Because of Bayonetta and Dark Souls, practically every action games has these and they're fucking boring because every attack the game throws at you is purely a matter of pressing the dodge button at the right time because your dodgeroll will i-frame through everything. Elements like spacing and positioning are non-existent, and now everyone (including Platinum) is using dodges as a crutch. Just look how spammable it is in Automata.
When will we have action games again where we avoid attacks simply by moving out of the way and positioning yourself intelligently instead of pressing the crutch dodgeroll button, or something like God Hand where you had multiple dodge techniques with their own strengths and weaknesses?
Play Sekiro, you won't really feel like it's a crutch anymore as dodging is nowhere near as useful in that game as it is in others.
Aiden James
>Elements like spacing and positioning are non-existent Play MHW, I think you'll like it
Jack Robinson
>Because of Bayonetta Lol, like anyone outside this website gives a fuck about Bayonetta
Ayden Foster
Parrying and dodging in Sekiro are effectively the same thing, since you just press a button at the right time to avoid getting damage. You don't really dodge or jump in combat (outside group combat) to reposition yourself, but rather because the boss is throwing out an attack that's arbitrarily only avoidable using this technique.
For example, in God Hand you can backflip to avoid grabs, but it's also there to disengage from enemies safely. Then the startup animation for your dash also has i-frames and allows you to close the distance more safely. You can sidestep to avoid leg sweeps, but also to reposition yourself to an enemy's flanks so you can line them up with another enemy and proceed to launch one into the other. Basically there's a reason to use each action other than the enemies throwing out an attack that can only be countered with this specific move.
Also consider how in Ys Oath/Origin you avoid a lot of attacks by simply jumping, and there's a lot involved to dodging through jumping, since you can extend air time with a double jump or tornado strike in case the floor is lava for a long time, while you also have to consider how to land safely.
In other games with more projectiles on screen and with dodgeroll mechanics like Furi or Ys it works out better there because you have to be mindful of not dodging right into a bullet. This isn't really applicable in a hack 'n slash when most enemies attack you with melee, whose hitboxes only appears briefly whereas with a lot of projectiles you're constantly surrounded by things you can collide into if you spam dodge carelessly.
Easton Ross
>purely a matter of pressing the dodge button at the right time
All games are purely a matter of pressing a button or stick at the right time
In older games where you simply moved out of the way of attacks, I also had to consider WHERE to move in order to avoid them. In Mario you usually jump out of the way when attacked, but you also had to consider WHERE you're going to land. With dodge buttons, this element is completely gone since it usually doesn't matter what direction you dodge into, as the i-frames are that lenient.
>time it poorly >get hit or lose counterattack opportunity It can get stale in Souls games but it's nowhere remotely bad and Sekiro already addressed the dodgeroll everything problem.
Parker Jenkins
It doesn't matter for the actual dodge which direction you go but it does matter for setting up your next attack as attack windows are usually quite short so you want to be in the right spot right after dodging.
Adrian Parker
>Also I never played God Hand is it good? Fuck yes. It's got a crazy presentation and several mechanics that have never really been replicated in future brawler games. youtube.com/watch?v=jQ2r2ZFTaWk
I also want to add that I don't consider the dodge button in Bayonetta to be such a problem, because at least Bayonetta was balanced around with dodge offset where dodging had to be utilized effectively so you could keep your combos while dodging, adding to a gameplay style of relentless rushdown, though future Platinum games just used it as a crutch and let you spam it to your heart's content.
It can also be somewhat excused in Dark Souls because you can't just spam dodge because of stamina, and you had to know when to back off so you could recover it.
And that 'right spot' is usually right in the boss' face, so you only need to keep dodging toward the boss so you can continue attacking right after because the dodges or parries are often chainable or just that lenient. Just look at every boss in Ys VIII and see how they all play out the same way. youtube.com/watch?v=RTMlZYKfew8
Cameron Collins
there are roll upgrades, even without them hitting and immediately rolling out is EZ mode, as hits usually have long animations and by the time it's done the monster will usually strike where you were
Justin Taylor
Yeah, once you completely dismiss stamina management, multiple enemies, environmental hazards, setting up your next attack all, I guess you could have a point that positioning doesn't matter.
Jaxson Butler
>EVEN THE PLATINUM GAMES ADAPTED IT
Lmao their games always been mash dodge to win you big fucking retard
Zachary Gutierrez
Then consider that not every game is Dark Souls with its stamina management and environmental hazards and attacks with heavy wind-up, and that many action game boss fights are often fought 1v1 on a flat arena.
