Original is beloved

- Grunty doesn't rhyme.
- The instrument metaphor is broken since there's no metaphor for Banjo-Kazoie using musical notes to break the magical barriers.
- The notes are used to learn new tricks, but that kind of defeat the metaphor of using notes to advance in the game.
- Locking the game progression by using moves, instead a challange, like collecting notes, makes collecting notes and finding Janjar annoying, because you may need to come back to him, and by them you may have forgotten where he was.
- There's no challenge in collecting notes on stages since the game saves it.
- The enemies will always spawn back after being defeated, that's different on Kazooie, where they's stay dead.
- The landmarks are bad.
- Too much backtracking.
- Too much walking, Banjo and Kazooie should've been at least 20% faster.
- Annoying FPS stages.
- Mumbo Jumbo parts are a chore and are unecessary. Or at least he should have an ability that would let you place flying pads everywhere for a quantity of mumbo tokens.
- The Glowbo collecting is pointless.
- It's missing two missing eggs surprise. (The Ice Key was supposed to be used on DK64, so they used on the chest so you could get Dragon Kazooie).
- Cloud Cuckoland is bad designed and feels it's made of leftovers.
- It's missing the 9th stage.

It's not a bad game, but it tried to be too big for its own good, so it's lacking polish and is a little bit unfinished.

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I knew it existed, but my parents were too poor to afford/rent it. Played it on an emulator years later, didn't vibe with me much.

>Knack 2 bah bee XD

I fucking hate Dunkey and his unfunny memes. It's not funny, it's not clever, it's just words that the fanbase clap and repeat like spastic echoing monkeys. Now I get to see morons copy paste his shitty opinions as if it's gospel all the fucking time. But it's okay cause the funny man said it OMG LAWL XD

The game was actually fucking amazing aside from how empty the worlds could be at times, it was just a complete and utter spit in the face for people craving a new 3D collectathon platformer which had the original banjo charm

BIG LEVEL MAKE GRUG BRAIN HURT
GRUG NO LIKE PUZZLE
GRUG WANT FIND JIGGY SITTING ON GROUND
TERRYDACTYLAND APPROPRIATE GRUG CULTURE

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I played Nuts & Bolts the day it came out and I still credit it as the game that made me stop pre-ordering games blind based on franchize and hype.
Even removing the mitigating circumstances of it not being the game I wanted, after a long wait, I still just simply didn't enjoy more than a few hours of dicking about

tooie is better

I bet you think Doom 2 is better than Doom 1 if you think Tooie is better than Kazooie.

Tooie was an absolute gem the first time around
it's just such a boring fucking slog to play through again. Kazooie doesn't overstay it's welcome

Never played Doom 2, is the level design enhanced, playtime expanded, movement faster and more fluid, music better, and core gameplay expanded upon in a meaningful way from the first game like Tooie is?

based

new bad old good

Backtracking through multiple levels with atrocious load times

Banji-Tooie multiplayer FPS was kino

As good as Perfect Dark or 007

Never played these games as a kid, and I'm going through them now. Tooie is an extremely ambitious game, and I am not that far into it, but already I think it's probably the worse of the two. Kazooie is a lot less polished, but it has more soul. Tooie feels less like a sequel that came out two years later, and more like a really good reboot from 15 years later. Has all of the things which made the game fun at its core but it lacks the specific details and gives off a vibe of not being the same thing.

It had next to zero marketing so most people didn't even know it existed. It was also a bit too self-aware and I don't think the level design was as good

>Banji-Tooie multiplayer FPS was kino
yis
>As good as Perfect Dark or 007
ni

Many were quick to judge Bolts and Nuts because it wasn't what they were expecting out of a Banjo game, whose previous games were collectathons.
Yeah it's a fun game, (buzzword opinion inbound) but not a fun Banjo game. As for the second game, I tried to like it but it felt like it took the collectable thing even further than the first game. Maybe it was because I got Rare Replay and marathoned BK1 and went right into BK2, but I couldn't bear the obnoxious size of the worlds and how everything felt like it was meant to be picked up later, instead of right now with the new things you learned in this world.
Maybe I would've liked it if I played it as a kid like I did with BK1, but eh.

name one eceleb from back in 2008 that isn’t some IGN tier review website

i got the secret ending, got hyped but also thought it was a joke
then i saw it in the upcoming section of nintendo power and then it fucking came out and i got it as soon as i was able

oo babee

>He fell for the soul meme
Re tard

As a kid the atmosphere of the second game almost felt like a horror game in some places, people were prob just scared

yes

Because Dunkey said iy

I usually call soul vs soulless fags retards but idk how else to describe it. Tooie is not soulless, but Kazooie is definitely more soulful. The UI in Kazooie is oozing with personality, every time you get a Jiggy it does a little animation, every section of Grunty's Lair leaves a distinct impression in your mind, etc. Tooie still knocks it out of the park with passion in the level design and stuff but idk. Also, I really dislike that the notes come in packs instead of by themselves

nah you can instead succ my dick faggot

you sound like a faggot

Tooie has a worse Banjo voice, I wish you could fix that.

How the fuck can you even form such a wrong opinion? Every character has better voices in Tooie.

i prefer high pitched banjo

>The enemies will always spawn back after being defeated, that's different on Kazooie, where they's stay dead.

I always thought the levels felt too empty in BK after you killed all the enemies. It might have been a hardware limitation thing too.

>Annoying FPS stages

Literally the best part of the game

>Cloud Cuckooland

100% agreed. Fuck that level.

I like these comics, whos the artist.

>There's no challenge in collecting notes on stages since the game saves it.
What? Having to collect the notes in one go was the biggest complaint everyone had with the n64 version of BK. There's a reason why it was changed in rereleases.

I mostly agree with everything else.

twitter.com/HgMorbi/status/1051393189456699392

>HUH HAAAWWWW

>go through game 1 to save Tootie
>she is missing in Tooier
fuck off

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> Banjo-Tooie is hated
You got a source on that?
> Nuts and Bolts is good and you're all retards for taking Jontron's word that it's bad
Jontron explicitly said that the main issue with it was that it wasn't banjo. It's a decent game, just not a banjo game
> Rare wasn't planning on making banjo-threeie and in fact wanted to make banjo kazooie nuts and bolts
Nigger they literally said at the end of banjo-tooie that there would be a banjo-threeie, get some reading comprehension

what was the first person shooter sequence a refining of? Seemed like an awkward gimmick they tossed in for variety sake.

>GUYSSSSSS STEEEEEEEEEEEVE

Lol at the scrubs who didn't know about that. Pretty sure you need that to beat the game too.

Except that's literally what's happening in this very thread?
The animosity towards Tooie is manufactured.

Or it’s banjo fans having a discussion, Stevefags aren’t out to get you

Tooie feels like it goes out of its way to waste as much of the player's time as possible

the new moves were cool though

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It was okay, but they ruined the honeycombs.

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>animosity
look, I just think it's not a very good game. The first Banjo isn't an amazing platformer but for what it does it's fun, has a good sense of humor, pretty levels that are a joy to explore, nice music and a good well rounded length. Tooie failed to get my attention for long, from the word go the experience is scattershot with levels that are too big for their own good, bloated with too many gimmicks, and didn't refine what the original did well enough. I dropped it early on, it's just not fun.

>- Cloud Cuckoland is bad designed and feels it's made of leftovers.
because it was

soul removed

way too much useless space, too much gated shit

>>sequel is everything refined from the original and overall superior
Haha retard

The right one looks better but the left one has way more soul.

Thanks user

>Banjo gets confirmed
>suddenly the “Banjo is hated by everyone” meme starts being shoved in a last desperate attempt to kill hype
>refusteves think people aren’t going to notice
>”if you get called out just tell them they’re paranoid and keep doing it XD”
It’s amazing that they still have the gall to play dumb after almost a year.

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>- The instrument metaphor is broken since there's no metaphor for Banjo-Kazoie using musical notes to break the magical barriers.
>- The notes are used to learn new tricks, but that kind of defeat the metaphor of using notes to advance in the game.
Autism
>- There's no challenge in collecting notes on stages since the game saves it.
Saving it is such a fucking plus that they do it on every rerelease of the original you numbnuts
>- Annoying FPS stages.
They were the best part of the game
Tooie is a colossally shit game but not for these reasons

It's a pretty different game honestly, although some of the levels are pretty bad in how big they are. Terrydactyland is probably the best example of being way too big for it's own good.

I didn't think Banjo-Tooie was hated. Is it? I haven't played Tooie for a long time, but the only main issue I had with Banjo-Tooie was that it overstays its welcome. It has so much game that you wear yourself out trying to progress, and in order to make people stick around and enjoy all of it they block off progression many times to make you play it. Banjo Kazooie has such nice pacing (for the most part, Rusty Bucket Bay and Click-Clock Wood definitely slow things down), it's a treat to play through.

Again, I haven't played Tooie in a long time so it's not as vivid in my mind, but I'd describe it as too much of a good thing in almost all of its aspects. It had better graphics, which resulted in some of the collectibles not looking as nice (honeycombs in particular), it had more moves which results in the DK 64 problem of having too many collectibles. It had more of an overworld, which makes it a pain to traverse through. Its worlds are bigger with more in them, which sometimes makes it a chore to progress through.

All in all, I'd consider Tooie to be a side-grade to Kazooie. It's a good game in its own right, but it's not exactly the same formula as Kazooie.

Tooie makes some gains in some areas but it drops the ball pretty hard in others. I love Tooie's aesthetics more than Kazooie's, for example, and I also prefer its level themes, and movement is a bit more fluid, but the actual level design itself is somewhat unappealing when the immediate fun of exploring drains away. There's too much bloat, too many minigames, too much wasted time. Banjo is no Mario, but exploring and moving around are still the highlight of the games, and that fact Tooie doubled down on everything *but* that is frustrating.

I replayed Tooie a few weeks ago and had a good time (I hadn't played through it in years), but I can't see myself wanting to replay it anytime soon. Kazooie on the other hand I replay relatively often.

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I actually am replaying them right now and I Kazooie has some pretty bad levels. Specifically the 2 water ones. Makes me not want to replay them.

Clanker's Cavern is worse than anything in Tooie

Agreed. Also I like how the worlds are much more connected in Tooie compared to kazooie where you can finish them all on your first visit.

What was their problem?

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>everything refined
Sorry but no, it's expanded and has a ton of new content, but it's the opposite of refined, the game is mostly rough compared to the smoothness of the first one.

This.

I, for one, played BK and it was shit. The swimming controls are garbage

Clanker's Cavern isn't great, and Bubblegloop Swamp is maybe my least favorite level between both games, but otherwise I think Kazooie's levels are head and shoulders above Tooie's.

The only levels that I enjoyed were the beach and the seasons level due to the cool gimmick. Everything else was just too easy and felt too small.

>he doesn't know

I thought swimming faster was in Tooie?

I remember the first time being annoyed with Tooie is when the first level required you to backtrack to complete it. Then the levels after that just got more confusing and boring as they went. I tried the game 3 times so far and everytime I play it I just get sick of not being able to complete anything and lose interest.

for some reason retards think the same thing of jet set radio future compared to the original
only thing jsr had that jsrf didn't is difficulty. cope harder

Music was better in 1 though.

Tooie is amazing on a first playthrough, it keeps the charm and detail of the original but also makes you work extra hard for each and every jiggy which in turn makes them feel much more rewarding. The levels are complex and require some actual spatial awareness, Grunty Industries being the prime example of this. However, they went a bit overboard with the backtracking, and as a result subsequent playthroughs a lot less fun and feel more like a chore. On top of that, many people don't like the bigger levels and prefer Kazooie's tighter design. Lastly, getting new abilities all the way up to the last level is overkill and honestly a bad design choice. All in all, it's a great but flawed game, and it's strengths are not that popular with a lot of fans of the first game.

Because big levels makes retards screech. The original game was pretty good in keeping everything short but fun while Tooie focused on making it huge but connected

It's still fun, i loved Tooie. There's a lot of shit you can do that makes it fun

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The problem with Nuts and Bolts is the same as it is with Crash of the Titans and Mind Over Mutants from the Crash Bandicoot series. Also, Jak II and III to lesser extent.

Fine, unique games with satisfying gameplay... That are wearing the skin of your favourite characters. And not representing what you loved about the original games at all. Imagine if the next Mario game was literally GTA V or something but all the assets replaced with Mario assets. That's what these games are.
Some guy had a good idea for a game but they didn't have any place to start from, so they took an established franchise and changed it to their liking.
In the end, the fans of the original are bound to hate it. It's not what they wanted, it's different. And potential new fans? They will never find the game, because you chose to hide it in the shadow of whatever franchise you're ruining. All in all, if you want to make a new game, fucking do it. Don't make it on the expense of something that already exists.

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Mario is already super experimental, so it wouldn’t shock anyone.

It’d be more like, what if Zelda went from an adventure with hand crafted dungeons to a Ubisoft Open Wo-

Oohhhhhhhhhh:

>E-Celeb
The only people that think this are too young to remember when N&B was teased and released.

It was a gem the first time around because after 1 you were excited to play it, it's always been a fucking slog.

>Mario is already super experimental, so it wouldn’t shock anyone.
It's not that experimental. Yet.
>It’d be more like, what if Zelda went from an adventure with hand crafted dungeons to a Ubisoft Open Wo-
That's pretty much exactly why there is a very vocal group that hates BotW. It's not a Zelda game by any stretch of imagination, so fans of the previous games feel alienated. It's still a very good game. IF you like Open World games.

I'm still furious that Sabreman Stampede never released.
Fun fact: Captain Blubber would have been in it.

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They are a bit, but the controls are mostly the same.
Tooie has an entire world that's 90% underwater.
Including a boss fight in underwater first person mode shooting eggs at precise weak spots.

it's supposed to be a nod to goldeneye. IIRC even one of the minigames has the same layout as one of the goldeneye maps

your best point is about the movement speed. the levels are several times the size of BK's but you still move at the same speed

>b-but Rare wanted to make it!
Doesn't make it a good game

click clock woods was my favourite BK level. loved the atmosphere and the gimick

Banjo tooie is soulless fucking trash, take off your nostalgia glasses
Rare went to shit for a reason
DK64 is also hot garbage

call it the starfox adventures effect

Oh fuck, completely forgot about that. And people wonder why their favourite franchises disappeared. The same thing happened to them all!

Not with N&B, but that's absolutely the case for Tooie. I have never heard anyone say Tooie was a bad game until Dunkey started spouting his shit opinions everywhere. The only difference between him and a game journo is that he has a fanbase.

Rare made a demo of Banjo Threeie and when they played it for the execs, they had no reaction to it. The developers got real sad and changed everything

>Imagine if the next Mario game was literally GTA V or something but all the assets replaced with Mario assets.
You act as if Mario is not a brand that can do whatever the fuck he wants.

>It's not that experimental. Yet.
U fucking wot, m8? It's the most experimental ip out there next to Kirby.

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>its hated
Mmm... not true. It's loved, it's just a much bigger game than Kazooie, with tons of backtracking and puzzle solving to boot. Tooie is an example of biting off more than one can chew, the content is there, but the average person who enjoys 3D platformers would rather want quick bursts of fun exploring unique worlds opposed to one connected world that's a bit of a grind to travel when in Kazooie everything was in semi-linear paths. I love Tooie, but it's a SLOW game, but a good one!
Not even that. It was an average game with the Banjo named slapped on it for the sake of selling copies, despite having nothing to do with Banjo's lore/gameplay at all, with an odd artstyle that made fun of the fans of the series calling the previous entries childish and stupid... Not a good idea to insult the fanbase if you ask me...

Just because Rare wanted to make a different Banjo game, doesn't mean it would be a GOOD Banjo game. Plus that artstyle is terrible and is unappealing to the eyes (except the lighting.) How the fuck did Nintendo get it so right in Smash?

Tooie being a mess or at least inferior to Kazooie has always been a fairly common opinion. The idea the game is total trash or whatever less so, but that's just the internet being the internet.

Personally, I liked Tooie better than Kazooie, the FPS sections and the multiplayer alone have created many fond memories.

I liked Tooie more but I get why it can be over whelming for some people. However without an expiation pack the frame rate makes it unplayable

his forced memes are always terrible and his humor is kinda corny, but he can be surprisingly funny sometimes. I've never been convinced by any of his arguments in his reviews, I just tend to agree with him most of the time cause we have more or less the same taste in video games. I bet most of his fans are just parroting his thoughts but many are not

>sequel is a great follow up to the original/previous game(s)
>previous game(s) are still better in quality
>therefore the sequel is trashed on and considered irredeemable garbage
why