Name one (1) decent MMO made in the last few years

>500 thousand people browse Yea Forums

no idea, haven't played since the first year
it did have a lot of surprisingly good content and endgame bosses, but that "infinite progression" system killed the game so fucking fast
>hey what if we limited all progression with weekly caps and made it so you can level up FOREVER
>what if we had frequent limited timed events that give you permanent power ups so if you miss one you're less powerful until it comes back in a year or two
>if you take a break for a few months you can no longer play with your friends because they permanently outleveled and outpowered you
>the entire community is segreated into groups based on how long you've played, and even with the catchup mechanics you can never bridge the gap
>you can't even buy your way out of it with the retarded P2W cashshop
So many promising games get killed by poor management
The industry is ruled by billion dollar companies and conglomerates and design is informed by statistics made by people who don't even play videogames
All they had to do was keep it simple and it would've been the next big title

How many years is a few years?
TERA was great at launch.

Peria soon

It's the highest rated PC game of 2019 on Metacritic.

FFXIV is not an MMO

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Oh, sure, they market it as an MMO (mostly to get people to pay a monthly sub)
But then again you see stuff like Path of Exile and Guild Wars on list of "MMOs"
If these are MMOs, then we need a new name for what MMOs actually used to be

Not him and I agree it is an MMORPG,but holy shit does it feel empty outside of towns.The overworld is devoid of actual players unless a hunt was going on and people spam lfg.
The game is a queue simulator most of the time and it really bothered me.

>want to play shadowbringers
>everyone is a retarded weeb
>same shit for black desert
god damn the only good "mmo" community right now is poe it sucks

It has a evolving persistent world that can sustain hundreds/thousands of people in a single area so it counts as a MMO. You can't call Path of Exile a MMO because everything is a non persistent lobby server like a Diablo clone.

Play on a non trash server.

I don't play other MMOs

What do those games do to get people to stay in the outside world?

last I heard they killed the atlas and made the p2w more blatant

Wildstar was great despite it's enormous flaws.

none.
new MMOs cant compete with the 7 or 8 already established ones that have 15~20 years worth of content.
just play WoW, RO, GW, Eve, XI, Everquest, Runescape or whatever like the rest of us.

just don't play on crystal or aether

FFXIV's main game modes are solo story mode and 4/8-player coop instances. The only actual MMO thing to do is sit in city and chat with others, which can be done in many non-MMO online games just as well.

I think someone just needs to make an MMO that focuses primarily on the social aspects of the game rather than the grind.
The reason people look back fondly on Vanilla WoW is because everything was a social activity by design. Open world quest mobs were the best example - you could complete them solo with enough time and effort, but they were tuned for 2-3 players and could be completed far more efficiently that way. You weren't exactly forced into it, but you were strongly rewarded for socializing. And because of the nature of servers and leveling, you'd encounter many of the same people again - so there was enough personal accountability to naturally reward you for not being an asshole.
I think it's possible to create a game that rewards these sort of positive interactions without the grind that encouraged people to play for 36 hours without eating or showering. I think you can have dungeons, raids, PvP, and other open world activities without the things that make them unhealthy.

None, of course. Division 2, Fallout 76 type games are the alphas for what the new MMO will look/play like.

GW2, FFXIV or ESO. Those are the only choices worth considering.

Everytime I ask someone about PoE they always say something like "it's not really an MMO most people play dungeons solo there's not really any reason to group up"
And then occaisionally I see people talking about how good the community in PoE is and how they have made cool friends playing it
I'm never really sure what to think about the game

You sound like a low level scrub if you ignore hunts, boss fates, and eureka.

I went to the Khlousia today and there were so many people doing that one robo frog fate that I hit the character display cap on my i7 7700k+GTX 1080

>homogenized classes
>queues for pve content
>world isn't threatening in the least and your character is a superhero
I hate modern mmos. They're not even mmorpgs, they're action games with optional co-op.

Wildstar's endgame was fucking mint. Raids were really fucking hard.

Pic related literally killed guilds, and it was the first encounter in its respective raid.

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>hunts
>boss fates
Admittedly MMO content, but it's hardly a game-seller or something many people play FFXIV for
Also gets zero new contents outside expansions and that can be finished completely in hours

>eureka
Non-MMO multiplayer games with larger amount of players on a single map do exist
While 144 is a bit on the high side, it's not unheard of; for example Mount & Blade can have 250-player multiplayer matches
Despite that, Eureka is probably the closest thing FFXIV has to MMO gameplay

So no, FFXIV is hardly an MMO
At best, it's a game with some MMO features on the side

Most MMOs don't let players teleport instantly to every town/city as well as within larger cities on top of having flying mounts and instanced player housing (which can also be instantly teleported to). It's almost like square took a challenge to see how little actual walking they could incorporate into the game.

You can farm top gear and special skins in different maps doing event chains for instance.

You can't teleport everywhere. Vanilla wow didn't have any outside of mage portals and 1 hour cd hearthstones.

It's unfortunate the attunement process was retarded.

So you preferred it back then when you needed to be a NEET to make reasonable progress and the majority of non-homogenized classes were unclearable in content except for the meta OP comp which made people even more cliquey with each other *cough FF11/RO/EQ*

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The old school way was actually making enemies hard enough that you needed a party. Only a handful of jobs in XI could solo efficiently, vanilla WoW was much more solo friendly but still had elites and red quests that required groups. XIV is full on nu-MMO philosophy of everything is pretty much soloable and the stuff which isn't is all done via duty finder.

"cool friends" = people who were willing to sit down and spew a bunch of minmaxing meta autism and how to do it at them and helped them gear up to 1 button instakill entire maps for hundreds of hours at a time.

PoE sucks.

I'd love to see someone solo the SS rank or robo frog.

How can you finish hunts and boss fates in hours to collect enough credit when they have 24-72 hour spawns

I tried really hard to like Wildstar. As someone who enjoys hardcore raiding, and particularly raid leading, I thought it would be my shit.
Then one day, we were fucking around in voice chat and playing hide and seek in someone's housing plot, and I realized that was the first time I'd actually had fun doing anything in the game. I quit immediately after that and never looked back.
It had some decent ideas, and I think the developer's intentions for the game were good, but the execution was just so bad.

>credit
You can clear every boss fate and hunt in hours (assuming it's not on cooldown)
However, grinding it for better gear so you can play instanced 8-man boss fights better is just that: grind, not clearing
Once you've seen it once, it's going to be the same every time
It's like clearing a raid; once you kill the boss, you've cleared that one, even if you didn't get all the gear drops you needed

Most people run duos with support/dps. Full groups are pretty popular in the infinite dungeon (delve).

FFXIV has a persistent massively multiplayer world so it counts as a MMO, end of story. Doesn't matter about your subjective "muh old MMO feelings", it's all about objectivity. You can't call yourself a MMO if you have no persistent world servers and can't sustain hundreds of players at the same time in a single area. Mount and Blade is non persistent, Destiny is non persistent, Diablo clones are non persistent, PSO2 is non persistent. Learn what objectively makes an MMO an MMO from the technical side.

>FFXIV has a persistent massively multiplayer world so it counts as a MMO, end of story
Then I'm not interested in "MMO" as a label for games
Kindly provide a new one for games I'd classify as proper MMOs

I want something like vanilla/tbc.

SPBP

How is that any different from FFXI or EQ where people grind the same NMs or dragons in the world nonstop for a chance at loot? You see nothing different. You just bash against a scripted fight tll it drops dead and repeat again later when it respawns because it didn't drop your reward or you didn't earn enough DKP.

...

You really didn't like the dungeons/raids? In my opinion, they were some of the best in the genre.

What does it do better, or different, than any other themepark MMO released in the past decade? How does it improve upon the genre?

Oh, and Eureka isn't persistent, since the instance closes every few hours
The only thing that remains are characters, just like in Diablo clones

XI and EQ had quite a bit more such content available
Not to mention that it wasn't as trivial as XIV's open world
Also, unlike XIV, these encounters were actually a major part of the gameplay for most players

dude the story is like epic and stuff

XIV reinforces the thought that gaming died after 2010. It is the most boring while also being the most easiest MMO I've literally ever played, and that's not an insult just for the sake of it. I can't recall any easier and casual-friendly MMO than XIV, yet it's simultaneously the most popular MMO on the market.

Brings back the RPG and story that's been missing from the loot treadmill "mmorpgs".

>RPG

In what way? The "choices" you make in dialogue change absolutely nothing beyond the line you will receive in response and then it's back to the regularly scheduled programming.

The story is relatively good by MMO standards and the incredibly low bar that is mainline FF games in the past decades. That's about it.

The main reasons it's so popular are:
>Final fantasy name
>It's NOT WoW
>Was salvaged from the garbagefire that was 1.0 so everything since ARR launch looks good by comparison
>Cats/lizards/potatoes and now bunnies and bara furries to please the LGBT crowd that have attached themselves to the game.

but, dude, like, you can pretend (role play) you're the godlike warrior of light that solves everyone's problems and have sex with the elf twink every night!

Why does every game need to innovate when it can just polish what works

If people didn't like what works then the game would be unpopular but it's the opposite for FFXIV since almost every server is congested even before the expansion came out.

>story
>MMORPG
why? I understand setting the stage, but in an MMORPG stories should be generated by players, not pre-defined quests and cutscenes

You can't say the game is easy but not post lodestone or fflogs.

I trust you've cleared UWU, then?

>rpg
Every class is homogenized just like nu-wow. Do the classes even have any kind of unique meme builds that you can experiment with? Does gearing require you to actually think about what piece of gear you should wear?

Eureka is instanced content cross datacenter wide, it's not meant to be persistent. Just like how UO had instanced parts for certain areas to prevent the servers from crashing.

The hardest part of clearing savage/ultimate is finding 7 other players that aren't utter retards.

The thing XIV has going for it is encounter design, both aesthetically and mechanically. That's literally all. For some, that is reason enough to stick with the game.

is this another /r/MMORPG thread where we shit on FFXIV and jack off to old MMOs because we're 30+ years old and jaded

seething tranny detected

so why not join a world prog fc or static that is always recruiting and always clearing

>dumb phoneposter thing nu-"M"MOs are MMOs
Like clockwork.

Excuse me, but I only browse MMO-specific hate subreddits and me being middle-aged has nothing to do with me being jaded because of the sad state of the MMO genre.

No this is the Peria Chronicles waiting room.

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Okay so it is the jaded Boomer thread, gotcha. some people never grow up I guess, sad.

Because they usually have the requirement of having already cleared the tier. If you don't clear in the first few weeks, you're fucked.
Also, I prefer not to make MMO raiding a second job. I'm fine with raiding a few hours a few times per week, but I don't plan to stick there and reclear it every week for the rest of the tier, as quite a few serious/hardcore groups expect. Nor do I want to take a week off work just to try to clear week 1.

I thought they were well designed, but I didn't really enjoy doing them
While I love the idea of putting platforming in an MMO, something about the basic movement mechanics always felt off. Just from a sensory feedback point of view, it didn't feel good to me.
Perhaps it's also because I wasn't hugely fond of the class I was playing (warrior) but it's too late for it to matter regardless I guess

I'm just playing all kinds of mmos trying to kill time until Project BBQ aka Dungeon Fighter 3D is released.

So you haven't done ultimate but say the game is easy. That's like playing a game on easy mode and complaining it's too easy because you won't set foot in a harder difficulty. Then you whine about artificial difficulty because you can't find players because you're too lazy to commit to a static or make your own like everyone else.

Okay General Lieutenant Commander of the Badass Legions Army

Is there any hope for Camelot Unchained or is that stuck in development hell?

I'm not the one who said the game is easy, just that the hardest part is finding players who don't have the brain of a goldfish. Can't really solo ultimate, no matter how good one might be.

The statics I were in were mostly rather mediocre and had players who did the same mistake time and again without any signs of improvement. I usually quit either after I grew frustrated by doing the fight essentially flawlessly but wiping because of others, or when the static drama grew too exasperating. Never managed to get very far with these.
I have progressed up to the second form of the last instance in a tier, but that did little good when I basically needed to reprog the faust fight with pugs every time I attempted that.

I don't care about final fantasy name
I don't care about WoW
I don't care about gays because I don't choose the LGBT datacenter

I still enjoy FFXIV because it does a lot of things well with polish, it doesn't do everything perfect or well but those flaws are minor especially compared to a lot of other MMOs that have gamebreaking flaws.

Today I will remind them (of what could have been)

youtube.com/watch?v=hHu4Na0lsd0

>don't care about character customization
>don't care about story
>don't care about grinding
>don't care about quests
>really love MMO raids and dungeons
it hurts bros

No matter how hard you cope they still are MMOs by the backend technical aspect.

FFXIV is probably the only modern MMO on the market that doesn't run like shit when there are 200 people on screen. Every other MMO chokes with this because for some reason they optimize for CPU 1-2 threads instead of 8.

Somewhat related but what is the big deal about phantasy star online 2?
Why does everyone keep saying its the best mmo ever made?

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>still are MMOs by the backend technical aspect.
They are? Name one modern MMO that involves more players than old, non-massive, FPS game, like 32vs32. Which one involves more than 64 players on the same place playing the game (not in hubs)?

Thats not an MMO, not even an RPG

Good single player adventure game

>all these wowfags seething at the truth

That's because FFXIV will just cull characters when there are more than 50 or so on the screen
If you have ever been in Eureka or large servers' gathering spots (e.g. Blamung QS), you would've noticed how characters just pop in/out based on their proximity to you

No its not, its your post WOTLK WOW clone trash.

Modern day MMOs are utter trash that suck the life out of people, but casual social MMOs like the old school MMOs were great when they tried to be virtual D&D with thousands of players, but now they're all system riddled nightmares, where playing them is like a second job because the developers are developing like they're creating a competitive game, or a story driven game, and not a community driven game.

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...

No idea, but I grew up playing PSO on gamecube splitscreen with my brother and friends, we put like 1000 hours into that sucker
So I know I'll at least give it a try when it comes to NA

>name something that isn't a hub
>link posts talking about hubs
welp

Guild Wars 2

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You can manually adjust the cap yourself with a ini tweak

Khlousia isn't a hub it's a persistent zone.

seethe all you want, it is and you know it is.

Trust me I know that feel all too well.

A dungeon should be like a whole new module, not a 20 minute boss rush.

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how do I do that on ps4?

And all these guys were partying of fighting?

Now, this one counts.

Even with 50 players on screen it runs better than other modern MMOs with the same amount of players on screen. I mean just compare a BFA mythic raid with a FFXIV alliance raid. FFXIV gets higher averages and lower 1% and 0.1% dips than WoW does despite WoW being graphically worse than FFXIV.

can you link to one post in this thread that says something positive about nu-wow

the existence of this game makes me want to die

>Brings back the RPG
In what fucking way?
Your only choices are what your character will say during a cutscene that affects absolutely nothing.
There are no fucking builds or specializations on FFXIV, 0, none, no way to try a wacky build because the game doesn't even let you do anything to your character at all.
>Race choice is meaningless
>Jobs are homogenized
>Advanced jobs are just fucking titles
>No builds
>No gear choices (Vertical progression)

I like FFXIV, but hell fucking no, it is not a RPG, it is a themepark experience.

When you do a fate you're fighting something with others. I mean just Google Odin fate or something and you'll see what I mean.

>Buttblasted GW baby enters the thread

>WOW being graphically worse

FFXIV textures and models are dogshit and the spell effects are shit tier color blurbs with a hazing effect to hide how shitty they are.

Im sorry but FFXIV is an eyesore to look at, and was designed for the PS3, and looks it to boot.

Dial 8.

>with others
How many? I asked for a minimum of 65.

>just Google
Burden of proof in on your side.

I hate how everyone looks in this game
>ah yes, allow me to wear the most over the top retarded looking outfit; fit with glowing armour, wings, halos & neon dyes.
>perfect.

What game/thing is the left image portraying?

Feel free to do that, at least you will be useful in death

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Don't get me wrong, FFX is well optimized and I'm with you on some of the MMO stuff, but comparing them to older FPS lobbies is silly
>everyone has near identical static models
>everyone can only fire one weapon at a time, most of which are hitscan
>all 64 people are never fighting in the same area
>about 1/3rd of the players in the match are dead at any given time
vs. mmos?
>everyone has unique models with overdesigned gaudy armor with retarded spell effects and auras
>they are all firing 10 different spell effects at each other and enemies
>fuck load of NPC enemies to render in addition to the players
I mean come on. And do you really think how many players can be on a screen determines how good the game is? Or whether or not it has good MMO mechanics?

You are generally retarded.

Congratulations.

There is one already. It's called Second Life.

I concur. I try to have a theme for my characters and stick to it with how they look.

I just wish Anet would go ahead and made outfits actual sets of separate parts, instead of something you have to wear in its entirety. It would unlock so many different options for fashion.

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Being told a story and exporing a story are two very different things.

MMOs have never ever been about being told a story, it was always about your characters story within that world, and not their interactions with the game's cut and paste storylines, but their interactions with other players.

I will always have many fond memories of the shit me and my corp did on EVE, but FFXIV? Everything is forgettable b-tier fantasy garbage that almost bars you from actually engaging in the MMO aspect of the game.

Then when it comes to the MMO elements of FFXIV its the worst parts of MMOs period, dungeons and raids are fucking boring when they're designed to be faceroll and repeated on higher difficulties, and everything outside of that in FFXIV is chores.

I mean I've never played it so I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure second life doesn't have dungeons, raids, PvP, and actual gameplay

Everquest's dungeon Lower Guk, which was a multilayer zone full of elite monsters, this is lower guk which was full of undead, controlled by the liches on the deepest levels.

youtube.com/watch?v=P3i3EwA42pM

there's more players there but the person in the video hit the character display cap. everyone in the chat saying lfg or inv are people on their way or not loaded in.

>ESO
pfhahaHAHAHAHAHAH

Yikes, this is some extreme autism you have user.
No matter how much you flail and spit your dummy out. FFXIV is still an MMORPG.
>dungeons and raids are boring.
Thats a you problem not any one elses.

I'm pretty sure you can actually recreate most of that with player-made scripts and assets.

>1 raid boss
>1 raid
>$60 + monthly fee + tip
Pay up.

Well shit, if all the MMOs are bad, what do I sink my time into?

PSO2

TBQH party finder is what killed MMOs for me, I miss arguing with idiots in party finder chat in the barrens.

I was being lax comparing in with old FPS. I mean, I won't be that mean to compare it to real MMOs, like RO or L2 that featured hundreds of players doing stuff.

>And do you really think how many players can be on a screen determines how good the game is? Or whether or not it has good MMO mechanics?
Yes, the "Massive" in MMO is important, else you got a MORPG I guess. Nu-MMOs don't really feature the RPG part, but that's another topic.

>character display cap
OH NONONOONONO massive-bros we got too cocky!

Now, seriously, I need to have faith that more players exist? Is FFXIV some sort of sect?

The ultimate MMO will be released in 7 weeks.

WoW is graphically worse on a objective level. Lower polygon count on everything, missing advanced effects (real time character reflections, transparent lighting, tessellation, etc).

on top of that it runs worse than FFXIV, go figure.

As opposed to what? WoW

>1 new raid
>1 area for said raid
>$60 + monthly + tip + money for gold
>oh and we will let you play the content when we decide you can.

When was the last time you gave the game a go, user? It was a dumpster fire when it released, but it has formed into a respectable game over the years.

As opposed to fucking not playing MMOs like a fucking goy.

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It still is a dumpster fire and nothing has changed in the slightest.

.t Bought Imperial edition at launch.
.t Re-installed the game last month to try
.t lasted 2 hours with the worse than skyrim combat shite.

Boss rushes are shit tier dungeon design

I don't know what else to tell you other than go in-game on a high pop server during a boss fate and do a player search of how many people are in the same area.

MMOs are dead play Vindictus.

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Being marketed as an mmo doesn’t make it into one. Bootlickers like you will cling to anything to defend their precious corporation, however that won’t change the facts

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Just come and play WAR

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Why is everyone so fucking... ugh IDK fucking pro-LGBT in this fucking game. Also the fucking ERPs they have in fucking LA chat. Fuck everyone who plays this shit. The only thing fun to do is trolling a bunch of people in WvW.

Its literally most dungeons even "old" WoW ones you keep fucking referencing you fucking boomer faggot.

>Walk in
>kill some trash
>do a boss
>kill some trash
>do a boss
>maybe tp back to start and do some more trash in a different wing
>do another boss
>maybe get some loot

Youre a fucking retard. Maybe MMOs are just not for you at all.

>there is a lot of people, but you can't play nor interact with them
Then No Man's Sky was a MMORPG after all? Yea Forums BTFO!

I haven't played FFX and have no stake in this argument, but I think you make a good point
In online games, you don't need a story because you have real people there to make their own stories. A good online game is one that encourages people to show their personality in how they play, rather than relying on a written story line to give the gameplay context. When it's well designed, the game itself is enough.

quite the contrary, most people who actually played it consider it to be p2w garbage that's only saving grace is its decent combat system. the problem is, like 99% of the people who played PSO in the 90s/00s literally can't confirm or deny this by playing the game since SEGA never bothered to localize it for an actual fucking decade.

gosh dang i was starting to forget about vindictus shill
welcome back

Because nostalgia for PSO1.

If you really did give it a go recently and thought it was the same as during launch, then you do not remember launch very well. If your issue is with the mechanics, then that's a difference in opinion and just fine.

It better not be some Asian garbage

DDON > Dragon Nest > Vindictus.
I'd rather wait for Project BBQ
youtube.com/watch?v=1RG8Y254L5Q
At least DFO creators know what to do.

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Wasn't it dead and buried?

>A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG, or more commonly, MMO) is an online game with large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, on the same persistent virtual world server.

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I've stopped playing it 3 months ago after we finished our last trifecta on 4-man content
>Shit performance
>Shit servers and connection during rush hour
>Buggy mess
>Balance all over the place
>1 mini raid + 4 dungeons PER year
>Ever decreasing content every xpac
>Increasing monetization of an already heavily monetized game

>The amount of seethe from WoW, GW2, ESO etc babies here.
Its fucking amazing and loving every second.
This is the new king of MMOs.
Fucking suck its big juicy cock whilst your MMO fades into dust.
(BTW this score is higher than WotLK and TBC)
Enjoy being a seething retard whilst others have fun :).

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No it doesn't. Hero engine is still there with the implementation that is somehow fucking worse than swtor one. Combat is still atrocious spastic fest with laughably bad animations.

>15 critics
>324 user ratings
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You can interact with them and play with them. But there's a cap on how many characters you can see at once to not make your PC explode but there's no cap for chat so you can see endless scrolling of memes and text from all players.

Most dungeons in old WOW weren't designed to be done repeatedly for 2 fucking years on a single character though.

Once I got my hand of fucking justice, I never went back to emp unless it was to help a friend.

So the initial experience of doing a dungeon being a long, daunting task is better because you're not going to fucking do it 20 times on a friday night for your mythic good boy chest, fuck I had more fun opening a random chest in a vanilla dungeon

Give me 10 or so quests, and a dungeon that challenges me to actually fucking complete them, not these linear, LFD, grind fests that have multiple difficulty modes because zoomers can't into group gameplay.

Isn't this game fucking garbage until lv50 or so? Was thinking about trying it but there's no way it's worth putting that much time in before it "gets good."

This is my last hope for a good MMORPG, a fucking Korean one where everyone looks like they are in a KPOP group. Time to die...

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>Dragon Nest
I remember when it was freed from the clutches of Nexon and it was still left to die, Also Project BBQ is vaporware.
No, new character soon!

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wow has more content in a single patch than xiv in a $40 expansion lmao

Like some sort of hub but everywhere? Whoa, maybe some day we'll reach the technology of 20 years ago and we can play with hundreds of players in a MMORPG.

Except FFXIV's servers aren't persistant, they're phased/sharded/roomed.

Legion would've been a god tier expansion if the Legendary gating wasn't the most autistic luck based shit ever in the first couple major patches. I at least enjoyed it much more than BFA which had literally nothing for me to work with in terms of character progression at release.

Exactly marketed as one.

Sorry, meant 6 weeks.
And no, it's western.

What more faith you need that more players exist? you can visibly see more players pop in and out during the video and count how many people are typing in the zone chat.

>8.2
>more content than the expansion
This is some fucking delusion user.

>falling again for the "new gook MMO" meme
You guys never learn, right? When was the last time Korea released and supported a good MMORPG?

>I'd rather wait for Project BBQ
you'd better find something to do for a decade then.

That's the dictionary definition of a MMO.

do you even know what a persistent world is

yes theres more endgame content in 8.2 than endgame content in shadowbringers
I don't care about your leveling dungeons and cutscenes quests

see Shit isn't "Massive", hence not a MMO.

>leveled through every WoW expansion exclusively by doing dungeons
>including vanilla which took 1.5 years
>hit max level, continue doing dungeons until best gear is obtained
>Legion brings Mythic+, continue doing dungeons forever
Me like dungeons

>Wow Vanilla about to launch
>mmos dying out

Yea ok

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The only fucking saving grace for legion was Antorus and Mage Tower, Mage Tower actually gave players who casually played the game a realistic goal to overcome that wasn't just more grinding, and Antorus was the first raid in a while where every fight wasn't a fucking straight up DPS race with instant wipe mechanics on every boss, it was refreshing as fuck.

Oh, so most waste your fucking time

They are persistent you fucking mongoloid.
You pick the world you want and you share that world with everyone else who also picked that world. There is no layering unlike WoW
The first 4 weeks of an expansion they create 3 instances for the new maps to decrease server load so things work out smoother and then they remove it and everyone shares the same shit again.

see

>I asked for a minimum of 65.
there's more than 65 unique nameplates there fighting

Man I sure miss the days when you had to walk everywhere, quests were all boring fetch quests or long walks on empty maps, and you had to rely on bad players to do anything in game.

top fucking kek
>one raid about a fat chick and a fat race
>more content
lmfao blizzdrones really are retarded.

>They're persistant mongoloid
>Exept when they're not
Seething.

thats subjective. If you don't like that, that's fine. But on the benefit side it made Vanilla feel like a living breathing world with people everywhere doing different shit

what are you doing right now? leveling alts while waiting for the new update?
in wow people are still at the beginning of the raid tier and it will take months for most of them to clear it

cope
youtube.com/watch?v=rrnw7XuGTJQ

While being a shitty game to play that wastes your time for $15 a month

There's a few that aren't too bad. Personally, I'm looking forward to Pantheon, Camelot Unchained, and Crowfall. Still kinda sad that Everquest Next got binned, even though it's been years.

If you think any AAA studio in the world is even capable to make a game like vanila you're absolutely deluded
So while vanilla is gonna be a breath of fresh here (unless for people who played p servers for years), it's dead and buried and there's never gonna be any new game designed like it

what is the definition of persistent mmo world to you then? give a clear definition and not "LOL IT'S NOT LAYERING/SHARDING/MEMES"

>FFX is the best MMO because it can have the largest number of players on the screen, which means it is the most massive
>FFX is the best MMO because it has better graphics than a game running on a 20 year old engine
>FFX is the best MMO because it has a story
So this is FFX fags are resorting to since they can't defend how shitty the gameplay is?

MMOs are dead, people have the attention span of a cocaine moskito.

Nigga people beat Azshara day fucking one
>B-but mythic...
No one except poopsocking retards who play the game as a litteral job gives a fuck about mythic, and no one gives a fuck about the gear because it will all be vendor trash by normal mode 8.3 raid and m+ gear

>it will take months

Imagine thinking this is good design.
btw people are already getting mythic clears... So there goes your "months"

I loved Skyforge when it first released, nice sci-fi aesthetic and I really liked the FFX style sphere grid where you could roam around and unlock classes and skills.

>It will take months
I got the 3 day fucking trial and beat azshara in a day, don't be retarded.

If it has instances and shards, it is not an MMO. You're basically playing a lobby game, you dumb FF trannies

>No one except poopsocking retards who play the game as a litteral job gives a fuck about mythic
the absolute state of xiv players who think mythic is for tryhards lmao
no wonder your game has no content, all you can do is walk from npc to npc to watch cutscenes

It did a lot of things well, but the timegating killed it before it had a chance to live

>No one except poopsocking retards who play the game as a litteral job gives a fuck about mythic
Bro there are 4 difficulty modes
Mythic ends up just being a slightly overtuned hard mode.

I'm looking forward to Classic because I want to play an Undead female Warrior.

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it will take like a week for the best guilds in the world who raids 15 hours per day, but for most people who aren't tryhard with the best players in the world and unlimited play time, it will take months and they will probably not even clear it as the new raid comes out

If it wasn't persistent then everything in a zone would cease to exist or develop if there are 0 players in it. Think of it like a MOBA. If there are 0 players in a match, do you think the creeps continually march and runes persistently cycle through on their own? of course not. it's a instanced match. meanwhile in a MMO like WoW or FFXIV that have persistent worlds, NPCs continue to roam and battle random mobs on the field, world quests and boss spawns continue to persist and cycle through without player intervention, that dead tauren player that hasn't logged in months his body is still there undisturbed.

point is there's a large difference between non persistent worlds and persistent worlds.

A LOT of mmo's have idiotic shit like this, it isn't unique to GW2. I've played a ton of mmo's over the years and honestly, I find the customization system in GW2 to be one of the better ones. Yeah, you can make something over the top, neon, just plain dumb...but you can just as easily make some cool, grounded and unique. It's not that hard.

>unlimited playtime
>fighting 1 boss over and over till the next one...

Where have I heard that done before?
Oh yeah FFXIV.
And I guess any other MMOs at this time.

I'm proud of you user but you should probably go back to xiv if you only play baby difficulty

I asked for players m8. IRC isn't a MMO.

For sure. It was an interesting system but it really fucked newer players. Not sure how you would even do something like that in an MMO, have 'limitless progression'. I really liked the grind for cosmetics though, unlocking class costumes and upgraded versions of them.

Osrs

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>Nigga people beat Azshara day fucking one
how is this any different from faggots in XIV beating the new raid boss day 1 on the easiest difficulty? I don't think you understand that the true raid difficulty is now relegated to the hardest one since every MMO while the easier difficulties are created because they want 90% of the playerbase to be able to "experience the content".

Ultima Online had instances, does that make it not a MMO?

gametyrant.com/news/ultima-online-spent-3-years-developing-systems-that-were-destroyed-by-players

>p2w
its literally the least p2w f2p game in fucking existence you absolute mongoloid, you literally do not need to pay for anything

I don't play XIV, I was a long time WOWfag, but the mythic raiding bullshit killed every guild on my server and I was stuck pugging heroic

And after 10 years of anti-progression game design, the gear loses its fucking fun factor when it gets replaced by litteral world trash drops every patch, or in the case of trinkets, gets nerfed into the ground if they're actually good.

Mythic and Mythic+ is not fun, Its Ion Hozzikostas' wet dream, but for an MMORPG these systems are boring as shit, makes you hate your community because billy, the guild retard keeps blowing up the instant wipe mechanic and you can't replace him because everyone you recruit just becomes billy the retard 2.0. Meanwhile getting bracers in your fucking M+ chest that aren't titanforged, arn't socketed, aren't tertiary is garbage.

And the content itself is just plain bad, 20 minute long dungeons are boring as shit after the first time doing them, only autistic speedrun fags care about it, and no blizzard trying to make M+ an esport doesn't make it any less shit, WOW's PVE content is at an all time fucking low, for casual players you're stuck with retard modes and random groups, and for hardcore players you're stuck wiping on a boss 100+ times for an achievement and gear that only makes you kill that same boss 1% faster.

the servers are full of players

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>the sense of wonder, exploration and excitement is now dead thanks to wikis, add ons and data mining
>you will never go back to a time when MMOs were truly magical

At least I experienced it, I guess.

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>Which one involves more than 64 players on the same place playing the game (not in hubs)?
Elder Scrolls Online

i wonder, whatever happened to lord of the rings online? used to play it a while back but gave up during mirkwood. is it still going?

>Mythic and Mythic+ is not fun
it is for me
bfa has flaws but mythic and mythic+ is not one of them

retard

>and no one gives a fuck about the gear because it will all be vendor trash by normal mode 8.3 raid and m+ gear
The same could be said about any MMO.

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if you pick the "Massive" part, most likely
>Runescape
>WoW
>ESO

>btw people are already getting mythic clears
Mythic literally opened today. The top guilds are still 3/8 at writing of this post. Stop talking out of your ass.

FFXIV is the highest rated PC game of 2019 on Metacritic right now. How does this make you feel that other MMOs are dying while FFXIV is growing?

Guild Wars 1 is the best MMO ever created.
inb4 cakesniffing retards that claim it isn't an MMO.

Yikes, I'm all for the hate WoW is getting right now - BFA is the worst expansion any MMO has ever had in the history of videogames and I hope Activision drops into the abyss.
But of all the things they've been doing wrong, Mythic difficulty isn't one of them. You can clear it easily raiding 5-6 hours a week with a decent raid leader. It's well tuned for experienced players without being overly prohibitive.

>There will never be a proper RO sequel

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it is but ARR is such a large pleb filter that they won't get to experience it. reminds me of how people would quit at FFXI by the dunes or before it and not get to experience the kino of the expansions.

>3/8 on day one
>MONTHS OF UNLIMITED PLAYTIME

Top fucking kek.

Not him but why is you're server full of the most absolute retards in primal? Every other run I see some dude fuck up a mechanic constantly or just be absolutely retarded and they're always from Lamia.

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Sad, because if mediocrity and a lack of originality can bring you to the top then there's really no hope left for the genre.

>Mewody-do Everynyan
kill yourself

How exactly did FF14's jobs get homogenized?
It has more variety than anything in WoW currently at least for sure.

They all want that sweet WoW audience money.

Mindless zerg: The Game

you make it sound like there's a MMO out there that's good and original and should be popular but it's not because it's trash.

it takes months for most guilds, early bosses are easier and gear check fights comes near the end

People are just crying because tanks are forced to tank now and healers are forced to heal.

Thats essentially it. It was blown way out of proportion.

Big fish little pond. The entire genre is stagnant as fuck, it's only real competition is WoW, and that shit has been on a vertical drop for years.
Prove me wrong.

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It's improved nothing. It doubled down on the theme park, class skillsets keep getting stripped down and simplified as if they weren't braindead already, builds don't exist, learning a class' potato brain rotation and learning raid bosses unchanging fight patterns is about the only challenge the game has. It's like a few button presses above being a MOBA but even a MOBA has more depth with build/item choice

You mean the entire PC library is stagnant if a MMO is beating them in critic scores.

WoW was fucked since Cata, Ion is just one part of the problem.

You could make that argument if the same game didn't have "NPC walking> 2 lines of dialogue> *nod*>walks off screen" cutscenes and a million fucking "return to the waking sands" breadcrumb quests.

WoWfags who have played since vanilla realize what they lose with all the little conveniences added to their game over the years and that's why retail is so cucked and so many people want to play classic instead. XIV was in the unique position where this was the baseline for them since all of this shit was in since 2.0 and Square can do no wrong so you get people like yourself who unironically look at the the game dropping the MMO part of "MMORPG" and think "...and that's a good thing!".

featuring: "limited" virtual goods in the cash shop.

Nigga I bet you can't do six heat blasts in a hypercharge window because you suck shit.

You got RO2 and RO2, dude.

None

There are some good indie MMOs out there to play, but they're indie thus are almost unplayable at times due to their buggy, janky nature, but they offer something different and unique, like H&H or Project Gorgon.

But when it comes to MMOs who actually have a budget? None. Koreans and china have pretty much killed the eastern MMO scene with F2P waifu dressup trash with dead worlds filled with terrible monster grinds

Western MMO market has been non stop WOW clones, and they never copy the better part of WOW, the part that made WOW the phenomenon it is today, the persistent open world with charming, immersive world design, and instead focus on system riddled, leveling rush, end game focused boss grinds that are piss easy, but made to waste a ton of time so they only thing it challenges is your patience.

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I said proper

Ion is just the posterboy for Team B.

Negro I haven't even touched the game since 2 months into Stormblood. How long are you going to pay to get spoonfed the same fucking gameplay and ugly fucking gear over and over.

heroic azshara took a few days actually

Fanbase killed it
Too dated

Literally nothing but people afking in the ugly ass main lobby and glamouring gear.

How long are you going to keep dilating that moist depression

Shadowbringers is an expansion. Not exactly an MMO that's been made in the last few years.

It isn't abandoned lmao

>Claiming a game is good because someone that gets paid to say game is good said game is good

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You don't have to do world bosses or WvW, you know. You can run dungeons, fractals and raids. Or if that doesn't strike your fancy, you can go for 100% world completion, work towards crafting a legendary, unlocking one of the harder to obtain mounts, hunt for achievements, play structured PvP etc etc.

There are none but I pray that Chronicles of Elyria will be half decent if/when it finally gets released

Correct

I've been having a lot of good time in Elder Scrolls Online DESU.

It's also beating them by user score as well.
>inb4 paid reviews

>phenomenal
lol
after playing since 2.0 and playing through heavensward/shitblood i can safely say
>story was decent, but i never really gave two fucks about the story, emet was pretty cool though
>gunbreaker was alright and i had fun trolling heals
>dont give a fuck about dancer and theyre shit anyway right now
>still felt like i was playing a single player game even though i was with friends
>every dungeon was still the same old shit with a new coat of paint
>the raids are going to be the same old shit with a new coat of paint
>whatever else gets released will continue to be bland, unoriginal and boring, only appealing to nostalgia fags and onionss obsessed with the lore
glad you enjoy your cookie cutter bullshit though, im doing giving the fucking gooks my money for this trite

That's mostly because tentacle dude is janked. Which is weird because he worked fine on the ptr

>You don't have to play entire portions of a game

Everquest had the same thing for certain areas to prevent crashing, does that make Everquest not a MMO as well?

ESO actually has a lot going for it if you're sick of the gear treadmill in most mmos. Also more games need solo raid difficulty shit like Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Beating that shit at just under 300cp felt like a legit achievement.

>XIV releases new raids
>they're all cleared within an hour
Why can't MMOs do end game right?

>FFXIV
>was designed for the PS3
if you play ESO or BDO for at least 100hours, you'll start to realise how "designed for Windows XP" WoW actually is

I can count the number of MMO players that play PC games outside of MMOs on a phantom limb.

if you're done with the game, mind posting your lodestone? i wanna check your clears.

That's the one where your dude ages, dies, and reincarnates, right?

not savage, only story mode raid.

Because all people want to raid, not just 0.1% elitists.

I love XIV's fanbase and their desperate attempts to defend it's every fault with "it's not the game that's shit, it's you because you don't have this clear before this date!"

Casuals don't deserve to see content if they can't do it. Stop this free handout bullshit. It's whats killing MMOs.

nah I'm just curious to see peoples progress after they quit the game. it gives deeper insight on things like why they quit.

That's the one. The crafting system they have planned looks pretty neat too, like you actually have to manually move the metal to the forge and strike it on the anvil and quench etc. What they have planned is so ambitious and their progress so slow it will probably just end up as Star Citizen tier failware.

Just post it nigger. You don't care about the game anymore. If you have nothing to hide and you are 100% confident in your claims then go for it.

That's the thing with GW2. With no traditional endgame, you are free to choose to engage in the activities you want to. If you do not like the zerg-y nature of world boss/WvW trains, then you can ignore that content with no repercussions.

aww shit, forgot about that one and PSO2

you're the reason why your old MMO lost so many players.

So you want to raid? Work for it, learn your fucking class to the max, gather your best pre raid gear, instead of pointless doing dailies and shit like that use your play time to learn how to git gud instead of wanting everything handed to you.
You know what got me into raiding in classic wow? Seeing the raiders walk around the cities in all their mighty glory and wanting to be like them, having a defined goal set by ME, not by the fucking game and working towards it was what glued me to game all those years. You think easy content makes everyone like your game? It justs makes it so you get bored after 1 week.

>stop this free handout bullshit
That would be hardcore raiders who only get what they want thanks to the millions of casuals funding the game. If you feel that way I guess you wouldn't mind raids only being available to a higher subscription rate pass

That's not how things work.
0,1% can't pay enough money for developer to cater for their needs.

Buy the genre literally peaked and then started to lose players when they let the casuals clear all the content.

>You know what got me into raiding in classic wow?
You never played it, zoomer, because anyone who played won't talk about learning class to the max, while everything you needed is 40 ppl who have no life to grind consumables.

>and was designed for the PS3
reminder that WoW is mostly played by 3rd worlders using PCs with specs of a PS2 on sweatshops.

>genre literally peaked
Around wotlk, when everyone were able to raid.

there has not been a good MMO released since FFXI. there is no debating this.

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don't you have welfare gear to farm in your new content patch?

wow, so many people seething over ffxiv in this thread.

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The real raid releases in 2 weeks and usually has a super final boss that you can't face in the casual mode, so your arguments are ignorant and retarded.

Go figure, when everyone is allowed to raid, the community started enforcing bullshit like gearscore.

Now in BFA everyone has welfare gear on par with raid gear, thus they need raider.io

If you want to talk about that objectively, WOTLK had the highest number of MMO subscribers in the history of this entire planet. You know what WOTLK introduced? Dungeon finder and easily accessible raids.

>hurrdurr retail
Fucking retard zoomer.

>Korea
>good MMOs
pick one

Why is everyone just standing there flailing their arms?

>holy that combat system looks fucking amazing please be g-
>nexon

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>seething
people don't like your weeb wow clone, that's all

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just MMO things.

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Progress in the game is more often than not irrelevant to the reason why people quit. It's more likely that they got bored doing the same shit day in and day out, or that their friends moved on to other games/real life responsibilities.
I played the game daily for years but now I work 60+ hours a week and I can't justify paying a sub for less than 2 hours play time per day and everyone that I played with prior to Shadowbringers release had fucked off to other games or to erp in VRchat.
GW2 has and always will be a cashgrab shitshow that gets worse and worse with every subsequent update it receives. Do everyone a favor and quit shilling that steaming pile of garbage.
There are only two posters in this thread, you and me.

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So are you going to post your lodestone or not? I at least want to see your parses to see if you're better than me or worse than my PS4 buddy.

Developers are Neople, creators of DFO. So it's not that bad.

FFXIV would get a second look from me if it wasn't subscription based on top of being expansion pack themed. There's just no way I can justify $15 a month on a bog standard themepark MMO but with a heavy layer of weeb.

So, literally what I said?
>wotlk reaches peak number of players
>all of them can raid
>they get bored and quit

Blame the devs for not giving casuals something interesting to do with their endgame. In WoW and so many of its clones the endgame entirely revolves around raiding and makes it seem like a prestigious thing, so of course that's going to attract casuals who have nothing better to do and want their money's worth.

they only starting quitting when cata dropped and changed the game entirely. before cata on the very last patch of wrath 3.3.5a, it had the highest number of subs.

Everyone could raid since TBC. So no, that's not what you said. So after everyone raided in TBC, numbers started to increase.

What kind of settings are you using holy shit are your eyes bleeding?Was it simply for the screenshot and if so,why?It looks awful.

user, your optimism makes me smile. Please stay pure.

soulless

these gook games always look better in video

it's only $13 which translates into 43 cents per day.

kek I remember you from like 5 years ago.

The game isn't remotely like that anymore. Also it has become incredibly P2W (+20??) and even the whales are leaving in droves. Literally no one plays this shit anymore unless they can't cope with wasting like a decade of their lives in a deranged sunk cost fallacy rationalization.

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No but there's a really busy SWG private server that has devs who actually make decent quality new content the original game never had, last I read they were adding in a whole new planet.

What optimism? I played DFO and it's pretty good.

The only part of the attunement process that was a casual filter was getting all 4 dungeons veteran silver medal. People choked especially on SSM Silver hence why they could never get attuned. Everything else was fairly easy.

Can someone summarize this thread? I can't tell that even a single person has answered OP's original question. I'd really like to know the answer.

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Can't.

Litteral retards ruined the MMORPG for everyone, low IQ faggots started playing these highly social games where you needed a party of adventurers to go out and explore the world, they did nothing but bitch and bitch that they couldn't play the game solo, and they bitched and bitched and bitched.

Then WOW came out, and WOW was decent for 2004, it was solo friendly, but not faceroll, it was still grindy enough, and mechanically well designed enough that it naturally promoted grouping up with others rather then brute force soloing everything, because if you're undergeared, and pulled more then 1 mob at a time without CC, you were pretty much dead, even for non-elite mobs.

Then WOW blew up, why? Because of its charm, and its community, the first 3 years of the game was solid, they designed 1-60 well, and that was able to hook, and keep players, they were given achievable goals, such as gear, talents, new spells and spell ranks, ect, each a massively powerful dopamine hit that kept them hooked.

But thats not what other MMO developers saw, they saw everyone soloing their way to end game and then world first racing and bragging about it, while most players were casuals in their 30s, the greater perception of the game was that it was played by sociopathic kids with addiction problems, because thats all any news outlet would talk about at the time.

But it was also making 75 million dollars a month in subs alone, thats money, thats what developers wanted. And because of this they went "What does WOW do well that other MMOs lack" and instead of going "Well the world is persistant and not segregated by S shaped hallways" or "The gameplay is solid with classes that synergize well with one another" they went "Solo" and "End game"

Thus every MMO became a repetitive, end game focused grind, and that has been an issue every MMORPG has had since 2008, that or they're f2p trash.

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$13 is $154 a year. I can buy a lot with that.

If they stuck with an expansion pass model I'll bite, but as it is right now there's no way I can do that since I don't play enough. Maybe if I was a NEET... but then $13 would hurt a lot more.

Because that shit takes a time, casuals couldn't really raid before and they liked the novelty, for half-expansion.

Now that's some revisionism.

the answer to OP's question is play Vindictus

"All MMOs are shit except the one I'm currently playing." That's EVERY MMO thread in a nutshell.

Who's telling you to subscribe for 12 months? I don't get your logic.

I'm playing ShB as we speak and while i enjoy it more or less, it's fucking nothing special, it's the same rehashed formula that's been going on for 6 fucking years now. I'll play until my friends get inevitably burnt out on the current expac and then drop it.

Overall FFXIV is straight up worse than pretty much any mmo ive ever played, such as DDO, and that isn't to say ot's bad per se but without the FF skin no one would touch this game, it's really nothing special

You think I'm hitting end game in a month to enjoy it? Really not possible with the amount of free time I have. Subscription models are defunct.

>Buy a game
>Can't play it unless you pay even more
Only a fucking idiot plays subscription based games.

It also sucks that MMOs seem to be beaten days after release, with all the beta and jump-start bullshit there are guides for everything within a week of release. It's impossible to get that sense of mystery and exploration.

In your mind, would him quitting before actuallt clearing content matter? All that says is the game wasnt good enough to keep him around long enoughnto do the content

WoWfags SEETHING because Shadowbringers is a better expansion than any other WoW expansion, let alone the dumpster fire that is BFA. WoW was the WoW killer all along.

>Now that's some revisionism.
Not really. TBC raids aren't hidden by 24/7 farm like Vanilla.

>ywn go back and castle siege with your homies on epic 200vs200
i miss lineage 2 brehs

nigga casuals could raid in wrath since the first tier. every casual did voa,naxx,obsidian,eternity

When paying ~$1600 a month on rent and utilities, $15 a month is pocket change.

No, they are hidden behind attunement and progression, which is worse. No casual cleared SWP.

So, what I said?

>without the FF skin no one would touch this game
that doesn't make sense since FFXIV 1.0 had the same name and brand behind it but it flopped in all areas. so people obviously don't care about the FF name if the game itself is shit.

Go play it then.

>Buy game
>Get to play for a month before you have to buy it again
>Also buy again every time an expansion comes out on top of monthly
ew

>TBC raids aren't hidden by 24/7 farm like Vanilla.
[Thalassian] L O L

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>No casual cleared SWP
Is that a joke?

i cant because gatchafags ruined every single mmorpg (this one included) and everyone fucking quit

This mentality is why people like you remain poor.

1.0 was a lot worse than what we have now, user.

>casuals couldn't really raid before and they liked the novelty, for half-expansion.
is what you said.

but casuals were raiding for the entire expansion and guess what it had the highest number of active subs ever. it was cata that dropped by the ball by changing the old zones and fucking every class in the butt.

I don't miss getting ganked by faggot BR swarms

>FFXI
based

I tried out BDO thanks to that game pass event. I now see why they're happy to just give the game away. Endgame is a grind to be relevant in pvp and everyone just buys things from the store to make it as convenient as possible. Seriously, even beginner guides recommend buying enough pets to have 5 total, which are 10 bucks each.
A shame because the combat is actually pretty fun. It's very flashy and satisfying thanks to the sounds and visuals. I've tried the other action MMOs and was usually disappointed. This one was smart with using only a few buttons but also combining inputs between them to activate more skills.

Anyway, how'd Lost Ark game end up doing?

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Is this Paragon?

No game in the hands of nexon has lived more than a couple years with the exception of maplestory and maybe mabinogi.
I'm pretty confident this game will be technically great but nexon's monetization scheme for it and the magnitude of the grind will probably kill it rapidly.
I loved vindictus so much but the enhancement system was pure concentrated cancer.

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They're all bad right now but there are some MMOs coming out with older hat design philosiphies that dont involve diluting the game for normies such as Camelot Unchained, but we cant expect to see anything of those until 2021 at the earliest

>When paying ~$1600 a month on rent
>Not having your own apartments
lmao @ amerimutts

my 34 year old buddy works a full time job and has young kids and he still managed to make it to endgame in just 4 months.

I thought MMOs were played by boomers now, not underaged NEETs.

Thus MMORPGs in their current state are doomed, we haven't seen any real advancement of the MMORPG genre since WOW eliminated the need for S shaped hallways and loading zones in 2004, if anything, MMORPGs have been devolving focusing on instancing players away from eachother and giving them their own special snowflake worlds where their story is uninterrupted, rather then sharing that story together.

The combat is rigid, and stuck in this unholy trinity of bad design, bad design that is rooted in the fact that the core combat mechanics of the game are based on fucking everquest, monsters in MMOs have been mechanically inept and stunted because at their core, they're a basic as fuck AI that simply goes "Run towards highest threat target and smack them every 2 seconds" With a cycle of abilities that either apply debuffs or shit groundfire everywhere, but at the end of the day they're monsters that just sit in an instanced room somewhere waiting to die on repeat every single week by the same group over and over again.

Then you have the anti-community aspects of modern MMOs, raids and dungeons have to be 'difficult' but if they're difficult then the guild retard wipes the group every night and thus everyone starts hating eachother and the guild disbands, or the game is so piss easy that you can just PUG it and never actually have to talk to anyone, you just fill it up so it goes faster.

And then you have the stagnant nature of "end game" focused MMOs, raiding is boring after the first time, doing it on repeat is dull as fuck, and when the gear is only useful for doing that same content slightly faster, it loses its purpose. Instead MMORPG developers should be developing community driven end game content, to bring players together naturally, rather then craming them through these shitty designed boss rushes on repeat and hoping they'll not get bored with them in a month.

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oh no No NO NOOOOOOOO DELETE THIS RIGHT FUCKING NOW

It garnered a massive migration when it initially launched, the problem was that 1.0 was a mechanical shitshow in every way comparatively to XI and WoW and only the most devoted assburgers were willing to put up with it.

how would you know, you never played wow

>not beeing able to 1vs9 or 1vs7 brsquads
topheh

everytime

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ok sorry

>people don't like your weeb wow clone, that's all
>Yet everyone does and its a 92 on metacritic and people are flocking to it

kek

You're right, the game was bad enough that the FF skin didnt help in 1.0. Now it's mediocre enough that it does, that's all there is to it

Your attempt at logic is retarded and bad

NOOOOOO THEY'RE ALL CHINK BOTS AND PAID STREAMERS DELETE THIS

MMOs are played exclusively by discord neetrannies and manchildren.

Your buddy sounds like a bad father like another person I know, but more power to him for prioritizing what he enjoys!

user said nobody would touch FFXIV if it didn't have the FF brand name.

1.0 had the FF brand name and flopped in all areas.

brand name means nothing. it's all about the game. the reboot did something right if it has a ton of players and the latest expansion has the highest rated metacritic score on PC and PS4 of this entire year.

The answer is XIV but people dont like that answer

>How'd Lost Ark do

It's korean how well do you fucking think

>Seven year "cashgrab" that is still going strong

Sounds like we have another GW baby mad that they didn't get a HD remake of the original game.

I played through Vanilla, BC, WotLK, and dumped it mid Cata before it was too late. I've just been laughing from the sidelines since. The only people still playing are the ones who feel like they've invested too much time in it, and they're holding on hoping that the game will get better. The reality is that the top talent that Blizzard used to have is long gone, and Blizzard is just a front for Activision now.

>1.0 had the FF brand name and flopped in all areas.
And 1.0 was also a completely broken game and not the same as what is now. I'm not sure what you're failing to understand here.

>It garnered a massive migration when it initially launched
Do yourself a favor and read the fucking posts you're replying to dumbshit.

enjoy having the favor of game journos and biased weebs I guess? it's not on anyone elses radar

...

I just wish Rob Pardo would announce his fucking game already.

So you're agreeing with me that brand name means nothing if the game is shit and the reboot is success despite having the exact same brand name as the shit game from before.

FF14 embodies everything wrong with MMORPGs.

>Paid journalists and weebs

I'll concede when FFXIV actually matches WoW in viewership, but clearly that day will never come.

>not on anyones radar
>everyones talking about it

Man wowtards really are in cope mode.

>Fursuiter trying to claim a game that puts 90% of it's "content" behind paywalls isn't a cashgrab
Yiff yiff little charrsura.

>more numbers equals better
Guess I should just move to a Chinese slum there because that seems to be REAL popular. Instead of looking at viewer numbers, how about you ask how much WoW players actually like BFA compared to older expansions. I'd really like to see those numbers.

>it's not on anyone elses radar
because they have bad tastes, case and point this thread jacks off over objectively dead MMOs.

As long as you agree with me that current FFXIV is a shit game that no one would play if it weren't for the brand name!

>everyone
this is what vocal weebs think lmao

I can't tell if these are supposed to show off how cool FF14 is or make fun of it. They show some mundane content, but it's still flashy and the great number of players makes it look fun.

The only hope for MMORPGs now is for the genre to just die and be forgotten, and hope a new generation of D&D fags get bored of Pen and Paper and decide to make their own virtual worlds full of adventure again, like the first primitive MMOs like Neverwinter Nights, UO and Everquest.

Age of Conan and Aion. That was like 11 years ago and since then nothing but casual shit and Korean p2w grinders like BDO.

MMOs died with moba games uprising and that's it, move on

>A game with a recently released expansion is being talked about on game journalism sites and the rare thread on Yea Forums

did you miss the nonstop bump limit reached FFXIV threads on Yea Forums for years while other MMO threads archive early or is nothing but salty shitposting like this one

>muh twitch views

Every fucking time like clockwork.
Its literally the only argument they have left.
I'd say its more of a bad thing more people are watching a nigger play WoW than actually subbing and playing the game themselves...

ArcheAge is the MMO I feel had the most potential of any MMO this decade and it did absolutely nothing with it. It had all the tools and systems to be really good but the companies behind it fucking ruined it.

>case and point
Ah geez

>nobody is talking about it
lol

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>and the rare thread on Yea Forums

Where the fuck have you been in the last month.

Theres been constant XIV threads that hit bump limit every day.

Cant reason with this one

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I play WoW over XIV because its just more fun to play
Yes the class design is good in XIV but its so fucking clunky with that 2.5gcd and animation delay
>muh ogcd
ogcd are not making the gameplay any better, you can only use 2 ogcd spells during the 2.5gcd window because there's an animation delay on every spells
its just unresponsive and slow compared to wow

MMOs died because they were devolving into MOBAs before MOBAs became main stream.

WOW has been watered down in the name of arena balance, everything is an unfun clusterfuck, and all the class dynamics were stripped out in favor of rigid hyper balance.

Give me my fucking disc priest back with power infusion and powerful shields.

That shit happens at most once a week at completely random times and nine times out of ten it's over before you even finish porting in. It's no more fun than zerging shit down in GW2 or WoW.

Except I'm playing it right now.

And it was ncsoft that killed it

It is what you make of it user.

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yes user, big advertisements = the game is very good!

I wish, you weebs wont shut the fuck up about how much you love your bunnygirls (male)

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you just prove him right faggot, now go dilate

>neglecting his children just to play some video game
holy fuck someone report this guy for child abuse

nah, go do some world visit bosses sometime.

>Theres been constant XIV threads that hit bump limit every day.
There are constant Smash threads that hit bump limit every day too, that doesn't make it any less trash.

>projection
kid is doing fine, I visited last week. he is a giggly babby.

>hunt autists call out mark in guild chat
>half server ports in at once
>laugh at potato PC people d/cing
>someone pulls early
>everyone gets to do half a rotation at best
>spastic tokens collected
Even with effects for others lowered it's an ungodly underwhelming mess

b-But Smash is the best MMORPG in the market.

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>everyone leaves and never hears from eachother again
gg

I cleared all 4 floors together with a friend and the whole party was chatting in e4 tho

Phenomenally trash.

>Regresses to wojaks *immediately*

Case in fucking point

>everyone gets to do half a rotation at best
try doing shb hunts. they have actual mechanics and stats.

Cope.

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I love salty posts like these. They try to hide the coping but it's so obvious.

EQN had promise, but SOE got bought out to become a generic FPS knockoff studio.

>Too many rare cards in Triad deck
>Npcs over here with all Aces and 5 stars
What the fuck Sqaure. FFXIV is a joke

>tfw it will never get the attention and funding for a desperately needed overhaul and will forever be on life support despite being Funcom's best IP to date

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inb4
>muh twitch views.

He's playing FFXIV, not a 18 hours a day NEET MMO like pre abyssea FFXI.

Cope

Lol w/e. I don't care about shitters who think their game is perfect. No game is perfect. Especially not the stale game genre like MMO and ESPECIALLY not a Final Fantasy MMO.

>Brings back the RPG
Oh my fuck, this is some beautiful bait.

>an expac that is in its prime has more posts than a game that's still months away
oh no...

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NOOOOO
XIV IS WEEB SHIT
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ON NOBODIES RADAR
IT'S A SHIT GAME
EVERYONE THAT PLAYS IT IS MENTALLY ILL
AAAAAAA

Stay buttblasted

take a similar screenshot after classic release

shitty modern MMOs made with instant gratification in mind for retards, sure

It's like a mixtape of all the things that ruined MMORPGs but cramped in a single game. Thankfully for them, their target audience is weeaboo teenage girls who don't know jack shit.

he said phenomenal not perfect.

I really miss skyforge. Such great design squandered

>It's better because there are more effects going off and the boss dies faster!
You are wrong and bad. There should be a new, stronger word for people like you.

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>op will be of asmongs face
Nice?

Didn't WoW have a big new content patch?

Wheres the threads for that I wonder...

Yea Forums is the most popular board on this website which gets millions of hits a month.

wow players uses /vg/
xiv players uses Yea Forums because the /vg/ thread is full of trannies

Really how old are you guys ITT? I especially want to know from the people that think FFXIV is everything wrong with MMOs.

strawpoll.me/18331787

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Yea Forums is full of trannies.

try not still being level 70 you sprout icon.

>buttblasted
You could not be any more wrong. I'm giggling because people are going to take that and eat it all up.

XIV is a good game, but it's not an RPG. Gear doesn't matter, there's no variance in classes outside of how they play (and even then, there's no variance in how they're played between players outside of some fringe classes like MNK who's class design is directly brought over from 1.23b). I'm not going to say it's not an MMO, but I would not classify it as an RPG. It's more of an action game with some light RPG elements such as gear and levels. To put it into perspective, it's like calling Destiny an MMO although I think that even has a more complicated gearing and leveling system compared to XIV.

Unless you're actually going to tell me that having a dialogue option makes it a role-playing game.

People are playing it, unlike XIVtards that run out of shit to do within the first three days and run to Yea Forums to fill the void.

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Age of Conan was not decent. Played it on release and the game falls apart after level 20.

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at least Yea Forums trannies aren't ERPing, posting pictures of their characters and asking if this haircut is better than the oher

WoW introduced the solo design

even the /vg/ wow thread moves slower than the Yea Forums ffxiv thread

Buttblasted fren
You're writing all this nonsense while I'm having fun in xiv kek

>People are playing it
they aren't, they're watching it.

Imagine being 28-29 and still clinging onto MMOs.

Maybe in another 3 years when XIV has enough content to last me longer than a week and a half of casual play.

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Congratulations, you're retarded

>That one 30+ year old

Get a fucking life gramps

That content is free for quite some time at the time it is released. You only have yourself to blame if you miss a chapter.

Nah, I've already done everything that I want to in XIV. I've cleared the EX trials, the current raid series. I've grinded Innocence enough to get full 450 right side alongside a ring from the new raid series, I've done Titania enough that I can buy a weapon (and would, if my friends weren't bugging me to go for more). I'm here because I was curious to see if there would be any good discussion. And, as normal, there isn't.

Sorry that you just want to shitpost about how good XIV is, instead of actually discussing the topic at hand.

what was your /playtime before you quit

WOW hit the perfect "Well you -could- solo it, but its slow as fuck" formula, limited bag space, food, drinks, ect, made the game a chore to solo through, only 4 classes were really decent at solo leveling, and only 1 of them was exceptionally fast at it (hunters)

There was also a mastery of sorts with leveling solo, unlike modern WOW and its spinoffs which are utterly faceroll, you learned the mechanics, pulling, aggro ranges, CC, line of sight, ect, to solo effectively, otherwise you'd be another warrior who charges in, aggros 3 mobs and dies because they got parried 3 times in a row.

You folk aure do love arguing about how shit you think xiv is. Why not talk about an mmo you enjoy in detail?

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Theyre obviously watching their fave streamer watch it friend :)

Fixed it for you.

>Play our shitshow religiously or we're locking you out of content
If that's not a red flag to you, you're mentally disabled.

This is the /r/MMORPG circlejerk. We all hate MMOs except the ones we grew up with in our prime years.

wheres my 25-27 hommie at?

I too enjoy posting random fan art of anime characters

>Log in once during the release week to unlock that chapter forever
>This is apparently playing religiously

truth and best post

coping and seething trannies

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Ask me again in 3 years when XIV has enough content to justify me subbing.
We have so much in common, we should hang out.

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Which are yours, user? I liked Vanguard.

Bro kara was behind a fucking quest chain and some heroics stop this retarded "wow was ultra hyper hardcore from vanilla to [my favorite xpax]" mysticism. Attunement was even removed ffs

I wouldn't hang out with a loser like you tbqh. I enjoy talking about things I like, rather than what i dont like

I really liked Dragon's Dogma Online. The combat was fun, and the core content loop was pretty good. Just a shame that it was JP only, and the leveling became a huge chore solo when I was playing, which made the JP only part of it even worse.

It's a shame it's shutting down, though.

so what's your character name and race then so I can look up your playtime myself

We hate all THINGS except the ones we grew up with in our prime years. Music, games, TV, ideas, etc. You can literally see the different groups of people by simply grouping them by generations.

Final Fantasy MMO is trash to anyone except those who grew up with XI MMO. Same with WoW crowds.

Yeah bro, everybody cleared SWP bro, just like everybody cleared Naxx bro, genre was casual, bro.

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speak for yourself, I grew up with PSO on Dreamcast and FFXI on PS2 and I enjoy FFXIV today.

Thats my problem.

Every MMO I enjoyed is not enjoyable

>WOW
End game is shit because its beatable on the first day of a new patch and I don't give a fuck about cosmetics and transmogs
>EVE
Citadels was one of the worst ideas CCP ever introduced, they're unfun to destroy, they're unfun to fight around, and they ruined the economy by making it so any asshole can do reactions
>OSRS
More like Hardcore Ironman Slayer Scape, they keep buffing drop tables for iron men so they don't have to skill, while non ironmen skillers are fucked because not only are we competing against fucking bots which fagex still can't stop reguardless of their shotgun bans, but now we have to compete with more fucking noted slayer drops

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That's nice. Maybe someone will have a discussion with you about that game

all these people talking trash about ffxiv sound like grey df parsers. most likely true too because they don't want to show their lodestone.

>grew up with console mmos
>enjoys gutted themepark mmos today
I am shocked

>Look at how few people are talking about it!
>Actually it's been hitting the bump limit every day
>N-no I change my argument

Couldn't get past level 24 on FFXIV

Game is a chore to play.

Because the MMO genre is a dumpster fire right now and FFXIV is emblematic of that

That's exactly what I said you dumb fuck. You're a perfect example of NPC robot that cannot break their programming.

I truly believe everyone who consistently seethes about the game here, are assblasted the game wasnt for them and had ARR filter their underaged ass
That or they're Brazilians who can't afford the sub

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>warlocks are efficient as fuck, 0 downtime in affli
>hunters can afk
>frostbolt frostbolt frostbolt occasional aoe
>cats and rogues dish out enough damage to almost get out of a regular mov unscathed
>shamans can farm non stop with flametongue + shield
Half of the classes can roflstomp mobs solo while leveling, and don't get me started on end game farming. This might have been true in 1.0 but it is not the case in recorded vanilla history.
You can gey away with 1 stack of food and even skip drinks depending on your class, which is about 5 bear asses vendored.

I played XI since launch and I don't enjoy FFXIV.

It literally launched with less content than BFA.

The main issue with discussing DDO is that it's niche as fuck. A handful of people from /ddg/ played it, hated it (since it WAS pretty trash on launch), and then the general died until the ports of DD started coming out. DDO was basically a forbidden topic from that point. The rest of the community is from reddit.

Hurr durr if you never outran Bolt you never ran running is so hardcore

prove it

>"trannies" seething over game filled with actual trannies

lol

>BFA launches with more quantity than quality
yikes

>MMO fags
>I pay $15 a month to speedrun dungeons

>Speedrun fags
>I get paid to speedrun dungeons on twitch

>implying the few dungeons in shadowbringers were any good
I don't know why literally everyone says that when they get less shit that it absolutely has to be of higher quality. Shadowbringers and BFA launched with horrendous content, but BFA still had more.

People are bitching and complaining that "MUH SHADOWBRINGERS 60$" but the DLC is 40$ and includes heavensword and stormblood...

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>all the dumbasses in this thread shilling for their god awful click button and win """"games""""
>when the true king of MMOs is only getting better and better

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I couldn't get into sandbox MMOs while growing up because they all had super cliquey NEET communities and had less players than FFXI in its prime.

>We hate all THINGS except the ones we grew up with in our prime years.
I grew up with FFXI and initially loved it, but ended up hating it later for the same reasons why I couldn't get into sandbox MMOs. cliquey linkshells and declining population meant game became more of a chore to play.

imagine speedrunning for thousands of hours and permanently damaging your joints only to get a total donation count of $1000

>Purchase WoW or XIV
>Download TERA or TSW
>Have access to entirety of the game's content at any time
>Download GW2
>Fucked out of entire chunks of the game's story because I didn't play it 2 years ago when that part of the story was released

it got worse when the chest got patched tho

If this is an MMO then so is fallout 76

>Pay $40 on top of a monthly fee for dead content

Adaelia Blackwood.

Literally every MMO has super cliquey NEET communities. And FFXI was never that popular. All this says is that you can't get into MMOs that don't cater to solo progression or literally match you with other players for you.

Somehow this game's still up 15 years after release and actually have big playerbase when other MMOs were dying left and right. The war aspect really distinguished it from other MMOs IMO, as it is the core concept of the game being done 3 times a day and having 3 factions means more checks to dominance of 1 faction. Granted it's pay to win but even playing support while not paying any cent is still big fun. They're just so versatile.

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Destiny is not a MMO, there's not a single persistent world.

>'dead content'
> 100k+ ppl playing at a time
>97% positive reviews on steam
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
seething

dungeons and dragons online was nothing but "dungeons" and a city and i'd consider it to be the best mmo

>>same shit for black desert
Man I wish it was actually weebs for Black Desert. I absolutely love the game, but holy shit, I've never seen a more cancerous world chat and I was there for barrens 2004-2006

>TSW
Don't remind me user.

So the Division 2 and Fallout 76 are MMOs gotcha

>Claiming HW and SB aren't dead content
Stormblood was dead even when it was relevant you fucking tool.

i wouldn't know,never played those two

I have more heartbreak for TSW than I do for GW1.

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I've played them all and they're just as "massively multiplayer" as Destiny 2 is.

>GW1
I said stop user, you're only making it worse.

PSOBB didn't have super cliquey NEET communities, the endgame community there was fucking awesome (aside from the hackers but the GMs banned those losers fast). I loved that there was no auction house and everything was tradeable between players. It forged connections and a sense of character reputation like "that guy who had a bunch of S rank weapons" or "that guy who was a photon drop trade scammer". It was the opposite of FFXI where people used auction houses, cliques formed because everyone was against each other to compete for loot drops which is the opposite of PSO's loot design that lets you trade loot for loot.

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What I've found is that people at least in the west, just don't know or care about the social aspects of MMO's. PSO2 focuses a lot on social stuff and doing fun shit with your friends, even on the lobby, but western players simply ignored those aspects of the game.

Another example is BDO. BDO is quirky sandbox game with a million and a half activities to do, but people keep chasing this notion of "grind to endgame" where endgame doesn't really exist in BDO, at least not in the traditional sense.

People just don't know how to play MMO's anymore, and I partially blame WoW and its derivatives for it. The multiple QoL updates that focused on getting players into the action and only the action contributed to players losing interest in side activities and things that don't directly "progress" your character.

Basically, pic related

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Not him but
>PSOBB didn't have super cliquey NEET communities
yes it did

Maybe on private servers now, but not on official servers. If you did play on official servers, what level were you and what character?

>I'm a retard that can't follow backlinks
Yeah, that was obvious, bro.

>remember Star Wars Galaxies
>look into SWGEmu
>no way to tell how many people are playing
Anyone play it and know if it's alive or dead?

>People just don't know how to play MMO's anymore
I fear it's worse than that.
People don't want to play like that anymore.
The age of discovery is already over for vidya/internet/online games

being in a neet clique in pso1 makes no sense since you limit your trade pool significantly due to section IDs and people refusing to trade if they know you as "that no life asshole"

Buying pets is a meme only for the hardcore grinders that don't know how else to play the game.

Yes, the cash shop has a lot of issues in that game and honestly Kakao makes the likes of Nexon and Aeria look competent like Blizzard in WoW's prime. But you can live just fine without dropping a mortage like some people make it sound.

The only thing i personally feel like dropping cash on is outfits because the armor selection is horrible and once you get into boss gear is basically a requirement if you don't want your eyes to bleed. But that's just me being a fashion whore.

>being in a neet clique
>people refusing to trade with you
that's not how it works