Who wins?

Instantaneous Movement is Instant, it doesn't move at light speed like the dub says.

Light speed was broken in at least the Saiyan Saga. Just look at how fast Krillin and Roshi were in DB explaining what they did in an instant that was invisible to the naked eye.
youtube.com/watch?v=qhfp3QSEL94

Ah, Sol then. Gotcha

>Oops, need to get stronger.
>Better use one of my fucking handful of transformations.
>Haha, time to transform again.
>Haha, time to transform now my hair is longer.
>Haha, time to transform, now I look like a furry.
>Haha, time to transform, now my hair is red.
>Haha, time to transform, now I look like my first transformation but blue instead.
>oops, need to get stronger, haha. Now I'm blue but also red.
>I'm fighting without thinking so now that's another transformation.
>I'm fighting without thinking but BETTER so now my hair is white, haha
>My number is bigger than your number, time for me to smirk smugly and slap you for 6 episodes.
>Oh no, now your number is bigger, time for you to smirk smugly and slap me for 6 episodes.
>Oops, Toriyama made the villain too powerful again. Time for spirit bomb.
>He'd rather be doing gag manga, even though he's the least funniest person to ever live.
>(Raughs)(Raughs)(Raughs)(Raughs)(Raughs)(Raughs)
At the very fucking least, Sol's dragon form feels like he's turning off and restriction limiter. Dragon Ball and its contemporaries are fucking retarded.

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>It's sol
>gets bodied for free by a family man whos been retired from fighting for years

Dragon install isn't even as strong as he can get, only reason he doesn't go any further is because he can't come back from it.

That's not faster than light, that's faster than the eye. Faster than light is a speed that moves faster than it takes for light to become visible. There are several thousand things faster than human vision. There are very few things faster than light.

If I had a camera, and I filmed the both of them fighting, the playback would actually show all of their movements: slowed down. That's why we have high framerate technology. Lightspeed is a speed which cannot be filmed, or seen.

You're missing the point. This is when the characters were children. They're trillions of times stronger and faster nowadays.

Anime and anime fighters are fucking stupid.

>pro GG players can win at DBFZ
>pro DBFZ players can't win at GG
Clearly that means Sol is the winner.

I know I'm missing the point, it's intentional. I'm recommending you pay attention to the scientific premise of lightspeed travel, rather than observe the nuance of the in-universe power levels.

I'm not being obtuse, I'm plainly telling you that Goku is able to survive space travel because of instant transmission. Not because of some magic.

>POWERING UP MAKES THE FIGHTS SO MUCH BETTER
imagine applying that logic to what should be a witty debate or dialogue, and it's just two guys taking turns to scream increasingly louder at each other

>I'm not being obtuse, I'm plainly telling you that Goku is able to survive space travel because of instant transmission. Not because of some magic.
What? What does that have to do with anything? If anything Instantaneous Movement is basically an ability to use Ki to overlap two points in space. It's not travel.

It's hard to quantify Sol's actual power because he always does that "Heh, you just made use 10% of my maximum power" shit.

The power-up sequence is okay. It's in Sailor Moon and Gundam. It really depends on how it's done. The length of the powerup doesn't matter as much as the execution. Macross proved that time and time again. That a character can have a whole episode to powerup and if its executed well enough, it won't interfere with the enjoyment at all.

In some cases, it can even contribute to it.

Teleportation is still that very same thing. Which is lightspeed travel. They explain that in Portal too. Teleportation is a form of lightspeed travel: you're essentially creating rifts in spacetime.

>imagine applying that logic to what should be a witty debate or dialogue,
Are you saying that the 2016 elections wouldn't have been better if Trump and Hillary didn't have to power up their ki first?

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He can solo both of them

Attached: giorno.jpg (1280x859, 376K)

I think the dude who literally becomes a god on command is probably the winner here, chief. If you specifically mean Super Saiyan 1 Goku, it could maybe go either way.

Goku?

He can solo literally anyone and anything.

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Sol can become a god killer on command sort of, he just can't come back from it.

Right, except it's not teleportation.
It's Instantaneous Movement.
I understand that with teleportation you're breaking down matter into particles that can move "theoretically" at close to light speed. Instantaneous Movement essentially is a 4D hack using Ki that displaces your time space coordinates based on the Ki signature you "latch" on to.

>"lol I negate literally anything you can do"

bravo Araki

You guys are putting way too much effort into a move thought up by the poo poo pee pee fart joke raugh raugh man.

WHOEVER WINS WE LOSE

No you misunderstand. The state of two points in space being occupied at the same time is, very literally, teleportation. What you're describing are the basic logistics of teleportation, just like in Portal.

Where's the power man meme when you need him?

Goku. Honestly surprised to see people here who think otherwise.

I've read his Gear abilities. He's far from a god killer and until I actually see him use any of that bullshit he can supposedly use, it's impossible for him to use it to me. I don't give a shit. In fact, it's autistic enough that I'm even posting in a powerlevel thread right now, but you gotta be hella biased to think Goku doesn't slap the shit out of Sol.

Kusoru?

DBZ was always fucking dumb to use feats with. We were just dumb children.
Moon busting is leagues better than anything anyone did physically even in Super and Roshi did it before even Picollo Sr.
While Super Goku has trouble beating a fat magical girl doing the exact same mach speed paddy cake that's totally faster than it was decades ago, trust us, since Piccolo Jr.

I don't think even Saitama could beat GER

They never really explain how strong Sol can get, I don't know why i'm in this shitty thread either. But what I do know is that They're both made to be "limitless" in a way, that's why this is retarded.

Why does Sol get a pass for being so an obnoxious and obvious self insert? His powers are retarded run of the mill "do everything, but flashy" he has the classic edgy mode that every self insert has, and the plot revolves around him and what he puts his dick in. Is it because he's not a twink like most self inserts?

It's true, either one ensures the Earth gets blown up at least once.

Guilty Gear always gets a pass from anime haters because muscular dudes and rock references.

He might, if it's done with OPM logic he'd probably be to strong or too tough for Giorno to be able to do any damage.

It's just the mythology which creates the actual problem. At a cursory glance the feature of being all powerful gods is native to the protagonist, but if it were true they wouldn't be defeated. The general nature of the mythoi creates a problem where their powerpool seems bottomless, but they're very vulnerable beings.

They're not like Superman or Dr. Manhattan you know.

Can't reduce to zero what already happened, motherfucker.

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Madara?

>Sol
>self insert
Maybe for like one dude being the creator. I can't see how anyone else can identify with him.

Much like Warcraft isn't nerdy shit that's way worse than even most shonen.
Muscles, popularity, and Western pandering.

It's a fighting game, and story/lore is always secondary, making cliches and dumb tropes a plus.

Step back you little bitch.

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Yes, it's well known he's the creator's self insert. Self inserts for people who make the media are infinitely worse than blank slates meant for the consumer, because they force the world to revolve around them to sate the creator's ego.

The Shirou, Sakura, Caster, and Rin's town bike doesn't get to speak.

Goku destroys him using hakai

Most Sol fanboys are legit homosexuals

But Giorno doesn't need to do damage to reset you to zero.

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What would stop a planet buster from blowing up the Earth from the opposite side with Saitama on it?

AHHHH

MODS!!! RETCON THIS!!!

>Self-insert
Dude is a walking Freddy Mercury reference

But Sol literally retcons the time paradox of him dying. He even goes "lol I dunno."

>the only technique that he has that moves faster than light is instant transmission and it uses up a metric asston of ki.
It doesn't though. The only limitation it's shown throughout the series is that long-range teleportation requires a Ki signature to lock onto. Goku spams is pretty liberally.

Sol is Daisuke's Mary Sue OC, why do you think he voiced Sol for long?

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high IQ post here
the one with better OST

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True, but again using OPMs stupid logic. Saitama being a huge joke, would either not let him be reset to zero.

Goku was literally breaking the universe from merely clashing fists with Beerus way back when he was just SSGSS, long before he further refined his godmode. What has Sol done that's anywhere near that level, let alone surpass it?

Yeah he does and usually runs out of ki within the fight.

It happened during the Cell Games, it happened during the Buu saga, it happened during Super Baby, it happened in the movies.

The concept of death, nonexistence and being destroyed doesn't apply to him.

What the fuck, Sol-Badguy literally caused Earth's apocalypse not once, but twice in fighting Justice. He literally shatters concepts when he fights demi-gods and pure beings.

>Goku was literally breaking the universe from merely clashing fists with Beerus way back when he was just SSGSS
Only for literally every other fight to say this more or less didn't happen at all.

Shiki kills them both.

Attached: 1145803126178.jpg (564x318, 43K)

See

>Cell Games
You mean when he literally quit mid-fight simply because he wanted Gohan to do the job instead? This was after he popped off a very powerful Kamehameha, mind you.
>Buu arc
Do you mean when he literally had infinite Ki, or during the time he was using the ki hog that was SS3?
>Super Baby
>Movies
Not canon

Sol gets a pass because the way he is written means he doesn't over bear on the story. He's really fucking lazy and doesn't want to go all out ever if he doesn't have to. The story also focuses on side characters a lot. Also he's just cool.

He sounds like a terribly written character
A perfect match for Dragon Ball

So because he's a muscle guy, gotcha.

Yes! I mean that! That same fight where he exhausted all his energy and told his son to win the whole thing! The Warp Kamehameha is the combination of Instant Transmission and Super Kamehameha!

The fight when he comes back after Mystic Gohan losing. He gets exhausted again! Burns his entire ki out and uses what little he has left to go to Supreme Kai's planet. That's why the final bit of the Kid Buu arc takes place there!

Ah, how boring. So Sol is your typical hax bullshit character. Whatever, I'll give him the win but I'm not the least bit impressed with his moveset. Goku is strong enough to almost wipe out an entire universe from merely clashing fists with another God by sheer force of his ki. No kind of bullshit hax, but pure overwhelming power & energy force.

Plenty of other series are stronger than DBZ, but DBZ is hands down the strongest hand to hand combat/martial artist anime series without question.

Both Goku’s combat and flight speed are above the speed of light if he goes all out. In DBZ they’ve been doing bursts of faster than lightspeed movement in fights since the end of DB, that’s what Afterimage is. Then in the Cell Saga you saw Goku and Cell fight fast enough to where they were both invisible during the entire duration of the fight. And since then he’s gotten even stronger and faster. What’s happened is that people became skilled enough to detect faster than lightspeed movement (as stupid as that sounds DB doesn’t follow physics), and it’s been a cat and mouse game with people getting faster and faster and stronger and stronger, with their reactions and defenses following soon after.

Goku is strong enough to destroy the entire universe with his punches. We’ve even seen Gogeta collapse literal reality in the Broly movie. It’s no longer a debate. Goku is stupid powerful.

It's true. You could have just picked a better written mythology like Spirit Detective where power levels are at least constant and don't have spikes which go from less-than-powerless to universe-breaking.

>The Warp Kamehameha is the combination of Instant Transmission and Super Kamehameha!
And you think that the Instant Transmission is the thing that drained his energy, and not the intense battle he had against Cell that was topped off by a Super Kamehameha?
>Burns his entire ki out and uses what little he has left to go to Supreme Kai's planet
Confirmed to have not watched the series in over a decade. I bet you think he made the conscious decision to save Dende and Satan when he picked them up along the way too. He couldn't even lock onto the planet's Ki signature fast enough, Kibito Kai warps in and saves their asses.

>Has unimaginable power
>Doesn't want to do anything with it and want to be left alone in peace
Better than "Protag MC who strive to be the greatest because he is an underdog, but he manage to pull anything with asspulls"

He's literally just THAT kid's character. You know, he has all the powers, and no powers work on him, and everyone likes him, and he doesn't really care or try, and his faults is that he's lazy and unmotivated, but he still prevails anyway. Basically every single Mary Sue OC ever made. Obviously a main character meant to be likable won't beat him, because they have to have actual faults to be likeable. Goku is a terrible father and husband, loses plenty of fights, and isn't good at anything other than fighting. Not to mention he always has plenty of help defeating strong opponents, he isn't a cool, badass lone wolf who operates alone, because he's too cool, and bad ass and free. Christ, can you believe Sol was actually written by an adult grown ass man?

I don't think you can actually legislate a character's powerlevel based on special conditions like fusions.It would be akin to saying Order-Sol is applicable, or Super Kaiyoken being applicable. Things which are generally seen as overwrought or just downright impossible because of in-universe logic are now customary to application in comparisons via mutatis mutandis.

It would just be weird.

Isn't that the same time Kid Buu destroys the planet and Goku has to sit out a third of the fight while Vegeta gets smacked to smithereens because of the Spirit Bomb?

The very same fight where Goku is exhausted enough to bet everything on a hail mary?

Why are people trying to quantify power levels of a fighting game character? All that shit is secondary to the most important part, the gameplay.

Isnt Slayer the only character who could get go toe to toe with Sol?

Goku is just stupidly overpowered and basically demonbane tier, so if the enemy isn't literally demonbane or full of plot armor then they can't do shit against Goku.

He's still weaker than My and That Man and not everybody likes him, Raven thinks Sol is a whiny shithead.

>Above the speed of light
I hate lightspeed as a genuine claim in general for nearly every show or comic in existence. Do you fucking know how fast lightspeed is?
He wouldn't need instant transmission whatsoever on Earth.
Perfect Ultra Instinct Goku vs Jiren would just be a minor warmup.

>that’s what Afterimage is.
Jesus Christ, wiggle your hand while loosening all your muscles outside your wrist.
WHOOOOOOOA, AFTERIMAGE.

perfected Ultra Instinct Goku wins, end of story.

Dragonball is fantasy. It doesn’t and hasn’t followed the laws of physics since its conception.

If Goku can teleport anywhere in the universe instantly, he’s FTL no questions asked. If Goku can collapse reality with his punches, he’s strong enough to destroy the Universe, no questions asked. If we’ve seen him tank a literal black hole, he can survive the inescapable density of a black hole. If we’ve seen him fly across a planet larger than Earth in literal seconds, his travel speed is FTL. If we’ve seen him turn invisible for literal hours due to his speed, his reaction is FTL. It’s not a debate anymore, Goku’s only weakness is “people stronger than him.” Which at this point is basically whatever the writers think up for drama inside DB.

Lightspeed was broken in the Ginyu Force arc. Goku vs Burter. Now take that all the way to MUI vs Jirin, and you realize Goku might be 50x lightspeed by now and even faster than Dyspo. (Who's so fast even the creators of the DB multiverse can't see him without their Godpads)

Goku got this.

Attached: Dyspoo.png (199x499, 139K)

Sol has punched with enough force to destroy what is equivalent of a small mountain when he wasn't even at full power, DBZ isn't really the strongest anime series when you have characters like Slayer (Who canonically beat the shit out of every single monster in some other dimension before getting bored and settling down) and Sol in the same Game, Slayer says things like "I wish we had a spare thousand kilometres of space to go all out so we can see who is really the strongest" to Sol and Slayer has people other than Sol who he considers his near equals.

>Real name Frederick Bulsara
>Freddie's real name is Farrokh Bulsara
>Sol Badguy
>Freddie other's nickname is Mr. Badguy
>Sol's Hobby : Listening to Queen, especially the Sheer Heart Attack album.
I'm surprised Daisuke doesn't insert any Jojo reference

That's too much of an overkill, Blue will be more than enough.

GG's power level meme is that everyone has Mary Sue levels of power for sometimes unjustifiable reasons. Turns out the dumbest and most humble one, Axl, could quite likely delete the universe if he so wishes to go back in time. Pot is a much, much stronger and more bullshit Hulk, Slayer and Gabriel being incredibly and ridiculously strong and skilled, etc. Sol is a clear favorite but it's heavily implied to go fully insane and go full Gear on everyone's ass if he goes full power.

Ky and That Man are stronger than him and Raven and Slayer, and I think Bedman and Ariel's, would be around as strong as him.

>Demonbane tier
Are you fucking kidding me?

>Isn't that the same time Kid Buu destroys the planet and Goku has to sit out a third of the fight while Vegeta gets smacked to smithereens because of the Spirit Bomb?
>The very same fight where Goku is exhausted enough to bet everything on a hail mary?
That's because he spent the majority of his time in that fight playing around in SS3, which was established MULTIPLE TIMES before that point to be a waste of Ki. He burned himself out because the form wastes TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF ENERGY

youtu.be/U-yIzkh78Yo
Here's a little refresher (in the form of the Kai edit, since the original japanese edit doesn't have subs)
>Vegeta and Goku emerge from Super Buu after removing their friends
>They rush to save them when Kid Buu decides he wants to kill everyone instead of fighting
>Pick up Satan and Dende along the way, because they are in the same path that they are going
>Goku fails to lock onto the Kaioshin planet's ki signature
>Kibito Kai warps in and pulls them out

>Fast forward
>Goku is literally play fighting like a fucking moron against Kid Buu
>Wastes so much of his energy that he needs Vegeta and even Majin Buu to stall for time to regain it

See, this is why people adore DBZ so much & revere Super Saiyan. It's not because DBZ is literally the strongest series, they're weak as fuck all things considered. However, they're up against Gary Stu's and Mary Sue, Donut Steel, Nothin Personnel faggot shit. Everything that top tier characters accomplish in DBZ for the most part is entirely their sheer combat prowess & life force refined through martial arts. No faggot ass special snowflake abilities, but raw strength & power.

Sol's nothing special user, just another boring self-insert "I can do anything" snowflake. Goku is a martial artist who gets his power from strength and mental training, honing his martial arts. He's far more respectable of a character than a boring overpowered piece of shit like Sol.

Slayer has equals like Gabriel so if we take what Slayer says as accurate, Gabriel could probably have a good shot at Sol. There is also the bullshit hax characters like Bedman, Raven is immortal because of a literal glitch in the matrix, same with Sharon.

Super Saiyan kaiyoken is a actual thing now user

He has, Zappa references JoJo. He has DIO's heart motif in his design and he fights by striking poses while ghosts he summons fight for him.

i cant tell if youre being serious or taking a jab at kuwabaras dimension sword

All of you guys are arguing about how goku his faster than light, but didn't Goku managed to go so fast, he could outspeed time itself in this scene ?

Or at least he was so fast, he could outspeed timeskip.

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What the hell is the point of relative physics in a fictional environment if the focus of narrative is to create or design a universe in which these proponents have feasible logic?

Isn't Dragonball a kind of Science Fiction story too? Doesn't the actual application of science sit on the locus of the entire series? Doesn't actual scientific logic rest at the nadir of what characters can and cannot do? Without science and its application Dragonball is virtually expressionless. A meaningless pursuit.

>He's far more respectable of a character than a boring overpowered piece of shit like Sol.
This is why I'll always prefer characters like Goku, Kenshiro and Guts

I like both DB and GG m8. It's implied he's not the strongest characters and it's clear you haven't read/seen GG content. GG's story isn't an award winner but it's not bad. If you dislike it so much then at least formulate your own opinions based on what you've read or seen, not what other people parrot.

Name 3 (three) vidya characters that could realistically defeat Goku going all out.

If you do chances are that they are broken as all fuck such as Zeedmillenniummon which also happens to be demonbane tier.

>Sol has punched with enough force to destroy what is equivalent of a small mountain
That would be impressive before the saiyan saga

Oh shit you right. I forgot. Shame he is turned normal in Xrd

Isn't the bitch that hangs out with Slayer stronger than him? I don't follow fighting game lore autism, hell I don't even do campaign if it doesn't unlock characters.

>Raw strength and power
That's just the polar opposite idiocy.
Wow, he's just stronger. He's not much intelligent, he has no unique gimmick that's foreign/a nemesis to their way of fighting, even Ultra Instinct is more or less
>Wow! He's actually trying to DODGE!

i thought that cutscene implied Ky was just way more trained, effecient and ruthless than Human sol but doesnt have Sols level of raw power

this He can already infinite mass punch Jirin without even touching him.

Tons of characters can flaseflagger

Goku because he moves fast enough to go forward in time

Sharon is immortal because of a glitch in the matrix and we aren't told much about her. Slayer is scared of her but that might just be a "ohoho his wife is a hardass" type joke.

Oh then Goku is just plain arrogant then.

I honestly liked Sol alot more when I thought of him as merely a powerful and skilled swordsman. Turns out he's just Superman with a sword, fucking boring.

It's still more interesting to watch Goku get stronger from simple strength training & mental training than just being some bullshit broken OC Superman clone. This is why so many people like DBZ, because their strength is far more interesting and inspiring. I'm sure alot of people have been driven to the gym & over self improvement due to seeing Goku in action.

Destroying the moon isn't strong enough? What about Roshi putting out an entire mountain of fire in one kamehameha?

Sol is scared shitless of Ky, he admits it. Sol is sure that even DI isn't enough. Ky is a clearly superior fighter and more efficient.

Ky is more skilled, but has no where near the amount of raw power all out Sol has.
He has some weird gear eye shit now so things might have changed.

So name them.

Wasn't he essentially reading where Hit was going to attack?

No. He's a fight autist. The English dub and a lot of translations tone that down by a lot but he was literally dropped on his head (off of a cliff) as an infant. He's just a plain idiot, that's part of his character.

Goku wins, and efforts to deny this are just fanboys rooting for their character. For fuck sake, we are talking about a universe where characters have the power to nuke planets if they want to

The powerscaling and strengths in Dragonball are just insane. Sol dude would have a hard time with sayain saga Vegeta.

Just because the dragonball world is futuristic and has aliens doesn't make it science fiction
That's like calling jojo a comedy manga yeah sure it has comedy but that isn't the focus

It's also the first time Ky ever won a fight against Sol. Don't know why everyone thinks Ky is stronger than Sol.

>Answer this irrelevant question that I haven't proven is even credible enough to work
No no no, explain how Goku beats Demonbane.

What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Bayonetta
Dante
Belmont
That wasn't so hard

From GG without stupid bullshit MC powers: Slayer, Ky, Gabriel. All characters that can go toe to toe with the stupid bullshit MC Sol and might even win.

He'll probably have S-Ko back and be playable in the next game anyway.

It relies kind of heavily on basic laws of science like space and time, not to mention gravity, heat and energy.

Characters in guilty gear can nuke planets user
i agree though goku would win

Not him but that was before the kaioken

outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/2550-character-profile-sol-badguy
outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/24-character-profile-son-goku

It's funny because despite how awful the story is most of the time, Mori almost manages to handle his own high school OC Hakumen well in Blazblue. People shit their pants because they know he can still kick holes through their chest at 20% of his strength, and he bullshits his way out of a couple situations by doing stuff like observing his own existence so he isn't beholden to anyone else, but he also can't solve everything (or really much of anything) despite being the legendary facefucker in the flesh. The villains cheat, and he can be overwhelmed, it's just a pain in the ass to do and doesn't deal with him permanently, so people just avoid him when possible because fighting him sucks.
Of course then it wraps around the other way where Hakumen becomes a joke and his super ultra "erase being from timeline" move doesn't work either time he does it, but really more and more of the cast becomes a joke as the plot moves forward so it was only a matter of time.

He lost the other fights because he just wanted to duel Sol without hurting him, where Sol was just fighting back not caring if he killed Ky or not. The point of the conversation they had was that of Ky and him had ever fought to the death, Ky would have won.

Just for clarification. Early characters like vegeta could do that, and now the powerscaling is way beyond that.

>Superman with a sword

Off the top of my head, and only considering Xrd, Sol went through multiple ups and downs in the story, and most of the plot relevant important stuff was either done as a team or he had little participation to. He's not as strong as people like to think considering he'd have to entirely go nuts permanently to go full power, he's gimped. He's not powerful enough to do the stuff he wants to do alone too, which is entirely his motto. Sol actually raises his fucking grandson which is a lot to say considering Goku was mostly absent for Gohan and an entire non factor for Goten. Maybe he's not such a shit character as you might think. You honestly haven't read or watched enough relevant material. I know you have a hateboner for him and this won't change your opinion but I'm just letting you know your point holds no ground and you have clear ignorance of the matter so I'm not gonna let that shit slide. Goku is cool in his own way, but Sol is too in his other way.

At first yes, but when Goku used SSJ Blue Kaiken x10, he could still move even when Hit was pausing time, hence why some people are saying Goku managed to outspeed time itself.

This was made more plausible when Jiren, manage to beat Hit's time powers with nothing but raw strength.

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Forget Vegeta, Freeza was at that level before being introduced. Like that's his whole story.

>Bayonetta
Too fragile she has great powers but lets not forget that Goku can basically destroy the entire fucking galaxy if he wanted, witch time won't have any effect on him.
>Dante
He is resilient but only to a certain degree, I imagine a single punch ripping his head clean off
>Belmont
As in Castlevania's Belmonts? only Julius is strong and even yet he is only strong enough to kill Dracula which in all honestly isn't that powerful, I mean, he can't even blow up the planet, Goku can do it effortlessly.

King vegeta who has a powerlevel of 10000 the same as bardock one shot three planets

Frieza in his first form was literally 10% of his full power. And he dominated the entire universe at the beginning of Z.

Those characters would get one shot
>Frieza in his first form was literally 10% of his full power.
I thought it was 1%

>Powerscaling

Enough.

Bayonetta has gone beyond universes on her own feats. She's about as strong as the gods, themselves and can summon and control one too.
Dante laughs at this. He might lose, but unless Goku starts at full power, up to SS3 will be dead in a second.
The Belmonts are just a meme. I'm just messing with ya.

Asura
>She's about as strong as the gods, themselves
Wrong

So, Goku.

I'm speaking purely in terms of powersets. Sol may be an interesting character, but his abilities are entirely bullshit. Saitama is a bullshit character too, but at least he got his power from surpassing his limits from strength training & doesn't do any of the over-the-top nonsense that I'm reading about Sol. I have no respect for such broken characters like that, especially when people match them up against characters with a respectable powerset like DBZ, as if their bullshit hax character winning means anything. It's no different than some child going "well my character can do THIS!", please.

Show me another series whos characters get their power from self-improvement/training & not being special snowflakes that can do literally anything and who can can then go on to match DBZ in power. That's the point I'm making here.

Bayonetta is Asura's wrath level. She punched her own god into oblivion in the first game. And she multiplies witch times into witch times to fight angels in literally one second. She's massively FTL in the beginning of her game. And Goku can't touch her when she teleports into purgatory.

Dyspo is best boi

Attached: UR Dyspo.png (638x1136, 593K)

t. Never played Bayonetta 1 & 2

Bayonetta and Dante are powerful relative to the threats they face, which is peanuts compared to DB. I mean what are they gonna do, fucking shoot Goku? Maybe swing a sword at him? Keep in mind Goku isn't foreign to the supernatural, considering he has fought in the afterlife as well as combating the actual Gods of his universe.

Does that mean Goku could negate King Crimson? Could he even defeat The World?

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In Guilty Gear there are multiple characters that got their powers from self-improvement and training, that's literally the same series as Sol.

Didn't Superman get shitstomped by Zod? I'll give you Dr. Manhattan though. That nigga is literally God.

The Heartbreak Kid Shawn Michaels?

So how about Yamcha? can your favorite vidya character defeat the all powerful God Yamchad?

Goku becoming Angel tier is impressive. Bayonetta kills angels in her sleep. And if you bring in Death Battle's stats, it's implied Dante is even stronger in Bayo vs Dante.

Sorry your boi ain't strong enough and can't handle MUI to win. Broly would've killed both Goku and Vegeta and he didn't even try destroying Earth first.

Give me some example of what they did and the power they received from it. Goku's able to nearly destroy an entire universe from the sheer force of his punches. None of that his bullshit hax, all of it is raw power & inner ki that Goku got from strength and mental training.

What the fuck has Sol done to earn the absolute bullshit broken abilities that he has? How many pushups & meditation did he do to be able to do that?

That point is valid, but I've mentioned it before, Sol simply can't access those bullshit powers or he'll completely go insane, also this might sound off to you but he's old as fuck and has seen tons of battles, he has a fuckton of experience fighting gears, otherwordly beings and excessively strong humans. I understand that you think he doesn't have the merit to have those powers, but 1) those powers are locked or he's fucked and 2) he has fucktons of fighting experience, where he improved his skills and made a name for himself as a very strong bounty hunter. He got his gear powers immediately, but as we've seen before in GG, no matter how BS a Gear is, they can be dealt with. It's been demonstrated time and time again that Sol can be absolutely fucked by multiple of the casts characters which got their powers through (written) effort like Gabriel, which is insanely strong.

All the important characters in DBZ are saiyans, AKA special snowflake: the species. They literally have an ability that makes them stronger even if they lose, also if you can get five of them together they can turn themselves into gods.

Superman is night invulnerable towards the end of his life.

The more I read, the more I learn that he really is invulnerable to all kinds of harm. Superman is weak against magic, but that really is it. Even kryptonite hardly has an effect on him in some versions.

Superman is literally just a powerhouse of modern powerlevels, some of the stuff he can do is not only boring, but completely broken.Dr. Manhattan is on the other side of that coin; while Superman is invulnerable, Dr. Manhattan is invincible. He just cannot be overcome. He can take damage, have his intrinsic field subtracted, he can be scattered across the sky like dust, and still come back.

The two of them are just menacingly bad when it comes to being unstoppable forces.

>Goku fight Golden Frieza
>Whis cheats and give him the kill
>Goku fights Zamasu
>Lol, senzu beans and escape to heal
>Goku fights Jirin
Heal in a corner multiple times, get knocked out, gain MUI, and still lose to Jirin and have friends save the day.
>Goku fights Broly
Fusion is a cheap tactic to make weak saiyans stronger.

Goku hasn't won a single fight from Super on his own. He's not as strong as you think.

>If you get five pure hearted saiyans to hold hands you get a form that is stronger than Super Saiyan Vegito
Crazy.

Only if they are good, Saiyans at least from the universe 7 are all genocidal morons but Goku and then Vegeta.

Sorry user in dragonball you have multiple different types of beings called angels
The cloest thing to bayonetta angels and gods are weak and shitty compared to goku

Ky trained with the sword and magic for years to become strong enough to fight Gears, has become hyper efficient at fighting so that he can go toe to toe with literally anyone in the Series. Slayer is a Monster from another dimension that beat the shit out of every other monster before coming to our dimension for shits and giggles, we aren't told why he is strong but it's likely that he earned it with 100s if not 1000s of years of fighting. Gabriel is just a regular human who is so strong that Slayer considers him a worthy rival, it's also not really told to us why he is so strong but since he is just a regular human, it's probably from training and battle experience.
We aren't told exactly how they all got their power because it's not 100+ episodes of anime/100s of chapters of manga, so they can't show us it, it would be super boring in a game which is about 1v1 fights, but they definitely earned their strength even if they seem bullshit in-story/in game.

They get special back tingles and then BAM, they can fight super saiyan gods in super saiyan 2. Isn't that broken?

Don't forget the fact that sayians are notoriously dangerous breeders.

Heterogeneity breeds like fucking fire. Mutts end up stronger than their fathers, daughters million times stronger than their parents.

Could Superman withstand a Hakai ?

youtube.com/watch?v=NeOvCK3Bkz0

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MUI basically beat Jirin within an inch of his life. Goku would have won if he didn't hesitate to finish him off. I don't think anyone can argue Goku is weak. Just naive. The same thing happened with Golden Frieza. He pretty much won, but allowed the nigga to use some mook to shoot him with a laser. Everything Frieza said about him in that moment is right. He's too powerful for his own good, and believes he can just overpower his opponents and force them to change their ways. When they, for the most part, never will.

Actually you get a form stronger than ss3
The super saiyan forms are a multiplier if goku gained that form in the saiyan saga he would be weaker than namek saga super saiyan 1 goku

Said mutts will reach their peak in teenage years and have the tendency to job to old enemies even when their potential is unlocked twice.

How powerful would a fusion of Goku and Giorno be? The power of Ultra Instinct Gioku Sonna and his stand, Golden Experience Requiem Golden Experience.

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Said mutts will get a whole character arc in Super too.

They will also job against Buu, Super Buu and various enemies retconned in GT.

What the fuck?

Or Ky, who can beat Sol no problem if he takes off the kid gloves and fights dirty.

youtube.com/watch?v=y56IWiNW4vI

From Beerus maybe but not from Zeno.

>inch of his life
Jiren was still a beast, nearly taking down Goku, 17, and Frieza immediately just from his firewall aura alone. They fought in sheer adrenaline panic and Jiren just stands there smiling. They got lucky and Goku wasn't enough to do the job.

Also a typo on my part, I meant heterosis.

Old age must really be getting to me.

Well, even Golden Frieza survived a hakai, but it might depend on how delivers it. Toppo's hakai energy didn't kill him either, neither did Sidra's hakai energy kill Goku (at least, instantly. He still had to be rescued by Beerus).

Hard to say. I think if it's weaker God's of destruction, yes. But from Beerus? That's questionable.

It's so significantly stronger than SS3 it's not even funny considering the effort needed to get it.
Super Saiyan Vegito made Buu (Who absorbed SS3 Gotenks, Piccolo AND Ultimate Gohan, who was stronger than SS3 Goku) look like a complete bitch and we learn in BoG that Super Vegito stands no chance against Beerus, but this new god form without the use of fusion does.
SSG's multiplier is so fucking stupid it might actually make saiyan saga Goku stronger than Namek saga Super saiyan 1 Goku.

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Don't forget mutts may say that they will train differently to get a form just as powerful as Super Saiyan Blue......

....but of all the broken limits, mutts did not improve in the Tournament of Power or get their own transformation.

However, royal mutts can get a demi-god powerup that can kill immortals because...plot reasons.

Golden Frieza is stupidly resilient for some reason.

What the FUCK

Dragonball is THE series which explores heterosis and for all its exploration it CONSTANTLY renders the idea moot.

Frieza's race of ice demons are confirmed to be all about speed and defense. His brother survives being blown into the freakin sun. And Frieza can survive as chop up bits of meat. It's hard to kill this guy.

>Superman is weak against magic

Not entirely true, it doesn't kill him just by being around him, like kryptonite will, he just isn't any more resistant to it than the average human. A sword that sings when it is swung will do no extra(or maybe even any)damage to him, it needs to have an effect that applies to him, and it will affect him the same way it would John Q. Public. That's why he can and has taken hits from Thor's hammer in crossovers and not been pulped instantly, because Thor's hammer is enchanted, yes, but it is enchanted to hit very hard, which Superman is resistant to. If it were enchanted to kill on hit, then Clark would be in trouble.

In his MUI form, he was clearly kicking Jirin around like a fucking ragdoll. He was about to deliver the finishing blow, but unfortunately he waited way too fucking long in that moment. Of course Jirin could fight against them combined, because regular Frieza was never a threat to him to begin with, and neither was Goku base.

Dude let's assume the multiplier is 2x the power of ss3
That's a HUGE boost

Jesus Christ

Superman is truly the go-to icon of OP. He is the paragon of overpowered.

He survived a god of destructions energy not a hakai

>Goku's Strength
>Giorno's 8 deminsional brain
Even without GER he's literally unstoppable. With GER... oh god...

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What's your favorite Super Saiyan transformations? There's so many, you could probably make multiple Top 10 lists without overlap.

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>Sol has a cute daughter
>Goku's two kids are fucking jobber losers.

I didn't mean it to sound like Frieza is weak. Certainly the icejins aren't a weak race. Just that he's certainly not the strongest being in the universe. That's what I meant by "even". Even a being who is not the strongest in the DB universe survived hakai energy, so Superman probably could (at least, Sidra's and Toppo's. Don't know about Beerus. Certainly not Zeno. No one can survive that fucking monster).

sol is honest. he was literally voiced by the guy who used him as a self insert for most of the series. I can't really be mad about how obvious it is

tbrh Toppo was only just an apprentice GoD and Sidra only gave a small portion of his Hakai energy to his assassins which was then used by Frieza, hence why those attacks looks more like regular ki blasts than the one Beerus used against Zamasu, or the one Sidra used to destroy a whole city before the start of the ToP.

We honestly don't know shit about how Hakai work. We don't even know if its actual magic or just another power of GoD's ki.

Yeah I mentioned that earlier. I wish we had well done animes, mangas or novels about GG that showed or detailed more stuff about the past. At most we get spin off short stories, some drama CDs here and there and some spin off games that go to casinos and shit like that. Shame honestly, I'm sure if GG's world was more fleshed out we'd have something amazing.

He only landed some air punches and one kamehameha. MUI was on full defense, threw some ki blasts which Jirin reflected back, and got thrown around and was bowing to him before Jiren threatened his friends. Even in MUI he still got hit multiple times and even Jiren said Goku had little stamina left.
It was 50/50 on anybody's fight.

It's much higher than 2x considering everything the Super anime and manga has shown us.
It makes sense when you think about it since god ki is supposed to be endgame.

so my boy sol,thanks for confirmation

Dude what fight were you watching? He got beaten up by Jiren for maybe two seconds, and then proceeded to shitstomp him.

So realistically speaking Pan is the absolute strongest character in the entire DB franchise.
>good hearted so she could go SSGSS
>daughter of the jobber with a huge ass potential
>granddaughter of what could be considered a fightan monkey god
>SSGSS + huge hidden potential + saiyan and human offspring getting stronger than a regular saiyan genes = the strongest character in DB.
She only needs to get almost killed a couple of times to become stronger than el grande padre

Ss1 is 50x the power of base
Ss2 is 2x the power of ss1
Ss3 is 3x the power of ss2
2x the power of ss3 would be amazing

>Daughter who married his rival
>Their son has the hots for your wife's clone

That makes me wonder, if animals and plants could get stands, could aliens and demons get stands too? What stands would characters like Goku, Superman or Sol Badguy have?

Attached: Ceelo Stand.jpg (680x738, 63K)

>and it uses up a metric asston of ki.
No it doesn't.

I THINK I'M CUTE. I KNOW I'M SEXY.

She helped Goku achieve ssg as a fetus. A FETUS.

>She only needs to get almost killed a couple of times to become stronger than el grande padre
More like a dozen times.
Gohan had to be beaten nearly to death a few times before he could beat Cell.

We don't even know If SSJ god and blue are multiplier tho.
Goku in Blue seems to have perfect control on his strenght and his ki. He even used it against Krilin in a friendly fight.

Not even, Flash can, through Speedforce hax, throw a punch that has an infinite amount of force behind it.

what is it with arcsys and clone incest?

Female modifier gives her -99% to potential.

Of course she has the most potential, SHE MADE HER HUMAN MOM GO SUPER SAIYAN.

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user please tell me you haven't watched part 3
basically anything can have a stand in jojo even a tree some stands are absolutely terrible and screw their users over like cheap trick or superfly

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SSB is just SS1 hair and SSG flame aura. That combined makes him have a blue aura. So if he was using SS2 in SSG, there would be sparks of electricity too. Good thing Blue Evolution isn't canon.

>zeed
>anywhere near Demonbane

You're missing the point entirely user. Regular humans like Krillin & Yamcha can gain enough power to nuke an entire planet through strength and mental training. Yes Saiyans have a much higher capacity, but in the end they still train for their strength the same way humans can, just at a higher level. In regards to SSG it's not really clear if Goku would have been that strong had he not endured all the training & battle experience he had beforehand. The original SSG didn't have any notable accomplishment & in the end was done in by other Saiyans who weren't even Gods themselves, so there's that.

Piccolo blowing up the moon in the saiyan saga before his powerups was incredible. So Krillin by the end of TOP is definitely a planet buster by now.

didn't he kill his past self and not die or something
that sounds pretty metal

Nothing, but why do you presume that would damage Saitama

Humans are canonicly more skillful than saiyans and are much better at making techniques

I know animals and plants have stands, I was asking if aliens and demons can have 'em too.

This. Because Goku stole most of his moves from others. Instant transmission from aliens, kamehameha from Roshi, ki blasts from Vegeta, UI from Whis training. And Vegeta has even less original moves. Dirty Fireworks is a Frieza move. Nearly the same one used on Krillin.

Absolutely true. It's thanks to Master Roshi's guidance that Goku was able to reach the level he's at now, and even Vegeta took cues from Earthlings such as hiding his power level. Humans are absolutely amazing at their techniques & are merely handicapped by their genetics. Fact of the matter is, humans would outclass Saiyans if they had a similar threshold for gaining strength. Fucking Tien would be an absolute monster if he had Saiyan tier genetics.

>I know animals and plants have stands

Nigga, there's a sword that has a stand in part 3. No, not there's a stand that is a sword, the sword is the stand user, and it's stand let's it control anyone that picks it up.

Let's analyze the powers of Zeedmillenniummon shall we.
>can freely travel thru space and time without any restriction
>multidimentional
>can manipulate the space and time at will, he could destroy it as well, which means that it can destroy an entire dimension/timeline
>generally just overpowered as it can get in terms of raw power
>super intelligent
>virtually indestructible, you cannot kill it just repel it
And that is on it's power suppressed by an unstable seal that once broken will unleash it's true powers, one wrong move and the seal will break, is said that if that happens then everything will be over, it will delete ALL digital or not everything will simply stop existing.

So Demonbane could just get locked into a never ending multiverse fight with it for all eternity.

What's funny is that with the right Digimon fusions you can create a brand new Zeedmillenniummon

Dragonball or GG?

Or if they lived longer, half the movie villains are millenia old demons or something similar that are as powerful as they are because they've been fighting for nearly the entirety of their long ass lives.

If King Kai didn't teach him the Spirit Bomb, Goku would've died by Vegeta, Frieza, some movie villains, Buu, Zamasu, and Jiren.
King Kai is the true hero we deserve.

the one where the guy kills his past self

I like Sol more ,but dbz characters are some serious bullshit so I have to give it to goku

I don't think you understand how broken Demonbane is, all of that is only a fraction of his abilities and then you have athleta aeternum.

I think they both have that kind of scenario if I'm not mistaken... although I didn't see the GG anime..

>Dirty Fireworks is a Frieza move. Nearly the same one used on Krillin.
What?
Frieza didn't even use a Ki blast to kill Krillin.

>spirit bomb

You mean the technique that only ever killed one person, that spirit bomb?

Now that one's a little weird. The only way I could see this one working is if Anubis was a Notorius BIG situation. Like, the original stand user died eons ago and his stand (which is the sword) lets his spirit control other people. Hell, what if the god Anubis IS the original stand user. Nothing saying ancient gods can't exist.

Frankly, Saiyans are fucking dogshit & never amounted to much outside of Broly, who was a literal mutant. Goku would have just been a braindead Saiyan that killed all life on Earth and never would have amounted to anything. Vegeta would have at best mastered Super Saiyan on his own and nothing else. All the power Goku & Vegeta obtained is entirely thanks to their interactions with the humans on Earth. The only thing Saiyans have going for them is raw stats & potential. Outside of that humans are far superior in the arts.

So frankly Saiyans are far from snowflakes, Goku & Vegeta simply had their hands held.

well one got btfo by a mook with a gun and the other got his ass handed to him by his pretty son in law

>>multidimentional
>>can manipulate the space and time at will,
Neither of these is true. Granted he can destroy space and time but he can't bend and shape it. As for being multidimensional, no that would imply that every Zeed is the same being when we know that isn't the case in the xros wars manga.

I mean the technique that distracts or weakens foes long enough for Goku to powerup/heal. And the catalyst to Ultra Instinct itself. The thing that splits immortal Zamasu apart. And one shots all movie villains who ate it.

Fightan monkey 4 best form, fuck the blue hair.

Attached: ssj4_goku_by_maffo1989-d4yomvv.png (900x1167, 586K)

Vegeta only keeps Goku around because he specifically pushes himself harder focusing on Goku's strength. If Goku wasn't around, that saiyan pride would've caused him to think he was always second in power under Frieza. (Even after he had his zenkai boost, Frieza killed him anyway)

wtf I fucking love Ky now

>Fightan monkey 4 best form,
Sure if you're a flaming faggot.

>Fictional universe
>Relativity being a thing

Stop being daft user, you have to measure dragon ball feats in newtonian physics.

Granted, if a charcter came alone in a universe that respected relativity, and said the character moved at 100-(1×10^-47)% the speed of light or something, then I'd give the win to the character over someone moving 5 times the speed of light from a newtonian physics perspective as it's probably a much large amount of force.

The only thing good to come from the trainwreck that is GT is SS4 Gogeta, period.

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Omega Shenron is fun in games

>Even after he had his zenkai boost, Frieza killed him anyway

When you see Vegeta, tell him I said, "Like a bitch."

Nah, they basically just turned him into Gotenks. That and he didn't even follow fusion rules in terms of design.

SS4 seemed really weak compared to Super Saiyan Blue on the regular. I don't think SS4 Gogeta could even handle Golden Frieza at full power.

Gold Cloth Pegasus Seiya could beat Goku.

SS4 Gogeta can destroy an entire planet in one shot at full power

So SS4 fusions are weaker than their fusees. After all anyone around ss1 tier can do that without using their full power.

Plenty of characters with bullshit powers can beat Goku, none of them have a powerset that's nearly as earned as Goku's though, who simply engages in strength training & meditation. Bullshit hax are a dime a dozen, but not many martial artists can boast having the amount of power that Goku does.

Nigger they all can do that.
Shit Fucking roshi could probably do that now.

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I think a statement we all can agree on.

That's pretty weak dude. In comic levels and DBZ levels.

Now lets add some Kaioken

Attached: SS4KK Xeno Gogeta.png (1040x1755, 2.59M)

All that work, to scratch Goku in super saiyan god?

It's a fusion, powerlevels are fucked.

>powerlevels are fucked.
In GT, sure.
Everything else has decent consistency.

goku's theme sounds like blazblueshit so he loses

But we're talking about Heroes

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>Hurr durr Ky can beat Goku
I swear to god Yea Forums is obsessed with overhyping vidya characters. I bet you're the same faggots that believe Doomguy and Samus stand a chance in the Saiyan saga.

When I say GT I mean everything pertaining to GT.

Enter, Jiren.

Attached: Jiren.jpg (601x410, 28K)

>Goku was literally breaking the universe from merely clashing fists with Beerus way back when he was just SSGSS
And yet that never happens again, even when vastly more powerful fighters than SSG Goku fist clash all the time

Attached: vegito vs zamasu.jpg (1280x720, 86K)

The op?

But can he kill Servants? Shall we...

DISCUSS?

>even when vastly more powerful fighters than SSG Goku
Not him but you're forgetting a Beerus there. Zamasu was nowhere near on par with him meanwhile you have Gogeta and Broly ripping the universe a new one.

This response is even worse than Medaka or Seiya

>Kenshiro
I always wondered why this guy's manga was considered shounen, he just goes in a fucking killing spree every single chapter
I guess 30 years ago thing were different