The latest tier list just came in

How is Mario two tiers higher than Doctor Mario? Is FLUDD that good?

>Pikachu is supposedly best
>Not winning any majors, barely ever in top 8

D O U B T

more like doc is too fat

THE CHARACTERS ON THE BOTTOM TIER SUCK BECAUSE THEYRE BADLY DESIGNED

PATCHES WONT FUCKING FIX THIS

This is the most balanced smash has ever been

He has an actual recovery, a kill confirm and way better combo game.

...
Do you not understand how a results based tier list works?

every character at 2.3 and below is unplayable

not even worth saying, that's meaningless

Better recovery, way more combos, gimmicks, he just has alot more options

Doc hits like a truck and tornado can kill ridiculously early but hes too slow and cant recover for shit

I've never seen an Olimar player in my life

Any list that has Joker in top tier is immediately retard tier list.
So fucking sick of how reactionary this shit community is.
One fucking person being good with Joker doesn't make Joker top tier.

Dr. Mario is a piece of shit with a bottom 3 recovery for literally no reason or any benefits to balance it out

He's high damage: the character and NOTHING ELSE. No range, no recovery, no durability or defense, nothing.

>every character below 2.3 is unplayable

Congratulations on blatantly stating that you know nothing about this game or how this tier list works

When has any Pikachu besides ESAM had any results

Even ESAMs track record is shaky

It's all about mobility
Doc gets stuffed out more easily by Sword s and by extension zoners from his lack of mobility. Some people will always mention his worse recovery but that's matchup dependent and in general a flaw that's overstated and doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.
Doc may hit harder but Mario can do combos & juggles more reliably so their damage output end up evening out in most matchups. His main attribute over Mario is just kill potential which comes in handy in only a select few matchups.
I've mained the character since Smash 4 and this placement feels reasonable for him. I don't feel he's particularly worse than anyone below him or better than that many characters above him.

How is Sonic mid tier? He's easily high tier imo

>Ken: 3.5
>Ryu: 3.3
Can someone explain?

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I’m saying that your question is stupid because of course they are not going to “give this game an actual balance patch.”

A good chunk of regionals often fall to the Pikachu dick.
Supermajors arent the only tournaments around.
Idiots.

>and in general a flaw that's overstated and doesn't matter that much
his recovery is as bad as incineroar

the up-B goes up like two inches
the tornado takes so long to act out of that if you vertically mash, you've basically fallen back down once you're able to act

you have to manage your tools perfectly to recover from even trivial shit, and anyone with good edgeguarding can gimp you effortlessly with no counterplay

the worst part is that he's not even heavier than mario, he's slower and has a way worse recovery but still gets launched the same as mario

How do we fix him?

HARD MODE : No air speed buffs

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Alright, let me tell you a little secret.

The opponent can fall out of:

Down B
Side B
Utilt
Usmash
Uair
Fair
Fucking Jab

WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO FIX TIPPERS DAMN IT

Ken and Ryu are ranked separately because they're just different enough to warrant that. Ken has better kill confirms and combo game with his kicks.

Rework his entire moveset so that he actually has some range aside from his stubby hands.

He's this games Shang Tsun in that his moveset has to account for so many different powers so its really kinda shit

Ken has better mobility and a deeper combo game that has more potential than Ryu's. Ryu only mainly has a slightly stronger Shoryu and Shakunetsu being a good projectile. The gap between these two could extend as the game goes on but for now it's accepted that Ken is only slightly better than Ryu.
Lack of representation, although KEN hasn't traveled much despite being a huge threat in Japan that could shake the opinions of the character overseas
Pïc related is his latest result

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>that one guy

nononono! heavies were supposed to be good this time!

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Makes enough sense. Brainlets like me saw them as having the variation of Samus and Dark Samus.

I think as a whole there's enough maneuvering even with characters from Doc to Incineroar to Mac to be able to recover decently most of the time. Just a matter of DI-ing right and not wasting your options too early. There's enough mixups to make it work as long as you're not fighting a crazy mess of lingering hitboxes like Bayonetta or Game&Watch.

You can't change him without changing the spirit of his character, similar to Mac.
All of Kirbys specials are iconic, and they all suck dick.

ultimate is balanced enough that the majority of any given tier list is irrelevant. the only meaningful part is the bottom tier characters that have legitimate flaws gimping their kits in high level play. other than that it's all just dickwaving and bullshittery, at least 2/3 of the cast is basically just "a good player could do extremely well with this character"

Make a mechanic that allows him too shoot out a puff of air when he lands or fastfalls after a few jumps.

Poor poor Kirby.

This list is fucking ancient and literally made by redditors.

Yeah, it's funny seeing them try to scramble to make a tierlist for whatever reason.
Hey, remember when Wolf was undoubtedly the best character in the game?
Hey remember when Inkling was definitely for sure the best character?
Etc etc

Who the fuck keeps pushing this narrative that MKLeo carries any character he plays?

Listen to this, as I'm only going to say it once.
The best player will always pick the best chaarcter.

Seething

see, this is where people are having trouble comprehending ultimate. that's the mentality to take to a badly balanced game, which is what people are used to. thing is, ultimate is quite well balanced compared to previous games, so there is no "best character"

But... that character less than two weeks ago was wolf?
And then it was Olimar?
What happened to SNake being the best?
And back then it was Inkling?
And before that it was Ike?
How can there be a best character when you fucking retards keep changing it literally every week.

Ganondorf not being shit tier after two games is very refreshing.

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Just fucking give him some bullshit at this point. He's not gonna go anywhere without being balls to the wall retarded in some areas since he's a Brawler with Slow Mobility.
Make one of his tilts confirm into a Smash or something like that, give UpTilt more hitstun. Significantly lower the endlag of Inhale so that it can be a reliable mixup to punish shield without overly commiting for it

I lost all motivation to play this game when they removed samus' shield break setups

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Ryu's playstyle relies more heavily on zoning with hadoukens thanks to shakunetsu while Ken's command kicks, faster speed, and better shoryu means he goes for rushdown.