The absolute state of Overwatch esports lmao

>Literally forcing roles and taking away any and all chance for real entertainment
The most fun esports events of all time have involved some absurd out of left field meme roster. There is no interest in a stagnant system where creativity is dashed.

Ow is trash
Ow espurt is trash

>There is no interest in a stagnant system where creativity is dashed
They are forcing this shit because of their incompetence everyone is running 3 heal 3 tank comp or like so.

They did this because the optimal way to play the esport was boring as fuck 3 tank/ 3 healer snoozefests
balancing around the garbage esport as usual

>develops game based around hero compositions
>the meta develops and players find busted comps
>blizzard (being retarded) is unable to nerf that comp
>forces a rule that destroys the main concept of the game.

I'm so glad I quitted playing this monstrocity of a fucking game

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>They did this because the optimal way to play the esport was boring as fuck 3 tank/ 3 healer snoozefests
If that's the optimal way to play, then the game's balance is trash.

yes, correct
which is why no one plays overwatch anymore

So, blizzard is forcing shit on people because they are incapable of balancing. Business as usual then.

oh it is
but admitting that is effectively admitting that the people in charge of that dont deserve to still be employed

>not really an FPS and not really an assfaggots
>bland uninspired abilities, maps, controls, visuals
>riddled with gooks
it's a wonder it ever even started

>the game's balance is trash
Well, is a Blizzard game after all.

they really need to remove the fucking shields from the game, last time I played I spent like 90% of the game hitting some fucking shield ability, there's so many maps with chokepoints and shit that make shields mandatory to destroy, you can't really flank them and kill them, you need to god damn focus fire and 7 seconds later the shields are up again anyways.

I still remember watching a major LoL event and one of the dudes used an AP Tryndamere and completely fucked the meta for months.

This is why you had to overbuff shit like S76, McCree, Reaper, Genji and Tracer so they could mow down tanks and go on a slaughter, but they were too pussies and let tanks rape the playerbase and now they have a dead baby game. They want to make everything viable, truth is there is always going to be one strong thing that fucks up others and its about both teams trying to stop the other.

This shit was what killed league of legends for me. Getting banned for "not following the meta" can suck my ass.

>1mil
10m

>Create hero shooter
>Different heroes have different skills, and naturally different difficulties to play as
>Instead of balancing for risk/reward, balance it for every character must have equal outcome
>This then creates as a retarded endgame where it's just the easiest, hardest to kill character is the best, in this case it's tanks vs tanks vs tanks vs healer
>Wonder why the game is completely and entirely solved meta wise
>Continue to address symptoms, not causes of shitty gameplay
>Symptoms attacked, gameplay gets even worse, repeat ad infinitum

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it was never even that good lolbabs are just hysterical children, even at the top level

Man that's pathetic.

I miss M5 so fucking much. Why can't Riot let us have fun anymore?

>tfw you are a dotard and never fell for the OW meme

It wasn't always like that, it really only happened after they nerfed anti-tank comps like double reaper.

>enforcing 2-2-2 in quick play too
Fug, pretty much every game I play is a wild 5 dps comp and it's way more fun. Now everything is going to be GOATs-lite, forcing 60%+ support/tank shit.

>reducing ult gains significantly
Now the game is even slower, damn it.

>esports
Imagine if in football you always had to have a quarterback, halfback, and fullback in play with 2 receivers out wide. Imagine if in hockey you were forced to have a goaltender at all times. Why is Blizzard so retarded?

No game has perfect balance but Blizzard doesn't understand balancing games. Starcraft was a complete fluke.

Name 1! balanced hero shooter or even MOBA...

>Imagine if in football you always had to have a quarterback, halfback, and fullback in play
Please do this unironically. Fuck air raid.

Is there any reason to play DPS at this point?

What is this archaic bullshit? No wonder OW is a dedgame

og gookclick had awful balance
it was only brood war where it reached the heights of "okay"

I think DOTA is in a really good place balance wise right now.

Great change.

I might actually return to Overwatch after not playing it for over a year. I can actually play the heroes I want to over been forced to play a hero because of team comp.

AP Trynd was legit bonkers though, early game was your only chance of shutting it down but it had impressive regen with triple beads start and the innate crit. After two items, he'd do magic damage on autoattack hit and physical on spin with max cooldown, you had no way to itemize vs it and he'd still crit you while spinning away and being immortal plus bullshit heals.

the barriers are like the one of the only good concepts the game actually had
the problem is always balance and their inability to design

look at rein, a character crafted by a full team prior to release vs orisa, a character crafted by a skeleton crew in charge of "maintenance" after release
one has barrier as a limited resource that needs to be managed and is redundant with all other actions the character can take, his gameplay is a constant pivot between defense and offense and requires you to have an innate knowledge of what you can get away with without people dying
one has an infinitely dispensable number of barriers on a cooldown too short for them to ever be depleted, and can freely shoot, move, etc regardless of whether or not the barrier is active, and her gameplay consists of nothing but "press e, hold m1, repeat"

the state of the games balance post release and the terrible, recycled, redundant and braindead kits of the characters released in that timeframe is not a coincidence, its the same people managing both things into the fucking ground

Broodwar was completely unbalanced. It was the community made maps that balanced it. There's a reason none of the korean tournaments used official Blizzard maps and used their own.

Tanks being OP was a problem the team should've solved when everybody still played the game. If only there was some sort of off-live server that the developers could test shit out on. Some sort of... Public Test Realm where they could put changes in and see how the playerbase reacts?

>forced Comps
And people wonder why this will never be taken seriously

Zerg still got the short end of the stick

Remember that time some guy went oldgot mid? That was interesting to see as an Urgot main.

This game had so much potential
Nice to see Blizzard continuing to make more and more horrible decisions

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The likely reason is that teams with shit players were flipping out because they had no idea how to improve their roster without completely buying out an already successful roster. All of the best rosters had multiple flex roles, and only very few slots such as main tank and main dps/widow were dedicated to a single role, so that the team had the reliability to change into any comp on the fly. With the new changes it will be really easy for worse teams to improve by simply replacing players who underperform in their role with players who have better metrics.

>forcing a team comp
Who the fuck designed this piece of shit game?

Why do that when you can just impose a bandaid ruleset and call it a day? Hell people will even praise you for it

yeah but 95% of his damage was still physical.
honestly the difference between AP and AD trynd even before the nerfs was never that great, it's just that tryndamere was never played and no one knew how to deal with splitpushing trynd.
the "strength" of AP trynd was because you were getting max cooldown on his spin so it was a pain in the ass to catch him

>Can't balance the game for shit
>Have to force players to follow a team comp instead

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All you had to do was not be a squishy damage shitter and you ignore his ""massive"" 1.5k mixed damage per 5 seconds. Even shit bruisers like amumu could outdps him. Alternately get a Bveil and invalidate his burst.

>Remove/nerf all hero aspects that punish bad players, cause shitters cried on forums that they were getting destroyed
>Buff health walling/regen
It's almost as if McCree/Widow aiming, and Roadhog hooks had a purpose in the game? wtffff\??????

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>instead of reworking brig or nerfing barriers they instead decide to fuck over the entire game even more
Who the fuck watches this shit seriously? lol

And then you realize the retarded shit, like mei takes a tank slot

TF2 WINS AGAIN BABYYYYYY

>overwatch
>aim
You can run an aimbot mccree with 100% accuracy in high SR comps and still lose because of all the barriers, pulls, and hooks.
aim literally does not matter in this fucking game

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TF2fags STILL seething to this day decades later. Holy fuck, get over it already.

Instead of fix the elevator, lets just put a *Out of Service* sign permanently

if overwatch 2 is real and it turns outto be only pve, im going to laugh a fucking lot at basedzzard for being such money shills

That's what he's saying. McRee was nerfed severely until his DPS no longer matters.

People who're sick of seeing GOAT comp every single game.

>balance is so bad you have to force sub-optimal team compositions
I went back to tf2 after season 3, this game is a mess

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>if player changes roles between maps, they'll change seats

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Are hosts that retarded or is the game designed so poorly it does not really work the other way.

>when you are so terrible at balancing the game that you just give up on it and enforce the way you want people play
This company can't go under quick enough.

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Get ready for Orisa/Hog to dominate every fucking game

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Starcraft BW is amazingly balanced

>unironically giving a shit about esports
how much more of a faggot could you be

there are way too many variables for if there were no restricted roles
the explanation jeff gave in the dev update video makes sense to me, where he brought up that restrictions foster the most creativity and that shakespeare wrote sonnets which he says are one of the most restrictive forms of poetry to write for

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>goat for 2 seasons straight
>do nothing
>season 3 people start picking up sombra more and various characters get into comps
>implement this
Fucking lmao. The only reason I know what is happening with this shit game is because my job interferes with it, but holy fuck I want it dead so hard.

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no he wasnt
hes gotten nothing but buffs since they nerfed fth
and it doesnt fucking matter because he has 200 hp and no escape ability

he got extremely powercrept by the healer buffs preventing his burst from mattering because he cant oneshot, and he himself is more brittle than glass because blizzard doesnt know how to balance their offensive and defensive baselines to each other and try to mettle the difference with RETARDED amounts of healing

I wouldn't even be surprised if that is enforced because some autistic tranny with OCD at blizzard just wants the role icons to go in specific order on the owl screen or something like that.

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the fact that i use to watch this shit

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>Got banned of OW because people in fucking plat rank call you "toxic" if you tell them to play better
>Now this

Lmao, I missed nothing

It's funny because this basically happened in WoW too. How can they make the same mistake for over a decade and still not learn from it?

less of a faggot than
>unironically giving a shit about Overwatch

>played OW for a month
>entire time had the urge to play tf2
>stop and go play tf2 for a few hundred more hours after a long break
>mfw

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It is absolutely staged from the bottom to the top.

Their shitty crowd makes more noise than full fucking stadiums at sports events. They are obviously paid or just blizzard employees doing that for food stamps.
Same fans wearing different team shirts in the front crowd during the season were spotted.
Special employees were spotted in the arena drawing and making pre-game boards with messages for "fans".
This "20 mil entry fee" is obvious bullshit.
Even team logos and designs are so similar that is is obvious blizzard designed it all and didn't even put much effort into it.

Hope they will discard this garbage after this season, HotS is feeling lonely down there.

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It's because Tigole is the lead designer on Overwatch

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The players that have been waiting years for this will be the first one to bitch about the change.

lol this game's perpetually unbalanced

if they change roles they have to change seats
what the fuck is this, i thought they actually programmed it so you can't change roles. fuck blizzard.

I had so much hope for OW.

ow 2 will fix it :^)

This is no longer an Overwatch thread; it is a Paladins feat. Engineer from the hit game TF2 thread. Post your best Pepper pics to dab on Blizzard and their discord trannies.

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The idea, I think, is simply for spectators to easily recognize which player is playing which role, and perhaps so the cameraman can more easily do his job . I don't watch esport, but if you're filming people playing an OW game it seems relevant to zoom in on the guy who just made a team-wiping ult for the extra bit of spectacle.

>NOOOOO PLAY THE GAME THE WAY WE WANT

Please don't compare HotS to this shitshow. At least it had the decency to remain a mediocre niche game with a fun community.

So what sort of broken composition could be made out of this 222 shit? Can't imagine it would take long for everyone to quickly jump on one specific ideal team, just like every fucking time.

They refuse to admit that the "trinity" has always been a cancer to video games as a whole. Get rid of this idiotic set of niche roles that only exist and only "work" (doesn't) because of one another. They're bad enough in RPGs and the like, but they have absolutely NO place in a shooter.

All of the heroes should have the capacity for self-sufficient combat.
The Support role should be a bunch of combat medics who can kick ass just as well as they can mend asses, not helpless "white mages" who sit in the back and keep healthbars up.
The Tank role should be slightly beefier fighters with more unique utility to handle crowd control, not walking lifebars that distract people and do shit damage. There's none of that "aggro" shit here.

Tigole need to jump off a cliff and take the trinity with him.

Stay mad blizzcuck why don't you buy more loot boxes and eat some more lucio ohs maybe that will make you feel better

>So what sort of broken composition could be made out of this 222 shit?
It depends on which champs they allow in each set of 2 and how capable you are of convincing blizzard that zarya and brigette are your main dps

My god the restriction on playstyle is atrocious. I don't even understand how they can find restricting playstyle to be a positive thing.

its just gonna be bunker or double sniper every game

the real issue now becomes blizzard being incapable of classifying their characters correctly and muddy flex roles becoming functionally unplayable because they cant fit on their team since you would normally have to swap between roles midmatch with characters like mei, sym, etc

good thing im a junk main

Now that DPS are forced to be there, they can go absolutely nuts on buffing tanks & supports even further to make it even more casual

so basically any hero that is most useful when swapped in/out mid match is just fucked right?

>This online-only treadmill for microtransactions is better than that online-only treadmill for microtransactions!

This is all Blizzard makes now, its all cancer, stop playing all of it you fucking muppet. you'd be saying the opposite if OW were niche and HotS were popular because nothing would change, its all just a literal vehicle for microtransactions.

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You can swap from say, junkrat on first point where he is good to a more traditional dps for later points, but you can't swap from junkrat to a tank.

>gee people are really getting sick of the limited amount of comps in pro games
>how about we introduce more limitations which will reduce the amount of comps even more once people figure out the most optimised one again

Because the game is so horribly balanced there's exactly one definitive team setup and deviation from it means you probably lose

>force sub-optimal team compositions
Wait that is what this is? I just thought they were forcing the standard meta

>Even team logos and designs are so similar that is is obvious blizzard designed it all and didn't even put much effort into it.
How they handled teams always felt so lame. Like no one ever seriously took them as a team from an area, you can't force that shit. Blizzard are just so scared of anything building up naturally and I don't really get why.

>All I do these days is collect the figmas
>Constant decay of the game makes me feel bad for it

No, they have to played by someone who was already playing ther hero's role.

It's needlessly complicated. But Blizzard treats OW players at literal kindergarteners with little good boy/girl points if you're nice to your teammate, so I'm not surprised the next step was babysitting the players in what hero to pick. I'm surprised they didn't do that in the actual game too.

OW is not fun and the community is living cancer. HotS is not fun but the community was solid. If I'm going to sit in a skinners box and never press the "pay money" button I'd rather be in good company.

Jesus fucking christ what a joke

explain to non faggots what the GOAT comp is

Those esports organizations that bought in at $20 million each aren't going to see even a cent back.

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>there are way too many variables for if there were no restricted roles
Like their greatly designed maps of the fine tuning in shields and healing?

3 supports and 3 tanks.

google.com/search?q=goat comp

I missed the days when a team would just meme out with everyone on the team changing into the same hero.

us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/overwatch-ptr-patch-notes-july-18-2019/370156

>meme ball buffed
Thank you jesus

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>people actually play this.
>People actually watch this.

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Zarya Rein Dva Zenyatta Brigette and Lucio ball of death that is unkillable and can trample any other comp unless the other team is running GOATs as well.

Imagine being so fuckig bad at balancing the game that you literally force players to not play the objectively most powerful team comp because you can't figure out how to nerf it

Holy fuck this is so pathetic

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>If I'm going to sit in a skinners box and never press the "pay money" button I'd rather be in good company.
Don't, you're part of the problem either way. If the games weren't populated, the whales wouldn't be as motivated to spend absurd amounts of money to show off their cosmetics. By simply playing the game you're still part of the ecosystem, you're part of the product and experience they're selling to whales.

Stop playing these fucking skinnerboxes, it doesn't matter if you spend money or not. You're not the target in the first place, they don't expect you to spend money, they're after the whales and you're helping to create and maintain an environment in which those whales will want to spend money.

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You pick three support characters and three tanks, which essentially makes your team unkillable. You can outheal any DPS character in the game and the only counter for it is to run GOATS yourself. This has been the meta for OWL for months and nothing Blizzard does changes it.

Blizzard and esports are like oil and water. It literally never works out

>kill someone in overwatch
>banned for playing the same character too much, and creating a toxic environment by killing them and making them feel harrassed
>kill someone repeatedly in tf2
>call them a bigger in chat, your ingame character automatically calls them a retard, get a loud fanfare whenever you keep killing them, get an achievement if they rage quit
Wtf overbros... you told me we killed TF2... why won't they stop winning.....

On the contrary, I think oil and water has worked out very well for us as a civilization.

>and nothing Blizzard does changes it
because they dont want to change it (for the casual masses at least)
it can be fixed by just reducing numbers: reduce healing, reduce tank health, reduce tank damage, etc
but lowering numbers would make the 12 year olds that still play this game mad because they can't play an overpowered champ with a million health and damage so they wont do it

>"Competitive" Overwatch

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>if players change roles between maps they will change seats
ableism

Why do you care about whales? They're just going to be retarded somewhere else instead.

tf2 has had hard limits since the beginning though

>only 1 demo allowed

It's less about the tanks and more about the supports

OW actually lost a shit ton of players, mass screaming on twitter, even kotaku articles, ALL from the mercy rework.

They dont want to go through that again

it's three tanks and three healers, sometimes a mei instead of one of the healers, because she's the most broken dps by far and shits on anyone else in a 1v1

because of blizzards design of the game, people quickly figured out that dps are fundamentally shit because they die too fast and even with quake pro level accuracy(which you never see anyway, because the average overwatch "pro" is a csgo/tf2 reject or a retarded gook that should be playing starcraft or LoL), no dps in the game will do more damage than a healer can heal, combine that with the fact that shields are ridiculously strong and don't really have a proper counter besides mei or sombra(which gimp you because they're not a tank or a healer, mei is an exception on some maps because she absolutely shits on everyone else 1v1), and the end result is that it's better and more consistent to have three tanks and three dps and turtle and play passively and just wait for the other team to make a mistake
the result of this is that Overwatch pro matches are insanely boring to watch, and the entire point of them forcing OW to be an esport was for that ad revenue, if no one is watching, they're not making money, so this forced meta is them trying to make the game not a boring stale dumpster fire

in any other game, this would be a complete joke, but the OWL meta is such a joke right now that this is unironically an improvement

because they are overpowered. overwatch does the opposite and makes everyone underpowered.

The difference is that the people balancing tf2 competitive meta were not the actual devteam

>Show up at a tournament in a wheelchair
>Change role every match and loudly screams in pain every time
>If the staff gives up and say you can stay in your current position start crying and tell them I AM A REAL PERSON I CAN DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO I'LL SHOW YOU I'LL SHOW EVERYONE
>Other team will probably let you win too

Except Shanghai just beat arguably the best GOATS team in stage 3, along with the other two top GOATS teams. And they did it by running a 3-2-1 dps comp, a comp that this role lock is going to remove. 2-2-2 lock is fucking stupid and anyone cheering for this is retarded.

>Medic limited to one since forever because the possibility of an ubersaw chain exists.

yeah you're right, I completely forgot about le quirky gamer grills with 99% playtime on healers who screech and shit their diapers if their precious "press some buttons when you feel like it to contribute" hero gets nerfed

What the fuck? What happened to the freedom of choice? This looks so fucking stupid.

people just didn't understand how to use zerg's spellcaster units like the defiler, obviously that meant you'd need the micro to do that shit effectively. Zerg had a higher skill ceiling in that game compared to the other 2 races

comp tf2 originally had no limits, and players figured out almost immediately that you won by running 3 demos and 3 medics
the limits nowadays for 6s is 2 of each class, with the exception of medic and demo for obvious reasons being limited to 1 each, in ESEA they also limit heavy and engie to one because they stall the game out and make it boring to play and watch, also there are some 6s maps where pushing last is literally impossible if the other team is allowed to have 2 heavies and 2 engies

Apples to oranges. You can still pick whatever you want around the hard limits of one or two of a certain class in sixes. It would only be comparable to the travesty of blizzard's decision if you were forced to play two of each class (two offense, two defense, two support), which, incidentally, is basically highlander and surprise surprise, fucking nobody likes highlander and everyone plays sixes.

Company is fucking dead
OWL is Activision's last attempt to squeeze any money from a dying franchise.
Admit it, it's Activision's telltale MO.
Once, OWL is officially dead, Blizzard is officially strung up.
>WoW is dead
>All their spin-off games like Hearthstone and HOTS are dead
>Starcraft is dead
>Unless they can re-work DIablo from the ground up, that's dead
>Nearly nothing new, nothing much to do but suck Blizzard dry for all it's worth before moving on
>Implying Activision isn't doing this already

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TF2 was never meant to be e-sports and never tried to be. Don't blame the sins of faggots on the game. The game is the victim, not the perpetrator.
Two very distinct and fundamentally different scenarios.

maybe ill be tracer

They are too shit at balancing to not have the restrictions

>if enemy team starts beating them, crowd boos winning team
>won't get disqualified
>but the crowd and all spectators hate winning team for being pieces of shit
>public outcry to ban team from tournaments
I can see it.

shit like this makes me glad that tf2's competitive has always been relegated to an extremely niche game mode that the devs ignore and few others care about so normal people can actually have fun and fuck around playing the regular mode

go ahead, she's complete garbage in anything above 4k sr where people have at least learned to aim, she dies just from being sneezed on, it doesn't help that overwatch moves at a snails pace compared to something like tf2

Just revert reaper and allow 2reap again, the tank problem will fix itself

The only people angry at this don't even care/play/follow the game. Fuck off with your retarded ignorant blunder posting

Well that's not saying much since the devs ignore the rest of the game too.

Not him, but whales drive the direction of these games which is why they're adopting more and more skinnerbox bullshit.
Instead of the game catering to the regular playerbase, it's catered to the top 1% of people spending money on microtransactions. Everyone else playing is just part of the product.

Ideally the whales would be contained to mobile games, instead of faggot enablers allowing their retardation to spread to real games.

Because fuck you I care about video games. I don't want service models and subscriptions that replace ownership, I don't want microtransactons, I don't want anything and everything to be monetized. And by populating and playing these literal skinnerboxes, by your own words, you're just helping to make all of the above a reality.

Stop buying and playing literal skinnerboxes, you goddamned muppet.

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unironically pre MYM Comp and Casual were perfect, they never blended together and kept to themselves
the whole blame fell on Valve for their incompetence, Comp players were pissed that the update was shipped so broken and in such a poor state they just went back to their lobbies but Casual players were forced to just put up with it

TF2 pioneered bullshit microtransactions in mainstream games, it can fuck itself too.

Why is Overwatch so fucking hard to balance for Blizz?

What inherent designs of the game fuck everything up so much?
The ultimates?
The skills?
Infinite ammo?

how did this win best e-sports game?

the problem isn't the tanks, it's how powerful shields are and how fast healers heal, they should cut all shield health in half across the board, reduce all pure healer healing(moira and mercy) by at least half

I don't want to bring it up because the game is jank incarnate, but Paladins doesn't have either of those issues and it's 10 times more fun to play, there are no pure healers and the shields are all weak and temporary except for one character, and he's garbage at high level

honestly they could fix everything by just having bans, even if it's just one or two per team

They never realized what they stumbled upon until it was too late

Cry more blizzdrone

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TF2 competitive scene have been the laughingstock of FPS players since the beginning.

EA pioneered bullshit microtransactions in mainstream games before Valve.

Popularity and/or bribery

>epic harkor gamers are all OLD GOOD NEW BAD faggots
No way

i'd say a lot of it is rooted in their insistence on the DPS-Healer-Tank trinity

You gotta first do a fun game, then becomes a sport, not the other way around

Thats the point i quit too, but it was a chain of events. The change to Mercy was the last straw after i saw just how much damage and heal her new ult put out. The character didnt play the same anymore, and after the roadhog evisceration i was just tired

That's literally not how meta's are supposed to work.

Starcraft and DOTA taught Blizzard they don't have to do the first part.

Heres your new hero bro

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The devs are the ones who decide how the meta is supposed to work, not the peons aka players, don't like it don't play it.

>they also limit heavy and engie to one because they stall the game out and make it boring to play and watch
Well if they wanted to make the the games fun to play and watch they shouldn't have picked the most boring gamemode.

shields are too strong mainly because they have no real counters that don't gimp your team by running, pure healers are always cancerous in ANY pvp focused multiplayer, the reason medic isn't bad in tf2 is because it's limited to one and he has relatively low hp and can only heal one person at a time, he also has very low damage output and can't heal and damage at the same time
overwatch has characters like moira and lucio that can quickly heal the entire team at once, mercy can fucking resurrect, zen heals, debuffs enemies so they die almost instantly, and has insane damage output, and because of his mechanics he can do all of this at once

They're both cancer

Fuck microtransactions

Daily reminder every single time overwatch faggots want to play their game they are given a random game mode and map. They can't choose what fucking map they want to play in, even outside competitive play

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>online FPS game
>has shields
>has insane heals
>has stuns
Was fucked from the start. Only reason it was fun in the first month was because a lot of the characters were overpowered to hell. Examples, Mccrees 450 damage fan the hammer, Genjis 268 damage combo and 8 second dragon blade, bastion being able to melt you even faster with headshots, roadhog hook, and more.

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that's how they work when you use money to create a fake esport out of nothing overnight, and spend billions to force it into existence

there's a very clear trend when you look at which esports are actually popular and last and which ones blow up and fizzle out over the course of a year or two

ASSFAGGOTS design tacked on an FPS was always a mistake.

>still no match history

All game types feel the same in ow anyways

I still remember when they wanted to stick tooth and nail to duplicate heroes.

it's mostly because all their map designs are trash. Payload and koth are the fucking worst

It was never intended to be anything but a vehicle for loot crates and ad revenue.

They made a visually-appealing game, easily-accessible game and added the actual "game" part later, as an afterthought.

I don't like OW but that's just not true, there's a custom games browser.

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imo unironically the most optimal team in an FPS should be all DPS, as in if every player was a perfect robot that makes zero mistakes they should pick DPS

healers and tanks should exist for players and teams that need them to be viable, i.e. "we need a healer because we keep getting shot like dumbasses" or "we need a tank to draw fire and protect us" but by no means should these roles ever be a strict requirement

Why is infinite ammo bad? Ammo is an outdated mechanic.

dear god

yeah, but it's all lucio surfing, hammond billiards, and some mass of the same female characters for people to rp and shit

What happened to "git gud"?

>not even mentioning the terminal cancer that is 2CP

Why is automatic aim bad? Aiming is an outdated mechanic.

>Ammo is an outdated mechanic.
Not sure if bait or you're just retarded

anywhere else this kind of incompetency(the inability to balance your game) would result in firing of the entire team

why is this acceptable in game development?

more like hero combinations, there's too many variations if there were no restrictions to properly balance because there's some BROKEN combinations that can't be done in 2/2/2, we just haven't discovered it yet or realized it if we haven't already, it's much easier to account for balance when you decrease the amount of possible combinations in any given match

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you're right, except in overwatch the healers heal way faster than the dps do damage, even with perfect accuracy, the only exception is a mcree or widow with 90% accuracy, but even then there's shields

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Because people defend and enable it.

I live 5 minutes from the Blizzard Arena and see people lining up whenever there's a game night. They're not devs or shills, they're just obsessed drones.

Is their investment into ow what killed blizzard? Their esports scene is such a sham

There is no skill involved in paying attention to some arbitrary number that goes up and down.

>guy is trolling in comp
>team ignores it him and plays on it's on
>wins the match

and now...

>guy is trolling as mercy in comp
>can't pick healer yourself because it's locked
>lose match

thanks a lot jeff

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there's nothing wrong with infinite ammo, but having limited ammo can serve as an additional risk/reward element to FPS gameplay, i.e. should i use a weapon that does ballers damage but risk running out of ammo, or play it safe with one that does less damage but has a huge clip, etc

You can't tell an organization that pays you millions of dollars to "git gud". I'm saying that they're doing this to appease the organizations, stuck with shit teams and no idea how to improve.

because me

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It always felt like OW was designed to cater to people who need constant validation and emotional support. When I see people play the game it's like they exist in their own little world and they just constantly run around spitting epic one liners and being given overpowered special abilities just for existing, and at the end one lucky person gets an automatically generated montage of some mundane shit like getting 2-3 kills in a row with super duper cinematic heroic music playing in the background. As opposed to other games that at best you get ignored if you play like a retard and at worst get singled out like the chump you are. OW has always just seemed like a pathetic game and it made sense mentally ill dilators and women would be all over it so they could feel like badasses in their own little safe space where the real world gets banned for toxicity

Pretty much this, Blizzard doesn't understand that it's not an MMO.

I mean it literally started as an MMO/WoW sequel before that was scrapped and they just reused the assets for a shooter, makes sense.

hence why overwatch is a broken piece of shit game

they dont understand how to make a shooter and keep trying to force it to work like wow arena
the game lacks inherent, built-in systems to allow the game to play properly like movement momentum or universal healing counterplay, and they are not aware of this because they are not capable of identifying what are causing the issues theyre having
theyre also extremely opposed to ever admitting wrongdoing which means every mistake they make is either permanent or at the very least long-lived, and the incompetence/ignorance compounds with this to basically just make every patch the game has suffering for the playerbase

There is no skill involved in paying attention to some arbitrary reticule that moves around the screen.

Healing really isn't the problem, it's the abundance of healing that's the issue, and there's a perfectly viable way to make it so that healing isn't broken as fuck, just reduce everyone's heal amount and then make healing have a reduced effect against someone already being healed. Blizzard won't ever do this though because it would make the retards who play the braindead design-wise full supports in this game throw a piss fit.

>Infinite ammo
partially
>The ultimates
Yes. Ultimates have way too much impact on the game. Traditionally, DPS/tank ults would cause a team to lose a fight unless you had a shield, a support ult, or could kill the ulting hero in some cases.
Now you have "ult economy" which literally means whichever team has more ultimates entering a teamfight (and EVERY engagement is practically a teamfight) wins the fight, and the objective.

But the biggest thing that fucks over the game is how Blizzard wants to balance OW for casual AND competitive players. Dota 2 doesn't do this - Valve balances around the top 1% of players. Rainbow 6 Siege has also started to (slowly) focus more on balancing around professional play (and Platinum+, which is like top 4% of the ladder).
Meanwhile, Jeff and friends tried to have their cake and eat it too. The whole issue of balancing Mercy a few years back is clear evidence. She was shit, then laughable broken, then shit, and now just passable because there are better support heroes to play.

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Well I will agree some games could benefit from infinite ammo. But saying that no games should have it is just wrong. It's not just a limit, it's a resource to manage.

>six pipes and 30 as reserve ammo
>40 stickies as reserve ammo
rough fucking times, i'll tell you what

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When the game launched they originally didn't want to have an FoV sliders because they didn't think majority of their target audience would know what it is or even where the options menu was so it would be an unfair advantage.

Their target audience is literal retards

Situational awareness and proper planning. You'd be surprised how many people don't top off regularly, reload at stupid times, and don't use their secondary weapon when caught with their pants down. It's something you learn very quickly or get stomped on but it's still a thing. Just because you learn proper movement real quickly doesn't mean everything should be a rail shooter because only unepic casual nubs have trouble moving

I never even understood OW as an e-sport and it's always felt unbelievably forced.

>remember I got overwatch so I can technically play it whenever I want
>log on
>FoV makes me feel like I have horse blinders on
I haven't installed it since
How the FUCK is the guy in charge of the game supposedly someone with two art degrees. The art direction is beyond trash

Do ps3 servers still work? They actually never patched out 6pipe.

What is wrong with the Smash ruleset? Melee needs a few changes, like banning planking and wobbling, but otherwise it's solid af and the same goes for Ultimate.

>theyre also extremely opposed to ever admitting wrongdoing which means every mistake they make is either permanent or at the very least long-lived, and the incompetence/ignorance compounds with this to basically just make every patch the game has suffering for the playerbase
wow's had this problem for fucking years (notice how they still won't admit azerite was an awful awful system despite it getting booed at blizzcon) so it's not surprising ow has it too

i think so

>A game that started off as a casual fun TF2 clone is now a forced meta role lock esports fuckfest
Esports were a mistake

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There's more

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No knocking medics into walls and ceilings is easy for any competent team, tho it would be obnoxious and a decent viable strat
its just 2 healers in any game is retarded since it means you can heal the other one that deserved to die taking away the fun and excitement of going in deep for the healer pick

Because it is. Blizzard has been dumping millions into the esports scene to try and force it's popularity in the vain hope they strike it rich. It's fucking terrible as an esport

I just want Perfect Dark with online play on PC

>overbotch in 2019
OOOOOH NONONONO!

see
This wasn't a problem at the beginning of the game because the only real shield was Reinhardt and they actually had tank busters in the game. They nerfed all the tank busters into the ground and added way to many shield to the game.
I'm sitting here waiting to see if 2 DPS, 2 Tank, 2 Heal doesn't actual solve the problem at all and instead DPS will slot will be used for support or crowd control type characters.

>search farm
>get farming lobbies
wow crazy how that works

How does that hyperautist Icefrog get away with it lads?

It's born out of arrogance from their success. WoW was an untouchable money making machine for years. It's surprisingly unknown that most of the money wow made was dumped into all their other stupid side projects. Overwatch itself is the failed Titan project which took countless millions and hundreds of employees before it was even turned into Overwatch.

They pretty much think they are god's gift to gaming and MMOs hence why they don't give a shit about anything

>we can never go back to vidya just being a silly toy for losers
>we just HAD to make it serious business and appeal to normies
This is the fate we brought upon ourselves

the UI alone makes me want to die

It's not my image, I just picked the first one on Google that wasn't ant-sized.

That's actually neat tho. OW may not have a proper map editor but the scripting is actually pretty good

Esports was a mistake

yeah well now wow is getting its lunch eaten by ffxiv. they're going to firebomb classic with this layering shit and i literally can't tell you if it's the sheer arrogance of wanting to prove You Think You Want It, But You Don't right or they're so stupid that they don't get why it's a bad idea

>It's born out of arrogance from their success. WoW was an untouchable money making machine for years.

I hope this happens to Valve soon with Steam.

The character design is passable, but watching a game is abhorrent. Every fucking effect wants to be the most important thing on the screen, and it gets messy when multiple ultimates are thrown out. That's why Blizzard has rolled-out team colors for heroes/effects for OWL, but still miss so much of the big picture when a teamfight goes down compared to a Dota 2 match.

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>Overwatch makes the right decision for the health of the game
>Gets shit on by angsty Yea Forums users
Yikes!

>Make a game based entirely around different heroes countering each other and have the core game be switching heroes to counter enemy picks
>Remove the CORE BALANCING FEATURE

I knew Blizzard was retarded but this is a whole other level of fucking retard

Competitive Overwatch was a mistake

I still play that build. Not broken tier, but im only gold I so it stomps my elo

the only fun esports was dota, all others are cancer
youtu.be/HaRd-fIfs64?t=52

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TI8 was great, the Chinese fans were total cunts all week so everyone was celebrating hard as they were filing out of the arena

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>Angsty Yea Forums user replies to an objectively true post with an anime reaction image
Yikes!

NuBlizzard has absolutely no idea what to do anymore. It's all useless lateral moves. WoW destroyed them.

>2 damage, 2 tanks, 2 supports
Uhhh, wasn't there a 4th catagory?
RiP in peace widowfags I guess?

Seriously though, did they just make like 6 heroes illegal?

why is this done for the esports scene, aren't those supposed to be coherent teams of familiar people with predetermined strategies selected for coherency? why would this not be a system imposed over pub games?

>objectively true post
That's a funny way of spelling 'braindead shit post'.

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>omg why does fifa make it so you can only have one goalkeeper they should balance the game instead!
Y'all right now.

Defense was rolled together with the supports last year, I think.

defense and offense got merged into damage around a year ago

They changed the way Heroes are classified a while back, Widow is a Damage hero now.

>Infinite ammo
how would the game benefit from having ammo
that probably wouldn't work on a team of 6

Oh
Thats dumb

you can take the goalier out of the goal and make him shoot penalties, you can put any of your players in the goal, and everyone not in the goal can do any of the other football positions. imagine if only you forwards can shoot at the goal. imagine being this retarded

>Y'all

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it slows down spam so you can push though the tiny chokes easier

Football existed way before Overwatch you absolute retard.

because they can't balance around people doing "off meta" comps and therefore are forcing it so they don't have to. it is because they are lazy and stupid.

>forces
>FORCE
>a meta
dead game

>blizzdrone who's mouth is surgically attached to the cock of his masters doesn't understand how sports work

Like pottery.

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well, for starters you won't be welcomed by a fucking barrage of projectiles before entering a choke point

Not really. The roles were pointless. Widow and Hanzo were generally more effective on offense, Sombra was generally more effective on defense (at the time), and the two groups were generally completely arbitrary.

>that probably wouldn't work on a team of 6
TF2
Siege
Halo
Cod
Battlefield
Basically every other shooter that isn't OW

Why the fuck couldn't they just have a ban phase like MOBA's?

In a team game with multiple choosable heroes there is always ALWAYS going to be a dominant meta team composition no matter how much you balance. A ban phase fixes that

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support has special seats

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OWs defense/offense split mattered about as much as TF2s

>yfw never ever played ow

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Attack and Defense were rolled together, I think, not Defense and Support.

That means that now you have half the roster on the same list, making it incredibly pointless. They should make an effort and at least put categories like "sniper", "close-range", that kinda thing.

>omg Y'all just angsty Yikes!

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Problem with game that's designed for "everyone" it's going to alienate playerbase if they're not able to access certain heroes they'll likely play.

There isn't enough hero overlap. When GOATs was at its peak hero bans got floated around a lot by the pro community. Some OWL coaches took that idea and did experimental scrims with agreed upon hero bans. It didn't really go well and pretty much everyone agreed that 2/2/2 would be better to try first.

Ban phase happens before the tournament when redditors and esports crybabies nerf everything that could possibly disrupt their meta into the ground. The community mentality with OW isn't to nerf what's too good, its to nerf what can compete with it.

source: used to main pudge rip-off/dps before they got nerfed to the ground by salty mercy mains

It's the same shit with these forced E-sports games.
Nothing interesting can come from them, because they have to be 'balanced' so they are developed to be as stale and boring as possible.

Think League, it's also the same meta it's been for 8 years and any change is immediately squashed. Dota on the other hand, is now far more popular than League but it's not developed with E-sports entirely in mind, so a bunch of crazy shit can happen in any game of Dota.

Stop supporting shit gook devs and support Valve

but it doesn't.

Reminder they removed the ONLY hard to perform and rewarding tech from the game: genji ledge boosting.

>the same fucking characters are picked most of the time
how do you people watch this shit? lmao

Limiting classes =/= hard set amounts of certain roles.
This is like if TF2 said that you had to have 2 soldier/demo, 2 heavy and 2 medic/engineer. It'd be fucking retarded.

>Ammo is an outdated mechanic.
This board never fails to impress

is fucking stupid, but it was a long way coming.
the fucking meta was cancer, this will spice things up

>Moira can use fade while stunned now

Why? She's already annoying enough to lock down.

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Honestly there's not much to do once Terran got their flying memeball going

TF2 has 9 classes. Overwatch has like 30 heroes who have vastly different jobs. A better comparison would be classifying different item loadouts and then placing limits on how many of those loadouts you can have per team.

That's the final conclusion if a team finds a degenerate 2-2-2 comp that shits on everything else like GOATS is doing now, and given how shitty the balance is in Overwatch it WILL happen.

Why did Blizzard choose to absolutely destroy Sym's teleporter in the PTR balance update?

Do you know where I can sell my Bnet account at a reasonable win ratio? I've got OW with a lot of skins.

I have never felt such strong buyer's remorse in anything but this game at launch.

>create an unbalanced mess of a game
>instead of balancing the game, lets just make it you have to play 2/2/2
Blizzard with those high IQ plays it seems.

I'd make a joke or something but honestly I don't even know why they did that. The teleporter never even needed an infinite duration anyway, it was fine how it is. Nobody picked her because she's just a niche hero, she doesn't delete people across the map like the snipers do and now with role queue there's even less of a reason to pick her since you only have 2 DPS spots.

Welcome to literally every single competitive game.
MOBAs see the same few characters either banned or picked in every game, while games like CS:GO have the same 5-6 weapons used by everyone.

>Overwatch has like 30 heroes who have vastly different jobs
Of which ends up fitting into one of four roles. TF2 has more loadouts than Overwatch has heroes.

CS:GO isn't a hero/class based game.
In MOBAs characters rotate based on the meta.

JUST LEARN FROM DOTA YOU FUCKING DUMB CUNTS

ADD A PROPER BAN SYSTEM

It's called a "meta" user

That takes precious development resources and time to implement, easier to just use a bandaid ruleset and spend those resources on more lootbox cosmetics

I literally said meta.

All I wanted was a Mercy gf but the fanbase wants to take her away from me and give her to Pharah or worse one of the blacks. They deserve this terrible game.

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>Welcome to literally every single competitive game
nice generalization, faggot

Want to know how I know you never played brood war?

>Angsty Yea Forums user makes an objectively racist sexist post with an anime reaction image
Yikes!

I genuinely don't understand why none of these companies want to learn from the successes and failures of the frostytoad.

They had a literal decade's worth of balancing decisions all neatly documented with each patch.
It's a fucking treasure trove and I am baffled that even game analysts/writers/critiques don't pay attention to complete clusterfuck of balance that is Dota Allstars - Dota 2.

I'm talking about the pro meta, now how amateurs playing the game

I dunno about League but in Dota picks and bans are usually pretty varied and even some of the least popular heroes will be picked a few times per tournament.

Okay, guess the heroes for this meta
>Mercy and Lucio
>two shieldfags
>Genji and Widow

K
Flash made 4 science vessels and like two wraiths against effort in asl6, what flying memeball are you talking about

I do wonder how other competitive game devs look at icefrog.

League is the SAME top 14 or less champs.

Dota is fucking wild in the competitive scene and it's really fun to watch because of all the crazy dumbshit that's allowed.

My guess is gonna be
>Lucio / Zen
>Orissa / Roadhog
>Tracer / Either Hanzo or Widow

Balancing games is not how you make money.
Making an accessible (read: dumbed down shit for retards) game with an appealing art direction and/or known brand slapped on is how you make money.

Has Reinhardt ever fallen out of the meta at all?
I don't remember such a thing happening.

he was useless in dive

>cannot change role and switch to something else
wonderful casual cancer game
if you haven't quit this garbage game yet, now is the time

ha
haaha
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

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Exactly. There's a reason why all the "best" players played Terran

actually they all play Protoss now

Literally the best change they have made to the game since hero limits.

We ended up losing
It is all your fault
you should learn how this game works

with both this and hero limits, when you have to remove player choice to balance your game, you know you've done something wrong

it's impossible to have a dev like icefrog in this day and age

>completely anonymous or at least his identity is an open secret everyone respects and no one wants to say
>balances 95% around professional play with the 5% as a bonus for when pubs get too shitty
>widely if not universally respected by the community
>patch notes don't even have discussion/fluff behind them just plain straightforward notes on what changes happened
>has balanced a game for more than a decade
>potentially giving one man the sole power to dictate the state of a multi-million dollar game
>doesn't even talk to anybody and wholly silence
can you fucking imagine if some other company had a dev like this? people would fucking rake them over the coals.

Actually flash lost to effort in asl6
Jaedong and bisu have both won about the same amount of tournaments

i'm already tracer

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you are a complete moron, you cannot change to something that will immediately break the opponent's comp if you see an opportunity
you are locked to the same shit
you are >Literally a tranny

unironically consoles. you can't have balance if the majority of your playerbase plays with a controller.

That's because Flash fucked up with his vultures like a fucking noob. If he didn't lose those vultures he would have won the game

cool, show me your tits

Give me a situation where a 2/2/2 composition can't be broken by another 2/2/2 composition.

tasty

After over 300 posts ITT I've yet to see a single argument or explanation as to why. Just a handful of "waah waah Yea Forums is angsty and stoopid u don't even play it stop blunder posting" retarded ignorant posts.

>even with perfect accuracy
yeah ok scrub
keep telling yourself that
healing is easier than aiming, so at your trash skill level, it seems much stronger
people who can aim do not struggle to outpace healing
if you're fighting another player AND a support, and it's just you, it's a 1v2 and it should be hard (it's still doable; a single support's heals per second top out around 120ish, which is on the lower end of body shot dps, and completely outpaced by headshot dps).
if it's a 2v2 and you have another damage dealer with you, then both of you aiming will shred through healing like it's nothing
if it's a 2v2 and you have a support with you, they should be damage boosting, discording, anti-healing, or whatever they need to do to help you win that

They almost never switched roles anyway. All this does is kill GOATs which is fine.

welcome to Yea Forums, enjoy your stay.

They don't like the meta has become 3 tanks 3 supports. dps are non existent.

2/2/2 was the intended combination and it helps with balancing the game because you know what teams are limited to, instead of worrying about tanks overshadowing dps again

>Reduce queue randomness
>Easier to balance
>Will allow for characters with more varied kits

It isn't Yea Forums though, just a smattering of crybaby blizzdrones while everyone else correctly calls this shit out for what it is.
>>Easier to balance
Absolutely laughable.

>OW was so badly designed that competitive ended up locked into 3 tanks 3 supports, the most boring possible lineup, forever
>they were so desperate to break this that they ended up enforcing hard role limits
>nothing about the game has changed and DPS is still useless except Sombra so essentially what they've done is rendered one player on every pro team(who has to play a DPS that isn't sombra) completely irrelevant

>literally enforcing a meta
good lord how the fuck do people still play that shit

Dota benefits from having a true tournament format rather than the seasonal challenger league cancer that has, allowed an average of roughly 20 teams to play competitively per region, over the course of 5 entire years

Prolly. He took last asl off cause his hands are all dicked up

>Defending hero limits.
Fuck you, seeing a team go full Mcree or full Winston was comfy as Fug.

Then why not just balance the game around 2/2/2 instead of implementing arbitrary rulesets and pretending it's "easier to balance"

Sigma dick

Nobody does anymore, but people love shitting on it.

>Its laughable because I don't like it
>Also I will ignore the other 2 points

It's laughable because the fact they resort to this ruleset is a concession they can't balance the game and the other two "points" are just hamhanded conjecture.

And yet people in the Dota community will still call him a shit dev for changing anything despite Dota being in the best shape its ever been.

Why are they ruining themselves. I can understand trying to shift all your focus in China, but this?

Apart from some work in production during a live event, this is stupid.

Its funny because pharah used to counter shields. Back in the beta her wrist rocket did like 500 damage to any shield it hit, but dealt no knockback to the shielder. Maybe people will actually play her now

Lots of games can't be balanced. Why is moving towards more stable gameplay a bad thing? Do you think it was bad when they enforced hero limits?

Same shit with league these games are a joke

Why haven't they introduced any shield breaking weapons since then?
I feel like it would be an easy way to balance tanks.

What about rein though? His shield goes down pretty fast under sustained fire from even 2-3 people. Orisa's shield cooldown is ridiculous and you can have it up almost ad infinitem

Forced esports aside -
OW was the closest I got to getting into it but after trying to watch it the first time around (2017(?)) I found the fixtures totally fucked. You'd have friendlies or knockouts or whatever for weeks and the people presenting it had to scream at 1000 decibels like a bunch of autists just describing what you're already looking at.

>WoW is dead
It's more alive than fucking OW

>Why is moving towards more stable gameplay a bad thing
Blizzard implementing role queue/forced 2/2/2 into Overwatch is like admitting defeat when tasked with balancing their game for freeform compositions. The fanbase will like it cause it'll streamline the game even more (and it's not like OW was ever complex to begin with)

You can argue it's technically a good solutio because "more stable gameplay" just means casuals can play what they want with no risk of 5 DPS and comp can have heroes "overtuned" without risking 3+ supports/tanks every game, even though the game itself ends up losing depth and freedom of choice but when did modern Blizz or OW fans ever care about depth?

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>even cs:go is more entertaining when one of the teams goes only knife/revolver/deagle or 5 man awps
Ayy

Tanks with multiple supports just does dps job far better and more consistently. Unless dps were hard power creeped and dealt enough damage to 2 shot tanks I don't think it would change. And at that point the meta swaps to 3-4 dps because they're so broken and you have the same problem to begin with.

There's no way to balance for it without enforcing it to begin with, they always tried to push 2/2/2 with balance since the start but it's kinda fell to shit once people figured out how good tank/sup combo was

Originally overwatch had hero stacking where you could have 2-3 winstons for example which they tried to balance around before which was a complete mess so they had to do away with that idea and limit each hero to 1 per team.

That can usually be chalked up to shitty hype casters. I know it's their job to get the viewers excited but Jesus Christ you don't have to scream at every little play that happens.

>willingly got perma banned for spamming the dont you guys have phones and the tinnamen square copypasta for weeks making some of the asians disconnect
Feels good finally being able to not look back at that shitty game

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The alternative is to wait until a composition is discovered that has near unbreakable synergy (see: GOATs). There is still plenty of variable playstyles in 2/2/2 such as dive, deathball, bunker, spam, sniper, ect. It is limiting creativity, but again so was hero limits. And hero limits is pretty much universally agreed upon to be one of the best core changes to the game.

>Tanks with multiple supports just does dps job far better and more consistently.
And who's fault is that exactly?
>There's no way to balance for it without enforcing it to begin with
lol

One hero per player isn't comparable to maximum roles per team.

>hype
ah there's that shitty meme again. Everything has to be either the fucking best boner inducing thing in the world or it's dogshit. No inbetween anymore.

They were probably the biggest put off for me but then I'm 27 so I'm not the target audience. It's just too much, their job must involve not having more than a 2 second gap in commentary + the game audio was never turned down so the audience can hear the cues resulting in them screaming over that too

It is when speaking in terms of balance. Both have the same end goal which is limiting the amount of potential compositions.

shit maps dont help

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no skill ceiling on any class is the issue

they should have left the infinite wall run in

In the same way apples and oranges are both fruit.
One hero per player doesn't restrict creativity and depth anywhere near as much as restricting role compositions to 2/2/2

Medic is limited because
>Medics overhealing each other are nearly unkillable
>Removes the skill and strategy surrounding uber usage
>Flank doesn't have to rotate for heals
Uber chaining is easy to counter even without a pyro

Smash has to break the rules of the game for their own autism. The whole "Winner is person with most damage" isn't how Smash works but they did that because Sudden Death can be bullshit. However, even after its fixed they keep the made up rules. This rule is why some maps are banned BTW. Same for items in Smash actually. Was only banned because of exploding containers you couldn't individually turn off.

What? Yes it absolutely does. I don't have the exact numbers but there were millions of possible compositions before hero limits.

does blizz still nuke threads about OW being critisised on their forums?

universities are glorified trade schools
having an art degree just means you can paint a little and know some colour theory, it doesn't mean you're actually an artist

I have never watched a single owl match but this autistic rule.chamge unironically want to make me check it out. When's the next game being streamed, do they have a website?

funnily enough i can't tell which map this is supposed to be, looks like hanamura maybe

was made as a joke a year later Paris ended up 90% like that

No, it absolutely doesn't. By your logic forcing teams to use the exact same characters in each and every game would be a good change because it makes the game easier to balance, even though it limits creativity and depth. Otherwise you have to concede limiting duped picks is not the same as forcing a 2-2-2 comp.

I think another knight-themed character would be fun. Like a guy whose ult is he has a cyber horse and lance that penetrates shields and armor with a long melee reach.

Art schools are not universities.

shit to play and shit to watch
it's just because blizzard is trying to force it right?

I haven't played overwatch since 3 months after its release but I can say with 100% certainty that this is that one "Russian"/industrial map

Hasn't this been happening in a roundabout way for a while? Didn't Blizz start banning people for going "off meta" in ranked play or whatever? IIRC didn't League do similar shit too? I only very briefly touched both games but it seems against the idea of a meta if the devs are stifling any attempt to shift said meta.

It's 2019 and Blizzard still doesn't realize bottom-up is far superior to top-down.

Really was, 3 winston rushing the point was as unkillable as 0/3/3 is now. It's not a fun time and limited on what you can use because the enemy can just triple winston or dva your windowmaker/supports with zero counterplay for surviving

They can't balance the game for shit in general, it's been tank support comps for roughly 10 seasons now and it hasn't hardly changed, if anything it becomes more permanent with new supports and tanks only making it better. You're either going to choose between "creative teams but not really it's 3 tanks 3 supports" or 2/2/2 ones where 16 of the dps heroes can finally see play again. Most are sick with the game and choose the latter at this point

>That time in Dota 2 where a pro forged the meme Crit + Stats build for Juggernaut, destroyed the meta for months and was pretty much singlehandedly responsible for the removal of stats in 7.00

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Yes, I do concede that limiting the game to the same six heroes would make it easier to balance. Significantly so actually. It wouldn't make the game fun however.

Well hype casting is as old as broadcasting events has been a thing, even in sports. They get paired with an analyst caster whose job is to explain things and the hype caster is there to banter and get people excited. The problem is they go too far to one extreme because then you sound like you're getting way too excited over nothing. A good caster knows when to dial it back if the play isn't that amazing, like the ones in earlier rounds of CSGO or in early game Dota2 when ganks are expected.

That nigger robot's shield is designed to respawn as soon as 1 or 2 heroes can break it down. It's absurd. You have to have your whole team focus firing a shield to even have a chance to break their defenses and it just comes back a few seconds later anyway.

Yes it would make the game fun. Why is moving towards more stable gameplay a bad thing?

Fucking good. I tuned into a OW league stream out of curiosity and it was fucking cancer because of the players. The entire fucking match was people swapping characters to counter the other teams picks that they switched to to counter the other team. Maybe now they'll stop being meta fags and actually get good at the game.

>can't balance the game without it being reduced to 3 tanks 3 support so they need to impose an arbitrary ruleset instead

All this say is Overwatch is shit and if you choose to play this you have shit for brains

>The entire fucking match was people swapping characters to counter the other teams picks that they switched to to counter the other team.
It's almost as if that's how the game was designed to be played in the first place.

Please do not call the only cute girl in Overwatch a nigger.

Just buff DPS Blizzard nobody would cry at players actually dying fast because they don't have a healer on them. The stupid poking in OW with the healing, barriers, shields, w/e is fucking awful.

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GOATS was on its way out and then Blizzard forces this shit through

How far can you push the limits of skill in Overwatch anyway? With all these nonsensical skills everywhere, especially the ults, it feels like it takes away a lot from sheer spectacle of mechanical/strategic skill a player can display.

And even beyond that, how far can you push the mechanics of the game? How outlandish can you truly get with meme shittery and still make it work?

Players should not be allowed to shift the meta, otherwise there's no way to balance for it without enforcing it to begin with. Why is moving towards more stable gameplay a bad thing? Hero limits is pretty much universally agreed upon to be one of the best core changes to the game, same thing here.

You're being intentionally obtuse.

TF2 never tried this desperately to be a legitimate fucking multi-million dollar e-sport.

That's not how obtuse works. Now answer the question.

>can't fix goats
>so have to manually lock roles for everyone
lmfao ow balancing fucking sucks ass

STOP
HAVING
FUN
INCORRECTLY

>imagine playing overwatch in 2019

That being said, can I still find a cis girl through overwatch and have her become my wife after meeting with her a few times?

There's literally an item toggle in the game and an option to turn them all off, in fact its under the rules section even. That's not "breaking the rules". Sudden death is still bullshit, how did they fix it? Maps are banned because the stages are just poorly fit for a 1v1 scenario for multitude of reasons. Items are off because keeping them on is a bigger stretch of rules than off, actually. Which items do you keep on? At what frequency? Not to mention item spawn locations are still random and lot of items are powerful enough to completely invalidate someone outplaying you. In fact Smash is the perfect example of how a meta evolves. They DID play with items on and an expanded stage list in early Melee meta. Eventually the players agreed it wasn't healthy for the games competition that way and alleviated the issues.

>It's almost as if that's how the game was designed to be played in the first place.
No wonder its fucking shit.

Because you're taking my argument and pushing it to the most extreme in an attempt to have a "gotcha" moment. Yes, you are being obtuse. Stability isn't the most important thing in its own right. A game is supposed to be fun at the end of the day. You need to have a middle between the two. You likely know this by virtue of playing video games.

>Buff dps
>Back to right click mccree days where he can one shot tanks
Yeah no

Players will naturally gravitate toward what the best team comp is, this is a fact. Once that's found out, players will attempt to find a counterplay to that. If counterplay doesn't exist then that's when the dev steps in. If the dev is worth their salt they'll watch their game and see what is currently winning and balance around that. People shouldn't be fucking punished because people are finding (or trying to find) answers to popular setups. If a dev dictates the meta that heavily then it isn't really a meta, it's the dev forcing their ideals down your throat. It shows the players and devs both lack the ability to adapt to a shift that isn't pre-determined

Wait, what?
How would a Jugg who only went crit skill and stats be meta breaking when compared to, say, a Faceless who went the same way?

Only because Valve was too late and too retarded to realize that there are a bunch of autistic fucks who take TF2 seriously. Thank god honestly TF2 competitive is and continues to remain the black sheep.

>GOATS literally solved Overwatch so hard that blizzard had to do this
Has any strat been so brainlessly dominant in a multiplayer game like this?

2 Soldiers, 1 Demoman, 1 Medic

TF2 is so solved that the core meta hasn't changed in years.

They have been working on this for well over a year. GOATs definitely contributed, but I wouldn't say its the only reason.

Because Blade Fury scaled like shit and had no use beyond an on command BKB for defence, and the stats + 35% crit chance combined with 200% damage meant Jugg could literally three-shot people at the same level.

No, you were being obtuse in the first place by using one hero limit to justify an arbitrary forced 2-2-2 role composition.
> Stability isn't the most important thing in its own right.
It is when speaking in terms of balance. And since you've decided the need for "stability" and making the game easier to balance outweighs the need for depth and creativity, then you can just as easily justify forced character picks just as you can forced role composition. Both have the same end goal which is limiting the amount of potential compositions, thereby making the game easier to balance. And if you can't balance your game without forced compositions then your game isn't fun to play.

GOATs is alreadyout. The game is currently in the middle of a big meta shift centered around Sombra. Bunker compositions are also looking very strong.

stats increase attack speed and damage
blade dance has a 35% proc chance with double damage
buy items that increase attack speed plus damage + deal aoe like mask of madness, maelstrom, crystalys etc.
attack and crit so often that people melt

>It is when speaking in terms of balance. And since you've decided the need for "stability" and making the game easier to balance outweighs the need for depth and creativity, then you can just as easily justify forced character picks just as you can forced role composition.
Again, disagree. As I said in the last post there needs to be a middle between having fun and a balanced game. Non forced 2/2/2 was too random to balance, and getting 4 support mains on your team was not fun. I would have a ton of fun if Doomfist was in his launch state, but that would not be balanced. I have a ton of fun playing Sombra currently, but she is not balanced.
>And if you can't balance your game without forced compositions then your game isn't fun to play.
Nonsense. Look at TF2 sixes meta. Sixes is still a blast to this day and probably the most fun I have ever had in a game.

A mccree should absolutely be able to melt a tank like roadhog upclose in a 1v1 by using literally all of his abilities and every single shot of his lands all in rapids succession if that roadhog doesnt heal or stun the mccree. Theres so much bullshit in this game from one way shields to passive healing, constant 2v1s, abilities that eat up or cancel any of your shit, that its kindve retarded that one of the highest DPSes was nerfed into the ground to protect the precious tanks, only for a tank meta to form for the longest time.

Man, and I thought League was bad.

Should have been this way from the start desu

>Tanks are useless and there is no reason to pick them
>I KNOW, LETS JUST FOR THEM TO PICK TANKS
Truly amazing.

But the meta right now is literally 3 Tanks + 3 Healers.

Icefrog is an anomaly. It’s amazing he does the wildest, stupidest shit and the game is still pretty much fine. The past few years have been really balanced with only one or two obvious fuck ups (overbuffing Drow)

>he does the wildest
Yes.

>stupidest
Low IQ post.

>As I said in the last post there needs to be a middle between having fun and a balanced game.
This is a false dichotomy. You can have a balanced game that is also fun, Blizzard being completely inept at balancing doesn't change that fact.
>Non forced 2/2/2 was too random to balance, and getting 4 support mains on your team was not fun
Just as non-forced character picks are too random to balance, and having multiple team compositions is "not fun".

>Nonsense. Look at TF2 sixes meta.
Your example is nonsense, nobody who has seen 6s thinks only 4 classes are played

>comparing your competitive scene to tf2 competitive scene
That's just sad.

why would you even play a game this bad? It's poorly designed and they keep killing potential for fun

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>Non forced 2/2/2 was too random to balance

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it doesnt matter anyways since the game is filled with human viewbot/ token farmers who afk the stream.

overwatch league is as dead as it can be once the player base leaves.

2 more years and a lot of lawsuit is going to go upon activision blizzard from investors once the investors figure out they are getting fooled by padded viewership. expect activision blizzard stock to fall even further.

There are legit idiots who slurp this shit up. I know at least one I used to hang out with, even buys the stupid fucking merchandise

>No more stupid meme comps like 6 supports or 5 tanks 1 Lucio
At least it'll be easier to play Hammond now since he makes no sense and is easier to play into a 2/2/2 than into some DPS shitter comp.

>only 2 posts in this entire thread mentioning trinity
Yea Forums, you need to stop being such fucking idiots. OW wasn't just doomed from the start because it had retards in charge, it was doomed because it had retards who only knew how to make Holy Trinity designs.
Holy Trinity is a cancer that kills everything it touches. The idea of tank - healer - dps meta is horrible. There's a reason mobas have supports instead of hard healers

There is a poison in modern team games now in the form of the dev mentality “you should only die if you make a mistake”. This means DPS characters aren’t rewarding because they can’t kill anyone unless they fuck up, so optimal overwatch play is just picking the tank and healer characters with the highest stats and winning via math.

2 of Mercy, Lucio, Zen
Reinhardt and Orissa
Sombra and Mei

Why couldn't they stick with the FPS MOBA idea?
>inb4 it is a MOBA already lel
Harr harr, very funny. But seriously, why did they change gears to a Team Fortress clone? I honestly can't think of any FPS MOBAs out there. Like with towers and minion waves and what not. There's probably at least a niche you can tap into there.

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>patch notes don't even have discussion/fluff behind them just plain straightforward notes on what changes happened
This is my favorite thing. It was amazing to watch patch streams and see pros who’ve played the game for decades being absolutely flabbergasted at whatever shit the frog came up with. And then be absolutely wrong about how it all turned out. It’s so gross to me other devs actually have to explain every single change to their idiotic fanbase who’d love it no matter what.

Because the dotard is a sick, twisted creature of pure autism fueled by salt. But they do love their game.

>wh*toid male
(X) Doubt

There’s a reason the dota scene has collectively mocked LD’s “wow” for almost six years

I have literally not heard a piece of news about this game that the community was positive about.

I thought it was because of things like the ricing AM players like burning. I don’t even remember what you’re talking about

Non-trinity design is too random to balance, and getting killed by DPS when you didn't make any mistakes isn't fun. It's not a fun time and limited on what you can use because the enemy can just triple winston or dva your windowmaker/supports with zero counterplay for surviving

You can’t tell me respawn talents weren’t fucking stupid.

This. Even Siege, a game that only real similarity to MOBAs is that there are unique characters, has a ban phase that everyone praises.

Nonsense. The community loved when they announced Soldier 76 is gay.

Try looking at reddit or their forums

I'm sure that would be the case if the current Overwatch devs tried to balance for something other than trinity, but if you put any other team with a modicum of talent in charge they'd be able to balance it and make a fun game without needing to force a emta.
Holy trinity doomed the game.

you retarded niggers, the whole ricing hero skilling up stats and scaling passive was around long before that in both proband pub play

Holy Trinity saved the game. There's no way to balance for it without enforcing it to begin with, they always tried to push 2/2/2 with balance since the start but it's kinda fell to shit once people figured out how good tank/sup combo was. Originally overwatch had hero stacking where you could have 2-3 winstons for example which they tried to balance around before which was a complete mess so they had to do away with that idea and limit each hero to 1 per team.

POST
>YFW YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED A SECOND OF OVERCRINGE

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>have to change seats
God that sounds insanely annoying to have to get your chair height and monitor distance all perfect again. Not to mention you'd have to rebind all your keys....

its an esports game from the ground up you worthless zoomers and thats never gonna change
the point is not to have fun

youtube.com/watch?v=NyMW-M_HBbo

play TF2 instead

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You keep looking at it from a business perspective.

>>Instead of balancing for risk/reward, balance it for every character must have equal outcome
This is pretty much it

"Mac, we've seen the bike."

This. Fuck valvetrannies

>Muh logic
There is logic in these rules. It's easier to balance. I'm not saying I like it or like the game but it's easy to see why they did it.

didn't mean to make a reply but ok

I have zero knowledge about esports. Why is this a bad thing?

>He still thinks that Abdul is the only one balancing dota

...

ITT: people who used to shit on OW for being a dead game for never changing but now complaining that it’s changing too much.

Also, the amount of people saying that this change was to stop 3-3 obviously haven’t played overwatch recently at all. This change doesn’t hurt “creativity”. If anything, it allows for more comps to be viable and different characters to be run

That probably sounded a lot more clever in your head.

Limiting the game to the same six heroes would also make it easier to balance. Significantly so actually. Both make the game less fun however.

You're being intentionally obtuse

He’s obviously not, but he’s still there. He sometimes pulls shit he tried back in WC3, like somehow it’ll be better this time around. I don’t know why he feels the need to fuck with phase/treads every so often

Based

>This change doesn’t hurt “creativity”. If anything, it allows for more comps to be viable and different characters to be run
They are literally forcing a single comp.

Cringe

desu I'm kind of glad OW exists though. takes all the no-fun esports faggots away from TF2.

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MAN, YOU KNOW WHAT I LIKE ABOUT FPS GAMES? IT'S WHEN THERE ARE A MILLION SHIELDS SO YOU DO 0 DAMAGE. THEN YOU GOTTA FIGHT THROUGH THEIR ARMOR. AFTER THAT, YOU HAVE TO BEAT THEIR LUDICROUS HEALING HEROES' HEALTH REGEN. Mmmm hmm yeah that sure is fun. I enjoy FPS games where the damage characters can do 0 damage. Lovin' that impactful gameplay right there. Just a blast to play.

>people who used to shit on OW...for never changing
I'll take shit that never happened for $500 Alex

holy shit
HOTS died for this

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Based maverick poster

I took a look at the Overwatch patch video and people seem to be excited about it? Why? I thought this would cause uproar.

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Being able to kill anyone on your own is toxic shitlord.

Kill me, Pete

Yeah but he's guaranteed to lose so it means he'll never be within my SR range

There are 7 tanks, 7 healers, and 16 dps.

The amount of possible comps is ((7 choose 2)^2)*(16 choose 2), which equals 52920. If you think 52920 different comps doesn’t provide enough room for choices and creativity, you’re a retard.

But also people are just going to make copy comps based on whatever the pros say is the meta anyways.

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How is that any different than the first example? You're basically saying throwing the game is never a problem because they're not in your SR

Umm, sweetie, why should my heal target ever die if I'm still healing him? Reported for toxicity. Bye~

biggest problem is they realized they couldn't actually balance the meta for their pro scene without completely destroying ladder. Right now tanks and supports dominate the pro meta so all you need to do is nerf them and buff DPS right? Wrong, as lower ranks (where virtually the entire player base lives) is dominated mostly by DPS already and tanks are generally underpowered. So if they actually balance the game to stabilize the pro meta they'll burn down the entire game. Hence the forced role solution.

Ppl realize this is just pros right?
Still gay but effects no one but pros

in first example you carried him to a win inflating his SR

2-2-2 is a single comp

If you think there are more viable characters in this single composition than every other possible comp _combined_, you're a massive retard.

Granted you have to be profoundly retarded to defend Blizzard's "balance" decisions to begin with, but I digress.

it's coming to main game, with role specific SR

2 tanks 2 heals 2 dps user. Every team, every match, all the time forever.

>source: my ass
Not all heroes are equally difficult to play. If you want a low risk character, you can play something like brigitte, mercy, or soldier, or if you want a hero that’s higher risk and harder to play, you can choose something like doomfist, genji, or widow.

This is hardly a solved meta. The 3 tanks/3 supports meta that has been dominant for awhile, just over the past few months has changed naturally on its own, the the point where this stage’s overwatch league champions didn’t even use that comp. Saying the game is completely solved is just wrong and makes you look like a retard. If you don’t like the core gameplay, that’s fine. Not every game is for everyone, but you’re just shitting on it in the most disingenuous way.

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Why is Dota 2 the only esport with a rich and varied meta?

Remember when 2 Tracer/2 Winston/2 Lucio was a thing? They had to implement the hero limit to bring a stop to it, but the game has continued to have cancerous metas regardless. It's just the way the game is designed, it's an inevitability.

It was allowed to grow organically and the devs aren't complete retards. Dota does some questionable shit from time to time but it always comes back around

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Items + a huge roster that allows hero bans

Because is balanced around the best players.

Yes there are obviously less possible comps than before, but that doesn’t matter because there’s still tons to choose from. You’re acting as if every tank plays the same and fulfills the same role as every other tank (and the same for the other 2 roles), when that couldn’t be further from the truth.

it's easier to balance because the less diverse a game is, the less variables there are, and therefore, it is simpler to balance.

The other major reason for role lock is to help support pro players. Imagine if you are a top tier goalie, but suddenly goalies are no longer in the meta. You either have to pick up a new role (which you may have difficulty doing considering you are playing against guys who have thousands more hours of practice than you) or just quit.

Not having contracts is super unprofessional, and delegitimizes being a pro gamer as a real job with actual job security.

Hi Mcfli, keep up the good work

>using sports analogies
There's a reason no one takes e"""""""""""""""sports""""""""""""""" seriously

I've been playing since early DotA Allstars days and I think its the best its even been.

>They DID play with items on and an expanded stage list in early Melee meta.
only filthy w*st coastoids did this. modern melee rules stem from based east coast tradition, specifically MDVA.

Trying to cater to both casuals and pros while also forcing mmorpg design into a fps.

>"we feel brigitte isn't strong enough outside of 3-3"
>nerf her through the ground into an early grave and change her gameplay to generic healbot
poor brigitte
oh well I already stopped playing a few weeks ago, now I won't ever need to start again with this and rolelock killing the retarded fun that were 1 support 5 dps shenanigans

the developers actually tried to balance it

Matchmaking is a disease in video games.

I'm sure they'll start caring when dota doesn't dominate the top esport earnings by a wide margin

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No its a casual game that theyre trying to jam into the e-sports shaped hole.

Overwatch has lots of design problems, from the maps to the ultimates, the state of healing isn't the only issue.

the tedium
items and resource control and talents and creeps and blah blah blah blah blah
every single one of these things is influenced uniquely by small differences in how characters act and interact on a base level
like theres a billion variables
in overwatch theres like, 4

or if youre asking why the other ones are shit its because the people developing them are incompetent
theres no way to learn how game design and balance should work aside from playing games, many games, at a high level, and then thinking about how those games should play and what problems exist for them at each broad skill tier
a degree in "game design" is worth less than a cup of coffee, and these people they employ fundamentally do not understand how video games should play to make people happy with them
plus 9/10 times these decisions are made by committee anyway and these people are basically just the last resort catch for unbelievably stupid bullshit slipping through and generally dont even work because theyre all fucking morons, since obviously only a genuine idiot would get a degree in "game design" or whatever else it is that qualified them to work in that position to begin with

its not a coincidence that the team responsible /infamous for "good-ish balance" were mostly pulled directly from the gaming community and were basically just enthusiastic, passionate hobbyists at the beginning

It's the white sheep among black sheeps.

They made a game that's intentionally easy for newcomers but also expected it to work at higher level comp play.

You cannot have both, fighting games have been trying it for years now in an attempt to "broaden the appeal" and it always backfires because PEOPLE DON'T WATCH PROS PLAY TO SEE SOMETHING THEY THEMSELVES CAN DO.

They watch pros to see people do stuff they can't.

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>theres no way to learn how game design and balance should work aside from playing games, many games, at a high level, and then thinking about how those games should play and what problems exist for them at each broad skill tier
I'm not so sure about that. High-level players are as prone to bias as anyone else, if not more so. They often have iffy ideas on game balance.

One of my friend attend overwatch league and it was a empty akward show with like 100 people in the stand.The thing i dont understand is how they are able to pull 50k plus on twitcht for this snooze fest.

tf2 only has 9 classes

see this is where youre misinterpreting
the idea isnt that being a high level player qualifies you to design games, its that a designer/coordinator cannot be good without being competent at a number of games at a reasonably high level
high level players are just as prone to being selfish, myopic morons as anyone else, but that level of experience is required to make fully informed decisions about games in a design capacity
so its a prerequisite, not an automatic qualification

Offering in-game rewards and viewbots?

Some organnization bought a ticket before beta was release .They really tought they were gona on top.

d4 is rumored to be a fps and , overwatch 2 to be a left for dead but with robots.We will see blizzard died in ou lifetime.

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They literally bribe their userbase to come and watch it (AKA link their accounts to twitch, then turn it on muted in a tab they aren't looking at) with in-game shit. Overwatch has trained it's playerbase well with their lootboxes.

Rounds are too short, which is especially noticable in koth. Usual round has one team capture it first, hold it for a minute, recapture it and win. Maybe add a rotation.
It should have a game mode where you can just fuck around, like some two fort matches in tf2. But whenever the game picks up, you're interrupted by a match end.

Aside from all the other problems like chokepoints.