenant are the enemy faction, and you can surmise from the name and the various types of aliens in it and their reason for being on Halo that it's some sort of religious alliance of aliens that hate humanity for religious reasons. You don't need to know what Reach is beyond it being the planet where the UNSC fleet that the Pillar fled from was, because it's not necessary to understand the story. Extraneous details like that are best left for books.

All the shit about Forerunners being evil in 4 needs more explanation because it's continuing in an established universe, but contradicting all the established lore of that world.

And then they failed lmoa

Warzone wasn't in past halo games

also it's not even really p2w, you can use currency for REQ packs but you earn so fucking much in gake currency via normal play and the mode itself has so many limits that it basically gives you zero advantages.

What went so right?

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I won't, as I said, CE has the better weapon balance, easily.

But that's like the only thing I'd give CE over 2.

>There's a significant increase in detailing
Like I said, better graphical fidelity
Halo 1's environments all had significantly less detailing, the texture sizes were much smaller so they went for simple flat colors that they could tile noticeably to save VRAM. Less glowing parts and less transparent texture were also part of this.
>You are ignoring the Reach/Wars stuff
yeah I am because Wars wasn't done by Bungie and Reach was made after most of the people responsible for the first three games had already left and has the same issues.

>start up the game
>forced to pay money or be at a disadvantage due to spawning with garbage weapons
no. Halo 5's MP is still CoD shit.

Engineers are great and I regret having to shoot a single one

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What happened to the Brutes, Drones, Engineers and Skirmishers in Halo 4?

>twitter.com/scottfeed/status/1148002314734592005
>most believe Halo 4 had a great campaign
>Yea Forums try to paint a picture as if everyone said the opposite
Why must Yea Forums lie all the time?

Source? I'd like to read more about this.

I know all that shit dingus that's why I asked. Many people hate it, but there is an undeniable "stickyness" about the name.
Suits came up with it to help people take Halo more seriously as a shooter, but personally, I think the real value is that it helps people take Halo less seriously as a collection of overt, slightly obnoxious religious metaphors.

Think about the names for a second. 2, 3, and 4 are simple serviceable numbers (and frankly I think CE reads better than Halo 1 or H1 anyway).
ODST, Reach, and Guardians only make sense at first glance if you are familiar with the games/lore, and Reach also invites Mung Daal shit like "Halo Reach Around", or "Halo Reach for a better game".
Combat Evolved has the even field advantage of not really making sense to anyone, not even the people who made the fucking game.
Even if it came after the series was established, it's still just a hammy, catchy tagline. There is an unintentional brilliance to the name, I wouldn't remove it if I could.

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heres a matte painting that is literally only seen through the side windows of a pelican cockpit for a about 2 seconds.

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Say something nice about Halo 4

I can't hate it because I never played it or know anything about it.

Simple, iconic, effective

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It was in 2011 here
youtube.com/watch?v=JD429ZWcQ_w

I enjoyed the campaign

at what point in the game? i'm curious to see how it looks in game

opening cutscene of the last level where cortana is talking to johnson.

I liked the campaign.

I didn't pay very much for it

It was nowhere near as good as the rest of the series

>It was nowhere near as good as the rest of the series
It was nowhere near as good as Halo and Halo 3, I liked it somewhat better than Halo 2 because it had to many lows in the campaign and I really wasn't a fan of Bungie's last two Halo games after Halo 3 because they felt really lazy. It's definitely better than Halo 5's campaign by a long shot.

I think that Halo Wars 2 was a let down from HW1.

*too

>durvish
one good thing from the cut content was renaming it to arbiter

I replayed the entire series earlier this year and I think I liked 4 a bit better than 3.

>I replayed the entire series earlier this year and I think I liked 4 a bit better than 3.

Why? Halo 3 is peak Halo level design.

I can understand liking it more than 2 but 3, user, come on.

It completely destroyed the only good things about the Halo series (encounter design, visual design and atmosphere)

>I liked 4 a bit better than 3

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Controversial and possibly wrong. But I'll allow it

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you mean you liked it more than halo 3 until you started mostly fighting prometheans... right?
if not fuck me sideways, never thought i'd see someone that liked fighting halo 4 prometheans.

The only good things to come out of Halo 4 are Tom Laskey and Gabriel Thorne.

>THAT
CHIP

Attached: ME.png (381x384, 218K)

>It completely destroyed the only good things about the Halo series (encounter design

What's wrong with Halo 4's encounter design?

no lol

WORT WORT WORT

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Every time I think about the fall of Bungie I'm reminded of how great the Destiny could've been if they weren't so much up there own asses

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Why? They are build like brick wall

I'm assuming you stopped playing it before it became 24/7 forerunner robot fights. If you hadn't, you would know what's wrong with its encounter design.

>*teleports into melee range and oneshots you*
>psst nothing personnel reclaimer
honestly halo 4 on legendary was utterly miserable. atleast with halo 2s oneshot jackal snipers i could countersnipe the bastards.

I never played 3 so idk what happened there but my dad had that issue, he was more used to playing chief so he'd shoot aliens regardless, I had to tell him the silver ones and the ones without blue pipes were his buddies

Did anyone finish Halo 4 LASO/MYTHIC?

i dont think jackals would have been friendly even if the playtesters werent spastics. they're mercs still on the prophets pay roll.
bring up the question what they get paid with though.

i was going to but after legendary i just gave up on that. the idea of a knight just teleporting into me and there is nothing i can do to counter that put me off.

good not great. halo 5 being a dumpster fire made it retroactively even better.
absolutely nailed the chief/cortana plotline.

nigger have you even played 5, all of the normal MP modes have even starts and REQ shit isn't enabled

Why, what went wrong?

>These things aren't necessary to understand the plot of Halo.

Correct, but you don't need to know the specifics of why the didact is evil or what the prometheians are etc either, and in fact the game does give you a basic explanation even without the terminals or spartan ops

> but contradicting all the established lore of that world.

There was never any established lore specifying that every single forerunner that ever existed loved humanity or that the forerunners didn't have more complex robotic constructs besides sentinels.

ME2's ammo system was going to be what everyone says it should have been (heat sinks use instantly reset the ME1 style cooldown bar) but idiots couldn't figure it out so they just made them ammo

do these play testers come with their tard wranglers? because what the fuck.

For me it wasn't deaths (I never really got into range of the oneshot) but the fucking weapon sandbox.
>forced to only use Promethean weapons in some missions
>Suppressor looks, sounds, and shoots like garbage
>shotgun and pocket shotgun risk melee oneshot
>sniper rifle and big explosion cannon thing work but are low ammo power weapons
>grenades will be tossed back if drone things are alive and they revive knights so every single encounter is shooting down these things first
>and the light rifle
And that's it, for entire campaign missions I'm just stuck with the fucking light rifle only. Which is still ugly and unsatisfying to shoot because it's a Promethean weapon.

My cousin play tested halo since she lived near Bungie up in WA, she was a 13 year old girl at the time. No tard wrangler, they wanted her and not my other cousin who was you know 18 and actually played halo.

>halo odst has no elite enemies despite it being months before the schism
MUH JAZZY NOIR GAYME

So it's the devs who need tard wranglers, not the playtesters

>halo's fate
Imagine believing this. The main thread has been dead since 3, and the side stuff has been dead since Reach.

love the purple hud

Was Arbiter autistic?

Time and time again we see studios with great games ruin sequels as the people restraining powerful retards (idea guys) leave to work on something new while the talent less hacks stay. However playtesting they chose basically from all groups in an attempt to appeal to all, it obviously never works.

>Checking out one of the hunters up close
>It fucking talks
Sure it was gibberish but it still blew my sad little mind.

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Brutalism went right. It's so rare to see it portrayed in vidya, alien structures is vidya recently are always portrayed like bayformer rip offs.

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garbage enemies
shit plot

hunters are more fun to fight than them being allies. what that doesnt explain was why bungie then put about 3 pairs in the whole game.