How did Blizzard, in less than 10 years, go from designing such inspired raid encounters like Naxxramas, Black Temple and Karazhan to manufacturing copypasted generic_fantasy_3561 dungeons filled with bad_evil_guys_#323 like those in the recent expansions??
What happened? Did they fire everyone even semj-decent for some reason?
raid encounters are absolutely not the problem with WoW. the games issues are a completely different thing.
also naxx, BT and kara dont come close to many of the raids that came later when it comes to concepts and difficulty.
Every talented person left because everytime they had a good idea it went to a meeting where they discussed if it would increase sub time or how they could change it to increase sub time
Yes, among other reasons. What is sad to me is that they went through all of WoD, Legion, and now BFA, and they still don't comprehend what they are doing wrong. Not that Legion and BFA have not had one or two goid things, but the good is vastly outweighed by the bad, especially since the bad encompasses 80% of the game. From leveling, to questing, to gearing, it just doesn't have worth anymore.
Transmog is unironically what killed WoW.
retarded
WoW backslid in every area, not just raids.
The trouble with WoW is that each generation wants QoL, but without any checks it’s a long slide to the bottom.
Original WoW players wanted attunements that weren’t a pain in the ass, raids that were more wieldy and a more streamlined way to gear up to them.
Players that started with TBC wanted heroics to be easier and attunements gone.
This started a death spiral that went unnoticed due to sub numbers continuing to climb steadily until 3.3, but by the time Cata rolled round and they realised the problem, their leads were too stupid to allow changes that would stabilise sub numbers at the cost of reducing them initially.
It took away all incentive to do things. Back in the days when you saw someone in tier gear you knew they were raiders, or if they had full gladiator set you knew they spent a lot of time doing arena. Now everyone gets to look cool without deserving it.
lmao
What if I have good gear but want to look like a peasant? I should just be forced to look like every other faggot in the same tier of gear?
The fuck are you talking about? Raids and instances the best feature of modern WoW, they have a dedicated team that specifically designs instance and raids encounters. The issue is that they don't focus on them enough because the fucking casual market can't handle the higher difficulties. If instead of shit like war-fronts and island expeditions they instead added more instances (because that's what the most dedicated and skilled players are doing), then we wouldn't have the issues of everything feeling obsolete and watered down.
This doesn't happen, mythic raiding gear looks distinctly better than heroic/normal/RF.
You very commonly see high level players wearing or transmogging this gear. It's been this way since MoP when they introduced it.
What really took away the incentive is multiple difficulty modes and LFR. Heroic raids were the beginning of the end. Easier difficulty levels make for more enjoyable progression for casual sure, but it also takes away the accomplishment of having beat a raid and being done with it. Now you beat a raid in the easier difficulty modes for gear, then step up to harder modes for better gear and then the hardest of modes. Absolutely dumb game design that destroys any sense of progression.
its fun game design.
devil may cry uses it effectively.
The wierdest part of it is how Legion's launch + 7.1 content is some of the most quotable shit even when exempting god-king Millhouse. Now all of that memorability is gone in BfA where every other boss is some generic written up by an intern as an afternoon project with the occasional heavyweight to add artificial tension, and now we have absolutely zero plot in 8.2 where we literally are just going to the two new zones because why the fuck not.
Not for MMORPGs, clearing a raid used to be a big deal, now everyone can do it. Sure you can toss frills on it and call it heroic, mythic and super legendary but it's not the same thing as it used to be.
The one difficulty raids of Classic/TBC meant that if you weren't up for the challenge you'd be stuck at a certain boss fight or raid, and when you finally managed to overcome that bump in difficulty it would be the best feeling ever.
To me slapping bigger numbers on gear drops and enemies just doesn't feel the same.
casuals like you that never cleared a mythic raid amuse me.
you can be sure that those people truly enjoy their kills.
Way to miss the point. I wasn't even speaking about the difficulty, of course the harder difficulties are hard, noone is disproving that. Is it challenging and fun? Absolutely, but thanks to this split you can now just tour a raid in LFR and normal and still claim to have beaten the content before you.
If your guild cleared BT when it was current that used to mean something. Now everyone can clear anything, they just have to adjust the difficulty slider.
It literally does not matter if you kill mythic raid tier99 or whatever number is it now or not.
What would you get from killing raid? Title? Everyone has so many titles they are useless, and old removed titles much more valuable than any new title. Mount? Same as the titles. Gear? Gear entirely pointless, you cant use it outside of competition for top parsers on warcraftlogs. Even looks are useless since xmog.
There absolutely 0 reason to put any effort into the game, rewards are just not there.
If you truly lose your sense of enjoyment from something just because someone out there completed an easier version of it you're just a sad person honestly.
you can also watch it on youtube. has the same amount of impact really.
heroic firelands will always be a bigger deal than BT despite the difficulties.
whole game was always pointless lmao.
It's not about my enjoyment, it's about what the game used to be about.
Progression was in absolutes. You either could kill a boss, or you couldn't. there was no middle ground or dialing down the difficulty. Using TBC again as an example, if your guild just didn't have the chops to step foot into anything that wasn't Karazhan or Gruul's Lair, then tough luck. And people didn't quit over this (the game continuously grew during the expansion), they just realized they weren't good enough for the rest of the content. Eventually they'd either improve or overgear the raids they couldn't clear before. The same happened in Classic. If you weren't good enough for BWL or AQ40 you'd be running MC.
But to get to my point, this new system harms the game because it simply lets people see all there is to see without putting the effort the serious raiders do. Is it really hard to fathom that most of the playerbase doesn't give a shit if they cleared a boss in hc or normal? They just wanted to beat the tier and clear the raid. They don't give a damn about trying to do it in harder difficulties, they know it's not for them so why should they bother.
By making the previous tiers completely redundant in a single patch and introducing difficulty modes tailor-made to each part of their playerbase they just make it so that the content draught hits way faster than before. It's why people sub for a month or two and quit after a new patch has been released. What else is there but see the new attraction one or two times and then quit?
>go to Molten Core
>kill bosses for a tiny chance of getting an epic to make you better at killing things so you can keep doing Molten Core for more epics until you can go to BWL for epics
>repeat until you have full T3 and BiS from Naxx
wow man vanilla raiding was so fucking DEEP and MEANINGFUL not like today where it's all POINTLESS and SOULLESS
You fucking clown
Fuck off retarded piece of shit, any MC phys weapon allows to literally oneshot non-raid geared clothies.
Atleast vanilla had a finish line
Bfa has rng out the ass so it feels like you never finish
Oh you got bis? Fuck you since it didnt titanforge or get socket
Having a goal and reaching it > endless loot with no finish line
>Classic WoW has tank and spank raids
>SOUL
>Nu WoW has raids where you need to have skill
>SOULLESS
Raids are great in WoW to this day. Don't @ me.
The game has a shit ton of problems and is an unfixable mess at this point but raids and the art are definitely not the two things that lead to it downfall. If anything the raid encounter team and art team are the only things worth salvaging at nu-blizzard.
It's called nostalgia
I still think it's cool to see someone using the most recent mythic set
I had a bad MMO addiction and WoW was pretty much all that was left. What finally killed it for me were mythic+ dungeons. I hated doing them and in order to get decent DPS you had to get trinkets from these fucking high keys because the raid trinkets were shit. Problem was I was expected to raid on raid days then spend my own time farming these fucking keys AND was expected to pug it because in my guild it was always the same five fucking people running keys so the rest of us got behind and we couldn't do them. Mythic+ was such a stupid idea and was just put in so they could have PvE e-sports bullshit. Fuck this streaming bullshit god damn kids ruin everything. Im reduced to playing Everquest again.
M+ is actually a good system. The problem always lies in the RNG of titanforge. You only ran those M+ for a chance at a high ilvl trinket. Titanforging is what killed WoW. Gear no longer mattered and you never had that BiS list again that you can work towards. Some faggot can do a +5 key or a normal Raid and get the same or better gear from your Mythic raid. It's disgusting and it's an absolute tragedy something like this exists in WoW.
There's nothing wrong with M+. It provides a challenge for 5 people. What they should do instead is reward players that run really high keys with rare titles and rare cosmetic rewards that get taken out of the game each new season. The gear from M+ should never outshine Raid gear either.
Exactly that. RPGs are about your character's stats first your immediate skill second. You are not your character, you just direct his actions and define the course of functional development. Rest is up to your character, i.e. his stats. A certain fraction of your own active player skill is fine but only so much. The moment player's action skill becomes prevalent when obtaining success an RPG loses its soul.
What a retarded opinion. I'll take Mythic Nighthold over Vanilla Naxx any day.
too bad that WoW has always been fucking awful about RPG aspects too.
also
>role playing game
>you are not your character
lmao
Raids unironically are better now than in vanilla-tbc both in mechanics and aesthetics.
People very did much quit over endgame content, in fact that whole period was pretty much known as raid or die because there was literally fuck all else to do. The game grew because it was still one of the most casual friendly MMOs of the day outside of raiding, what you think the game was about was content that a very, very small percentage of the playing population were seeing and it just wasn't good time and money spent making raids people never experienced. Yeah most people don't give a shit about clearing the super hard difficulties, they're not going to step up just because it was there just how they weren't stepping up in classic or TBC. Now they can at least get to see the raid and that just makes your super special snowflake ass hurt so bad, you're fucking sad to care about what other people are doing as if that has any effect on your personal achievements.
yes you take the role of a character. not the other way around.
the different difficulty tiers killed my guild that raided since before TBC (which is when I joined)
we cleared every raid before any nerfs, and then the difficulty stuff dropped and split the guild in different camps that shut down raiding entirely. fucking retarded
I'm aware that the character is not playing me you retard.
but it literally is. the character is mimicing rotation minigames. it's emulating your prowess in the game instead of you emulating the statistical strenght of your character.
The raids are tied into the lore. Modern wow raiding is shit because the lore is shit. They destroyed the lore to make more money and now creatively they're forced to come up with retarded shit to keep it interesting. That's why new wow raids are ass. It's an mmo where nobody cares about killing bosses because they're meaningless
Retail WoW is the very definition of soulless. Pretty much every facet of the game is artificial and completely bland.
>Leveling
Absolutely no challenge in anything, chainpulling 24/7, quests completing with magic radio and hardly ever returning to quest hub to return 10 quests at a time. Absolutely void of any satisfying moments with gear/quests.
>PvP
Since TBC PvP has felt like a completely different game with it's own progression systems and it feels disjointed from the rest of the game. PvP talents nowadays make your class play differently in PvP and every class has answers to everything so learning it is a pain in the ass. Getting gear in raids hardly matters at all for PvP.
>Class design
Classes have very little flaws, and if they do that makes them completely unviable because the game is so finely tuned at the highest levels. Pretty much all the (dps) classes have the same builder/spender rotations with 1.5-3min cooldowns. Talent specs completely change how your class plays (why the fuck can't a fire mage cast frostbolt??).
>Mythic+
Fine idea on paper to have challenging 5-man content. In practice creates extremely anti-social behaviour with the speed-running aspect. Slight mistakes will make you fail the run and everyone gets mad at you. 100% RNG loot and busted trinkets pretty much force you to grind them whenever a new "season" starts since the trinkets are BIS for PvE and you need to upgrade their iLvl to stay competitive.
>Raids
Encounter design has been very good and raid aesthetics all around are excellent. LFR and normal difficulties are a joke, and even heroics are puggable. Mythic on the other hand is extremely difficult, especially on the later fights. 4 different difficulties create gear inflation and is the reason why Blizzard is forced to stat squish every 2 expansions now.
I'm so fucking mad that they destroyed the game and for making me write rants
>It took away all incentive to do things.
Remove Transmog is going to took even more incentive things to do, transmog is the only reason why people are running old raid, stop been stupid
also nobody gives a shit about your tier gear look, they are all shit
>Clearing cakewalk raid used to be an achiiiiveeewmwnr
Post your R.io and hall of fame faggot.
I don't know why you think I'm invested about whether people experienced the raids or not. It's not controversial to want the current expansion to be relevant for as long as possible, and the old system made sure of that. Attunements, lack of difficulty modes and of heavy catch-up mechanisms (until the very last patches) made sure of that.
Yes, it is a problem that people get to clear the latest raid as soon as their patch is rolled out. you just spread the flawed Everquest game design to the rest of the playerbase.
>that pic
Tigole should work on warframe
But you first have to get the gear in order to transmog it?
Well of Souls was a fucking garbage fight and the model you have pictured looked fucking atrocious. Fuck off, retard, you didn't even raid BT.
>how to spot a tranny fantasy retard
Raids and dungeons are better than they've been for the most time.
Classic is just around the corner, you can revisit the brilliant design for yourself.
>tank knockback
>unavoidable aoe fear
>trash spams cc on tank
>more knockback
Epic, just epic.
>Did they fire everyone even semi-decent for some reason?
yeah sums up blizzard pretty well
almost all devs who designed wow since vanilla left after lich king
Its completly different game after wotlk made from different people
Kotick bought them during wotlk. From there the company focused on benchmarks for profit. There was a famous interview on a starcraft fansite with kotick where he told how he drilled them to value profit over everything else because they were doing crazy shit like only looking at fun factor.
So what happened next is they tried to get a bigger userbase by changing what the game is. Their existing customers got disfranchised and left while new customer inflow stayed low because other games where already offering better games for the grounds wow didn't cover.
no thats not what happened.
blizzard simply did not reinvest any of the money WoW made back into the game.
rehashed naxx, one room raid tier and one year of ICC, the clusterfuck that was dragonsoul for more than a year, one year of siege of orgrimmar, the absolute unfinished state of WoD.
like they expected people to stick around for an old mmo when there is fuckall for new content for OVER A YEAR across multiple expansions.
then they wondered why people jump shit and dont return.
They changed their core philosophy past wotlk. Core design like class simplification was a steady process. How is that related to money? Cataclysm had also higher development cost than wotlk. So it's even on paper not right to say they didn't get enough funding.
>play modern WoW
>Raids don't feel like you fight the boss rather than playing a mario party minigame
>run, jump, pick up an item, jump, run, dodge laser and so on
Holy fuck that was so lame I'm literally cured of MMO's as a whole after the shit show that is BFA.
Raids are the least of any of wow's issues. They still make great, challenging raids.
nothing's good anymore, it's all a dull homogenized soup to maximize profits at minimal risk
i remember a lot of people not liking Dragon Soul, is that right? seems p. good to me
>What happened? Did they fire everyone even semj-decent for some reason?
What happened is that the company originally used Everquest 1 as a base to copy from. Then after the "classic" era the company tried to branch out and come up with "original" concepts which most just ended up being rip offs and clones of other products, like MoP being a rip off of Kung Fu Panda. Shit didn't really hit the fan though until BFA which is when the company couldnt just copy off of someone elses Homework. Now after all the layoffs due to how poor the latest expac was received. The company is now desperate to keep the product afloat since right now the active sub count is now at its lowest. Almost everyone that worked on Nax, BT, Karazhan (the raid in BC) have either moved on to other companies, retired, or died. Very few remain that worked on such content and those that did are either taking orders from new blood or people that have no clue what they are doing.
>a 1600 arena score can transmog to the 2200 required score gear
Nice try dude. Haven’t played since LK and still know you’re wrong.
>concepts
opinion
>difficulty
complexity, but that's also a matter of improving tech and many diminished effects of boss mechanics whereas many simple mechanics were extremely deadly and had to be dealt with carefully
>zoomers dusagreeing with this
Nu-Yea Forums pls
>MoP being a rip off of Kung Fu Panda
unreal that there are still retards in 2019 that believe this
I cleared every boss on mythic but Imperator in Highmaul while current, and the only one I can say I really enjoyed at the end was Guldan because the fight was good. Mythic raiding is unrewarding as fuck and why the guild stopped in BFA as it continued to get worse