I already played TTYD. Did this game do anything better that makes it still worth playing?

Chapters 5, 6, and 7 were all bad with one redeeming feature.

Lavalava: Kolorado
Flower Fields: Lakilester
Shiver City: Penguin Murder Mystery

I think they’re dead even. I liked the worlds in TTYD better. First two are better than anything else tho
>inb4 Mario and Luigi is a direct replacement for paper Mario fags shit up the thread

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64 is a more consistent experience that can be returned to constantly without feeling worse each time with the only exception being the prologue. TTYD gets worse each time you play it due to chapters and parts that don't add anything on subsequent playthroughs. Glitzville, or Excess Express, the General White quest, I could go on but you get it. 64 has none of that.

64 is a better game in general. It's well worth playing through it.

I'm actually replaying TTYD right now and I'm starting to think that N64 PM is a bit better. The backtracking in some of the TTYD areas is a bit ridiculous. Still a great cast of characters and decent art style in most places. Both are solid 8-9/10 games.

TTYD improved a lot on the combat but I still think 64 is the best game overral

Flower Fields and Shiver City were the best levels in the game by far you plebian

Flower Fields is fucking garbage all the way through, and Shiver City is bland as hell after the murder mystery.

Glitz Pit is the best. They got them hot dogs

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Glitz Pit is fantastic. They set up all those mysteries in the beginning that gradually get solved as you climb the ranks. Plus, the concept of Mario essentially becoming a gladiator is awesome.

saved, thanks for the literal crotch goblin

the art and music are better.

In general the animations are better, and there's no backtracking. But the battle system is worse, and the story is more "bland".

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It's TTYD but more consistent in quality.
You don't get the heights that TTYD soars to, but you also don't get any annoying areas or mechanics. It's much more atmospheric and with a less complicated battle system.

It doesn't sound like you want to play it.
Play it if you want, don't if you don't. Why do you need validation from strangers before even trying it out?

It has soul, not even memeing you. This game shits all over TTYD in every aspect that doesn't involve battling.

Yeah, it was literally better in every single way

>fail to guard against boss attack with your partner
>partner loses 3 turns
>you get FUCKED

also, Bow's avoidance is waaaay OP compared to Vivian's. Bow's has far less action penalties, so it's viable to just spam it regardless of situation. they're both grade-A waifus ofc

in general though, PM64 seems a bit more arcade-y and unpolished compared to TTYD. And starting from square -1 is kind of a chore. You might as well try it out though, gets solid by around the Teenage Mutant Ninja Koopa's stronghold.

Shit's like a 5Mb download anyway. might as well try it.

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>hating on Shiver City and the Ice Fortress, literally the best area in the game

consider suicide

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I think they’re about on par for different reasons. They excel at different things.

Be forewarned you have to finish the prologue before you can use action commands.

Well it has actual level design instead of 8 linear areas you just walk through 10 times each for one.

Much better level design, music and maybe even art direction.

What are some enemies you'd like to see as partners?

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pokeys when will we get them in mario maker at least?

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Hammer Bros
Magi Koopas
Chain Chomps

Shy Guy, Dry Bones, Pokey, Chain Chomp, Lil Oink, that sun thing from Mario 3, pretty much anything Mario 2 hasn’t been done. Pianta or whatever from sunshine. I guess odyssey added a bunch of species as well

it's easy to just name any species you want, but how would overworld puzzles around them work?
if you can't figure it out it is a bad partner

TTYD improves upon the mechanics of the first game but falls short of the story of the story of 64. I only really feel "dread" knowing I'll have to replay flower fields while most of TTYD's chapters are not so good the next time through. A few of TTYD's chapters would be more interesting if there were some sequence breaks you could make on a NG+ run. Such as: skipping all of General White, solving the train mystery right away (giving a harder boss fight or something), calling out Doopliss the first time (giving a harder boss fight or something), solving the glitz-pit mystery right away or at least early. I think another NG+ feature could be that when the Shadow Queen asks you to side with her, you actually can and you get a secret boss fight where you fight Bowser again or Luigi leading your partners give a bad end conclusion to TTYD.

Super-guarding and partner HP trivialized an already easy game but people somehow claim that TTYD has "objectively better combat".

I honestly wish overworld puzzles would go away. All this fake roadblock shit sucks: pokemon HMs, special character moves in Paper Mario, digimon story, xenoblade etc I can live without

fucking THIS

i couldnt get a supergaurd once in my entire playthrough

You're an embarrassment.

There are far more options for a larger number of creative builds, and action commands are a lot more varied. That matters a ton.

Even with partner hp and superguarding, ttyd is generally harder than 64 though neither are actually tough. With ttyd I at least knew a few people who struggled a bit against shadow queen, plus there’s the pit.

Also isn’t superguard like a two frame window or something? I got really good at it but that’s not something most players will get close to mastering.

its a 3 frame window

>beat both PM and TYYD as a kid without ever guarding other than the time the game makes you

I felt like these games were hard.

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Which means you must really suck. Play some rhythm games until you're rehabilitated up to a normal level of timing.

aren't there also some attacks that can't be super guarded? I recall the final boss and the 100 pit boss both having attacks like this.

i was top 1000 in osu

Then you should have literally no problem hitting a window that's always the exact same for a given attack.

not him but 3/60th is not easy. I can do it somewhat consistently with smaller enemies but most of the time it's not even worth it

Is TTYD worth playing? I beat the first chapter with Hooktail or whatever but there is just so damn much talking, or reading rather. I know it's an RPG but christ. The ratio of exposition to actual gameplay is really off. Still not as bad as SPM but still.

it does everything except the combat better

>3/60th is not easy
maybe not in a fighting game, but enemy attacks are extremely telegraphed in this game

It's more of the same. Get the master quest mod to make it worth playing. It adds new content and rebalances things to make it interesting.

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It still has a lot of aspects of vanilla Mario, but doesn't loose the individuality of paper Mario unlike sticker star, and I guess the bottom line is that it's still a fucking stellar game so I'd say there is still a lot of value in playing it

It still holds a lot of the charm from vanilla Mario while not loosing it's individuality like Sticker Star, and I guess the bottom line is that it's still a stellar fucking game and is worth playing from time to time

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Crystal Palace was great you fag

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I know people will shit on me for using "muh soul" as an argument, but somehow TTYD is just less charming than 64, and I played TTYD first. TTYD feels like it leans a little too heavily on the humor and quirkiness with its themed areas, whereas 64 felt like the devs were just trying to make a really solid RPG set in the typical Mario world.

It’s pretty similar throughout the rest of the game.

Lots of people talk about backtracking but I think the ratio of reading/gameplay is the biggest make it or break it element of the game. I found most of it entertaining but if you really don’t like it the game just isn’t for you.

64's aesthetic was a story book with paper characters, TTYD is DUDE PAPER LMAO along with the rest of the games

I feel like 64 flows better but TTYD is written better, and the actual gameplay is much better as well.
They are both worth playing.

it's way better, combat is slightly better in TTYD but chapter, pacing, area, music, aesthetics, and lack of egrigious backtracking are better in the original

It has one of the best final dungeons of any videogame but ttyds is equally as good

>music is better in 64
Shit taste.

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it is, not even close

I think in terms of partners, chapters, and overall atmosphere PM64 is better than TTYD. However, gameplay and mechanics TTYD is much better.

I think TTYD’s areas are a lot more interesting conceptually than 1’s. TTYD definitely leans more on quirky humor than the first, and I can see that as either a plus or minus. I kinda like things sweet and straightforward now, but when I was younger I definitely liked the comedic bent more. TTYD also gets darker than 64 and absolutely has moments of gravitas as well, and while I’m not saying that’s inherently better, the whole game isn’t one big joke like it sort of seems to be at the start. Despite all the weirdness I’d even argue they take worldbuilding more seriously than the first.

I think the humor would hold up better if there weren’t so much more in a similar style to it today. I feel like it’s particular brand of humor is pretty common nowadays, but in 2004 there really wasn’t much else like it. It was really fresh at the time, now a lot of cartoons and webcomics and the like have a similar sort of vibe to them.

There’s a few gags but it’s nowhere near what the rest of the series does. The paper powers are honestly pretty innocuous.

If you’re gonna shitpost at least be accurate and insult it for looking like a tweened flash cartoon.

I didn't mean the paper shit with mario, I meant the aesthetics of the game itself. The areas are far more geometric and less "soft" than 64

I personally think it's superior, you might miss some of the extra additions in battling they added to the sequel but simply accepting the game as it instead of what you want it to be will let you have a blast.
The game just have overall better level design and pacing.

You’d best provide some evidence to back up your claims friend.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=4chT13EKL9I

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3E_7bXONu4Y

m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-53CI8HbvI

Okay that’s fair I guess. 64 has that nice soft smudgy crayon look to the textures.

Still a pretty far cry from DUDE PAPER though, it just looks like a typical cartoon.

if only the partners in 64 actually talked after you get them it would be amazing, they only talk once in the mayor's murder after they join you so it wasn't impossible to add those lines in

youtu.be/-YpOOW_ohpM
youtu.be/sWSeQ8uQGew
youtu.be/sZ1f6BEkn_g
youtu.be/r3mvyrZS36A

If ttyd is a 10 this is a 9.

The warp pipes are actually useful in the first game, so that's a huge plus. And Bow.

They have a few more lines than that. They say something the first time you get to the ghost house, and there are segments like jr troopa battles which they’ll sometimes comment on, crystal palace, or a few character specific ones like bombette blowing a hole in bowser’s castle.

As much as I like TTYD I will say the post office in 64 is a 10/10 top notch way to give party members tons of development in a way that’s optional and totally unobtrusive, while also being easily available and hard to miss. It’s actually really good ludonarrative design and the kind of thing more games should copy.

Not him but another thing I enjoyed in regards to subtle narrative additions; Luigi's secret diary hideout

Oh yeah that was great. I like how there’s even that secret scene where you can find him down there if you go back in chapter 3 after getting the super boots, but before finishing the chapter.

I did really like his stories in ttyd as well, and how he left out parts you’d only hear from his partners. I forget exactly what triggers it but he can even gets books published about his adventures that add a third version of the story. There’s also a book series in the game about that mouse dude who goes to dry dry desert to become an oil tycoon, though I dont know what the triggers are for that to appear either.

Though if we’re talking about ludonarrative stuff, using tattle in areas and on npcs is probably the real hidden star of the first two games.

One cool thing about 64 is that watt, now, and Hooper and goombarioa re all useful in different circumstance. In ttyd most of time you’d only use Vivian or maybe bob berg once you got them.

64 is a 10/10
TTYd is a 9.5/10

Oh shit you can actually find him down there? I need to do that next run, I've been debating a Priest Mario build focused on maxing Focus gains and spamming Spirit powers, also buffing defense and dodge power towards the end
And yeah I remember the mouse guy, you invest in his gofundme oil drilling plan and he actually does it and pays you back in full, I think he gives you x999 coins

Completely disagree. Both games are pretty stellar about partner balance and I’ve used one more than the others basically every playthrough.

Except ms mowz she fucking sucks

Mz Mowz is great and the only party member with an actual heal move, plus she can steal all those earthquake items before the enemy uses them

I think it’s 300 coins for every 100 you invest, with a cap of 999.

That sounds like a real interesting build.

Forgot about the heal move but you’ll usually have better options. Steal is good for the occasional badge but really barely any enemies ever have items.

The only paper mario game that matters

Everything after is nu-tendo selling that nin-stolgia

You know its true

Gameplay wise it's an upgrade, but the setting and atmosphere of 64 is a lot stronger imo.

TTYD just didn't have the same captivating feel 64 did in its worlds and presentation. The art felt more magical. TTYD's worlds pale in comparison, worlds 2 and 4 just weren't good at all.
I enjoyed the hell out of both games but depending on what you enjoy in vidya, 64 could very easily be the better one.

Yeah I noticed how absurdly gamebreaking Chill Out can many years ago against Huff n Puff and other bosses, plus Star Storm is hands down the best consistent damage source in the game

For all the issues 2 and 4 might have, I wouldn’t have considered the art one of them. Those are two my favorite areas in terms of aesthetics, I think the visual design in chapter 2 is especially good. Maybe it’s just the uniqueness of a monochrome forest.

post your chapter rankings
64: 7 > 2 > 6 > 5 = 8 > 3 > 4 > 1
TTYD: 6 > 3 > 8 > 7 > 4 > 1 > 5 > 2

i can provide explanations if needed

7 is my favorite in 64.

Not sure about ttyd, kinda surprised but 1 is pretty high up on the list now that I think about it.

Go ahead and explain, thread is pretty dead so why not.

>TTYD 2 ranked last
Smart man, Punis suck and fuck going all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon on a timer for a boss fight, that's Itagaki-tier bullshit

yeah, shiver city and crystal palace are the two best areas in 64 IMO so it's my favorite chapter in 64. chapter 6 is very underrated, the sun tower song is great, and if you go back, it changes to an upbeat melody which i thought was cool. 2 is also very good, i love levels that have that mystery element, like 7 and 2 where you have to get certain items to reveal a hidden shrine. the rest i feel are self explanatory, although i could see myself swapping chapters 3 and 8 depending on my mood. i thought it was so cool how you go back to peach's castle as mario after playing through it as peach for the whole game, and at the start of the game too. chapter 4 in 64 and 1 are just too samey looking and boring, they're not bad, but don't do a ton of things great other than their boss battles.
for TTYD, i prefer the story-heavy chapters like 3 and 6. i know 3 has a bunch of fights but it also has that mystry 'X' angle and the rawk hawk. typing this all out is tiring lol.

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>chapter 6 is very underrated, the sun tower song is great, and if you go back, it changes to an upbeat melody which i thought was cool
Not original guy but good taste user, chapter 6 is great once you figure out how to run it in under an hour. I actually did just that last Friday.

2/2
for TTYD chapter 8 is great but suffers from too many bullet bill sections and block puzzles. chapter 7 has all that backtracking, chapter 4 even more so (although it does have a much better boss fight than 7's), chapter 1 is boring and does nothing except have a quirky badge mechanic for the boss, chapter 5 is just a worse version of 64's chapter 5, and 2 is godawful with the punis.

i had a dream a few years ago that nintendo and IP systems teamed up to remaster paper mario 64 for the switch w/ online battle capabilites, so you could fight other people with your mario's and pick one partner to go into battle and only 3 items. god i wish this would happen on the switch, along with a TTYD-style bloody palace/pit of 100 trials mode.

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It's pretty comfy and solid in game mechanics and game play. My favorite thing tough has to be exploring the mushroom kingdom. The game really does the world building well and makes the world seemed lived in

You know, multiplayer Mario battles were something I wanted even back as a kid. Friend of mine said he thought it would be cool too.

All the possible builds would make it so interesting.

Its best chapters are better than the worst ones of ttyd.

Paper Mario is amazing for n64. But paper Mario ttyd was better but the original is still great.

Farming lol oinks for items seemed like more trouble than it was worth. Very expensive and random for just 1 item.

Isn’t that the only way to get true 100% conpletion? Are there actually enough ultra shrooms and jammin jellies for all recipes otherwise? No shops sell them.

TTYD has much more soul than 64 though

Unique != good
Each to his own I guess, but the white forest just looked drab and boring to me. I had to force myself to finish that chapter.
4 is ok, but jesus the backtracking. The worst aspect of the game by far and there's lots of it in almost each chapter.

Yeah sort-of. The vanilla atmosphere is nice and makes a good balance with the more adventurous tone of TTYD. Princess Peach is locked up her castle for instance so that's where you explore during her segments, and Bowser is the straight villain. It's nice to see Mario play with and send up it's own staples in a pure and direct fashion.

Partner HP is cool in TTYD but its implementation was imperfect. It leads to cycling partners around a lot to act as HP buffers, which adds depth but is of questionable balance the way it was executed. Plus it's really annoying when a partner bites it again and you lose a life shroom. Between this and partners having their own move system, their own level up system, and yet using Mario's FP rather than their own, I'd say that the TTYD system is great but there's a neat goodness to the simpler PM1 partners, which are just move sources to assist Mario.

You'll miss little neat quirks of the partner abilities, like throwing Bobbery, holding Kooper in place or getting Yoshi so early and having him essentially be Lakilester + Parakarry at once, but on the other hand Sushi's ability to dive is nice and adds some depth to the (shallow) water mechanics. You'll also miss the other paper powers in the few situations they're handy (as SPM demonstrated, these abilities could basically be partners), while Watt is a pretty poorly implemented gimmick, but it's nothing serious.

On the whole, PM and TTYD are exceedingly similar in gameplay content, so really it's more of the same. And that same is a great same, so it's more of great on the whole. TTYD has a better badge and level up system going for it, but you'll enjoy PM1 if you enjoyed TTYD.

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this soul shit is a meme and even if it were true, the opposite would apply.
IMO

>pic
I love the cactus waifu, the two clouds, the water princess and the backdrop. Colours are magnificent.
Fire boi and leafy look a little bland.
Giant bob-omb and book would look good with some work.
Not sure what's up with the ghost.
The note, cat boo, the koopatrol and the l'epic ishnail guy are wank and their creator needs some perspective.
The dragon, though cool, doesn't fit the artstyle and tone at all.
"Mirror of Infinity" is overly wanky. Easy to fix -> "The Endless Mirror". Writer needs to work on their craft.
Mario and Peach have creepy eyes holy samosa.
On the whole, Good Potential With Important Work Needed/10

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I sorta like the idea of the monochrome forest more than the way it actually looks, honestly.

I really like the design of the great boggly tree though. The white and black and constantly flowing upward water and the softly glowing golden leaves on the floor and the occasional ancient ruin looking thing and the wooden root pipes and feeling of navigating this ecosystem with the spiders and the small creatures and all the tattle dialogs that mention how crazy biology is

And there’s a secret shop with a secret cutscene that can only be activated by talking to a secret npc who only appears during this chapter

And then fucking evil super scientists attack and try to blow it up

Maybe it’s just cause Im a bit sleep deprived but conceptually all this stuff is fucking cool, and mostly quite pretty looking too imo

ANYTHING!*
*that we haven't already seen 48 times

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I think I answered this one before but regardless, off the top:

>PM 64

3
2 = 4
6 = 8
1 = 5 = 7
Prologue

>TTYD

3 = Pit of 100 Trials
5 = 6 = 8
1 = 2 = 7
Prologue = 4

Hard mode: rank the stages of Super Paper Mario

>pm64
I'd raise 7 one level
>TTYD
swap 5 for 7 and you're good

The rest are pretty accurate

>SPM
8
7 = 4 = 2
5 = 1 = 3
6
Postgame 6

>tfw can't rank SPM stages properly because my playthrough was ruined from doing the 200 floor trials early
I killed the final boss in 4 hits and one shot every boss that came before it, whoever redesigned the levelling system for SPM needs to be shot

I liked every bit of seven but as a chapter I felt it winded on a bit. I liked the murder mystery as a scenario but that "penguins hate u" music drags on a little. That strikes me as more on a level with 1 (straightforward but perfect) and 5 (a little vacuous in spots but a great series of scenarios throughtout) than with 6 (great atmosphere, I never minded the backtracking since each bit is short, rich areas with wonderful chunes) and 8 (rather linear but it's a great finale).

>swap 5 for 7 in TTYD
7 required tons of back tracking, and had three areas with very little going on in two of them. X-naut fortress was good but lacked enemy variety. 5 feels like a fantastically well-made microcosm of a stage, I liked its atmosphere and its constraints.

Levelling systems in general are pretty garbage and vanilla "exp from any enemy to eventually improve all major metrics" is unmitigatedly awful, since it fucks up the ability to play the game in flexible orderings without resorting to design crutches like "enemy scaling" and so on.

The gameplay in SPM is not one of its strongest points, but it's still fun to do the boss fights without the game ruining them for you, so I hope you'll enjoy should you get the fancy for a playthrough.

Not a fan of the Gap of Crag, huh?

I especially love the things that look like pearl necklaces in the sky. And the music rocks my core with nostalgia.
youtube.com/watch?v=mSHAbLLkzJQ&t=14s

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I think paper mario 1 & 2 handled levelling pretty well. There is a bit of a scaling presence, but leveling doesn't trivialize the game or gatekeep progress, yet it's always a pleasure to dump more points into BP limit.
It was fun but not gamebreaking

They handled the levelling well because they used badges, which probably ranks very high among the grand list of "brilliant things Nintendo accidentally discovered and didn't realise". Badges as a system of free-allocatable upgrades, alternative moves, stat alterations and options basically triumphs all alternatives and serves as the rocksolid skeleton of the Paper Mario battle system. The heart and other organs being the details of action commands, how defense and elements work and so on. There's more to improve in that soft stuff than in the badge system.

Paper Mario is great if you're a Bowser fan, it's probably the most competent and menacing he's been in the entire series even if he still has a couple of comedic blunders.

It’s a really calming and cool looking zone.

The backtracking is a bit annoying but I’ve always thought people overstate how bad it really is. There’s like two or three screens that enemies don’t respawn in that you have to go back and forth through two or three times. It takes like 45 seconds each way on repeat travels, the first time maybe a few minutes to open pathways and find enemies.

The cutscenes and boss battles probably make up at least half the time you spend there. The backtracking just never bothered me that much, probably in part cause of the soothing song and visuals.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uO8DMlF4B64

Paper Mario has always felt like the most ‘Mario’ the series ever got, to me it’s the definitive version of the world and characters and hits the exact sweetpoint for being the best representation of the personality of the whole series.

Of course, I’m quite nostalgic for it so my take should be taken with a grain of salt.

And of course, it’s not a platformer so it doesn’t represent what the series as a whole is in terms of gameplay.

Damn right. Bowser's music is a huge part of that, it still embodies a kind of cool you can't get in something that takes itself too seriously: fun badass.

youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8NCle31kY

The beautiful thing being it's also the setting at it's most confident, self-aware and relaxed, and has fun with its own rules and setting by having Peach go on stealth adventures and in general play with the formula. Whereas you'd think the Super Mario Formula(tm) was a sacred fucking cow with how dearly Nintendo adheres to it and shits on any alterations.

It’s not as great as TTYD, but it’s much of the same, some consider it better. Both very good games and totally worth your time. I’m still incredibly bitter about the way the paper Mario franchise has disintegrated. Who could have predicted it would go to such soulless shit? Even super paper Mario, for as much that was wrong with it, had some soul.

>I reply to a thread
>everyone stops posting
Every fucking time

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nigger, this thread has gone longer without a post than that 14 minutes you're crying over

Wreckt

It’s a massively different style but I thought his ttyd battle theme was hectic and good at making you feel pumped for the suprise double boss battle.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX2BHu9v7OY

The Mario series will still try new things in terms of gameplay, but the personality and aesthetic feels like it has hit a dead end that they’ll never move away from. Gameplay is most important but other stuff still matters, a lot. Just look at how many people prefer galaxy 1 over 2 - that isn’t cause of gameplay.

It’s sad, I wish they’d mess with Mario aesthetic instead of zelda or metroid. All the old Marios sans lost levels had their own style, wish they’d go back to that. Even if a few bad looks crop up along with the good ones, it’d be better than what they’re doing now.

The mainline series looks as uninspired as the party and sports spinoffs do.