"Stop putting politics in games!"

>Ahahahaha holy shit. Metal Gear has more hours dedicated to politics than any other series I can think of
in optional codec calls. most of the actual canonical story elements are setting up video game levels and reusing plot points from 80's action movies

peace walker

Metal Gear's political but it's not particularly partisan. It's an anti-war series with some generally individualist ideas driving it. That said, I think most complaints about politics in games are stupid on here.

>Kojimbo never used MGS to scream about whatever Japanese politicial hack with a one term half-life he didn't like.
persona 5 is very popular on 4cha and yet all of its villians are such obvious strawmen of real people in japan the game makes you sign a fucking disclaimer at the start that you agree everything that's about to happen is fake so they avoid getting sued

Nuclear deterrence, genes memes fate information flow and all that shit doesn't delve into politics that intrude with the way people live and behave
What's impressive is that the actual 'politics' that people hate are actually in the games but in a very "yeah that's a thing, whatever" kind of manner. Volgin, vamp, raikov, yeah they're all gay whatever move on. Same with the boss being a powerful female figure

Because Kojima gets a pass for anything.

It's not about politics
a lot of games have politics and its absolutely fine
the problem is the lgbtq/Marxist agenda at every turn, completely out of proportion and never disputed

Oh that makes it not count somehow? Also no, like I said, the last 2 hours or so of MGS2 is a big fat Kojima author tract about politics.

>Metal Gear: a genetically engineered man born for the sole purpose of being a killer pawn decides he has had enough of it and does his best to stop nuclear holocaust all over the world
>Other game: women in ww2 lmao, have sex incel, fucking biggot lesbians are awesome and empowering yasss kweeeen

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>"War and nuclear weapons bad."

Yeah, real groundbreaking politics there.

So what you're saying is that politics are okay so long as you don't disagree with them and that Yea Forums IS being hypocritical whenever anyone claims "stop adding politics to games", gotcha.

how can one man be so fucking retarded

If he's talking about MGS1 he's not necessarily wrong. That game's main theme is overcoming genetics and finding your own path. Also nuclear bombs are dangerous. If talking about the entire series, then he is wrong.

>What's impressive is that the actual 'politics' that people hate are actually in the games but in a very "yeah that's a thing, whatever" kind of manner.
More like it gets a pass by default because it's Kojima so people don't get triggered thinking it must be the ess jay double us at it again since they know how he is.

refer to

OP said Metal Gear so it's pretty clear it's the whole series and not just one game.

This thread was created by someone following a script, someone who doesn't play video games, someone who very well may be paid for their time here.

It's the exact same thread, the exact same mention of the BFV trailer, the exact same lines. You've seen it five times before and yet you still clicked on it and debated the OP on his own merits because you've been tricked into being so apathetic about the whole situation that you refuse to believe anything is going on.

Remember, these people believe everything is political; they're not going to stop just because you think this is a fun shitposty board for video games. The war for your mind takes place on a battlefield you cannot escape.

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It gets a pass because everyone and everything is powerful and sexualized, men and women, with no agenda or preference

there is a clear anti-war agenda that its almost embarrassing. nastascha in one scene talks about how there are over 20,000 cluster bombs still active in laos and... nicaragua?

It's not about disagreeing, my beliefs are constantly disputed in videogames and I'm fine with it, political correctness/lgbtq/marxism whatever you want to call it is always shown as a perfect ideology with no room for conversation

Refer to what? A post pretending the only "politics" the games have is a big generic hero story about saving the world from nukes? Did you not beat MGS2?

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Also please, there's tons of Japanese games where women are the strongest characters yet nobody ever claims they must have an agenda.

What the fuck are you on? Are you spending too much time on /pol/? Point out when have I made this thread before, and how exactly is pointing out Yea Forums's hypocrisy not a valid point?

Like the board going up in flames because BFV had a woman in it? That sounds like people disagreeing to me.

Also, again, the point is that Yea Forums complains about politics in games, period, yet are okay with MG's politics regardless. If that statement doesn't apply to you then you don't need to keep arguing.

Saved.

>this board went up in flames just because BFV's reveal trailer had a woman in it
That's not even about politics, most people on Yea Forums just hate women having a role in anything other than as sex objects

I think they're a difference between a game being about political themes, even if I disagree with them, and something like Battlefield 5 or Wolfenstein TNC which basically just used contemporary talking points for marketing material. Neither game was actually "about" contemporary politics, but the marketing relied on it for outrage bux.

How come I'm responsible for the entirety of Yea Forums now

That's politics, honey. When women couldn't even vote, that was also because of politics.

You didn't read the second half of the post did you?

>should have stayed that way desu

I did not, sorry

Stop putting gay shit in games

Only leftists and marxists think that "everything is political".
While the mgs saga has political undertones, its rarely in your face or preachy and usually well thought ans bslanced.
Also the "politics" only serve the agenda of making a good sneaking game, not to force fred you postmodernism

Internet outrage is a minority, otherwise EA and Activision would have gone bankrupt ages ago. Companies don't do it for "outrage bux", they do it for the opposite reason, pandering to political correctness. Also as said before, Yea Forums complaining about politics period is hypocritical because that complaint suddenly doesn't apply when it's a game they like, like .

MGS politics isn’t shilling left vs right tribal wars, that’s what makes it different

>Only leftists and marxists think that "everything is political".
Good thing the OP didn't say that then.
>its rarely in your face or preachy
>I did not play MGS2

>Also the "politics" only serve the agenda of making a good sneaking game, not to force fred you postmodernism
So what you're saying is that politics are okay so long as you don't disagree with them.

...

It's not about numbers it's about power
You can lose a job because someone gets outraged for no reason

I agree with the latter point, it is hypocritical, but when Wolfenstein's marketing was filled with spins on the MAGA shit when the game had none, you can't tell me that controversy wasn't part of the marketing scheme. Some Western devs still think telling your demographic to go fuck itself is good marketing only to be proven wrong, but that's another topic altogether.

Nah, that's not politics, it's just the collective opinion of a very small group of socially handicapped people in an internet echo chamber.
It doesn't really have any prevalence in that way outside of these small internet communities. Nobody outside these communities were particularly triggered at all by BFV including women

Duh, that's why I said political correctness. And the people who get outraged, like I said, are an insignificant minority, hence why not caring about them when shoving your author tract down their throat is done by said studios.

Peace Walker features Snake fighting the CIA in Latin America alongside the Sandinistas.
MGS 2’s ending is pretty much Manufacturing Consent abridged
MGS4 is a massive fuck you to the role of for profit enterprise in war.
Reveangance, while not directly written by Kojima, had his blessing, and has a Texan hard-right social darwinist senator who literally says MAGA as the antagonist
You are retarded if you don’t think Kojima is lefty as hell

>you can't tell me that controversy wasn't part of the marketing scheme
Thing is, anti-Trump is pretty much a mainstream opinion around the world so it's no different from a marketing involving something like "puppies are cute", i.e pandering to a popular opinion and validating tons of people, while the only people that disagree with it are a minority, the anti-puppy cult, and the people who think games shouldn't have animal bias, in this case Yea Forums.

But, my man, Trump has NOTHING to do with the game itself. The only reason it would be in the marketing would be to stir sht.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WAS A CHILD BACK THEN THEREFORE NOTHING EVER HAD POLITICS STOP I SAID STOP

>Nah, that's not politics
Yes, yes it is. It's the politics of said minority group, especially when said group is hypocritically okay when a japanese dev does it (and there's lots of jap games where a girl is playable), why? Because they don't think jap devs have any political agenda behind it. That reason is proof that this is about politics.

And a game that doesn't have anything to do with dogs can have a commercial about them, what's your point?

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>stop making all of the characters mutts
but then how are they going to represent americans?

>Because they don't think jap devs have any political agenda behind it.
I'd argue that's exactly why this isn't about politics, but just because it's a popular opinion here that western devs make ugly female characters, which is the root of the backlash.
Japs get a free pass because 'kawaii anime girls'.
It could be interpreted as political opinion, but I think that's giving too much credit to a bunch of pathetic internet dwellers who have barely spoken to a woman in real life

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"Politics" is the wrong word, but left-leaning folks are being disingenuous when they pretend to not know what the conversation is about. Exploring a political belief in a philosophical sense is usually tolerated or respected. Putting "orange man bad", "white men bad", "communism is the best" hamfisted nonsense in your games is what people take issue with and where the anti-politics in games stance comes from. But all of you literally already know this and are just arguing to try to one-up strangers on the Internet

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The point is people got "upset" at the politics in Woflenstein's marketing because they were irrelevant to the game itself, and clearly only there to cause a capital C-controversy, which backfired and resulted in the game bombing.

>it's an OP doesn't realize the difference between politics and identity politics episode

No it isn't, because people get angry even when the character isn't ugly, in fact the latter is only a minority of cases like ME Andromeda.

More importantly, Yea Forums specifically complains about political agendas in these examples and sjws and shit, meaning that it is politics no matter what.

...

>Putting "orange man bad", "white men bad", "communism is the best" hamfisted nonsense in your games
How many games actually do that though?
The only one I can think of even remotely close to the first two points would be Wolfenstein II, and that association only seems to be made by Trump supporters and right wingers anyway

Like I said, being intentionally disingenuous is your MO

you're fucking retarded if you think the game endorses what the colonel ai says

he is literally the bad guy in the game

The point is that whatever marketing something has being irrelevant to the product isn't the real reason, because products have that all the fucking time.

Also it's pretty disingenuous to claim that's the reason it bombed, when it has a pretty average score of 7.5 and a lot of people felt it didn't live up to expectations. Again, if internet outrage wasn't a minority, EA and Activision would have gone bankrupt ages ago.

Identity politics: politics that don't pander to me

because metal gear is based as fuck

Are you actually going to argue or concede the fact that you can't and just keep repeating /pol/-tier accusations even though I'm not even leftist nor does this thread have anything to do with that?

Not him, but a lot of what the AI says isn't agenda, it's social commentary, and probably the most apt commentary in video game history

Not very many do, which is why the examples in these threads is always the same handful of games. But the Wolfenstein marketing connection to modern-day conservative American politics and literal "white man bad" statements within the game itself cannot be denied either

Too bad Yea Forums doesn't say "identity politics", they said politics in general, because not all the games they complain about are about identity politics.

I mean if you're interested in an actual discussion, I'd argue the main difference is that identity politics is more abstract and not tied to anything economical. Politics is arguing that you're at a disadvantage because you live in Afghanistan, identity politics is arguing that you're at a disadvantage because you're brown.

Wasn't Reveangance way before Trump's time? The slogan was a coincidence, no? Dude didn't exist as a political runner back when the game came out.

Purely out of interest, can you name one other example other than TNC?

what politics in mgs got you all butthurt? lets talk specifics

also It's social commentary by a authoritarian AI reflecting the thoughts and opinions of the enemies of the whole game series. It's all stupid shit that only brainlets fall for. All the things that the colonel blames on free association is actually caused by context creation, the thing he wants to implement as a solution. It's all the same old problem-reaction-solution bullshit that politicians are pulling. If you don't get it it's because you're a brainlet.

There is nothing wrong with politics, international intrigue, etc. portrayed in video games.

What people dont want are games influenced by shitty IDENTITY politics which are used by both sides to divide everyone over dumb non issues instead of focusing on real issues. We dont want people in game hating on whitey or tranny or niggers or straight men for no reason. We want characters with real motivations and not created so the studio can virtue signal by showing everyone their game has a woman of color. These motivations can be political, but they should have meaning like The Boss playing her role in the "scene"
No one ever shits on Volgin for being bi, it's just a side point to him being a sadist. No one complains dredging is black, he is a good character and it is easy to believe a black man grew up orphaned by war in some shithole country.

Politics in MGS get a pass because they are meaningful, and crucial to a plots that are always about terrorism or international conflict. No one is making Sunny a FtM transdyke with pink hair and septimus piercing, no one made Ocelot black in sequels because we needed more representation.

It isn't disingenuous when the only major difference between TNO and TNC was how they were marketed, and TNO outsold it nearly four to one best I can find. If the only marketing for a goofy alt-history action game is based on contemporary politics, you can't tell me that didn't turn off a good deal of potential buyers looking to get away from that.

I didn't say that, author tract doesn't have to be literally the author saying what's good and what's bad. But it is absolutely social commentary and one that would eventually be reflected in the 2010s which is why people really like that cutscene.

You're basically saying that all villains are one dimensional and they cannot possibly ever have anything that the protagonist/viewer could possibly agree with BECAUSE they're the bad guy.
>what politics in mgs got you all butthurt?
None? What posts have you been reading?

>There is nothing wrong with politics
Too bad, because Yea Forums complains about politics in games, period, and that's what this thread is about.

It's not social commentary you retard, it's the enemy trying to con you and convince you that he has the moral imperative to do what he's doing. But hes actually lying. You're a brainlet.

dilate

>It's all stupid shit that only brainlets fall for.
But what the AI says about people withdrawing into gated communities perfectly foreshadowed the rise of social media, echo chambers, and filter bubbles.

Also what it says about the potential for information control to influence people on a mass scale is happening now via social media and has been proven.

This kind of stuff was way ahead of its time, particularly in the medium of video games

If you dont like politics or social commentary in games then go play children games you faggot.

MGS politics are a lot more interesting than the identity politics bullshit the west does

>But what the AI says about people withdrawing into gated communities perfectly foreshadowed the rise of social media, echo chambers, and filter bubbles.
All those things are contextually created and controlled. He blames those things on free association when in reality all those ills are actually created by the establishment he represents. He's strawmanning free flow of information in order to convince you that he needs to be in control, when he is the one who created the problem in the first place.

People always withdrew, into their communities, churches, etc. We're just seeing a digital version of that.

>471234060
>I know what you mean when you say politics but I'll pretend you meant something else! Give me (You)s, niggers!

People who say "politics shouldn't be in games" are genuinely retarded, it is not about there being politics or not, it is about people trying to make statements from a fictional world mean something in the real world. I think this video describes it pretty well: youtu.be/pFS_HsBgqz4

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Like I said, you think that because they're the bad guy they literally cannot ever say anything that isn't wrong. Not to mention, you're arguing about something that's in-game (the fact that they're the bad guy) when their commentary applies to the real world.

You're taking the parts about them talking about the in-game universe and using them to discard everything else they said, which is social commentary. Also, bucko, author tract and social commentary don't have to be explicitly "EVERY WORD HERE IS LITERALLY WHAT I THE AUTHOR THINKS". Obviously the patriots are the bad guys and nobody agrees that what they're doing is good, but it's how they say it what makes it social commentary because a lot of what they say applies to the real world, i.e the dilemma about censorship and whether or not it's a good thing.

>order to convince you that he needs to be in control,
Here's the problem, you're just taking the part about them defending themselves and thinking anyone here agrees with it, when what people are talking about are the parts of their speech that apply to the real world. It has nothing to do with agreeing that they're not the bad guys, that's completely besides the point.

I mean just listen to yourself. "Filter bubbles". That is literally creating and controlling context via algorithmic means, done by a humongous corporations funded by CIA, with close connections to all kinds of powerful figures. Social media, it's a similair situation.

>Like I said, you think that because they're the bad guy they literally cannot ever say anything that isn't wrong. Not to mention, you're arguing about something that's in-game (the fact that they're the bad guy) when their commentary applies to the real world.
Not at all. You're projecting some stupid idea on me. You're taking what he's saying at face value without actually thinking about what he's saying and about how it applies or doest not apply to the real world.

...

Yeah but what the colonel is blaming on free flow on information is just outright false. Instead his purported solution, more control of information, is actually what caused the problems that he is talking about in the first place.

And because you lack the ability to think critically, you just accept what he says without questioning it.

There is a difference between politics and force fed SJW propaganda.

>Not at all.
Of course you are, why else would you keep saying that "THEY'RE JUST DOING IT TO CONVINCE YOU THEY'RE THE GOOD GUYS!", proving that you're completely missing the point and that that part has nothing to do with it.

>is just outright false. Instead his purported solution, more control of information, is actually what caused the problems that he is talking about in the first place.
> you just accept what he says without questioning it.
user what part of "nobody here agrees with it" did you miss? What drives you to keep spouting this shit?

Why do you keep harping about this shit instead of actually replying to my explanation of his lie?

Are you really this fucking stupid that you can't even comprehend what I'm saying

I'm not saying his solution is incorrect, I'm saying his pretext is just factually false and easy to prove.

YOU ARE FUCKING DUMB LIKE ALL THOSE RETARDS ON YOUTUBE WHO MAKE RETARDED VIDEOS ABOUT THINGS THEY HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA ABOUT

>Why do you keep harping about this shit
Right back at you, you keep saying that we "accept" what they're saying when in fact none of us do, dumbass. Your explanation of his lie is irrelevant because we all know it's a lie, idiot. Nobody agrees with him, nobody accepts what he said, nobody thinks the patriots aren't the bad guys. Dumbass.

You can't just say "X propaganda is ok but Y propaganda isn't" tho, games shouldn't be propaganda to begin with.

Metal Gear’s politics is just some Japanese autist repeating shit he heard on TV. That actually applies to everything Metal Gear.

Fucking sub 70 iq retard. MGS fanbase is cancer

>I'm not saying his solution is incorrect, I'm saying his pretext is just factually false and easy to prove.
Whoa, even more things that have nothing to do with what we're talking about! What a surprise.

This is you:
>character says corporations are bad because of mcguffin that only exists in their universe
>player realizes how this applies to the real world
>you on the other hand go "NO YOU IDIOT THE MCGUFFIN IS NOT REAL"

>respond to my strawmen statements made in bad faith or accept defeat on this anonymous Cambodian dart throwing forum

I can't think of any other mainstream game that did it as overtly as TNC. But how many games really get people riled up like that anyway? Seems to usually be misfires by either side that get walked back later like with Far Cry 5. Or identity politic race/gender swapping, which I should have included in my initial post but still falls under the umbrella of non-insightful politics

But half of that is the point, the AI colonel is wrong about the solution to the problem it perceives.
I would say it is right though when it states that digital technology and the internet has the potential to divide society more than ever and has the potential to damage society on a scale which previously wasn't a particular risk.
The worrying thing is that the authoritarian means it proposes to use to try and rectify the problem are tools which are starting to be used now. Just look at information control in China.

don't want your shitty "All or nothing" fallacy, bro. You can pack that shit up and take it back to whatever echo chamber you come from. At best I've seen threads where the argument is whether or not it is possible to have a game that is completely apolitical.

People who want games about political intrigue are going to get what they want, people who don't want that can simply not play games they know are heavy on that shit. Who is going to play a game about wetwork top secret government cover up operations about international conflict without expecting some politics to be involved.

What people don't want is shit where identity politics are forced into something that shouldn't have anything to do with them. Or even worse things like Sony censorship where "sexy woman bad" for no reason.

>reee I have bad reading comprehension and have been accidentally using strawman all this time so I'm going to lash out

What strawman did I make? Are you saying Yea Forums doesn't complain about politics in games?

Kojima did politics interesting in Metal Gear. He never really tried forcing a viewpoint on the player either. This is in complete contrast to what every western SJW libtard is doing in their games.

No you fucking retard. You literally said it perfectly foreshadowed real life Which shows that you're literally too low iq to comprehend what I'm saying.

Just don't listen to Yea Forums, it's a den of incels.

>The worrying thing is that the authoritarian means it proposes to use to try and rectify the problem are tools which are starting to be used now. Just look at information control in China.
Just look at information control everywhere. His solution is already in place, and it is what created the problem in the first place.

Stop making this thread you incel trash.

>don't want your shitty "All or nothing" fallacy, bro
How is it a fallacy? Yea Forums complains about politics in games, we have this guy taking issue with communism being presented as good meaning that this isn't identity politics only.

Also, identity politics is politics, meaning that Yea Forums only dislikes politics when it's the kind that they don't like. Yea Forums also hypocritically has different standards for when Japanese games do something like making a woman playable because of political assumptions.

But that's not me? You couldn't tell there were more than one people replying to you even though your posts have multiple replies each? The fuck?

...

Imagine being this deluded about a shitty "stealth" videogame series' treatment of politics.
>What people dont want are games influenced by shitty IDENTITY politics which are used by both sides to divide everyone over dumb non issues instead of focusing on real issues
The games don't divide people. People divide themselves over their opinions on said "non-issues", which is the proof that they are genuine issues.

Lol you dumb piece of shit. So what is your problem with what I said? The colonels pretext is fraudulent, so any conclusion he talks about is completely uninteresting, not deep, or relatable in any way or fashion.

you give the government too much credit. If anything they were trying to push hilary, everyone thought she was going to win and forced the idea that she would.

these people all created these contexts THEMSELVES by believing any confirmation bias bullshit that got posted on FB and then sharing it in their echo chamber friends list, spreading it on down the line to everyone else. Trump won entirely based on this principal, against all odds, all based on people hearing what they wanted to hear and passing it on.

he was right, people on both sides are absolutely not fit to create context. The people on one side make every fight about identity politics, the other side makes every fight about the opposite side, It creates no room for compromise.

>it is what created the problem in the first place.
There's definitely a chicken and egg argument here.
What the AI is saying is that it's human nature to associate with similar groups to you, and the internet was an unprecedented platform for that to happen on.
Once upon a time people would have to physically meet, or send physical or analog correspondence to meet and discuss these things, and governments were well adapted to challenge this.
Governments were slow to react to the rise of the internet because it evolved so fast, so the AI was talking about a feared loss of control.
The ability to control information over the internet on a mass scale wasn't developed for quite a long time after its inception.
It certainly would have been technically possible, but not really viable at the time.
So no, I don't think what the AI is describing did cause the perceived problem, but it may well have made it worse

>The colonels pretext is fraudulent
No shit, sherlock. Almost like this whole time you have been arguing against something nobody said, dumbfuck.
>so any conclusion he talks about is completely uninteresting, not deep, or relatable in any way or fashion.
Doubtful about what this "conclusion" you think he's talking about entails. Because judging by what you've said so far, you think his conclusion is something about how they're in the right.

But regarding anything they've said, the dilemma about censorship being good or not definitely applies in real life. NO don't bring up anything else he said like you've kept doing, that doesn't apply here and NO nobody thinks he's right.

>you give the government too much credit. If anything they were trying to push hilary, everyone thought she was going to win and forced the idea that she would.
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything at all about Trump.

Google was controlling context during the 2016 election in many ways, for example by censoring search suggestions about Hillary that painted her in a bad light.

Despite what you might believe Trump didn't win thanks to any echo chamber, he won despite all the echo chambers. All the controllers were working against him. Trumps biggest center of support was Yea Forums which is the complete opposite of an echo chamber, it is free flow of information, where anyone can say what they want and nobody is contextualized away. Too bad Trump turned out to just be another worthless puppet.

Because Metal Gear Politics is has about relevant things like free will, doing what you truely believe in etc..

Compared to changing a character established sexual orientation for a political agenda sound like completely fucking irrevalent in the grand scheme of things especially if it's to make you feel like a saint when you are just an hypocrite who only care about his image....

...

It's predicated on a lie. In the early days of the internet discussion was more open and there were fewer echo chambers and context control. As governments and multinationals gained more control of the internet the context got controlled and the echo chambers were created. The powers that be wants echo chambers, they want to control context, they want people in isolated groups, it makes them easier to control.

we've already had this thread half a dozen times in recent memory
MGS was written by easterners and so the politics it speaks of are generally more global and less preachy about specific social issues specific to certain areas
whereas a game written by someone in California will generally be about subjects we are already beaten over the head with like identity politics and mainstream ideology presented heavy handedly by being directly referred to rather than being portrayed in the actual piece of media itself

lol it's always so easy to spot the Trump fanatic right wing brainlets in these threads because they're incapable of presenting an argument without resorting to hurling expletives like an edgy teenager

>the dilemma about censorship being good or not definitely applies in real life
It absolutely does not. You're stupid.

(You)s don't count when you just give them to yourself, lmao

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So you're saying they were right?

he also didn't give an example. Typical "capitalism bad so communism must be good" rhetoric is just as braindead as identity politics.
I never denied they were not politics, the problem is it's retarded shit to argue about and doesn't bring any insight to anything. It's like arguing about whether green or purple is a better color.

Well shit what an amazingly convincing argument.

I don't support Trump you brainlet.

Can you read?

>he also didn't give an example
So what? What matters is the person here, even if there were literally no arguments ever, it shows that it isn't identity politics only since he has a problem when communism is presented as good.

Also, again, the point is that Yea Forums complains about politics in games but is okay with them when they don't disagree with them. They also hypocritically have different standards when a japanese developer does the exact same thing a western dev does like making a woman playable.

>In the early days of the internet discussion was more open and there were fewer echo chambers
No, I'd definitely disagree with that.
Relative to the number of people that regularly use the internet as a platform for discussion, the number of independent communities for different views has always been in proportionate to the number of people online.
Of course there's more of it now because we have much easier access, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist in the same format in the early days, there were just less users in general.
And yes, now there's more opportunity for control because governments finally managed to play catch up in the past ten years

That wasn't an argument.

You're saying echo chambers were made, just like the Patriots said.

Half of what Yea Forums calls identity politics is just "current day affairs" which have always been injected into games, the issue is that now we have a bunch of 15-16 year olds on Yea Forums who have been primed to believe otherwise by /pol/aks and stormcunts.

I mean for fucks sake we have quasi-mcarthy levels of paranoia about communism going on now, where if you criticise a clearly broken system in a way beyond "da jews" you're literally Lenin.

This, fucking embarrassing

You don't say.

Echo chambers were created by the establishment in order to set the context, not by the people exchanging information freely.

What are you referring to?

>The issue is that now we have a bunch of 15-16 year olds on Yea Forums who have been primed to believe otherwise by /pol/
This user gets it, /thread

Taking Yea Forums's opinion on anything to do with Japan is a losing battle from the start. The degree of orientalism this board has is staggering, and it's not even just the standard Yea Forums brand of Japan worship. (Which is impressive considering half of Yea Forums considers things that most Japanese people never think about to be a deep and meaningful bit of linguistics)

youtu.be/kF5BVpMcMy8

I thought we were discussing context about how his commentary applies IRL.
I was just giving an example. DESPITE all the fenegaling by leftist supporters, Trump still won because people heard what they wanted to hear aka "fuck minorities" despite everyone with half a brain knowing he was a liar and a crook, so is Hillary but at least she has political experience and would have listened to advisors. Both sides were very much echo chambers, but trump side moreso. Echo chambers aren't places with controllers, they are anywhere that you are hearing what you want to hear. People on Yea Forums are definitely in an echo chamber, if you have been here even 6 or 7 years you know plenty of context with SJW shit sneaking into media, people on Yea Forums getting upset with it, this being the only place on the internet openly opposed to it.
Maybe the others are in an echo chamber but so are we.

In context of the game, none of those things are the AI's fault. GW explains that S3 is designed to stress test their own ability to mitigate information and filter context. They didn't create any of the problems, humans did by creating information technology.
In the end he tells you that he doesn't even need to convince you, all they needed to do was convince Jack that they had Rose, giving him no choice but to eliminate Solidus for them.

The McCarthyist type of thinking is coming from leftists screaming about Russia or /pol/ or whatever.

Well first of all the fact remains that echo chambers were made just like they said they would, second, do you actually know that or do you think that echo chambers weren't also made by people exchanging information? I mean right here on this website there's a couple boards that could be described as "echo chambers" despite the anonymity. There's also discussion boards like resetera which are the strictest definition of an echo chamber and it was made by simple ex-neogaf members, unless you wanna say that was also the establishment.

Of course they weren't created by the establishment, people naturally use their own means to seek out and engage people with similar views. That's happened since ancient times, with cults and shit.
The internet just provided an unprecedented platform for it, and the establishment didn't create that, otherwise it would have had those controls in place since the beginning, which it definitely didn't.
Echo chambers are just communities where people validate each other's similar opinions. Saying that was set up by the establishment is basically saying that the government set up every online community to control people, that's just ridiculous and stupid.

No it isn't, this is bog standard shit that happens in the US, if you weren't 15 you'd remember the massive drama 10 years ago when Obama won the election where conservatives wouldn't shut up about how he's kenyan, or how he's the anti-christ, or muslim, etc. Then before that you had vote rigging allegations against bush, etc. This is not new.

Even the "ORANGE MAN BAD" isn't new, bush bashing was common place.

Metal Gear isn't about current politics.

Hell, they did MAGA before Trump did.

Art can, and should influence politics.
Going the other way, you're simply making propaganda.

>Trumps biggest center of support was Yea Forums
Jeez, there are people that actually believe this?

>Metal Gear isn't about current politics.
And?

>Half of what Yea Forums calls identity politics is just "current day affairs"
Point examples.

Ok I might have misunderstood exactly what echo-chamber means, hopefully my argument is still understandable. Trump didn't say fuck minorities lmao. I need to sleep it's almost 3 am.

Oh. Sorry. The bottom of my post must have been cut off.

>Art can, and should influence politics.
>Going the other way, you're simply making propaganda.

Hope that helps!

I'm asking what does that have to do with the thread. Yeah, it's not current politics, but it's still politics, which is the point of the thread.

go back to twitter

Anything that takes a jab at a sitting US president, anything that uses brexit as a backdrop.

I said post examples.

It's always lowest common denominator establishment approved CNN tier "critique". If they actually said something that was a threat to anyone in power they wouldn't find anyone to publish the game, let alone get good review scores.

>I might have misunderstood exactly what echo-chamber means
That much is evident, and your argument is mostly irrelevant because of that lack of understanding

>Trump didn't say fuck minorities lmao
Not outright, but a lot of his supporters believe that's his view, which isn't even a million miles off

>That much is evident, and your argument is mostly irrelevant because of that lack of understanding
There are many ways to control context.

I mean, he did say "Why do we want all these people from 'shithole countries' coming here?", he's also called Nigeria a shithole and more recently told a minority to go back to the country they came from.

I agree, I was being kind of ridiculous, but it is how a lot of his voters saw it. It was a platform of xenophobia, there is no denying the wall was his biggest promise of the campaign. I have no reason to drag anything else into this, I don't want to argue my own politics here since it isn't the point of the discussion.

information controlled by the establishment is definitely a thing, everyone knows that Hilary rallies had way less people than Bernie ones, but hers were the ones that got more press. Echo chambers are sought out by the free will of the browser, it's just the natural evolution of confirmation bias on a whole other level

You're deluded if you think Yea Forums was Trump's largest support base. It has roughly 10 million users across the world, and nowhere near all of them are from the US or necessarily support Trump. He had 60 million votes in total, the NRA was a much bigger support base than Yea Forums was remotely close to being.

isn't being a tranny pretty much overcoming genetics and not letting it determine who you are?

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based brainlet

There's politics and there's retarded shit that your jewish college professor told you. Modern western video game writing falls under the latter

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Are you even able to put together a sentence without having to say the word 'context'? Your entire understanding seems to focus on that one particular line of the colonel's dialogue, to the point where you now appear to be ignoring half of what's been discussed above to just cut back to that same line again

There is a difference in the politics people are complaining about these days and the political statement in MGS. A HUGE difference.

People like politics that follow their own beliefs and morals. Put populist politics in a game and nobody gives a fuck, put leftist/rightist shit and it'll be a backlash.

His whole solution was about controlling context.

this is still an all or nothing fallacy, by very definition it is a fallacy which means it is poor rhetoric for any argument at all.
Treating Yea Forums like we are all one person is retarded. People have different problems with different things, exceptions don't prove the rule and the opposite isn't true either.

japanese devs get a pass because of context, something you can't understand for some reason.
They make female characters because they like them, they make characters that are attractive because they know no one wants ugly ones.
Western devs do it to virtue signal, or they take existing female characters like Lara Croft and make them shitty

Literally nobody has questioned that?
It's a completely separate point to what's been discussed here for the past hour or so

Nuclear dissuasion is cooler than faggots who think they're broads dipshit.

Political commentary is not the same thing as pushing ideology through a medium. It's fine for games to have politics in them, but academic social theory has no place in videogames

Context is controlled in order to isolate people, not the other way around.

Using political themes in your backstory to build a believable universe while not taking any particular stance is not the same thing as producing the gaming equivalent of a Chick Tract or a Drug Awareness Commercial.

Not everyone on Yea Forums is one person, you're strawmanning.

nobody had a problem with assassins creeds cartoony depictions of historical figures until they let you play as a woman

>genuine and/or fantasy real world multinational conspiratorial espionage politics
>tranny intersectional feminist identity politics
Totally the same bro. Quality opinion.

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No, the point of the thread is: "Why is Metal Gear given a pass for being political when we constantly complain about politics in games?"

And, to restate my answer: Metal Gear is the source of its politics: It's exploring decades of history and writing on the topics it wants to explore. Once it's synthesized its conclusions, it delivers them in the story: It is a source of political thought.

The games that are complained about are the subject of modern political thought instead, treating the game as a vehicle for the creator's political ideas.

To summarize, there's a major difference between "I made this game to explore the relationship of power, justice and ideals." and "I made this game to BTFO

You're a special kind of retard

People don't want zero politics in their games, they just don't want extreme wacko politics like you see pushed today in their games. It's pretty simple.

So the solution is simple, stop just saying "politics in games" and say "current politics" or "identity politics" instead. Isn't that right, OP?
Of course not. Nothing is enough short of admitting collective responsibility for hypocrisy on all of Yea Forums's part when it' s obvious their use of the word "politics" is shorthand for all of the above issues, but of course you decide to disingenuously take it the wrong way.
Go back to discord with your feeble attempt at a "raid"

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It's not that I don't care about games having politics, it's that I just hate women and minorities.

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I think the isolation you're referring to there is the same as we previously discussed, echo chambers. Independent communities of people with a shared view that validate each other that they do not move on from.
As explained before, these were not created as a means to control people, they evolved naturally.
The controls were retroactively developed once governments worked out how it could be done on a large scale, mainly due to advances in algorithmic computing.
I really think you need to read up some more on what echo chambers actually are, because you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term and are putting far too much emphasis on that one particular phrase the colonel uses about context.
And yes, as I acknowledged before, controlling that is the AI's solution. But that's still just a very small part of what it's saying

kinda based

this place is full of fucking schitzos, no wonder none listens to reason or admits they are wrong

>Stating that war and nuclear weapons are bad
>Your political opinions are wrong and I'll use this game to explain why. We're going to alieniate these specific people because we feel superior about our opinions
These things are not the same. Using politics to create a conversation is not the same as using politics to force a view/agenda onto people. For me it's about execution, a game can have trannies, identity politics in it etc as long as it's done well and isn't clearly forced. Imagine a collectathon game, you get 100/150 of whatever and a small cutscene plays. "you're doing well! but it's a shame you're white, did you apologise for that yet?"

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Well, that's like your opinion, cisgender.

Trump is a jew loving faggot.
I bet you feel all bigbrained assuming you know jack shit about politics and what people think, don't you?
Newsflash pal: you don't know shit

Based

because Signit from MGS3 will always be better than any tranny nig hollywood tries to push
rest in sweet piece sig

MGS isn't trying to alienate anyone

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This but unironically

>moves US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem
>does pretty much everything he can to be pro Israel
/pol/ fags are idiots, can't believe they still like him.

Who would win in an arms race, Sigint or Drebin?

Because it actually correctly predicted the future

>/pol/ is one person
A lot don't like him anymore, but you can't have any real discussion on the subject without
>REEE SLIDE THREAD
>SHILL/SHAREBLUE
>I'M WITH HER NOW

Most of /pol/ hates Trump. The neocons have pretty much locked themselves up in /ptg/ or gone back to r/T_D

anti racism and wolfenstrien go hand and hand, shitting on a publicly provided racist figure seems to be a logical way to market it

based and honestpilled

cringe and hypocritepilled

You guys are missing the point. It is sjw bullshit that people have issues with in gaming.

Theres a big difference between using actual real world events/politics to create an interesting backdrop or dedicating the plot and themes to exploring philosophies or real world quandaries in a unique and interesting way, and then the usual "less white people, more brown people, trannies, gays and obnoxious women! That'll show DRUMPF!" that AAA games prefer to do.

>For me it's about execution, a game can have trannies, identity politics in it etc as long as it's done well
Based CDPR doing it well
I

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>failing to realize Trump is secretly destroying Israel's reputation

Brainlet detected

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The problem is identity politics /is/ politics now. It's all that is ever talked about. That is what is tiring, and that is what people mean when they say they're tired of political crap.

Did you just turn 18 yesterday because nobody ever took Assassins creed history seriously and everyone critiqued its depictions like Da Vinci

It gets even worse when you realize people are just ignoring actual issues in favor of identity politics

Considering it's a statement on how companies exploit SJWs for money by haphazardly appealing to them, yeah.

There's a difference between pushing a political agenda and simply having politics in the game you fucking retards.

Stop putting fucking story in games, period.
Goddamn, kids. It's that goddamn motherfucking simple.

>The problem is identity politics /is/ politics now. It's all that is ever talked about.
It certainly is on Yea Forums and most of Yea Forums, possibly even disproportionately so on the internet in general, but it's certainly not the only politics that is discussed out in the real world.

No identity politics in games period, and less contemporary politics in games unless you actually have something unique to say and an interesting way to depict it.

Characters like Max form Life is Strange aren't "already established"

They are orginal?

>Unless you actually have something unique to say and an interesting way to depict it.
That's entirely subjective though

This

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They are a bunch of manchildren. Imagine being afraid of finding a political opinion on something while reading a book or listening to music.
Just fucking grow up.

On point

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Politics in games back then were generally about more greatly relatable and relevant topics. As for the Metal Gear series, you have censorship, nuclear arms, proxy/profit wars, AI, etc. Modern games politics are about what agenda the developers want to score points on. They don't want you to think. That's the main difference.

LOL well if you're ok being brainwashed into a communist tranny, don't let me stop you bro!

Isn't politics in Metal Gear just basically government conspiracies? Yea Forums loves that shit. Modern day video game politics literally boils down to tranny shit which Yea Forums hates and rightly so because that shit is gay as fuck.

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every game where the villain wants world dominations is basically saying "imperialism bad", but nobody has a problem with that because everyone pretty much agrees with it

Evolutionary psychology isn't science

>Modern games politics are about what agenda the developers want to score points on.
What a sweeping and ignorant statement

People don't mind politics, per se; however, people are pretty tired of hearing about race/gender -- and also most of that content is extremely creatively-bankrupt.

Deus Ex showed you can have politics in a game and it's not an issue. BFV showed you can have politics in a game and it be a major issue.

Why did one succeed and another flounder? Doesn't seem too obscure a reason.

>politics to flesh out game world and make player think about different sides of things
>good

>politics to push an agenda and disavow reality
>bad

it's really this simple

the real world =/= video games

>BFV showed you can have politics in a game and it be a major issue
But it wasn't a major issue at all, you just think it was because you've been exposed to a disproportionate amount of backlash on Yea Forums.
The average cod/battlefield player didn't give a shit.

Games with political backdrops to the narrative =/= games with political agendas

if The Boss was a character is a modern western game you would screech in rage

That statement I was responding to, 'identity politics /is/ politics now' wasn't about video games specifically, and if it was it was incorrectly phrased.
And it was still be stupid to insinuate that there's no other political commentary in contemporary video games other than about identity politics.

and you're the one to make that distinction why

>child soldiers, war, nuclear weapons are bad
>This person is a white male and I don't like it
pick one

this tbqh

If The Boss was a character in a modern Western game she'd be a stereotyped caricature who espouses blunt, obtrusive sociopolitical diatribes instead of meaningful dialogue and motivations

>y-you g-gommunisd dranniee

cool argument bro

No, it was a major issue because the playerbase could've obviously been higher prior to their move and they alienated a good chunk of not only potential buyers but active players because of their stint.

It wasn't even a unique issue on Yea Forums. Their move was pretty widely discussed outside of Yea Forums.

>modern games have women that arent forced in
>doesnt cause an uproar
>other games have women that logically make no sense being there
>does cause an uproar
this isnt complicated you stupid nigger

Because I can tell the difference between talking about politics and being the kind of person who say "all the boogeymen I don't like should be punished because I am society's chosen/unchosen!"

Only if she was quoting leftist dribble about how she don't need man and sheit

>feigning an apolitical stance whenever the subject matter refers to certain (liberal) politics
news at 11

>but it's certainly not the only politics that is discussed out in the real world.

It will become talked about more soon. So, expect it to become a larger talking point in the real world -- even if it generally doesn't lead anywhere productive.

No it's not, in the same way most agree when a movie is fucking shit or had little effort put into it.

I have a feeling OP was just simply baiting us.

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When people say "stop putting politics in games", its actually like if people said "stop putting music in games" when they actually mean "stop putting the crazy frog song" because the fanatics for the crazy frog songs claim that they represent all the music in the world and the retards asking to remove music believe on em.
Modern politics are shit, crazy frog shit, with the donger and all.

because it's intelligent and nuanced

Identity politics =/= actual political discourse

That's interesting, though. Why hasn't a modern Western game included a Boss character, when she remains one of the best, strongest, most honorable women in video games? And how did MGS3 handle her so well?

what these people mean is stop shoehorning the designer's personal politics into games when it doesn't add anything of value at best and detracts at worst.

>literay one woman caused all of the distress seen ITT

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>Alienated a good chunk of not only potential buyers but active players because of their stint.
You're still massively overestimating the impact of it, I can assure you that a massive majority of the playerbase doesn't care.
Yes, I mean it certainly will have had an impact and reduce the potential number of players on launch, but only by a relatively small amount and by no means enough to be a "major issue".
It's still shipped at least 10 million units.
And yes, there was some reporting on the backlash by some gaming sites, but why do you think that is?
Because people from here will go there in droves to have their opinion validated, to share the story here and drive their ad revenues.

I won't dispute that, but that's not remotely close to the statement "identity politics is the only politics that's talked about"

A lot of people unironically believe that Twitter and imageboards dominate political opinion across the US

Tbf on the democrat side Twitter is pretty big, but certainly not a dominant force
But to think that Yea Forums was even a major element of Trump's overall voterbase is just plain stupid.

>You can't fight nature, faggot.

Based Memesoon

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there's nuance and subtlety and then there's heavy handed preaching

>he thinks this all started with Sarkeesian
I miss 2014, it was so much simpler back then

After 2013 is when crybabies started to pour in

>Cold war which hasbeen over for 40years
vs
>You can be any gender you want to be

It was a war plot. Literally no one has ever cared about a war plot in video games retard. Back to Fortnite.

Yea Forums is wary about politics because western writers always choose to insert the most cringy hot topic issues we hear about all day "BREXIT BAD", "RACISM BAD", "SEXISM BAD". It's cliche, hamfisted, and usually has stereotypical strawman in place of any subtlety.

Raikov's portrayal leans far more in the opposite direction. He wears speedos for comedic effect and Boss calls his mask a "fairy disguise." Vamp is goth-bi and Volgin probably just liked warm holes starting out, being a soldier used to combat tours and using whatever's there.

I feel the big difference is that there are games that use politics, and then there are politics that use games. In other words, MGS used the politics it talked about to make a more believable and engaging world, whereas a lot of people make a game to push their politics in sacrifice to the world it's attempting to create. Take BFV's prosthetic flagship lady which as far as I've seen, her missing limbs add no purpose to the game and if anything add to the uncanniness of it, whereas pic related sacrificed her arms as part of the process to make her the ultimate weapon and to show how far the military in this world would go to make that happen. That said I think people jump at fucking anything and complain about it, but there is definitely plenty of clear situations in which political opinions were hamfisted in without noticeable benefit other than as an obvious marketing ploy.

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Who are they supposed to represent? I tried looking this up but no one is talking about it.

Trumps actual biggest center of support was the modern left's retardation

Yea Forums was a scapegoat for the alt-right and it made /pol/ think they have some sort of influence over politics. a bit similar to people who think AOC has a shot at running for president at any point because she has a loud, huge following on twitter.

I think you nailed it. Politics in MGS are a means of world building and contextualizing the character conflicts that make up the real meat of the storytelling. Insofar as personal politics, "war is bad" isn't all that controversial and anti-nuclear comes as no surprise in a Japanese game.

time.com/5191182/trump-video-games-violence/
Fuck off from Yea Forums drone

Yeah MGS is about you being more than your genes and what you pass on genetically. MGS2 is about what you DONT pass on through your genes. Passing on your memories and knowledge

Kojima literaly said this in interviews

>Kojima literaly said this in interviews
I mean he also literally said it in the games
And in the case of MGS2 I do mean LITERALLY the game ends with Snake making a speech about passing on ideas and culture

Because this game used politics of it's own. it wasn't just mk11 NPC bullshit. it wasnt alt right shit either. it just didnt have any of the current politics in it. look at mk11. 5yrs down the line itll be stale and dated as hell. So the usa can shove both sides of its brainwashed bullshit up its ass.