Silent Hill: Origins is underappreciated

6 times*

I really liked the serial killer implications and some scenes are okay but overall I can't say I liked it all that much

Some of the item descriptions in Origins are... not quite right in hindsight.

Meat Hook: A sharp meat hook. A cruel-looking curved meat hook, lethally sharp and ideal for piercing flesh.

Shovel: A short-handled shovel. Good for maiming bodies and then for burying them.

Silent Hill "fans" genuinely don't know what they want. A game that plays like classic Silent Hill would be criticized for its gameplay. A game that radically reinvents the gameplay of Silent Hill would be attacked for not being a real Silent Hill game. Silent Hill isn't capable of pivoting the way Resident Evil did. Games that try to be like Silent Hill sell poorly. Just look at The Evil Within 2.

Twin Perfect ruined Silent Hill by spawning a legion of know-it-all fans who spout absolute nonsense "facts" about Silent Hill that conveniently "prove" every Silent Hill not made by Japanese people is wrong.

Alchemilla, Cedar Grove Sanitarium, Artaud Theater, Riverside motel were all atmospheric as fuck. Way better than dozens of malls and offices in SH3 or grey corridors in Room.

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Origins gets something of a pass from me for emulating the gameplay and aesthetics of the classic games. It's certainly a pale imitation and its few attempts at innovation didn't do anything to better the formula, but despite all that it ultimately played like SH1-3 more than it didn't and for that I can't really shit on it.

>A game that radically reinvents the gameplay of Silent Hill would be attacked for not being a real Silent Hill game.
PT is bizarre because it's nothing like Silent Hill, but the weebs ate it up and their defense against all criticism was, "Lol, the actual Silent Hills is going to be totally different and it'll automatically be good because Kojima can do no wrong."

is there evidence on the stuff about new story and so on?
Never heard of that, and I really dig such ba kground stuff abiout games.
been a silent hill dan since i played the first when i was 15, back in ... i dunno, 1999?
Sh2 made me beg my parents for a ps2, and it was so worth it. graphics and presentatuon blew my mind.

Is there a collective website where one can read more about SH development stuff? much appreciated.

>a game that plays like classic silent hill would be criticized for its gameplay
only by non-fans
>a game that radically reinvents the gameplay would be attacked
the gameplay isn't the main thing people like about the series.
>silent hill isn't capable of pivoting the way resident evil did
every single resident evil game past the ps1 era is trash, yes that includes 4.
>sales
nobody who likes games cares about sales info, and evil within 2 isn't trying to be SH, it just shares some basic theming that's common in horror as a whole.
there's no good reason a new silent hill game couldn't be fantastic, you could modernize it just fine. especially now in the era of VR you could easily get the normie crowd, or at least you could've, but that ship's probably sailed by now.
pt was shit btw

>You had all these self-declared Metal Gear fans refusing to play the game that was literally called Metal Gear Solid 5 for most of development because it was on a portable platform

youtube.com/watch?time_continue=18&v=pqjVdPtB9lU

>and their defense against all criticism was, "Lol, the actual Silent Hills is going to be totally different and it'll automatically be good because Kojima can do no wrong."

Yeah, that sounds like Kojimafags.

Fun fact. The Japanese game guide for Silent Hill depicts the upper floors of the building on fire, which exactly matches Origins. Obviously this artwork was drawn by IMPURE GAIJIN WHO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND SILENT HILL.

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>every single resident evil game past the ps1 era is trash, yes that includes 4.

You're gonna do REmake like that? I can understand Zero, CV, 7 and RE2make to varying extents (hell, Zero actually isn't that good period) but REmake? You don't even have to think it's better than the original but come on, it was good.

to be fair, when PT was shown, Kojima still had the official status as being the mastermind behind mgs.
anyone who followed mgs stopped when they went portable and fucked the main line, also mgs4 was garbage. but never was it clear that konima was the poison. and yes Konima is fitting.

>it'll automatically be good because Kojima can do no wrong.
I love how the man who retconned the living shit out of Metal Gear Solid to suit his whims was seen as the man who would save Silent Hill from the evil westerners.

sorry, it's late and i literally forgot about it. remake is good. it's the final RE game. stretching further, even 0 is decent. 4 is the point of no return, though.

Beginning of Origins with this track was pure kino:
youtube.com/watch?v=3FqZ9AezbB4

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>I love how the man who retconned the living shit out of Metal Gear Solid to suit his whims
do you... uh do you know who made MGS? directed, wrote, produced, and designed? user?

>only by non-fans
The market for games with shit combat isn't big enough to support a big budget series like Silent Hill. Just ask Metal Gear Survive.
>evil within 2 isn't trying to be SH, it just shares some basic theming that's common in horror as a whole.
Nah, TW2 was very, very clearly trying to be a bit of hybrid of SH1 and SH: Downpour.

name a more chad weapon

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wasn't metal gear survive a commercial success? either way i never found SH's combat to be shit. the series' draw isn't specifically combat, either. and with walking sims more popular than ever before, i think it could make a comeback.

anyone can say anything they want about that game but chunking an entire tv at an enemy felt great.

Being the lead writer of a series doesn't give you license to just retcon stuff to dig yourself out of your bad writing hole. Kojima is a terrible writer and a terrible lore handler. He just made shit up as he went along and ignored whatever didn't fit. Imagine if a British developer had made MGS 4 and introduced NANOMACHINES. They would have been crucified.

>anyone can say anything they want about that game but chunking an entire tv at an enemy felt great
not beating the crap out of everything with travis fist?

>wasn't metal gear survive a commercial success?
It probably made some money considering its low budget, but its sales were overall very poor. Its combat where you ran around in mysterious fog and poked things with a stick until they died became a meme.
>the series' draw isn't specifically combat, either. and with walking sims more popular than ever before, i think it could make a comeback.
The oldschool SH fans bitched and moaned because SH: Shattered Memories didn't have any combat. They genuinely want SH to have absolutely fucking awful combat because they see it as a core element of SH design. Remove the shit gameplay, and it's not SH anymore.

You can't.

Holy fuck, I forgot how good this song is:
youtube.com/watch?v=k6j_9KT23Mw

McGlynn voice is on another level.

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>Remove the shit gameplay, and it's not SH anymore.
To be fair, that's a hallmark of a lot of survival horror that's not called Fatal Frame. Part of the appeal of the genre is relative weakness in the face of adversity.

shattered memories was a pretty polarizing title as far as i remember but ultimately i think the biggest mistake they made was advertising it as a semi remake of the first one. sh fans are insane about "lore rape" and everything that isn't 100% faithful to their (mostly fanmade headcanon) interpretation of the lore is pure dogshit.

Silent Hill is just an amalgamation of various horror influences and PT was fucking gold in that regard. However I'm glad it got shitcanned because Kojima likely would have gone all in with hollywood castings that don't fit and lost my interest.

I remember when Hulett said something about how SH's combat was bad, and SH fans lost their shit at him.

>it as a semi remake of the first one
It was a sequel of SH1 Bad Ending. Developers stated that clearly in the interview after release.

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>ultimately i think the biggest mistake they made was advertising it as a semi remake of the first one.
Believe it or not, this was the result of behind the scenes stuff. Basically, they were working on SH: Cold Heart. And they were having issues getting Konami to greenlight the game. This period was when Konami began to start acting strange. So they looked at the situation, and there was a slot where Konami had been planning a remake of SH1. So they disguised their game as a remake of SH1 and were careful to never let Konami management see that it wasn't a remake of SH1. Harry Mason is not Harry Mason. He's another character renamed to Harry Mason as part of the ruse. Also, they waited until there was a change in management and removed combat from the game while Konami was out of contact with them. Basically Shattered Memories was them doing what they had to do to get Konami's money. In an ideal world they wouldn't have pretended it was an SH1 remake. But them's the unfortunate breaks.

Regardless, even when they wore SH1's skin to disguise the game, they were careful not to contradict SH1 by positioning the game as an alternate reality. Climax cared a great deal about trying to make the best Silent Hill games they could while respecting the series and its lore.

But fans didn't know this, and even if they did know this stuff they didn't care. I always found it telling how the SH crazies didn't bother asking Sam Barlow questions about the game directly even though the guy is on Twitter and is relatively easy to get an interview with. They saw all the post-Team Silent games as random 'westerners', and the only person they cared about was Tomm Hulett, the focus of their anger. There's an interview with Sam Barlow that specifically addresses why certain things were the way they were in Origins, for example. nodontdie.com/sam-barlow Nobody bothered referring to that because they preferred their fanciful conspiracy theories peddled by youtubers.

>Part of the appeal of the genre is relative weakness in the face of adversity.
They gone too far with that in Rule of Rose. That shit was borderline playable mess.

Funny you mention that, I was actually thinking about saying SH's combat isn't so bad because of this very game. Truth be told though, you can work around it once you figure out some of its jank. I found that focusing on range/spacing over power and only committing to actions with very lengthy animations (such as combo finishers) judiciously resulted in much more bearable combat. Still not good, but more bearable for sure. But yeah, running up and button mashing is a REALLY bad idea in RoR. Like, a really fucking bad idea.

>It was a sequel of SH1 Bad Ending. Developers stated that clearly in the interview after release.
Nah, all connections to SH1 were just ruses on their part to make the game seem like an SH1 remake so that Konami would greenlight it. It's a Silent Hill game involving the supernatural power of Silent Hill -- which is why Harry Mason interacts with real people even though he's supposedly just a memory in his daughter's mind -- but the events of SH1 almost certainly didn't happen. It is SIMILAR to the SH1 Bad End, however. And if you were determined to make the games fit, you could interpret it that way. But the real reason is pure pragmatism because Konami were starting to become... difficult.

There's been a rumour for a few years that Konami started getting shitty about stuff like female protagonists. Shattered Memories was supposed to have a female protag back when it was Cold Heart. Got changed to Harry Mason. Okay, that's a bit weird. Especially since Barlow is something of an SJW. But then along comes Downpour. And you're a dude with this female side character who seems weirdly more connected to the story. There's been a strong suspicion for some time that Cunningham was supposed to be the protagonist but Konami forced them to change it to Murphy Pendleton.

Kinda reminds me of how Deadly Premonition was supposed to star a female cop, but the production people argued that Americans wouldn't play the game if it had a female lead.

SM was a solyent-tier deconstruction that never bothered to piece together the elements in a way to improve the experience (psychological evaluation was a gimmick more useless than an online test, the horror element is gone - it's nothing more than a walking simulator with a calm cold palette to complete the arc of the series' point getting utterly over game designer's head)

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>psychological evaluation was a gimmick more useless than an online test
It is one of the better executions in a videogame. Even stuff like whether you look NPCs in the face or not have subtle effects.

>Kinda reminds me of how Deadly Premonition was supposed to star a female cop, but the production people argued that Americans wouldn't play the game if it had a female lead.
Based Americans.

>have subtle effects
on what? the end text blurb? They promised the evaluation would literally change the horror element of what will be haunting you throughout the game, but it ended up just tweaking the unimportant to gameplay (because it's non-existent - there's no survival, beyond running away from low poly geometric shapes) design elements, like how slutty a female will look and stuff like that.

You are faggot. Leave the thread.

>on what?
A bunch of environmental stuff. I can't remember what looking at Kaufmann vs avoiding his gaze represents, though.
>running away from low poly geometric shapes
The Raw Shocks change shape depending on your behavior.

The Raw Shocks have 4 (or 5?) distinct visual shapes according to each ending and some mix of the parts depending on your previous behavior.

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>retreads old games on surfice level without understanding what made them work
>makes up stupid nonsensical story that contradicts established canon
At least it is not Homecoming or Downpour.

>makes up stupid nonsensical story that contradicts established canon
Say hello to SH3, SH3 and the Room.

That big monster on the left is totally rad

>Downpour
I enjoyed the semi open ended exploration in this much more than Silent Hills' shitty 'just put broken locks everywhere lmao'. Too bad the rest of the game is buggy crap.

>>makes up stupid nonsensical story that contradicts established canon
Origins doesn't contradict established canon. It's a very well done prequel that is very careful to respect its source material while exploring it.

Downpour is pretty okay for a game to be honest
The silent hill name definitely carried hard weight with it and the wonky as fuck ending sequences were really iffy but the first few parts of the game and town was pretty decently done and not going directly where you're supposed to offered up some fun shit

Caliban was great implementation of Alessa's fears with "The Tempest" backgroud.

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>not going directly where you're supposed to offered up some fun shit
This. I thought they were gonna deliver on that aspect and I was very wrong.

>Deadly Premonition was supposed to star a female cop
Nigga wtf, I thought it was clear from the early trailers that the Dale Cooper superficial clone they made was the protagonist all along.

And what's the excuse after it was ported to consoles?
Also, this wasn't some bullshit project with an IP slapped on it like Diablo. It was made by Kojipro with the man himself directing it.

>no arguments
>REEEEEE FUCK OFF
keep seething, self hating tranny

I really liked Origins. The Theater was a top tier area, as was the Motel. Last SH with a truly 10/10 soundtrack too.

Hulett could say the sky is blue and I would shit on him for it.

Nah, Homecoming OST and SM OST were top tier too.

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Characters in first game clearly experience Fog world and Otherworld for the first time. Also in Origins, Lisa acts out of character.

It's my favourite SH

Homecoming was okay, but had a lot of songs that were too quiet. SM was quite good but I thought that came out ahead of Origins.

>Characters in first game clearly experience Fog world and Otherworld for the first time
No. They had seven year gap between games events. They knew WHAT they initiated and what they can expect from Holy Mother.

>Also in Origins, Lisa acts out of character.
She is real person on drugs in SHO. She is ghost-like memory in SH1.

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>And what's the excuse after it was ported to consoles?
Too late for them to care.

Downpour wasn't bad either.
If it wasn't called "Silent Hill", had better enemy designs/variations and ran smoothly it would have been well-liked imo.

Silent Hill fans are some of the most obnoxious and elitists pieces of shit that I've ever seen. If you dare to stray from their very ill defined status of what a good Silent Hill game is they'll hang draw and quarter you.

The prison area is probably the worst shit I've played on the ps3/360 gen. Straight up unfinished puzzles then turns into horror Prince of Persia.

>aesthetically, it's very close to SH1-3
Uhhh, maybe, and more if you take into account it's supposed to be a PSP game. But the monster design feels uninspired and doesn't even go as deep in concepts as Masahiro Ito did previously, and the characters are just average

>Alessa was burned alive by her mother. That was the ritual.
Alessa almost dies because of the fire. They literally had to take her to a hospital and did all they could to keep her alive. It is extremely obvious that she wasn't supposed to be burned. And even then, in SH3 they explicitly show you how the God is supposed to be born. It physically grows up kinda like a fetus, and no fire is needed. You could imagine that when Dahlia did the ritual, she probably lit some candles and stuff, like typical rituals are. But the Japanese team actually said it was a boiler explosion. The location of Alessa wasn't specified, and it's not relevant, really.

>Travis is very likely a serial killer.
So this is the kind of people we're dealing with, right? just your usual over-imaginative mind, that thinks everything makes sense to them because it's cool

On top of this, I don't really give a shit if Climax had financial pressure or couldn't spend the time to figure out the plot. The point is that the game isn't consistent with the others plot, and even if the gameplay is decent for a portable console, canonically it's just wrong. It's the best western Silent Hill game, and that's it.

>Characters in first game clearly experience Fog world and Otherworld for the first time.
SH1-4 make it clear that Silent Hill has been a sacred site for a long time. The idea that Otherworld didn't exist in any form prior to Cheryl turning up is not really substantiated by SH1. Is Origins pulling a retcon? Yes, but it's a very, very careful retcon. It doesn't contradict SH1. But it does contradict some people's fan theories, and that got them hopping mad.
>She is real person on drugs in SHO. She is ghost-like memory in SH1.
This. Lisa in SH1 is a slusshy phantom. Origins Lisa is a real flesh and blood girl having sex with Kaufmann for drugs. There's no real consistency issue.

Look, I like poking holes in prequels and sequels where they clearly forgot stuff. Heck, I love that SUPER EASY, BARELY AN INCONVENIENCE movie pitch guy on Screenrant. But with Origins, the nitpicks were generally bullshit that didn't hold up to scrutiny.

It all boils down to Climax not being Team Silent. Their work was automatically viewed with disdain and suspicion and any real or imagined contradictions were viewed as proof that Climax didn't understand Silent Hill.

I played a bit of Downpour on RPCS3 a while back. Emulation makes it perform a fair bit better than on original hardware. Game has some neat vibes. I love the soundtrack. I think that, much like SH HD Collection, Konami pushed Downpour out the door before it was ready. They even cancelled the PC version.

Isn't Downpour Backwards Compatible on Xbox One, too? Wonder how that version performs.

BURRRRRP

Kaufmann is clearly confused during your first meeting. Lisa as well. Moreover, do you think Kaufmann would actually start opposing cult only during first game after what happened during Origins. Once he sees first signs of fuckery he is out.

One of the endings seems to confirm that Travis is a serial killer, so its really up to the player. Not sure why thats a problem.

>But the monster design feels uninspired
Sam Barlow had a week to rewrite the story and design all the monsters.
>Alessa almost dies because of the fire. They literally had to take her to a hospital and did all they could to keep her alive.
Alessa split her soul in two, which wasn't part of the cult's plan.
>It is extremely obvious that she wasn't supposed to be burned.
It was a fire ritual and Team Silent's approved guide, which is literally the only source for the basement being the ritual location also states:

>Although it seems the cult has a place they use for rituals, Dahlia was confident that she would be able to summon the malevolent deity if Alessa was the surrogate mother; therefore, as it was not necessary to choose a location, she impulsively carried out the ritual in her own basement. The ritual process involved a great deal of fire, which consequently escalated into a conflagration.

silenthillmemories.net/sh1/articles/sh1_official_guide_qa_en.htm

>Being the lead writer of a series doesn't give you license to just retcon stuff to dig yourself out of your bad writing hole
It absolutely does. The story of the individual piece of media is several orders of magnitude more important than the series "canon". Whining about canon is the worst thing the internet has done to the world of fiction.

>Moreover, do you think Kaufmann would actually start opposing cult only during first game after what happened during Origins.
Kaufmann is a manipulative scumbag looking out for himself. His behavior is self serving.

>Origins is underappreciated
No, it is just absolute garbage.
Way, way worse than even the Homocoming.

I don't see how anyone has a right to call something a bad entry in a series which built itself on intentionally janky controls. That to me is a sign that it's an improvement.

>SH1-4 make it clear that Silent Hill has been a sacred site for a long time
The city was built on sacred ground, yes, but the "otherworld" doesn't exist. The demon filled Alessa's mind with twisted nightmares as he was growing inside her, and her psychic powers made them into reality. What you see isn't another dimension seeping through. What you see is reality being changed with horrible ideas. This is literally and explicitly explained in SH1.

About the Lisa from Origins, yes, this is supposed to be the real Lisa, a person that Alessa didn't really get to know, so obviously it would be somewhat different to the recreation from SH1, but some things just seemed out of character, either way. You can't just shit on a beloved character like that, but nevermind, I didn't find plot issues there either. It was wrong for other reasons, in my opinion.

To rephrase, being the original writer doesn't make you magically immune. If a new writer takes over, they tend to cop a lot of shit from loyalists to the old writer. But if the old writer made those same mistakes or choices, it's often fair game.

Case in point -- Team Silent retconned and ignored stuff where it was a problem. But the moment Climax came along, every single plot detail was nitpicked because people were assmad that Team Silent wasn't making the games anymore.

after what she did and said during the HD Collection fiasco, I have lost all the respect towards her.

>Alessa almost dies because of the fire. They literally had to take her to a hospital and did all they could to keep her alive.
You are fucking idiot. Alessa cant die with God inside her. They put her in conditions of constant tortures because God can be born only in such restrict rules.

They took her to the hospital to hide body in the basement and generate fake death report.

>Silent Hill fans are some of the most obnoxious and elitists pieces of shit that I've ever seen.
This.
see
>The city was built on sacred ground, yes, but the "otherworld" doesn't exist
Jesus Christ. Otherworld always exist. There were made fuckton of rituals in this place. Remember "Little Baroness" incident of 1872?

I don't particularly care about retcons.
I take stories as individual works generally. I think caring about "lore accuracy" is pathetic. It's that mindset that ruined the entire medium of comic books.

>The demon filled Alessa's mind with twisted nightmares as he was growing inside her, and her psychic powers made them into reality. What you see isn't another dimension seeping through. What you see is reality being changed with horrible ideas. This is literally and explicitly explained in SH1.
The argument is that reality can be changed by any psychic force. You don't actually need Alessa or her demon. Silent Hill will keep doing spooky things forever, and it has possibly always done them, albeit in a more subdued form.

The nature of Silent Hill got screwy the moment SH2 came along, DESU. Silent Hill 4 is even worse because the town can affect people and places far outside its geographic region.

>having standards and respecting the original IP is now "obnoxious"
Do you also use terms like "toxic" or "problematic" unironically?

>Otherworld always exist.
There is no other "world".
Just psychic projections that can alter *OUR* world.
The "OW" is not some mirror dimension or hell that houses all the nasties. It all originates from "us".

>Sam Barlow had a week to rewrite the story and design all the monsters
As I said, I don't care, the final product ended up being what it is... I'm not shitting on Climax or Barlow or anything

>silenthillmemories.net/sh1/articles/sh1_official_guide_qa_en.htm
That guide was NOT written by any Team Silent member, nor was "approved" by them. It only has the Konami approval, so it doesn't count at all as confirmation for anything.
I also said the location of the ritual isn't relevant. The cause of the fire is what matters the most, and even tho the ritual may "involved" fire, it doesn't say that Alessa had to be burned or anything. Alessa almost dies because of that fire, the cult didn't want that. The soul splitting doesn't change that fact.

>They took her to the hospital to hide body in the basement and generate fake death report.
It's bizarre how the newspaper article spawned the so-called "boiler theory" that Alessa was burned by accident, when said article literally claims that Alessa's body was found. The article is a coverup that claims the girl is dead and the fire's cause was not suspicious.

As one person put it, boiler theory is a bizarre conspiracy theory that there is no conspiracy in Silent Hill 1.

>Silent Hill 4 is even worse because the town can affect people and places far outside its geographic region.
It was a mess of lore.

>Alessa almost dies because of that fire, the cult didn't want that
You are genuine imbecile.

SH3 has a fucking retarded story and everyone loves that game.

Go rewatch that cutscene with Heather before the Leonard boss fight. Its so fucking terribly written, it feels like something out of goddamn Clocktower 3.

Yes, the power always existed and did few things. But otherworld as presented in games is that power twisted by the cult ritual from the first game.
On the contrary, Climax are actually only somewhat competent guys after Team Silent. Shattered Memories is great game.

How can anyone who enjoys le beating monsters with a plank of wood simulator have any standards?

>Fun fact. The Japanese game guide for Silent Hill depicts the upper floors of the building on fire, which exactly matches Origins. Obviously this artwork was drawn by IMPURE GAIJIN WHO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND SILENT HILL.

That is an UNOFFICIAL game guide.

THere's several Official Konami Guides made by Konami, and that one which is not. Learn the difference.

>SH3 has a fucking retarded story and everyone loves that game.
Indeed. Heather in South Silent Hill doesnt make any fuckin sense.

>plays with children's toys he has dubbed as "vidya"
>bitches about standards
irony. You has none.

>ALL video games are shit haha I win
bold strategy Cotton let's see if it pays off

>The cause of the fire is what matters the most, and even tho the ritual may "involved" fire, it doesn't say that Alessa had to be burned or anything.
Silent Hill 3 describes the situation as follows:

"The young woman burned by her mother as a
sacrifice to God... Alessa Gillespie."

Alessa was burned as part of an immolation ritual designed to make her suffer. This suffering was the key to birthing their god.
>Alessa almost dies because of that fire, the cult didn't want that.
The fire wasn't supposed to burn the house down. It was only supposed to inflict unimaginable torment upon a seven year old.
>The soul splitting doesn't change that fact.
The soul splitting temporarily sabotaged the ritual. They couldn't proceed, so they moved the now immortal Alessa to the Hospital to bide their time.

If you dont like any Silent Hill games, why are you even in this thread?
>inb4 poo poo pee pee

NO, the town never did anything "weird" before that. Every character in SH1 that has been there for a long time see the phenomenon as a new and weird shit. Even Kauffman is somewhat scared and worried about the event.
The town itself had "power", not anything else. It was only when the demon was tried to be summoned that the town started to be affected by it. The town gets more twisted as the god literally grows inside Alessa.
SH2 was the aftermath of the demon's influence on the spiritual power. The one which really started to fuck things up was SH4, and they had to come up with new rules just to make the plot somewhat coherent. But the whole base of this is that the town's power was altered by the demon.

That story doesn't tell you anything, it's just a ship that sank

Yeah this really did a great job setting the mood.

>Indeed. Heather in South Silent Hill doesnt make any fuckin sense.

y?

Couldn't you handwave it by saying that the demon is conceived during the opening scene of Origins and therefore from that moment, you've got a proto-Otherworld manifesting?

>it's just a ship that sank
Play arcade game. Or read the plot.

She is supposed to visit Alchemilla and Midvich School and not Brookhaven and strip bar. This is laziest resources reuse I've ever seen.

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If you genuinely care about the Silent Hill "lore", you are a fucking retard. The point is to be mysterious and spooky, trying to establish hard logic behind it all is the dumbest thing you could possibly do.

If you genuinely try to connect SH2 to any other game in the series, then you totally misunderstood what the game was trying to do. Maybe you should have paid attention to the dog ending making a mockery of all your retarded lore.

Why did people get assblasted about PH in Homecoming? Even in SH2 it was confirmed he wasnt exclusive to being seen by James.

>referencing Arcade game
Mall from SH3 is now canonically located in Silent Hill.

The Twin Perfect people had the Silent Hill hardcore eating out of their hands for years, but eventually their bullshit started catching up with them.

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Probably because it served a purpose in 2 and didn't in Homecoming.

Thats more to the story being halfbaked. I still remember people shitting on me when I brought up Walter having seen PH. Sometimes "fans" of this series go full retard about details they disagree with.

>"The young woman burned by her mother as a
sacrifice to God... Alessa Gillespie."
Harry is only telling you how he interprets it. He is the typical adult that would "simplify" things in that sort of way. Like someone claiming that you caused an crash because you didn't care to change the brake pads early
Alessa ended up being burned because of Dahlia, the way he sees it, she burned her. If you take what he said literally, Alessa wasn't actually a sacrifice to God.

I've never played Homecoming. What is actually wrong with Homecoming?

>Why did people get assblasted about PH in Homecoming?
They are whining faggots.

It served same purpose in HC.

Attached: The_Order's_Iconography.png (432x518, 333K)

no, because in SH1 Kauffman sees the thing as new

Kinda bland environments. Really gets shitty later on. That said its actually not terrible. There are some fun gameplay elements like monsters following you through doors and really limited ammo.

The knife is stupidly strong though.

It reeks of "let's just repeat popular imagery associated with the series because that'll get the fans and wannabes excited". Think like the Force Awakens of Silent Hill.

By Ito himself, this version of Pyramid Head was James exclusive. He was based from James recollection of executioner picture he was in Silent Hill Historical society before when he visited it with Mary. Walter's 'boogeyman' would have different look. By time 4 came out it was retconned that the Red Devil he wrote about was priest of the cult that was first victim of Walter.

The point of the ritual was to place Alessa in a stage of agony so she could be the mother. What exactly do you think they were doing to her if not burning her?

I really enjoyed origins, it's almost as good as 1-3.
Anyone that bashes it hasn't played it, or isn't a fan of the original silent hill games.

>because in SH1 Kauffman sees the thing as new
He pretend.

>What is actually wrong with Homecoming?
There are many "western" inelegant elements such as: typical nigger policemen, Saw-like tortures in the end of the game, human massacre, and so on.
But its plot, enemies and bosses simbolism is on point.

PH in Homecoming looks different though. So there is no problem.

>no, because in SH1 Kauffman sees the thing as new
I'm pretty sure Kaufmann never encountered Otherside in Origins.

uh, I don't know, black magic maybe?

He pretends so much that he is the one that throws Aglaophotis to Alessa, right

This may be the case.

Attached: y_1889aa97.jpg (569x807, 96K)

I liked Origins but you feel the limitations of it being a portable game. Mainly that there is usually only one way to go.

He looks to similar. But yeah even the confirmed White Hunter look very similar. pbs.twimg.com/media/D0MMBK8U8AAfmlU.jpg
It think that problem is that he does not do anything really in HC. Shows up as fanservice and leave. Then he kills Alex's father. But the scene is really badly executed. Instead of meaningful development he just get butchered.

>I'm pretty sure Kaufmann never encountered Otherside in Origins.
I think he is present during ritual at the end which is the point in which Alessa summons the nightmare.

Ignite me!
My trigger...
Your finger...

What did Mary Elizabeth McGlynn meant by that?

The cult in Silent Hill worships a fucking sun god. Yet people still question why the cult would burn the mother of their god with fire. THE SUN IS MADE OF FIRE.

burn her
shoot her
finger her

in that order

no it isnt

>THE SUN IS MADE OF FIRE

Attached: 1550995465935.gif (298x301, 1.81M)

And water isn't wet. But practically speaking, it's close enough for government work. The sun is a ball of flaming plasma.

I would champion Origins as a truly worthy non-Team Silent SH game if only it had focused solely on Travis and his baggage without any of the prequel bullshit.

>That story doesn't tell you anything, it's just a ship that sank
The ship vanished completely along with all its passengers. The entire implication is that it didn't just sink. It vanished, possibly into another reality.

It would also help if he wasn't that strong but could run more than five metres without almost having heart attack.

>Silent Hill: Origins is underappreciated

It is shit OP. It is a bastardization of the original four good SH games made by glorious Japan. Being the best of a pile of shit still means it is a pile of shit.

Retard weeb detected.

Travis is a truck driver. I highly doubt his stamina when running would be that great. It also fixes the problem older SH games had where running away from everything was trivial.

>possibly into another reality
that's just being imaginative... ships have disappeared with no trace irl before, the most logical assumption is that it sank and they couldn't find the wreck

>Ignite me!
>My trigger
>You're a

Attached: 077132f50ad65945bbf60863fec72081_xl.jpg (1200x1200, 149K)

>that's just being imaginative... ships have disappeared with no trace irl before, the most logical assumption is that it sank and they couldn't find the wreck
And none of the bodies. And none of the debris. A ship vanishes at Silent Hill and that's totally normal. Just a sinking.

I'm not saying it's totally normal, my claim was that it's there to be spooky and make you doubt, but it definitely doesn't give you info. It gives you a question, not an answer. You can't just assume that because that ship sank the town is haunted. You can only be certain that you don't know. That's the point.

>long ass SH thread
>no one has posted the SH PC Guide + links
This shall not stand!

SH1 NTSC DDL:
mega.nz/#!bVUCTJzD!PmnPw4S7fWGyvTjw9S0-RQdk7rRp2BQNuXJqRkZCZvk

SH2 DDL:
mega.nz/#!rFcj1SIJ!47JH9M4OrzmQKuaiJ6IqUgmgz_SVNtk4LIYNSa-D-_8

SH2 torrent:
mega.nz/#!bYcEnbhC!rYnhvcJiRC46T6yExS0Y61JHZ-5N3WxFvfZMI8xbyhE

>SH2 PC fixes site:
widescreenfix.townofsilenthill.com/SH2/

>tl;dr how to install this shit video tutorial + bare essentials pack:
youtu.be/fFVwI487ORo

SH3 DDL:
mega.nz/#!2JNkgJ7b!nfPf5cIs6I5K-sdAs7RcnHvGA2hAvIGdpQuIoBhF3iE

SH3 torrent:
mega.nz/#!GVVGRLpD!SyklVbuLIkc38ZYji5QL3sWHKtHt9-Bto700My8pH7c

SH4 DDL:
mega.nz/#!Us1XTaII!cglH0dZOaH5yQEm4cnEh3eyUz4bIf6rACQqcVzkb4Hc

Mount the ISOs of 2 & 3, and then run their installers like always.
DON'T use W10's own virtual disc app! Don't install under C:\Program Files\ !
The SH1 is a PS1 rip that you gotta emulate.

All the info & links you'll ever need:
pastebin.com/6B3qZs4S

Follow the SH2 widescreen fix site's instructions to the teeth, and you should be fine.
For 3 & 4, check the Guide.

>Protips:
Play the games in release order, and don't play on Easy modes.
Multiple playthroughs per game is very recommended.
Lower the in-game Brightness, crank up volume.
Turning OFF flashlight helps a ton !

Attached: SH PC Guide MAY 2019 v2,3.png (1281x5183, 1.92M)

because fuckers here are trying to claim Origins made sense

>because fuckers here are trying to claim Origins made sense
Canon prequels created in consultation with the original creators have a tendency to make sense.

yeah, too bad it wasn't the case for Origins

If you think Yamaoka is any authority in terms of Silent Hill outside of music, remember that it is the same man that claimed that homecoming is different because it is the first game in which player doesnt start in Silent Hill.

bump

i liked it

You sweety.

>If you think Yamaoka is any authority in terms of Silent Hill outside of music, remember that it is the same man that claimed that homecoming is different because it is the first game in which player doesnt start in Silent Hill.
What are you talking about? When working on Origins, Barlow and the other team members talked to various former Team Silent members to ensure they were handling the lore correctly.

Origins is a near flawless prequel.

>Play the games in release order, and don't play on Easy modes.
Eh, I can't wholly agree with that. There's a case to be made for putting combat difficulty on easy.

First of all, we don't know to which extent the Origins guys talked to Team Silent, and second, it's still irrelevant when ithe game literally contradicts obvious facts in previous titles, that didn't require any explanation.

Fuck off

>the game literally contradicts obvious facts in previous titles
No it doesn't.

The PSP also has buggy audio. I remember giving up on it because I couldn't stand having one of the channels go silent on me.

Weird. I never remember audio issues with the PSP version. Definitely plausible, though. The thing is, if you didn't know better the music looping issues in the PS2 version aren't a huge problem. I've been trying the game out on PCSX2 recently.

Both Origins and Shattered Memories behave really, really weirdly in PCSX2's HW renderers. But fortunately Origins in the SW renderer is mostly fine. The game really deserves a remaster, though. For a start, it would be nice to have direct camera control instead of that typical N64-esque free movement with a z trigger to reset the view behind Travis. It's like I'm playing Indiana Jones N64.

Are Origins, Homecoming, Shattered Dimensions, and Downpour actually as bad as SH fans say?
They seem like alright games

Shattered Memories are great.
Origins and Downpour are not that bad but not really good either.
Homecoming is worse that they say.

they range from good to REALLY bad
I think the hate they get mostly comes from people that didn't actually play them and watched that series don't remember what's it called

shattered memories got hint of silent hill feel in them atlest when you explore alon and monsters arent after you,

downpour dont feel anyway silent hill game but does couple things nicely on its own

homekoming got some astetics and monster design kinda right but thats it.

No, they really aren't. Oldschool SH fans are absolutely autistic and people like Jeremy Blaustein, who wrote all the dialogue they love quoting, got tired of their shit years ago.

Origins and Shattered Memories are two excellent titles by British developer Climax. Very different approaches to Silent Hill. Origins is a reasonably faithful prequel to SH1. Shattered Memories is a faux-remake that is highly experimental and leans towards being a walking sim.

Homecoming, I haven't actually played. Its dev team was America. Double Helix. They didn't really understand Silent Hill and kept wanting to do a lot of dumb stuff that producer Tomm Hulett had to keep using his thimbleful of power to veto. However, it is far from a terrible game. A lot of SH fans got angry at the game for being too combat focused and being too influenced by the Silent Hill movies that they predictably hate because not muh Silent Hill. Parallels to Tomb Raider fans who hate Legend/Anniversary/Underworld for being influenced by the Jolie TR movies.

Downpour was by a Czech team called Vatra. Game is kinda like a proto-The Evil Within 2. Had some severe production issues. The game's visual design and music are excellent. It's kinda spectacle horror. The game really leans into the visual design of water as a key visual element. (It is called Downpour.) Don't play the game on 360 or PS3. Performance is absolutely horrific. Xbox One is a decent option. RPCS3 is another, although compatibility has been in a flux of late. It used to work well, but I can't guarantee that's still true. Also, Downpour has passably good combat controls which is in contrast to basically every other Silent Hill which have dogshit-to-not-very-good controls.

Silent Hill Origins is a forgetable regurgitated game (it's not bad, but it's not good). So much so it's the only game I barely remember what it was about. I remember SH1, 2 and 3 perfectly fine. I have some memory holes in The Room but overall I remember what the game was about.
SHO is the last SH I played yet I only remember Travis was driving a truck or something, that it was a prequel and that you could unlock costumes and some mittens that allowed you to 1hit kill anything.

So Kaufmann didn't care about the town turning into hell, but 7 years later he had a change of mind?
and the Flauros not only repels evil but it also holds it?

Anyone planning on playing Homecoming should know that the PC version has a fan patch that fixes a SHITLOAD of problems. pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Silent_Hill:_Homecoming A dumpster fire PC port becomes something pretty decent.

i had no idea either of those games were ported to regular consoles

If the story doesn't make sense, then it isn't the fans' fault
Only people who never understood the first three games can actually take the new ones serious... It's really that simple

Actually play Homecoming and then tell me if one things outside of music that is good about the game. Even the performance is horrible and game constantly crashes.
Downpour has mostly good music but can't forgive and forget shit like Korn.

>Origins
Bad Story, alright everything else. I wouldn't hate the story so much if it didn't retcon Alessa into a manipulative brat to match the movie version instead of a depressed victim like she was in SH1.
>Shattered Memories
Amazing story, maybe my favorite story in any SH game. Everything else is meh. Gameplay is extremely simplified, but it's not like SH ever had amazing gameplay.
>Downpour
Unimagined and soulless, but not bad, just not a very good SH game. Best gameplay in the series I guess, but still not very good.
>Homecoming
I liked it, but it's not very good. I won't go too much into detail as I'm sure you've heard why people hate it.

>and the Flauros not only repels evil but it also holds it?
In mythology, Flauros is a deceiving demon that will only speak the truth if placed in a triangle configuration. The device in Silent Hill isn't some anti-evil device. That's just a lie that Dahlia tells harry. It was meant to interfere with Alessa's powers in Silent Hill. In Origins, using the device and then dismantling it allows Dahlia to hinder Alessa.

>So Kaufmann didn't care about the town turning into hell
What did Kaufmann actually witness in Origins? The town didn't go to shit until Silent Hill. The events of Origins are more of a localized event. You're downstairs at the hospital on the other side of the mirror, and he's upstairs chilling. That's why he's so unconcerned when you meet him in Origins. You're wandering around in a bizarre mist, but there's no indication he saw any of that. Most of the Otherside stuff is specifically between Alessa and Travis. Nobody else is a part of it for the most part.

>If the story doesn't make sense, then it isn't the fans' fault
You say that as though thousands of Silent Hill fans don't cling to absolutely retarded fan theories spread by groups such as Twin Perfect which have been refuted by the original developers and people with functional eyes.
>Only people who never understood the first three games can actually take the new ones serious.
Climax intimately understood the first three games.

>Even the performance is horrible and game constantly crashes.
The PC version has fan patches that massively improve it.
>Downpour has mostly good music but can't forgive and forget shit like Korn.
What's wrong with Korn?

Downpour always looked interesting to me as a new take on classic semi-open SH gameplay, with its more abundant use of NPCs and side quests, but I never played it myself even though I own a PS3 - the performance just looks so shit. Additionally, monsters look bland as fuck and the character writing seems whatever, but maybe I've just seen too little of it.
Homecoming, however, was straight up garbage. Ugly grey and brown artstyle, awful writing, laughable atmosphere (ooooh, look at the kid that stays there silently and then disappears for the millionth time, how spooky and f o r e s h a d o w y).
All in all, fuck western devs and fuck niggers.

>I wouldn't hate the story so much if it didn't retcon Alessa into a manipulative brat to match the movie version
How is Origins Alessa a "manipulative brat"? In Origins, Alessa had JUST been burned to a crisp. She used psychic projections to get Travis to help her regain her powers. What part of that makes her a "brat"?

Sometimes I've noticed about Origins is people act suprised that characters behave differently with a time gap of several years. Alessa in Origins is not really the same person as Alessa in Silent Hill 1. Seven years of suffering will change a person. The Alessa in Silent Hill has come to terms with her situation and formulated a plan that will allow her to die. The Alessa in Origins is a little girl in torment manipulating a man who is GODDAMN SERIAL KILLER into helping her.

>fuck niggers.
Racist opinion discarded. Why are so many weebs such massive racists, anyway?

>How is Origins Alessa a "manipulative brat"? In Origins, Alessa had JUST been burned to a crisp.
Seriously. When Alessa appears on the road in front of Travis, she is literally ON FIRE INSIDE THE HOUSE THAT IS ALSO ON FIRE. This little girl is experiencing hellish agony, being kept alive through supernatural means, and people wonder why she's unstable and broody when she initially appears.

You know I was being sarcastic, right?
The flauros breaks through Alessa's power in SH1, in Origins the thing contains her power somehow, has to do with her soul and the demon comes as a boss fight. That isn't the same artifact.

He is literally in front of you at the ending, looking at the crap that's happening after thyou kill the demon

Fan theories? it's in the fucking games. Theories are what you fuckers that claim that Origin makes sense are doing in order to make some sense out of it, and it's still impossible. When did any of the Team Sient refute Twin Perfect?
>Climax intimately understood the first three games.
The mess they did as a game shows they didn't

I played it for like 10 minutes at a buddy's house, from what I remember it felt like a classic Silent Hill

>He is literally in front of you at the ending, looking at the crap that's happening after you kill the demon
I'd need to check the game again, but was this a pre-rendered cutscene by any chance? Because Climax got trapped because Climax LA had created pre-rendered cutscenes for a completely different story, and Konami forced them to include them somehow. So they did their best to massage them into something that would fit the new plot by Barlow using new voicovers and such. It's a bit like System Shock 2 in that regard. They ended up with an ending they weren't happy with because they were forced to use FMVs that didn't fit.
>The flauros breaks through Alessa's power in SH1, in Origins the thing contains her power somehow, has to do with her soul and the demon comes as a boss fight. That isn't the same artifact.
No, that is the same Flauros. The fact it has a demon inside it is kind of important, because Flauros IS a demon.
>Fan theories? it's in the fucking games.
It really isn't. That's the problem. Twin Perfect were wrong about basic facts over and over again. Their insistence that Alessa was burned accidentally when it's blindingly obvious she was burned intentionally and literally every piece of associated lore points to her being burned intentionally was the moment when a lot of people realised how full of shit Twin Perfect were.

Who the fuck are Twin Perfect?

>He is literally in front of you at the ending, looking at the crap that's happening after thyou kill the demon
The stuff with the demon down in the ritual chamber was nothing compared to Silent Hill's town covered in fog with monsters roaming everywhere. AFAIK, Kaufmann never saw that in Origins.

One can argue Kaufmann in SH1 is lying to Harry. He is the man who meets Travis in Origins and immediately lies that he doesn't know where the crispy 7 year old is, so it's not impossible that SH1 Kaufmann knows certain things but he plays dumb for Harry's benefit.

However, it's possible he isn't lying. The events at the end of SH Origins are scary, but very brief. And they didn't involve the kind of crazy shit that took over Silent Hill in SH.

The other option is the awkward disconnect between Origins and its FMVs. There's a reason the ending of SH Origins feels a bit odd. It comes from a game by a different studio. They had to make it fit. This is the root of most of SH Origins' issues. They had to do what they could in the constraints they were given.

Twin Perfect are a group of youtubers behind a series called The Real Silent Hill experience. They were okay in the early days, but they become more and more toxic over time and eventually they fostered a fanbase that accepted their theories as the word of God, and they are heavily responsible for the hate and harassment of the Silent Hill fanbase.

A lot of SH fans who hate the "western" games typically parrot arguments from Twin Perfect verbatim. This is the group that refused to play Downpour because they hated it, then asked for donations to make a video about Downpour -- a game they'd decided ahead of time that they hated.

Their toxic bullshit ruined Silent Hill, to be frank.

>but was this a pre-rendered cutscene by any chance?
Yes, I'm sure it's the last cutscene before the ending, when the members of the cult run away and Kaufmann stands there looking at you and the dead demon a few feet in front of him. However, in SH1, he tells Harry that he has never seen anything like that, that monsters like those supposedly don't exist, and that he just took a nap and suddenly people disappeared. I know he could be lying, but it doesn't sound likely since you find him sitting with a gun, completely nervous and terryified, and he is the one that throws the Aglaophotis to Alessa at the end.
>The fact it has a demon inside it is kind of important, because Flauros IS a demon.
Yes, I know Flauros is a demon, but it just doesn't make sense that the artifact serves as a "psychic blocker" of some sort, as in SH1, and it also holds the demon inside, which somehow makes Alessa's soul to be spit in two... it just doesn't make sense and is the opposite of what's been shown in 1
>Twin Perfect were wrong about basic facts over and over again
Maybe, but I can't find a lot of arguments against them. A lot of people claiming they were wrong were refuted several times as well, and again, the thing about Alessa burning is that the cult needed her alive in order to give birth to the demon in her womb. I highly doubt they would inflict physical pain through fire, which is extremely lethal and uncontrollable. Dahlia could have tortured her by other means. Fire is always present in rituals, and TS only said that the ritual "involved" fire. Not that she needed to be burnt.

What is it about the Silent Hill franchise that attracts autists?

Looking at all this artwork makes me wish there was a The Suffering 3.

Attached: I dont need it.jpg (500x349, 17K)

Yes, Kaufmann can't be trusted, but in SH1 he claims that "monsters like that don't exist, right?" which wouldn't make sense if he saw the Flauros before. and that he's worried seems true since he is the one that sorta ends the nightmare. He lies to you a bit in SH1, but his concerns were real.

>The weird thing about Origins is how many Silent Hill fans seemingly ignored it because it was a PSP game.

Hurr. That is not the reason why it was ignored. It was obviously a shit project from the get-go (the early concept art looked positively retarded and bland) and nobody appreciated the story being redone by a bunch of amateurs in order to sell a half-baked and overpriced handheld system.

>There's a case to be made for putting combat difficulty on easy.
Even Easy is better than the "Beginner", which literally makes you invincible against 99% of all the games' threats.
That being said, you miss a lot the games' content and feeling of threat if you play on low difficulties.

SH:SM is good. Not a survival-horror game, but a fascinating experience.
All the rest are just pure garbage.

>Homecoming is worse that they say.
You got that wrong. HC is the most TOLERABLE game of the shitty three.
Downpoor is irredeemable garbage, and 0rigins is a clunky as fuck lore-rape.

yeah I know
remember when thegamingbritshow or whatever his channel is called criticised p.t for not being like the older silent hills? But for some reason he thinks its ok when RE radically changes its formula on multiple occasions

>and 0rigins is a clunky as fuck lore-rape
It's not.
kys

I can't remember much of Origins unfortunately, but Kaufmann was clearly duplicitous from the word go in SH1. He was in up to his nuts in cult business.
Dahlia was promising paradise on earth and he was helping bring this about for motives never explained. But the ritual doesn't go entirely to plan, then they have to wait years for Cheryl to return and when she does, Dahlia's "paradise" turns into a nightmare.
Kaufmann wasn't expected any of what happened to have happened, and any idea of monsters and demons was likely dismissed by him as irrational hokey cult shit.
But then when presented with the horrible truth of his new reality he rebels and attacks the demon alessa.

Now, in origins, AFAIK he only directly witnesses some spooky shit, the Flauros (which he knows is important to the ritual but probably doesn't entirely believe the whole "demons" thing) and he sees the dead final boss (which is either shoehorned FMV and should be largely ignored, OR if you saw a humanoid body on the ground outside your house on a foggy day would you assume dead demon or dead human? Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.)
This is why religion gets so many people arguing over nuance. There's always a different way to see events that should be black and white.

It absolutely, undeniably is.
The gameplay is garbage. The visual design is shit. The story is beyond terrible, and all the stuff related to SH1 make absolutely no sense whatsoever, thus ruining the lore of the whole original trilogy.
There is no redeeming aspects in 0rigins, whatsoever.

lmfao

But no, fuck that. Nothing is canon after 4.

In Origins, Kaufmann sees the whole process of Flauros dying in front of him, and a huge red beam coming out of Alessa's womb, which is why all the other cult members run away.
It's obvious that Kaufmann was there for economic reasons and he never believed that "paradise" thing. He was the one giving the cult the drug they used to attract the tourists. The point is, even if he knew he was partially responsible for what was happening, he could never imagine that the stuff the cult was preaching was actually real and that the world would turn into hell. If what happened in Origins was true, then his reaction to the events in SH1 is completely irrational.

Nothing draws them in quite like series with extensive LORE. It's all about the LORE, you see.

>The gameplay is garbage
Compared to 1-4 how?

would you play a game like your favorite SH 1-4 if it had the same controls but shitty visual design, terrible story and it made no sense canonically?

The visual design of Origins is pretty good. Some of the environments are exquisite. And the soundtrack is pure kino.

Also, the story is very good and tries very hard to avoid breaking canon despite some awkward stuff outside the dev's control.

In every possible way. What are you on?
The controls are ass. The combat is clunky and hilarious. Enemies can snipe-shot you across the street, and lock you down into QTE choke holds. You are in control of the world transitions, that eats up the tension completely.

>Also, the story is very good
I don't say this lightly, but you are an absolute idiot.

>And Shattered Memories was even better.

HAHHAAHHHAHA IT WAS ALL IN YOUR HEAD DUDE LMAOOOO HAHAHAHHAHA FUCK HAHAHAHAAHAA

>the story is very good and tries very hard to avoid breaking canon

Attached: IMP.jpg (560x560, 26K)

>The visual design of Origins is pretty good.
It really is not. It is literally just recycling The Movie's shit, succumbing down to some of the most generic cliches whenever it tries to be "original", ie the dolls. Hell, one of the enemies is a LITERAL PH clone, and we got James' sexy nurses... because ?

>story is very good.
No, it absolutely is not.
The Travis' own wannabe sob story is a pathetic, unneeded flavor text. He has no reason to be in the town, he has not "forgotten" anything, his past is just artificially kept secret from the player.

>tries very hard to avoid breaking canon
Except it breaks it from the very first minute forward, and keeps digging its grave deeper with every new setpiece. Somehow, Alessa is already "ghosting" around, before being split up and hospitalized, a decade before SH1. And she does this no matter that she asks to be left to die.
Then she re-appears again and again, even to hold her own baby half later on.
And what about the fact that the fire was originally an accident, not part of the ritual ? Or how all the characters act totally out of character and are just "there"?

I could go on. The plot is a trainwreck.

>Somehow, Alessa is already "ghosting" around, before being split up and hospitalized, a decade before SH1

>He's never seen end of EVA

>The controls are ass. The combat is clunky and hilarious.
Welcome to Silent Hill. Origins was designed to pander to old school RE fans. That's why Climax scrapped the RE4-inspired gameplay Climax LA had been going for and redesigned the gameplay to be like SH2. For the fans.
>I don't say this lightly, but you are an absolute idiot.
Origins is better written than the original Silent Hill. Deal with it. Barlow is a very good writer. Shattered Memories proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

>HAHHAAHHHAHA IT WAS ALL IN YOUR HEAD DUDE
No it wasn't. Harry Mason interacted with people in the real world. He phased in and out of existence. It's fairly clear that Harry was a figment of Cheryl's imagination, but Silent Hill made him at least partially real.

HAHAAHHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAAA

>and we got James' sexy nurses... because ?
Maybe because Travis is a serial killer who mutilates women and is disgusted by their sexuality?

shit bait

Attached: stank.png (407x367, 253K)

>Except it breaks it from the very first minute forward, and keeps digging its grave deeper with every new setpiece. Somehow, Alessa is already "ghosting" around, before being split up and hospitalized, a decade before SH1.
I for one am shocked that the character chosen for the ritual due to her immense psychic powers proved capable of astrally projecting to ask a passing serial killer for help.

Barlow is pretty much universally regarded as a fantastic writer. Have you played Her Story?

>>He's never seen end of EVA
I have. Most likely long before majority of nu-Yea Forums were even able to talk.

>Origins is better written than the original Silent Hill. Deal with it.
It literally is not. It's writing is lazy, dialog flat and liveless, and the plot is full of consistency and plot-holes, that only demonstrate severe lack of understanding the series' history and lore.

>It's writing is lazy, dialog flat and liveless, and the plot is full of consistency and plot-holes, that only demonstrate severe lack of understanding the series' history and lore.
How exactly does the game demonstrate a severe lack of understanding?

This is a game where the opening and closing cutscenes were made by a different company and Konami wouldn't let Climax redo them. So they had to keep them. Between those two scenes which they attempted to fix as best they could with some new voicovers. Climax crafted a prequel to Silent Hill that looks like Silent Hill, plays like Silent Hill, and tells a story that fits very well with the events of Silent Hill. All prequels have niggles. But Origins is a game where the devs clearly did their research. The fact they realised Alessa was set on fire intentionally when so many idiot fanboys insist it was an accident is proof of that.

>agressive weeb fags in full rage mode
Boring.

It's fucking trash

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Dude, who the fuck cares if they had problems, the final product is shit
It's like taking a fart and claiming that it doesn't smell that bad, it's just that you ate rotten food

>How exactly does the game demonstrate a severe lack of understanding?
I don't know if you're just fooling around now, or literally a flaming retard.
The game breaks every single rule the SH1-3 set up, and loves to suck up the Movie's dick.

>This is a game where the opening and closing cutscenes were made by a different company and Konami wouldn't let Climax redo them
Who gives a fuck? The whole game is full of major fuckups. It does not matter if the studio couldn't touch intro and finale, it just makes the whole project even more embarrassing.
Also, I'd love to see a citation.

>Climax crafted a prequel to Silent Hill that looks like Silent Hill, plays like Silent Hill, and tells a story that fits very well
It does none of those things. Clearly you have never played a single SH game before. Or if you claim to have, you clearly didn't understand jack shit.

>Also, I'd love to see a citation.
nodontdie.com/sam-barlow
>The game breaks every single rule the SH1-3 set up
Such as?

>the final product is shit
Yet it's better than Silent Hill 1/2/3/4. But I guess standards were low.

well, it's been fun, but this thread got full of shitty bait, sage pls

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>Such as?

-Projected "Alessa" fooling around the town BEFORE her souls' split.

-Projected "Alessa" leaving the baby Cheryl (her other half) to the side of the road, while her body (third Alessa?) lies in coma.

-the MAGICAL "Otherworld" existing behind mirrors now, BEFORE Alessa's two halves meet again.

-the "otherworld" is now literally the "other dimension" copy of our world, instead of an "invading force" taking over our world, spread by Alessa to actually trap the evil demon/god thing residing inside her.

-Origins makes it look like Dahlia wanted to burn her daughter as a part of the ritual. In reality the fire that destroyed the house, burned Alessa, split her soul and left her lie in coma for years was an accident, caused by Alessa's sudden burst of mental powers exploding the building's boiler. In none of the original games does a fire play a major role in the ceremony to give birth to god.

...just from the top of my head. I bet I'm forgetting something here.

My little user can't be this big b8

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I don't know how anyone can like them. Origins and Shattered Memories seem okay at the most but the rest of the western ones are awful and none of the western ones hold a candle to the Japanese games. 1-3 are masterpieces in a way few games are.

>1-3 are masterpieces in a way few games are
This. These games are filled with creativity and unique flavor that make them fucking classic. Comparing them to Western installments that are "meh, it's okay I guess" at BEST (Downpour, imo) is retarded.
youtube.com/watch?v=RCJ8qeMiQac

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>-Projected "Alessa" fooling around the town BEFORE her souls' split.
Not an issue. She's a powerful psychic.
>-the MAGICAL "Otherworld" existing behind mirrors now, BEFORE Alessa's two halves meet again.
Not an issue. It was always there, just dormant. People have vanished in Silent Hill in the past.
>-Origins makes it look like Dahlia wanted to burn her daughter as a part of the ritual.
Because that's literally what she did.
>In none of the original games does a fire play a major role in the ceremony to give birth to god.
Silent Hill 3 literally says that her mother burned her as a sacrifice, but sure. The cult that worships a sun god just happened to accidentally burn a girl in a ritual designed to cause immense torment. Let's just go with that.

Oh, BTW, the game's director was asked on twitter and he said that the fire wasn't an accident as far as he remembers. Not that anyone doubts this because literally every reference to the ritual in the official guide books talks about how it involved fire.

Q: What was the cause of the fire that broke out seven years ago?

A: A ritual that Dahlia performed using Alessa.

Dahlia originally thought that Alessa would follow in her own footsteps as a spiritualistic medium for the cult, but realized that the ritual would be far more likely to succeed if she used her as the surrogate mother to bring about the descent of the cult's god. And so seven years ago, Dahlia performed the technique to bring about the descent of the cult's god using Alessa in the cellar of her own house. Although it seems the cult has a place they use for rituals, Dahlia was confident that she would be able to summon the malevolent deity if Alessa was the surrogate mother; therefore, as it was not necessary to choose a location, she impulsively carried out the ritual in her own basement. The ritual process involved a great deal of fire, which consequently escalated into a conflagration. Incidentally, there is information in the game about "six houses that burned down in the business district," but the actual site of the fire can't be located on the business district map. It seems the houses were completely torn down during those seven years.

silenthillmemories.net/sh1/articles/sh1_official_guide_qa_en.htm

>wasn't metal gear survive a commercial success?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Whew. No.

The Lisa Garland in Silent Hill 1 is not the real Lisa. She is Alessa's memory of the woman made manifest. This is why she has massive gaps in her memory and has a slurred personality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Origins Lisa. It's almost like Silent Hill fans don't understand character development. The whole point of Lisa Origins is discovering the real person who was a drug-addled slut that took part in a conspiracy to keep a burnt girl in constant torment for 7 years, instead of the false version that seemed kinda nice.

*sigh*
again with that guide wrote by some random jap
>BUT WAIT IT HAS THE KONAMI LOGO

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I never went past SH3 when playing and replaying the series, should I give 4 a chance? I'm put off by people saying it has bad backtracking and escort moments.

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>character development
I'll make a shittier version of your post, it's called "argument development"
how Lisa was in reality is never explained, Climax just pulled that slutty Lisa out of their asses, because sluts are more typical in shitty American horror movies for some reason

The Silent Hill Book of Lost Memories (the official goddang lore book) states:

"She conducts a ritual to bring about the coming of the cult's God, inflicting extensive life-threatening burns upon her." and "the cause of the fire was a ritual that Dahlia conducted using her daughter Alessa in order to bring about the coming of the god."

Harry's notebook in SH3 states:

"that was the young woman burned by her mother as a sacrifice to God... Alessa Gillespie."

In Silent Hill 3, you find the Book of Lost Memories, with the following passage:

In another sacrificial rite mentioned in the same book, the victim is burned alive. This was a more dignified ceremony in which prisoners and sinners were not allowed to participate. Only the clergy could be sacrificed. Similar to burning at the stake, no comparable rite can be found in religions practiced nearby. It may have some connection with the main deity being a sun god.

>how Lisa was in reality is never explained, Climax just pulled that slutty Lisa out of their asses, because sluts are more typical in shitty American horror movies for some reason
Silent Hill is an unoriginal mishmash of British and American horror sources. "Waagh, too American" is a lousy argument to use for freaking Silent Hill.

>The Silent Hill Book of Lost Memories (the official goddang lore book) states
Not him, but it is >released as an addendum to the official Konami Silent Hill 3 Game Guide
So you're only supplying some more of the same "some Japanese guy at Konami wrote a guide" tier "lore"

Stop arguing with him, it's pointless.
These braindead weebs will deny everything.

I liked that gigantic monster on the left. Extremely tall or big enemies were always the scariest ones but unfortunately most of them were bosses. The Closer enemy and Leonard are still peak horror to me.

>how Lisa was in reality is never explained, Climax just pulled that slutty Lisa out of their asses, because sluts are more typical in shitty American horror movies for some reason
Lisa being addicted to drugs peddled by Kaufmann was established in the original game.

I've already explained the thing about "official guide books" and why it makes sense that Harry wrote the events that way in the notebook. It's the vision of a guy who sees a ritual that ended in the little girl burning, caused in any way by her mother.

>In Silent Hill 3, you find the Book of Lost Memories
Yes, and it only talks about sacrifices to the God, not this only and one time attempt to actually impregnate a psychic girl with the seed of the God

They were based on respectable classic horror sources, thriller writters and 80's movies. I was obviously talking about more recent shitty films, and you know what I'm talking about, don't dodge the fucking bullet

>They were based on respectable classic horror sources, thriller writters and 80's movies. I was obviously talking about more recent shitty films, and you know what I'm talking about, don't dodge the fucking bullet
The original Silent Hill features a sexy nurse who is a drug addict. For some reason, weebs are triggered by the idea of her having sex in order to obtain these drugs.

I wasn't talking about her addiction, and it was never even hinted that she had sex with Kaufmann or that she had that slutty personality
There's only ONE 2 seconds cutscene where they seem to be fighting about something, and that's it

>slutty personality
She is on drugs.

>Yes, and it only talks about sacrifices to the God, not this only and one time attempt to actually impregnate a psychic girl with the seed of the God
It firmly establishes that the cult which worships a giant ball of fire in the sky, has an affinity for burning people alive in their rituals.

You do realise that the whole idea of the boiler explosion that fans extrapolate this dumb theory from comes from a blatantly falsified report which claims Alissa died, right?

The fire was not some accident. It was a ritual where Alessa was burned, and it went wrong because the house burned down. But it also worked, since she became immortal.

The newspaper omits all the compromising details about the conspiracy to hide a mutilated girl inside a local hospital and gives a convenient explanation as to why the house burned down.

>I wasn't talking about her addiction, and it was never even hinted that she had sex with Kaufmann or that she had that slutty personality
Do you know what happens to people addicted to drugs who will do anything to get their fix?

I'm not triggered by it, what bothers me is the fact that none of that was actually implied
>The original Silent Hill features a sexy nurse who is a drug addict
She is never depicted as a slut, and defining her as a "drug addict" is kinda tendentious since that wasn't her most important trait

So your answer to everything is "that's how it always was! :^)", ignoring all the evidence and rules set by past games.

>official guide book
written by a third party morons with nothing to do with the creation of the games.

I'm biased towards it because it was my first Silent Hill, but I really enjoyed the game, at least until the late game when you have way too many weapon options.
And even if it didn't have Team Silent behind it, it still had Akira Yamaoka composing, so that was a big bonus.
Another thing Origins handled considerably well, respecting the lore, is all the foreskin mutilation imagery, which I guess being developed in America had a big influence in it.

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>So your answer to everything is "that's how it always was! :^)", ignoring all the evidence and rules set by past games.
It's very easy to handwave. Alessa is impregnated and in the hospital. Travis wakes up in the fog. You could easily argue that Alessa is already affecting Silent Hill and her connection to Travis is amplifying it.

But what about the start of the game where you run through "fog"? Easy answer. It's not fog. It's smoke from the burning house. Travis even comments on this.

Travis's mother believed that there was a secret world behind mirrors filled with demons. This is why Travis crosses over into otherside using Mirrors and only mirrors. It could be argued that Travis's otherside is not the same one as seen in Silent Hill 1. It is rooted in his past. Travis can voluntarily shift between realities at will, which no other character in the series can do.

>It firmly establishes that the cult which worships a giant ball of fire in the sky, has an affinity for burning people alive in their rituals.
This wasn't a sacrifice. This was the actual, physical impregnation of the God in a psychic child. This was never a common practice, and it never happened as far as we know. Also, the cult depicted in the first SH is never said to praise the sun, and if it is, it doesn't really mean anything, anyway.

>falsified report
it's from a newspaper article, and in no way it hints falsification of some sort. In the same newspaper there's some info about PTV. YOUR idea that there was an altered report comes from Origins.

>But it also worked, since she became immortal
She is NOT immortal, in fact she dies later on. She has been kept alive with magic, but still needed to be supervised by someone to be sure she could make it.

>The newspaper omits all the compromising details about the conspiracy to hide a mutilated girl inside a local hospital and gives a convenient explanation as to why the house burned down.
Too bad they forgot to delete all that info about the drugs, huh

>Travis can voluntarily shift between realities at will, which no other character in the series can do.
Alessa gave him this power of her to obtain the Flauros via painful memories.
And you can see plenty of resemblance between Travis and Valtiel.

... Dozens of malls in 3? Okay then.

>all drug addicts are sluts

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Imbecile.

I remember the whole shitshow but I don't remember what she had to do with it. What did she do?

Didn't she blame the original voice actors for the re-recording of the voices, even if they've already planned on doing so?
Also, she was on Konami's side in that fight about ownership rights, royalties and residuals... being a VA herself, that kinda makes her a cunt by default

The newpaper article has a conspicuous lie right in the middle. Alessa did not die. It is a fabrication designed to hide the truth. Origins did not make that up.

Alessa is immortal until the end of SH1. She wants to die, but she can't.

Was he right?
youtube.com/watch?v=VS26wbFePSk

Why would they delete info about drugs? The drug thing is public knowledge. The source isn't. The public in Silent Hill knows about the drugs. The public is fed a false story about the house burning down and the girl's body being found. (Meaning she was found dead, a convenient lie since she is alive and hidden.) The newpaper article is proof that the cult control the media, or at least media sources.

>youtubers
Fuck off.

faggot

If the police found a body, where are they gonna send it? in a small town like this it obviously goes to the hospital, which conveniently is property of Kaufmann
Alessa is NOT immortal. They are keeping her alive at the hospital for a reason. She still needs care with the help of black magic, which is what doesn't allow her to die.
If they could hide it, they would, the article also says the causes of the fire are still under investigation... why wouldn't they say that they knew it was a boiler exposion?

Yes and no. The demon is keeping Alessa alive primarily. Dahlia additionally cast a spell on her, but it's highly dubious the demon would have let her die regardless.

Alessa is effectively immortal after the ritual which is how she can have fatal burns over her body but not die like a normal human would.

The real Alessa was not dead. The story of her body being found is bunk. (Body = dead). IIRC the canon is that Kaufmann placed another body on the property and asserted it was Alessa as part of the conspiracy.

Point is, the cult hid the real events. What's the report SUPPOSED to say? There was a black magic ritual in the house yet investigators found nothing blamed it on an exploding boiler.

There is no evidence Alessa caused a boiler explosion by accident. Plenty of evidence she was burned to make her suffer as part of a fire-obsessed cult's rite.

The demon is still a seed at that point, I highly doubt it has any power to keep her alive. If she dies, the demon dies too, this is why they keep her with magic. And as I said, she still dies at the end. Maybe the spell kept the recipient of the demon alive? that was never clarified. The only thing that is certain is that Alessa was kept alive by some unknown force and, the fire was an accident even though the ritual involved fire and the article explains it was a boiler explosion. It isn't hinted anywhere that it was altered, other than Origins.

>IIRC the canon is that Kaufmann placed another body on the property and asserted it was Alessa as part of the conspiracy.
??? where did that come from?
>Point is, the cult hid the real events
I'm guessing you are basing that on the newspaper, which is the only source of info regarding the fire.
>What's the report SUPPOSED to say?
Exactly what it says, that the causes of the fire are unknown but evidence suggests the boiler exploded
How would police know there was a black magic ritual? and why would it care?
>There is no evidence Alessa caused a boiler explosion by accident
There is no actual evidence they burned Alessa to impregnate her.
>Plenty of evidence she was burned to make her suffer as part of a fire-obsessed cult's rite.
fire-obsessed? what? that thing about burning sacrifices has nothing to do with the fucking impregnation of the God

>Whining about canon is the worst thing the internet has done to the world of fiction.

I would normally agree with this statement. If you weren't talking about Kojima.

His handling of his own canon is the least of his problems as a writer. He just fucks up at pretty much every turn since he lost his original writing team and started writing all by himself.

You are fucking idiot. Consider suicide as an option.

I loved Origins, it's amazing for a portable game from over a decade ago.

Nanomachines were a thing all the back in MGS 1, user. The idea behind them in 4 was that there were now newer, more advanced generations of nanomachines phasing out the older ones.

>Travis is very likely a serial killer. Origins is filled with subtle and not so subtle hints that point towards his disgust towards women, his mother issues, and his duality of being. It's no accident that he walks into the women's bathroom and touches the mirror to enter Otherside.

I played the game when was released but if i noticed that I already forgot abut it.

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>west cuck silent hill games
>good
kill yourself

Heather is a cutie

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What's the best version of Origins?
PSP or PS2?

PS2.

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But she is though

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YOU CAN TALK YOU CAN TALK YOU CAN TALK

maybe he meant she wasn't "cute" in the sense of that soft childish look, like a kitten, and that she is more of the "cool" kind? like less kawaii and more bijin

you're pretty based, OP. It was my favourite too.
I remember playing this shit alot as a 14 year old. I miss all the soul.

Yeah but they did nothing with it.
>be Travis
>hate your mother, hate women
>potentionally rape and kill few or them
>help one little girl
>ok guys, i paid my debt to society, i am a good guy now

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bump dont let this thread die

The thread needs more Heather

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>help one little girl
>go back to murdering women
Good ending honestly

Here you go senpai.

> They consulted with former Team Silent people and were given to Konami's Silent Hill story documentation
I never played it, skimmed some videos just to see if this had any substance. It actually feels like a genuine Silent hill game. More so than the most recent releases. It's a shame it was overlooked due to the studio.

>It made Climax feel really bad because they had worked incredibly hard on what was, in their own words, a poisoned chalice, and people were looking for reasons to hate their work because they were British people instead of Japanese people.
I wiki'd Climax studios most recent output and it all VR games. That's kinda sad.

>Also in Origins, Lisa acts out of character.
>he never read the diary
lmao go back and play the first Silent Hill before posting

I am not saying that she wasn't selling herself for drugs to Kaufmann. But being slut wasn't really in her character. Eg.
>fuck me, Travis
>haha just kidding
>I can be a star
That is not her, is it?

>underappreciated
>fucks up the lore
no

Kaufmann doesn't remember Alessa unleashing the nightmare on town or is completely retarded.

She is high in that scene.

No seriously, what is this "Travis was a serial killer" shit?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=IfROpx0ug1c