So when does it get fun?

As soon as you chuck it into the nearest dumpster where it belongs.

When you learn how to ISG/Bomb hover/Super Slide and see how creative you can get fucking around with sequence breaks. Even better in Majora's Mask where you can have all of the transformation masks before even entering Woodfall.

Nah m8

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I was having fun as soon as kid link left his house and I started exploring.

exploring was fun

PS1 and N64 era 3D is disgusting and hasn't aged well. Unlike Megaman X for SNES.

It teaches you the meaning of "overrated".
Also,"meme game"

> it gets good when you abuse glitches
utter state of nintoddIers

I used to like this as a kid, but nowadays it just doesn't "click" on me anymore...
It feels really, really boring. I dunno why.

Or almost anything on SNES. Bart's Nightmare is more fun than most PS1 era trash.

Nintendr*nes will defend Nintendo to the point of selfabuse.

This.
Fuck that game op,i got a fat cock you can suck on to pass the time

1998

It's the thing to do on subsequent playthroughs. If you haven't already gone through the game, you're probably a literal child. If you are actually of adult age and are shitposting on Yea Forums about this for attention, then you should probably just lie and claim to be a child.

FUCKING ZOOMERS.
GET THE FUCK OFF OF THIS WEBSITE.
THIS IS AN ADULT'S WEBSITE.

I'm playing it right now actually, just arrived at the Zora place or whatever. It's been ok so far, wouldn't call it great though. Some very questionable game design. Hopefully it'll get better once I start acquiring more items.

I like how there's never any actual complaints about the game in these threads, just vague complaints that lead absolutely nowhere. Contrarianism at its best

It doesn't.

Let's have some actual discussions. I don't think it's a perfect game by any means, but what are those "very questionable" design decisions?

>Zoomers

But I was an adult when OoT came out. I was old enough to see how bad the game was, meanwhile you were a child so you were too stupid to realize it.

It's pretty damn dated. But right around Castletown Hyrule it's pretty good.

The dungeons are an absolute bore though. I don't know, I just can't do it anymore.

It's you against the world, ol' buddy.

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Me against people 10-15 years younger than me, you mean. Sorry kiddos, your nostalgic games do not hold up.

Larping as a boomer doesn't make you sound any more intelligent. In fact, it just makes you sound pathetic.

Face it, OoT is universally considered to be an easy top 10 game, with many people going so far as to call it "best video game ever" (a title I don't think exists, but that's besides the point). OoT is objectively a masterpiece.

May I ask your opinions on Beethoven's 9th symphony and 2001: A Space Odyssey?

Get used to it, the public perception of OoT will only get worse as the years go on as more and more people age out of their 'nostalgia' phase and begin to perceive things with a more unfiltered lens.

In the 90s

That would require people to go seek out the game to play it, which will end up typically being enthusiasts, just like classic film. I don't think this will be the case. Look at the fucking reaction about FF7 despite the fact a bunch of the people involved in the conversations online never fucking played the original

the only thing i didn't like about OoT was how bland Hyrule Field felt after a while but that's more like a nitpick i guess. it's pretty much ace in every other regard.

>/vr/
Why talk about games with no relevance when appropriate board for them already exists?

There are no games as good as Beethoven's 9th Symphony or 2001 yet. Games haven't evolved to that point yet. And certainly, the crusty old relics from the PS1/N64 generation aren't even part of the conversation, no matter how strongly you felt about them as a child.

Arguably after Dodongo's Cavern, definitely by Forest Temple.

/vr/ here. We don't want your shitty N64 games either.

Can you quantify that?

I don't like ranking good things.
All things that are good are in the good category in my mind.

But to be clear, I wasn't insinuating that those works were on the same level. I was calling him a contrarian.

Most of the conversation around FF7 is around some animu girl's chest size. Clearly evidence of an immature medium.

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Dilate.

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Chill gramps

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A fair fight then

Your game is shit, m8

Absolutely and uniquivictly BASED 'God bless' Christian poster

OK, that's fair. I would put games like FFVII and OoT on the same level as popular Japanese cartoons. Not actually "good", but really beloved among 30-somethings who remember them fondly as teenagers.

you just might be deranged

I might also just be an adult.

Well dude, if I could point out what and where is exactly wrong I would.

But any "deep" analysis would make the post too long.

Thats not how eugenics works.

also women aren't smart.

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>”I don’t like this game.”
>lol fucking zoomers just don’t get it
you’re all retarded

>women aren't smart

Neither are men from the US.

Then how about /vg/?

>from the US
Don't stop with just us, retard. Wherever you're from is still full of fucknuggets and you know it.

>is only 32 years old
>would have been the prime demographic for OoT
>despite that, he was able to see that the game as the piece of shit it is

Why can't more of you millennial babbys be as smart as this?

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The US has the worst ratio of smart to stupid people in the world. A whole nation bred to be stupid by it's stupid government.

He also sucks ASS at the game.
He whines about having to wait, and his demonstrations include him TAKING OUT HIS HOOKSHOT ON A STALFOS AND STANDING IN FRONT OF A DEKU SCRUB.

I was better at the game when I was 9 fucking years old!!

This.

I had an N64 and OoT back in 1999, and I found OoT to be a dull waste of time. I was a teenager, and an edgy fick, so that may have played some role. But at that time, I also played Crash, Mario, older Zeldas and fucking Kirby. So who can say...

>He whines about having to wait

It's a valid complaint. There is too much dead air in OoT. Later Zeldas were much better about respecting the player's time. Well, some of them are. It did take Nintendo a while to get over that awful formula.

>the US government breeds people
And you say other people are retarded.

My only real complaints about OoT is "Cannot roll/evade in all directions", "This enemy constantly blocks", and "Where's the 2nd fucking stick for camera controls".

BotW would be much better if you could, you know, evade in all directions.

Assuming you are from the US (and judging by your immense asspain, what else could you be), yes, you are the way you are because your terrible government made you so. You're not a person, you're a product.

You're missing the point. He has to wait because he FUCKING SUCKS.
The game TELLS YOU that Deku Scrubs hide when you stand in front of them, and I can't even begin to fathom the stupidity it would take to think taking out a hookshot and just pointing it at a Stalfos is a good idea.

This faggot should have stuck to animation. He is awful at everything he plays and should be ashamed of himself.

Imagine being this retarded.

He might be awful at games, but he has good taste. You have to respect a millennial that hates Ocarina.

Post em

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All hail Vishnu

You should stop to wonder why you're so unhappy all the time. And I know you're unhappy - all American's are. It's because of your diet and your environment, both of which are the way they are because it's what your government wants. Unhappy people are good consumer sheep. They spend money. And they eat a lot. Ever wonder why there are so many fat fuckers where you live? It's not by accident. And they keep people dumb because dumb people don't ask questions. That's why your educational system is among the worst in the world. It's all by design. Why do you think the only descriptive word you know is "retarded"? That's your dumb mother's tax dollars at work.

>d tier& c tier
>the ds games
buddy you got them mixed up
i'm sure its was just a mistake

>ALBW
>Good
ZOOM ZOOM

You're right
They deserve to be on F and G tier respectively.

I disagree, the part of the game up until adult link is much more safe and therefore boring than the part afterward. I find the beginning of the game absolutely fucking awful but it gets less awful after the bloated introduction.

He didn't play it when it came out, only many years later.
He sucks at video games in general.
He cherrypicks to make the things he claims to enjoy look better than they are, and the things he claims to hate look worse than they are.
He is a huge faggot with a gigantic ego.

All of these problems add up to a shitty human being whose gripes with anything shouldn't be taken seriously.

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Imagine being this ass blasted about another country AND being this retarded.

>started the series with AoL
>like a game you don't
>h-hurr zoom zoom

Grow up.

I don't have anything against your country or its people. I pity them. They never stood a chance.

OoT fags will fight to the very end to protect their precious game. They don't seem to understand that it does not hold up in any way.

just shoot the old dog that is oot. Please. it wants to be put out of it's misery.

When you load the game up, retard

America owns the planet you dumb cuck.

>with a gigantic ego.

Sounds like you don't like him because a lot of other people like him. And because he doesn't like a game you cling to like a security blanket.

The country might. But not its people. Its people have nothing. They have less freedom than most other countries, yet they pride themselves on it. They are slaves.

Why is the Zelda fanbase so awful?

Call me when another game gets a 99, when two SquareSoft JRPGs on the SNES are the closest to surpassing OOT then you know gaming is dying

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- infrequent combat that is boring when it actually happens
- tedious puzzles
- overly linear world structure
- too much stupid NPC dialog
- "Guess how they implemented some realistic mechanic in 3D" replaces an orthogonal system used to build a variety of puzzles using a limited number of mechanics (aka game rules).

S: Adventure of Link
A: Majora's Mask
B: Breath of the Wild, Link's Awakening, Minish Cap
C: Twilight Princess, Ages/Seasons
D: Ocarina, Skyward Sword, Link to the Past, Phantom Hourglass
F: Wind Waker

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Autism

Second only to Sonic fans and tied with Pokemon fans.

What's your favorite Zelda game, user?

Every single game released in 2019 is better than Ocarina of Time. Even Just Dance 9 for the Wii. Context is everything.

Thank god your shitty opinions didn't get that get.

>Second highest on GameRankings behind Super Mario Galaxy

Remind me to never, ever trust a review from GameRankings.

When you stop being an insufferable shit-eating faggot

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Found the WWfag.

Glad to see Majora's Mask ranked so much lower than WW, BOTW, OOT & ALTTP. No idea why people circlejerk it so much

>calls OP a faggot
>jerks off to animu DiCaprio

I don't like him just cause he's a douchebag lol.

Can't deny the cocksucker is so full of himself that he literally adopted the word "ego" into his persona and online moniker.
Dude is fuckin nuts.

doesn't help his case anymore that he tried starting a hate bandwagon against the defacto GOAT for basically no reason other than to be a clickbait shitter desperate for attention. Dude has mental issues, get over it.

your time is up old man

Every human on earth has no freedoms.
Kill yourself or take your meds, just fuck off.

OOTfag actually. Sad to see you're such a contrarian you prefer Fedora's Mask.

> FF6, FF7 & FF10 all made the list
> FF9 didn't
Fucking defend this Yea Forums

>he tried starting a hate bandwagon against the defacto GOAT

You seem to suffer from delusions and paranoia.

Reminder that Ocarina of Time is philosophically rooted in a mix of Christian and Shinto themes so nu-soibois literally can't play it without getting triggered at every line of dialogue

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People who are 18 were born 2001

You've never been to another country outside of the United States. It's obvious. You get to figure out why.

>Contrarian
Not an argument. Why not try playing video games instead of just arguing about them on Yea Forums?

Funny because christcuckery is literally s󠛡oy: the religion

Even OoT stans know their game is shit. Otherwise, they wouldn't get so mad when you criticize it. If they were so confident in how great their sacred cow is, then their fortitude wouldn't be shaken every time somebody shit on it.

Dump on OoT threads always max out in replies. Because its fan are just that insecure.

It's mostly Ocarina and BOTW fans and the BOTW fans I tend to give a pass given that a lot of them are young and it's a very recent and popular game which has gotten a lot of shit unfairly. Fans of the interim Zeldas like TP tend to just be people with unfortunate taste but at least they can argue honestly about why they like their favorites. The older, pre-Ocarina Zeldas are legitimate masterpieces and are worth defending against retard meme criticism.

Ocarina fanboys are just pathetic and literally cannot handle criticism of their beloved game.

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kokiri forrest

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This isn't even a fucking reasonable assumption. You are literally retarded my man.

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>every line of dialogue
What if the game told its story through its world rather than pausing the world for several-minute long cutscenes chained into one-another? Wouldn't that be absolutely zany and wacky, not wasting the player's time like that?

>Hating on based Leo

Remain agitated

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Neither, would like to know why you think this though.

FF9 is massively overrated by its fanboys. Fans of FF9 aren't as bad as Ocarina fans but they're still pretty fucking deluded about how good their game actually is.

kill yourself

It's not an assumption. It's a fact. You have never been outside of the continental 48. You're still in your bubble. And you probably can't afford to get outside of your bubble due to how poor everyone in your country is. Another thing you can thank your government for.

FF9 is the Majora's Mask of Final Fantasy

Why do you talk about america like its the fucking dominican republic or some shit.

It seems like you've confused america with brazil or niger or some other brown shithole.

Not him, but the original without question. I probably appreciate it more now than I did when I first played it in the 80s. It's just an incredibly tight and well-designed game, with only a few minor flaws and weak points compared to its legacy (later games have better bosses, more items/enemies, etc.).

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It's only been neutered in recent years.

You think the crusades were about forgiveness and "turning the other cheek"?

You think the Spanish reconquista was about forgiving the heretical invaders?

Don't ignore history user.

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When you enter the Deku Tree. If you're not feeling it by then then you just have shit taste.

Brazilians live much happier lives than you. The fact that you think of other places as "shitholes" speaks to that. You've been brainwashed to believe that. And yet you're unhappy. You love your country. But you're unhappy. They make you salute the flag and praise God when you're too young to even understand what that means. And you grow up unhappy and you don't even know who to blame it on. Sometimes you blame women, sometimes you blame people with different skin color than yours. But never the responsible party. Because you're brainwashed.

Nonsense! Ocarina of Time is about Shabbos!

youtu.be/FLNy72Dj5YY

>Brazilians are happier

Good, keep them in the jungle then.

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Americans think they live in igloos, actually.

Arin literally flunked highschool

It's over, user. Our time has passed.

You're really delusional, man.
Every human on this planet is hellbound.

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And yet he's still smarter than you OoT faggots? Embarrassing.

No that's canadians.

That's what all little edgelord American teenagers who think they know everything say.

You're a real treat. Keep posting dumb shit.

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This: every time
oot fanboys need to shut up about that dumbass and focus on defending their game on whatever actual merit it has.

Damm, you are pure cringe. Do me a favor and go dig in your backyard until you find oil so we can bomb your neckbeard ass and take it from you.

Theres nothing to defend. Just cause that retard made a video on youtube with a lot of views, doesn't retroactively or proactively change anything. The people who agree with him are still in the minority.

It's true. American teenagers are little nihilists that think everything is shit and nothing's worth trying because everything's "fucked". Then they hit puberty, get jobs, get married, have children, and feel embarrassed about their cringey edgelord pasts.

Unless they're ugly fat fuckers who never move past that stage due to said ugliness and fatness. They stay mentally 13 forever.

>It seems like you've confused america with brazil

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Coming from a boomer probably.
You're describing 95% of Yea Forums users.

Don't blame him, it's his education. He can only me so smart.

The reason you're going to hell is because you have blatantly, deliberately ignored the truth for the past 9 years, and actively sought to do the complete polar opposite of the truth.

This has nothing to do with you being a nigger. It's simply because you're human.

When you grow a brain

I'm white and Hell isn't real. That's your brainwashing overriding your reason again.

You're black as the night, and as black as your final destination.

Just shut the fuck up, you're no good at this.

Ordinarily, I would be annoyed that a perfectly good shit on Ocarina thread has gotten sidetracked. But I'm always up for a good shit on Americans thread.

The sky where I live is blue. Your night sky being black is probably due to your country's pollution, which is why you also have the highest rate of cancer patients in the world.

When you stop being a cunt.

>If you play this trash again and abuse glitches, then it gets good!
I assume your favourite game is ride to hell: retribution then?

>implying japan doesn't have shit taste
cmon, these are the same people that love gacha shit

> Appeal to authority logical fallacy.

I was 15 when OOT came out and can confirm it wasn't even the best game in its own series when it came out (depending on your preferences the king of Zelda was either ALttP or Link's Awakening).

> Mostly empty world. Transiting Hyule Field is a boring chore.
> No challenge from enemy combat.
> Fewer and less complex levels at the expense of muh 3D graphics.
> A boring looping cut scene that gets replayed throughout the game
> An annoying fairy and owl that treat you like you are stupid.
> Any elements of the game that are decent are obviously borrowed from LttP.

It was babbys first Zelda wrapped in pretty graphics.

Goldeneye was the king of N64. But don't take my word for it, look at NA sales.
I

Okay zorgnoid from planetX. Whatever you say retard. You are going to die one day, ya know. For being as judgemental as you are, you'd think you would have had the the foresight to plan for the future. Instead, yours ends.

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thanks for the laugh and reminding me Yea Forums is full of retards like yourself

>said opinion about Zelda game is in the minority

Can't that be said about mostly every negative opinion on a Zelda game, outside of maybe SS, ST, PH? That doesn't make them wrong or right.

If anything can we all agree that the over worlds in 3D Zelda games are generally pretty lacking?

Come back faggot.
Tell me, what does your diet consist of?

>mostly empty world
I take it you HATE the original LoZ then? That world was even emptier. Hyrule Field is meant to feel big and expansive, and there are things to do. Cut bushes for money, fight Stalchildren and Peahats, jump into holes.

>no challenge from enemy combat
Stalfos? Iron Knuckles? Flare Dancers? You're generalizing all the enemies in the game.

>fewer and less complex levels
There are 8 dungeons and Jabu-Jabu, Forest Temple, Water Temple, Shadow Temple, and Spirit Temple are all complex sons of bitches.

>boring looping cutscene
You're gonna need to elaborate.

>annoying fairy and owl
Navi is overhated. Just don't talk to her and she won't bother you. The only really grating parts are in the Deku Tree, but that's kinda a tutorial so...
You're right about the owl though. Fortunately he doesn't appear for most of the adult section.

>elements of the game...borrowed from lttp
Not an argument.

>It's the thing to do on subsequent playthroughs.
The first zelda game is fun to sequence break and you don't need to abuse glitches to do it. If you buy the candle and the arrow, and get the bow from Level 1, you can go right into Level 8 and try to get the Magic Key that will let you unlock any door in the rest of the game for free.
You can also get the whistle (that lets you warp to completed dungeon entrances) from Level-5 and you don't need anything but bombs.
If you're clever enough to figure out the forest maze you can get the power bracelet and unlock the warp zones without even entering a single dungeon.

Of course, when I say "you" I don't actually mean (You) because you wouldn't be able to beat the Darknuts in those levels, but it's possible if you are good enough at the game as it is designed to be played.

>>no challenge from enemy combat
not that guy, but this is maybe a difficult one to articulate but it's easily one of the core problems with Ocarina vs [previous Zeldas].

Sure Ocarina does have some battles that can be tricky or somewhat challenging, and the style of combat is hard to compare directly. But the fact is that in the earlier Zelda games, you were constantly facing enemies of all different types and in all manner of scenarios, with difficulty gradually escalating as you played until you hit harder scenarios in the higher levels. Even if you're just passing through, you need to pay enough attention to evade the enemies, who have a variety of movement patterns and projectile attacks to be aware of. In Ocarina, combat is just something that happens occasionally and often just feels like one more puzzle to solve, but in a slightly more dynamic manner than the other puzzles. The game isn't populated with a great variety of interesting enemies that you're engaged with all the time, the way the earlier games are. As a result the game just feels empty and static to those of us who liked the earlier games.

And for a modern example, Dark Souls is a game that is densely populated with a wide variety of carefully placed enemies, and in that respect feels much more like the older Zelda games than Ocarina, despite the fact that its combat mechanics are more similar to Ocarina (enemies with shields, etc.).

When you play the randomizer

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>I take it you HATE the original LoZ then? That world was even emptier.
original LoZ is full of enemies that are fun to fight. You can just run around the world fighting the enemies and have fun doing it. In Ocarina you can just look at the scenery or poke around in bushes or fish and shit like that. Sure in terms of specifically implemented mechanics there's a lot more to discover in Ocarina. But in terms of doing anything that involves danger or skill it's empty.

>Later Zeldas were much better about respecting the player's time
This is the most retarded thing I have read on Yea Forums in the past five years that isn't just clearly bait. Fast food threads on /ck/ are more informationally accurate than this post. Have you been in a coma? Have you played the games? Do you just live off of the opinions of Youtubers?
>MM
>function of the game necessitates waiting for specific events to occur
>even in speedrun there are some times where the player literally just needs to wait for the time to hit X
>also has places like bottom of the well which are literal fetchquest timewasters

>WW
>Remake does a bunch of stuff to minimize downtime (and still isn't 100% successful) because the game is criticized for all of the MASSIVE FUCKING DOWNTIME
And even if you want to say "I meant in battle" then say no more than the counter system

>TP
>Once again, remake has to curb massive shit like teardrops
>Field dwarfs OoT's while being about as scant on content
>warping is somehow more time consuming than ocarina warps

>DS titles
>traveling around requires playing a minigame and waiting

>SS
>music notes, combat is centered around oftentimes waiting for a "tell", game makes you replay relatively long and boring fight 3X, items like the beetle are slow

There are all of four games that "respect the player's time" which are "recent," three of which, ALBW, Minish Cap, and Four Swords, are modeled after the classic games heavily. BOTW is to personal preference as to whether it wastes your time. Considering you can go straight to Ganon, I think it gets a pass.

Fun is just a buzzword.

Are you saying you got stumped by some things in OoT? I don't understand your last comment. Pushing blocks can be a bit slow, but the only Zelda games with more thought-provoking puzzles are the Capcom gameboy titles. I agree that the puzzles can oftentimes be a bit too straightforward. The game has very little required dialog and if you time out cutscenes, has very little time compared to other games. I do agree that any game with cutscenes that cannot be skipped is imperfect in that regard, sure.

I don't really see how the world is overly linear, though. Initially the game railroads you a tiny bit, but by the time you're an adult the world is fairly open and dungeon order is only suggested. It's far less railroaded than most of the series is, actually. I won't comment on the combat as calling it "boring" with nothing else doesn't leave me much to discuss. I think it's perfectly fine because few enemies have a lot of health. If they had more it would become tedious, yes. Most enemies can be killed extremely quickly if you know how.

Hey! Thanks doc!

Considering how easily these games are torn apart when discussing their flaws, maybe the series just isn't that good.

Not that guy either, but I agree that the focus of the games are different-- Zelda I requires far more engagement of enemies at a higher pace versus OoT, and OoT requires far more in the logic/spatialreasoning/puzzle/whateveryouwanttocallit department. LoZ therefore lends itself to subsequent playthroughs as you don't have to worry about cutscenes or anything of that nature slowing down a replay.

That said, it's okay to prefer Zelda I to OoT or prefer a more combat-focused title to one that lacks it. That isn't stating anything other than your preference for the one over the other. Only retards would say OoT's combat is anywhere as common or dangerous as LoZ's. That said, why the fuck are you comparing it to Dark Souls? They are not similar at all, nor would I consider LoZ's enemy placement to be "carefully placed" as rooms load in chunks instead of enemies aggroing as you approach. There's nothing "carefully placed" about a room with 5 blue darknuts and a bunch of blocks. Is it challenging? Yes. Does it reward careful play in several ways? (bombing, or tediously swording them, the benefit of full health, etc)? Yes. Is it like Dark Souls? No. Does Dark Souls feel like Zelda? No.

>Are you saying you got stumped by some things in OoT?
I'm saying that in Ocarina's puzzles often involve introducing some new mechanic to show off how cool it is to have a videogame in 3D wow so cool and then discards the mechanic to never be relevant again like burning spider webs with deku sticks or using blue fire to melt red ice or planting beans to grow a beanstalk in the future. These are all very specific mechanics implemented for very specific puzzles. Ocarina is full of that. The original LoZ is not. In the original game you should learn almost all the relevant mechanics in the first hour or so. The rest of the game is challenging you with new and clever challenges built from those those basic mechanics.

You're complaining that the game has variation. I agree that it could have done a better job implementing some of them in more interesting ways (blue fire is a great example there, user), but then you shit the bed and bring up LoZ which in no way challenges you with "new and clever challenges built from those basic mechanics" unless you want to argue that combat gets progressively more difficult as they give you harder enemies.

>That said, why the fuck are you comparing it to Dark Souls?
Just to emphasize that a 3D game with sword+shield combat doesn't have to be empty like Ocarina is.
>nor would I consider LoZ's enemy placement to be "carefully placed"
I was thinking more of ALTTP with that comment, where it's often easy to remember dozens of specific enemy locations. But fact is even in LoZ1 each room has a different assortment and configuration of enemies. The presence of Like-Likes and Bubbles make a huge difference when fighting Wizrobes, for example.
>That said, it's okay to prefer Zelda I to OoT or prefer a more combat-focused title to one that lacks it
No fucking shit. The problem is that when stating this as a criticism of Ocarina, most fanboys reliably have utter meltdowns and start sputtering about egoraptor or posting 5-star reviews and consensus rankings and shit.

No. He's complaining that the variation never exceeds the introductory level of difficulty because the mechanics are usually one-and-done in the game. Thus on the occasions they are used it's either explained by the fairy or a very obvious 'use the item you found in the dungeon to solve the puzzle.'

It gets fun like 20 years ago user. Same with every other Zelda game outside of BotW they age worse then pedophile asshole in prison. Truth is they never really were that good to begin with, there just wasn't much else worth a fuck for the console(s).

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Well I have to just fundamentally disagree with you bringing up Dark Souls as a way to show anything about Zelda, as the game is devoid of content besides combat and that isn't the game OoT was even attempting to be. Hell, nor were any of the Zelda titles. Leaving it at "Hyrule Field was empty" and maybe following it up with "what exploration did exist there didn't adequately reward the player" would have been better. As for stating it as a criticism of Ocarina, I agree that fanboys are going to fanboy. I agree that the game has flaws. I disagree that it's a very valid criticism that the game isn't Dark Souls with enemy density because that's clearly not what the game is attempting to be. Also, having rooms of enemies be difficult is not carefully placed, dude. LTTP's certainly are at a higher density than OoT's, yes. Both handle enemy placement relatively similarly, but LTTP forces the player to immediately engage with enemies as a regular obstacle more often. I don't think this would have worked well on the overworld in the same kind of way as it would have made traveling a pain in the ass, but I agree that dungeons could have used slightly more aggressive placement of enemies.

There is a gradient of complexity for elements within the game, even within the spider web example he brought up. Read his post again. He clearly says that it doesn't come back. You can argue that the puzzles are too simple in nature and I may agree with you, but he undermines his own argument by claiming LoZ somehow does. Is there a game in the series with puzzles you think are superior so we can discuss those?

When you put self limitations on yourself and try to play the game in a hard mode.

>oZ which in no way challenges you with "new and clever challenges built from those basic mechanics"
Except it does.
For one example: In the early dungeons, you can look at the map to predict where walls can be bombed. But it's entirely optional, and will just net you some shortcuts or let you avoid using keys that you can save for later.
In Level-4, there's only one room you can bomb in the entire dungeon, but this time the room is not on the map and you have to predict it from looking at the shape of the map and guessing that maybe there's a room in that odd empty space.
Then, in Level-5, your progress will wind up blocked by an unkillable boss and you actually need to bomb open a wall early in the dungeon in order to get the item needed to beat the boss.
Finally, in Level-7, you have a very large level with lots of bombable walls but also dead-ends, wrong turns, and fewer keys than locked doors. Level-7 really encourages you to pay attention to where you are and where you've been and what doors and walls you've checked.

Then of course you have the 2nd quest where the Level-9 dungeon is a maze where almost half the rooms are "wrong way" rooms to get lost in, it's a far more difficult maze than anything in the first quest. But the only new mechanic there is the secret wall which is introduced near the beginning of the 2nd quest.

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>Well I have to just fundamentally disagree with you bringing up Dark Souls as a way to show anything about Zelda, as the game is devoid of content besides combat and that isn't the game OoT was even attempting to be
lol stop being a retard Dark Souls has more than just content. Sure it doesn't have gay puzzles and the NPCs are cryptic and not as faggy as Ocarina NPCs, but it has a very compelling world design.

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This, i've played everything & OOT is still the greatest game i've ever played

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Pre-time skip is oke but it really picks up around Fire and especially Water Temple once your loadout picks up.

About seven years in.

>I disagree that it's a very valid criticism that the game isn't Dark Souls with enemy density because that's clearly not what the game is attempting to be
well the problem is that
(a) enemy density was in earlier zelda games meaning there was an unmet expectation when the game was released
(b) combat is the only part of the game where you really ever reach a potential failure state. So many of the basic mechanics (Link's health, weapons, equipment, etc) are built around a game about survival and combat, not just solving colorful puzzles. It is reasonable to criticize the game for lacking it, even if it was intended to make the game more accessible to people who died to octorocs.

Those are all using bombs the same exact way. You realize that I can say "Yes, I agree with you" that LoZ does those things but then at the same time OoT does the same exact types of elevations of elements even if it's only within the same area or dungeon. You're either saying one of two things at this point:
>The game was too easy for me
Okay, but that isn't a valid criticism leveraged at the game
>The game doesn't reuse existing elements enough
Because it introduces other elements, and even then it depends totally on how pedantic one wants to be within this context. Taking your same example of bombs within OoT, they go from...
>learn how to use them
>learn how to use positioning to get around timing (opening the Cavern)
>a more difficult version of that within the cavern
>Use them to break open walls
>Learn to use them in chain reactions
>Bombs progress from ones only in set locations to ones you can pull anywhere to ones that travel in the direction you put them down, complete with minigame that coincides with them
And at the end of the day you can say, "but I didn't find it compelling" and that's fine. But it exists and to arguably a greater complexity than LoZ. Drop the example and criticize OoT wholesale. Your comparison is dogshit.

There were no previous 3D titles and it coincides far more with out LTTP handles enemies within dungeons. Density is different because the entire medium is different. Yes, I agree that combat could have been more challenging.

Combat isn't the only way one can reach failure state and all Zelda games can be bruteforced. Failure in Zelda is getting stuck as to where to go. OoT is easy, yes. I agree. It should have been more difficult. One can drown, burn, fall down pits, take fall damage. There are timed events like the escape from Ganon's tower as well. In fact, it has more failure states from non-combat than most of the other titles do.