Why do gamers have a “old good new bad” mentality?

Because games have changed and not in a good way.

Or perhaps, and just hear me out here: Old games are generally better than their newer counterparts because old games were developed with passion and love for the project. And instead of putting that love and passion into their next project, it becomes crushed under the weight of fan and publisher demands, making the individuals jaded and strung out, cutting content, features, story, etc, to meet deadlines and hopefully churn out another golden goose?

i think the "new games bad" meme has some weight, its because how games have become mass marketed and now have to appeal to a wider audience. appealing to a wider audience means that they have to dumb down certain concepts and remove depth from the game.

Video games have a proven relationship with dreams. They thrive on the saturation of memory.

Because we remember the old games that were good dumbass

So you're saying that Team Fortress Classic is a better game than Team Fortress 2?
Provide a normal answer that's made by normal people, not ones made by a gatekeeping virgin.

older games are better?

I'm saying that you can't paint everything with such broad strokes. Are some sequels better than the original? Of course. Are some sequels worse? Absolutely. However, the more apt comparison would be TF2 Paid to TF2 Free.

"Old Good, New Bad" is a thought terminating buzzphrase meant to deflect from the decreasing standards of consumers rights and the general quality of game design and the increasingly bug riddled software that we are dealt on a regular basis.

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evidently that is a normal answer considering that nu-ghostbusters and the lion king remake tanked

I'll take that as a yes, then. Please don't have sex.
Not really.

>"Provide a normal answer that's made by normal people"
>talking like this on Yea Forums

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Take it as a no. Because the original TF was a Quake mod. It wasn't until the team was hired by Valve that TF2 was born, essentially being the first real game in the series. As I said, TF2 Paid to TF2 Free is the more apt comparison, but you're an idiot, so it wouldn't matter what I said.

You are full of shit.
If you're gonna come to me and say there wasn't monetary, social, and business pressure behind every pixel in those old games you're a grade A nostalgiafaggot.
Today, we have people making games who grew up playing games, and have a genuine, lifelong attachment to vidya games like you do now.

Diminishing returns.

TF2 paid and TF2 free are the same game, though, and because the game has evolved to... barely much different than being a free game, you're suggesting that it's a bad game because hats are bad and icky, therefore, you claim that TFC is better than TF2.
Again, don't ever have sex.

Because it's true in this god awful industry.

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It's called having a different opinion. I could just as easily say you have an "old bad new good" mentality

as games have gotten more popular and populous, because they've had to appeal to a broader market, their quality has declined.

you actually hit the nail on the head and nobody cares. it’s pretty sad because the only people who suffer are real gamers from back in the day.

You're coping for possessing the perpetual mentality of a 12-year-old. :)
So said the Atari fans, the NES fans, the arcade fans, just about anyone who was a kid in the 80's has said that about anything, really.

Half of the posts here just use thought terminating buzzwords

Lazy strawman comic, typical self-fellating "commentator" comic artist.

So says the self-fellating virgin gamer who can't let his nostalgia go.

That is correct.

>no argument
I accept your concession.

>I'm so smart

>"comic bad because it hurt my feelings"
>"HA! you have no argument! B^)"
To be expected from an infantile "man" who centers his personality, if he has any, around vapid memories of his favorite childhood videogames.

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because modern game design is obsessed with streamlining everything, what else are you supposed to feel when you boot up a new game and find out that the only thing it does better than a game from 20 years ago is graphical fidelity

This hypothetical someone either doesn't exist, or is an equally vapid person who's seeking companionship with vapid manchildren for some reason.
Case in point; a literally unplayable 13-year-old game is preferred over a new game, all just because it's not the new game.

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God how fucking retarded are all the people who retweeted this shit. I doubt 90% of those people played either game

>nobody talks about old games here
LOL
I diagnose you with brainrot.

Only fedora-wearing nostalgia children born in the 90's have that mentality. Based 80's patricians and even zoomers act more mature.

Old games are better relatively to design knowledge, technology and resources they had available.

They're gamers. Of course they would behave this way.
Inclined to agree with you, strangely enough.

Because it's true. Quality of games has gone down despite being technologically more advance. And while they certainly did have shit games back then they also had arguable more higher quality releases than now.
There's lots of reasons for this but if you want a solid answer it's about loss of passion in the industry and focus on profit. And while some games do come out that are good there's also a huge gap of trash especially from bigger companies.

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there's just something wrong with their brain how can people honestly believe that a game like system shock 2 is better than a game like bioshock infinite, it completely boggles the mind

SS2 has misgivings that can be overlooked because the package as a whole is great. Bioshock Infinite offers less on almost every possible front, with the exception of graphics, on top of being fucking blatantly stripped down.

But he was right. Just look at the absolute state of Fallout 4 and Bethesda in general

Holy based

Infinite is nothing more than CoD with "lol science hard" story

You say that, but can you actually justify liking infinite over ss2?

>true, hard-bred
O-oh my

Because it applies. You cats ready for a motherfucking food analogy?

Look at how fucked the farm industry is in the US, most produce (games) are all pretty much of one or a few types (genres) that are easy to pump out and have the most use. The farmers (devs) themselves fucking hate this system (AAA titles) that they're essentially tied to in order to function. But can't move away from it because despite how bad it is for everyone its the only thing that can keep the ship floating.

In recent years there's been an emergence of people who want to farm the way things were before industry took the reigns (indie devs). There's been a lot of success for those who are good at it but a lot tend to fail to meet their markets demands... Its a good model on a small scale and can at times be scaled up effectively with a competent team... but its still pretty niche and seen as hipster though more often than not the product you buy is many times better than what you'd get if you were to buy conventional (AAA).

Its a toss up, the small scale tends to work better for the environment (gaming industry) as it adds much needed diversity, but those who are on a small scale can't really feed the people unless they make sacrifice to quality like how the large scale does.... Sure it's gross and nasty but people keep buying it.

I wouldn't really call that a food analogy, but well said user.

Except clinging to old garbage just because of nostalgia is a legitimate thing that happens. Even games that are clearly better than their predecessors get treated this way by delusional boomers.

Old people have an easier time remembering things that happened along time ago than things that happened recently.

One of the downsides of aging.

It is part this and part nostalgia. Sad really.

>typing out this much shit to say literally nothing relevant or important to the topic
Truly the king of food analogies

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So is the oldest video game the best video game?

Based and true.

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Only if it isn't right.
Not vidya's case tho.

Nigger, I’m 23, first TES game I played was Oblivion, then Skyrim, and then Morrowind.
If what you say is true, why did I like Morrowind more than Skyrim?

Considering older people show it more than younger people, 'juvenile' is not the right word to describe it.

Most "gamers" are retarded as fuck.
look at this board. Games that are trash like Morrowind are still hailed as the pineapple of games.
The game has literally the worst gameplay in an Open World RPG, its looks like dogshit and yet people claim today its the best thing that ever happened.
Or some trash game like new Vegs. Imagine believing new vegas is a good game.

Is it just me, or is the buzzword spam on Yea Forums getting worse? I remember when Yea Forums used to just call each other "autistic faggots", but these days it feels like everything on here is "CRINGE SEETHING KYS COPE BOOMER ZOOMER INCEL".

Not just you, it did get worse

This guy is right though. If you look at Daggerfall and then every Bethesda game to come after it... you see the downward slide of less and less features and more focus on eye candy. I like options, features, and freedom. If you want eye candy literally go outside lmfao gamers are such sunless hand-holdless virgins

you are just lying or have bad taste

>And while they certainly did have shit games back then they also had arguable more higher quality releases than now
Delusional. The only reason it seems that way to you is because you didn't have a Yea Forums back then to shit on everything that came out at that point.

because the market changed.
Old target demographic is correct when they say new mass market games aren't made for them anymore.

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Everyone older than me is a senile fool.
Everyone younger than me is a naive child

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New means you are closer to death

You've gotta think about it on a kind of trickle down system. The top of the scale being producers like Tyson (Bethesda, Ubisoft) who hold the lions share of the market, their products like chicken (games) are made in a fairly disgusting and not all too enjoyable environment for those that work there... and they put on a shiny fancy face with an agreeable price tag even though its really just a polished ball of shit (E3, etc.).

Read a book nigga. Do you really not see how the US food market is introducing some diversity with small scale "back to the land" farmers who sell at farmers markets or do you still rely on mommies tendies?

Where do you think we are?

Hmmm point out the nostalgia factor and like clockwork... " I am a youngster and just played Morrowind for the fist time and my eyes are opened"

Good thing lying on the internet isn't a crime.

He’s completely right tho
The only reason morrowind gets praise is because it’s babbys first rpg, and I use the term rpg loosely

HOW CAN ANYONE LIKE OLD THING WHEN NEW THING HAS A THOUSAND TIMES THE MARKETING BUDGET

DUDE DISNEY DUDE MARVEL DUDE PICKLE RICK

ITS ONLY NATURAL THAT THINGS IMPROVE OVER TIME. I READ IN ENLIGHTENMENT NOW BY STEVEN PINKER THAT EVERYTHING GETS BETTER BECAUSE THATS THE NATURE OF PROGRESS

IF YOU THINK ANYTHING THAT EXISTED IN THE YEAR 2018 IS BETTER THAN ANYTHING THAT EXISTS IN THE YEAR 2019 THEN YOU ARE SIMPLY REACTIONARY

THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED PEOPLE. PROGRESS IS LIKE TIME, IT ONLY MOVES FORWARD

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You have an inferiority complex, which explains why you adopted the delusions of virgins 10 year older than you.

New games have actual meaning and a story to tell beyond just shooting down various highly detailed enemies. It's just that gamers in general remain willfully dumb and do not want to understand that unless a game can teach you something about the world, society and yourself, it is meaningless.

That guy is right about everything though

I think the cuck spam from 5 years ago was when all this new buzzword nonsense started.

nah you just need to have sex

>The only reason morrowind gets praise is because it’s babbys first rpg, and I use the term rpg loosely
If not even Morrowind qualifies as an RPG, what does?

This. Also the majority of accusations of nostalgia faggotry are the same

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seething

>it's new therefore it's better

zzzzzz

Technically, it IS a juvenile behavior since children typically showcase it, but in this day and age, you have a very strong point.

Because it's basically a never ending story of casting that ever wider net to cast larger and larger audience in pursuit of higher profits. It means leaving the old core audience in the dust.

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Right how silly of me. Not like they have dozens of examples of this.

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i for one cannot wait to learn about how the military industrial complex is actually a force of good in the upcoming cawadooty title where you fight against america's enemies as a brave moderate rebel funded by the department of defense

cope

This game was perfectly fine and fit well into the Metroid universe, but the problem is that gamers have become too entitled, so anything below their dreamgame is relentlessly shat on. Same with Other M. You hated it because it wasn't your dreamgame, not because it had any objective faults.

He’s right

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Because they are right. New single player games dumb down gameplay and seem to put more funding on story time.

>planetscape torment
>bards tale
>fallout
>baldurs gate
>dnd pc
>daggerfall
Read op’s pic again. morrowind is a action adventure with role playing elements, just like every other “rpg” in the last 15 years

>meme anime image
I guess I expected too much

Begone, weebshit.
I *barely* remember when New Vegas was the black sheep of the Fallout franchise, and I definitely remember when TF2 fanboys kept calling Minecraft and roblox trashy kiddie games, now behold where the circlejerks have went to.

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how playable is daggerfall unity right now?

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My bad let me fix that for you.

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>Maybe NWN will be better.... *sigh* ..yeah right...
Hope he ate his hat and created a decent module

Main quest is finished iirc other than that I haven’t heard anything

old good new bad isn't a total decree, but it's often true that older releases seem to have more to them than younger ones. Maybe not the industry total, because by and large games are getting better every year no matter how much trash comes out, and there is less shovelware every year (mobage was a blessing in disguise for stealing the trash away,) and not to mention that most people don't want to return to the days where the only goals games had was high scores, but there also tends to be more games with less effort put into it in proportion to which games have more effort nowadays, which makes it really hard to enjoy things you otherwise would have in the past.

In short, older games tended to have soul, and newer ones tend to have less.

Older games have less content, less polished mechanics, generally speaking less mechanics and complexity, less quality of life features, less optiobns, worse visuals, etc

Older games ARE worse, what's going on is rather people are conflating quality with impressiveness; the consistent quality of modern games makes the good ones stand out less, and games have become more derivative due to both that + the overemphasis on safe AAA titles

With the medium being in it's infancy, the gamiung made strides with more frequency and over greater severity. Each gen saw a big leap in what was possible to do with vidya, and games with innovative mechanics, ideas, and technical feats occurred with high frequency. The bar was constantly being raised. There was also a healthy "mid tier" market of developers and titles that weren't big budget juggernauts but also not indie titles

Now, however, we have diminishing returns: We rarely see games that truly push the boundaries because the boundaries have already been punished. So huge gaming milestones like SM64, Doom, etc don't really happen anymore. Additionally, there's a way lower varience of quality: There ACTUALLY used to be a bunch of piece of crap 1/10, 2/10, 3/10, and 4/10 titles that barely functioned and had like 0 replay value, shit like shovelware was a thing, etc; wheras these days even the "worst" title from a big publisher is really only a 5/10 or 6/10, so the actually great games don't see that much better then the games around them. Lastly, due to the death of mid tier sized publishers and that segment of the market, games are basically only ever indie titles or AAA giants, and the latter have become increasing deritive and samey, so even if in a vacuum, they are 8/10 or 9/10 titles, they arent really any different from shit we've already seen and for a lot of people that's a problem

tl;dr gaming isn't worse, just stagnated

If you are interested in Daggerfall I am surprised playability is a concern.

I actually don't.
Most of the games in my top 10 are from less than 8 years ago

That just means you’re a normal human being, and a functioning member of society.

The opposite belief is much more widespread. The people who value old things are a vocal minority at most, if even that.

maybe cuz you are 20

no, normal people are capable of liking old and new things.

Because older video games are actually better.

Daggerfall is an authentic world.
Morrowind is a theme park.

So you’re saying that Mario Hotel is better than Mario Odyssey?

no, it's typically used as a response to autists who throw around their own thought-terminating cliches (i.e. "soulless," "zoomer," etc.) to dismiss any game from this decade.
let's not pretend that valid concerns over anti-consumerism and game design aren't greatly outnumbered by shitposters who just want every new game to be the next tortanic.

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Daggerfall is a piece of shit though

No, I'm saying Heroes III is better than every Heroes game released after it, with the possible exception of Tribes of the East, and even that was 12 years ago.

older games might have less content but it isnt just filler or paid dlc that costs the same amount as the game itself to play
most games that follow a series or act as a spiritual successor will always have more generalized and less complex mechanics to streamline it for normies
an older game will not look as pretty but it can look better than soulless sterile 3d games of today

Because most of the time it's true.

its funny because its so right. Morrowind was to Daggerfall what Oblivion was to Morrowind.

I don't follow, both Oblivion and Daggerfall are shit

*All npcs who can't think for themselves

It's not a hard and fast rule. Some rare new games are better but Also UFO Defense is better than XCOM/XCOM 2 and that game was released barely functional. It blows it out of the water with OpenXcom.

>decreasing standards of consumers rights and the general quality of game design and the increasingly bug riddled software
This shit has existed since the 70s, the only difference is that you don't remember the anti-consumer practices, declining game quality, and increased number of bugs from your childhood because you didn't have anything else to compare it to.

Hush, you. It has a gargantuan, randomly generated world with nearly a thousand recyclable quests, obnoxiously huge randomly-generated dungeons, and three dozen skills and hundreds of equipment in which you’ll only use three of each, so it’s literally a much better game.
But you said that old games are better than new games just for being made before the arbitrary year you have in your mind to differentiate between “new” games and “old” games.
In other words, you think Breath of the Wild is a bad game because it’s new and Bubsy 3D is a good game because it’s old.

Because cool unlockables (armor, weapons, costumes, cheats) are being cut from many modern games, and that same content is moved to dlc. You used to have to get the cool stuff by playing the game, but nowadays completing a level or dungeon will get you a reskinned common sword and 10 achievement points. And instead they'll just try to sell you the unique sword or use it as a reward for literally no lifeing the multiplayer mode for thousands of hours.

>old good new bad
That statement is objectively true in literally every single case.

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But what happens when new becomes old

Because its true.

It might, just might, have something to do with the industry growing ever greedier by the way.

>come on goy, games need to cost 100+ dollars, those poor CEOs shouldn't be forced to eat regular caviar. They need the special 10,000,000 dollar variety
>we promise this will eliminate the need for DLC and day 1 season passes and microtransactions
>oh wait, we can do that too because we love money
>BUY your game? Haha stupid goyim, you're renting it and we'll decide when you can play it
>disagree to anything in that 500 page EULA that we forced you to sign? We take away your game, no refunds
>you don't want to sign the EULA? Too bad, no refunds on game purchases either

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Daggerfall is quantity over quality.
I am not surprised to see some sperg on Yea Forums actually liking it.

to be fair morrowind is a complete different game
they don't even feel the same genre he's right about being pissed.
he expected X and got Y

stop playing western "games." problem solved.

this
most new games are made my the cuckkrew of crybully incorporated, ie massive pink haired faggots

The old boomers will typically kill themselves when they realize their life is meaningless and lame, which is just about the same time the zoomers they despise so much replace them as the new boomers, and then the kids that were born just in the past year would grow up and try out a popular new game, so they become the new zoomers.
And so the cycle continues, as evident with the Minecraft worship currently going on. Won’t be long until Fortnite becomes the new circlejerked game.

>implying eastern gatchashit is any better

Because there's been tons of shiny things without actual substance, which makes them generalize that everything is in decline (that's generally true in non graphic aspects).
Last paragraph & conclusion : agree.
1st & 2nd paragraph : Disagree : some older games are putting shame on newer games, and vice versa.

CAN'T YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT "old good/new bad" IS AS STUPID AS "new good/old bad"?!!

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There's also now the extreme reliance on "metrics" for decision-making, and since the data you have only concern what's already been done, well...

i'm talking about games here. gacha trash isn't games.

Completely agree. DLC, microtransactions, day1 patches and games as a service are the best thing ever for videogames.

The only thing juvenile is this argument you're trying to make.

yeah, he expected a RPG and got console trash

The developers and consumers think otherwise.

gacha whales' opinions don't count.

neither does the opinion of deodorant-phobic whales such as yourself.

While I agree with you on a moral level, on a technical level their opinions are allowed more weight because they're the ones spending thousands of dollars to validate these POS gacha games.

no but their money does

t. zoomer

>shitposters who just want every new game to be the next tortanic.

Wasn't the TORtanic thing around 2011 and 2012? I think a lot of people on Yea Forums now weren't even on here back then. I'm a newfag that started going on Yea Forums around that time myself.

It does. Nostalgia glasses are real. But the opposite is true for some people also new=good.
The massive increase in size for the industry damaged quality and general freedom of development for teams. That is undeniable.
It doesn't have to do with before and now, it's just happens to be that conditions changed for the worse.

We don't remember bad old games, only good ones, however we are experiencing all the bad games that are being released right now, which creates a bias.
Basically most people are sub 90iq and are unaware of their own brain's falacies.

>I personally don't like your answer therefore it's invalid

>man, i wish i could go back to the good old days where we all died of the black plague

That is a factor, but at the same time, to put it in your words, you also have to watch out for the fallacy fallacy. Or to be more explicit about it, the flaw in your argument is believing that there's one thing that entirely explains the old=good/new=bad thing. Meanwhile, it can in fact be the case that people's perceptions of the past are warped, but that there's also an overall decline in quality.
Also IQ is defined such that 100 is the median score.

Because original gameplay mechanics are becoming increasingly rare. Play games long enough and you'll become a jaded oldshit too when everything starts having a sense of "been there done that (and with less faggotry)".

Who are you quoting?

Yeah, this.
Look at the Fallout series or TES. It looks prettier but everything else is dumbed down. At least we've got God Rays or something.

You need a fucking mod to get a better dialogue overview than YES, NO, I'M AS RETARDED AS OP

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test

I've been struggling with this recently. The current gaming landscape, its fucking terrible. Day 1 patches, lootboxes, "service" games with no end, games being sold in a $60 to start $30 for the toppings plus tax plus tip plus ship format, its egregious.

I desperately just want a game with like a beginning and an ending that doesn't really on a guide to find all the hidden collectibles or doing my "dailies" to "stay competitive".

which still doesn't mean that gacha shit counts as games.

Mostly because you actually had to play the game to win back then. Now all we have are games that have everything available from the start, only get a few hours of gameplay before becoming repetitive, are so mind-blowingly easy that everything might as well be unlocked, are microtransaction bait, are movie games, or are remakes. Sometimes you get a good game with actual difficulty and objectives, but its few and far between.

I'm not going to pretend the 80's and early 90's were much better, but we're well into a dark age. AAA studios are building games around microtransaction schemes, indies are made by people obsessed with meaningless culture wars, and what's in-between is feeling the pull of both. Censorship is making a comeback, and high-latency streaming is being pushed to market in an attempt to limit what we can do with our games more than digital distribution ever has.

When I say these people just tell me to move on from the past and spout some shitty platitude.

But they are right, everybody says the past was better. So are we wrong? Have we just become our parents?

Games like these do exist, you just pretend they don’t despite owning at least a dozen copies of it.

No.
Unlike a lot of past activities you can pick up most old games, play them now, and compare them to their modern counterparts. It's not rose tinted googles when you're actively playing a game. Biggest hole in that argument.

The older you get, the larger volume of a particular medium you consume. With a much larger knowledge and pool of options available, you become pickier and pickier. The "best" is no longer a handful of games you played in the last five years, but select games that came out over several decades. So, when picking some favorite or best games, you will frequently be picking games in the past as opposed to brand new games, just due to the sheer number available compared to brand new games.

There's also the fact that "old good new bad" is really more a comment comparing the currently released overhyped shit as compared to the select few good older games. This isn't really a new thing. There is always overhyped shit being released, and always has been. It's more of a pushback to hype culture and showing people what else is available that they could be playing besides dumping $60 and 100 hours into a fairly dull and repetitive brand new game.

A lot of current games are taking cues from mobile microtransaction systems as well, which does actually make them worse than older games.

I wouldn't say that new is necessarily bad. Tetris Effect looks like a really amazing game and is apparently one of the best Tetris games out there. However, that is one outstanding game in who knows how many years, and it might've been a few years since the last really good game. So sure, there can be new games coming out that are as good or better than older games, but that doesn't mean the vast majority of current games aren't crap.

Technically you're a fag but nobody is making a big deal about you taking cock up your ass as you trying to make the argument about why people are autistic and they should just stop being autistic

Because almost everything gets exponentially shittier every 10 years or so.

That said, OP is a fag, cause Bethesda games have always sucked.

I miss when devs and pubs that wanted to try something different, would create spinoffs that wouldn't "tarnish" the main entries.

>And pubs
Lemme stop you right there. Publishers have always been the enemy of video games, it's just now they know exactly how much power they wield and they abuse the fuck out of it

>Why do gamers have a “old good new bad” mentality?
Which gamers? Any zoomer doesn't think like that.

This guy fucking gets it. Some of my favorite games came out in 2017, 1998 and 2001. There are stand out games in both categories (old and new) that shine above all others in their genre.
The real problem with modern games is the expectation that games can be fixed with a patch here and there and stripping games of content to be sold back as DLC and how on disk DLC has been normalized. These are industry problems that are ruining games that would otherwise have a shot at being great, but publishers get in the way of this.

I feel the same way about Morrowind.