Kills himself making perfect game designed for tourneyfags

Isabelle has Down air to side smash. I hate it.

>Basedboy Wojak (219).jpg
Why is your folder so damn big? Why would you need so many reactions of the same thing?

Attached: DVCnBFVWAAAMCHr.jpg large.jpg (1500x1800, 274K)

>”Ugg! Many matchups! No enough exploitable tricks! Leffen no like game where Leffen no win! Leffen spend every day complain about stinky game on Twitter! Leffen bored! Leffen rip Leffen head off!”
Imagine being unable to adapt to a new game in a series you play & openly resenting it because of that. Imagine trying to branch out to play another fighting game series instead and you give up on that the minute better players show up to rail you sideways.

>Why is your folder so damn big? Why would you need so many reactions of the same thing?

Attached: Soyboy Wojak (105).png (261x215, 19K)

why do people like combos agian? its just muscle memory that lets one attack become a stronger attack.

If only DI and SDI weren't a thing.

Fuck I’m a meleefag myself but I hate leffen’s mentality. In DBFZ he was a solidly top 15-30 player and he dropped it because he wasn’t winning majors. He very well could be top 40 in Ultimate. He’s always super close to being a top player in both of these games but quits right before he has a great breakout performance.

But I do, even despite the 8 or so frames of input delay

>No knockback
>No combos
>DI is shit
We are so close, the only thing we need is Sakurai to retire so he doesn't sabotage the sequel and we'll get the perfect Smash game.

>UNIST, DBFZ, BB, GG fags btfo'd with this one post
How will anyone recover?

Honestly as a long-time fightan gaem fan, I can tell you that what some anons call "actual combos" wouldn't be as great as you think. You would end up with something like Smash 64, Mahvel or those animu fighters where if you get touched, you might as well put down the controller because it's usually a touch of death.

And shit like that isn't fun for casuals who would quit the game quickly after getting bodied that hard. It's why games like Tekken will never ever truly have a massive fanbase no matter how much Tekken fans say otherwise.

You’re implying that Melee isn’t guilty of the same damn thing with its matchups. Only a small handful of the cast can perform at a high level if we’re taking professional tournament play into account, if you play someone like Samus, it’s one hell of an uphill battle, and if you play Mewtwo or Game & Watch, just fucking give up, you’re not making it out of pools.

Combos in Melee and 64 are more fun than combos in 2D fighters, and way more fun than the "don't let the balloon touch the ground" shit in nuSmash.

Fuck off with your non-argument.

>inb4 "that's not a combo, that's just a series of hits!"

Attached: falcon1.webm (935x530, 2.06M)

Do you think that all Swedes are just born angry people, or is it just a byproduct of the glitz gained by winning a video game from late 2001 in modern day while surrounded by screaming 30-something tubby white people?

Attached: D4D193CA-7FAF-4A40-A847-BC7D9DD9D791.jpg (359x220, 45K)

>most characters cant beat top tiers
>defending melee
How the fuck did you not see whats wrong with that statement?

Ultimate is still too floaty. t. casual fan of Melee.

But almost none of Melee's combos are true combos like in say UNIST since players are free to DI and SDI at any time. And those two things alone have a pretty dramatic impact on the combo game.

Nigga that's not a combo. Lucario had 3 chances to do something.

>Plups face when Leffen spikes his controller
Is there a better feeling?

posted about this in a thread before but my friend who mains bayo never shuts the fuck up about tiers and matchups when i beat him with ryu so he switched to fox and i switch to little mac and still beat him so he pic related], should i tell him to shut the fuck up and git gud or am i in the wrong for not knowing about shit like tiers and just playing ryu cause i like the button input thing he has.

Attached: gamershotted.png (503x570, 45K)

no he didn't retard. you think these people don't know you can buffer airdodges? nair/uair strings with falcon are true combos on some characters at lower percents

wow i majorly fucked up the spoilers here

I'm not a casual

That was a combo. Falcon has several of his combos from both 64 and melee in Ultimate including your beloved stomp into knee.

Attached: falcon2.webm (1073x534, 2.9M)

>muh Sakurai put his heart and soul into this game
Do people really believe this?

Give it time. Little things will eat away at Melee's base. You don't gain invincibility back when you regrab the ledge in Ultimate. Ice Climbers had an infinite that got patched out.

>Adds competitive tech
What tech? Attacking-canceling and B-reversing are shitty fucking tech and super boring compared to melee and even brawl's tech

I don't know about DBFZ but in Ult he had good reason to quit. It just wasn't worth his time as he couldn't get decent practice where he lived. Playing ult online is a different game then offline unless you live in japan,major tournies mostly happen in US so he has to travel to there to compete, and europe is far behind US in player skill. Thinking about it its probably why he quit DBFZ too, he doesn't live in a place where can get good practice and playing online is inadequate.

parrying faggot

Because you suck at it dude

I'm not gonna say that I have any guaranteed ideas about Tekken's longevity, but I would say that combos add more depth in that game than just damage.

Combos ideally have to be adjusted to optimally reach the wall and transition to wall damage. Since the game uses a juggle system in most cases as well, moves can be switched out in order to go for damage, wall carry, or even oki for some characters.

Getting bodied by combos isn't fun when you're new, though. But I think that's just a symptom of not understanding the genre itself rather than specific to combos. Someone with any knowledge of how frames or other systems in an FG work can abuse, abuse, abuse.

What happened to M2K? I haven't seen him place in top 8 in a long time.

He’s getting too old to vidya, just like we all are, user.

>Kills himself making perfect game designed for tourneyfags
hahahaha

>Sakurai to retire
Only if you want Miyamoto, Aonuma, or Tabata to handle the series. Otherwise, they'd rather shelve Smash and sit on the IP than hand it over to any of the tourney autists.

You guys talk like faggots

>9 times out of 10 the character you want to play can't hold up to top tier characters
I hope you're not defending melee.

Attached: 1560639382483.jpg (640x599, 20K)

Attached: 1560563733726.gif (320x287, 2.36M)

I'm a swede. Swedes aren't angry per se. We're just annoyed at everything like entitled bitches.

He's focusing on streaming and youtube it provides a more consistent income than tournies.

Unrelated, but what do you think about A$AP Rocky being stuck in Swedish jail because of migrant harassment?

They're more fun in melee and 64 though.

Why do Ultimatefags think shit like Bowser and Ganon is hype

Fuck this game is boring

Attached: heavies.png (589x857, 239K)

I question why they put so much effort and money into jailing celebrities while not having resources to keep police departments open.
It's just swedish officials trying to make an example showing they aren't as weak as people think, but at the same time, it makes them look like any other oppressive nation since they are selective in what they do.
Personally, just release him since there are video footage showing the migrants started it all, yet they went free.
They are also extending his arrest.

Video games are fun.

For some people, it's more fun than seeing the lighter characters dance circles around each other for the millionth time.

Attached: stinky day.jpg (588x570, 80K)

It's boring to play. There's no weight or speed. Melee is fun however.

That's not reliable and there are gaps. Melee combos are fast, short and reliable.

Here's a better question, why do Ultimatefags (let's be honest, they are just Nintendofags who will jump ship to the newest game regardless) get so upset that Melee players stick with their game? They run their own tourneys, have their own players, and generally stick to themselves. It's not like the existence of the competitive scene is siphoning players from Ultimate, or affecting the new game in any reasonable way. Is the mere fact that certain players prefer an older installment enough to upset you? Why are you affronted by something that has zero effect on the company or the developer's decisions? This is the only series with this level of casual elitism. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so neurotic.

Attached: 1536199929826.jpg (500x538, 41K)

I play melee and continue to enjoy how mad people are over a game they can just choose not to pay attention to. I truly believe the real reason people hate melee is because of the freedom the community has. The game cannot be touched by Nintendo, is easily modified, and easily distributed. I honestly, fully believe because melee players don't have to follow a developer's lead this creates unrivaled jealousy.

They are minimal in Smash Ultimate. Especially SDI, which is disabled on a ton of moves because fuck you. Kind of funny that dude was saying what he did. Melee has the least free autocombos of any Smash title. With a few exceptions (mostly grab stuff), it's actually stupidly dynamic to the point where a lot of getting decent is learning this.

It's mostly just manufactured. Yea Forums has been like this for a long, long time about Melee. (Fox only, final destination was a thing for a long fucking time, along with a lot of Yea Forums thinking some literal no-tourney scrub was indicative of the community).

I think the other part stems from Brawl being so bad that during the time, people were rather vocal in shitting on Brawl and that made a lot of Brawl players defensive. This created elitism on both sides (mostly with worse players) and streammonsters carry it on until today. It's compounded a bit by the fact that you can be pretty bad at Smash Ultimate and still do okay online-- well enough to not just feel like a total fuck. In Melee you will get bodied. You will get bodied fucking hard at all skill levels, and it takes some understanding of this before one can embrace the strive towards improvement.

It doesn't have enough depth in movement for there to be many different styles of the same character.

this is not true
both of these people had a chance to jump away and do something else instead of being a retard.

Why do they smell so fucking bad?

Melee can never die when it lives so rent free in your mind.

>There's no combos
Yes there are.

then whats the difference between a combo and a charged f-smash if the combo is really reliable

Why are smashers such Basedboys? This came from when all the Trump fans at the rally were chanting "send her back" btw

Attached: 6492720174026153056592.jpg (1080x1398, 242K)

Every Ultimate tournament thread I've seen on here gets inevitably filled with Meleefags complaining about how slow it is, whining about Melee not starting, brag about "muh viewership", and so on.

based

Esam is a literal wojak irl

>what is you doin

blacks and black grammar was a fucking mistake

You have to be pretty fucking coddled to think that's scary.

Attached: 1384896740657.jpg (91x124, 3K)

Yeah, anyone saying they don't exist is retarded. The issue is that most are essentially dial-a-combo that makes the game feel more about setplay than anything dynamic. It's not 100% true, but it's true more often than not. Also how the game handles hitboxes is retarded-- basically everything is disjointed and clanks, meaning whiff-punishing all but doesn't exist. Completely retarded. Let's not even get into priority on most recoveries, some characters having basically no hitboxes to hit characters hanging on the ledge, landing detection, the ability to buffer dodges so things are safe on shield for free, etc. This isn't even getting into core issues like no momentum into jumps and input delay (plus the buffering system is borked but someone could argue that it's preference).

Want to see something retarded? Have a GW fsmash and have a second GW Fsmash that one's back. It will clank.

I'm not really following why that's retarded, they are both holding a match it's not part of the body of course it clanks.

If only Brawl was like this, then the Smelly faggotry wouldn't have been so big. Fuck Sakurai with that casual pandering shit, it hurt the series since. It should have just been like this instead if Melee was too high skill ceiling for him.

It will clank on GW's back, not the match. Hitboxes are dumb and despite the fact that clearly the GW facing away should lose the exchange, he doesn't.

So then explain why you meleefags need to enforce a stupid cliffhanger rule nowadays? You can literally play lamer in melee than you can in ultimate.

I still don't understand his retarded logic. "if we remove stuff used by high level players then anybody could beat them".

Oh yeah that's true but that kind of dumb hitbox interaction is really not uncommon in fighting games and G&W is just kind of jank in general.

Adding undertale character is the final nail in the coffin.

You can literally see Lucario attempt to jump after the first uair and get caught by the second, dair after the second and get caught by the third, and then try to up-b(?) and get stomped. He could've buffered air dodge, he's just retarded.

First, what you're bringing up has nothing to do with my post. Second, it doesn't need to be enforced-- stalling should be a blanket rule across all of the titles and it once was. Hell, the classic Smash 4 Bayo moment was disrupted because TOs told them to fight or be DQed. The risk/reward of a puff planking is stupid but so is a ledge regrab rule. The meta was not dominated by it.

Don't let e-drama cloud your judgment. It's the same shit with stage lists (Ultimate has a bunch of stages banned for tournament play for literally no good reason. Some excuses include "players don't like it", "we need X amount of stages for striking", "it's too similar to another legal stage" and "the blastzones aren't what we want"

>ungrateful
bait

Imagine thinking you're entitled to having your playerbase play your game because it's "new and cool" or because "you worked so hard on it." If it's a piece of shit, it's a piece of shit through and through regardless of how many hours you poured into it. It is completely up to the player to stick with an older rendition of they don't find the new release appealing. Sakurai is delusional of he genuinely thinks his entire playerbase should be playing Ultimate.

Attached: 1548590841233.webm (184x208, 72K)

It happens way more than it should because the game is designed where a lot of clearly non-disjointed moves end up disjointed "just because". This is carry over from Smash 4, and it was one of the main reasons why Bayo was so fucking retarded. You could 100% know what she was going to do in many instances, such as side Bing to recover, but many characters had zero hitboxes that could challenge it despite the fact besides bullets and her smashes, she should not have disjoints. Oops, her legs are totally intangible!

you realize that melee players are autistic, yes?

and what do autistic people do? obsess over one thing till they can do it as best they can.

because who the fuck honestly still plays melee after 18+ years, it isnt like there is anything new to be learned, no new meta will ever be discovered, melee is a fucking dead end of a video game, what reason does it still have to be relevant

>>Lets you use any move out of a dash to eliminate the need for waveglitching

this is a thing?

People who enjoy playing it do.

From someone who played SF competitively for a number of years and then switched to Smash, combos provide a sense of consistency in terms of strategy. I know if I hit a person with a specific move, I can always maneuver them into one of a select few scenarios.

For example,
>Catch person in mid-range with footsie attack
>Combo into sweep, which hard knocks them down for longer than normal
>This gives me enough time to jump over them to the other side before they can get up
>Throw out random jab that lands, this is the start of practically any combo I want - now I can choose what to combo into
>decide to go for combo that does less damage but brings them to the corner of the map
>now I have map control, land another jab - I have super meter built up so I'm looking for a lot of damage.
>Instead of going for the full combo, I drop it intentionally halfway through to frame trap them, bait a button press, and reset the damage taper, now I can juggle into super and KO them with less effort.

I like smash too, but there is a certain element of control that is lost when you don't have a reliable combo system to fall back on. Traditional fighters play like speed chess, where you have a certain number of canned moves that will always trump other canned moves. Smash plays completely differently - it's like chess that's constantly evolving. A lot of smash players have the conception that a combo is something that happens, where you put down the controller and there's nothing you can do. When in reality, both players are looking for openings. The aggressor is looking to drop his combo prematurely so he can restart it and do more damage, while the defender is looking for a way out.

>he doesn’t know about the super yo-yo glitch

I am like 95% sure it's not a disjoint and you're just complaining about stupidly high priority on the attack.

This is how you know some has never watched a single melee match in the past year

ok granted but why do you want miyazaki to keep catering to melee players, what would that benefit him at all. better to focus on the hot new growing playerbase of a recent game than focusing on a game going on two decades old with a completely stagnant base and competitive scene

So to clarify, a combo is like one attack that is broken up into a bunch of branching steps. At any point you can deviate from a path and launch into something new, all with the intention of throwing your opponent off their game.

And then there's bullshit like Tekken that is literally combo until you die. Fuck Tekken.

Priority is only based on percentage dealt (and whether a move is an A move on the ground or something else). She may still have technically a hurtbox in her leg, but the move's hitbox extends so far away from her leg it's essentially disjointed (this was also the case for Snake's limbs in Brawl). There are lots of cases where this is not the case though and characters just straight up get their hurtboxes moved or removed for moves, such as WFT's utilt, GW/Mario's usmash, etc.

I think this is a good post, but (depending on the game) option selects can severely undermine the weighing of risk/reward.

I never said I did. Sakurai will never understand what made melee a great game. I don't think you can intentionally make something like it again.
The fact you call it stagnant also shows a lot of ignorance about the game itself.

They look cool and can be very technical which is interesting to watch. They're not all the same either, within melee or other fighting games, which means they're not all strictly muscle memory. Watch daigos 25 hit combo on momochi. If you don't think that's the coolest shit then fighting games just aren't for you

We don't. We know that he'll never make another melee which is why we've stuck with our game for so long. All we want is for him to appreciate or at least understand why melee is so great and why people have been playing it for 18+ years, not shun and force us to play a totally different game.

if he made a good game the fanbase would move to it

instead he made Brawl, Brawl 2.0 and Brawl 3.0 when there was nothing alienating about melee. casuals aren't going to ever get matches where they need to fight McWavedash ProPlayer so removing all the mechanics that make high level play is nonsensical.

Melee DI doesnt do much for bnb combos.

if it's smash then there's a ton of variables you need to take into account, some moves combo only at certain weight levels/damage levels/stale levels

To be fair, option selects are also extremely advanced tech. For example, in SF when you get to the tier of play where option selects start to become a regular thing, the game still functions mostly the same - you just learn to play with and against a loaded hand. All the basic OS's gets figured out quickly and people learn how to react to them, so people begin to develop their own personal OS's and frame entire strategies around them.

However, every OS can be beaten and at that tier of play everyone has a number of defensive OS strats that keep them mostly same. The worst situation you can be in is a 50/50 basically.

At the end of the day, the player with the best fundamental skills will be the person in that advantageous 50/50 position more often than the player with worse fundamentals - meaning statistically they're more likely to win given enough matches.

I looked up a video of her hitboxes since I was curious, that is kind of big but not Snake F tilt in Brawl tier bullcrap.

Attached: hitbox.png (1920x1080, 2.05M)

lmao I still think about snake brawl hitboxes and laugh.

Dunno if it's just because I haven't played it in so long but I kinda miss the jank of brawl.

Project M is a good alternative - if you can track down the latest build it's a lot of fun.

I still enter PM which is P+ now. It's not really what I meant about brawl though.

Imagine liking a game and being called ungrateful because apparently you HAVE to like the sequels. I don't even play Smash, but shut up.

My only issue with Melee is the people who play it. They never fucking start whining that other smash games are allowed to exist.

That seems like a positive though.

Watching the same 8 people play the same 4 characters over and over isn't made any more interesting by the discovery of one glitch on one character.

Being rewarded for winning neutral?

>Complaining about top tiers
>Defending melee
Melee has 5 top tiers and 2 high tiers. The rest are basically irrelevant.

>Kills himself making perfect game designed for tourneyfags
Melee wasn't designed for tourneyfags tho. It was just an in-depth physics engine with a lot of cool applications and eventually became a perfect game for tourneyfags through years of learning the game's secrets and what it's capable of.

>Smelee players still won't play it
Are you retarded? Smelee players literally play Melee.

Attached: 84901c28e45e585546c59a251d750e8ada5307e1b37ec6f30351c8ad71b6d804.png (506x506, 16K)

Meh, I find Ultimate pretty fun. It's much better than Sm4sh and Brawl. I prefer Melee and 64 more because you can do more in them and they feel much better and more fun, but Ultimate is a good game.

Ultimate is a lot more relaxing to play as well because there's basically no execution barrier so it's all just learning your opponents as opposed to learning your opponents while also having to perfectly command your character at high speeds to follow through on what you've downloaded. 64 is somewhat this way as well in neutral.

I switch between the two games quite a bit, and when my friends are over we wind up playing whichever one we feel like at that time.

Attached: 1358736675816.jpg (500x380, 180K)

But the Melee top 10 plays 10 different characters.

Same can't be said of Ultimate despite having three times the characters to select from.

The only reason melee is still going is because the players aren't good enough at the newer titles. It's the only way to keep them relevant, and none of them were savvy enough to parley their success into something beyond melee. So they stomp and scream to keep an outdated, buggy, busted title relevant in order to stay in business.

Same reason these stupid shills post the same /po/ "news" articles on Yea Forums day after day. Easy clicks and easy views, and the free hits help them stay relevant.

Melee people would move on if they could. But they can't, or they don't know how. So they'll block the road and collect troll tolls until someone finally pushes them into the dumpster.

>Peach
>Wario
>Inkling
>Joker
>Pokemon trainer
>Pikachu
>Lucina
>Wolf
>Fox
>Olimar
>Snake
>ZSS
>Shulk
>Rob
>Pichu
>Greninja
All of these characters could be considered top tier and they all play differently. Cope meleenigger.

It would appear that you are the real nigger, as you seem to have been incapable of reading my post.

I didn't mention top tier, I mentioned variety in top 10 for players. All the top 10 play the same characters, despite that large "top tier" that you posted (which isn't even accurate btw). Obviously a game with 70 characters will have more high tier characters than a game with 25, if that's your standard then MUGEN would be the greatest balanced game of all time.

>then why isn't ultimate fun to play
Jesus christ, you can't make this shit up!

Melee players aren't smash fans, and they aren't asking for a new game, nor do they care that one gets released. They play melee because of what it has to offer, not because of the name on the box

Retard