Didn't beat the game on hardest difficulty and complete all it has to offer

>didn't beat the game on hardest difficulty and complete all it has to offer
>thinks he/she can critique or praise the game
stop this shit

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Hoe can you beat any game when you're always too busy guzzling gallons of cum, op?

>playing games with a difficulty option
actual brainlet

>r3[)[)1+ frog

not selecting normal difficulty just for fun, sorry I'm not a masochist I bought a video game for personal enjoyment

>only plays single player games
>thinks they are good at videogames

you just summarized DMC shitters. Most of them can't even get past Goliath on Devil Hunter difficulty

Any decent game is meant to be played on the hardest difficulty as the bona fide experience. Easier difficulties are for casuals and retards.

if the game's difficulty is nothing but buffed health and nerfed player damage it can fuck off

right as a 6 year old I should have cranked up doom to ultra nightmare hell mode right

or for my first fps on console I should have played on legendary

nah blood

the most egregious offense is not letting skilled players exploit movement, or allow them to blow through a game

I would rather exploit clever movement, than be forced to watch cinematic or a quicktime event

>first fps on console
keep damaging controlling underage redditard

I play League, R6 Siege, ToS, PS, and a few other games and am top 1% or higher in every single one.

>[No] character action games
???
Name 1 character action game that doesn't have difficulty settings

my first fps on a console I owned was halo 1 or 2 I'd I recall correctly

my cousin had goldeneye and rainbow six which I played when I was probably 9 or 10, are you mad yet

all games that require little skill

Christ, this level of delusion

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What are some games with good hard mode that don't just increase enemy health values? What I mean is they really change how the game is played? I'll start with five(5).
>Halo CE
>Wonderful 101
>Nocturne
>Fire Emblem 7
>Any game with Dynamic Difficulty

hit number keys, watch a doorway, wow such skill

Play a match right now and stream it to prove who's better. Neither of you will though because Yea Forums is all talk now.

Killzone 2, Max Payne 3, Catherine, XCOM, NG series, Furi, The Evil Within, Vanquish, Dead Space.

Are those all games with Dynamic Difficulty?

>Doesnt play competitive smash
>Constantly complains about smash
why do people do this?

actually I was 9 when halo 1 came out

so I must have played goldeneye and rainbow 6 when I was 7

and I played doom when I was 6

I got the Xbox when I was 10 or 11, making the first shooter I owned halo 1 or 2, don't quite remember

I'm not sure what you mean by dynamic? That it changes based on performance? No, I know very few games like that. But they are played differently and a satisfying challenge without feeling cheap or frustrating on the hardest difficulty.

I don't play games that require no skill

That's an automatic concession you'd lose.

Most games at their max difficulty are not the way to be played and were added in as an afterthought to fill the checklist. Very few are actually intended to be played at max, and I doubt you even play those games.

Changes based on performance. Max Payne 3 actually does have it.

any other games you play that require skill we can compare, because mobas and seige don't cut it

This. Doom Nightmare is just anti-fun.

This. Completionists, rise up.

Name them. I have played and beaten more difficult games than the vast majority of Yea Forums and am always up for a new challenge.

Not that I recall? In what way? There is 3 "hardest" difficulties, NYMH, old-school, and hardcore, neither of these does that.

Right because you'd get crushed if you two played MOBA or Siege. This is a moot point though since neither of you will actually play.

If you die a bunch at a checkpoint, you get extra painkillers on your next attempt

why would I invest time in something as brain numbing as a moba or seige I would need sub 100 iq to consider them games

post your stats in a game with actual gameplay, so we can compare

not fucking doorway simulator, or 1 lane rts

If that is true then you should understand that there are good high difficulties and bad high difficulties. Shit like the CoD or the Witcher at highest difficulty was an afterthought and adds nothing to the game. Something like a shmup at higher difficulties actually has meaning and should be played.

I don't believe that is on hardcore, but not sure. Usually dynamic difficulty is in the context of getting harder based on performance though. I actually found hardcore mode to not be hard at all, and usually had plenty of extra painkillers. Since you have to play thru many times to get to hardcore, it was a breeze by that point.

>Not games I'm bad at only games I'm good at
Embarrassing cope.

Witcher 1 and 3 are meant to be played at max difficulty. 2 is the only one that has non-essential high difficulty modes.

anyone can be good at seige it requires inaction to be successful, it's the lack of doing something, you watch a doorway for 2 minutes each round, then in between round you stare at character potraits for 30 seconds, it isn't a game

I'm also not impressed by 1 lane rts players

Dota 2 is free, you two could play a match and put your money where your mouths are. This won't happen because again you're both cowards but it would have on old Yea Forums. I guess I should be used to disappointment and the changing userbase of redditors but I never can quite get myself there...

I don't play 1 lane rts games because it's the same as me getting up and making toast right now, it isn't an accomplishment

Did you actually think Witcher at max difficulty was a fun or engaging experience? It's no different than playing Skyrim at max difficulty. It adds no complexity and just makes the game tedious.
The devs can say it's the "way it was meant to be played" all they want to look hardcore, but it's clearly not the case.

Yes, obviously. However that is a poor example. Some CoD are really fun on veteran, and even for the "frustrating" or "cheap" games, it's just about knowing the techniques and you can beat them relatively consistently. I would say at least hardened is the difficulty you should play on, but veteran is fun when you understand that the game plays differently than lower difficulties (this is for the older CoDs, I stopped playing them after BO2).

I don't think a shmup is a good example though unless it is well-made with interesting enemy layouts, boss patterns, variety of weapons, that is unique and randomized to some degree with some form of tracking attacks that requires strategy and planning as well as quick reactions and pattern recognition.

Many shmups, especially bullet hells, are uninspired garbage usually made by one person living in a third world shithole. "Game design" consists of spamming the screen with slow moving intricate bullet blobs, with an extreme emphasis on muscle memory and autism. No skill, intelligence, reaction time, reading of opponents, planning ahead, or multitasking are required. It's the most simple genre in terms of mechanics and inputs, and it's only hard because the genre is so shallow and boring on its own accord that this ""difficulty"" is the only thing that makes it stand out from its own mediocrity. Also has animu girls for no reason other than that weebs will eat up any garbage with animu girls.

It clearly is the case because Hardest mode in Witcher 1 and 3 is the only mode where you must use all your vocations (potions, signs, oils, monster knowledge) to be effective in combat. The normal and easy modes are simply too easy because you can ignore all those mechanics.

Witcher 3 is literally one of the most braindead and boring games on the hardest difficulty. The gameplay is abysmal even compared to most RPGs. The only redeeming qualities are the story and writing so why the fuck would you ever play on Death March. And yes, I have beat Death March. And yes it was a fucking snoozefest.

>posts reddit frog
>Plays ASSFAGGOTS, Fortnite, and ToS
>considers Witcher 3 and Dota 2 the apex of challenging gameplay
Welcome to post-election Yea Forums everybody

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You have no idea what you're talking about. Witcher 3 is braindead and boring on every difficulty but Death March because you can just spam click and quen everything (you can do so in Death March but only after building your character to do so). You probably thought it was a snoozefest because you didn't both to use all the advanced mechanics to buff your character. If you did do all those things and you still found it a "fucking snoozefest" then you're kind of a retard for playing the game all the way through with it without finding it fun.

>potions
tedious. There is no challenge to this
>signs
Signs are the cheesiest part of the game
>oils
same as potions
>monster knowledge
You had difficulty with this?
The normal and easy modes are too easy because the core game itself is too easy. This is like saying WoW takes skill because you have to spend so much time grinding better gear

That's a really complicated way of saying you're so bad at games you can't even beat a touhou game on easy modo

You have no clue what you're talking about user. For a start "muscle memory and autism" are meaningless descriptions. Because the games are routing based the "muscle memory" only comes after you figure out a plan which can range from easy to very tricky, and different strats can make for very different levels of execution difficulty. Bullet hells are games of simplifying chaos, breaking down patterns into components in your mind and understanding how they work then getting that understanding down to muscle memory. Players who are deliberate in how they break down and learn games are always much MUCH more efficient and have an easier time building muscle memory than shitters who just memorize the most obvious route. Then you have scoring which is a completely different dimension and has so much routing depth and requires so much experimentation that its extremely unlikely that you will reach decent scores without some ammount of community collab. On top of this it gives meaning to every second of gameplay and adds short and long term resource management. Almost all games have some amount or RNG, some of them like Xevious 3D/G have a lot of it and it impacts basic survival.

No, I have done pretty well on some shmups and am actually in top 5 leaderboard in one of them, I just find them to be very boring and rarely play them.

Muscle memory is when your body just adapts to something due to repetition and the fact that the game is not dynamic or randomized or unique each playthrough so you just keep doing the same braindead muscle memory. I mean obviously some people are better than others and some people adapt faster than others, but it is still absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of skill or strategy and has the simplest range of inputs where difficulty is the crutch for lack of interesting or well-designed gameplay.

When you play the same shitty anime schoolgirl weaving through bullets for hundreds of hours that was designed by some nobody in his basement, I guess you have to convince yourself that it is a well-designed game or that anyone cares.

They have very well designed dynamic gameplay though and allow you to effectively choose your own level of engagement and challenge in a similar vein to racing games because of how any well made scoring system works. You're talking cock, I can only imagine you playes the most simplistic 80s and early 90s games like Raiden and R Type to have this opinion OR you completely ignored scoring despite the games and levels being built around those systems. If you just play a basic move and shoot game ignoring all their deeper systems then yeah youre going to get a basic move and shoot game. Same as if you play racing games against braindead AI instead of getting good times and playing online.

Image
>posts reddit frog
Pepe is part of Yea Forums culture and has been for years
>Plays ASSFAGGOTS, Fortnite, and ToS
Nobody has mentioned Fortnite, and League and ToS are legitimately great games that Yea Forums has always enjoyed
>considers Witcher 3 and Dota 2 the apex of challenging gameplay
Witcher 3, fuck no. Dota 2, yes, very close to it, certainly much more difficult than pretty much any singleplayer game.

>Welcome to post-election Yea Forums everybody
Fuck off retard, show what dogshit game you consider to be the "apex of challenging gameplay." Let me guess, some P* shit, or perhaps DMC, or perhaps some random SNES game.

Buddy, we really don't care that you spent hundreds of hours navigating a field of bullets and it was discovered that using this ability at this moment gets you the most points. There is a very cut and dry optimal strategy for these games that is achieved through hours upon hours of mindless muscle memory bullshit.

The "cut and dry optimal strategy" gets slowly worked on over years by the top players collectively discovering the games, even the developers have no idea what the upper ceiling is. Just because a solution exists in the code does not mean it's easy to figure out. But if you care more about keeping your assumptions than figuring out what the games are like then go right ahead I guess.

>certainly much more difficult than pretty much any singleplayer game.

Nah, plenty of singleplayer games have skill caps unreachable for humans such as chess & tetris where the ai will always beat you. But yeah it's harder than anything designed to be fun...obviously.

>Completely ignores the Reddit call out. Then continues to prove he's from reddit
Ishygddt

Imagine being elitist about games.
How pathetic are your lives that you can only measure somebody's worth by how well they waggle sticks?

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You're still from reddit

Yes, same for literally every other fucking genre and game in existence you mong.

The developers have no idea because the game is completely braindead to design because it's poor game design, you could literally design levels with a random number generator and retards will eat it up if it has anime girls. Please just realize you are a dumbfuck wasting your time on irrelevant bullshit that nobody cares about and is shoddily designed garbage in majority of cases (they pump these games out like a sweatshop).

Compare something like League (which people even consider more accessible than other MOBAs) where tens of millions of people regularly play it and spend thousands and thousands of hours just trying to just get to diamond. The people who succeed in it are the top .0001% and are generally very high IQ individuals who see the game from a totally different perspective and could literally talk for hours and hours on end about game theory and meta and tactics, and there is a team of hundreds of people who work on continually updating and balancing it and changing the meta. Then compare that to some shitty game where you go "here we go again" and run the same fucking braindead path through a giant blob of bullets down to the pixel and millisecond and hope that your hands memorize the path exactly and you don't fuck up while not needing intelligence, reaction time, reading of opponents, planning ahead, strategy, knowledge of meta, or multitasking.

Why are you guys arguing with a retarded frogposter? Do you have nothing better to do on a Wednesday night? Odds are he's just pretending to be retarded for (you)s.

Do you really have so little to be proud of that you have to put other people down because they haven't put hours of autism into your hobby?

That's only because there is no AI nearly advanced enough to play traditional competitive videogames. Of course a fully optimized AI that is playing at or near GTO will beat any human in a strategy game unless the skill ceiling game of the game is so absurdly low to the level of tic-tac-toe or something lol

>Yes, same for literally every other fucking genre and game in existence you mong.

Except most genres aren't solely fucking based around discovering the optimal route/timing like racing, shmups and some other arcade genres are the skill ceiling has to be self imposed for the most part through challenges like speedrunning or other completely arbitrary criteria. But yes most games have nearly unlimited skill ceilings if you're willing to put the time into them.

I don't care about this mp vs sp nonsense, obviously direct multiplayer will be more dynamic and usually more challenging but that doesn't really mean anything since a skill cap is a skill cap. You're simply poorly characterizing a genre dismissing all of its strengths out of sheer ignorance or stupidity, and assume everybody else is as dumb as you are. As I said they require planning, careful experimentation, multitasking, some reaction and so on.

This "look how many skills it tests!" discussion is a waste of time as well, who gives a shit? It's like dismissing purely physical achievements like sprint records irl because they "only" test a very specific set of skills. Achievement is achievement, and exceptional performance is always impressive if you understand what goes into it.

I mean if you enjoy it then you do you. But I would much rather play a game that is engaging and in-depth and you can always learn more about and deepen your understanding of rather than "dood lol spend a hundred hours learning this bullet pattern!"

The argument about difficulty is irrelevant because any game or genrecan be absurdly difficult, often beyond the levels of human ability, if it is designed to be so. I can design a shooter where you need to shoot at precise pixel locations at exact times or you lose, but that is a shit fucking game. I can design a pixel perfect platformer based of me just randomly jumping around and then designing obstacles around that specific path, but that is a shit fucking game. Bullet hells have some of the lowest range of mechanical inputs, some of them just utilize directional, while some may incorporate an ability or a bomb that you use occasionally. While most games in other genres have much more range of inputs and a degree of strategy or planning ahead or something that makes runs varied and unique; they just don't require exact pixel and millisecond planning because that is just not fun.

There are certainly some fun shmups, but most are pure garbage, and I would never spend hundreds of hours because it's just not satisfying to overcome. For example, I got all the ironmans in Super Meat Boy, which was really hard, but it was completely unsatisfying and was more of a feeling of relief that I am done with this shit game and I feel like I learned nothing and didn't improve in any way beyond just muscle memory bullshit.

I wouldn't say so since SC2 AI can already btfo pros, it's still relying on execution as a crutch but it still had limited apm and used strategy so we might not be too far off from AI surpassing human players. Doubt many will want to play against it though

>reddit spacing
>writing long ass paragraphs in a bait thread
Imagine being this retarded.

The point is more that singleplayer games are either a) muscle memory or b) exploiting braindead AI enemies

Of course a vast deep learning neural network with superhuman abilities will beat humans in a competitive environment. And while that is technically "single-player" because it is against an "AI," it basically just a competitive multiplayer game played against superhuman players. I do think it would be interesting to see how AI play certain competitive games, and I would think it would give us a lot of insight into the game's meta and optimal strategy.

This is my thread and is not a bait thread. Unless you want to read a giant fucking brick wall of text, "reddit spacing" is necessary dumbfuck.

Yes that's exactly my point though user, shmups have an incredibly vast RELEVANT possibility space to the point where even tiny differences in inputs change the resulting score because of various systems like proximity based scoring/damage and so on, and on top of that they have overlapping positioning based attacks that create chaos based on your inputs AND rng, no two runs are really the same and the minimal differences become significant when you introduce scoring into the mix. Most smhups are garbage that I agree with but there are tons of gems, try out Guwange and actually learn the scoring instead of disregarding it, these systems aren't just side additions they're the main meat of the games. Also unlike Meat Boy shmups have a lot of transferable skills.

There are times where the hardest difficulty makes the game worse. In Halo you don't feel victorious, you're just relieved because you don't have to play in the most shitty way possible anymore.

>cant critique BotW unless you collect all 900 Korok seeds in addition to literally everything else on master mode
Yeah you can fuck right off with that idea you memefrog faggot.

not from reddit came to Yea Forums 10 years ago when I was 15

why is organizing your thoughts into separate bullet points considered reddit

people posted like this all the time 10 years ago

maybe you just got here

>try out Guwange
Looks exactly like Jamestown which I found boring as hell (and controlled like dogshit). The only shmups I have ever enjoyed was Sine Mora and Housemarque stuff.

And dodging obstacles in a 2D platformer is just as "transferable" as dodging bullets in a 2D bullet hell. They are just both boring as hell.

>game is shit
>I'll force myself to play shit
get a load of this fucking boomer

nope Yea Forums when I was 15, that's 10 years ago now

There is nothing wrong with going to reddit. I have been going to Yea Forums, reddit, and resetera/GAF for over 6 years now.

It's not anything like Jamestown beyond sharing the same genre. The game's gimmick is the shiki which you manually control by holding down the shoot button instead of tapping it, bullets it hovers over get slowed down and enemies get killed creating a bullet cancelling aura, you use the shiki to group up a ton of bullets and then convert them to coins with the aura. The game also has a lot of RNG on top of that, with some infamous instances like the cat spider boss milk which is a mix of randomized movement, bullet patterns, enemy movement and constant multi-tasking.

Yeah, it outright says that it is unfair.

>The game's gimmick is the shiki which you manually control by holding down the shoot button instead of tapping it, bullets it hovers over get slowed down and enemies get killed creating a bullet cancelling aura, you use the shiki to group up a ton of bullets and then convert them to coins with the aura. The game also has a lot of RNG on top of that, with some infamous instances like the cat spider boss milk which is a mix of randomized movement, bullet patterns, enemy movement and constant multi-tasking.
That's exactly like Jamestown you fucking retard, and it sounds boring as shit. Just play Sine Mora or a Housemarque game and realize how boring and derivative the bullet hell genre is.

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That's NOTHING like Jamestown, the fuck are you talking about? Jamestown is just collect coins shoot special weapon, it doesn't give you full control over another ship with its own unique properties, it has no bullet stalling, it doesn't let you manually "paint the screen" to cancel bullets, it has no boss milks comparable to cat spider. Come on stop this dumb shit, PLAY THE GAME first. Only Housemarque game I've played is Nex Machina and it's really good for a run n gun but the scoring is really simple and binary compared to Guwange or just about any other notable shmup.

Please dont tell me you just quen auto attacked the enemies like in the lower difficulty

Ok, so you have never played Jamestown, you can just say that. And what's so funny is that despite the "binary" score system and hundreds of thousands of players, not a single run in the entire game has yet to be fully optimized. And all Housemarque would need to do to have you creaming over the "deep, intricate, dynamic" score system is add a graze system. That's it, it's now incredibly complex and we can all spend thousands of hours perfecting our runs!

It's actually hilarious the level of delusion and sunk costs that you drones suffer from.

Don't forget Axii. Quen for single enemies, axii for mobs, and you just hack away like a braindead zombie for minutes on end. Oh, but you can harvest some herbs and make a little bomb or a little potion!! So deep!

I have, the game is literally fill up meter by collecting coins and cancel shit around you, usually at VERY obvious points with lots of bullets. Guwange isn't like that AT ALL, there's no discrete points where you'll be using your shiki, it's not limited by any resource, you have constant access to it and you constantly have to use it for those sweet puntos.

Also what's this dumb shit you're saying? Binary and discrete doesn't mean easy, simplistic rhythm game combos are as binary as they come yet they aren't easy. The main thing is that Nex Machina scoring system is about preventing losses (chain break) and finding secrets, Guwange has a game long chain as well that you can't break but it has A LOT more depth on top of that which allows you to get some extra points from literally every enemy in the game.

You shit talk grazing but why? On its own the mechanic has a lot of potential for depth, and in games like Psyvariar that depth is explored to a decent degree. When you have a shitton of bullets all going in their own directions and a capped speed, an optimal route becomes very hard to work because of so many conflicting viable options, out which creates game depth.

i only save that effort for good games

I already said earlier:
>I don't think a shmup is a good example though unless it is well-made with interesting enemy layouts, boss patterns, variety of weapons, that is unique and randomized to some degree with some form of tracking attacks that requires strategy and planning as well as quick reactions and pattern recognition. (Also I would add upgrade system, multiple weapons with distinct advantages, optional objectives, etc.)

I don't inherently think every shmup is dogshit but I have no interest in playing a CAVE sweatshop game that they shat out in 6 months just because it has some "shiki" gimmick just so it's not a literal carbon copy of every other bullet hell on the market.

Again, you can choose to be an autist and play this derivative drivel for hundreds of hours on end, that's your choice and we don't care. But we don't want to play it, we don't care about your score, we don't care about the little gimmick that totally differentiates itself from all the other bullet hells just like it, and we don't care about how your muscle memory improved after the thousand hour mark.

Ironic that someone who goes on about fully exploring what a game has to offer before criticizing it completely fucking dismisses a one of a kind shmup based off a fucking youtube video and the dev that made it (as if CAVE is just Ikeda and his code monkeys). What an insufferable, arrogant turbofaggot, truly a great example of the dunning kruger effect at work.

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>YouTube game critic
>"it's just not fun!"

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>game forces you to beat it on normal before you get the ultimate difficulty
>difficulty doesn't change the game, just fucks with stats

That's a no from me.

Obviously it has to be within reason, I played Super Meat Boy for about 100 hours or so and 100%'d and got all ironmans so I can say that it is a very poorly designed game, but it just really becomes exhausting at a point, as even that was really excessive and there was no satisfaction. It's more about at least experiencing everything it has to offer or seeing the new prospective or gameplay change from increased difficulty. With something that is designed to be a time sink where you just recite the pattern for hundreds of hours, a small sample of that is plenty.

Also, I have mastered many shmups, just obviously not at the level of people who have spent 10-50x as long as me playing. And I'm not going to sink hundreds of hours many times over into each bullet hell clone pumped out just because each one has a gimmick and a reskin.

I would be near the end of the Dunning Kruger Effect since I have extensive experience within the field. I have actually felt this effect, where you just feel a bit hopeless; there is just literally not enough fucking hours in the day to dedicate. You spend time to be good at x, and then you spend all your time on x, but the guy who spent all his time on y is better than you at y. Some of these people just dedicate every fucking waking hour to this shit, but I only do it as a hobby and I like to have my life be balanced in other respects.

Again, I just want to reiterate, that you only view bullet hells as deep or strategic because they rely on the crutch of insane difficulty and muscle memory to make up for their shallow, derivative, and simplistic gameplay. Pretty much any game can not only be made much more "complex" but well beyond the realms of human ability just through a few simple changes or alterations to mechanics or addition of a very gradient scoring system. But vast majority of people don't find that fucking enjoyable or satisfying, it's just grating as hell and makes you reconsider your life.