Here me out. I'm tired of retreading the same Z story over and over, why don't they make a DB game that picks up from Battle of the Gods to Broly. The character selection would be more balanced and you could play as Krillin, Tien, Roshi, 18, and 17 post ToP. Gohan and Piccolo wouldn't suck because they'd have higher stats too. That would also mean less Goku clones to worry about. The game would be great because it reanimates the entirety of Super in 4K graphics and would be much more enjoyable playing through it. Post-game would include Z, GT, and Movie unlockables. Maybe it could work as an RPG like DBZ:Kakarot or Budokai Tenkaichi with Super characters only.
Super sucked because of the animation. But it's on par with Z otherwise.
Xavier Lewis
On par with a children's cartoon maybe.
Super was trash that tried to appeal to kids and kids only, never did it have the sense of dreadfulness and anxiety that Dragon Ball Z, aimed at a more mature audience, had
Oliver Richardson
>On par with a children's cartoon maybe
So... Z?
Logan Sanchez
I'd rather play Z for the 47839292864695092827th time instead of the objectively shit story that Super had.
Joseph Mitchell
Dragon Ball has always been intended for children.
Liam Turner
>DBZ >anxiety
Nigger, what? Even when I was watching it for the first time as a 10 year old I knew damn well Goku was just going to scream for 3 episodes while he chats with the villain until he eventually wins.
The cell saga is literally the only good arc in DBZ because it removed tardku from the picture.
Brayden Bell
Why no dragonball game?
Jackson Parker
a dbs game doesn't exist because they know it'd be shit
Brody Rogers
>posting this on OLD GOOD NEW BAD: the board
kek
Yea Forums just wants to eat up DBZ until they die, let them be
That being said, I think a ToP brawler game would be fun
Nathan Smith
Why don't they just make Budokai 4 with characters from DB to Super. Oh wait, that would too good and fun for fans
Joseph Myers
I really wish that DB games wouldn't rehash shit we've already seen before I mean, you've got one of the most insane media franchises out there, and you just lazily retell the same story? Give me something new, even if it's non-canon
because when you take the nostalgia goggles off, you realize the budokai games were actually really really bad
Eli Bennett
Thank God you're not producing games then.
Gabriel Sanchez
Who do you think Shonen Jump targets?
Aaron Sanchez
Dragon Ball Z is good because of a variety of reasons that, to an outsider, might just so happen to look like the result of me watching it at a young and impressionable age as a member of the show's primary demographic.
Dragon Ball Super, a show I watched as an adult, is bad for reasons that are most definitely linked to the show and have nothing to do with the fact that I'm now in my later 20s/early 30s and I'm watching a show that has always and will always be intended for children.
Yeah god forbid we get anything other than the frieza saga for the 17th time (i'm actually probably underestimating the figure)
You're right though. Modern kike publishers know nostalgia makes money, so they'll keep pumping out nostalgiabait and you'll eat it up like a good nostalgiacuck
The problem with Super wasn't the new characters. A lot of them were actually pretty interesting and had fun powers. The problem was the terrible pacing due to Toei being Toei and wanting to milk it as much as they can.
Using DBS characters in a video game would be good. They're literally the only good aspect of DBS.
Gabriel Bell
based retard
Caleb Brown
>man copes with the fact that his manchild hobbies are for children.txt
Aiden Wright
You're really defending your shit game idea that's never going to get made, user
Jackson Parker
go emulate it yourself, retard
you'll get bored within an hour due to how basic and boring the combat is
>Super was trash that tried to appeal to kids and kids only, never did it have the sense of dreadfulness and anxiety that Dragon Ball Z, aimed at a more mature audience, had Big redpill here. Alot of people only seem to remember the memes about screaming and "muh power levels". Even OG dragonball was darker then super.
I'm sorry I called your game idea shit user, had no idea it would make you seethe this hard
Jose Hill
What's the most GREEN HILL ZONE/ KANTO part about Dragon Ball?
Mine is Saiyan Saga and the entirety of Namek. Fuck Namek, I never want to see that planet again.
Evan Morris
you can tell this nostalgiacuck already pre-ordered that DBZ Kakarot garbage lmao
MEMBER GOKU??
Ryder Smith
I know how the manga/ show goes, though. It would be better if they just made up a new plot for the games. Preferably without the Heroes/Xenoverse "Look at Goku SSJ x100 his number is big that means he's strong!" shit.
DBZ works because for the most part its one connected story. Buu Saga had a time skip but it felt like a natural progression as opposed to Super in which arcs just happen with no real connection to one another. The best you could say is BoG connects to U6 vs U7 and that sort of connects to the ToP. But for the most part things feel too separated.
Luis Fisher
>darker then DBS must mean its like hxh and deathnote! based retard.
Evan Butler
If you haven't watched DBS Broly yet, go pirate it now. It's really good. Make sure to watch it with noise cancelling headphones or a subwoofer, too. The sound effects are excellent.
I played it like 10 years ago, sorry you think gameplay cant advance in 10 years. Just go slurp up the latest boring DBZ shitty hack game instead
Jonathan Jones
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the part of super that isn’t a retread of the movies bookended by tournaments?
That’s pretty lame. I skipped straight to the black saga which seems pretty cool.
Also, for britfags that are interested, the kids’ channel POP is showing super everyday at 7 pm.
Lincoln Long
>4k graphics Pff. Funny OP
Josiah Brown
This.
Dbs Broly is the best thing to come out of Dragonball since the original series and I don't even like Broly as a character.
Aiden Evans
What game are you playing?
Let me guess, the only available pirated file online has a screamer, right?
Carter Brown
>It's really good Stop lying to them
Brody Garcia
Character Selection: Goku, SSG, SSB(KK?), Ultra Instinct (Omen, MUI) Gohan, Ultimate Gohan Piccolo (post ToP) Krillin (post ToP) 100x Solar Flare 18 (post ToP) 17 (FighterZ version) Nu Broly, SS, Full Power Everyone on Universe 6 Team Everyone on Universe 11 Important ToP fighters Goku Black, SS Rose Zamasu, Fused Zamasu, Monster Zamasu Frieza, Golden Frieza Champa Beerus Belmod The Angels
Anyone else I'm missing cause Super has a huge roster.
If you have a PS4 you can watch past episodes on demand for free also through POP, only place I've found in the UK that does it.
Isaac Howard
Name one thing bad about it
Jackson Sanchez
The begining half where 90% of it was clearly cut.
Ian Howard
>never did it have the sense of dreadfulness and anxiety that Dragon Ball Z, aimed at a more mature audience, had >Z >Aimed at a more mature audience Should I tell him?
Anyway, I wanted a game where the ToP was the main attraction and have a battle royale of two or so teams. youtube.com/watch?v=8RTAkwhDP-4 Think this but with Super characters.
It's about as good as any well animated DB product once you get passed the past stuff. Honestly wish they spent more time on that and actually tried to have it matter with the plot beyond being an explanation for Broly's existence.
Jordan Adams
Best part is, nobody knew that was his wish. when "I, Burack-sama" knew that was his wish Black killed Red. Still, makes sense, dbs were a mystical thing to make any wish and that's the only thing technology, money, power couldnt get. Because world domination for him was already at hand. Now dbs are more "revive balls", something angels can do like nothing.
Jaxson Russell
>90% of it was clearly cut. Source? What did he mean by this?
Daniel Sullivan
>destroys a whole planet and watches the planet's powerlevel fade to zero
That scene was dark as fuck. Don't forget about when Broly's dad murdered that guy and the time where Broly was about to tear some drunk person apart.
Carter Lewis
Much better than the cringe shit in DBS were Freezie pop wanted to wish to be taller, WHEN HE HAS A FUCKING FORM THAT MAKES HIM 9 FEET TALL, AND HE NEVER GAVE A SHIT ABOUT HEIGHT IN THE PAST AND MADE HIS LIFES MISSION IMMORTALITY.
I'd rather have it work more 2 v 2 than a Battle Royale, else ToP would finish after 10 rounds. Also ToP isn't long enough to be a full game on it's own. And it only has one stage, so that'd be boring as hell.
Samuel Powell
He literally got his brains blown off. None of the clows in Super had a violent death because it would scare the children watching it.
Robert Rivera
Angel's can also rewind time and Gods of Destruction can kill immortal people, but I don't see you complaining about that.
Isaiah Gonzalez
Zamasu got cut in half and them deleted
Ethan Miller
Well of course you're not going to use just the ToP ring. I mean in the sense that you'd use its rules for a lot of other settings and locales. >2v2 You mean the same boring ass system every Dragon Ball game uses?
Brody Rivera
It's called Character Growth, something good cartoons and anime have.
Frieza became more chill and knew wishing for immortality would just be like he's in Hell because he'd still lose forever to Goku. He'd rather manipulate the saiyans than to fight them on his own. No way in hell he's gonna be stronger than Broly or any fusion.
Kayden Evans
They should make a 3D fighter with full environment destruction.
Could that be possible on next gen tech?
Joseph Torres
It was a joke, retard. It plays off of Bulma wanting the dballs for basically the same thing.
Zachary Brooks
I like xenoverse 2 and play the co op missions often.
There I said it.
Jackson Davis
Dragon Ball games are a clusterfuck when you have more than 5 players on the field. A Battle royale of 10 players at once is gonna be obnoxious since everyone fires mile-wide lasers and nobody knows what's going on. Battle Royales ain't for fighting game, but shooters, racers, or arcade puzzle.
Brayden Parker
>when Gogeta and Broly's fight spills into another dimension and Gogeta rapidly punches Broly while upside-down. >mfw *thudthudthudthudhthudhthud*
Beerus deleted Zamasu Everyone including their universes in ToP was being killed one by one until there were two left. So characters had to fight desperately to stay alive. ZENO SAMA destroys planets with people on it for fun.
Fused Zamasu killing soldiers who stepped outside with Divine Justice lightning. Then the entire world died except for Trunks and Mai. And nobody could bring back their entire timeline and the trillions of people who got fucked.
Luke Sanders
There was more content about the saiyans, like Raditz and Prince Vegeta, but it was cut out because things were getting out of hands.
Yeah, he was smart with that.
I did when that happened. Or how Goku can hakai in the manga, or healing powers with Trunks My point there is that the dbs became revive balls, but now that we knew angels can also do that, the balls are getting even more useless. Goku can get hakai'd or die and Whis has 2 options to fix the problem
Tenkaichi was doing that little by little. And in a game called DBZ the Legend/Legends(Saturn/PSX) you could also destroy trees, rocks, mountains while fighting. Is the same shit like outfit getting ripped little by little in the Tenkaichi games, but then developers write that off because that's too much work
Justin Collins
>Trying new things is bad This is why Dragon Ball games after 2007 have stagnated.
Hold the fuck up. Freeza lasted an hour against Broly while Goku and Vegeta were working out the fusion dance. That's longer than the whole tournament of power. Goku and Vegeta only lasted a few minutes against Broly by themselves.
Jayden Harris
Fun? Zenos are literally mindless 5yo kids that dont know what the fuck they are doing. They dont know what is wrong or right, they think as kids because they are kids. Which is why Grand Priest feels like a babysitter
Ryan James
>There was more content about the saiyans And we already know about it. The movie is about Broly, not 'member Kakarot Kanto panadering. >the balls are getting even more useless The Dragon Balls grant ANY wish. Revives, time, and healing is overused. The switch bodies with Goku wish was genius. There's still more ways for villains to use it.
>Dragon Ball games after 2007 have stagnated Cope. Xenoverse 2 and FighterZ has sold more than the Budokai games in their prime. It's actually gaining more followers than ever. Even Heroes sells gangbusters and it's mostly in Japan.
Lucas Allen
> No way in hell he's gonna be stronger than Broly or any fusion. >the same freeza that went from Namek saga level to SSB level from training in 4 months it'll happen eventually
>Give me something new, even if it's non-canon FighterZ, Fusions, Heroes, and even kinda sorta Xenoverse 1 and 2 all have their own stories.
It's actually been a while since we've had DBZ games focus purely on rehashing the original story.
Julian Adams
>Xenoverse 2 and FighterZ has sold more than the Budokai games in their prime I said nothing about sales, only that the games have stagnated. Back then you had two-three equivalents of those games instead of just one.
Frieza has been shown to have ridiculous potential, it's no stretch of the imagination that he's gotten considerably stronger since ToP.
Matthew Jones
>the problem was the terrible pacing The problem aside from the consistently terrible animation was that every arc pre-Tournament of Power was flat out god awful and gave me a new appreciation for the Buu-arc, which upon a rewatch is fucking 10/10 compared to Super.
Jonathan Myers
Frieza's race of ice demons are all about speed and defense. Their top powerful forms drain as much stamina as SS3 on the regular and that makes them useless against overpowered Saiyans.
I could give you Frieza surviving as bits of meat chunks. Or Cooler surviving the blast into the sun. But that's all they are, defense. They are hard to kill.
Cooper Hill
>New games bad. Old is good t. retard
Oliver Nguyen
Trunks murdered frieza with no effort.
Hudson Hall
yo, this fan fiction shit. I love it. its the worst thing ive ever seen.
Colton Kelly
>Frieza's race of ice demons are all about speed and defense. Their top powerful forms drain as much stamina as SS3 on the regular basis hat makes them useless against overpowered Saiyans.
>murdering a handicapped traumatized Frieza Great job. Very impressive.
Ethan Campbell
Freiza's Race is nothing, considering they don't really exist outside of expanded universe stuff. Racial bonuses outside of "Saiyans get stronger when they fight" Most likely don't come into play anymore, Toriyama isn't that smart to do shit like that. The stupid fuck actually thinks he's funny.
We dont even know what training is for Freeza. How things are going, with ToP and Broly's movie, Freeza's training could be becoming a punching bag and getting stronger and more resistent to attacks
Jeremiah Stewart
Nice cope but even mecha frieza was stronger than he was on namek.
Daniel Evans
Can't argue when Xenoverse 1 provided it.
Thomas Jackson
>Reading comprehension FighterZ and Xenoverse should be the norm, not the exception.
Full Power Frieza dropped stamina like a fucking rock. SS1 Goku mocked him about it. years later... Golden Frieza dropped stamina like a fucking rock. SSB Goku still mocked him about it.
All power and no stamina, but high defense to take shit from Broly and Jiren.
Jonathan Hernandez
Japanese children were more mature back then.
Dominic Cruz
>Freeza's training could be becoming a punching bag and getting stronger and more resistent to attacks Again, that's your headcanon
Jace White
Piccolo beating up goku was more violent then anything Beerus or Zamasu did. Ironically as the threats got bigger the action and tension got worst, with goku not giving a shit about anything and especially the dragon balls and the blue guy's time reversal power as as back ups for when things go south. youtube.com/watch?v=2u4ajNgiOmY
Headcanon confirmed. Watch his brief 5 minute scene when he came back. He didn't do jackshit to anyone and got shat himself when Trunks transformed. Where did you get that idea from?
We literally see it in the manga. He trains like Rocky Balboa.
Aiden Watson
Why not make a game where you can do anything you want to change the story? You could do the standard beats but you could also fuck off and find side quests or do something totally different. Like if I want to grind Yamcha to the point where he can kick Vegeta's ass, I should be allowed to do that.
Ian Brown
So Xenoblade Chronicles but with Dragon Ball characters? You mean actually beating opponents in story mode and still losing in the next cutscene to them?
Daniel Rodriguez
you realize the punching shit is the exact same stuff they did in Z right?
Aiden Cooper
>More nostalgia pander For fucks sake this is the shit that a lot of people hate with >Pokemon >Yu-Gi-Oh! >Sonic Dipshits why does there need to be yet another fucking game of the same fucking story of the Saiyan arc to presumably Namek?!?!
Nathan Davis
>Yea Forums at least he fucking tries with the discussion. Yea Forums DB talk is just "CHADREN CHADREN CHADREN CHADREN KEKREN CHADLY CHADLY" They're not even fucking human anymore.
Because millennial can't cope with something new and hate anything Gen Z likes. Especially when you point out flaws in Z like Buu saga and how Toriyama lost quality right in the middle of Namek.
Robert Jones
Fuck all these Saiyan fags, when is my man Piccolo going to get a day in the spotlight?
Adam Sanders
Just remake the Legacy of Goku games
Isaac King
Isn't DBZ:Kakarot the same thing?
Carson King
Man, I really liked the Cell Saga right before he got 17. Nice fights, Cell was actually monstrous, and Piccolo was the strongest fighter they had for like nine episodes.
Thomas Edwards
dragon ball super ToP battle royale, no flying, 10x10 km map.
John Bennett
>tfw Piccolo got one of the best fights in DBZ and it was one of the shortest
What a shame Early Cell was the last time he was truly useful
Camden Nelson
>It was a joke, retard A fucking bad joke. Freeza is not a joke character. He's the most powerful and evil piece of shit in the universe. That was out of character and dumb.
Christopher Hall
Remember when we all hoped that the universal tournament and the ToP would let a bunch of the NotGoku's have some room to shine, but then most of them just did fuck all. And now Piccolo is just a nanny.
Brody Kelly
Super's fights are the exaggeration of the worst parts of Z. I mean I still enjoyed the show but I can still admit its just not the same quality as Z. Because the fights lasted a little longer they could do more then just punch like that. Even something as simple as how they flew around in the air was given more thought. Some of TOP fights were ok and Goku/trunks vs 2 zamaus was nice but for the most part DBS really lacked alot of weight Z had. I guess its because it didn't have toriyama to draft it all. youtube.com/watch?v=RCN2YOgPCYE youtube.com/watch?v=LliGkyoEdwY youtube.com/watch?v=4168CwVgYV0 youtube.com/watch?v=ihxV4tKBLWA and then there this mess of flashy colors youtube.com/watch?v=pDW5pWkvBno. Im so glad that wasn't the final battle of the tournament.
Michael Bailey
I think we can all agree Piccolo during ToP was very useful. I don't want to keep playing Android saga Piccolo forever.
Dylan Moore
>the most powerful and evil piece of shit in the universe. The android called. That title was taken away years ago. Then Beerus took it and never gave it back.
Nathaniel Edwards
>That final kamehameha synchronizing with the music >Broly coming back to his senses seconds before his imminent death
Fuck that, give me a game full of what if stories. Give me a saga where Vegeta kills Frieza. Give me a saga where Gohan keeps fighting and shit after the Cell saga. Give me a SSJ4 VS Ultra Instinct fight.
Evan Green
>super saiyan 4 vs ultra instinct
I think you mean super saiyan 4 vs super saiyan god
Parker Watson
I wish Xenoverse/2 lived up to it's potential. But the new story barely changed much events and the execution was lacking. Also the time patroller story was an asspull. >hurr fight all the bad guys plus movie villains but they are super evil and recolored now.
Thomas Peterson
>out of character yeah >dumb eh it was just one weird joke. I like how he doesn't care about immortality since he thinks it'll bore him now, thought it was an interesting change.
Beerus isn't evil he's just a petty jerk.
Matthew Brooks
>Opportunity to have characters with actual stat allocation and techniques without powerlevel autism steamrollng anything compelling or even slightly complicated, lean a bit back into the martial arts aspect and a wide range of fighters from across the multiverse >Nah were gonna go straight back to BIG BEAM and HARD PUNCH after 2 episodes LMAO
He's lawful evil. And still a jerk. Frieza doesn't destroy planets unless he's desperate. Beerus will do it for pudding and because he has a licence for it. Plus unlike Frieza, he doesn't care about killing villains like Zamasu or Broly unless they hit him first.
Noah Rivera
Dragon Ball FighterZ does/did this
Connor White
>we all hoped no. We hoped for Gohan, Piccolo, Buu, and Krillin to make gains instead of focusing on the "Goku and Vegeta Show" for 100 episodes.
Eli Rogers
GT > Super This is undisputable
Caleb Rogers
I'd like to see some of the smarter fighting that I guess the comics says happens. Like the switching to Blue and back to increase their attacking and defensive power with less stamina drain. That'd be neat to see.
Josiah Martinez
>He's lawful evil. And still a jerk It's his fucking job to destroy shit tier planets, he's not evil at all.
Logan Williams
>We hoped for Gohan, Piccolo, Buu, and Krillin to make gains Are they not the NotGokus?
Wouldn't Beerus be Chaotic Neutral? He does what he wants, for the reasons he wants, and dislikes being told what to do.
Charles Barnes
And it was fucking terrible.
Owen Rogers
>It's his fucking job Hence, lawful >destroy shit tier planets the dude destroys planets accidently when he sneezes and threatens to destroy unless they bring some fucking dessert. If that isn't evil, then you're insane.
I could argue that Innocent Buu isn't evil because he's a fucking child, but that isn't right either.
Andrew Hernandez
What are you talking about? DB threads are the best threads on Yea Forums.
Xavier Barnes
Not exactly, because Beerus still has to follow the rules of being a GoD. He's just very very lazy about it. Which bite him the ass when the ToP happened since he didn't take good care of his universe
Blake Reed
What redpill? Dragon Ball has never been for adults. Hell, Toriyama has implied several times that he thinks adults who watch Dragon Ball are all manchildren.
>bring that Zalama plot that is the creator of the Super DBs >DBs are tiny fractions of the Super DBS >namekians and that Zalama person are related >think they will make some ritual with a Super God Namek for Piccolo to be as strong as the top saiyans >get jack shit
Fucking hell. Super was so bad that Piccolo could only spam the same moves over and over, same goes for Tenshinhan's tribeam because "what is dodonpa? and solar's flare is krillin's lol" At least in games Piccolo is one of t he best characters
Imperfect Cell was too scary for a kids show... fuck adults that think that way, and fuck what they did with Piccolo
Kami and Nail's moment was great and that video with the Mafuba, but I am still disappointed with how Piccolo is. At least they made sure Goku and Vegeta respect his advices after U6 vs 7 because until that saga even Goku joked with Piccolo's power against fucking Frost
Cameron Gray
le boomieozoomiedoomie hehe
Nolan Davis
Fat Buu is true or chaotic neutral. He's too retarded to be evil and he just does whatever Mr. Satan or Babidi tells him to do.
Colton Young
>and threatens to destroy unless they bring some fucking dessert. I mean considering he's SUPPOSED to just blow shit planets up on the spot, him giving planets a chance to bring him some fresh dessert in exchange from not wiping them out is kinda being merciful.
He's supposed to wipe out shit tier planets that are a threat to the universe (although he does a shit job at it). I wouldn't say that's being exactly evil
Joseph Sanders
manga was just more violent in general, it became cleaner over time. Not saying it was better but like compare hokuto ken or otokojoku's violence to mha and black clover. It makes sense Super has to tone down the violence for modern standards.
Cameron Bennett
>dreadfulness and anxiety wat Dragon Ball Z had so little stakes that it's not even funny. No one ever thought that anyone would die or be injured permanently.
Michael Hill
>the same moves over and over That's a huge problem in general. For some reason, they keep churning out new forms, but very few moves.
Logan Torres
>Super has to tone down the violence for modern standards. One Piece airs around the same timeslot and it doesn't do this. Why Super got sanitized is anyone's guess, but One Piece does not have that restriction to an extent.
Zachary Nelson
Pretty much. The actual fans realized that DB went to shit with Buu and moved on.
No, people watched this as a kid, and then stopped giving a fuck because it's a shitty cartoon.
Aiden Russell
>Didn't kill Frieza >Murdered the saiyans who were slaves in their own planet >Went after weakling Earth looking for the Saiyan God >Stomped King Vegeta, slapped Bulma, and threatens her to keep making sweets forever or their world perishes. >Does nothing about Goky Black or Broly unless because he's too slothful to time travel. Retard. That's evil.
Benjamin Wright
Toriyama is also a writer that admitted on his dr. slump chapter notes he couldn't write a proper romance subplot for his main characters because girl stuff is icky blugh, so he has no right to call others manchildren
Josiah Fisher
This is what I hate about super. Goku always seemed to think 2 steps ahead but now he's turned into a fucking WAKU WAKU repeater.
Vegeta killing villains left and right on Namek and Buu destroying entire cities was terrifying enough. Cell and Frieza killing people without a care was scary too.
Joseph Morris
>and then stopped giving a fuck because it's a shitty cartoon Yes, It went to shit the moment the Cell arc ended. It was pretty good before.
No, he just doesn't want to write girly shit. His thing is making money off autistic spics, amerimutts and gooks, the only people who eat up this garbage.
Asher Gomez
he's also romantically married for 2 decades, has had a stable multi-million dollar job for 3 decades, and has several children while managing to keep everything about his life private, so yeah he has the right to call people who read his shit he made a long time ago manchildren
Elijah Cooper
Toriyama is a literal autist and admitted he can't write female characters or romance. He's good at drawing sexy females though. To be honest waifu shit ruined animes so kill yourself.
What you're seeing is Goku after developing his powers and strength beyond what he was during the Namek arc with a slither of his actual personality from the manga.
Nolan Taylor
The stakes have always been the same lmao >villain shows up >gonna kill the heroes or destroy massive population of people whether it be a planet a galaxy a universe whatever get off your power trip Z is no better than Super fuck off with this shit. Super just looks like shit that's the only difference. Other than that nothing has changed whatsoever.
Ethan Mitchell
Why did they turned Goku into Luffy i'll never understand.
Benjamin Turner
It wasn't terrifying at all though because everyone vegeta killed was a total asshole and we knew that anyone who died on namek or from Buu would just get revived by the dragon balls. Namek in it's entirety is a good example of how little stakes the show had since so many people survived by the skin of their teeth in situations where they should have died. Doesn't matter how strong your opponent is. Just hold on for a bit and you'll get saved or healed. Or if you're really unlucky, we got the dragon ball safety net.
Thomas Martin
>so kill yourself Why? I'm not calling for waifuism, i'm just saying this shit is for children. The only people who deny it are autists.
Evan Miller
thats because your looking at it at surface level and with hindsight. Everything was relatively fine until King piccolo started murdering everyone and even killed the dragon preventing the use of dragon balls. And then Nappa fucking killed everyone except Krillin and Gohan, and then in the frieza saga krillin and gohan had to run away from everyone since even a low tier minion could kill them. It was full of dread and anxiety, toriyama is unironically a great author for half the series. The problem with Super and late Z is that the repetitiveness of relying on dragonballs and new power ups made it predictable.
Its why I didnt feel concerned with nubroly showed up, I knew there was a a new form ready to beat him and it just happened to be SSGSS fusion. Even when og broly had a shittier story there was a sense of dread then because the peak of the time was only Super Saiyan 1.
Charles Gomez
Not for unbiased people. The only people who can unironically say this are people who know of dbz's reputation or have already seen it.
Seeing dbz without knowing anything about it, ANY person would say that the cell saga, after cell blows up goku and king kai and revives back on earth at max power, was the most dread-filled moment. Gohan was literally accepting his and the death of everyone on earth, with goku gone, the guy who is literally the main character, who was gonna save earth?
Elijah Thompson
El marcianito
Lincoln Powell
I want Battle of Z2.
Nicholas Martin
Supersonic Warriors had the best what ifs Please just make a third game
Connor Bailey
>>Didn't kill Frieza He slept through the entirety of fucking Z you braindead autist, plus I JUST said he doesn't do a good job as a GoD as is. >>Murdered the saiyans who were slaves in their own planet Freeza did it dumbass >>Went after weakling Earth looking for the Saiyan God That's not evil >>Stomped King Vegeta, slapped Bulma, and threatens her to keep making sweets forever or their world perishes King Veggie was a prick who cares. He apologized for slapping Bulma but she was the one who initiated a fight with a guy who can sneeze away players so...? Also no, Bulma doesn't HAVE to keep making sweets for Beerus. She only does that if she needs/wants something from him or for Goku and Vegeta to train with him. Beerus is practically a nanny now, he was seen taking care of Bulla in the Broly movie. >>Does nothing about Goky Black or Broly unless because he's too slothful to time travel. You fucking idiot, time travel is condemned in the DB universe they practically shitted on Trunks for time traveling. Beerus didn't wan't mess with time travel out of fear of getting erased by Zeno, but he DID help erase present Zamasu.
He's not evil at all "retard"
Joseph Martinez
When did they add in DBS Broly characters? My pirated copy doesn't have them.
Jaxson Thompson
Super's story is trash, not a single arc felt like an adventure or drawn out conflict. ToP was just fucking stupid.
Thomas Gomez
I didnt like raging blast series. Wasn't as fun as budokai tenkaichi or xenoverse.
There probably wouldn't be enough content to just base it around Super. You'd have to include Z characters and plots.
Xavier Walker
Goku Black arc was close to being amazing, but it was too short and the ending was lame.
Dominic Carter
Didn't Beerus tell Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta. I don't think he really cares unless he gets Zamasu tier danger.
In any case, wouldn't he be chaotic neutral? He doesn't even really follow the guidelines for being GoD and does whatever the fuck he wants.
Nathaniel Sanders
Seconding this, but obviously some nostalgiafag that only played raging blast will deny this
Hunter Rogers
When DB aired I thought Roshi, Krillin, C-hitzu, all other fighters were dead for good in King Piccolo's arc. When in ZPiccolo died I thought everyone was gone for good, I mean, watching everyone die like that the first time without knowing what was coming it was a fucking ride of emotions as a kid. And all of this because those arcs seemed that could end either there and take a huge turn and end in next arc. Namek saga was full of strategy and stakes, until Vegeta dies and gets back and I knew it wouldnt end there, if Vegeta stayed dead I would think that show could end there with Goku being dead and Gohan & Piccolo being the survivors Oh yeah, and who didnt thought that when Kami and Piccolo becomes one again, the balls werent gone for good? Who would have thought that Goku would just teleport to new namek and get a fucking namekian to earth and make new dbs like some daily routine?
But stakes were always there with villains, K.Buu was destroying planets like nothing. Super seemed to have that with Black because gods were dead in the future, but they had to fuck things up in the end and bring Zeno to deal with mentally chalenged Zamasu
Daniel Baker
>Goku always seemed to think 2 steps ahead but now he's turned into a fucking WAKU WAKU repeater. >Gave freeza his energy only for freeza to turn around and try to kill him >gives cell a senzu bean >indirectly caused the events of majority of the buu saga. Had he beaten Fat Buu in his SS3 form (which he later admitted he could) the rest of the events that followed (including the Earth blowing up) would never have happened. yeah no, Zku was retarded
Thomas Reyes
>Dragonball game >Goku can choose between Bulma or Chichi
Isaac Turner
People are already having anxienty thinking about how people got revived 5 years later in Avengers Endgame. Do you think living in a Dragon Ball world would be fun as a human? Villains coming out of the woodworks every year trying to blow up Earth and there's even futures where Earth has been wrecked before.
Even with Dragon Balls reviving, you could only hope Goku and the others win or else everyone dies. ToP was universe level terrifying and they said repeatedly that the universes must not know about the tournament because everyone would riot and panic.
Also add Buu's human extinction attack to the list. That scene still gives me chills.
Joseph Martinez
People only like the Goku Black arc for how overly flamboyant Goku Black was. I don't think anyone even liked the arc itself.
Brandon Wood
yeah he's probably chaotic neutral but definitely not lawful evil like the other retarded user stated
Ethan Martin
It's like the pacing of Z was too slow so they overcompensated by making it ADHD tier. Nothing ever has time to stew in Super which leads to nothing ever having a satisfying payoff.
Jace Rivera
It really was a shock at the time, seeing all those main characters die. I cant imagine how shocking it must've been for japanese kids who were following the series since the actual beginning.
Robert Moore
The nubroly movie had the audience concerned for broly himself, not anyone else. Even if they couldn't beat broly, whis or beerus would have put him down. The simple act of broly recoiling in fear is probably one of the most impactful and emotional scenes in the entire series.
Alexander Stewart
>Goku showing mercy, so he's retarded. He was fucking massacring him. It's more out of pity. I don't see your point here.
>Cell a senzu bean I disagree. He knew Gohan was much much more stronger than cell. It didn't matter if cell was fully healed. He also wanted to give Gohan a challenge. Again, it didn't even matter anyway.
>Buu saga Gotenks could've fucked buu up. But they jobbed. Was it honestly Goku's fault for putting faith in his son and trunks when he did the same thing with Gohan and succeeded?
Aiden Sanchez
The destructo discs moves from Krillin and Goku were cool though.
Japan rikes it. It sells.
Had very good ones, but Tenkaichi 2 and 3 had a share of good ones. Like the Raditz one, the Zarbon one, Spike devil man one The one that takes the cake is that SNES Gokuden Z game. That shit had a bunch of what-if endings scenarios, some pretty crazy like Gohan joining forces with the saiyans destroying the Earth because Piccolo failed to kill Raditz and killed Goku instead which made Gohan mad at Piccolo
Isaiah Jones
>Emperor Pilaf to ToP as main game >DBS Broly + Shadow Dragon Saga as post game >Significantly alter some of the movies and filler acs for sidequests >DLC are what-ifs and Moro ultra hard boss >Call it "Dragon Ball: The Legend of Goku" for maximum onions/nostalgia bucks
>That one what if story where Piccolo resurrected his "Dad" and fused with him putting on Super Buu's level >All of Krillin's story which is pretty much him beating up everyone despite being a human >Even learned Kaioken
Jackson Martin
And the other is actually good
Adam Murphy
I really liked the Broly movie, but did anyone else think the choreography was a tad weak? Goku fought more like a brawler than a martial artist.
>He slept through the entirety of fucking Z Wrong, nigga. He told Frieza to kill Planet Vegeta because he was too lazy himself. And Frieza already ruled the universe at that time. He did nothing to stop him. >looks for saiyan god. let me finish...and then kill him and the planet he lives on. >King Vegeta is a prick Frieza was far worse. Vegeta was an ant compared to him. Moving goalposts again. >apologized for slapping Bulma Woman beaters aren't good guys, retard. She didn't even touch him and she couldn't do shit if she tried. Just walk away. >Bulma doesn't HAVE to keep making sweets for Beerus. Lol, no. Beerus will destroy Earth if he doesn't get his junk food. He ALWAYS has his way, or else... >DID help erase present Zamasu. So lawful evil then, got it. Reminder, Future Zamasu killed the Beerus of his time too and that was payback for Beerus.
Yeah, very lawful and evil, you retard.
Nathan Watson
That's the thing though, people are only saying DB has no stakes and doesn't have any dreadfilling moments not as a matter of fact, but in retrospect. As they say, hindsight is 20/20
When you watch something like DBZ with external factors meant to spoil and negatively influence your experience, then of course you going to trivialize every component and find it to be bland
It's nearly impossible in these days to watch DB without prior knowledge of it, so that really hurts the viewing process
my guess is that OP is adapting from the manga, while DBS is original so they execs wanted to appeal to as many people possible hence making it less violent. Either that or just incompetence. Technically Zeno destroying universes is more violent then anything but I think its the way its conveyed that's more important like piccolo beating up Goku or Frieza torturing Vegeta. Goku was a retard in Z but not the extent that he was in super.
>no Dragon Ball Z game where either Goku stays kill and can't be revived with Earth's Dragon Balls and it's up to the Humans (and Piccolo) to protect Earth
They could go to Namek to revive Goku or something, but Goku would always be too weak to do anything useful so the Humans and Piccolo would be the ones to learn the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb from King Kai.
It hurts to love the Humans in Dragon Ball and watch them be forever irrelevant.
Mason Brooks
>Could've used them to make himself more or less powerful than Zeno >Could've used them to make sure he was in hakaiable, especially if GoDs and Zeno was known a problem >Could've cut the middle man, and just wished all of the humans to be dead Nah, he was stupid
Julian Fisher
Oh definitely. The super broly definitely felt like a gigantic scuffle rather than anything overly cool like that, also broly lacked more character than the original (((Not saying super broly is bad, just the chilai and other shit around him suck)))
Noah Johnson
>obviously some nostalgiafag that only played raging blast will deny this dont think those exist. I think most people can agree Raging blast wasnt as fun as BT, and XV with character creation brought people back into dragon ball gaming.
Didnt goku win that fight against tien? And thats ginyu down there thats cheating. Plus Raditz is used twice and Goku was holding back against vegeta in the buu saga. Other wise yeah he got his ass kicked alot in dragonball and early Z.
And to keep this vidya related I'll say that BT3 has the worst music out of the BT games. BT2 had the best.
Eli Rodriguez
>my guess is that OP is adapting from the manga, while DBS is original so they execs wanted to appeal to as many people possible hence making it less violent. That is...a good point.
Dylan Miller
>Didnt goku win that fight against tien? He officially lost but he should've won.
Thomas Collins
>It didn't matter if cell was fully healed And then Goku dies by Cell. Great plan, retard.
Colton Butler
For me it was a shock, since I didnt know any spoilers until the end of namek saga. In my country Krillin's death got censored, so we saw him in the floor but we didnt knew what happened, only that Goku was mad and leaves. Then I see Roshi getting killed like that.. Saiyan Saga was weird to see Goku die right there. Then later Yamcha is killed by some weird green thing and then Chaotzu and Tenshinhan die for nothing against Nappa. And then Piccolo sacrifices like that, which was weird but fucking great send-off and the original Z version nailed that scene with that ost. This is why the saiyan saga was one of the best shit I saw, I never got these many feels like that and it was a ride for how short that part is Then at the end of Namek saga I get this youtube.com/watch?v=8RTAkwhDP-4 and then I spoiled myself up for all of Z
I guess japan was worse since it was weekly reading the manga or watching the anime. I was only watching the anime but 5 or 6 episodes per week, so things were a fucking rollercoaster of emotions
Kayden Garcia
t.Pedro
Aaron Ross
Before DBS Broly I would agree with you, but LSSJ is basically just a great apr infused with SSJ1, so SSJ4 would be more or less as powerful than SSJB.
Luke Bell
>It really was a shock at the time, seeing all those main characters die. Uh, no it wasn't. In fact, being a kid in the 2000s watching DBZ while it was airing it actually fucked up my perception of life and death and made me think characters in anime/movies will just return later on through some dues ex machina shit because DBZ literally revives everyone all the time. The Internet wasn't really used as a spoiler machine for anime until the whole Naruto craze of the mid-2000s, so people genuinely didn't know and just assumed Goku, Vegeta, etc. was going to come back the next arc in which... they did.
"FINISH HIM NOW GOHAN!" "NO DAD, HE NEEDS TO SUFFER." Maybe if a certain someone followed the plan....
Brandon Hughes
One problem. Like all dragon balls, they can't exceed the power of their own creator. Being stronger was already denied back in the Saiyan Saga. Why didn't he wish for Buu's human extinction attack?
Wyatt Perry
Fact. Goku was more than enough to take care of Cell on his own.
Zachary Bennett
At least in the anime, it's downright stated that the only wish that Super Shenron can't make is to wish away Zeno, and even then that's a definite maybe. Shenron also can't kill anyone stronger than his creator, so if Zeno is the only one that's debatable on weather or not he can be wished away, then Zamasu could wish himself to be at least the second strongest person in the multiverse.
Jose Nguyen
If Cell didn't take the senzu bean, Goku could've just killed him with the Warp Kamaehameha again. He could barely regenerate fast enough without stamina. Giving the task to Jobhan was a mistake because Vegeta helped that kill too.
Parker Martin
Not really.
Benjamin Perry
>Even with Dragon Balls reviving, you could only hope Goku and the others win or else everyone dies. The problem for me in super is that goku didnt take anything seriously so the tension usually never rose. Even with the threat of the universe being destroyed Goku was mostly just "WAKU WAKU STRONG GUYS" atleast in the cell saga when he acted like this everything went to shit cause of his cockiness and he was showing legitimate regret when the cell jr.s started beating everyone and when Gohan didnt finish off cell.
Jace Rogers
Goku was worn out. He used most of his energy on that warp Kamehameha. Cell wouldn't fall for it a second time.
Again, that's not an argument. He literally told Gohan to finish cell before he pulled some weird shit.
Xavier Johnson
I never got people liked Legacy of Goku 2 so much. Playing it twice there was nothing memorable about it except the stupid momma egg mission with vegeta and the fact the game doesn't tell you that you have to level up gohan 30-40 levels just to beat the final boss.
Buu's Fury was objectively a better game.
James James
>Goku was worn out >Eats the senzu bean >10x Warp Kamehameha GG NO RE, WAKU WAKU Cell sama.
Brody Richardson
they have a bunch of universes. Make a game/story about goku visting those places helping out the pride troopers or the magical girls
Colton Rodriguez
>10x warp Kamehameha! It wouldn't work on Cell a second time you retard.
Jose Perry
Super ironically has an inverse problem where the stakes are so absurdly high that the good guys can't lose. The only arc that didn't have this problem was the Goku Black arc where Trunks actually did lose. No one can seriously believes Goku could lose if all of U7 is wiped out. Either he would win like always or they cop out on the universe erasure.
Hudson Rogers
Cell literally had no energy left to even give a fair fight to Gohan. Cell couldn't do shit.
Tyler Sanders
Buu's Fury is more polished, but I like the Android saga more. I also don't get why they removed the charged attacks in Buu's Fury.
Jack Powell
>He did nothing to stop him. Because he was fucking asleep throughout Z, they state this shit in Super you speedwatching autist. >kill saiyan god and his planet You really are a speedwatcher, he just wanted to be entertained and then he would dip (which he did exactly that in the movie) >muh freeza You’re the one moving goalposts here, you went from King Vegeta to freeza. >he’s a woman beater! She didn’t touch him! Stop with the hyperbolic statements he isn’t a woman beater he slapped her once and that was only in retaliation because Bulma was the one who hit him first. Rewatch the movie jackass >beerus will destroy Earth if he doesn’t get his junk food No. Bulma only gives him junk if she needs/wants something from Beerus and for training with Goku and Vegeta this is shown multiple times in the show. Beerus never threatens to blow up the Earth outside of BoG >zamasu Your entire argument there makes no sense. But I love how you conveniently left out your “he’s too much of a sloth to time travel” part of the argument. >payback for Beerus It was never payback, Present Beerus is fucking unaware of what happened in the Future except the fact that it’s a fucking wasteland. He only killed P Zamasu because Goku and co asked him
It’s clear you didn’t watch the fucking show
Zachary Watson
I came off playing LoG2 straight from 1 and it felt like such a massive step for "Goku struggles with wildlife and gets stuck in Ancient Namek mazes" Buu's fury is better paced and all. But I still have a soft spot for 2.
Daniel Johnson
>buu saga >putting faith into a 7 and 8 yr old kid >when you could’ve easily ended the saga right at fat buu >instead you WAKU WAKU >a couple of hours later your retarded decision of not finishing fbuu off in SS3 eventually leads to the Earth being destroyed along with gohan >people still say Zku is better than superku
Christopher Stewart
It is a children's cartoon though.
Joseph White
>Because he was fucking asleep Stopped reading right there. He was awake long enough to tell Frieza to eradicate the saiyan race. Frieza already ruled the universe.
Retard and illiterate. And Beerus is still lawful evil, no denying that from your last post. Now fuck off.
Sebastian Thomas
>most friends adore Super for some reason >me and a couple others simply don't find it very interesting, if not downright questionable in content and execution alike Somehow I miss the days when even the defenders of GT could admit it was shit and everyone just argued about whether it was canon or not. Not this fresh batch of hell.
>you have to level up gohan 30-40 levels just to beat the final boss. Kinda of ironic you point this out since Gohan going SSJ2 was in LoG2 was one of the most satisfying moments I felt playing a DBZ game.
Just cope or get off the waku waku train. Buu arc was the worst part of the entire series.
Nathan Robinson
I hate Buu Saga, so don't point that at me.
Tyler Gutierrez
If you survived that slogfest, then Super will look decent in comparison. At least the arcs has small amounts of filler and doesn't drag too long.
Lincoln Rodriguez
>Stopped reading right there. He was awake long enough to tell Frieza to eradicate the saiyan race. Frieza already ruled the universe. yet, despite this, in the show they stated that he slept through the entirety of Z and only had awoken in BoG. Why are you ignoring facts faggot? >Retard and illiterate. >this is coming from the guy that said Beerus was too lazy to time travel despite this never being the case >this is coming from the guy that said Beeus only killed Zamasu for “payback” despite this never being the case >he can’t bring up a solid response to my other arguments >”f-fuck o-off!” Looks like I’ve won this argument you dumb bitch
Look, I get that people have gripes with Super, but there are a lot of things to consider here. >American children generally started with the Dragon Ball Z anime, which was almost as butchered as 4Kids One Piece with the dialogue being cartoonified, blood being removed, scenes and entire episodes being cut, the entire OST being replaced, and episodes coming out years after they originally aired in Japan >The anime for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z has far different pacing than the manga did, and Super does not follow a manga but a story outline from Toriyama >Super's production was hellish because it was rushed out and it took until the Broly movie for it to become comfortable >The original anime wasn't animated by Toei staff, but rather by smaller animation studios that Toei would contract. A fair amount of these staff members would join Toei when they developed an in-house staff >You were a child when you first saw Dragon Ball and it seems better in comparison, but if you were to watch it for the first time now, the cracks would begin to show
Adrian Nelson
The first two arcs are fuckawful retellings of movies, even my friends advise folks to skip them. The Future Trunks arc is back-and-forth shit that wastes a lot of time doing little of anything besides getting down to the mystery of who Zamasu is, and once that's solved it still meanders onwards. And the Tournament of Power has a handful of hype moments but has its head up its own ass about how it wants to be the ultimate battle but 90% of the roster are retarded jobbers, on top of character focus episodes making it blatantly obvious that someone's about to be eliminated very soon.
Say what you will about Z and nostalgiafags, I can laugh at Z's plot holes and drama but it kept me entertained. Super just bores or irritates me, because everyone's beyond fucktarded until the problem needs to be resolved in an instant.
Brandon Jackson
>dog posting >still no argument Go back your containment thread on Yea Forums
Blake Stewart
I personally would have preferred seeing Broly grow closer to his father and more stuff with Vegeta in the past including interactions with his father.
Samuel Nguyen
You first, discord tranny retard.
Thomas Russell
>gets utterly BTFO in an argument >resorting to adhom You make this shit too easy. Now please, go back
Juan Davis
>dog posting >didnt post schlop schlop shame on you
The thing about viewers watching Super is that they know it's mediocre. But it's fun laughing at it with friends and weed. It was a comfy ride, but you're not a child anymore to enjoy it.
Aiden Sanders
The 2-3 high-budget episodes and the broly movie had great animation.
Eli Cook
>Can't cope with facts >Leave this board, p-please I'm mad at you. This is entertaining. Continue ranting about your retarded headcanon. I'm gonna eat a snack while I wait.
Adrian Flores
But you still realise they were the ones I was talking about.
Sebastian Mitchell
>my headcanon >posted walls of text saying Beerus should’ve time travelled That’s a kek from me user
Julian Powell
Super is shit.
Connor Cruz
>Beerus should've time traveled >that's a headcanon >not a suggestion Cringe and retarded.
Zachary Brown
I can still watch DBZ Kai today and enjoy it, and not enjoy Super. It's not about censorship or about how it was as a child, because I can see the faults and the cracks, but I can still admire DB and DBZ, and still see Super for what it is: a mediocre effort fucked up by its poor production and eyebrow-raising execution, that borders on being a dumpster fire at times.
There is no real beating around the bush, no excuses, and no rationalizations about why I should or shouldn't. I simply do not.
Daniel Nelson
Not that user, but you should stop. He's baiting you and you look like a dumbass.
reminder z was made for 90's japanese teens so it was full of intense violence and funny borderline adult humor like pic related
super is a sterilized piece of glorified fanfiction made for a global progressive audience so no humor, no real violence, no blood and no stakes. just funny meme cat freeza in fairy land haha
Dragon Ball has always been in Shounen Jump. Shounen = Boys, typically from around age 8 to 14. Same magazine as One Piece, Bleach, My Hero Academia, and Naruto. Toriyama was a gag manga writer and never tried to be "edgy".
Oliver Sullivan
Shh, he's a dubfag who's trying to revise history. Z has always been for kids. Pic related was considered TV-Y7 in Japan, the same rating most edited dubs get.
This. Super went back to his comfortable side which is why he included Jaco. DBZ was never supposed to be serious and had plenty of comedy like . Times change and things get more "progressive". There's a lot of things you can't do in a kid's anime anymore, or else censorship kicks in.
Jaxon Long
GOD DAMN I'M DYING TO FIND OUT MORO'S DAMN LAST WISH. REEEEEE, WHERE'S THE LEAKS?
Jonathan Moore
the violence isn't sterilized, it just didnt have any good choreography, and somehow shittier plots then cell and buu. There was nothing to adapt from in Z, thats why everything seems stale in comparison its just doesn't have the stuff toriyama had in DB and Z. GT had the same problem.
Joshua Hall
I got your leaks right here. He wished for Super Season 2
Dragon Ball always had "shitty" (gag) plots from the beginning to now. There was no blood in Super, only coughing up spit. So it was sterilized and less violent than even GT. But you're right about adaptions. The manga should've developed first and then make Super 4 years later. Just like Attack on Titan or JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
Isn't Moro just a repeat of all the other villians that can absorb energy?
Aiden Robinson
>wojak posting right on time, Yea Forums.
Luis Davis
He's King Piccolo but with the recycled energy absorbtion gimmick the androids had that fucking buu already recycled with a cringey space power rangers plot thrown in.
Jose Sanchez
This
Juan Watson
>Dragon Ball Z, aimed at a more mature audience top kek
Andrew Allen
Designs were shit too. And the direction. And the writing. Everything was objectively shit.
goku black and zamasu was a serious thing imo but of course having to call in zeno made it less impactful, if they ended super when trunks cut zamasu in half right then and there I would've been completely fine with it
It really is. In fact the Broly movie could have been identical with them powering up to SSJ2/3 respectively, the god forms were pointless.
Blake Bennett
>Toriyama was a gag manga writer and never tried to be "edgy". Bullshit. Just look at the original DB manga stuff and besides the fanservice, deaths tended to be more explicit. An energy drain in the anime was crunching a throat like a grape in the manga. A significant wound in the anime was a lot gorier in the manga, albeit we're not talking Berserk or anything here. Violence and death had its meaning and brutality, and anyone can point towards the Spopovitch vs. Videl scene for that. Meanwhile Super can't even muster that, the closest it got was turning a blackened future Bulma into salsa, Zamasu getting shining sparkle cuttered in half, and Namekian arms being torn off.
Are we being raided by those Brolyfags from Yea Forums. Don't worry, CHADLY will tear them a new asshole. This a SUPER thread. Get the fuck off Yea Forums and go back to /x/ to know PURE STRENGTH.
reminder that by super mangaverse logic, gohan failed to kill these little shits, they regenerated and android 17 tamed them for sparring and island defense partners
Kevin Carter
he focused less on gags and more on story and adventure after the first tournament arc. There were here every now and then but it was obvious that toriyama was trying to be more serious with his story especially with King Piccolo and the saiyans. The first half of Z was honestly genius in writing and pacing. But yeah cell saga showed he was getting tired of it, and i'm glad buu had gags again.
As for adaptions I dont think it would've worked either unless it was toriyama himself drafting it. The super manga we have now is unremarkable in its paneling and drawings, though maybe its because the anime came first so it makes it redundant.
anime is the canon that supersedes the movies, with the Broly movie going from that. manga is just sort of a tie-in thing that exists to make money at this point.
Eli Reed
I cant believe how badly they dropped the ball with him. Even when zamasu was a clusterfuck atleast they tried with his backstory.
that's what happens when Toriyama based DB off of martial arts and kung fu flicks, and then by the time Namek rolls around for the Z part of things those influences gradually phased out for grandiose and sped-up fights that lost a lot of that element to them. the animation studio gradually cheaping out with time didn't help, though rarely did Z cheap out quite like Super pretty much always did.
if they didnt introduce power levels things would have been better and then the floating rocks started happening like holy shit they went way overboard with it that i just wish it never existed to begin with it's just so ridiculous seeing floating rocks during any kind of powerup
The cell senzu bean thing was so that Gohan would have to unlock SSJ2 to win, I thought.
Wyatt Perez
I liked Super but it doesn't have moments that I want to revisit in games. Battle of Gods and Fukkatsu no F was already done twice with the movie and Super. Besides that there's the awful tournament arc 1, Goku Black arc, and the tournament arc 2. Rather just revisit Z again.
Connor Watson
The power levels weren't necessarily the problem so much as it was the speeds and the attacks. Everyone could toss out a ki blast or fire off a beam, everyone could match or surpass eachother in speed which gave the excuse of speed lines and frame repeats. Every new villain could turn an entire fight into "he's too fast, I can't see him at all" until someone could for the slower bits. These things could all have been retained despite power levels, and when Super animation does put in effort you can still see hints of that, but ultimately it was all tossed aside for everyone being able to zanzoken and afterimage liberally, and superspeed encounters and liberal ki techniques just creating the ultimate animation shortcut excuses.
Julian Carter
Even without the Senzu Cell would have killed them all. He wasn't even going all out in his fight with Goku.
Noah Torres
Based and rockhard.
Luis Clark
Hey I'm not too bummed about seeing Legacy of Goku 1, 2 and 3 in 3D
Kayden Taylor
They should just make more classic dragonball game, classic dragonball is the best it ever was and will be.
Camden Gonzalez
More than the animation, user. The visual storytelling in Super is the absolute bottom of the barrel compared to how clean the original run of DB was. The exceptions being a few episode of the Goku Black and ToP arcs.
Henry Morris
man, how weak they were back in the day
Kevin Gutierrez
Headcanon. Cell was near death and Gohan was gonna be an uneven fight for him. Also, Goku could've just ate it and finish him off anyway.
Jonathan Hall
Someone did their own what-if comic about if Gohan died versus Cell when Goku put him in. And how Goku is the one that went apeshit instead.
Jace Gray
>ironically when everyone got stronger the fights became less intense Ive seen people claim this for the later part of Z and while I agree the earlier fights were more visceral this fight with Buu was done very well. tyoutube.com/watch?v=ihxV4tKBLWA >the weight and animation of each hit >goku actually getting serious and mad >the different facial expressions buu and goku make >how fight dynamically changes from punching, to ki blasts directly at high speeds, swatting and dodging ki blasts, the underground kick spam The part at 1:50 is so nice to look at it. Flying in the air might seem boring for some people but when toriyama wanted to he could make it really fucking good. Pic related is another example of high speed flights used nicely.
>Cell was near death He wasn't. At all. Goku gave him a senzu took advantage of Cell's arrogance by telling him Gohan had a hidden power. He wasn't stupid.
Caleb Nguyen
>sprite artist girl that worked on LoGII was most cute woman I'd ever seen I swear, if the planets aligned I'd marry that woman.
Ryder Rodriguez
That's why I think a Super game could fix that mistake. The anime is garbage, but the manga and upcoming games would save it for me.
buus fury is a big step down imo, it's just so retardedly easy they could have made the fights a little tougher, especially the janemba and super buu fights
Austin Lee
Oh shut the fuck up, you're one of these absolutist faggots who thinks mostly bad = all bad. Buu saga had plenty of highlights, it just jumped the shark after Gohan. SSJ3 is infinitely better than SSJ but blue.
Carter Bailey
don't ever get your hopes up for something like that. as DBZ Kakarot's showing, any Bandai Namco-licensed anime game would rather leave all of the presentation to the combat and just have characters cycle generic emote animations in everything otherwise
Angel Perry
>japanese teens Kids. It was always a kids series.
Gabriel Bennett
I get that Goku could've lost if he continued fighting Cell, but he wasn't going all out either. Taking the senzu bean for himself guarantees a win if happened.
Parker Jones
Adding to that, even Buu, the worst saga in Z, was better than the entirety of Super. Super had no redeeming qualities.
Dylan Price
>The anime is garbage The manga is garbage too, the guy they got to copy Toriyama's work is copying his worst looking era, while also doing it much worse.
not that user but buu is horrible for many reasons
the plot of androids is copy pasted >mysterious man warns of future danger and asks the heroes for help >old man is going to activate his monster(s) >they try to stop him and his monster(s) rise from the blast explosion that was expected to kill them >they get rekt by monsters and flee >monsters kill old man >monster absorbs things and gains power >monster reverts back to weaker form and tries to blow up the planet
Buu was only good while he was fat. He just became pink cell
Josiah Ortiz
Let's hope Uub stays forgotten, because he will just become another sideshow jobber like Gohan if he came back.
Wyatt Barnes
Uub was also never technically canon, and, even if he was, at this point retconned.
Camden Green
>SSJ You mean SS. What the fuck is SSJ? >SS3 was better than SSB Wrong. SS3 was a waste of time like Super Saiyan Third Grade. Absolutely useless even when he could've killed Fat Buu at the time. Nobody is gonna miss that shitty transformation. I never said Super was good, didn't I? I said Buu's arc having SS3 being Goku's strongest transformation was a mistake. I'd rather replace that with SSB.
But it should've ended at the Cell arc. Ultimate Gohan getting his potential unlocked twice and jobbing, Gotenks jobbing, SS3 jobbing, and Buu was a shit candy eating faggot. Fuck the Buu arc.
Isaac Young
I hate that the Buu arc made everyone useless and gave way to the "Goku and Vegeta show". Where's Piccolo, Krillin, or the rest of the Z fighters. Sitting out on the sidelines while everybody fails to do anything and lets the villain get stronger. Boring as fuck.
Brody Green
>Absolutely useless even when he could've killed Fat Buu at the time You stupid fucking spic. I'm not talking about your power level bullshit, I'm saying they're conceptually the fucking same. Superpowered form 1, 2 and 3. Their power level is completely fucking arbitrary. The only difference is whether you prefer Goku + more hair or Goku + blue hair, which is nitpicking.
Thank God DBS Broly had awesome fights. It was embarrassing how Miss Kobayashi's Maid Dragon had a better DBZ fight than DBS did.
Noah Watson
>conceptually the fucking same Transformations are used to gain the advantage over the opponent. SS3 failed to do shit against Buu. SSB was a huge improvement because it functions like SS2 and gives kai control. That is completely different.
Michael Martinez
it always shocks the zoomer super kiddies when you posts manga pages
>literal cartoon violence wow so mature DBZ is for kids and teens. the entire shonen jump magazine is. it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise
Jackson Lopez
I bet you're like 26.
Dominic Gonzalez
well manga is usualy aimed at edgy nip teens.
Owen Nelson
It is also a lazy design. Should have just went with SS4 as SSG and then the SS4 gogeta colors for SSGSS. That would have been a lot cooler. And it would have worked for their fusion later on vs Broly. Dunno why they tossed out a design made by toriyama himself.
Wyatt Smith
Still can't explain and Japs have bigger balls than the US in cartoons back then. Dragon Ball will always be for kids and will always set it's standards to match current year programming.
Ethan Cox
So you're saying that every animation is aimed at kids. >Simple violence is edgy Nice buzzwords, but that's not the case.
Liam Evans
It doesn't fucking matter. Again, if Super didn't happen and it was 2 and 3 instead of red and blue, nothing would change besides visuals. All that form control and power level shit is fucking arbitrary, they do whatever suits the plot. Frieza being alive would be another plot-convenient footnote like in Resurrection F, with nothing from Super being relevant.
Jesus fuck this is your brain on Super.
Adam Reyes
Nah manga is extremely popular in japan because you can read it on the train to work or in public without looking like an imbecile. That shit is marketed towards adults just as much as kids.
Christopher Reed
>DBZ is for kids and teens. the entire shonen jump magazine is. >So you're saying that every animation is aimed at kids. nice reading comprehension
Alexander Russell
Wrong.
Aiden White
>whatever suits the plot >babbling about Frieza Dude, what the fuck? Nobody was talking about that. You're brain melted from the hours you wasted watching the Buu saga and calling it good. Super is shit. Buu saga is shit. Cope harder.
Brayden Wood
>I hate that the Buu arc made everyone useless and gave way to the "Goku and Vegeta show" I think it's fine when you don't take in to account the sequels beyond DBZ, which take away how much of a "last victory" the finale was supposed to be for Goku and Vegeta. They both are dead and come back for a victory lap, that should have been it for them.
It is stated in data books that the forms do have actual power increases. It may not factor in as far as who wins goes, but they still have numbers attached. Toriyama just decided that power levels can actually end up spoiling outcomes, so to hell with writing based on the power levels. Most forms still have modifiers. SS1 is x50, SS2 is x100, and SS3 is x400. They may not mean anything but those do exist in databooks.
Jose Myers
Yeah its really only the Goku and Vegeta show because super exists.
Matthew Green
>that jump from x100 to x400 things got so fucking retarded
>being this fucking braindead Read the original response again you illiterate fucking faggot The point is Broly movie would be the same without the god forms. Everything it needed conceptually was already in Z, besides Frieza being alive, which is trivial. So the only good DB media since Z doesn't hinge on Super, therefore Super has no reason to exist. Amazing that I have to break this down for your shit-riddled spic brain.
Landon Phillips
IT DOESN'T. FUCKING. MATTER. IDIOT.
If Goku needed to be 400x stronger in SSJ3 then he would be. Power levels and form control are arbitrary. In fact you don't even need that 400x shit because the Broly fight was on the same visual scale as everything post-Frieza. Only legitimate autists care about these literally pointless numbers.
Kayden Robinson
I just want a DBS game with my boy Zamasu as the villain
>he point is Broly movie would be the same without the god forms Then go watch the OG Broly movie and shut the fuck up.
>SS3 Goku vs Nu Broly >gets killed before Broly even transforms Fucking dumbass so autistic that you want nu Broly to be a Z movie and you have 3 other ones before it.
SS3 will forever be dogshit and the God forms improved on everything, including point.
>SS3 Goku vs Nu Broly >gets killed before Broly even transforms You are LITERALLY retarded. How you can completely misunderstand every simple point I made is confounding. This, anons, is the single braincell IQ of a Super fan.
It's not that the form was shit it's that goku wasn't used to it, and he never got used to it. Especially after getting God and Blue. He'll never use it again since it won't end up better. Maybe if none of Super happened it would have.
I said it didn't matter. Fucking read retard. I'm just saying, it may not matter, but it's there to let you know "he he's this much stronger in this form" it's more a way to show how formidable the opponent is than to objectively state a power level. Tone your autism down.
Carter Sullivan
Play Xenoverse 2
Adam Ross
I recognize your post user. I'm not that guy, but I'm glad you stayed mad for me. How entertaining.
All 12 GoDs got to have some fighting in both the anime and manga, so the rest of them would do, especially Quitela since he's Beerus' rival. You also forgot Roshi (Full Power), Tien (Four Witches), Yamcha (Baseball), Arale, Shisami, Tagoma (Ginyu), Jaco, Merus and Moro (Full Power).
If it was Z then there wouldn't be a broly movie. He's dead in Z. Super is a literal reboot but even still if they did a Z Broly reboot it would likely have been "Broly too strong, SS3 no good, must fuse" its not a power level thing, its a sequence of events that just happen because cool.
Owen Cook
My point is that Super didn't add anything meaningful, and power level shit doesn't change that. The point is that Broly starts weaker than the saiyans, then gradually gets stronger and forces them to go through forms 1 > 2 > 3 > fusion. This would be the same shit with Z forms. The only difference is visual preference.
Jason Fisher
>he's dead in Z Z movies weren't canon, but otherwise yeah that about sums it up
Lincoln Cooper
I mean if they were to make another z broly movie, they'd use the z movie canon and he'd be like undead broly.
Daniel Phillips
They're the first DLC for the game, added 16 new cards. Hopefully we get another update soon...
I get it. They don't, but you can't act like the numbers don't exist. People will always do that shit. All we need to know is that higher form, higher strength. Numbers are irrelevant. Toriyama stopped that shit cause it got annoying.
Kevin Rivera
>octopus head cell wat
Camden Rivera
from
Angel Garcia
Japanese children aren't coddled as hard as western ones
Isaiah Nelson
Even though he should be technically stronger than Freiza by now, even without a number being attached to it.
Jonathan Lopez
I can't act like the numbers don't exist when retards like exist, who literally can't conceptualize anything outside of these numbers. Just another way that Super magnified the worst parts of DB.
I'm all for dudes yelling and changing hair color/style and getting stronger for no reason, and I don't disparage power scaling but only after the fact. I don't mind hypothetical power-scaling but only when it's really far-fetched and clearly never going to happen.
Cooper Williams
If he's got that advanced blue and is actually stronger than Goku using Blue with a x20 Kaioken then he's over 20 timws stronger than Blue Goku. He's stronger than Freiza but only because of a last minute asspull form at the end of the ToP
Hudson Perry
That's Sealas, he's the main villain from SDBH World Mission and was designed by Toyble.
Is he some sort of weird ass freiza race or a demon race?
Jace Harris
And the guy I replied to is still seething. I wonder why he's calling everyone retards when I stopped shitposting hours ago. I'm gonna grab more snacks while he tries to educate himself.
Didn't that get retconned again in the Super Broly movie where it went back to being Freiza did just because again?
Dylan Reyes
Don't know what race he is, but we do know he was the first Time Patroller. Chronoa wouldn't let him save a kid from Kid Buu, so he quit the TP. Can't remember if the game explains it, but judging by the emblem on his armor, seemed he joined the Galactic Patrol, probably to spite Chronoa. In World Mission, he wants to rewrite all of time and space so that evil doesn't exist, which makes him go stoic-crazy. He eventually fuses with a robot he created to become pic related.
Whenever someone with energy manipulation shows up, why don't the hero's just stop using beam attacks and punch the fucker to death?
Kevin Cruz
Because the Android saga had bad writing and Moros absorbs energy just by being on the same planet.
Jose Morales
Well, Freeza had legitimate reasons for doing it of his own accord, but it's not like Beerus couldn't have also told him to do it and this was highly convenient for Freeza because he was going to do it anyway.
Jose Robinson
I would assume they can manipulate and reduce any energy stored in the body as well so they get weakened. After all Babidi was able to steal energy directly from the body. I imagine an energy manipulator can fuck with the energy in their body as well.
Jacob Foster
Do you think for Super season 2 down the road will they animate Moros or will they skip him, is he a "filler" villain?
Nathaniel Sullivan
So then, it doesn't matter anyway. Freiza was going to. Beerus didn't need to be put in there to tell him to. So. It's an unnecessary layer. It makes more sense that Freiza just hates Saiyans so much it drove him to genocide.
Ryan Hall
cherrypicking killed your argument
Ayden Wright
I mean he looks like one. It also just came off UI and Jiren so I feel they'll tone down the next villain. Maybe the one after will be something.
Yeah. He just retreaded Namek down to the wishes and powerups and stuff. Galactic Patrol was the only thing good about it, but it was really boring.
Henry Sullivan
Adding to that, I guess the Moro arc could be done in 10 episodes, to give the storyboarders more time to write the next arc. If the U6 upcoming arc is true.
Carter Howard
Xicior
Matthew Gonzalez
>Toyo's shortest arc yet He's a filler villain
Juan Garcia
Toyble didn't design Xicor. Not SS5 either, that was Tablos.
Chase Morales
It isn't over tho
Ryder Johnson
Super isn't coming back. They'll probably just anime Dragon Ball Heroes.
Evan Jones
So that means Fist of the North Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure are for kids too. Right? Those are shounen properties after all...
I just realized, Dimps is actually pretty close to making a SS5-looking form. And I'm not talking about Final Form Mira from XV2/Heroes. All they have to do is make either GT or Xeno Goku use Ultra Instinct while as a Super Saiyan 4. Boom, there's your shitty SS5.
>manga is overseen by some literal who >anime is overseen by Toriyama
You tell me what is canon
Josiah Wright
>dbz movie retellings >a movie now constitutes an arc
Just because you liked Zamasu/Black doesn't make it a good arc. It was a fucking slog and repeatedly going back and forth between present and future was a pain and don't get me fucking started on how much of a character assassination it was for Trunks.
When I first heard about it I hoped it was our Goku who was turned evil and the others had to beat his ass with no Goku coming to the rescue since he is the villain
also the super versions are still the most mocked dragon ball content around so I don't know why you're fighting so hard to get them on your side since they still wouldn't even count as good lol
Ayden Cruz
>manga is overseen by Toriyama's propped up corpse that Toei dug up
Goku doesn't exist in Trunks timeline either. Zamasu creates the bridge and time fuckery. It only takes a little adjustment of the existing Zamasu arc to replace Goku Black with a Goten that was stolen and raised by Zamasu. It's also a good idea because Goten actually gets to do something.
Isaac Richardson
They were always planned to be super arcs you dolt. The name DBS wasn't official yet, is all. And the most recent thing counts more anyway.
Asher Hall
They're DBS arcs.
Xavier Ross
It "removed" him as much as most of the rest of the series did. Saiyans = Waiting for dead Goku to get back Namek = Waiting for space Goku to show up Freeza = Waiting for healing tube Goku to wake up
Regardless of all that, Cell Saga is overall the worst of Z.
Kayden Phillips
>Goku doesn't exist in Trunks timeline either Except he does he's just dead which is nothing to a Supreme Kai.
>What about future developments in Dragon Ball? >To be honest, I haven’t given it any thought at all.
Charles Jones
He's dead and gone in that timeline before Trunks even gained sentience. The dballs are also gone in Trunk's timeline and so is the Supreme kai after the Zamasu from that timeline kills him. This act kills Beerus as well. Whis is wholly laissez faire about what happens.
Future Trunks knows present Goku. He doesn't know Goten. Present Trunks and Goten are good friends. Therefore it's interesting to see them be enemies in Future Trunk's timeline, even if it is a transplanted Goten. This isn't even counting how it's cooler for present Goku to fight his own son than Zamasu in his body.
Adrian Morales
Regardless, BoG and RoF are DBS.
Christopher Sanchez
Feel free to think that but they were always intended as Z movies.
he isnt trolling, hes completely right. people love a shitty character like zamasu because he was the only portion of super that came close to that feeling and theme.
Brody Jenkins
>Dragon Ball will never end >It should have ended at the Freiza saga >Even though Vegeta is a fucking awesome character Toriyama will always have him as a jobber because he doesn't like him >Piccolo is basically irrelevant now >Gohan will never exceed his father and be the protector of earth >It should have ended at the Frezia saga or the Cell saga at most Why can't people let go? Good stories have clear beginnings and ends, dragging them from the grave only hurts the quality of the series as a whole.
>implying DBS Broly wasn't the best dragon ball related animation ever.
Seriously, hope.
Brody Hughes
>Cartoon violence Explain Devilman then (also Shounen) What the hell constitutes as a mature adult manga story to you then?
Robert Williams
This is honestly what I’ve wanted in a dragon ball game for years. Something that starts with bulma shooting goku in the head and ends past z
Justin Martin
Who cares retards, they were both shit anyway.
Hudson Harris
same reason the fucking simpsons and family guy are still on the air. people gotta eat.
Nathaniel Roberts
This. The whole movie is supposed to get you to emotionally connect with Broly so you don’t want to see him die. Everyone already knows goku and vegeta will will. It’s what’ll happen to Broly that’s supposed to get you to care
Nathaniel King
>One frame versus almost an entire show worth of looking bad Super never once looked good outside of that one time they had that guy from outside the studio handle a couple episodes
It has nothing to do with having to eat it has everything to do with greed though. As long as DBZ shills exist though you'll see Dragon Ball run into the ground for the rest of eternity, I can only imagine what the fuck will happen when Toriyama dies
Gabriel Collins
>anime is created by veterans of the industry, given full creative freedom >manga is created by third rate dojin artist, toriyama has to micromanage him and correct his fuckups
Nathan Gray
You've got it backwards. The animation was mostly outsourced to the philipeans. The good episodes were from Japanese animators.
Easton Lewis
The worst part about Vegeta is that he had his cool moment of finally realizing he doesn't have to compare himself to Goku for his own self worth anymore...only to realize the only thing they know to do with him is the same old "must beat Kakarot" stuff.
Cameron Watson
As of DBS Broly, Vegeta now continues to train because he wants to kill Frieza.
Carter Adams
>Gohan will never exceed his father and be the protector of earth Worst part is the literal original plan for the Buu Saga was for Gohan to do just that. But Toriyama scrapped it because he literally got so used to writing Goku as a protagonist that he can't write anyone else as a protagonist (it has nothing to do with editors or fans, his first editor practically pleaded with him to change protagonist in the Saiyan saga and fan popularity for Gohan was quite high at the end of Cell Saga and Saiyaman saga, Toei even dedicated Opening 2 to Gohan because they were sure that Gohan would be the protagonist from now on).
In another DBZ thread I even highlighted how it would be possible for Goku and Vegeta to still play a major role whilst keeping Gohan the protagonist (having Goku and Vegeta face off Dabura in the afterlife who would be a long-term antagonist whilst Gohan faces off Buu on Earth). But Toriyama just couldn't think of that because he literally just couldn't get Goku off his mind as a protagonist. To top it off, the third editor was a literal yes man that basically just said "just do whatever you want" That's why the arc became such a mess and why Super is still the same way. Toriyama has no editors and no filters and he's too lazy to write the story to be the cool strategy fights at the end of DB and beginning of DBZ.
Toriyama truly lost his way. I think it would be best if it had just ended at Z and with GT just being a what-if sequel. At least the end of Z kept enough ambiguity that you might assume that Gohan becomes protector of the Earth. Super just downright deconfirms it.
Also I hate how Super takes place between Z and End of Z. It makes the End of Z so fucking silly once you reach it after seeing all the weird shit that Super throws at you, and it gives literally none of the events from Super any stakes because you just KNOW everyone's going to survive because End of Z is canon. There are no stakes in Super.
Wrong, because DBS a Has introduced a number of new characters who's fates are uncertain.
Isaiah Nguyen
>Has introduced a number of new characters who's fates are uncertain. Most are villains and relatively one-note characters that Toriyama forgets after a while. If they survive they'll be forgotten. If they die, they'll be mourned and that's it. That's literally Toriyama's philosophy with newly introduced characters. The only character whose fate may be interesting to see is Broly, but that's it. Most of the alternate universe characters will just either go back to their universes or die. It's just boring. None of them will join the main cast because we don't see them post-Z. DBS taking place between End of Z and Z was a fucking mistake. For Battle of Gods and Resurrection F it makes sense. Now it just doesn't.
Not even, I just think Gohan works as a successor. If Gohan didn't exist, I'd root for Goten, if Goku had no kids then Trunks or Vegeta, etc. Gohan had an unfinished arc and Piccolo had an unfinished arc and you know it. Vegeta and Goku's arcs were finished back in the Cell Saga. They both learned their lessons (although technically Maijin Vegeta KINDA worked as an extra to his arc, but eh, some might disagree). Goku's time is over and you know it. He had his enemy, he finished his arc with the Saiyans and everything Now we're just repeating everything with him, there is no stakes now because he's practically a galaxy buster. Also Pan is a shit character and fuck Panposters. She's just Videl but poorly executed. Also I am slavic
