I understand Undertale threads are passe as of now, but i'm still confused on how Chara is a bad person...

Chara was probably raised to be a lil shit irregardless of how the dreemur's raised their children, the VHS tapes state this.
When frisk landed in that flower field, he somehow absorbed chara's soul as it was passing. The choices made along the way denote the two personalities (spelling, grammar, etc.) We can assume the more genocidal options are chara pushing frisk to act on these options whilst the more peaceful ones being frisk.

Further evidence cements this in the pacifist end where people call frisk by their proper name and chara greets you at the end of genocide, hence why one's good and the other isn't.

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>she wanted to free monsters
>instead get them trapped in a neverending timeloop filled with murder first by the goat, then by the player

granted, no one could have foreseen just how much of a fuck up the lizard was going to be, but still

Did you even play the game? The tapes in the True Lab make it pretty clear Chara is a psychopath who inflicts misery for fun

In the true pacifist ending when you go back to the start and talk with Asriel he tells you that Chara was fine with killing seven people to break the barrier and that Chara hated people. In the genocide ending Chara literally kills everyone.

They were a disturbed child. It is implied that they were abused.

Asgore also murdered a bunch of kids for no good reason.

>It is implied that they were abused
I see this a lot online, and there's no justification for it whatsoever. Same with the fanon about Frisk being neglected.

asriel stated chara didn't fall down for happpy reasons. most people assume she is suicidal or was abused.

frisk, was probqbly a normal kid. he acts a bit like chara, but is probably different because he didn't grow up in a toxic environment like she did.

the point still stands. FRISK commits the genocide run. chara only helps him at times. her dleting the world at the end is her making sure frisk goes thrkugh with their plan.

I hate when people say Frisk is this perfectly innocent child. Canonically, yes, Chara is completely evil. Frisk though has full choice and can even beat up monsters in the pacifist route to the brink of death as long as no one is killed.

So many people assume that "well since Chara is pure evil that makes Frisk a perfect angel" and it's really upsetting.

exactly. so many people assume the game does this ddlc-esk thing where the player is the one chara twlks to at the end, but i don't think that's true.

>unironic undertale discussion
When will you faggots just fuck off already. Your game is a turd

This

"stop discussion video games in the video game board" you don't like a thread don't click on it simple as that

I'm betting my left nut this is the kind of autistic retard that posts waifushit everywhere and then complains about twitter screencaps not being videogames

nu uh. UR a turd :( meanie

mad bcuz this thread doesn't have waifu debates

>People say that VHS tapes prove Chara was a cunt
>Look up the transcription
>Just Asriel and Chara fucking around
>Chara realizes that buttercups are poisonous
>Immediately tells their brother that they're going to fucking kill themselves and that he should take their soul
>Does it, the absolute madman

Like other people said, Frisk's actions are Frisk's actions and Chara basically just uses that as a guideline for what a normal human being should be because they're a sociopath who doesn't feel anything.

chara knew the buttercups were poisionus
she wanted asriel to take her soul so they could go "get" some more to break the barrier
once asriel got there and realized that entailed killing humans he stopped while chara tried to make him fight them
eventually he ran back to the underground.

I want to continue arguing for my point, but I guess it's all just supposition. Chara could have known buttercups were poisonous before or after poisoning Asgore. It all depends on your opinion of them. But, there's no real denying the bit about collecting human souls. I really don't know why you're repeating this to me like I don't know, either.

In the end, I guess Kris is the only one we can use for more information on Chara. Since he's an example of what Chara would be like if everyone she loved(?) wasn't eternally trapped in a fucking cave.

>chara
>she

I find it so fucking funny that a child with a knife killed a bunch of monsters. Like, you'd think a grown ass man could just grip them by the head and punt the fucker.

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kris is kris, he has nothing to do with chara apart from the same shirt colour. In fact he bears more resemblance to the unused soulless pacifist sprite.

kris is frisk, same colors and clamgirl says frisk and suzy should be friends (kris and susie in deltarune)

Chara isn't particularly a bad person, but is a bit misguided. You can make that far far worse by killing everyone but that's still on you.

potentially, however DR is an alternate universe than UT. Kris could be what frisk would have been in this alternate universe or he could be his own thing, it's all speculation at this rate.

undertale lore is that monsters are all total bitches

their best warriors get sneezed on by children and fucking die, it's why they lost the war.

Chara realized it through sheer accident and was most likely feeling extremely guilty on top of their latent suicidal urges.
>doesn't feel anything
>the whole reason Asriel admires them is their empathy

>Kris is Kris
Yeah of course, it's an AU after all, but there have to be some parallels, here and there. We don't know much of anything about Chara, but even with what little information we have, Kris matches up. Loving pranks. Loving chocolate. He even has glowing red eyes.

Speculation is speculation, of course, but Undertale lore is so fucking basic that there's no way this isn't intentional.

>Their empathy
I guess that's why Chara can go from loving monsters to fucking yeeting the universe after watching Frisk kill everyone.

i want frisk to fuck the shit out of chara

We can pretty easily tell if Chara (or Asriel since they were both responsible) knew they were poisonous beforehand, because Chara has no reason whatsoever to poison anyone other than themselves (and the humans I guess, to be thorough), they were a happy family and the underground was more cheerful than it had ever been.

undertale more like pretty good game tale

Whether or not Chara turns out to be evil depends on the route and player's actions - while Chara originally had no faith in humans, depending on Frisk's/the player's actions, their faith can be restored. Chara is the narrator (pay attention to the dialogue when you interact with things), and in the Genocide route, the dialogue becomes more violent and self-assertive as Chara takes control of Frisk; in the Pacifist route, however, Chara is the one that actually saves Asriel - after Frisk 'calls out' to all of the other characters to save them, they get the option to call out to 'someone', and immediately after, we get a flashback of a memory that could only have come from Chara that is seen simultaneously by both Frisk and Asriel, which causes him to lose the will to fight, thus letting you 'SAVE' him. It's basically up to the player to either redeem or fully corrupt Chara.

This

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Yeah that's right. Since you know, they had lost their original soul and ability to feel along with it, then were revived confused and lost, attached to a mass murdering psycho.

That's quoting the wrong post but thanks for supporting my speculative shitposts.

This.

This but there's only like two times Chara actually takes over control.

Right, but that's towards the end of the route - leading up to that, we get dialogue that stops referring to Frisk as 'you' and starts using 'I' and 'me' more frequently, implying that Chara's the one in control at that point (but hasn't stolen control away from the player yet). Regardless, the point remains - Frisk's/the player's actions either teach Chara that they were wrong about humans and eventually lets them redeem themselves by helping save their brother during the final fight, or they prove Chara was right and all humans are truly evil, which leads to them taking control at the very end and stealing the Player's soul.

i agree

Chara convinced asriel to take their soul and go out of the underground to kill humans in order to break the barrier, this however led to the death of him, toriel and asgore to split up, and the next several humans to be hunted down, the determination experiments that led to the goo monsters, flowey, etc. You could blame it on Asriel being a bitch I guess, but a child having the intention to kill like that is pretty rare.

That doesn't suggest Chara is in control, only that they're taking on a more personal perspective on your mission. There are a fair few random parts that imply Chara taking independent action or having a very different experience to Frisk even on Pacifist, along with what Chara says at Genocide it seems to imply more that they could have taken control at any time, but wanted to know the right thing to do after the plan they and Asriel had didn't work out. I'd say it's less about redeeming Chara and humans and more proving that the refusal to kill wasn't a bad thing and that Asriel didn't let them die for nothing.
Keep in mind they were doing something so terrible that EIGHT kids eventually chose to climb all the way to Mt. Ebott and fell down for one reason or another, and Chara actually shared that reason with Asriel. Chara had a lot of love for their new family and had been driven suicidal by those up top and then hears all the talk about souls and freeing them. It's hard to tell just where morals lie in all that but Chara had it rough and needed some help rather than just being outright bad.

So if you go to sleep in the morning in Deltarune, Kris takes over again until you get to the supply room. How do you think he'll react when he goes from getting slammed into a fucking locker to having a dino GF by the time he's back in control?

Asriel confides to you in TP that Chara was kind of an asshole compared to Frisk.
It's ambiguous whether Frisk is "there" during neutral or geno routes. At worst, they're completely at the mercy of the player's whims.

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No he doesn't. He says maybe they weren't the greatest person, when previously he idolized them and believed in them no matter what. They lived long enough together to all build strong reciprocal relationships, that wouldn't happen if Chara was just a dick. Frisk as a character with their own motivations is a little unclear but they are essentially you in the game.

Frisk is a freak of nature because of their immense determination, even compared to most humans.
If we're making a tally, the monsters killed 7 humans before you, even a guy with a fucking gun.

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Where would Frisk's moral standpoint be? he's essentially a god until chara stops him.

wait nvm i replied before reloading

why not gote bf? (ralsei)

Kris would sooner rip apart Ralsei and use him as a pelt

I'm making the call that Asriel is giving a charitable description of Chara, as his disposition became incredibly subdued at that point.
Chara isn't like, the worst kid, but they did do some knarly shit.

They didn't get to do anything knarly outside of killing themselves and though they aimed to kill six humans (who were very morally dubious based on the evidence) and may have went through with it that was all after they had killed themselves.

They're "passe" because you freaks can't go without posting weird sexual gay shit all the time where it doesn't belong. It destroys almost every single fanbase and then you wonder why the shit gets ridiculed so much.

How are the humans morally dubious? Asriel was very adamant about sparing them. I mean, Asriel is a big softy, but he was initially willing to kill for the good cause of freeing monsterkind.
But regardless, it's some shit.

>Frisk though has full choice and can even beat up monsters in the pacifist route to the brink of death as long as no one is killed.
The game actively discouraged you from doing that on a Pacifist run. You'd just end up botching it with Toriel unless you know about it beforehand.

Frisk has no choice, they act as an unwitting vessel for the player.

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Chara originally came to Mt. Ebbot to kill themselves. Because they "Hated Humanity." And, since the rumors about never coming back from Mt. Ebbot make more sense as a local thing, there's something about the people, or some people near there that inspired them. Still though, there's nothing to really judge by the interaction, since they could have been good for all anyone knows.
Also, I don't get what you're arguing. Are you saying the humans didn't deserve to die because Asriel didn't kill them? He flaked, simple as that. He flaked when Chara explained the plan, he flaked when Chara killed themselves, and he flaked when actually going up against humans, all while starting over again and saying he'd definitely do it this time. Which is why Flowey has the mindset he does.

who hurt you

We don't personally find out, but as I said before something about them and what they do caused eight children, Chara included, to abandon their homes and hike up the mountain famous for people never returning, and we can surmise Chara in particular was suicidal and blamed it entirely on them, to the point of showing their dead body to the village, and knew he would be able to free the monsters in doing so. Asriel had no real knowledge of them so was less interested in sparing them so much as he didn't realise he couldn't handle getting blood on his hands until truly faced with it. Beforehand he was still a bit unsure but instead of bringing up his issues with their plan he chose to just place all his faith in Chara.

Undertale is shit, every other indie game that did something similar did it better.
All the main characters in Undertale deserve to die, except for Frisk and Papyrus. The rest willingly participate in killing innocent human children and plotting to destroy the surface world.

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Yet also, Asriel is the only person with knowledge of Chara's surface life.
I've always assumed Chara had abusive parents or some such thing like that. A poor upbringing with human parents, contrasted with the nuturing and loving Dreemur family could easily lead to misanthropy.
Hell, even just bad human parents can lead to that. I remember around UT's release window people dug up an old 90s documentary called "Child of Rage", who's subject was an discomforting spitting image of Chara.