>There are still anons who clearly haven't played all of the MGS games who think they can understand MGSV better than the anons that actually have MGSV is the story of how Big Boss became an evil maniac by parasitically abusing his most loyal soldier (thus giving the perfect reason for his downfall), The Medic, through secretly manipulating said soldier to become his body double slave so that he can fuck off to Africa and fulfill his perpetual warmongering dream. Big Boss is the actual villain of the game, not Skullface, and The Medic is entirely his own character and there's never a single moment in the game that suggests that he's your self insert.
Even as a body double of Big Boss, The Medic still differed from Big Boss because he was weaker, mute, a nice person and even a pacifist. Plus, despite being implanted with Big Boss' memories, he hated his demon, which represents who Big Boss truly is, and he also hated war and thought that NUKES = BAD like Solid Snake and wanted to go home, evidenced by how he accepted The Boss, lovingly repaired her bandana (showing how much he appreciated her and her will, unlike Big Boss) and vowed to disarm the all the nukes in the entire world to follow her will (which is world peace and a nuke free world), which is a stark but appropriate contrast to Big Boss rejecting The Boss, her bandana, and her will, and vowing to hoard all the nukes in the entire world, since he, unlike The Medic, had no sense of morality, lusted war and thought that NUKES = GOOD. Simply put, The Medic is the antithesis of Big Boss, just like Solid Snake. Red oni, blue oni, yin and yang. Big Boss and The Medic.
That alone makes The Medic clearly THE SUPERIOR BIG BOSS AND THUS A BETTER MAN THAN BIG BOSS. FACT.
The Medic is extremely honorable, selfless, generous, giving. He is also compliant, obedient and loyal to whoever he thinks his master is (which unfortunately allowed him to be tricked by Big Boss to be his shield, scapegoat and tool whose main function is to die for him and his personal benefit, this is where Solid Snake knew better not to fall for these kinds of traps). In contrast, Big Boss is savage, dishonorable, disloyal, psychopathic, rebellious, ruthless, selfish, egocentric, cold and calculative.
The tape was all about Big Boss convincing The Medic to be his slave. It was never making any inspirational sayings or thoughtful messages towards the player. It was never informing the player that "Big Boss is really a 100% nice, altruistic, benevolent, charitable, giving, kind-hearted, ingenuous, sweet, selfless and good guy and he'll prove it by giving the ability to officially roleplay AND be recognized as Big Boss to you, since you wanted to. Now do him a favor and put that role to good use so that you and him can help change the world, make a mark on history, and finish the story and legend of Big Boss, together". It was to get The Medic to go against his beliefs and do what he wants like the good little doll he is, you're never supposed to actually take anything from it seriously.
It is not a bunch of willy nilly roleplaying meta bullshit where Big Boss is some sort of "meta deity". Don't take any word from the same 3-4 autists that have been circulating Yea Forums for the past week who think otherwise. >It is not a bunch of willy nilly roleplaying meta bullshit where Big Boss is some sort of "meta deity". Don't take any word from the same 3-4 autists that have been circulating Yea Forums for the past week who think otherwise.
Bentley Sanchez
None of this is on the wiki
Ayden Edwards
Very accurate description of Venom Snake and his relationship with Big Boss, based
I didn't enjoy the game enough to decipher the convoluted mess that was its story
Isaiah Gray
>MGSV's story >Convoluted mess it's extremely straightforward You're the medic and you think you're the boss. that's literally the entire story
Josiah Roberts
and something about vocal cord parasites
Jaxson Morris
It's just the evil plot device. replace it with Genome Soldiers or PMCs or The Boss and it's every other MGS game
Jack Gray
Parasites/Nanomachines are a far worse plot device than any other one in MGS because they try to explain away the entire setting.
Juan Torres
Yes the game is unfinished but coming from someone who loves playing as nameless rank and file characters this was amazing to watch Kojima basically rip peoples fragile need to be the 'chosen one' and flip people on their head when they realize that they are not special. LOL
Vocal cord parasites have thematic relevance too, however heavy-handed and goofy they might be. The nanomachines in MGS4 also do, but unlike the parasites they're abused as an explanatory device. The parasites don't really explain away anything. You've got The End, I guess, but I wouldn't consider that major.
Joseph James
you're describing peace walker here I though you were going to talk about the mgs5 unfinished fanfiction
Eli King
based
Samuel Harris
This.
Easton Mitchell
>the same 3-4 autists that have been circulating Yea Forums for the past week who think otherwise. Literally what is their problem? They ruin every fucking MGS thread
Dylan Barnes
Great description of MGSV, OP 100% true to the game
t. played it for over 1000 hours
Dominic Wilson
Still feels like theres something missing. A truly Phantom Pain indeed. I was so angry at first, but years have passed and i finally accepted the truth. Bigboss fucked us over as so did kojima. As someone who played the entire saga since 1998, the pain this game inflicted will never go away. And that, my friends, is what makes something a masterpiece. Something that leaves a mark on you. Something you will always remember. Metal Gear is over, go on with your lives and be happy.
was Kojima too afraid to do a proper villain protagonist?
Henry Foster
This is the only explanation you need for why Venom > Big Boss based
Brandon Mitchell
Based
Michael Ramirez
all of this is in mgsv what the fuck are you attempting to achieve with this lame sleight?
Matthew Flores
The Medic is an unreliable narrator. We can't take anything that happened in MGSV at face value. He could have hallucinated every single cutscene or truth tape we saw. He already hallucinated the scenes with Paz, as well as the cutscenes that Paz gave him. We know for fact that at least these are hallucinations.
For all we know, Venom Snake could still be the real Big Boss who has convinced himself that he's another guy because his subconscious can't handle the attoricities that Big Boss has commited. So, to avoid seeing himself as a bad person, he says "I'm Venom Snake, the medic, the good guy.", and "all the warmongering is done by the bad guy, the real big boss" who surprisingly looks exactly like him and has the same skillset.
My personal theory is that MGSV is about a bad person who can't accept who he is, so he becomes delusional, and his delusions are helped by the fact that he was in a coma for 9 years and had a giant piece of shrapnel stuck in his forehead/skull.
>TL;DR: Venom is an unreliable narrator, so every single cutscene and tape can be a hallucination. It's just as likely that Venom is just Big Boss pretending he's someone else because he can't handle the guilt.
I think the role-play stand-in can still work, maybe as a result of the player's dissonance to want to be a successful player who saves people, achieves all the goals, isn't a villain and has been fed the mythology of Big Boss that seems so at odds with his villainy during MG. Like an attempt to play Big Boss the way we "know" him, go against what the legends and narratives always say about heroes and villains.
Robert Gray
As well as the tapes paz gave him*
Xavier Hill
>The Medic is an unreliable narrator. We can't take anything that happened in MGSV at face value. He could have hallucinated every single cutscene or truth tape we saw. He already hallucinated the scenes with Paz, as well as the cutscenes that Paz gave him. We know for fact that at least these are hallucinations.
You fail english 202 with this kind of fan fiction crap. An anime image is, honestly, not surprising when paired with a dumb shit post like yours.
Noah Scott
>Venom Snake is Big Boss >Venom Snake is NOT Big Boss >Venom Snake is a better man than Naked Snake, he accepted The Boss and is thus a good person. >Venom Snake is not a better man than Naked Snake, he rejected The Boss too and is thus a big, evil meanie, especially for being extremely eager and complicit with carrying on the Outer Heaven Uprising for Naked Snake and intentionally killing "one of his own men". >Venom Snake is the player >Venom Snake is his own character >Venom Snake punching the mirror shows his hatred for his demon >Venom Snake punching the mirror shows him accepting his demon >Venom Snake punching the mirror shows that he wants to be defined by neither a demon nor an angel, but rather Big Boss >Venom Snake punching the mirror means absolutely nothing, stop trying to think that this shitty game is deep >Venom Snake rejected being Big Boss and thus wanted to rebel against Naked Snake when he learned the truth >Venom Snake accepted being Big Boss when he learned the truth Are there any other characters in video games that leave people massively confused (and as a result, spewing contradicting interpretations) when trying to understand them?
Kayden Gonzalez
He's literally an unreliable narrator. You can't take anything that happened in the game seriously. All his interactions with Paz were delusions. All the tapes that Paz gave him were delusions. Kaz was even there in some of those cutscenes, and he was acting perfectly normal. It proves that Snake wasn't just hallucinating Paz, but he was also hallucinating Kaz in those scenes with her. And Kaz wasn't acting strange at all.
Jordan Adams
Probably Konami really did stop him. Imagine if Kojima carried out his original plan >you're killing children left and right >training your own kidnapped child soldiers >it's obvious that Mother Base troops are all tortured and brainwashed into serving you >side ops are mainly terrorist attacks >Quiet actually gets raped instead of almost raped (tm) The game would have cost Konami $80 million to make and would never have made it onto shelves, the SJWs and Glen Beck would all have pitched a fit of epic proportions. Kojima might have single handedly torpedoed the entire vidya industry by putting out Metal Gear Solid: A Serbian Film
Mason Richardson
Venom Snake represented the National League in the 1991 MLB All-Star Game
Julian Ortiz
Why do you try to just use ur argument for its story as justification that the game isn’t actually bad. I pretty much agree with what you said, and I think the consensus from most people here is that the Medic is a pretty based character at the end of the day. Not paying attention to the games poor pacing, lack of true sandbox gameplay (mechanics are solid, set pieces to actually use them in are LACKING), atrocious last act, is totally missing why people are hyper critical of this game. I don’t even need to start about the fact that the game somehow managed to end with a telekinetic super child in control of a literal giga mecha just fucking off and somehow that’s just okay.
Logan Morris
>He's literally an unreliable narrator. You can't take anything that happened in the game seriously. wow so interesting, let's all stop talking about anything then. especially you.
Julian Morris
>That alone makes The Medic clearly THE SUPERIOR BIG BOSS AND THUS A BETTER MAN THAN BIG BOSS. FACT. Big Boss became evil because of his life experiences, Medic became evil because Big Boss told him to.
don’t make such a self defeating fan theory that literally can’t be discussed then
Isaiah Nelson
MGSV is a game that didn't need to exist. That arc of Big Boss finally embracing his destiny happened in Peace Walker. Nobody before dumbfuck MGSV Medic even questioned how Big Boss was alive between MG and MG2 because he's supposedly bad ass enough to survive and escape a facility blowing up. But no, now the official story is that BB is a fucking pussy who has to go in hiding while his doppelganger has to put on the Big Boy pants and do his job. All MGSV does is display Kojima didn't want to work on the series anymore, milked Konami of any money he'd use to get into Justine's pants, which he is now doing at Sony with Norman Retus and the Funky Fetus. It's all a sham and you fucking idiots keep falling for it.
Kojimbo mentioned early on in development that he wanted the game to be darker and made cryptic statements about how this game might destroy his career if it doesn't work out the way he wants, everything else is Fan wank but believable Fan wank because heroism points are useless in the final game since you can barely ever lose them. Killing kids loses heroism points but it's also a mission failed immediately so the assumption was that it originally wasn't a game over.
Benjamin Carter
Are we continuing that thread from yesterday? If so: Why is canon such a hard thing to discuss for this game? Is it because games did not come out in a linear timeline and the writing self contradicts or something else? Pic related.
I'm not convinced my argument is self defeating but alright, you do you I guess.
Adam Torres
How much have you played the game OP? Just curious
James Murphy
>it’s all a hallucination and we can’t take anything that happened seriously literally what do you discuss after that?
Ayden Williams
Because most of this game is intentionally made ambiguous so that retards will argue over it. Therefore you have idiots like OP projecting their bullshit about how Venom is somehow "weak" and a "pacifist" lmao.
Isaac Williams
Pretty good analysis. Only thing I would say is that The Boss believed in soldiers laying down their arms. >He is also compliant, obedient and loyal to whoever he thinks his master is
David Diaz
>can't into stories or thought >hurrr convoluted mess
Matthew Young
Except Medic is a chosen one as well.
Brody Powell
But the only right way to play the game is no silencers, lethal rounds, and if you unintentionally trip an alarm to murder every thing in sight until things calm down again. Jeep and Ddog optional.
Landon Nelson
I take it you're a Kingdom Hearts fan?
Dominic Phillips
>game is actually darker than previous games, but only just barely >attempts a “it’s supposed to be bad, that’s the point” kind of narrative structure with an over inflated budget that could have jeopardized his career I think most of that post was just fanwank, user.
Ryder Diaz
Because the MGS "canon" is irrelevant to MGSV. All it is is the anti-MGS2. MGS2 had all this demeaning shit to drive home the point that the player isn't at all in control in a story driven game like that. MGSV does the opposite, sacrificing story so that it can put the player on a pedestal, saying that nothing could have come of MGS if not for the players playing and enjoying the games "I'm big boss and so are you".
It's not deep or even that clever, it's a very obvious message, which makes it all the more baffling that MGS fags can't accept it and just obsess over meaningless "canon" bullshit. There is no grand MGS story arc, each game is an individual story, the lore has no message or meaning which is why kojima is perfectly happy to contradict it any time it gets in the way of making a better game.
Lincoln Bell
Agreed. And the Soviet soldiers acknowledge this when they tell stories of how Venom fights "like a demon". Hence why OP is absolutely full of shit when he says that Venom is "weak" or a "pacifist". Also Venom is the player because in the truth intro Naked gives him a signed photograph that says "good luck [insert whatever name you put in when the game asked your name in the beginning], -"Vic" Boss".
Carter Davis
Good questions, you're hitting on something central I think. I really think a lot of the inside baseball knowledge we have about the production and what could have been gets in the way, allows people to infer their way into weird spaces where they find holes in MGSV. In some ways this is allows for like an imaginary version of the game to overtake the real one, and people don't see what is going on with The Medic and Big Boss, or their stand-in and role that MGSV thrusts upon them, they only see a confused thing that isn't something else that they've created in their head.
Jeremiah Hughes
Yup. So is OP post though so it all fits.
Easton Green
did you perhaps consider that some of the rumors were being shared with big boss? we know at the end that big boss doesn’t even change his face and that he was running his own, more covert operations. (actually maybe i’m wrong, so correct me if i am, but that’s what i remembered after beating it 4 years ago)
Hudson Richardson
I was just discussing Kojima being too much of a pussy do a proper villainous game staring BB, while OP seems to just be combining a “it’s really not that deep” with some Medic wank
Elijah Foster
>each game is an individual story, the lore has no message or meaning I don't think that's true, though. Kojima wanting to have his cake and eat it too doesn't mean the cake doesn't exist or never did. Even MGSV relies on previous Metal Gear games to establish its stories. Continuity matters to Metal Gear; Kojima is just more flippant about it than a lot of writers are.
Joshua Diaz
Legend and myth are central themes to MGS, and especially to the BB prequels. I agree with you, it's absurd to think the "lore" has no relevance across games.
Lincoln Baker
If Venom is the player... if he has the title of Big Boss... if the player's ME... and if I'm Dr. Ivo R-r-robotnik…
...then R-r-robotnik is the superior Big Boss, simply because...
>I am the biggest villain in town! I am a big, big villain! >I am a genius! >I have pr-roof, and I am telling you the tr-ruth. >I am cool, unlike Big Boss, who is a fool. (I HATE THAT SNAKE!) >I am a big, big villain!
Naked Snake was never in Afghanistan fighting the Soviet troops though, and they are the o es who talk about him being a demon who slaughters their troops.
Luke Torres
lol....
Evan Edwards
Most accurate summary of V and interpretation of Venom that I have read in a long time, 10/10
>MGSV is the story of how Big Boss became an evil maniac This is the problem with MGSV and to a lesser extent Peace Walker. The end of MGS3 told me everything I need to know about how Big Boss became a terrorist, and then Peace Walker told me more than enough detail after that, even though those details were dumb and shitty. This isn't filling in a missing part of the story it's just retreading old ground. I don't need to know the story of how Big Boss crossed a line by turning some guy into a slave copy of himself, I already have enough information on how he became evil.
Andrew Ortiz
MGS2 already did this though
Carter Baker
How did MGS3 tell you all that?
Ayden Moore
>There are people that actually hate Venom Snake
Jaxson Stewart
>Venom Snake could still be the real Big Boss who has convinced himself that he's another guy because his subconscious can't handle the attoricities that Big Boss has commited.
I thought i was the only one that believed that. Venom Snake just being Big Boss becoming schizo is an interesting theory
Jonathan Hall
MGS3's ending paints the selfishness of nations as the cause of BB's demise. Peace Walker was uneccessary and V was wasted potential.
Juan Hill
God bless OP BTFO'ing the retarded, moronic, subhuman brainlets on Yea Forums with actual facts We need more people like him.
It shows how he came to hate and distrust the governments and the origin of wanting a country just for soldiers who get used and tossed out by politicians and nations. Everything you need to know about the guy and how he becomes the villain of the first 2 games can be inferred from the end of that game.
Nathan Kelly
Nobody ever talks about the Paz storyline either, that resolution was beautiful, with the final tape, and scene with her.
>and the origin of wanting a country just for soldiers who get used and tossed out by politicians and nations. does this get conveyed really? besides refusing mr. president's handshake?
MGS3 alone doesn't, but from MG2 itself (or MGS1, via Liquid) we know that Big Boss was an accomplished mercenary and grew attached to war because he couldn't find any other purpose. MGS3 establishes his disillusionment with geopolitics and serves up a more specific explanation as to why he would want to try to take over the world. It even touches on his need for war by having him murder his way through emotions that other people might carry into battle.
Nicholas Edwards
Alright but who had the hardest life?
Ayden Miller
Think about what we know of Big Boss at the start of MGS3. He was a terrorist who started a country for soldiers. At the end of MGS3 we see him get betrayed by his government and made to kill the most important person in his life, a fellow soldier who the government killed and framed as a traitor because it was useful for them. It's easy to understand how he comes to hate these nations and wants start his own place for soldiers used and tossed out by their governments. Neither Peace Walker or phantom Pain add anything important, necessary or interesting to this story.
Evan Jenkins
>weaker His concept art shows that he's as physically strong as Big Boss retard
Daily reminder that Venom Snake is a nickname and that "Big Boss' phantom" is the body double's character name.
Lucas Gomez
The only touching part of MGSV alongside the soldiers saluting BB as he executes them.
Luke James
Reminder that Quiet clearly wanted Venom/Big Boss phantom inside her and the fact that he didn't do it makes him a homo
Elijah Wood
the Boss wanking got pretty ridiculous in PW, and even Skullface giving a shit about her felt tiresome
Cameron Powell
the entire series being about her vision was stupid
Jeremiah Allen
nomp
Jayden Moore
Venom Snake is his code name. BiBo's phantom is what they refer to him as in the script because his actual name is your name that you give him during character creation.
Carson Miller
I suspect he is secretly impotent after the injuries he suffered during the nuclear inspection. That is the only way I can imagine him spending months with her on that chopper and not pulling her thong off with his teeth after the first 2 minutes.
Leo Davis
It's a video game, why are all of you taking it seriously like morons?
Lincoln Gonzalez
No it doesn't? Soldier of a nation -> gets tricked and abused by that nation -> becomes enemy of that nation, what's disingenuous about that?
Josiah Mitchell
>98 replies >30 posters
Kevin Walker
What's the problem? Do you expect everyone to only post once in a thread?
Charles Walker
wow maybe you should samefagging
Angel Wright
*stop
Gavin Gomez
Even if he's impotent he could eat that nice pusy
Levi Stewart
>being beta enough to care if she cums >Venom Lmao. Focus on the mission, ho.
Dylan Torres
Analyzing any Metal Gear Solid story is a non-starter because they're never written to provide a cohesive addition to what previous games have already done. They're written metatextually with everything else flowing into that without giving any form of shit about what previous games have done. MGSV is a game about how the player's experiences are just as much part of the "story" as the actual writing and cutscenes, and how each player writes their own story with the choices they make in any given playthrough. That's really all there is.
Isaiah Brooks
>at last the story that was completed in MGS3 will be complete (for real this time) >taboos so great our director will be forced to leave the industry if it's taken badly >just who is this spooky burn face man that was really mean in Ground Zeroes? >enlist and exploit child soldiers >when you find out the true reason behind this fapbait character you will regret your words and deeds >the chapter bridging the 20 year gap between Peace Walker and the original Metal Gear is finally here >watch as Big Boss descends from the title of tragic hero into the monstrous megalomaniac villain he was fated to become
LOL JK YOU WERE A BRAINWASHED MEDIC THE WHOLE TIME WHO DINDU NUFFIN DID YOU RIKE IT?
John Campbell
we would have a lot more nuclear wielding terrorists coming from the US military over the past century if that were that simple and believable.
James Scott
Because that's only part of it. The rest is in MG2.
It always did piss me off that people didn't see Big Boss as the fucking asshole villain in MGSV. Full psycho, 100%. I never understood why Kojima protected BB so much though, he wanted him to be looked as Soldier Jesus so much.
Asher Smith
Because it's just a hole full of mucus. If he ain't nutting in it then she can go satisfy herself. The mission comes first.
Kojimas father died when he was very young. To him BiBo is a father figure he never had. That's why he also says he prefers to write BiBo over Solid
Oliver Wright
>Metal Gear Survive 2 Pachislot >cuts to coming 2019 on Xbox One and PS4 Nope
Benjamin Lopez
R E T ALERT R D
Jason Morris
Your bait failed stop digging a deeper hole
Andrew Hill
>I never understood why Kojima protected BB so much though I didn't really get the feeling that he did. All the stuff with Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland still stands. Even in PW and certainly MGSV he's a bit of an asshole.
Jaxson Foster
The Boss: >having personal feelings about your comrades is one of the worst sins you can commit
Venom snake >rubs the ashes of his fallen comrades in his face >makes them diamonds so he can hold onto them.
Brayden Watson
>bait >the obvious joke with the "pachislot" punchline >"lol i am so smart you didn't bait me this is cLEArLy f4ke lmao p0wneD"
You're literally, retarded.
Ian Phillips
>psychoanalyzed, AHH so you like to write stories about daddies!! *unplugs your ethernet*
