ITT: characters that were mistreated and potentially ruined by their apparition in games outside of their series

Smash also did a number on Samus and Ridley is shit too.

The people at R&D-1 must have bullied Sakurai back in the day because this is seriously starting to look like a grudge.

>apparition

Wario has ghosts or something? Better call the spirit detective.

How so? The Dash Attack is a running tackle as is Shoulder Bash. Being Forward Smash in the first place was retarded
I can understand wanting it to be Forward Special, but wanting it to be Forward Smash again?

>Miyamoto even said they did not include him in NSMBU because of the image Smash has created for him.
That's hilarious, saddening, and angering.

I'm going to need a big fat source on that one

>instead of showcasing what he is in Wario Land and WarioWare
What the hell do you mean? Did you watch any of the cutscenes in WarioWare, especially Touched and Twisted? He literally gets sick from eating garlic he knows is rotten but doesn't give a shit. He's been a fat slovenly bastard long before Smash. Also here's some Wario Land art where he's being a gross fuck.

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>Miyamoto even said they did not include him in NSMBU because of the image Smash has created for him

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Ridley's designs and all of his alts are 10/10 at least, even if his moveset could be better. Samus STILL having her garbage OM suit is fucking unforgivable though.

That's not his exact reasoning. He said Wario and Peach would have to have gimmicks like farting or flating but he wanted to have all the characters play identically. It's more a problem with him trying to create a boring, homogeneous experience with NSMB rather than the character's fault.

most characters in smash, honestly

Miyamoto is also the reason Retro wasn't allowed to use K. Rool in the DKCR games, just because he has some stupid hateboner for Rare.

I fucking hate the Metroid-Smash fans
You fucks didn't give a shit when brawl came out 8 years after Prime and didn't use the suit, but now that SR came out a Y E A R before Smash and probably started development way after, you're having a melt down because she doesn't use that one

That false retard, get that Miyamoto boogeyman out of your head
The Devs behind the new DK games didn't want to use to him so they could provide a fresh experience. Miyamoto also didn't say shit about the original DK games either, btw

PROTEIN PROTEIN PROTEIN
People didn't have a problem with the Metroid Super suit in Brawl because it doesn't look like shit and is from a good game.

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I'm angry at Metroid's treatment as a whole, and how it's nothing more than retarded, disgusting sex fanservice. The actual game is just a sidenote for weeb fap fuel shit, and it forever pisses me off. Samus should've never left her suit, and she should've never been sexualized to begin with.

i remember a great deal of renders of wario from mario sports/party games and wario world had him depicted as pretty disgusting. i don't know why giving him a fart causes people to go into seething rage.

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It's still fucking hypocritical because they never just say they hate the suit, they say she should've had the SR one specifically.
Complain about on or the other, the suit being ugly or not updating it to the SR one, but if you complain about both, and also ignore the same happened in Brawl, you need to shut your fucking mouth

You are now realizing that the reason why the Wario Land games were good is because Miyamoto had no involvement with them whatsoever.

I just want Nintendo to permanently ignore Other M and remove every single trace of it from existence. AND I want them to blacklist Team Ninja from ever making a Switch game ever again. Someone has to fucking suffer for that horrific abomination.

Issue is not the fart, it's limiting him to that. I need a new Wario Land that builds upon the Fujiko-like dynamic of Captain Syrup yesterday

He never said it was because of how he was in Smash, it was ebcause everyone had to have the same basic control schemes.
This was thrown out in NSLU with Nabbit and NSBUD with Peahette, but it was still true for the base game

The chimpout over DOA6 was pretty funny because all that game did was try to dial things back to how they were in DOA3.

Team Ninja are the only ones to have put Other M in the memory hole where it belongs. They haven't made a single mention of it in nearly a decade. It's Nintendo themselves that keeps bringing it up.

>just a meme fart man
everyone who ever uses the phrase "fart man" is just a parroting idiot with contrived opinions they read online.

I read that interview. He specifically brought up a fart attack as an example.

You want to know why people get so worked up over the fart? It's because it was never a part of his games and yet it has hijacked his character now. Wario isn't like Fox or Captain Falcon. He had plenty of abilities to draw from that all go ignored in favor of Dreamworks tier humor.

>It was never part of his games
Yes it was, he's been seen farting in World, Ware, and Land on at least one occasion
I'm tired of fags like you saying gross out was never part of his character when it always has been. I agree that the proportion of it to macho is way off in Smash, but his basic framework is entirely fine. He just needs more moves from Land.

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>You want to know why people get so worked up over the fart? It's because it was never a part of his games and yet it has hijacked his character now
It never hijacked his character he was always a disgusting slob. He's just a disgusting slob with a fart now.

He got the shoulder bash back, though.

Just wait until the Illumination movie comes out. Smash's representation is gonna be the epitome of class in comparison.

It was another Nintendo exec that told them to go in a new direction with DK enemies.

>nose picking. ass picking and eating entire bulbs of garlic good
>fart BAD!!!!

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>all the fucking retards ITT
The Japanese character for Wario has always, always been the Smash interpretation. It's specifically been the flavortext by the U.S. team that has given him this Herculean treasure hunter personality rather than being a fat guy who talks about the color of his shit all the time.
Do your homework. Smash Wario is the real Wario.

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>b-b-b-but he only talked about farting and the color of his shit in the game manuals!
and this was how games further gave characters personality or traits when they didn't have enough resources in the hardware to do it. art, quotes and bios in the manuals. i wish games still came with them.

Imagine thinking our interpretations of Wario from SML2, SML3, WL2, WL3, and WL4 as some treasure hunter were based on "flavor text" and not the actual gameplay and story themselves.

smash wario may be real, but american wario is best wario

Imagine getting mad because of how a joke character is treated on a party game

Then how come none of that shit was ever in the actual gameplay? 6 Wario Land games, all made by Japanese developers, and there wasn't a trace of this shit outside of marketing material. You can't even say it was a censorship thing because the games had no issues setting Wario on fire or turing him into a decomposing zombie.

Roy, although this did him more favors than anything. Everyone thinks he's this spunky feisty kid when in reality he's the most boring plank of wood that ever graced Fire Emblem, even beating out his dad in that regard.
He's one of the most popular characters in the franchise because of this misconception and it's solely because he was in Melee.

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You know, marketing can sometimes still completely skew a characters' public image, despite their games or actual personalities
Hell, the biggest example is Crash, he's a jovial prankster over there in Japan compared to the well-meaning retard here

Pretty much. IIRC the creator of DoA regrets making Kasumi in particular so attractive

>You can't use character descriptions and official art to make assumptions about the character
This like saying Mario isn't a plumber because he doesn't literally unclog toilets in Mario 1. You have to read the manual and look at the art to know anything about the character if you were a kid playing the game in 1985 when graphics were limited. Once the graphics got good enough and storage space on the cartridge got large enough to give Wario expressive sprites and long dialogue, funnily enough, he's a gross piece of shit who eats rotten garlic and picks his nose.

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Honestly, the only thing really missing in Ridley's toolkit is the classic pogo tail and maybe another jump. I'd also make his up-B like Fox's but that's more of a mechanic thing.

I remember skipping out on Crash's games because the commercials here made him look like an asshole but then in the actual games he's closer to Wile e Coyote.

Okay ACfag

Why can't Wario be a greedy treasure hunter and a garlic munching farting fat guy?

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It is just dumb that he got a fart attack instead of anything else that has to do with his character

Also his voice in smash ultimate is all wrong. Roy sounds manly as fuck despite being 15 years old

I'm so fucking conflicted on Warioware's existence, on one hand it brought us some pretty cool characters but on the other hand, we lost a ton of great characters that already fit some of the roles the Warioware characters have. We already had a witch, a devil, a scientist, an alien, and I just feel like Wario himself is different, like with him living in a shitty small house instead of a large castle. I just don't really know.

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>bandages on the sword
>three zippers on each shoe
Fucking Nomura.

The Wario game with the most expressive sprites is Wario Land 4 and he doesn't do any grossout stuff in that game. There isn't any of it in Shake It either and that game has hand drawn 2D art. The developers in Shake It even mentioned that they intentionally ignored that because it wasn't interesting. The tech was there to make him a gross asshole, so why wasn't he if that's how he's supposed to be?

Question for you guys: What would you think of the WarioWare games if, hypothetically, the original Warioware team created an original character and didn't use Wario. The OC fills Wario's role and namesake of the series, everything else is the same.

I think it did more harm than good. It has pretty much nothing to do with Wario and would it would work just fine as its own IP.

OtherM suit is ok and as much as I'd like the old Varia Suit, it's at least not plastic like in said game.
However the pea shooter of an Arm Cannon can fuck right off.

Unironically, he would have been forgotten by Nintendo like Metroid

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Which game did he fart in, anyways?

>Miyamoto even said they did not include him in NSMBU because of the image Smash has created for him.
no fucking way

I actually avoided the warioware games for the longest time because of me thinking is was a "wacky fart time" game, but after playing Gold and revisiting the older ones its pretty kino. I would of probably played it sooner if it was not a weird wario spinoff.

People just wish he had moves representing the games he starred in. Not that hard to understand.

It would succeed in Japan and have moderate success worldwide, like Rhythm Heaven

Because Super Metroid is a well loved game.

He would of least still be a Mario spinoff staple and would have a land moveset in smash

Because the suit Samus had in brawl was still fine. Other M suit is not fine and looks like shit.

Wario should have suit he uses in warioland not warioware.

FFS we need a new fucking warioland game. They could even make a remake of wario land 4 what uses artstyle from wario land shake it, that will print money.

My problem is he doesn't even represent Warioware well. It looks like someone just looked at some pictures of him (which included him on his bike) and just filled int the blanks.
Look at how Duck Hunt represents the Zapper games with his various attacks. Why can't Wario reference a few different Microgames as attacks?

Friendly reminder that in Japanese material Wario was always le funny fart man and the "based /fit/ jew" meme was created entirely by NoA marketing.

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What do you mean? Did they not get the Wario Land games in Japan?

Yeah, I figured you had no retort other than shitposting.

Because actually designing a character from the ground up is more than just "how many references from their games can I possibly fit into one moveset"

>Why can't Wario reference a few different Microgames as attacks
Because that's how they were animated (more noticeably in Brawl).
Quick, sporadic and nonsensical moveset that opposed Mario more fluent, follow-through attacks.

I mean that's what Megaman is, and people seem happy with him.

I hadn't heard of Warioware till after I played Brawl so I assumed him riding a bike was a reference to Wario Blast.

Definitely would've rather had a new IP instead of it being a "Wario spinoff series". Also to add onto what I said earlier about Wario feeling different, if this were the same Wario from the Land games, than he should be beating the shit out of these small creatures in this cutscene. Wario doesn't give a fuck what treasure is who's, if you get in his way, you're fucked, he shouldn't be running as if these small guys are going to do something to him

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This would of ironically been better for everyone.

>Landfags would not have to deal with people thinking Wario is just a fart joke.
>Landfags can play as WarioLand Wario in smash.
>After Shake It bombed, Nintendo might of thought of making another one instead of thinking "ah fuck it they have WarioWare"

>Warioware has its own identity than another Mario spin-off.
>Warefags would still have a ware character in Smash.
>Warefags don't have to argue with Landfags, and vice versa.

t. Warefag

>>You can't use character descriptions and official art to make assumptions about the character
>This like saying Mario isn't a plumber because he doesn't literally unclog toilets in Mario 1. You have to read the manual and look at the art to know anything about the character if you were a kid playing the game in 1985 when graphics were limited.
except Mario had a whole game where him being a plumber was central to it - Mario Bros.

I don't even care about Metroid anymore, but how is this confusing? Super Metroid is well regarded so people like that design. Other M was poorly received so people don't like that design.

I mean, Mega Man's whole identity is his weapon copying ability. The only options were:
1. impinge on Kirby's schtick
2. flood him with references
3. make a terrible flavorless character like MvC2 did

He can be gross and still rep the actual games you control him in.

>Mario Land
>Wario Land
>Farting
Sure.

>You fucks didn't give a shit when brawl came out 8 years after Prime and didn't use the suit
I did, I commented on it showing Sakurai's nip bias then and I comment on it now. The Prime Varia Suit has the biggest shoulders and therefore is the best and should have been used. Meanwhile the Other M design looks like some putrid plastic racecar had sex with one of those gay modern mecha designs and is terrible in every respect.

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Where does this meme come from? It is not like the Land series does not exist in Japan.

I read ware-fag and imagined someone who becomes a flaming homo upon seeing a full moon.

keke

Nintendo didn't just say "well we have WarioWare" because Ware also went on hiatus due to mediocre sales and not having a point anymore.
Also. without Wario, WarioWare would just be that one minigame collection on the GBA that maybe a cult classic or something. People came for Wario and stayed for the gameplay, so its absurd to say it would have even an assist trophy when Rhythym Heaven itself barely has jack shit in Smash

>doesn't read the Japanese advertising material
>is confused when he doesn't understand why the Japanese character is the way he is
Sad.

>every time I want to play Wario i have to hear a fucking BRAAAP when I press that button in mario kart 8

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Oh hey, isn't it a full moon tonight?

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Nah it's just that people don't like the Other M suit. If what you said is true than people would hate Dante's design from Devil May Cry 2, since that's a shitty game, but most people really like it.

>>doesn't read the Japanese advertising material
Bitch I didn't even read the English manuals as a kid. My memory of these characters is dictated by what is in the games.

WarioWare feels like one of those games where Nintendo came up with a new concept and went with the "just stick a Mario character in it" route.
It was almost the same thing with Splatoon, it would be nowhere near as huge as it is if it was not for the presentation it ended up with.

>but most people really like it.
Probably only because of Nocturne.

You right shit, I forgot that Wario was a selling point. I would prefer an OC instead of using Wario, but then you risk Warioware not selling in the first place.

Wario Ware is part of his series, retard.

*Cough cough* zss whip and boots

Why did they make her a domanatrix voice and all

Well there you go then, that's why you're out of the loop. Wario's meant as a weird, grotesque counterpoint to Mario. He wasn't intended to be an idol figure.

>Bitch I didn't even read the English manuals as a kid.
>Don't bother to understand a character
>Throw an autistic meltdown when you don't understand the character
Why?

cubed3.com/news/13349/1/miyamoto-explains-why-wario-wasnt-in-new-super-mario-bros.html
Cause people think you're bullshitting. And a counter to slob Wario:
nintendo.co.uk/News/2008/Drawing-Wario-The-animation-of-Wario-Land-250334.html
>No Wario Land Wario
>No Captain Syrup as the second rep

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>He wasn't intended to be an idol figure.
Of course not. He's a greedy asshole. No one is making the argument you are creating a strawman for.

Because that is Sakurai's fetish
see: Palutena's pole dance routine, Bayonetta getting in at all

I was hoping Bayo's presence meant Samus could get reverted to something resembling her actual character but I suppose Bayo alone is not enough to sate Sakurai's dommy mommy complex.

To confuse people who haven't played the games.
I know a lot of people who genuinely think Zero Suit Samus is some sort of power-up for her in the games because of all the unique stuff it can do in smash.

Fair enough. On the off-chance I was wrong I made sure not to counter argue like a faggot

>Using your platform to voice your fetish to the world.
If that' not based I don't know what it.

It works best as he is in the actual games. Good-Feel purposefully ignored the gross stuff with their game, so at least one of his representations is canonically not of a fart meme man. Why go with some shitty manual description if the latest game in the series gets the character right?

Autism

>I was hoping Bayo's presence meant Samus could get reverted to something resembling her actual character
There's really nothing to revert her to. If it were accurate to the games ZSS would just be a gimped non-lethal form with barely any abilities.

I'm addressing the intent of the character design, not attacking you. Chill, user.

this

wario's greedy and gross but his "eat people and fart attack" schtick basically comes out of nowhere. making his moveset up from scratch based on broad traits rather than his actual gameplay is pretty nonsensical
"his recovery is meant to be the corkscrew conk from wario world!"
>the move where he jumps and spins upwards is inspired by a side somersault
"his neutral special is inspired by his suck-in coins move from world!"
>a move that did no damage and only collected coins
"some of his animations reflect wario ware microgames!!!"
>randomly pulling certain reference animations from specific forgettable microgames does not a good moveset make
>meanwhile he only has the shoulder barge as a dash attack, no earthshaking punch, or shaking enemies down for money, or groundpound, or special grabs, or transformations and this is fine

Sakurai just does retarded shit when it comes to getting inspiration

>Wario is inspired by manuals and character fluff rather than his actual games
>but Megaman is a soulless machine who is 1:1 to the NES games, because why the fuck not it's my game not yours

I can't disagree but I wish he hadn't done it using my character. When I think of all the cool bird kung fu Samus could be doing instead of strutting around with rocket heels and a whip it makes me sad.

What the fuck, this doesn't even MENTION smash, all it does mention is a fart attack
Fuck you sensationalist retard, you made a "Miyamoto is out of touch" issue into a
"Smash is warping the view of the masses" issue, and I got upset over nothing

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I mean I'm fine with that. Having her rolled in with Power Suit Samus is the ideal state as far as I'm concerned. Besides that I just think one could do a way better job making up a moveset from whole cloth than what he came up with.

Are you complaining about SMash stretching the conext of what moves are based on? Pokemon and Fire Emblem do this all the time, why is it suddenly an issue with Wario?

I honestly didn't even recognize those World references, and I played the shit out of that games since I love Treasure.

>With this game we wanted every character to play the same way
YOU MADE DOKI DOKI PANIC WITH YOUR OWN HANDS AND LATER ADDED SOME MARIO CHARACTERS. YOU GAVE THEM THE SAME ABILITIES FOR 3D WORLD
YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO MAKE NSMB WII THE SMB2 OF THE SERIES AND YOU BLEW IT

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>but Megaman is a soulless machine

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It wasn't about Smash, it was me giving that user validity in his claim. And that interview came out a year and change after Brawl, so put two and two together.

This goes for a lot of the characters, especially the earlier veterans. Like Ganon, he is a complete asspull, even though he is the main antagonist of Nintendo's second biggest franchise. Mario and Link are Nintendo's big boys, but their movesets are so bland compared to some of the new additions. Sakurai needs to take his head out of his ass and change some of these designs.

It's not really a stretch in Pokemon's case, since the parameters for the attacks are pretty unclear with the simple attack animations from the games.

Walk into spikes.

t. Mega Main

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Comparing it to Pokemon and Fire Emblem doesn't make sense when those games don't have as much to pull from as Wario.

Wario has a half-dozen sidescrolling platforming games they could've pulled from for moves and ideas and mechanics. Fire Emblem literally just has attack animations. It makes sense to make a moveset for Marth based on how he swung his sword, but not for Link to have a completely made up moveset based on 'the triforce of courage' and being brave.

To use another example, it's the difference between Ganondorf and Marth. One has a clear arsenal of attacks they should be pulling from, the other doesn't. But they both have mostly OC moves.

>Like Ganon
Ganon is the absolute worst desu.

>pit's final smash is now lightning chariot for some reason
>dark pit, who used the lightning chariot much more than pit, has a sniper staff fs that he used once in the whole game for like 2 minutes
what goes through this man's head?

???
In Smash he's expressionless because he's matching the NES graphics. I know he's not an actual emotionless machine in his games.

>>but Megaman is a soulless machine who is 1:1 to the NES games
Oh man, so soulless.

Yes it is a stretch, Fly is an attack that has you fly in the air and then come down, but Fly attack on the way up here
Agility deals damage to Pichu despite not being electric
and Disable just disables the last move used in the game, but here is confuses, INSTEAD OF CONFUSE WHICH RELFECTS I FUCKING HATE THIS GODDAMIT SAKURAI

>"I'm not going to let just anyone in Smash Bros."
His statement when he showed Rock definitely came off as condescending, almost as if he felt obliged to do so but wanted to take a personal spin on it. I'm glad Iwata presented that Ballot when he did or we probably wouldn't have K. Rool, Ridley or even Banjo. Also take into consideration that save for a few, all Nintendo-owned properties in Smash has his own takes, touches and interpretations. TPCi has my respect for forcing his hand at times and Square is a double-edged sword, but one that can keep him at bay.

What's your point? They have to reinterpret moves in Pokemon's own damn anime, let alone when they want to make them work in an action game.

R.O.B.'s a better robot anyway.

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pokemon saying their names is enough for to write them off

Did you retards skip your reading comprehension classes?

You know that megaman is literally a soulless machine, being a robot, right?

*for me

>"t-the greedy fit hunter was a meme made by NoA you guys"
>Tsukawaki: After I’d played a bunch of the games in the series, I thought Wario was pretty manly. He’s so uncool that he ends up being extremely cool. Depending on the game, he can be coarse—farting and doing stuff like that, but I didn’t want to show that side of him. As much as possible, I wanted to show a macho Wario, one who is masculine and tough. I asked the animators to emphasize strongly his manly characteristics. We built up this image step-by-step during the animation process.

But Wario DOES pull for the games, just in non-direct ways (his jerky animation calling back to Ware), moves used in a different context (Chomp and Twist), or directly (Shoulder Bash)
I think he should have more, but he has a very clear basis on his source material in Smash.

the irony of this post

Kill yourself. He's fine. Honestly at this point anything is better than generic punch kick moveset. They're as bad as sword characters.

He's not expressionless or stoic, though. He has the Little Mac problem where he looks pissed 24/7 in Smash

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>TPCi has my respect for forcing his hand at times
TPCi let's Sakurai do whatever he wants. Hardly nobody gets that privilege from TPCi. Not even Nintendo. Also, the ballot was Sakurai's idea, I'm pretty sure.

>they have to reinterpret in the anime
This happens a lot less than people let on, the most glaring use of this is Psychic, but being a blast of psychic energy is technically enough for you to stretch it anyways
Also, none of the moves I mentioned had to work te way they do. Fly could just be a descending attack like Incineroar's Cross Chop, Agility could just raise speed, and Disable could lock off the last move used and confuse could just confuse. Those moves were stretched because they could be, not because they had to be

>he can't be a slob and a treasure hunter

>Wario should have suit he uses in warioland not warioware.

Wario had both his usual overalls and the biker outfit in every Smash Bros. game he's been in.

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>Megaman is 1:1 based on the NES graphics and this is good
>wanting otherwise is bad

>Wario is practically pulled out of Sakurai's ass and this is good
>wanting otherwise is bad

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That's just the art. In canon, he is a soulless robot, something backed up by the X/Z spinoffs.

>Wario is practically pulled out of Sakurai's ass
Retard

*based entirely on manuals rather than games where you actually control him, with the bizarre exception of World which is kinda in there but not really
is that better

>It's specifically been the flavortext by the U.S. team that has given him this Herculean treasure hunter personality rather than being a fat guy who talks about the color of his shit all the time.
The Wario Land Shake It devs literally put as much effort as possible in making Wario look as cool as possible
>"After I’d played a bunch of the games in the series, I thought Wario was pretty manly. He’s so uncool that he ends up being extremely cool. "Some of the ladies in the office were complaining at first about how his nose is pink, but in the end they started using pictures of him for their desktop wallpaper. Now they say he’s cool. (laughs)" - Tadanori Tsukawaki, design director on Wario Land Shake It
>"I want everyone to see how cool Wario is. His behaviour isn’t that crude this time, so I hope even girls will think he’s cool." Kentaoro Sei, planner on Wario Land Shake It

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>Also, the ballot was Sakurai's idea, I'm pretty sure.
Nope, all Iwata. Sakurai would have happily stayed ignorant to fan requests. Iwata was bilingual and looked at both parts of the fandom. He knew people were pissed off from the leaks and wanted more. Look at Sakurai's interviews during Smash Four, he wanted out as quickly as possible.

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I'm more upset that Warioman is still his final smash
Even a huge fart cloud will be more fitting.

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Smash Bros focused on Wario's recent games and characterization. What's wrong with this?

>but in the end they started using pictures of him for their desktop wallpaper.
cute as hell

>completely ignores the Pacman world games

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Wario has his shoulder bash in Ultimate as his dash attack, his butt stomp is his down throw, and like you mentioned he has moves from World, like his back throw being the Wild Swing Ding and his jabs being the punches from World. His chomp is clearly based on the suction move from World as well.

It's not perfect but it's still more than you're giving credit to.

The only issue with Megaman is that he doesn't blink when he's idle like in the originals.
What confuses me is that he blinked when idle in the E3 2013 demo build of the game but lost that animation sometime before the game came out and we never reimplemented.

>l-later interpretations totally represent the entire history of the character, guys!
So what you're saying is WarioWare is just as valid as Mario Land 2.

Post proof then.

It could be worse. Much worse.

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Literally what should they get outside of he bicycle kick? The only notable move is the rev roll and his side special is already too fitting to give up
You should complain abut lack of rep in Spirits and Songs, not moveset

Wasn't shake it done after Brawl?

the fact it ignores
>the origin of the character
>his debut as a protagonist
>his longest running series of game which contains his best selling game (Wario Land 1) and multiple million sellers (Wario Land 2, Wario Land 3, Wario Land 4 all sold over a million)
for something that Sakurai himself and no-one else thinks is more fitting

He literally only has his Dash attack because of fan demand. He took it out of Brawl for Smash 4 because he thought it'd make Wario stronger.
nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-explains-why-warios-shoulder-ram-move-was-taken-out-of-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/
And even the fact most of his moves are based on Wario World is baffling. Out of all the games to take inspiration from, he picks the mediocre selling GameCube game?

They were in development around the same time. That why Wario's victory theme is Stonecarving City.

They were made in unison with one another
It's why Wario's victory theme is from Shake It
youtube.com/watch?v=l0jYd_G8DKQ
youtube.com/watch?v=JuPqsCdhVic

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>later interpretations
The whole point some user was trying to make is that this fat macho treasure hunter was a meme made by localization in the US is a blatant lie as the developers of Shake it used as base for that game.

To answer your question, yes. Wario holds a grudge against Mario until this day.

Music gets picked later in development, though. Shake It was released too late to have had any meaningful impact to Smash Bros. The same shit is true for like Samus, who still has her Other M look but her in-game spirit is from Samus Returns.

I’m more annoyed of how Smash completely ignores Ms PAC Man.

>as the developers of Shake it used as base for that game.
Wow Sakurai should have gone in time after he realized Shake It existed in order to remake Brawl Wario :)

She shows up for a few moments in the background of the Pac-Land stage, but I'm surprised they didn't remove her from the stage for Ultimate given how much they don't seem to care for her. How in the world did the fairy queen from Pac-Land get a spirit but not Mrs. Pac-Man?

What should his neutral b had been?

Not him, but those devs deciding to focus no ti doesn't really mean that it's wholly indicative of his character, especially with how Nintendo seems to disagree. It just means they wanted to take liberties with how he was presented, think Paper Mario's Bowser, who Miyamoto has gone on record saying he dislikes. i do agree with saying that those aspects were a meme is stupid though

It just shows how a director with taste can make decisions cut off dumb shit that shouldn't exist in the first place and bring the best of a character instead of doubling down on said dumb shit.

command grab that lets you move around with someone before throwing them like in wario land
can be charged up and angled, damages other players so it's useful in wacky free for alls and can be uses to throw other items too
fart was down-b by the way

It’s absolutely ridiculous that she’s not a spirit, Echo nothing at all.

Nintendo Direct 4/1/15.
He was also the one who announced Smash Four in 2011, Sakurai not even knowing about the games until the announcement and still working on Kid Icarus. He did this with Brawl as well in 2005. Iwata also made the arrangement with him with his company SORA, giving him complete freedom and creative control as well as funding whatever game he wants to make. Nintendo also co-owns SORA.

>What if we made Zelda play more like a Persona character and had Joker be a buffed Shiek with a comeback mechanic making everyone think Persona is just about generic anime ninjas
And people actually praise this man, thinking he hasn't done more harm than good to Smash

Also, instead of chewing people, he could shake them like in Shake It

>Thread started with someone using Wario to complain about a character being misrepresented
>You're now complaining about a character being too true to their source material and wish it used your autistic character headcanon
lol

Damn, I just realized. I meant down-b.
I've never played Wario Land so I'm curious.

Being based on some shady ass manual description instead of actual gameplay is not being "too true to their source material".

I don't even know the point you're trying to make. Shake It was contemporary to Brawl and the later referenced that game as other user have shown.

Is not, but it's part of him. He can be a fat eating garlic jew and also a treasure hunter moved only by greed.
I don't think Sakurai disrespected his character, as he's been the only person that dared to mix Wario in Warioware and Wario in Wario Land in one single character, but it does feel like a caricature of itself.

Iwata just says it was discussed with the Smash director. He doesn't say he approached Sakurai with the idea. A vague as fuck statement isn't evidence because obviously Iwata and Sakurai discussed the ballot at some point. We don't know who first brought up the idea unless you can find something more conclusive. Post proof of it being Iwata's idea.

Shake It was developed too late to have any impact in Smash Bros besides some pieces of music and maybe stickers. Retard.

Speaking of which, how are people still fine with Ganondorf having Falcon specials instead of this guy fulfilling that role?
The fact that people are cheering on the addition of his copypasted Ike smash attacks instead of clamoring for a total revamp is seriously depressing.

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>Being based on how the creators originally envisioned him isn't true to the character
Sakurai's fault is that he was too accurate and often gets the original creator's approval/input for Smash characters.

All characters from 64 and Melee need a revamp, Dorf is just the most obvious one.

>Speaking of which, how are people still fine with Ganondorf having Falcon specials instead of this guy fulfilling that role?
I'm not fine with it. I've never been fine with it. It's just that after 4 (FOUR) games of it I've just stopped caring. They're never going to rectify this injustice and F-zero is so dead there's no chance of any other characters from it getting into another Smash game.

>how are people still fine with Ganondorf having Falcon specials
Do you really want swordsman Ganondorf?

Smash made Starfy way too weak and pathethic when he's capable of many things

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Hey nimrod, YOU were the one who brought up SR. For the record, it only takes a few days for one person to make a new model, and they already have a rig. It would have been absurdly easy to change the design from an awful one from a bad game that nobody likes to one that reflects good games that people DO actually like, and yes, for the record, it COULD have feasibly been the SR suit.

That image shows Starfy being weak and pathetic

I don't know if ruined is the right term, since Smash is the only time you ever see him, but he really doesn't act anything like he does in Smash. He's basically Batman but more cocky.

Attached: Ultimate Falcon.png (1280x1324, 1.08M)

Ganondorf does NOT need a total revamp.
He needs Dead Man's Volley, a Teleport recovery,
MAYBE Float, and thats literally it. I'm tired of all the fangames and mods completely turning him into a mage not realizing that that misses the point of his character nearly as hard, if not moreso

Because the guy doing the manuals is sure the same one directing the game. The fart reference in Wario Land II manual is just a misreading of the fire transformation, it is clear from the game that it has nothing to do with farting.

>Change the suit
>Have to redo all artwork and cg trailers featuring Samus
lol good job retard

>Because the guy doing the manuals is sure the same one directing the game.
It usually is, especially for the older manuals that had a lot of ingame lore in them.

>Iwata just says it was discussed with the Smash director
PR talk. Sakurai mentions time and time again that Nintendo is the boss and Iwata is not only his senior, well was but his boss at the time. If Nintendo want something from Sakurai, he has to oblige to it. Do not forget that Sakurai is still working with another company's IP. He created it, but does not own it. I bet you think Corrin was his team's idea and not Nintendo's intervention to push Fire Emblem. He says another Fighters Pass is not likely. Nintendo may decide otherwise.
mynintendonews.com/2018/07/02/sakurai-says-he-does-think-about-working-on-other-games-beside-smash-bros-but-nintendo-is-the-boss/

Miyamoto was an innovator during his time, but he ain't no storyteller.

The "lore" in the manuals were afterthoughts. It happened that sometimes, it was good and the manual guy was hired to do some writing in the games (see Koizumi). Most of the times, there is a new guy in the company that is credited with the manual and nothing else.
Manuals had no influence in the games and sometimes even contradicted what was in there.

And Shake It and Brawl had the same games before them to be inspired with

No, it COULD not have been.
Literally any attack where Samus would have to raise her arms would clip city due to her massive pauldrons compared to the Other M suit, her run and aerials would have to be changed as to not have the legs mold into the model due to them being thicker, and her Morph Ball would need to be entirely remodeled, and that's not counting her Render, character trailer, trailers she appears in pre-launch, etc. It's a Shake It situation, it came too late. Having lazy clipping animation would fly for PM, but not for an official product
And I used SR for the record because of the sheer amount of retards who say "THEY SHOULD HAVE USED THIS VARIA SUIT", not realizing it was much too late

At what point did you realize Smash would be better off without Sakurai?

>Can't find a source
>I-It's PR talk, Iwata was clearly the mastermind!
And that article is just Sakurai saying that he'll make new Smash Bros games if asked for Nintendo. It says nothing about Sakurai and Nintendo's relationship when it comes to game dev decisions. Shit, Sakurai is very transparent and has said that Nintendo had the most control over the fighters pass and it was planned without the developer's consent. It's the first time Sakurai has talked about character selection not being under his total control. Find proof that the ballot was Iwata's decision.

lmao I bet you think TPCi picks the Pokemon reps for Smash

Brawl relied on the most recent interpretation. Which is closer to Wario's character than Shake It.

I think most people realized that when Brawl came out.

>The "lore" in the manuals were afterthoughts.
Why did they get written? Could it be... that perhaps... that's how the character was originally envisioned by the director???

Sakurai's the only person who would've put him in Smash and I'll respect him to the end of days for doing that.

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Is this legitimate autism?

?

I'll take that as a yes.

I thought that was a given considering where we are, user. Just a random thing to bring up.

He clogs gas station toilets with monster shits, wipes his face with his bird shit covered hat and literally has a diary detailing his daily dumps. And he doesn't wash his clothes. And the Toads all tell him he smells like shit. He's a fucking unhygienic slob in all forms of canon. What I don't get is where this idea that he's this dashing Indiana Jones came from.

Five years ago. The guy kept complaining and whining and bitching and moaning and crying about his lack of social life. Just step down and consult or supervise.

>It says nothing about Sakurai and Nintendo's relationship when it comes to game dev decisions.
>he does occasionally think about working on games that aren’t Super Smash Bros related, but it’s ultimately down to Nintendo, and when they ask him to make a new Super Smash Bros game he’s always makes that his top priority.

Meaning, if he wants to make a new game, Nintendo has to greenlight it first.

>Find proof that the ballot was Iwata's decision
I literally gave you proof, you're the one that's trying to twist things in your own perspective. Sakurai's frustration with Smash Four was well-documented. You think he really proposed the one thing that would give the one outlet he actively avoided a voice for Ultimate?

>lmao I bet you think TPCi picks the Pokemon reps for Smash
Yet Sakurai reserves a slot for Pokemon every game. He also had to comply with Pikachu's ears being shown completely in promo material for the last game. Believe (or don't) what you want, the evidence was posted and is there for you to find.

Capcom would never have done Rock the justice Sakurai gave him. He may have weird fetishes, bad taste and treat some of my other favorites like shit, but he did right by the Blue Bomber so he's alright by me.

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Nobody is saying that dumbass, it is just dumb that Sakurai pulled farting and eating people out of his ass instead of making a moveset based on the stuff he can do in his games. Nobody would be upset if he farted in a taunt or something like that.

Man, you set up and knocked down that strawman like a champ! Do you do this professionally?

>What I don't get is where this idea that he's this dashing Indiana Jones came from.
It's how they interpreted him as a kid. I interpreted Link as a girl because of his tunic and thought his name was Zelda but my interpretation as a kid was wrong. And so is that user's Wario interpretation.

Why do people pretend he was never disgusting in the US? This is from Wario Land 4. You know, Wario LAND. Seriously these stupid fucking faggots don't even know anything about the games they supposedly like. Smash has problems but Wario isn't among them.

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This, unironically Ridley's best design. Shame about Samus though, literally any other iteration of the varia suit would've been better

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>Meaning, if he wants to make a new game, Nintendo has to greenlight it first.
No shit, user? Guess who owns Smash? It's Nintendo. Nintendo just gives Sakurai creative control as the director.
>I literally gave you proof
You didn't. Post something that says Iwata approached Sakurai for the ballot, you retard.
>Yet Sakurai reserves a slot for Pokemon every game.
No shit, user? It's Sakurai's decision to reserve a slot because he personally wants to add a new Pokemon.
>He also had to comply with Pikachu's ears being shown completely in promo material for the last game.
Geez, maybe it's because Sakurai listens to feedback from the original creators.

Don't even bother replying if you're going to make shit up to fit your narrative. Post actual proof or leave.

You could just rationalize it as him putting on a show for the game he's in

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The moment he decided that Banjo should be playable instead of Bomberman

Real talk, why the fuck is Banjo playable? He's an irrelevant character from a dead franchise.

Actual iconic characters like Bomberman, who has over 70 games mind you is only an assist trophy, but this ugly bear who has only 5 games, 2 of which weren't even in Japan gets to be playable?

Unfucking acceptable, you can't seriously defend this

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This is a boring copypasta, someone bring back the K.Rool "nostalgyafaggots should kys ASAP", shit used to make me grin whenever it popped up

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>No shit, user? Guess who owns Smash? It's Nintendo.
DING DING DING DING DING
Exactly. Whatever they want from it, Sakurai can either do it or they'll find someone else who can. Exactly what I was saying.
>You didn't.
I did. Nintendo Direct 4/1/15. Sakurai himself would propose all the Smash related news himself at that time, but Iwata himself presented the Smash Ballot to the entire world.
>No shit, user? It's Sakurai's decision to reserve a slot because he personally wants to add a new Pokemon.
Partially correct. TPCi gives him a list to choose from and he picks it. Though he picks the characters, TPCi still provides him with what they want to promote. Get it now?
>Geez, maybe it's because Sakurai listens to feedback from the original creators.
That wasn't feedback, that was a requirement. Same reason most of the Pokemon don't have their shinies as alts. Seems they cooled down on that specific tidbit with Pikachu's ears since.

>Don't even bother replying if you're going to make shit up to fit your narrative.
>your narrative
Pic related.

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I don't get how he sounds like his balls dropped lower than Ike. Ike's English voice is so fucling bad.

This is forced and ingenuine. Memes are supposed to flow among the crowd, not serve as your personal signature on an anonymous imageboard.

>why don't people put the manual in higher regard than the actual games????
gee I don't know.

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He literally the face of his own type of game that nothing replicated. If that isn't based I don't know what is.

>apparition
Fuck off you disgusting spic.

>Nintendo Direct 4/1/15.
The direct that doesn't confirm shit? Did you even watch it? Find some proof.
>Partially correct. TPCi gives him a list to choose from and he picks it.
lmao you're making even more shit up
post proof of this claim too

I'm waiting for proof. It should be easy to find, if your claims are true.

>Claim to like a character
>Actually don't know anything about the character
>Get angry when you get called out for it
OH NO NO WARIOBROS
WARIO ISN'T SUPPOSED TO FART HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE HOW I WANT HIM TO BE REEEEEE

The Butt Bounce as his down air instead of that shitty kick. As far as I know that's HIS move throughout the entire World series. And I'm surprised he doesn't do it at all. I don't think Sakurai played a single Pacman game outside the arcade games. Though then again not very many people did.

I like the games, not what some dumbshit made for their marketing

Still baffles my mind when people claim Greg Chungus is the better Ike, when all his lines sound like he's afraid his mom will wake up from his voice
I knew it was a bad sign when I heard him talking in Fates. I dunno why is always Ike the one that sounds awful, his Ephraim actually sounds with actual energy

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>tch.... typical fake fans..... actually playing the games and wanting that represented in smash, instead of wanting a playable manual description
oh no it's retarded

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>he didn't read any enclosed instruction booklets
Zoomer spotted

>Fake Wario fan upset over the fact that people are questioning his shitty headcanon
lol get a life

It wasn't for marketing. It's how the developers envisioned Wario. Why are fake Wario fans so stupid?

eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/19/sakurai-explains-how-pokemon-characters-are-chosen-super-smash-bros-not-enough-time-bring-back-entire-smash-roster-wii-3ds/
He goes to TPCi, he gets their answer to his questions, they show what's what, he picks them, end of story. Otherwise he has no knowledge on what Pokemon plans unless he goes to them, they don't come to him.
And I'm going to keep posting that Direct as proof because Sakurai himself did not ever bring up the ballot once since it was announced until the final Direct for Smash Four. I literally dug up the archives of his interviews and not once did he mention the ballot being his idea.

Last post, take what I gave to you or leave.

"fake Wario fan"

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Did you even played Uprising or are you just to busy shitposting?
Dark Pit used the chariot one cutscenes, Pit fought the Chariot previous master and claimed it fair and square, is his by right
Dark Pit ises a staff because he has a Staff with his name on it

Marketing material or not it's still part of the character. That screenshot is to dispel the meme that Wario is only gross and weird in Japan when he's also gross and weird in the west. Are all the transformations like getting flattened or zombified or becoming a spring suddenly not wacky and random?

If that is so, why isn't any of that shit shown in the games? It is not like they are Atari 2600 games where you can't tell what the fuck is going on unless you read the manuals (which at that time, were made alongside the games instead of after they were ready).

>He goes to TPCi, he gets their answer to his questions, they show what's what, he picks them, end of story.
Woah. You just proved Sakurai has total creative control over the Pokemon rep. Since he goes over to TPCi and asks TPCi questions. He's also the one that reserves the spot. Meanwhile, TPCi just answers questions and shows Sakurai Pokemon. You're a retard that can't read. You're a retard that's taking Iwata saying that the Smash Ballot was discussed between him and Sakurai as proof of Iwata being the one who came up with the ballot.

Is English not your first language or something? This is embarrassing.

I think his point was that Dark Pit originally became his own slot because Sakurai decided to give Pit a Final Smash that Dark Pit never canonically did, then retroactively gave Pit one that both of them can do.

If it is not in the games, it is not part of the character. Getting zombified or flattened has nothing to do with being a fart meme man. People would be happy if that happened in Smash, it is actually what we want, actual references to the games instead of Sakurai being a hack.

I actually used to think 64 and Melee Falcon is Douglas the original Falcon, and Brawl to Ultimate is Rick Wheeler from the Anime since he becomes the next Capt. Falcon because their personalities and mannerisms were totally different

Wario Ware. You're welcome.

That's fucking autistic. You're basically saying none of those NES games had a story or premise. Then no enemies or items or moves or characters have names if they aren't explicitly stated in the games. No material outside of a video game is canon apparently. This is a spoiled zoomer that never grew up with boxes having paper in them.

>moving the goalpost
We are talking about Land. Your argument that Wario is a wacky fart man because of the promotional material for that series.

Sure you were. Retard.

Not if they directly contradicted what was in the game. It was very common for the descriptions in the manuals to not match what was actually in the game, something you should know if you are such a boomer.

I've heard this said before but I never really got it, aside from two new taunts after Brawl, Falcon pretty much acts the same way he did before in melee and 64
The anime is secretly based but I dunno if I'd ever subscribe to this idea

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>only emotion is anger and determination in smash
>doesn't speak, cheer or smile
>Doc Louis only visible during victory screens and not in the background like pokemon trainer
>make Doc Louis look like a crack addict
>barely any Doc Louis lines
>Doesn't use any of the boxers move's from punch out, instead just random ways to punch someone
>KO punch instead of Star Punch
>nerfed from 4 to ultimate even though Sakurai said he had the lowest online winrate
>canonically is great a jumping because he uses jump ropes but still has a worse jump than most of the cast
>Barely has a good ground game because of super armor and smallest dodge timer in the game
>no fast combos to pull off like punch out
>joker can arsene multiple times throughout a match but can only get KO punch twice most of the time in a match
>canon alts get taken away in Ult
>only 4 songs
>consistently bottom tier with no signs of Sakurai giving a shit

at least he is the underdog in smash just like in punch out....

I don't know why but the term "meme fart man" makes me burst with laughter

fug forgot to include a pic

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>Fat fucking literal who the gator from 1935 when your parents weren't divorced

I fucking love that copypasta so much

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Ironically because he can wall jump he's better off than a lot of characters on some stages. I think it's funny.

Remember that game about a demon king that transforms people into bricks? No? It is almost like the manuals are ignored by everyone, including the people who make the games.

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What mostly sold me is that compared to Melee, Falcon is much more acrobatic and adds a lot of flair to his moves, specially comparing victory animations
Also in his Sm4sh reveal against Lucina he acts way too cocky for a veteran bounty hunter
again that's just me and my autismo if a headcanon

You can't make that argument for Wario since they used the manual shit in Wario Ware. Retard.

wall jump and the ability for recovery to propel him forward def makes his recovery not the worst in the game. I'm happy i can at least recover in ultimate a majority of the time. His recovery has been memed to death so people still think he has the worst in the game. Sure its not great but its def not doctor mario

What happened to the argument that the depiction of Wario in the manuals and promotional material was representative of the character in those games again?

It's hilarious how much better Mac fares in those weird stage builder challenge videos than Ganondorf, Mario, Doctor Mario, and all the Marths. Then Wario dabs on everything with his bike and the Links cheese their way with self harm.

Do you have it? I swear it was written by a secret Roolfag, shit's funny as hell

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Wario World was such a treat, so weird and fun. I feel like Wario World 2 is something that could do well on the switch.

The fact that the shit in the manual was used in future games like Smash and WW makes the argument stronger. Are you upset?

He was also an unbelievable chad who regularly awakened ancient evils so he could kick the shit out of them and rifle through their pockets for any good shit they might have, but that aspect of his character was completely forgotten in favour of le farty man

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Would be cool to have his grab shake coins out of opponents when you mash A. Also wish Master of Disguise got some love in his move set.