What would be the hardest video game genre to program for?

RTS
That is why its dead

I figure anything with online multiplayer.
Netcode is its own can of worms

Some sort of spaceship simulator where in-game physics change depending on how close you are to a star or a planet

Those combined are a nightmare
>complex systems
>several models all animated independently
>multiple input and output states
>separate AI for units
>fucking pathfinding for multiple units
>AI for opponents
>and at the end the fucking netcode
>all this needs to be done efficiently since its realtime

MMO's are by far the most difficult and expensive.

[code]
vec3 gravity;
array planets[];
object spaceship;
const float G = 0.0000000000667;
foreach planet in planets:
gravity += (G * (spaceship.m * planet.m)/distance(spaceship.position, planet.position));[/code]

Attached: gravity.gif (609x278, 4K)

fucking formatting
[code]
vec3 gravity;
array planets[];
object spaceship;
const float G = 0.0000000000667;
foreach planet in planets:
gravity += (G * (spaceship.m * planet.m)/distance(spaceship.position, planet.position));
[/code]

Whatever Dorf Fort is

I should just kill myself

Simulation games

Combined arms simulator with full fidelity
Nobody made it so far

Yea Forums doesn't have code tags you mong

Make the combat as deep and precise as a fighting game, and that might just be it.

>only stopping at 4 dimensions
We can do better than that.

replace distance with a direction vector as the current code assumes gravity to be magnitudinal
fuck me, I forgot what board I was on

a lot of that is just networking though. unless you mean that one player cant fuck something up for everyone else. then thats just going to happen and will need to be patched. if you're games that big you cant avoid it.

Not at all. Especially turn-based RPGs. You just code specific attack patterns into the NPC based on the strategies you want them to you use, and add a few “if” states.

this but with also with realistic space/time mechanics dealing with light speed travel. and also hella good graphics, not shitty like space engine

wait, is "gravity" a scalar or a vector?

Anything with management or a political system.
Shit like Dwarf Fort.
Shit like 4X.
Shit like Space Sim like X series.
Even RPG if you make it like M&B with factions and dynamics.

Let's put it simple:
Anything that requires you to do AI.
AI is a bitch.

text adventure

why not both? a standardised vector for direction + scalar for strength

vector.
You sum the forces of all planets together and then normalise the vector for the effect. Depending on engine or api you can usually just sum vectors with "+". Definitely works with opengl or unity, probably works in unreal too. To get the final translation applied to the spaceship just do: translate(spaceship, gravity.Normalized);

2d platformers are way fucking easier then RPGs. You're leaving out stat systems, inventories, dialogue, open world elements, encounter scenes etc.

It wouldn't be genre specific. It would be what precisely you do and what you build upon.

A puzzle game could be the most complex if you have to write your own physics engine from scratch and implement raycasting using Vulkan.

Networking is also very difficult, not because it isn't well-documented but because implementing netcode that runs dozens of people playing together at the same time on various different platforms that is resilient to crashes is incredibly obtuse. The logic for basic networking is easy. Getting it working fast and without errors is difficult

That's incredibly basic logic, just time-consuming to implement.

>2d platformers are way fucking easier then RPGs.
Not in the slightest. 2D platformers require physics, hitboxes, and a bunch of other stuff that’s significantly complex and prone to bugs. RPGs are simple math equations for 90% of everything. You can literally plan and test everything about a turn based RPG on pen and paper, whereas a 2D platformer you can even begin to do level design and testing till you’re solid the movement FEELS good.

>You're leaving out stat systems,
Literal math equations.

>inventories,
Not hard to do, like at all. Literally a state machine.

>dialogue
This isn’t coding, this is writing. Implementing it is easy as fuck.

>open world elements,
What Open world elements? Also, not all RPGs are open world, what the fuck are you on about?

>encounter scenes etc.
Literally flags. Fucking VNs do this. Do X to trigger Y encounter. Not hard. Random encounters? Notoriously easy. Enemies roam the land? Touch hitbox to trigger battle scenario.

I can handle art and coding on my own it really just is music. Anyone willing to spoonfeed resources for learning how to actually compose good shit? Like for example, I want to mess around with YM2151 and YM2612 soundfonts to make a shmup soundtrack since they sound nice but I have no idea how to create music using virtual soundboards period

mmorpg
rts
fighting games

Multiplayer simulation sandbox with heavy physics emphasis. Anything else is being a casual faggot.

What makes fighting games difficult? I’m not saying they aren’t, I’m just curious about what’s particularly tough?

Nbody simulation only sort of works like that. If you do it that way, you either run into fucked physics in odd areas in the case of on rails planets or planets falling out of orbit in the case of the planets doing their own thing.

>fighting games
If you are referring to the AI, then it's among the easiest to code because the activity is reduced to a very narrow level.
The rest is platformer-tier shit.

Attached: 1547333864865.gif (307x173, 1.76M)

Not difficult just tedious. Every frame of animation for every move for every character has to mesh and be balanced and fun or you're wasting your time. Input buffering is ez so it's not that in any case.

so when are we getting that templeOS anime, I want too see a schizo anime girl try and implement malloc

Fruity loops and patience.

Lain is pretty close if you turn off subs and squint.

the copious use of "nigger" as a general derogatory term is an essential part of the experience though.

>activity is reduced to a very narrow level.
Are you stupid?
>The rest is platformer-tier shit.
Yes, you are stupid. Remember how the PM dolts tried to make their own Smash clone thinking it was easy, used fucking Unity, and made a fucking turd that felt like shit and was latent as fuck.

Fighting games are difficult because each character has unique movement and physics variables and all of these not only have to be playtested so they all feel good, different and unique, but also, you have to constantly test for bugs in the 1000s of possible different interactions between characters, stages, etc... additionally, the game has to run at 60fps and has to be responsive a fuck so players can react accordingly and everything feels smooth. Games that deal with simulating physics, especially physics with multiple variables like gravity, weight, air speed, run speed, velocity, momentum, etc... are all significantly more difficult to code than an RPG where you plug in a simple damage calculation equation like pic related.

And play a cathartic animation to impress the player. Fighting games not only have to ensure that the characters FEEL good to move and use without any graphics, but they also have limited frames of animation to make shit look cool, AND properly communicate the action to the player. They’re incredibly art and code heavy games, and have to be super efficient with everything as actions are happening in multiple fractions of a second. And the sound design had to be on point too.

Meanwhile an RPG can get away with a neat little flashy animation, a catchy tune, some canned SFX, and a simple math equation for damage calculation, and that’s it.

Attached: 1889479B-3DCA-4405-943F-3BBE70097CCB.png (570x63, 4K)

Probably a fighting game, that's some intense frame data.
Kinda disappointing to me since I know more than enough programming to make almost any other type of game but beat em ups and FIGHTAN titles are my shit

a solid answer is : whatever genre combined with open world MMO because you need to do anything other vidya requires + solid networking code + solid progressive loading in everything.

Multiplayer games in general are hard because of synchronization between client and server and animations, MMO just need to take it to the next level by allowing 200 people in the same spot, which is gonna expose any inefficiency in the code.

while RTS AI can be hard, there are many RTSs getting away with a mediocre one. it doesn't sound like there is a specific genre that requires more coding, it all depends on the features you want to add and what engine is your starting point.

have you read OP question?

he is talking about coding.
there is nothing special to code in fighting games. it's just the designers tweaking the hitboxes and animation timings for months.

>Fighting games
>Deep
Literally just memorising inputs

>wanting to be an 1 man army

pay someone else.time spent learning how to make the most basic shitty music could be spent doing better/more coding, level design, features/art.

Out of all the things music is truly the one that is the easiest to outsource and splice on the game afterward.

>learn to program
>lose interest in making videogames
I CANNOT MAKE THIS UP

Attached: 1555202596987.gif (300x300, 192K)

It’s not that, are you fucking stupid?

Each character is a unique state machine with unique physics variables. Additionally, you need equations for damage calculations and the different types of knockdowns you can produce at the end of a combo. You also gotta implement tools that prevent infinites.

If you don’t understand what I mean by state machine let me give you an example.

>touch nothing
Character is in Idle state
>hold down
Character is in crouching state
>press up
Character is in jumping state
>press A during Idle state
Character does a Jab (enters a new state)
>press A again
Character does a follow up to the jab, enters a new state
>press in in crouching state
Character does a different attack

And that’s not even factoring shit like cancels, or even defensive states like blocks, or hitstun, or the various types of knockdown, or wall-bounce, and all the unique options you have there too.

Additionally, you also gotta factor in a characters unique:
>weight
>defense modifiers
>air speed
>gravity
>momentum
etc... etc... into LITERALLY everything you do.

A jumping Jab from a standing state, a jumping jab from a running state, and one from a running state with momentum behind it all hit differently. It’s got a ridiculous number of variables that require precise and efficient programming, and have to be playtested again and again.

>variables like gravity, weight, air speed, run speed, velocity, momentum, etc...
This is how one knows one is speaking to a mental retard who uses big obfuscatory words to paint something as more grandiose than it is.
Exanima is the only game which can say it uses laws of physics as a simulation and not mindless fucking movement typesetting, insert, and then frame/animation polishing.

>Fighting games are difficult because each character has unique movement and physics variables
Creating a character map isn't difficult, it's time-consuming.
> and all of these not only have to be playtested so they all feel good, different and unique, but also, you have to constantly test for bugs in the 1000s of possible different interactions between characters, stages, etc...
So in other words something every game genre does. Are you mentally retarded?

Everything you shitblasted is either a claim that applies to every other game in existence, is a buzzword when applied to fighting games and only sees visible implementation in shit like Exanima because you are banking on the fact that nobody knows actual games as examples for your bullshit, or is a matter of simple formulas and pre-existing ones at that with no creative coding inherent in it. Learn to use a deodorant.

mmofps

Are you fucking stupid? Every fighting game from Tekken, to Guilty Gear, to fucking SMASH BROS has momentum and unique formulas for each character’s movement variables.

wired.com/story/how-to-calculate-the-physics-in-super-smash-bros-ultimate/amp

ssbwiki.com/knockback
ssbwiki.com/Gravity
ssbwiki.com/Weight

dustloop.com/wiki/index.php/GGXRD/Attack_Attributes

dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Damage

dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Movement

Now fuck off you dumb nigger.

>Are you fucking stupid? Every fighting game from Tekken, to Guilty Gear, to fucking SMASH BROS has momentum and unique formulas for each character’s movement variables.
I see you've backpedaled from your retarded claims about fucking simulating physics to applying fixed values to characters.
Do you even understand the shit you are spewing out of your dumbshit mouth?
Again, obfuscation and hyperbolic inflation. I expect no less from a fighting game brainlet.
Go look up how Exanima simulates physics, that's actual simulation and actual serious programming you stupid microbrained retard. Learn to use a deodorant.

I imagine a physics based game, like exanima isn't easy to make, programing the AI to not mess up in a physics based game and understand how to exist in a world while it's affected by physics (not glued to the ground or in a large empty sky/ocean)

Attached: 112.gif (300x232, 3.8M)

>Definitely works with opengl or unity
Ah ok, I'm trying to do basic things in Unity but C# is horribly limited when you're used to C++. What software do you recommend to learn animation?

Not that guy, but if you knew anything about programming you could realize difference between tricky coding and menial code chiseling for monkeys.

Know what's best about Exanima's system?
You can apply fatigue.
Fatigue which affects character movement in realistic and erratic ways and is always unique to that character's movement style and behavior. That's the beauty of having a fluid base formula for interaction. Coding it would be a big bitch though, needs to invent new formulas and new code.

l’m not talking about realistic simulation you stupid fucking moron. When did I even imply that you mouth breathing imbecile? I’m debunking your dumbass claim that “hurr durr, fighting games are easy as all you’re doing is tweaking hitboxes!”

All the while ignoring ALL THE OTHER SHIT THAT MAKES THEM WORK. Like damage calculation formulas, defense variables and their respective formulas, and each character’s unique and individual movements physics AND state machines so down to their very movement they feel fucking unique.

It’s like making a platformer, with combos, with 30+ different Marios, where each one moves significantly different from the rest, and can enter multiple different states each with unique different paths to them, and cancels, and then bugtesting all that shit so your shit fucking works, and seeking out the 10000s of different situations and variables that can spring a bug, and that’s not even factoring in that everything has to be super responsive or even mentioning netcode.

You’re a fucking imbecile if you legit think, “hurr it’s just programming states and tweaking hitboxes.” Yeah you fucking moron, I’m sure the turd of a game you tried to make was that fucking simple.

>learn how to make videogames
>love for playing them dies
>Whenever I try to put on a new game all I can see are mechanics
I SHOULD HAVE JUST BECOME A WEB DEV

You’re telling me that making sure that your game can read and react to your inputs in less than 3 frames is easy to do?

Go on then. Show me a fighting game prototype you made that’s as responsive and fluid as Smash Melee. I’ll wait. You can use whatever engine you like. Or you can build one like Mike Z. Whichever you prefer.

so dragons dogam online then

Game that runs flawless on many different android phones.

See you at evo, champ. Show 'em how well you memorized the inputs

>l’m not talking about realistic simulation you stupid fucking moron.
Of course you aren't. You are not talking simulation at all. You are talking fixed movement and fixed charts whose only nuance is polishing the frame and animation interaction.
You are talking about a fucking genre which has not seen development of unique new code or unique new programming formulas for years, which is breaking no new ground and can't break any new ground. It's an already perfected genre whose only programming requirement is putting the time and taking a peek at how other games do it. You can emulate any fighting game if you put the time into it because there's nothing fucking special about it anymore, while you can't do shit to emulate Exanima because it's mentally complex to create new physics and movement definitions to be understood by the machine one works with.
Your retarded example of unity fags fails because they didn't put shitall in terms of time into their work, it's that simple.

>damage calculation formulas, defense variables and their respective formulas, and each character’s unique and individual movements physics AND state machines so down to their very movement they feel fucking unique.
IS ALL SIMPLISTIC INSERT SHIT TO AN AVERAGE PROGRAMMER WHICH REQUIRES NO DEVELOPMENT OF NEW SYSTEMS OF THOUGHT OR NEW PROGRAMMING CRITERIA YOU IGNORANT FIGHTING BRAINLET
IT'S FUCKING HAMSTER-TASK. IT'S NEITHER DIFFICULT NOR INTELLIGENT BUT TEDIOUS YOU STUPID DEODORANT-DODGER.
You don't know shit about programming.

Dynamic environment simulation with emergent Ai using neural networks.

I’m a simple JavaScript lackey and that shit is difficult.

Programming games.

I use blender for all my animations but not certain if I recommend it. I just haven't tried any others because they're not free. It's a very powerful software but everything is a little unorthodox by default which makes the learning curve a bit shit. For example, left and right click do the opposite of what you intuitively expect as well as shift and ctrl. I'll probably stick with it though because the community is hugely helpful. Check out blender guru, grant abitt, darrin lile and sebastian lague.

I always wonder how much of a headache it is to make a game like Wario Ware DIY, Petit Computer, Dreams and etc

>It’s like making a platformer, with combos, with 30+ different Marios, where each one moves significantly different from the rest, and can enter multiple different states each with unique different paths to them, and cancels, and then bugtesting all that shit so your shit fucking works, and seeking out the 10000s of different situations and variables that can spring a bug, and that’s not even factoring in that everything has to be super responsive or even mentioning netcode.
AKA shit a bunch of Turks were capable of doing to a higher degree when making Mount&Blade.
You are shit at making fighting games seem difficult and intelligent from a design perspective. Your marketing drivel sucks.

This too actually. Programmers do not know fucking anything about teaching. But they watch some videos and read a few articles and think they have mastered it. Then you watch them fail...

The one thing I hate about this field is the absolute narcissistic hubris most programmers have. You have a niche set of skills, great, that does not mean you understand politics, art, and medicine like their respective professionals you twat.

I fucking hate programmers and am disgusted at their new found political agency.

>You are talking fixed movement and fixed charts whose only nuance is polishing the frame and animation interaction.

It’s not fixed movement and fixed charts you moron. It’s variable. Each character has unique movement variables for each of the unique physics in the game. Each one with its own unique formula, and all of them coning together to calculate stuff like the angle of your attack, the angle of the knockback, distance, etc...

>You are talking about a fucking genre which has not seen development of unique new code or unique new programming formulas for years,

What the fuck are you talking about? There’s plenty of room for unique ideas, formulas and concepts within the genre, Smash is literal proof of that. Whereby programming more complex and variable physics into the game, you made a game that’s a lot more nuanced and fun due to all the limitless options you have while playing.

>You can emulate any fighting game if you put the time into it because there's nothing fucking special about it anymore, while you can't do shit to emulate

Feel free to prove me wrong a program a game as nuanced as Melee with frame perfect inputs and fluidity. Go on. You’re severely undermining just how fucking tough that task really is.

>Exanima because it's mentally complex to create new physics and movement definitions to be understood by the machine one works with.
No one is talking or comparing anything to your faggy game, idk why you keep bringing it up.

But fighting games focus on combat. Any programming that deals with enhancing or improving combat through the use of physics, is one that would benefit fighting games. We’re talking about genres here, so idk why this game keeps getting brought up, when it could be argued NO GENRE has tried to simulate physics to that degree, because it’s a unique project by one guy, but to compare your stupid game to a whole genre to prove that the genre “is easy to program” is retarded on a whole new level.

Have sex.

I’m married.

Does mount and blade run at 60fps and have frame perfect input detection? No? Then fuck off retard. That’s the tricky part in fighting games. One that every amateur programmer on Yea Forums fails fucking hard at cause they thoroughly underestimate just how hard that actually is to accomplish while they fanwank over “but muh physics!!”

t. I’ve worked with morons from here on projects such as those. The fact that all of you tards choose to start designing a fighting game one fucking UNITY of all things, proves just how out of touch with things you really are.

Even more pathetic. Married and still can’t get laid.

Have sex

>It’s not fixed movement and fixed charts you moron. It’s variable.
The only thing variable is the variability of fixed charts which you then try to semantically pass as an "overall variable" system.
Exanima is variable, nothing is fixed in it.
Fighting Games aren't.
You are literally using the "it's surprise mechanics" EA marketing speech to glorify your unintelligent beloved genre as more than it is from a designer perspective.

>Each character has unique
Characteristics which aren't a programming difficulty but a matter of planning it out on paper properly. There's no new code or programming being invented to define any of it.

>and all of them coning together to calculate stuff like the angle of your attack, the angle of the knockback, distance, etc...
They calculate FIXED angles of attack, FIXED angles of knockback unique to characters because it's all FIXED-per-character, distance is platformer-tier shit to calculate.
Yet again, you are talking out of your ass.

>What the fuck are you talking about?
Programming you retarded fuck. Smash isn't inventing new movement programming and machine-interpretation of applied physics because guess what? IT'S FUCKING FIXED-PER-CHARACTER.

>Feel free to prove me wrong a program a game as nuanced as Melee with frame perfect inputs and fluidity. Go on. You’re severely undermining just how fucking tough that task really is.
I already have all the fucking rulebooks to it, the only "tough" requirement is time. Putting the same amount of times as the devs do.
You are making the brick argument. Piling up bricks to create a house is tough work but it's already a perfected craft, you aren't forced to invent new ways and ideas to lay bricks every fucking time you lay them. From a programming perspective Fighting Games are a done deal and Exanima is the new shit breaking new ground.

>No one is talking or comparing anything to your faggy game, idk why you keep bringing it up.
Because you can't compare it.

>he thinks framerating and input calculation is futuristic technology and programming that only fighting games can do
You've just literally admitted that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, you do understand this don't you?
There's mods that increase the fps in M&B, it's that easy that the community can do it you fucking turdbrain.

Attached: Noblesse.jpg (315x415, 54K)

>Each character is a unique state machine

...that is the very first topic you learn about in every coding class including the ones for non programming disciplines.this mean before even reading your first line of C.

>Additionally, you need equations for damage calculations and the different types of knockdowns you can produce at the end of a combo

E Q U A T I O N S. woah.

> You also gotta implement tools that prevent infinites

woah.

just put the input checks inside the draw loop

Action combat mmorpg.

So, are you going to admit it’s not “just tweaking hitboxes” or are you gonna continue to move goalposts while failing to show me your Melee clone prototype you whipped up in a couple hours cause of how easy it is?

This is getting fucking stupid. I never even began with saying that fighting games are pushing the envelope on new physics or anything like that. Just that they’re difficult due to have many variables you gotta implement, test, tweak, retest, etc... to ensure each character feels GOOD to control, and then doing extensive hours of playtesting for balance and bugs. You can’t test the feeling of controlling a character on paper you fucking spastic. You can write whatever the fuck you like on paper, but if it feels like shit, it feels like shit, and has to be redone. You’re not gonna nail these formulas on your first try either unless you’re experienced in coding for the genre.

>They calculate FIXED angles of attack, FIXED angles of knockback unique to characters because it's all FIXED-per-character, distance is platformer-tier shit to calculate.
No they fucking don’t, you’re so fucking stupid. And the fact that Smash furthers this concept by implementing sweet spots and sour spots on many attacks just tells me how little you know about the genre. It’s never fixed, getting your attacks to be consistent is part of mastering the genre.

And does the game respond to your inputs in less than 3 frames? No? Then try again.

>I never even began with saying that fighting games are pushing the envelope on new physics or anything like that. Just that they’re difficult due to have many variables you gotta implement, test, tweak, retest, etc... to ensure each character feels GOOD to control, and then doing extensive hours of playtesting for balance and bugs. You can’t test the feeling of controlling a character on paper you fucking spastic. You can write whatever the fuck you like on paper, but if it feels like shit, it feels like shit, and has to be redone. You’re not gonna nail these formulas on your first try either unless you’re experienced in coding for the genre.

that's not coding.

>tfw no n-dimensional games

Anything with competent AI. Like imagine Total War games with AI as smart and innovative as average player. That's just beyond basic "if" "than" stuff.

Again, if it’s so easy, then why does every indie dev fail so hard at making fighting games that feel as fluid and good as professionally made ones?

Show me a platform fighter as tight as Melee. Or show me an arcade fighter as good as Guilty Gear made by an indie dev.

Many have tried, all of them fail and/or give up.

Meanwhile platformers, RPGs, and other ACTUALLY easy shit get made all the time. Hell, there’s even more competent indie RTS titles than Fighting.

stop getting angry guys

its making me uncomfortable.

There's also an input mod, especially for the attempt at applying gamepads which failed because the game mechanics are too complex for the limited input of console gamepads for proper response.

The only thing funny here is how you keep losing more and more ground the more you fart out of your mouth, because everything you believe to be complex is actually easy for programmers but you don't know that because you don't know shit.
It's like watching a retarded child who believes basic calculus is extraterrestrial tier shit because it never saw the amount of people in the world who actually dabble in it.

>Just that they’re difficult due to have many variables you gotta implement, test, tweak, retest, etc...
That's not difficult, that's time-consuming.
Difficulty is in not knowing what the fuck you are doing because you are dealing with a complex system that requires the creation of your own and new tools to implement it.
That's the entire point you dumb deodorant-dodger. Fighting games require no development of new tools and no innovation, merely proper planning with foreknowledge of what you are going to create and polishing the base code so efficiency is maximized.
Efficiency is only possible in fighting games because there's no unknown variables anymore to deal with or to implement you stupid fuck.

We end with the fact that you were indulging with hyperbolic inflation all along to glorify your beloved genre as more than it is. It's pathetic and sad, because now everyone sees you for how stupid you are and you now dealt the fighting game community a negative PR with your low IQ representation.

This is low level stuff, what you said before was not.
Smash has low input delays for the same reason multiplats have them high, focus on one platform and first party support.
Arcsys had an entire panel dedicated to telling how hard they had to fuck Unreal to get what they wanted.
When you are on one system, and its producer is banking it all on your success, you can get quite intricate info about process priorities and how to set them all the way to railroad movement button presses before all else.
This is why for long time arcade versions of fighters were superior in all ways.

>tfw moron who doesn't know shit about being a game dev
>still curious about it

So, a limiting factor to enemy variety in a game is due to each mob needing to be stored as a state machine complete with its own AI or attack pattern? Would it be possible to just use one set of rules for non-player characters and only give such characters a far more limited moveset, and if so, would that be responsible for moments in games where the player is surrounded by enemies but only one or two of them bother attacking him?

Attached: 1540002327030.jpg (592x385, 38K)

Once again. Show me the proof. Show me indie games as good as professionally made fighting games if it’s so easy to code.

No saying they’re the hardest genre to program, but to say that they’re easy is mouthbreathingly retarded.

Ultimately, it is all "if" and "then" stuff, though, no matter how complex it is.

i have not said it's easy you monkey.
i said it does not involve hard coding. state machines are already built in in animation systems of many engines.

it just takes lot of design, testing, trail and error. none of which is coding.

it's smash players.they are the idiot ones.

>Show me indie games as good as professionally made fighting games
Indies don't have the money to buy Engines that professionally made fighting games borrow you fucktard, and how well an engine is coded decides how low you can go with input lag or how high you can go with framerating, and engine development takes more time than the game itself and is separate from genres because it applies to any genre as an engine. Yet again it has nothing to do with genre or programming difficulty but money. You keep talking shit you don't know shit about.

Skullgirls.

Attached: zerker.jpg (366x468, 60K)

you can easily have all your enemies with the same AI components and just slightly tweaked variables.

i have no idea what is "the limiting factor to enemy variety" but enemies are just all around content. they have models, texture, animation, attack patterns, attack animations, power level to be tested and tweaked, they intteract with the enviroment and you need to make sure nothing horrible happens with their hitobxes and AI in each given enviroment.
it's just a lot of different stuff and it's not the fault of a single component if it takes money and time for each new enemy designed.

You clearly don't understand between coding and designing. A programmer doesn't need to figure out things like "balance" if someone who put a lot of thought into it can tell him the exact way it is supposed to be. All those other things are also mostly a consequence of good or bad design, not so much the actual code behind it.

You mean like Unreal Engine 4, which is used for pretty much all the successful fighting games in the market, you literal fucking monkey?

If this is you, then yes you did:
If it’s not you, then fuck off, and stop butting into conversations when you don’t know the root of the discourse.

Literally the only one, and MikeZ built his own engine from scratch for a LITERAL DECADE and he would agree with me in calling you an utter moron for thinking they’re easy to program.

I’m sorry but you said it was easy, quit moving goalposts. Show me the evidence of the swathes of competently programmed fighting games given how easy they are to program, instead of the dozens upon dozens of turds of people who tried and failed to make fighting games before learning how hard they actually are to make and program. All of them, ALWAYS feel on the physics and latency. ALWAYS.

i would actually say a reasonably decent AI for a fighting game is a bit harder to design that a reasonably decent AI for other games, because it needs to be aware of attack pattern and "think into the future", while other genres get away with "pathfind, move attack retreat or follow the script" with concept such as flanking and other strategical movement standing above minimum.

Attached: firefox_StlprUGTk1.png (651x189, 10K)

>You mean like Unreal Engine 4, which is used for pretty much all the successful fighting games in the market, you literal fucking monkey?
First you tried to use memewords as proof of programming difficulty.
You were told you don't know what defines programming difficulty, because you are a deodorant-dodging brainlet fighting gamer, and we don't expect your kind to understand anything beyond marketing-speech you are fed by EA-tier marketers or which you develop on your own as a genre-psychopath.
Then you were told you don't know shit about the difference between variable and fixed programming.
Then you started coming out with engine arguments which have nothing to do with genre in a topic where the original question was which genre is the most difficult to program for, which was you sidestepping like an ignoramus that you are.

All in all, your deodorant-dodging may be high skill, but your argument-dodging sucks ass.
Fighting Games ain't difficult to program, they are time-consuming. The difference between the two is big. Difficulty is defined by unsolvable barriers which require creative and new methods and tools to overcome.
Time-consuming is defined as the fighting genre where there's no programming barriers that exist anymore unless you are inventing new physics application like Exanima, and it's merely a matter of quantity and tweaking of pre-existing tools and methodologies which takes TIME.

God you Fighting Game retards are so low-IQ.

machine learning AI
Or even better: REALTIME reinforcement learning AI.

I have an idea for a concept game which is essentially an arena fight against a dark souls type boss with maybe 10 attacks and the ability to move anywhere around the arena within the constraints of speed and collision avoidance.

The first stage is just standard pre-programmed AI that uses a 100% exploit method and knowledge of only 3 out of the 10 attacks. Then each time you beat it the AI begins to blend in an increased percentage of explore (to an upper optimal limit) and uses the knowledge gained from each time you beat it to reinforce the AI for the next stage.

The goal would be to see how far you can get through the stages before the AI completely learns your movement patterns and becomes unbeatable. Essentially switching the rolls of boss AI and real player. Instead of you trying and failing constantly until you can beat the boss and eventually master it, it's the other way around.

>bbbut itts this one only! and he would agree!
But they are easy to program. Building engines to meet your autistic demands is hard.
Nice job further destroying the popular opinion about Smashfags btw.

RPGs are hard to make, you need to create a lore, create quests, manage cutscenes, branching dialogs, bosses, ect ...

2D/3D Plateformer are challenging, because a shit ton of them as been made, you need a good idea in order to be relevant

Simulation is hard because maths

Strategy is complex, you need a good AI to have a challenging game, or else the player get bored

Easiest genre ? FPS, they're basic af, most solo campaigns are corridors and multiplayer modes are basically arena fights with objectives (sometimes), you only need an original theme

Lmao name one rpg where the AI is not fucking terrible

Not a genre really, but games like Antichamber where the world changes in an inconsistent way and under various factors (Like if an object is being observed from a certain angle) . Antichamber is an example of this done easier, as it's just a maze game, but imagine making a FPS or hack and slash game like that.

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 140K)

>hundreds of replies in
>a squadron of anons are in the middle of an epic battle against a Smash retard who doesn't understand how to even breath
>user burst into the thread without even reading OP question.

Good fighting game AI, which is what the industry is trying to push for atm, due to them being excellent training partners, is AI that actually learns from you. So implement learning algorithms into the AI so it starts to pick up on your habits and punish you for it. Idk the details of how it’s actually being implemented, but something like Neural Networks wouldn’t surprise me. At least, that’s what I think how it should be done. The new SamSho showed off a feature like that, but I haven’t played it though, so idk if it’s marketing spiel. But yeah, it flies in the face of the retard who said the genre “has been perfected” and “doesn’t innovate” when it seems to be the first genre to try and integrate Neural Networks into games as competitive games are among the first to benefit from that.

That's all on the designer level though.

>is AI that actually learns from you.
So they are making AI stupid as fuck?

Shut up retard. We’re done arguing. You’ve done nothing but out yourself as an utter moron all thread.

>this moron is still at it
Did some FGC chad cuck you or what? Why are you so hellbent on this user?

same bro, although i think it's more that there's nothing really good worth playing out right now, and making my own game is genuinely more interesting than queueing into dota 2 for the 6th thousandth time. game dev is a game of its own and it's very fun until you have to design GUI stuff, then it sucks

Attached: flughammer.png (378x301, 15K)

Those are obviously separate people.

Have SCIP

Congrats mental retard, you came into a thread asking which genre is the most difficult to program for and in your attempt to glorify fighting games as a genre you made ENGINE arguments which have nothing to do with genre.
The same engine used by a fighting game and an areal combat game is harder to utilize in areal combat than in a fighting game from a programming perspective, same goes for many other genres utilizing the same engine. Fighting games are the lowest common utilization denominator for game engines next to platformers and racing games. You outplayed yourself deodorant-dodger.

Attached: 1322619524669.jpg (222x203, 8K)

I never said they were the most difficult. I was talking about how RPGs were easy as fuck, and then some moron started going “hurr durr, no hitboxes.”

No, they’re all obviously you, retard.

>I was talking about how RPGs were easy as fuck
Yet again you outplayed yourself.
RPGs are vast and varied.
There's fucking space RPGs with newtonian physics like Nexus The Jupiter Incident.
There's plenty of RPG types more complex to program than fighting games.
Lord have mercy on your low deodorant dodging IQ.

Attached: Mark_Hamill_(1978).jpg (416x566, 48K)

Just entered this thread, why is the fgc so retarded? Fighting games are simple as fuck compared to pretty much anything with a real physics engine.

>"What would be the hardest video game genre to program for?"
You can't answer this question with a code-only POV, it depends on your staff's experience, the platform you're programming on, which engine you use, how many employees you have, ect ...
And you can't ignore design either, that's what makes a game more or less complex to craft

If you want a code only answer, then anything that involve heavy maths, like simulations or physic-based games

>Nexus The Jupiter Incident
Not him, but isn't that a RTT?
I guess since you level up and equip stuff, it could be recognized as an RPG, but for the same reasons Baldurs Gate could be called a RTS

Attached: AGDG.png (2053x1781, 1.69M)

You’re an utter moron.

RTT/RPG yes.
RTT can also be applied to plenty of conventionally defined RPGs as well though. The genres mix often and in varied ways.
RPG is too undefined as a term these days.

Thanks for your input, now lick my dick.

People like you are so annoying. It doesn't make you seem smart simply because you are introducing additional variables into the question. Here's a little trick for you to use in future. If a question only contains one variable assume all others are equal. That way you can actually hope to answer it.

A RPG game engine that capable of actually providing a role playing experience, sure.

That would include excellent physics simulation and rich adaptive AI. Simply doesn't exist yet.

Every single RPG, Japanese or Western, so far is basically a series of hand coded patterns with a lot of walking and a few choices. At their core very simple games, with varying amounts of content and distractions.

peoples champ reporting in

>Simply doesn't exist yet.
Dwarf Fortress RPG mode. Made by an actual mathematician. You should kill yourself just for not knowing this yet being on Yea Forums.

You can't answer the question with this pov only anyway, good luck with that

He’s an idiot, stop trying to argue with him.

>Dwarf Fortress RPG mode

Absolutely retard.

DF can create some pretty interesting scenarios, but the way the NPCs behave is still pretty illogical, exploitable or simply chaotic for most part.

>but the way the NPCs behave is still pretty illogical, exploitable or simply chaotic for most part.
So in other words just like the chaos of the real world. Gottcha. Then it's the perfect RPG.

>it depends on your staff's experience, the platform you're programming on, which engine you use, how many employees you have etc
lemme break this down for you:

>staff experience
Very experienced
>the platform you're programming on
Whichever is optimal for the game
>which engine you use
whichever is optimal for the game
>how many employees you have
none, this is obviously posed as a single person project question. but even if it wasn't just use an equal number of employees.

See, not so hard once you isolate the variables.

MMO's are pretty much the most complicated

For real though, while MMO games present harsher real world problems (like lag, latency, and lots of people at once) than most titles, there are infrastructural limitations that cannot be directly addressed in code, only mitigated and hidden.

Any competent system would preloaded game content to each client at install or patch time, requiring only state and position information to be traded between clients. That can be as little as four or five numbers, but can balloon easily. The conceit being that clients themselves can actuate the game state themselves, deriving occurrences from the results of animations and positions locally -- but that is rarely a good idea because local clients can be modified and used to cheat. So, generally, most MMOs are implemented as two separate branches; an authoritative server, and some sort of hollow client. The nice part is that servers usually don't need a renderer. Its actually easier to think of it as the clients are the renderers and and the server the actual game world.

With potentially hundreds or thousands of players on a single server, the number of actors matches that of an RTS, only that your player actors don't need any sort of AI to operate, their decisions arrive over the internet. Most MMOs operate on a command basis instead of a control basis. Command in that you command your character to do something, and then the command is performed. Control being where you control the character fully, like in an FPS. You can elect to summarize the game state in command systems, sending fewer positional updates to clients, only sending meaningful updates like when another player starts to move out of range of an attack.

Also, generally, players sort of expect lag and you can get away with more shit in a MMO that just wouldn't fly in other games.

The several models animated independently is easy.
Everything else you listed is hell on earth

Lots of models skinning differently is actually sort of a hard thing to optimize. GPU skinning helps because it does a vert pass on every model anyways, but more models becomes fairly taxing on GPU time, especially if you need to send uniforms for each model because of their unique animation state. Batching helps, naturally, and therein lies the rub.

Indeed, but its still a baby walk if compared to the AI or fighting the internet.

You'd be surprised how lazy most JRPG AIs are.

>not programming your own cheats instead

Attached: showoff.webm (1920x1048, 2.53M)

combat is such an afterthought in JRPGs that i just can't believe it. literally the most barebones "combat" possible, something that you would see in a first year compsci student project, except dressed up with pretty animations and effects. fuck japanese boomers that let this shit still exist

Yea Forums doesn't have [code], but it has

Good AI for a 4X game.

Antichamber is mostly just instant teleports designed to produce pseudo non-euclidian space. Something you can do in Build engine.

>This isn’t coding, this is writing. Implementing it is easy as fuck.
t. doesn't know what goes on under the hood of a RPG

RPG dialogues aren't something where you can just draw a branch of and then stick it in. The non-linear nature of RPGs means that there's a fuckton of scripting involved. Most of the bugs in RPGs stem from NPCs not being where they're supposed to be after finishing a conversation because someone didn't factor in the day/night cycle for NPC scheduling for example, or because you need to fulfill some quota to open a lock of some sorts, only for external factors to somehow mess this up.

Then consider reactivity, where NPCs and player options need to accurately reflect changes in the world for the world to be any believable. So when an NPC dies for good, the response other NPCs have to that needs to make sense from every possible point in the story. NPCs need to logically respond to every option you can take, so when you have to enter the city with the logical option being through the gate, but you find a way around by swimming around the city and then entering through the harbor, the NPC expecting you should be able to anticipate that. With complex gameplay systems which allow a lot of outside-the-box solutions, this becomes hell on earth to manage or anticipate in terms of dialogue.

Shoddy-ass scripting and NPC scheduling is how you end up with abominations like Oblivion and Skyrim, which are like showcases for everything that can go wrong.
youtube.com/watch?v=N6hVmn9FM7o

Cave Story creator openly admitted to knowing nothing about making music, yet he made the music by himself.

It's possible, user.

And fallout 3.

The problem is that voiced RPGs are necessarily incapable of handling curiosities because space and VA time are expensive. Text-only dialogue is considerably simpler, and your designers should already have a roadmap of important characters and edge cases drawn up when writing them.

Anything that involves collision detection.
Fuck collision detection.

Very interesting. Kind of makes you appreciate game developers more. What games do utilize this scripting the best?

You get used to it.
and if you're doing 2D shit, just use line on line, it just fucking werks and you can get normals and reflections and all sorts of fun vectors from it.

if low.health:
heal();
else:
random.attack()

Oh shit

>all this math
wish i could learn how to code, i love the idea of making games, but i just don't know any math besides arithmetic and can't be bothered to learn all of that since i've always hated math just to learn programming which in of itself takes very long to get good at

Attached: 1533238168114.png (517x295, 174K)

>hate math but muh programming
This is why CS is widely misunderstood as a discipline and why schools dumb of down most of the time. They should just separate it into software development and then a proper CS education, which is literally pure math and engineering to solve new pure and applied math problems

>tfw double cs and math major
>tfw most cs students are dilating SJWs

what does this have to do with my post

Cool in theory might be bad in execution. Will certainly be a lot of cost for some small to average gain.

How are you going to implement the machine learning specifically? If it’s a neural net I can imagine that after many cycles the AI is literally going to spam the 1-3 most BS moves at its disposal and ignore everything else. At that point it’ll just be another very annoying enemy. It won’t be as fun as people think it will be.

i think card games

I double majored too. Luckily my school was like top 15-16ish for both subjects, so we had a de-memeified CS curriculum (lots of core math requirements, faculty who teach in both departments and are active researchers, etc. I’m pretty leftie so I’m probably in the SJW camp you’re complaining about, but I notice that CS students are divided into two camps: pieces of shit who were too stupid for traditional engineering wanted stem prestige/a paycheck for the least amount of work possible, and then double majors who do actual academic CS. The worst among the former are so smug for knowing literally the bare minimum

I made a slick inventory with buttons on Unity but I have no idea how to access them are there any good guides for this

“I’ve always hated math” is what killed the CS degree by popular demand. In most schools it teaches you codemonkeying rather than how to think through problems yourself. Why do you think so many people get filtered out through the simplest fizz buzz problems?

Attached: 4C64BEC7-A8CC-4F8E-8770-186603E6C8B3.png (1024x1094, 168K)

>have all the programming skills to make game
>have lots of ideas
>zero motivation to start working on them
Send help.

Attached: depressed.jpg (225x225, 17K)

>newton
You are like little baby.

Set a goal and a time limit for completing that goal

Physics simulation, something like Beam NG

no you don't, you lying piece of shit

Also “programmers” are the whiniest pieces of shit ever. I do algorithms and complexity theory research. Programmers ask you for good algorithms to solve really hard problems / open problems. You give it to them in reasonable polynomial constraints with good bounds on the constants. They complain it’s too slow, and you look at their implementation and see that they didn’t even implement your solution but worked out some dogshit spaghetti which solves the problem 1/4 of the time at a cost is O(n^5). I wrote out my algorithm in clear pseudo code and even tested it myself

Programmers are fucking stupid and among some of the most stupid people in the entire world, and I think after working with them for a few years, I hate almost all of them

I mean, Deus Ex had Icarus

Coding is literally impossible without knowing math. I'm not going to apply to some school or anything, so I don't get why you're complaining to me about people getting filtered out or whatever

Most programmers nowadays are söyboy leftist reddit-tier arrogant faggots or fucking pajeets. And they can't be really called "programmers" because all they can do is write some shitty app in latest fad of javascript and would have no idea what to do if they had to make a program in c/c++, work with pointers, manage memory, write parallel code or come up with fast and reliable software architecture. Real programmers are rare breed today.

It's usually RPG because you need lots of different things to work together besides all the regular stuff.

>>fucking pathfinding for multiple units
This, pretty much this, although there are a lot of ready to use advances on that regard.

Thread question was games difficult to CODE for not games difficult to MAKE. You’re answering the second question and hence are off topic user. You make a good case about why fighting games are hard to design and tweak. This doesn’t mean that it’s hard to code though. Try to approach this from an engineering perspective and not a manager’s.

MUGEN is a good example of this.

what's the best programming language to make game nowadays?

and the worst?

Hardest to program? Probably chess software with an actually elaborate AI.

Usually the most difficult thing to produce for games isn't the code, but the assets.

No I’m complaining about the degree getting watered down in most schools to bare minimum math. I double majored and did grad school in CS research. This field is literally all math, and math you would never think would be useful for CS but is. CS majors almost always treat math like it’s a necessary burden and do the barebones amount to get through algorithms I.

It’s how schools have by in large catered to the most brainlet form of a CS degree that pisses me off. I don’t like sharing even minimal association with these lifeless and passionless cucks who can’t even use induction on a simple problem

I don't care user, I just wanted to make games, but my peanut brain can't comprehend math nor programming, so I can't.

Maybe in the next life.

Attached: 1547143274064.jpg (1280x720, 92K)

MMOs aren't very difficult to make, there's just a whole fucking lot to make.

Driving simulators.

C/C++, nothing else is really relevant. They'll also teach you all programming concepts, so it won't be a big deal to use any other language later on.

See

do you think cs degree is actually more difficult than engineering?

who writes games in C anymore

if you're at the level of expertise where you don't even know what language to use, then either learn c# for unity or c++ for unreal. maybe the former for the sheer amount of documentation available

The Final Fantasy wiki lists all the AI for every enemy in FFVII, and some are pretty complex.

>I just wanted to make games
This is also what killed it. They should separate you guys away into a vocational school or something. You don’t need to waste an entire degree on
>video games
Unless you want to do engine development.

Not any deeper than most other roguelikes beyond worldgen

>Real programmers are rare breed today.
And that my friend is why they make good paper.

Yes, some are. But most are just following a pattern.
And I wouldn't call a habit of 8 things "complex".

I think it ought to be in more schools. At my school, it was considered as difficult due to it being very proof heavy and big on novel mathematical solutions. My curriculum was focused more on complexity and systems than anything related to software development

You don't need to know math to code since it's a structured language problem. You need math to help model specific things but it's write once and move on type of math. The only time you really need a lot of math skill is for specific problems without common solution. A scientific research setting but not a game development setting as much.

Besides that if you understand complexity then you're good to go.

Also, I consider “true” CS as hard if not harder than most engineering

Everyone on /agdg/ tells me I need to know a bunch of shit beyond basic arithmetic.

It depends on the problems you’re studying. I’m arguing that CS is about learning how to solve problems first and foremost, and that is done through math even in CS. Algorithmicists solve problems and software developers just implement them under constraints. I’m arguing that every CS student ought to come out of their undergrad both an algorithmicist and an engineer, but they come out being neither in most schools’ curricula

just copypaste it from google lmao

This is why the software industry is flooded with script kiddies

Right, cause what I would assume most difficult in engineering is physics. I know Math majors who suck at physics, weird, but they exist.

It's usually used for the amateur hobby crowd and people making their own engines from scratch. Most people use engines and higher level languages these days. It should be noted that if your code is clean and concise then the compiler will almost always outperform someone trying to be smart in C/C++.

i feel like really good AI is either incredibly simple or complex to the point that you can't even read it. just because an AI has a hundred if elses doesn't mean it's good or impressive, it's just painstakingly hardcoded to achieve some kind of behavior. the AI i made for my game basically drafts a list of all the possible actions it could do and gives each of them a score depending on hit chance, damage multiplier, target health and some special modifiers depending on each ability/weapon, then picks the highest scored one with some randomness. the page for the entirety of my AI behavior that I use for every enemy in my game is only 250 lines or something, it's the abilities, stats and specific AI flags that determine detailed differentiated behavior.

then there's one more level past that kind of AI, which is machine learning, which afaik isn't really readable in the same way that normal AI scripting is. i believe that's how you get something resembling intelligence from an AI. but i don't really know since i'm just an amateur

Physics is a different skill set entirely. I really liked physics and still study it to this day (On my own mostly) and hope to collab with some physics researchers one day on a theory problem

>start making the basics of a game for fun
>it actually werks
feels good man
But now I'm getting to the tougher topics, such as LOS that isn't ass

Attached: rogue_28_5_3.webm (1268x744, 1.35M)

>python
*unzips pants
>pees on you

Yeah they're wrong. People sell up big ideas and hyperbole and there is always someone willing to buy it.

Solving problems isn't necessarily about math. Though I can think of a number of cases in several problems in lets say psychological models needed to be used but even if it's complicated you just need to know how to transcribe the notation in to code. Then you're done for the most part. The rest of the time you're wrangling libraries together and trying to make the structure of your program unambiguous as possible.

A good degree though is typically more about preparing you for grad school so that you can become a proper scientist. Most people that take CS don't give a shit about the science so there is your problem.

C/C++ is the best, but C# will work too if you want something easier to learn but still powerful.
Absolute worst is python.

>implying I don't like it

This is your typical python dev.

Attached: laughing_neckbeard.jpg (640x400, 38K)

Music kiddies literally throw themselves at you. Go on soundcloud and search videogames and look for a low view count account that isn't complete trash. They'll suck your dick and make anything for you if you ask.

A tough one I see..
*teleports behind you
*unzips energy drink
*throws smegma at you

Best languages are things like C# and lua for scripting. The worst would technically be machine code, but C, C++ and anything typically low level is terrible for making games.

A potential game developer has to answer the question of whether they rather make games or make game engines. If it's the former go with high level languages like C# or whatever is used in the engine you use, if it's the later go with C or C++.

To be honest I'm kind of interested in learning a lower level language now that I got python well enough, this is kinda fun

no bully
I would make a good game for you user if I found the motivation.
>set goal and time limit
>wake up
>go wagecucking
>come back
>browse Yea Forums all evening and fap
>sleep time
>oh well I'll start working on my goal tomorrow
>repeat

Too bad that python teaches you shitload of bad practices that will make learning lower level language a pain.

it's easier to make a topdown shooter than a 2d platformer user

A metagame where the internal game logic and rules are modified as it runs.

Attached: 1488362222290.png (1280x719, 818K)

I'll see for myself

Netcode for thousands of users at once is a massive pain in the ass.

An MMORPG that is run by a machine learning AI to act as a dungeon master.

Like?

If you want to copy it though, you have to be a fucking higher mathematics professor with over 40 years of experience to implement the shit the man implemented with his skills...

>machine learning AI
People overuse that term so fucking much. Machine learning is nothing more than a glorified statistics and has nothing to do with Artificial Inteligence.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

MMOs, they have all the elements of other games plus all the networking shit that needs to work for so many players, etc.

Also simulation games must be hard to do because you're modelling stuff like the avionics of military aircraft.

Attached: army.jpg (1920x1080, 290K)

Yeah, but those statistics can be used to be like
>Huh, players are doing this one thing because they think its the most optimal, lets actively nerf it server side while buffing other activities

Is this how you'll pick which game to make for your Kickstarter you'll never finish?

>Anti-Fun: The Game

Attached: no_fun_god.jpg (400x400, 29K)

It is part of AI unless we're talking about the phenomenon that whenever AI is useful it's no longer AI.

Some actual non euclidian geometry in a "game":
youtube.com/watch?v=tl40xidKF-4

The most complicated video game is the stock market

Attached: oh no.jpg (1280x720, 54K)

MMORPGs are the hardest games to create from a technical perspective
doing RTS games well is pretty difficult too

Machine learning is statistics for brainlets who hate math.

It's the equivalent to what programming is to CS.

t. statsguy

CS is for brainlets who can't program though

Attached: 1472759405939.webm (960x540, 2.8M)

Wait what?
CS curriculums have functional programming, OOP, algorhithms etc.

>machine learning
>blockchain
>augumented reality

Attached: sojak_excited.jpg (644x800, 35K)

It isn't that advanced. There are a lot of limitations even to deep learning techniques. Neural nets in all their varieties have always been plagued by pretty hard limitations. It's not a black box that magically does the AI thing and presto there is your intelligent and adaptive behavior. The kind of AI you're talking about is hypothesized to require multiple techniques and some breakthroughs in things like common sense reasoning.

That said you could more easily just create a system that follows some rules to adjust values here and there basic on some player behavior.

It actually isn't. For decades much of it has been automated, there are automated systems that just continually make profits better than any human but they're restricted.

>data science
>sexiest job of 21st century
8O

The perpetual overhype about machine learning by startups trying to scam venture capital made people think that machine learning is literally computer capable of thinking like a human, like in sci-fi movies. It's fucking retarded.

I got ideas and I'm a 3d fag. Can you teach a brainlet like me how to use blueprints? I can't get over the initial learning curve to the point where I can self diagnose problems

>It actually isn't. For decades much of it has been automated
And the systems that automate it are bleeding edge in terms of speed because of all the money behind it.

>"yea, I'm a data scientist at this cool startup, I make machine learning and stuff, AI, you know, really advanced things"
>"so what you actually do?"
>"uhmmm, well I input data to Excel spreadsheet and run macros on them"

I'm trying to implement webkit into my engine. It would be great to have HTML5 based UI and the end user can mod them as they please

Goddamnit. Why do numales ruin everything.

You can't be serious?

Attached: spacewar3[1].jpg (600x400, 260K)

There is no clear cut answer. It really depends on what you're making in specific. You could make a platformer that's uber hard to develop, or you could make an RPG that's uber play it safe.

Can't lump it up as x genre is the hardest.

>You could make a platformer that's uber hard to develop
that would be difficult

>collision detection
That's what made GTA IV felt so nice to play, too bad it ran like shit.

>platformer
>hard to develop

Attached: 1562906165483.jpg (853x480, 61K)

>tfw I wrote trading bots for forex and crypto and now I have $10-20k passive income per month

Attached: wojak_nugreen.jpg (225x225, 13K)

What do you think that happened to this user before he could finish his post?

In terms of platformers, you could range from 2D "run+jump and dassit", to a complex 3D space filled with slopes and precision. And making sure the momentum is at least reasonable since standard physics engines aren't made for this kind of stuff.

I don't need to justify this. If you put thought into it, not every platformer is a Mario clone, even more so ones that are experimental. All the same, "point a to point b with a stat system" counts as an RPG. It's not clear cut and depends on what you're making, dingus burgers.

Compare the difficulty of making Mario 1 with making something like Sonic Generations.

Attached: file.png (540x221, 127K)

why do people lie on the internet?

Anything on Sega Saturn

Pls respond

Attached: IMG-20190707-WA0001.jpg (363x368, 23K)

platformers and action games in general are on the low end of the difficulty spectrum, with 3D being harder
3D is harder than 2D, strategy is harder than action, multiplayer is harder than single player

Simulators.

Loremaster as fuck over here
If I keep working on the lore I don't have to work on the game :):(

Attached: Fat_Kevin.jpg (293x236, 30K)

I'm not but don't tell /biz/

It's never this clear cut. Give me an example of an easy platformer to make, and I can give you an example of an easier RPG or simulation game to make.

My only point is that it really *really* depends on the specific project. And there is no real spectrum. Every genre sounds easy peasy until you actually develop it. Bonus points if you're doing a genre that's still a wild west.

Judging by the amount of games never actually finished and released and stuck in endless dev time im going to have to say western porn games.

Attached: birb.gif (300x300, 2.15M)

>It's never this clear cut.
It is though
All platformers are easy to make
a 3D Sonic game might be the hardest platformer to make seeing they have so much bullshit in them, but that's still easy to make compared to other system-heavy games
There's definitely a spectrum, there's a reason why most indie games are shitty platformers or zelda clones

Does "make a game" include building the engine too?
If so, the answer is systems languages (C/C++/Rust), if not, it's whatever scripting language demanded by your tool of choice.

>mfw someone tries to tell me making RPGs is hard

Attached: 1555082659107.png (378x320, 306K)

>Rust

Sounds like my job
>oh yeah, I run complex models to project future cashflows of insurance policies and set a reserve to ensure solvency under a set of 1-in-200-year stresses
>how do you do that?
>I upload a spreadsheet to the model and press 'run' four times per year

I forgot who or what it was called, but someone made this tech demo in Scheme, it was a short top-down adventure game that made heavy use of AI and natural language processing. The game didn't directly tell you anything about what you were supposed to do. Instead, there were NPCs that had programmed knowledge sets but no hard-coded dialogue, and you could ask them arbitrarily phrased questions, and if they were able to parse the meaning of the questions in terms of the world model, and were programmed to know the answer, they could use their knowledge to respond.

Sauce on that gif?

If you're capable enough, there's nothing wrong with writing a game in C or C++, it might be harder, but the game will run better.

No one on this board has ever written a single line of code in a professional environment.

>C, C++ and anything typically low level is terrible for making games.
C++ is the video game industry standard

It's standard because it's what everyone knows, not because it's the best.
Why waste money and time on training the new guys to use your special snowflake language when C++ gets the job done well enough?

>coding physics systems that require pinpoint accuracy that are borderline undocumented all in realtime
>RPG systems that all act with each other that need to justify their existance while viewing themselves in the whole big picture of the gameplay
It's almost like they're two different things that are incomparable in difficulty because they are two different things with unique challenges.

I can't compare or say x harder than y. Give me specific examples, and even then, maybe.
I think the idea of a genre difficulty spectrum is straight up stupid. Because you can't really.

It's the standard to make engines, not to make games.

Because C# and Lua are slower, and thus worse.

I did and I'm not proud of that because being wagecuck sucks.
t.programmer at bank

Actually, both C/C++ and C# are widely used in tandem on the same projects.
The C/C++ part is used for where quick is needed, such as level LOD, dealing with the graphical API, physics.. and the C# is used in parts where code done quick is preferable, such as scripting.
Trying to make a game with only C++ or only C# is retarded, because either you end up with a bunch of low tier programmers shitting on your code and huge compiling times, or you end with a game that performs like dogshit.

It's standard because it is the best, actually, it's not hard to learn a new language

Yeah you're right in that they're different, but as a generalization over the whole game, platformers and action games are easy to make
video gamey physics of the sort you see in platformers in particular are easy to make, you're making them sound harder than they are
I think you could accurately draw an spectrum of genres by difficulty of programming as an overlapping bar graph

An engine is part of a game

C isn't used anymore
C# is rarely used outside Unity
most common is either plain C++ or C++ with embedded scripting languages like Lua or a DSL

But you literally can.
Like literally anything, there's a skill floor and a skill ceiling. Where these are depends on the kind of game you're coding for. The curve between them is the ambition of your game. All of this is a blur to everyone but the few here who actually make a variety of different games. A puzzle game will always be -relatively- easier to make than an RTS, for example, but that doesn't mean puzzle games are always easy to make.

Indeed indeed.

I thought C++ was mostly used just because of Unreal
eventually at some point C++ will probably get phased out

>An engine is part of a game
Doesn't matter. That's like arguing John Carmack developped the original Call of Duty because it uses id Tech 3.

That and the truth is that AI applications and commercial AI are considered a bad thing by several pioneers. It means there is less money for basic research and fewer people interested in working on the big problems. They're too busy making lucrative toys and automating systems for big corporations.

youtube.com/watch?v=yyTx6a7VBjg
youtube.com/watch?v=3PdxQbOvAlI

C++ gives you the fastest binaries, so people will keep using it where speed is needed (ie games).
But as was pointed many times in this thread, only the speedy parts are written in C++, the rest of the game code runs into some scripting language such as LUA.

>I thought C++ was mostly used just because of Unreal
No way. C++ is the absolute standard, it's used everywhere

You're under the false assumption that every "engine" is seperate piece of third party software
most game engines are inhouse projects that are loosely coupled to the games they are running

A lot of the difficulty comes in just how much R&D you have to do with your specific game. The same way that duct tape code might make an RPG be hell to develop, platformers also require you to at least be semi-competent and have more of a focus elsewhere. Maybe it's that I'm usually more interested in the "harder to develop" end of platformers and action games, but I can't realistically say those sound any easier. Not to mention the competence required to bring it all together past programming.

Your argument is pretty much "RPG systems are usually more difficult to develop than platformer physics". And my argument is just "which ones?". Again, I can't even begin to judge without examples, because this crap varies.

I can agree with this angle more. But I still like viewing stuff in a case by case basis more.

No one except very large studios like Naughty Dogs is using an inhouse engine. That's a very small fragment of the medium. Definitely not an "industry standard" practice.

well Unreal could also be considered a standard of the industry at this point as well
It seems like AAA devs tend to use Unreal more than anything else especially these days

>Your argument is pretty much "RPG systems are usually more difficult to develop than platformer physics". And my argument is just "which ones?"
The ones intrinsic to the genre, obviously
Platform games don't have any unique systems over any other action game. There's very little new ground to cover technically
Many RPG games these days often include all the subsystems of a typical action game aswell as the stuff that runs their RPG (RPGs and strategy games in general requiring much more indepth AI, gameplay systems and user interfaces)

I didn't say you can't do it but it will take more time, wasted time. You will probably end up implementing lua scripting at which point what the fuck did you just waste time on.

It's a standard for engines. If you want to build an engine from scratch go ahead and use it.

Most of that stuff is already in your engine by the time you get to it. Unless you're saying you don't trust the C/C++ code of other people there is not much point to reinvent the wheel. If you're asking which is better to use then you're not at the bleeding edge of tech where it matters for performance to make a custom low level solution.

>float G = 0.0000000000667
shoo shoo pajeet!

Your view is skewed by indie developers. Most industry developers use inhouse engines, although they may have seperate engine and game teams, the engines are loosely coupled with the game systems also being written in C++

A game like The Sims
>Create a character
>Clothe them
>Make outfits
>Give them traits
>Give them an aspiration
>Create a world
>Build a house
>Get a job
>Simulate needs
Now do that x80 and do it constantly and simultaneously
Honestly it's a fucking miracle The Sims 3 even runs at all

Attached: 15688223278.png (153x109, 36K)

Bare basics platformers and bare basics RPG are still tutorial tier. In which case it's more an argument of "which one goes off the walls more?"
>Platform games don't have any unique systems over any other action game.
I disagree. The platforming sections in action games usually aren't even close, and are there to change pace.
>Many RPG games these days often include all the subsystems of a typical action game aswell
Nah. If you find a competent platformer, the character controller feels light years ahead of even the highest budget RPGs in even bare basics like collision detection. Where in a standard big budget AAA RPG will often find you having the grounded check flicking on and off rapid fire as you spam jump over a tiny hill. The shift in focus is palpable. I don't agree at all with the sentiment that action games and RPG do what a platformer can. I just truly think that the man power goes else where. I still hold my opinion that it's not worth comparing.

Speaking of experience going "this genre is easy peasy" than eating crap when seeing the general unspoken design issues you have to figure out.

Yes yes, scripters never use C++ and it's a good thing.
But engines are always made in C++.

>RPG
Although true of any genre, actually making a GOOD RPG is harder than it looks. It's easy enough to code a basic JRPG combat engine (I wrote one when I was 10). 2D map exploration is easy enough, too.

But if you actually want to achieve something interesting that players will find novel and exciting, it'll be a lot harder.

Baldur's Gate cleverly implemented a RTwP system into a Warcraft-like 2D game engine to seamlessly integrate turn-based D&D combat system with real-time interactive map exploration, something that no other game had been able to accomplish to that degree until then.

Final Fantasy Tactics really explored the potential of 3-Dimensional maps. Programming a tactical battle system for a 2D grid (or even a hex map) is MUCH simpler than programming one for a real 3D map like you have in FFT. Also on the topic of AI, FFT has a reasonably sophisticated AI (however dumb you might think it is gameplay-wise, it's impressive for the PSX.

Some RPGs can be acclaimed or worth playing based on content alone, but most of the most famous and memorable RPGs did something unique and innovative technically as well.

What brokerage account do you use with the bot?

None of your points are being made from a technical perspective. How a game feels is a matter of polish. The physics system that runs a platformer is just like the physics system that badly moves around your character in an RPG, minus alot of polish and tweaking. You could perhaps compare the technical complexity of an RPG and a platformer in the SNES era, but today, RPGs are much more complex

This is all about the engine though not the game. Unreal can be used but most people use it with that visual style of components with the code practically pregenerated. It's not the style that is used low level itself. Similar with other engines, what you're doing at that point is just using the syntax but it's not really better.

The question is how far do you really want to go, because you could also make your own compiler that does optimizations. You can keep going too. There are people that do that but at some point you have to draw the line.

Low level languages like C and C++ aren't really used for games, they're used for engines which are tools to build games. You use higher level languages in those engines made in lower level languages to build those games.

In most cases C and C++ aren't used directly anymore for making games which is fine because compilers and engines are smarter than you at optimizing stuff.

Which is why if you want to make an engine use C/C++ but if you want to make a game use something like C#.

Your view is completely based on how indie developers work which is not how the real game industry works
C++ is the standard used for games, there is no clear seperation between game and engine, commercial game engines aren't a bubble wrapped editors where you write scripts and slap down objects, they're C++ libraries that you import and write more C++ code ontop of

yeah that's the weird question.
when we're talking about "programming" are we talking about engine development or content creation? Because content creation can be difficult to do well in a RPG, but doesn't necessarily count as programming.

Also, stat systems aren't necessarily basic logic. They do tend to be on average, but I'd say if you really want to make a new RPG that people will get excited about, doing something novel and interesting with stats, something that is actually hard to pull off technically, and hard to present to players in a fun and interesting way, is where the real opportunities are. (Of course nobody actually does because odds are you will fuck it up and it'll be a wasted effort)

>Meanwhile an RPG can get away with a neat little flashy animation, a catchy tune, some canned SFX, and a simple math equation for damage calculation, and that’s it.
yeah but the good ones don't merely do that. Yes you "can" get away with it, and end up with a generic RPG Maker project, but any RPG worth talking about will be more than that.

Agreed with all of that except for FFT, because mathematically that game is still entirely 2D with tile height as a terrain attribute.

>How a game feels is a matter of polish.
Some games more than others. Where with platformers you can really feel when the game cheaps out (Sonic Unleashed vs Sonic Forces), other games wouldn't really benifit in comparison.
>None of your points are being made from a technical perspective.
To do so, I need a specific example. Otherwise I can say jack crap outside of vague generalizations, which I argue is disingenuous.

>The physics system that runs a platformer is just like the physics system that badly moves around your character in an RPG, minus alot of polish and tweaking.
No way. RPG player controllers are usually awful in comparison to a sub par 3D platformer. If we're going the "RPGs are objectively more comprehensive" route, this will take a while due to how much I need to go through. For example, scale can go to hell in an RPG, but in a platformer really dictates what sense of motion that exists.
>but today, RPGs are much more complex
But always RPGs were more complex in a different area entirely.

This conversation I hope you realize can take a handful of eternities. And I can see this derailing into "just what is an RPG" tier stuff that has its own thread. I'll have to leave it as I just disagree. I don't think the difference is worth quantifying even if it could.

CS is all math tho. Programming is the intellectually easy part, but also the most frustrating.

A lot of people get confused because of how terms are used to describe lots of different things. People might be thinking of a simple Zelda-like when they say RPG or they might be thinking of Neverwinter Nights. When you get to making DnD-like RPGs you will spend an ungodly amount of time getting all the systems and subsystems to work together seamlessly. Considering all of the unforeseen interactions the prospect of programming jump physics for a platformer is much easier. A lot of people just don't realize that.

No the view is based on the real world. You're parroting age old garbage that distracts people from their goals. So many companies have gone under or almost went under trying to cobble their own engine together. So many smaller games have died or been in development hell for over 10 years because they made it in C++ like a bunch of retards stuck in the 80s and early 90s.

Character controllers in RPGs and platform games both work the same, technically. You have an invisible shape with a velocity and some properties, you do sweep tests and advance the character. In a platformer this will have more polish and more complexity, but it is not technically more difficult. It's not harder to program. Platformers and action games are like the bare basics for what games need to work, an update system, rendering, input, sound, physics, and then some gameplay logic. RPGs have all these systems except their AI and gameplay logic and user interface are vastly more complicated. You can quantify the difference between all these game genres as a generalization, you just can't see it because you lack the experience

>mathematically that game is still entirely 2D with tile height as a terrain attribute
Semantically meaningless in this case. The height attribute is fully meaningful to the gameplay with many abilities having varied height hit ranges, calculated fall damage, jump height, and line-of-sight calculation for shooting arrows that can handle things like targets being under a bridge (and gives bonuses to shooting from high ground). At that point there's little meaningful difference between "3D" and "2D with tile height as a terrain attribute." Sure there's no full 3D aerial combat between dragons and such, but compared to the vast majority of tactics games, it's a fucking 3D map.

Attached: zirikele_falls.gif (356x410, 47K)

>smaller games
As I already pointed out, I'm not talking about smaller games
All the games people care about are made in C++, with C++ engines with C++ game code written ontop of it aswell as some scripts
Yeah you probably shouldnt write your own engine as an indie developer, but that's not what I'm talking about, don't assume what you see as an indie developer is how the entire world works

>Character controllers in RPGs and platform games both work the same, technically.
Not even. 3D RPGs usually stick with the stock physics frameworks like Havok or PhysX, and only worry about the most play it safe collision possible (see God of War). Meanwhile the moment you go crazy, these fameworks fall apart, and you can no longer rely on them. VR developers specifically express how a good portion of their development time is making these frameworks work since they just aren't good enough out of the box. RPG's don't care in the slightest for this. Total non issue.

>you just can't see it because you lack the experience
Nah. I think we aren't thinking of the same use cases. You don't play many platformers if you genuinely think one does the other better and more. You haven't experienced the 1000 and 1 edge cases that happen when coding a platformer that really tries to double down on fine player control that's more than just lerps and animation transition. You remember how Yooka Laylee got crap since it's physics were considered janky for relying too much on PhysX?

Would you say fighting games are easy to develop since they don't have as much systems as RPGs? Because if anything those games are infamously difficult to develop, but I can chalk it up as "bare basics, punch someone until they fall".

I'll double down my point. Every game sounds easy peasy until you realize the specific challenges no one talks about. Maybe the most basic of platformers is easy to make, but is that worth quantifying? Because you aren't quantifying the most basic of RPGs to play it fair.

>C/C++

>3D RPGs usually stick with the stock physics frameworks like Havok or PhysX,
Nearly every game uses a physics framework, and then character controllers are implemented within those physics frameworks that use a custom movement implementation because you can't do normal rigid body physics for player characters cause it's wonky as shit. The only difference is platform games have more polished controllers. You don't know what you're talking about here

> You haven't experienced the 1000 and 1 edge cases that happen when coding a platformer that really tries to double down on fine player control that's more than just lerps and animation transition
I have when I was a bad programmer, when you're a good programmer you write robust movements that dont have them

>Would you say fighting games are easy to develop since they don't have as much systems as RPGs?
Yes, they're very easy to program, apart from the online implementation, what the fuck are you talking about
You really sound like you're speaking from lack of experience

>made an SMT-like engine
>dont have any ideas to add real content into it
Shit sucks

Guys, If I wrote super complicated action RPG game with tons of mechanics and features would you play it or am I wasting my time?

>You don't know what you're talking about here
You're right. Talking out of my butt. All this text and I'm unsure of myself. Yup.

>I have when I was a bad programmer, when you're a good programmer you write robust movements that dont have them
I'll give you that. But again, Yooka Laylee was infamous for not having proper player control, and that was made from industry veterans. What about Sonic Forces? Or any 3D platformer people complain about?

>Yes, they're very easy to program, apart from the online implementation, what the fuck are you talking about
Oh, I see, so you're a know it all. NO attempt to acknowledge the widespread issues of the genre and the infamous lack of documentation.

Regardless of what the conclusion of the discussion is, I already emphasized, it's worthless. At best it's disingenuous.

>super complicated action RPG
The best ARPGs are deep but also intuitive and don't seem complex. It's turn-based fans who love things complicated.

3d RTS with complex level structure. Good pathfinding is really a challenge.

I admit I haven't programmed a fighting game, what do you think is so hard about them?
You talking alot doesn't mean you know alot. You don't sound like you know alot. Being an "industry veteran" doesn't mean shit, as you should be able to see from all these bad Kickstarters. Can't comment on the problems with Yooka Laylee because I haven't played it, but again, a bad end result has nothing to do with the underlying technical challenges, which is the original question, how difficult are different genres to program. You say you can't answer because it's indeterminate, the truth is you can answer, you just lack the experience to answer

MMOVRARPG.
Doesn't exist yet, no one wants to put the time in, and the customer base isn't quite there yet. The technology needs just a little bit more push to get there.

god games like black and white

>RPG dialogues aren't something where you can just draw a branch of and then stick it in. The non-linear nature of RPGs means that there's a fuckton of scripting involved. Most of the bugs in RPGs stem from NPCs not being where they're supposed to be after finishing a conversation because someone didn't factor in the day/night cycle for NPC scheduling for example, or because you need to fulfill some quota to open a lock of some sorts, only for external factors to somehow mess this up.

It's actually fairly easy to base an event scripting system on predictable state machine systems that enforce stuff will be in the right place. There are even types of systems that can be scientifically proven to be 'sound', i.e. correctly reach (one of) the expected end state(s) for all possible input states.

It's just that the same studios that keep churning out open-world RPG games that desparetely require these type of systems, are *also* the same studios employing fucking monkeys with a long career or iterative screwups. I.e. Bethesda.

Some - maybe even most - of the Papyrus source code for the official scripted content created for the Skyrim DLCs is fucking nightmare fuel that a freshman straight of the worst college imaginable would be ashamed of to have produced.

I'll admit I haven't programmed a fully fledged RPG, only a platformer with RPG elements. But all the same, from experience I know what this sounds like. "This genre sounds easy".

Fighting games are infamous because to this day companies like Capcom more or less went back in terms of game feel. The knowledge needed to pull off a fighting game well isn't exactly a common thing, and documented less. To make a competent fighting game you'll need to make your own tools and file formats for properly storing hitboxes 2D or 3D, since for the most part tying hit boxes to mesh position isn't the greatest idea. And you'll need to align that to the animation, handle states *well*, and even pass that the age old issue of handling game feel with an action game, now this time even more condenses than usual.

You say action games and RPGs do everything platformers can, but the games I've seen that even make that sentence vaguely true are borderline not even RPGs anymore, and still don't come close. You can chalk it up as a lack of experience, but unless you've straight up made every game mentioned in the argument, you can't honestly say. And I'm willing to bet that 0.00001% of Yea Forums has that knowledge base of both top tier difficulty platformers as well as top tier difficulty RPGs. Not me or you, I'm willing to bet. *both* of them in order to pull the "lack of experience" card.

It's just a pet peve when I see people argue about this game's development is harder or not. When making games, often times what you find is true is your own personal truth for your own design philosophy, past that only in the context of what you've made. As you can tell, "objective truths" that can easily be argued make me butt hurt.

I want to make a Tamagochi game for mobiles. How'd you rate GODOT for that?

>To make a competent fighting game you'll need to make your own tools and file formats for properly storing hitboxes 2D or 3D
That's incredibly fucking simple
An elementary school student could do it
"Gamefeel" has nothing to do with anything technical
I have made 2D and 3D platformers and RPGs and I'm speaking from experience, what you see as a player has nothing to do with how difficult the game actually is to program
It's not a simple question, but it is a question you can answer

>what's the best programming language to make game nowadays?

Multiple languages for different needs.

Rust for guaranteed thread safety and other modern niceties in a package that offers extremely competitive execution speed with raw C/C++, i.e. for close to the metal engine work.

C# for the game logic on top of that, capable of being quite safely written by less capable engineers, if need be. Offers excellent refactoring facilities, wide support for all manner of architecture principles, etc. Base it on .NET Core and use its ability to compile down to native code and if you wish; statically link only the portions of the runtime that are actually used.

Then on top of that either Lua or JavaScript for scripted events. Modern JS engines actually don't perform _that_ bad anymore and the language itself is incredibly prototyping friendly. Don't bother with homegrown languages, you'll never ever be able to get their compiled output optimized well enough.

(Fun fact: many AAA games still have onscreen menus, huds, etc. written in a derivative of Adobe Flash. Yes. Really.)

why are you recommending rust for game development

I'd honestly say math experience is not an actual requirement. The only thing you'll miss out on is being able to conjure up complex functions much faster, but otherwise, it's just simply being aware of what all your variables need to do.

>then there's one more level past that kind of AI, which is machine learning,

Which would actually work really, really well for RPG games. Especially turn-based ones.
Predictable input sequences (the player's 'moves') and predictable reactions (the enemy's available arsenal) from which to pick a response that leads to the best odds of success (i.e. defeating the player).

A machine learning solution is an excellent way to handle that.

>That's incredibly fucking simple
>"Gamefeel" has nothing to do with anything technical
What worth does the programming have if the game controls like buttocks? Because that's still your job and an inherent challenge. Sweep it under the rug since it's not the same challenge, I see.

I might lack experience, but the air of snarkyness in your posts is insufferable. I can feel the wanting to pull the "indie platfomer" card, but just barely holding back.

According to you, platformers are inherently easy and RPGs are inherently hard. As if that makes any sense. Whenever you bring up the diffficulty of developing a platformer you default into tutorial tier work. But then you bring up top tier RPGs. Then I bring a counter argument and you go "nah, I have more experience" and "that doesn't count" as if it's an argument. Good discussion.

Regardless of the conclusion, utterly worthless. The air of "I don't know what I'm getting at but I'll get him" and smug brogrammer reminds me not to talk about game development or any part of it on Yea Forums. Reminds me of /3/ too much.

I started with Python and had no problem transitioning to C# and C++. Python's also fun for what it is. Give the guy a break.

dont waste your time
brainlets cant comprehend anything beyond
>ebin mario plays itself skynet is here XDDD
machine learning trash

> Machine learning is nothing more than a glorified statistics and has nothing to do with Artificial Inteligence.

To paraphrase Arthur C Clarke:

"Decisions from any suitably complicated and well-trained ML net are indistinguisable from actual intelligence."

It doesn't need to *be* actual artificial intelligence to have a convincing show at it in a simple game with constrained rules.

The best programming usually requires both expert-level domain specific knowledge in some unrelated or tangentially-related field, which is sometimes math, but not always; and full technical autism not just about languages and coding but also operating systems and protocols and hardware and so on. Sometimes this is more than one person.

>What worth does the programming have if the game controls like buttocks? Because that's still your job and an inherent challenge. Sweep it under the rug since it's not the same challenge, I see.
what? The conversation is about how hard the game is to program, you're talking about the designers job
I could be alot fucking ruder than I am being because you're talking about something you don't understand. Don't get mad and call ME elitist because YOU'RE wrong. I'm not looking down on you. If you don't want people to act like assholes, don't act like you're so sure about something you aren't
If you want to be very specific here,
the most basic 2D platformer < the most basic 2D RPG < average 2D platformer < complex 2d platformer or Metroidvania ~ simplistic SNES style 2D RPG < 3D platformer ~ complex 2D RPG like Baldurs Gate < any RPG more complex than that
Not an absolute standard but I believe it's fairly accurate

Because enforced memory safety, thread safety, etc.

It's the best *language* just doesn't necessarily give you the best resources to work with in the current development climate and job market.

starting with Python is much better than starting with Java or C#.
FWIW My recommendation is:
1. Python
2. C (Haribson & Steele is a great comprehensive reference)
3. Platforms, Systems, and Hardware (Unix, HTTP, TCP/IP)
4. SQL
5. Whatever you want.

Reasoning is that 1+2 are extremely useful for 3, while 3 and 4 are extremely useful no matter what you wind up doing.

Dont fucking recommend your pet language that literally nobody uses for the task to beginners you weasely fuck
Nobody uses Rust for gamedev
memory safety for gamedev just gets in the way

The programmer still has to take the role of a designer at times. You don't hire the artists to do the player control for you. And it can still be spicy. A huge portion of Mario 64's development was just making sure he controlled well in a void. "easier to program" doesn't mean much if you're ultimately who's going to tackle the hard problems. I mean, it's "technically" right.

You talk about your experience yet you also say that industry veterans having issues with the genre doesn't mean much. The air of smugness annoys me because I don't feel its justified. A lot of discussions can end earlier on if people realized they're talking in the realms of specifics. You have no right to say "you don't know what you're talking about" in this specific argument.

I've emphasized before I think the discussion is utterly worthless, so I don't care who has the "winning" conclusion. My point and the extent of my point is that it's utterly disingenuous. Bring specific examples, otherwise there is nothing to be said.

That's my argument and it's within the realms of opinion. There is nothing worth arguing. And that's why I bring the spice- I've wasted my time. To be honest not on you.

Average programmer here. Solid grasp of OOP but I work as a web developer doing a lot of server side scripting.

Anyone else get jaded by the fact it doesn't matter how hard you study/practice you will never be as good as the legit genius programmers? The kind of guys that take 3 lines to write a function that takes you 20. Some people are just born with vastly superior logical mathematical brains.

What kind of physics does that game have?

I think starting with C# is okay but you're making things harder on yourself for no reason
starting with Java seems stupid
Python is definitely the easiest most painless way to start that will likely translate to future success and easy transitions

Im smug because you started talking shit about something you didn't understand and kept continuing to push the point

>You talk about your experience yet you also say that industry veterans having issues with the genre doesn't mean much
Here is what happens with Kickstarters
""""Industry veterans""""" who may not have even done any work in games for the last 10 years and may not have even been very good to start with Kickstart a project based on something they used to work off. They usually don't have any management experience either. They proceed to hire cheap workers (because Kickstarter funds are never enough to make a game) who AREN'T veterans and they produce something that's garbage. Don't take things at face value.

Yeah some things are different to program than others. Fighting games are really easy to program, but the online component of a fighting game and making it good is actually a really tricky problem. It's not so hard to measure. But you can make a generalization like I did, I don't know why you have to get mad at that

My friend is trying to get me into programming and he's teaching my Python. What's so bad about it?

>The kind of guys that take 3 lines to write a function that takes you 20.
Writing one-liners is more about knowing the language than being intelligent

nothing, he's talking shit. python is an industry-standard language and very friendly to learn

Rhythm games are probably the one most engines are completely unacceptable for.

Ehh, not when it comes to looping algorithms. You need very strong math skills to write them efficiently.

if you think loops require strong math skills then you are a beginner programmer and have a long road ahead of you and shouldnt be feeling inferior

it it was good. no one but autistic spergs play games just for the sake of complexity.

Attached: 56b19e14c96859d121c2946ee9089c6793e6ffcbaaaa991329575694239781eb.jpg (255x170, 14K)

No, because the difference in natural affinity between two programmers only contributes to a relatively small portion of their skill level. The rest is work. Lots of uninterrupted practice. And if you get to the point where the only way you could be better is if you had better genes, you are already one of the best in the world.

Simulations. The more you want to push the sim, the harder it gets to make it all run without shitting itself.

>you started talking shit about something you didn't understand
My whole argument is that we can't argue. The opposite. Your argument is "I know" my argument is "We can't know". Bring a specific example, and I could either back it up or apologize. My posts are written in a rush.

My posts are a bit spicy because I really disagree and have a pet peve for people dubbing way too much as fact. That and my posts are written in a rush, so knee jerk reactions are what you get.

I just can't agree with absolutes like
>Fighting games are really easy to program
When for the most part they're an anomoly in the west and require some not exactly common place experience in the genre to pull of vaguely well. I'll own up and say that my posts aren't programming specific. But that's in part that the raw programming part doesn't tell the full story, and I can't get specific. In addition, I *can* program, but that's not my focus. But even I can tell the difficulty of making something work in code can be past its implementation, and it's still on you. And requires some very specific R&D.

It's like "do I get stabbed by a shishkebab skewer, or Poseidon's trident?" These are questions you'd ask as a joke since you can't honestly give a right one.

Learn the short hands, that way you can have a higher perceived IQ.

It's a scripting language and not really meant for making games. It's used a lot in scientific computing, system administration, and web (backend) development. It has a fantastic standard library and is really an excellent tool for learning how computers work. It's very simple to use and comes with a REPL for immediate feedback and testing. You don't need the massive Microsoft IDEs and other garbage required for languages like C#.

But Python is also a dynamically typed language, has built-in memory management, and a variety of other features that make life easy for solo programmers but usually involve sacrifices in efficiency, performance, and collaboration that most serious game developers won't tolerate.

cool

For one it's not my pet language. Furthermore, no one was talking about beginners being a requirement?

Why the *FUCK* would you recommend a beginner to even contemplate writing their own *ENGINE* (which is what Rust would be used for...) anyway?

>python is an industry-standard language
FUCKING LMAO in dilation industry maybe

>if you think loops require strong math skills

I didn't say that, I mean complex loops that are coded optimally. Surely you need strong math skills to write them? Otherwise you just nest a load of shit and it looks messy.

>born with vastly superior logical mathematical brains

Feel sorry for those people instead. Those innate logical/mathematical skills usually come with the social baggage of being pegged quite far out into the autism spectrum as well.

>C#
>hard
Nigga what?

>memory safety for gamedev just gets in the way
I mean if you enjoy optimized games, then sure

>looping algorithms
That's like entry level stuff. Come back when you reach concurrent programming and then talk about hard stuff.

fighting games are easy to program is a relative thing to say
they're easy compared to other games
very small amount of characters, very simple logic and physics, the game is just two guys fighting (or maybe a few more in some other games). Very simple from a technical perspective. None of this requires knowledge to be passed down from developer to developer like a wizard cult, most developers figure things out on their own anyway by looking at how other games do it. I'm just talking about the programming here. That was the question. I don't know what examples you want, I've explained why an RPG is usually more difficult than a platformer

>You don't need the massive Microsoft IDEs and other garbage required for languages like C#.

.NET Core only needs the SDK and VSCode or another compatible IDE.
Both are available cross-platform as well.

The year is 2019. Not 2010.

>Surely you need strong math skills to write them?
no it's just really basic programming, nothing to do with math lol

if he wasn't a beginner he wouldn't ask "what language do I use"

safety has nothing to do with performance

>no it's just really basic programming, nothing to do with math lol

Like I said, I'm an average programmer so I'm not gonna take offence lel. But I really don't understand how being optimal with return functions/methods has nothing to do with math

>None of this requires knowledge to be passed down from developer to developer like a wizard cult
Agreed, but it does take time to learn and get used to.
>programming here. That was the question.
I derail stuff a lot. Apologies.

>fighting games are easy to program is a relative thing to say
>they're easy compared to other games
I'm so angry, I'm going to do a back flip.
IMO, game feel still counts as programming, and getting that right still counts. But I can see what you mean in terms of setting up the whole framework.

>he wouldn't ask "what language do I use"

That's not what he asked.

knowing the runtime complexity of nested loops isn't difficult math
like if you have for x = 1 to 10 for y = 1 to 200 how many iterations is it going to run?
10 * 200 = 2000
thats not difficult to figure out

not that guy, I'm this one()
the issue is not that C# is hard, the issue is that there's a thick abstraction layer and large tooling ecosystem that has language-specific idiosyncracies. In other words, learning C# first tends to make you a C# programmer.
Python on the other hand, while also a very high-level language, is much simpler and straightforward in its default tooling and programming, giving your a much better feel for the relationship between code you write and how it turns into meaningful results.

>IMO, game feel still counts as programming
As far as programming goes, gamefeel for fighting games is having an update loop that is locked to the framerate so it has zero input lag. That's it. Everything else is on the game designers who set up how the characters move and how their animations work. If you have experience in 2D games you could set up a fighting game engine in a matter of days. Many skills are transferable between game genres, fighting games aren't that much different from a platform game, technically speaking

Python just needs python and any text editor.

fair enough
Rust is still shit though because borrow checking just gets in the way

You can edit c# in n++ and compile it in SDK as well.

>having an update loop that is locked to the framerate so it has zero input lag
That will not give you zero input lag. It will reduce it, but there still will be some

It worked for vanilla WoW.

That'll give you as close to zero as you can get as a programmer, I mean you can't account for the users hardware

python programs don't need to be compiled.

$ python
Python 2.7.16 (default, Mar 20 2019, 12:15:19)
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import socket
>>> socket.gethostbyname('www.4channel.org')
'104.17.78.75'

I see. Maybe it's because I'm not a professional programmer, but as far as I'm concerned programming and game feel are both lumped together. And while action games usually aren't as system heavy, it's all about if it's fun to play. And I see people screw up even the basic systems that go in these action games. Which leads me to say if you have this skill set, this is easier, otherwise a huge bulk of the challenge is understanding what you're working with along with the game you're making. But this is a game *programming* thread, not general development, and it *is* potentially off topic.

>Many skills are transferable between game genres
This I agree with. Pretty big overlap between 3D platformers and action games for example. Or more complex 2D paltformers and 2D fighting games.

Ah ok, good point. I personally found C# helped me transition into C++ rather smoothly, but to each their own I guess.

>runtime

Yeah there we go, since my job is solely website db integration etc. I've only ever practiced application stuff in my free time. Seems I'm more ignorant that I thought

LOL!! Noob, this faggot never do a game in his life.

>"yes, I do use Java3D and believe it is the best, after all it powers the best selling game in the world."

Attached: gigachad.jpg (1080x1331, 135K)

>Not in the slightest. 2D platformers require physics, hitboxes, and a bunch of other stuff that’s significantly complex and prone to bugs
2D collision detection and resolving isnt hard at all compared to 3D.

Well technically you are deciding how the game feels via programming, it's just not *difficult* programming, cause all you're doing is tweaking values and shit, that's stuff a game designer does on a bigger project
The difficult programming is designing and building the systems that allow you to tweak those values

well all programs run at some point

Minecraft has long since been rewritten in C++, if I recall. At first they made an "educational" version for schools which was separate from the other versions, but I believe they are switching it up for Win10 and pocket editions.

Well there's no "wrong way" and if you know what your goal is and stick with it it doesn't matter all that much.
Honestly my opinion on this one is less strong than on learning core C and low-level OS apis sooner than later. Personally I just think it's easier to go from Python to C and C# to C.

Probably an online fighting game. Or something like blade and soul but where pvp combat is not a cluster fuck. Making the interactions Not shit would probably take both good animations but also net code to make the attacks and counters work as expected.

That makes sense. I've been viewing this more in a design standpoint than programming. I've been whining about wasting time but I've probably wasted your time with all this.

>3 hours ago
Oh man.

>2D collision detection and resolving isnt hard at all compared to 3D
Depends if you are using AABBs or more complicated shapes. Sure, 2D is always gonna be simpler, but for complex 2d simulations 3d isn't that much different other than an added axis to consider.

why do people think they have to bunnyhop between languages instead of just learn the one they want

I don't have anything better to do

java edition still exists, and it still got it's start with java3d

You can learn new things from other languages, and it's added job security if you know more than one. For a lot of people, like indie developers, a single language is fine, but many larger projects might require you hopping between multiple ones. As a fullstack developer, I gotta jump between SQL, javascript and C# every so often.

Yeah, I'm just pointing out that it's not quite the same situation with minecraft and java as it was many years ago.

play space station 13

I mean, that's an uber complex multiplayer RPG that's ascended tier. Try it out some time. Think the kind of fun factor from TTT, but multiplied by a few hundred.

I kind of want to learn C as just a thing to do. I only have a basic grasp of programming in other languages

Are there any cool things I could with it? I kind of want to try making an emulator of some kind

It depends on the learner (and to some extent the teacher).
C++ has a very steep learning curve.
A language like Python has a very gentle learning curve, while also being designed to be a legitimate production language that sees a lot of real use and so has a thriving ecosystem with lots of 3rd party libraries and documentation.

If you literally don't know shit about computers or programming, starting with C++ is going to be hard. OK maybe you can follow a step-by-step tutorial and figure out how to get set up with a compiler, but are you really going to understand any of it? Are you going to understand the error messages you get when you fuck up? Will you understand the difference between compiler errors and linker errors? C++ syntax is not particularly friendly and the language has tons of libraries and coding paradigms that people use.

So in most cases, if someone has never done programming before starting with Python allows focus on teaching the basic principles like the ordered execution of statements, flow control, branching, and abstraction without getting bogged down in all the technical details of compilation and byzantine syntax rules. Python's complete syntax can be described by a clear, straightforward Context-Free Grammar and the development cycle is as simple as you can get.

The classic way to learn C is to read K&R.
Personally I recommend also reading C: A Reference Manual by Harbison and Steele.
A project like building an emulator is going to involve some serious research and coding. You would probably need a professional help or a really good book/guide to follow in order to do that as a first project. Maybe a simpler plan would be to aim for writing a program to modify the save states in a game for an emulator you already use. C should be pretty good at that, as save states are just binary files.

>started with Java
>it was easy
>Python felt like Java with training wheels

>friend started with Python
>says it was easy
>says Java is impossible

Attached: 1438802569171.png (250x418, 121K)

Use this.

Attached: g_programming_roll.png (1920x1080, 307K)

>python programs don't need to be compiled.

They also have shit performance compared to compiled C#, especially natively compiled.

>tfw learned Java and C++ simultaneously with no prior coding experience
At one point my head felt like it was going to explode, but after that everything else was a cakewalk.

Start with JS, it's so bad you're forced to learn all programman concepts.

Attached: IMG_20190716_072518.jpg (266x222, 16K)

>That'll give you as close to zero as you can get as a programmer

Using core-affine threads and putting input handling on a core different from output rendering is going to make a much more substantial difference towards input lag than any kind of locking to framerate.

use 1.4

Attached: 1554340750349.png (1920x1080, 302K)

*Modern* JS programming practices are unironically quite *good*, actually.

lol no
that input still needs to be processed in a serial process
the lowest latency, most predictable game is input -> process -> render repeat on a single thread

Let's try

Your friend probably would have had a hard time with Java either way.
Neither language is particularly difficult the real challenge is moving down to C and C++ or becoming a productive polyglot that can handle anything.

t. started with BASIC on the Tandy CoCo in 1985

never claimed otherwise. You don't always need performance especially when you're teaching basic concepts like writing loops and defining functions.

The netcode isnt easy too. End up having to fucking sync everything because network traffic is too high to have a server simulation only game with 300 dudes running around.
Which means dealing with lockstep and fixed point math which unreal and unity do not do out of the box.

doing lockstep simulation is easier than a tradtional online game that involves all sorts of lag prediction

>have to sit in on interview for potential candidate
>asked to do fizzbuzz
>has no idea where to start
>ask her what type of loop she thinks would work best
>"loop?"
>look at her resume
>6 years as software engineer with DoD contractor

Attached: 1502137578525.png (320x528, 307K)

What books/source did you learn them from?

The books I used are no longer in print. You can probably find used copies on Amazon but they're really outdated, just look at current top rated books and pirate them instead. If they're good pay for them as reference manuals.

>recruiting programmers with database skills
>HR sends us a woman
>resume looks promising, claims to have years of deep SQL knowledge
>even has some M$ Database Admin certificate
>give her our standard test with easy stuff like select with basic join
>she sits there 15 minutes staring at the questions
>gives back blank page
>"sorry i forgot syntax"

Attached: woman_programmer.jpg (654x867, 153K)

I shit you not we had 15 applicants during a 2-day interview spree who couldn't do fizzbuzz. These were recent 4 year CS graduates with 3.5+ GPAs. This generation is fucked.

What is fizzbuzz?

Attached: 1549572866804.jpg (960x960, 108K)

A halting problem game

Attached: 1542131781106.jpg (1272x863, 603K)

YO DONNIE I JUST SHIT ON THE COUCH AND ATE GARBAGE HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES??

From the memory: count from 1 to 100. Every number dividable by 3 prints 'fizz', by 5 'buzz', with both 'fizzbuzz' and if none apply just print the number.

a retard filter "challenge" that asks you to know about modulo operand and loops, it's piss easy yet the industry is filled with people who don't know how to resolve it

Any book you recommend?

to be fair modulus is a difficult concept to grasp

Nigger what? Isn't that just like

n = 1
while ( n

divisible*

That is pretty much standard nowadays. They know nothing and want salary like senior manager.
Although we had a guy recently that aced fizzbuzz in overly complicated way to show off, and was pretty knowledgeable about everything we asked. We would hire him if not the fact that he came to the interview in stained dirty t-shirt and stank of rotten meat.

It's just a remainder. We all learn it in grade school then never touch it again.
Legit though, I had to get used to using remainders again. Not sure if this means I'm a brainlet.

no
no it’s not

Yes, and you failed because you forgot to n++.

kek, some people think they can lie through life. should have been politicians instead

Attached: I6wNrca.png (636x442, 153K)

Why do men program so complicated and uninformative?

Attached: programming.jpg (869x1776, 226K)

I was just doing it quickly on Yea Forums while playing a game on the other monitor I swear

had a similar experience with a guy who had 20 years of experience, like 10 of which were with some TV or DVD player company making the menus and shit for the player

What actually goes down at most of these basic programming jobs if being able to do that is the lowbar? Is it just interns fixing basic code or something? Because having them write shit from the ground up seems like a bigger task

sure, if you're 5
Even if you don't know what it does you could still resolve the fizzbuzz problem with the other operands

> the lowest latency, most predictable game is input -> process -> render repeat on a single thread

Wrong.

Lowest latency is doing input processing and game logic for N+1 frame while rendering logic is running for N+0 frame in parallel, with an option to back out on the currently rendering frame if it is taking too long and temporarily lowered frame rate is necessary to achieve better frame pacing and consistent low feedback latency.

in my past experience of 2 years working with people employed by the DoD, there are 8 people on a project, 4 of them are supposed to do real work, and 1 person actually does all the work

> declare a constant for a magic number
> use it only once
by the way carmack didn’t invent FISR some guy at intel did

Potato - potato

Attached: boy-wearing-dunce-cap-in-corner-B1FAKH.jpg (866x1390, 92K)

Java version:

for(int i = 1; i

Not the same case at all, Pablo. Sit down and be humble.

Anyone unironically believing the right is better should unironically remove themselves from the software developer gene-pool. Immediately.

>with an option to back out on the currently rendering frame if it is taking too long and temporarily lowered frame rate is necessary to achieve better frame pacing and consistent low feedback latency.
did you miss the part where I said "predictable"?
Any adaptative framerate system is unpredictable and most introduce latency

Attached: 2Q==.jpg (183x275, 6K)

>writes a 300 line if-else chain for each number of 1 through 100

Attached: 1551407468700.png (512x512, 531K)

I don't know about hardest but I'm working on an idea that's really fucking me up. Things like FPS control and really basic enemies are shit I already know how to do, but moving a quadruped or some kind of long bodied creature and making it turn/circle around something believably is something where I don't even know where to begin.

Superior LINQ oneliner version coming through, step aside pajeet:

Enumerable.Range(1, 100).Select(n => (n % 3 == 0 && n % 5 != 0) ? "Fizz" : (n % 3 != 0 && n % 5 == 0) ? "Buzz" : (n % 3 == 0 && n % 5 == 0) ? "FizzBuzz" : n.ToString()).ToList().ForEach(Console.WriteLine);

Unreal will just do all those things for you automatically

You just hate womyn because they ignored you in school, you nerds

Attached: 1466866941992.png (1357x1281, 1.49M)

Unironically kill yourself. Nobody wants to sift through that crap.

My favorite kind of thread.

Attached: girls_who_code.png (652x669, 240K)

failed for poor memory usage

LMAO not my fault you're a brainlet.

Attached: you.jpg (645x729, 57K)

One thing you can do is offset it to the animator. So you have an animation state machine, and have transitional animations like
>forward to right
>forward to left
Or however complex you think your state machine needs to be to be satisfied. A lot of game engines have a visual state machine out of the box, but I think keeping it simple works best. Depending on the scenario, sometimes setting up the states through code makes more sense than handling it visually entirely.

Basically just have more animation. Maybe alter its turn radius to make it more believable than *jeer right*, so it slows down when it turns.

Attached: changing_the_face_of_coding.jpg (1400x814, 446K)

linq is too slow tho. Only use it when it is apparent what the use is and performance doesnt matter.

real java version:

for(int i =1;i

>linq is too slow tho
It's not 2010 anymore.
>and performance doesnt matter.
Well I write enterprise software for a living so...

t. H1B poo-in-loo

Why is c++ the most chosen language for gaming?

you don’t need to check for divisibility by 15, pajeets

>Yea Forums has better programming thread than /g/
Color me surprised.

Attached: dpt.png (715x600, 446K)

Even more superior JS one-liner:

[...Array(101).keys()]
.slice(1)
.map(n => `${n % 3 ? '' : 'fizz'}${n % 5 ? '' : 'buzz'}` || `${n}`)
.forEach(n => console.log(n));

directX/openGL calls, but c++ isn't, most people use whatever language their engine is using (and since most video games uses Unity it's C#)

I think he meant most video games that people play and enjoy

... as in:
this one you can actually _read_ without mangling your brain

it's the only language that gives you power and performance
every other language only gives you one or the other

Say what you want but enterprise programming is comfy job. High as fuck pay, no overtime, plenty of benefits. I used to be programmer at game dev company and pay was low, crunch was soul-crushing and stressful, and I actually had to work with very complicated stuff which was not worth it in such environment. Now I just make financial applications for dumb roasties at accounting and can work from home 2 days a week which is pretty much free day for me.

It's more efficient and saves memory. Get dabbed on.

Imo If they really want to get women and others into STEM/Programming, they should promote math more (in high school). A solid math foundation will help learning programming and with CS (as it basically is part of math itself). Promoting programming without rigour directly will lead to hackjobs more likely.

Having math education be more application OR philosophically oriented, may spark some imagination and inspiration for the youngsters out there. For instance why using derivatives of functions can be used to find the global optimum of a function instead of just deriving a given function all the time. Or learning why the exact differentiation formula with limits makes f(x) = x^2 -> f'(x) = 2x. Just small things like that without copying physics curriculum. On the philosophical side, some set theory with infinities, and some first order logic would be interesting.

>they should promote math more (in high school).
pretty sure you can take math classes in high school
math will never be "fun", and women will never like technical subjects

Geeez user, math is, like, HARD, you know? Nerd....

Attached: stem.jpg (1100x654, 185K)

who makes this crap

incels

...

questionable, you're adding a third modulo operation that only speeds up the loop 7% of the time and slows it down the other 93%

>call function max(20, 20)
>result is 5

Attached: 1446991589413.jpg (998x974, 108K)

now solve for fizz-buzz-bazz.
That is, where:
- fizz is printed at multiples of 3,
- buzz at multiples of 5,
- bazz at multiples 7,
- fizzbuzz at 3 & 5,
- fizzbazz at 3 & 7,
- buzzbazz at 5 & 7, and
- fizzbuzzbazz at 3 & 5 & 7.

Done with that?
Good! Fizz buzz bazz barf for 11 please.

TL;DR
If that's your chosen solution, you don't understand combinatorical explosion. Exercise failed. Door is to your left. Next.

>if (a > b && b < a)

Attached: women_engineering.jpg (404x706, 43K)

I'm doing it

Wrong, 3 will print fizz3, 15 will print fizzbuzzfizzbuzz

Yeah I forgot to do else ifs because

Exactly. Should be using if - else if - else ... chains.

Though actually it shouldn't be written the discriminate cases at all like that. Or you run into combinatorial explosion as per

MMO

Do the networking with C sockets from scratch

Good luck not killing yourself in a week

I always thought stealth games would be really challenging to program. Mainly because they are extremely hard to balance properly. Most stealth games have super abuseable AI. They tend to have really bullshit situations where you get sported in the dumbest situations. On the flipside you have situations where you feel like you easily be visible and seen by like 10 people but none of them have. I honestly don't think anyone ever has made a proper believable stealth game before. A game like that would need insanely deep AI and stealth mechanics.

Show us your implementation mr. expert.

I sometimes help with technical job interviews. If your FizzBuzz does not look like this in my interview you're immediately out.

Here, github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition

Attached: 1543845858874.png (967x459, 46K)

>Most stealth games have super abuseable AI.
thats the point
a realistic stealth game would be frustrating as shit

Even if you did not consider the processing overhead, you can have such a thing as too good pathfinding. Finding the right balance of necessary microing and intuitiveness creates opportunities for players to become better at the game.

Ok I know what you want, I just wanted to shrink it for the lulz

String shit;
for(int i =1; i

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was the most realistic stealth game ever made and it was the most fun. Coincidence? I think not nigger.

Attached: 1555170557884.png (309x301, 115K)

user you don’t need the array keys bullshit, it will never be as good as python’s range()

for(let i=0;++i

I don't think it's possible. Realistically you're a security guard and you catch someone sneaking around your building, you're not going to stop looking for them after 90 seconds and return to your patrol. You're going to call the police and spend the next 2-4 hours sweeping the entire building. And even once you return to your patrol, you're going to be like 10x as likely to search every corner because you know you saw someone.

But having to sit around for that long in a vent or whatever would be really boring.

Things I'm referencing is getting seen by a guard, running and hiding behind something. Guard says some shit like "Must have been a rat". You can repeat this an infinite amount of times on the same guard. He'll fully see you every time, and just carry on like nothing, even if he saw you armed with weapons. I feel like he would call for reinforcements and they would be on edge and perhaps even searching for you. Perhaps even idle chatter after that about seeing some guy snooping around.

In C

int i;
for (i=0; i=

Still garbage. Guess it's time to go back to New Delhi, Pashtul.

Attached: ive-seen-some-shit-14843338.png (500x557, 145K)

What actually is all this random shit padding it

no stealth game approaches realistic

exactly