What was stopping them from putting K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo in Smash 4?

Sakurai is legitimately the only person on the planet that needed the ballot to figure out who should be in smash.

>Rosalina
>Palutena
>Wii Fit Trainer
>Duck Hunt
>Shulk
>Corrin

Pac-Man, Little Mac, and MegaMan were fantastic. Villager was nice. Greninja and Robin were fine. The above list genuinely has me scratching my head though. I get that DuckHunt and WFT are both occupying the respective "Retro" and "Nobody Expects" reps just as IceClimbers/G&W and Pit/ROB did before, but so many of those Smash 4 inclusions felt like "fluff" rather than actual substance. It's like if the bulk of Ultimate's newcomers all carried Isabelle level's of hype.

Good thing Nintendo had more of a hand in the DLC selection. Based on the reactions someone poking Sakurai in the right direction was for the best.

Sakurai likes to have his meme picks every now and then, but for the most part he does try to listen to fan demand.
It's just that before the Smash ballot Nintendo was completely out of touch with what fans wanted. They legitimately did not know people liked K. Rool.

I heard Palutena actually had a huge following in Japan, to the point where some people deeper into the roster speculation were convinced she was a guaranteed newcomer.

Sakurai chose Rosalina specifically for the puppet fighter gimmick. She never had a lot of demand from the smash fanbase, but he probably figured she was popular enough among the Mario fans that nobody would mind.

Smash 4 was on a weak console, and some of the best cast members were cut. They had to be in when EVERYONE WAS HERE

K. Rool? He was kind of an underdog at the time
Ridley? Sakurai had size issues with him
Banjo? Do I need to tell you why Banjo couldn't be put in then?

Because they were left behind for non meme choices
youtu.be/vMvgKqMWAlg

Nintendo probably sees him as a lesser Bowser, a big reptile antagonist with an army of smaller reptile variants to the protagonists. Hence to them he was always a lesser priority even to the DK games.

I think Shulk was a pretty cool pick, and has a fun gimmick. XB1 wasn't that big before Smash 4 and barely even got an US release. I wish we got more first/second-party one-off picks like that instead of focusing on padding out franchises already in the game.

I honestly don't see how the Greninja choice is better.

If you want to see how out of touch Nintendo was just look at Mario Kart 7 cutting out Waluigi in favor of Wiggler and Honey Queen.
I know Waluigi gets shit here but that was genuinely baffling.

Nintendo did not have the good enough relationship they have with Microsoft now back then.

Same reasons as to why Banjo Kazooie was considered a "never ever"
>iRrElEvAnT!!!!!!
>dEaAAHD IP!!!!
>lEgAl IsHSuESZsz!!!
>ObSCuRE aF
>nOt JApANeSE!!!
>bOoMeR nOsTaLgAfAGGGahaioaskhsuxlsj
Now they're doing the same shit with Geno. Really wonder what's going to happen this time.

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K. Rool didn't get in because Smash 4's newcomer lineup for the first party characters was heavily reliant on Wii and 3DS games that were prominent when Sakurai locked down the roster back in early 2012

>Punch-Out!! Wii
>Animal Crossing: City Folk
>Xenoblade Chronicles
>Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2
>Wii Fit
>Kid Icarus Uprising
>Fire Emblem Awakening
>Pokemon X & Y

Duck Hunt was pretty much the only new Nintendo character whose inclusion wasn't based on a recent game, and he was meant to be Smash 4's "surprise character". Donkey Kong Country Returns was the most relevant DK game released at the time of Smash 4's project plan, so naturally K. Rool wasn't priortised.

Ridley was just because Sakurai was really autistic about him being a giant boss monster at the time.

Their last shred of dignity

>Now they're doing the same shit with Geno. Really wonder what's going to happen this time.

They'll bring his costume back and call it a day

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It could happen eventually considering Geno has been requested for so long but I don't really think B-K and Geno are comparable.

BK was a flagship franchise for one of Nintendo's most beloved and acclaimed home consoles. Geno is a side character from a late ass spinoff SNES game. Come on son.

Sakurai literally said that Ridley was too big for Smash. There was a whole meme on miiverse about it, Bigley.

>he didn't know who I wanted so he is retarded

get over yourself

These and other replies like it. Sakurai's boner for not including popular characters when he was being interviewed back in 2006 showed when Brawl released but really became public with Smash Four having a bunch of recent picks and left-fielders but most of the fan favorites reduced to assist trophies, and note that this is Japan. Very rarely did Sakurai mention the west at the time. What you get here in Yea Forums is no different from what 2ch has. Another example, note how Dixie was relevant enough and fit all the criteria Sakurai put on the roster but was absent last game and this game. Again, Japan was the focus for most of the series. Only now did the west get observed, case in point Ridley being for the western fans, specifically being mentioned by Sakurai last E3.

I hate going back to Smash Four's waiting period but it needs to be pointed out, it was a shitshow from start to finish. If nothing else, being loud is what got Rool, Riddles and Banjo in so I say keep at it.

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The joke is that Banjo is barely more relevant or more well-liked than Geno so why the fuck not add him in. Adding in Banjo pretty much is an admission of "anything goes". We could see the most random newcomers and they'd fit right in.

>Another example, note how Dixie was relevant enough and fit all the criteria Sakurai put on the roster but was absent last game and this game.

Well, no. Like what pointed out, DKC Returns (which only featured DK and Diddy) was the most recent DK game out when Sakurai planned Smash 4's roster in early 2012, and he most likely didn't know anything about Tropical Freeze's existence back then. And for Ultimate, well, everyone voted for K. Rool, and they weren't going to have two unique DK characters in a game with such a small lineup.

What stopped Ashley form being added in Smash 4 and in Ultimate?

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Geno wasn't the star of his own franchise. I don't ever want to see you complain about piranha plant if an actual nobody like Geno gets in.

>DKC Returns (which only featured DK and Diddy) was the most recent DK game out when Sakurai planned Smash 4's roster in early 2012
Yet Sonic got a stage based on Lost World. I don't buy it. Look how much it took just to get a third rep for DK.
>And for Ultimate, well, everyone voted for K. Rool, and they weren't going to have two unique DK characters in a game with such a small lineup.
Horseshit, I repeat: there was no need for fans to scream, shout and stuff a suggestion box just to get an obvious addition to a series, let alone A addition to a series. Sakurai is really that out of touch.

Short answer, Sakurai didn't understand what the fans wanted as fighters. Banjo aside, because that was thanks to Jew$soft.

There is unused data for Dixie in Brawl. Sakurai mentioned the original concept for Diddy's character was to have them swap like in DKC2.

Obviously the Microsoft barrier is a big deal but other than that Banjo is one of the most obvious 3rd party picks considering his Nintendo history. He was basically a Nintendo character during the N64 days.

For all we know, maybe Sakurai has no plans to EVER add Ashley

The OP question centers around Banjo, Ridley, and K. Rool because it's questioning what about their situations have changed from Smash 4's development to Ultimate's. Can't really compare Ashley to that.

Being a minor character within a side character's spinoff of a spinoff series

A couple of things.
>K. Rool only started to gain traction near the start of the ballot, he was pretty much dead on the water for everyone for the main roster, same with Banjo due to people didn't thought that MS would play ball
>Ridley was always an issue in implementing him, he was added once Sakurai figured out a way to put him without compromising his size too much as he is still the biggest character
>For the DLC the main focus of it was to bring characters new to the game and frankly Cloud and Ryu alone shit all over Banjo, K. Rool and Ridley combined
>Corrin was a pick due to them wanting to show a character from a new game
>Bayonetta despite the rosterfags autism was a popular oick during the ballot and at the time she had Bayo 2 released on the Switch which was also nominated to various GOTY awards
>Lastly because Sakurai likes to mix it up a lot regarding roster choices to keep the roster interesting. You always have popular picks with the fandom, popular picks with the general public, new franchises, old franchises, odd picks and Fire Emblem.

I know that, hence why I brought her up. I guess something in Sakurai's mind said she can't be in unless she has that swap out gimmick.

Unique skeletons that couldn't be recycled for Anime Swordfighter 12

>For the DLC the main focus of it was to bring characters new to the game
Then why were Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy among them?

No excuse for Smash 4 but I'm guessing K. Rool brushed her aside for Ultimate. Some people bring up making her an echo but I don't think that would really work unless it includes some heavy alterations like Isabelle.

Veterans, I was talking more about newcomers and I think new franchises sans FE would have been better

I'd be fine with her using Diddy's skeleton and then having a few unique animations and her Up-B being her hair copter, or just her being an echo. Anyone but fucking Chrom.

Dixie, to me, feels like the perfect candidate for a "semi-clone" like Isabelle and Dr. Mario. I'm glad that Echo Fighters finally have a distinguishing category and aren't just grouped with normal fighters like before, but I still wish semi-clones had more clear rules as well. Dr. Mario was grouped with Dark Pit and Lucina on the Smash 4 select screen.

Smash Four could have benefited from two more of those dessert options in my opinion. And if I remember correctly, weren't Lucina and Dark Pit were actually different from their counterparts, mainly Lucina?

>Ashley
>minor character

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>The OP question centers around Banjo, Ridley, and K. Rool because it's questioning what about their situations have changed from Smash 4's development to Ultimate's.
And the situation of those characters didn't change at all.

>Can't really compare Ashley to that.
Why not? Because of hindsight?

Dark Pit had a different side special, different arrows, and a different Final Smash

Lucina's sword (which has an impact on every single attack she has) functions differently than Marth's. Marth's deals the most damage at its tip, while Lucina's deals the same amount of damage no matter which part of her blade strikes the opponent.

All three had some slight differences from their base character.

Is this Four or Ultimate? I didn't have Four for long so I couldn't compare them correctly. I know Doc is literally Melee Mario.

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Better question: what was stopping them from putting a new Kirby rep in 4 AND Ultimate?

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Shut the fuck up.

Dr. Mario is a weird case. He's the only character that uses the same attributes as another, but with an external multiplier.
He had some unique moves, but for the most part he was basically Mario with custom equipment permanently equipped.

Besides Ridley they have no games.

We need more anime swordsmen

No one is a better authority on how many playable reps Kirby deserves than Sakurai. If he thinks the series is fine at 3, then that's it.

Dedede is the best possible rep for Kirby anyways. Don't need nobody else.

Kirby is no longer Sakurai's baby. Pic related has already surpassed him as Kirby's director.

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lol

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Somebody else is slightly better at making braindead baby games than sakurai. What an achievement.

Seething Sakurai fan

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The doc notes are taken from 4, so there are actually more differences now. The Ultimate pages doesn't list their differences, or at least didn't when I made this.

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Just someone that sees your boring ass stale series for what it is.

>Sakurai-sama isn't making kirby so it sucks!

Because there’s nowhere near as much demand for a Kirby newcomer as there was for DK one. Kirby has every major character already in the Smash
>inb4 player 4 hat goomba

Shimomura Kirby is the best.

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Correct

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Oh, she's a minor, alright, if you know what I mean.

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based

We have an actual goomba now. There's no excuse.

> N64
> one of Nintendo's most beloved and acclaimed home consoles
It sold like shit compared to NES and SNES and didn't do well in Japan. Even Saturn was a hit over there.

This is what happens when you don't have any RPG's

Sakurai didn't have the poll

You're crazy or a legit zoomer if you don't think the N64 has a huge loyal fanbase despite its tiny library.

>Rosalina
I thought in general people liked Rosalina?

Yeah

It clearly isn't "one of Nintendo's most acclaimed home consoles" if it did poorly overall

Just because it had games like Mario 64 and OOT, doesn't mean that it was a Financial success. PS1 fucked it over big time, and Nips didn't care much about it, prefering Saturn of all things.

ive heard somewhere that his first model was literally made from the king koopa design from super mario bros super show. just added a coked out wonky eye and called it a day.

I think he means he wasn't expecting Rosalina, and neither was I. Smash Four in general had an increase in characters like that. Palutena was definitely Sakurai feeling himself, so much so he had to hide Dark Pit's confirmation.

Why not? Nintendo was shoving her into everything at the time and Smash was running out of mainline Mario characters to add.

Piranha Plant was added as the game's "surprise" character, a surprise in that they added a mook as a playable character. It's meant to be a special case.

Silly, we've always had meme choices since Jigglypuff. Dunno what that has to do with shameless nobodies like Corrin being picked over fan-demand though.

> Mainline Mario
Why does that matter? Fuck off Rosashit shiller

To be fair, only Brawl onward should count when you're talking about how long it took a third party to get in, since the first two were solely Nintendo.

>Sakurai's stubbornness and burning desire to please nip fans

Ayumi Tachibana
>hhaahaha (raffs) nooo faakauuu nipponji she's not in the west....

Takamaru
>hahaha yeah he has a game in the west but he's not so popular in the west faakkka u again

little mac
>RITTLE MAKKU HORY SHIT PUT HIM IN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

As in, introduced in main Mario platformers, not the billion party/sport/kart/RPG titles.

Little Mac deserved a spot regardless of anything. You faggot.

>running out
Toad
Shadow Mario
Wart
>mainline
Fuck that.
>Midbus
>Paper Mario
>Fawful
>Waluigi

Square Enix are notoriously stubborn and protective fucks, that's why it took so long to get Cloud and later Hero.

Jigglypuff wasn't even a meme choice, it was chosen because of anime popularity and being easy to develop due to being based on Kirby.

>Toad
Fair enough, but then people will bitch about Hat Goombas
>Shadow Mario
They don't need more Mario clones
>Wart
Should have at least said Birdo.

> Comparing fucking Bandana Dee to Toad
Fuck off zoomerfaggot

Palutena has a cool design so I was happy when she was announced. Shame she was so bland to play though.

Not really, he was fine as an assist

>smash is supposed to be a celebration of Nintendo all stars
>I'm-fucking-plying Punch-Out!! is not a huge part of Nintendo history
Out, child.

>Ridley
TOO BIG and they also give no fuck about metroid

>K.Rool
"retired" character by the nintendo higher ups (miyamoto included), ballot shown that people still liked him

>Banjo
M$ relations werent as tight, the Xbone wasnt considered 100% a failure yet, so Banjo was essentially off-limits like Kratos is to Sony.

Are you saying that being an assist trophy isn't supposed to be a celebration of characters? He's still in the fucking game retard.

>They don't need more Mario clones
Confirmed for not playing Sunshine.
>Birdo
Hahahaha
Ha.

>Are you saying that being an assist trophy isn't supposed to be a celebration of characters?
because it isn't, soz hun~ uwu

I mean why specify Shadow Mario when you can have Bowser Jr?

Nobody fucking cares about assist trophies.

Sakurai cares

Sakurai says otherwise, being an AT is an honour in of it itself.

> DUH ONLY PLAYABLE MATTERS! ASSIST IS A SLAP IN THE FACE!
This is you right now, fucking ungrateful sperg

>DUH ONLY PLAYABLE MATTERS!
>ASSIST IS A SLAP IN THE FACE!
you say these like they're wrong??? idgi????

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Why are there many being upset that certain characters are assist trophies and want them playable?

Dark Samus became playable because of fan demand and she was an AT before, they clearly care retard.

Autism

>i dont agree with you therefore it's autism
typical

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Shadow Mario: Paintbrush and teleportation, utilization of the paint monsters
Jr.: See Smash Four/Ultimate

>being an AT is an honour in of it itself.
Is that why they can be turned off like a regular item? Only the faggots here can bring them up like we are now, the casuals don't know or care about those characters.

Reminder that Whispy Woods is the true 4th main character of Kirby.
Reminder that the everyone in the series that isn't these 4 has fucking terrible staying power.
Reminder that Kirby isn't getting a 4th rep, and it's for entirely rational reasons.

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Assist trophies are pointless. They have the same importance as a special thanks which is to say none at fucking all.

> the casuals don't know or care about those characters.
Who in the right mind doesn't know the ghosts from Pac-Man?

Nice to dodge what I wrote retard

Be happy Isaac or whatever shitty character is in the game retard, other characters have been assist before and are now playable, would you say that it was "a slap in the face" for them too?

Retard

The ballot responses weren't being taken into account for Smash 4's DLC and by the time they had them, Ultimate planning was already underway and just about ready to begin development. They weren't going to do then as DLC because they knew the Wii U was on the chopping block so there's no real point in continuing it after Bayonnetta if the system was going to be dead soon. Better to put that work towards Ultimate since it was going to come out earlier in the Switch's life and thus would have a far longer life for itself.

Today you'd be surprised. And one or two assists means nothing compared to the rest. Show me where casuals know who Gray Fox, Sukapon or even Isaac and Stafy are.

>Be happy
Why? Why should a core fan be happy with a scrap when he could have more?

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Geno is a one off party member who's rights are at least partially owned by Square Enix. Are you fucking serious? At least your average Nintendude knows what a Banjo is

>Be happy Isaac or whatever shitty character is in the game retard
why? assist trophies are literally useless, a consolation prize for not being good enough to be a fighter

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Why are certain character who was AT before now playable?

Think before you type retard

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this
there's a reason this pic was on Green Greens

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because they realized they actually were worthy of being a fighter

Sure showed them with a wojak that doesn't even make sense to reply with.

You'd have a point if ATs were well implemented and not literally the worst fucking use of an assist cast in any fighting game ever.

You have an astronomically small chance of ever having your most wanted who is an AT help you in a fight. And that's IF you constantly play with items on, which none of us do.

Three characters, one being an easy clone and another...a clone.
Basically slap them on an existing character and be done with it.
I repeat, why accept scraps when you can have more?

it was to save them from the cancer that was smash 4

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smash 4 was so fucking bad

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Yuga, Daroach, and Elma should have got in instead. At least they don't have full-blown autism like

Roolfag, but I was cheering for Isaac.

>Gets blown the fuck out
>concedes like a bitch
Joke's on you, Yuga is on my list.
>Only one character got in and it was the literal never ever

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>these two different people that called me out on my autism must be the same person even though the IP counter went up!
Good job

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Probably nothing. You just have to make some arbitrary decisions sometimes.

The second and third part of that chart describes you perfectly.
>I don't like the assist trophies
>BE HAPPY YOU ENTITLED FAGGOT
Keep at it though, this is great.

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>Genofags are still trying to coattail ride

I love how the narrative went from
>"RIDLEY AND K ROOL AND GENO ARE THE TRIFECTA SO GENO IS DEFINITELY CONFIRMED"
to
>"RIDLEY AND K ROOL AND BANJO AND GENO ARE THE QUADFECTA SO GENO IS DEFINITELY CONFIRMED"

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>reading comprehension

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>crocodile
>leather suitcase
What did he mean by this?

Nope, Sakurai said that the reason he added Plant, is cause the roster is full of protagonist & he wants to add something new, like Plant, so it opens the door for Koopa's & Octorok's.

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To be fair, Geno kinda was actually part of the trifecta. Banjo was basically off the table for most people because he was owned by Microsoft so while they may have wanted him, they didn't even bother bringing it up because at the time, it was a literal impossibility. Geno was on the plate because Sakurai expressed interest in the idea before and Snake opening the door for third party actually gave him a chance. NEVER EVER was never said because it couldn't be done. It was said because Nintendo had the ability to make it happen but had zero interest in doing so. In that respect, Geno actually was the original third NEVER EVER. Then the Nintendo/Microsoft talks started at E3 and everything changed. All of the folks keeping relatively quiet about Banjo saw new hope as he became an actual possibility but due to various concerns (similar to those surrounding Geno) he still seemed like it wasn't likely. Banjofags suddenly waking up kind of knocked Geno to the sidelines.

I say this all as a Banjofag myself. I always wanted him but I kept largely quiet about it and focused more on characters that were within Nintendo's reach. Then we got Ridley, heard about the Microsoft talks, got Simon, Richter, and K. Rool and Banjo jumped from literally impossible to a straight up lock in my book and sure enough, we got him.

Nah fuck off, it's always been Ridley/Rool/B-K. Genofags and Isaacfags were just desperate to muscle themselves in.

>it's always been Ridley/Rool/B-K
This is some grade A revisionism.
K. Rool and BK's support took a massive dive during the Brawl era. It wasn't until the Smash Ballot that their support took off, mainly because others, like Ridley, were already crossed off the list by being NPCs in Smash 4.

>Accusing other of revisionism while claiming that Banjo and Rool only started with Smash fucking 4

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BK support has always been pretty niche to begin with.

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Nigga, K Rool's support during Brawl speculation was nothing compared to the Smash Ballot campaign.
There was a bigger outcry over Krystal being snubbed than there was for K Rool, to the point where Sakurai had to justify Wolf as an easy to make clone.

>Banjo
>Brawl
Lmao'ing, Banjo in 2007 was about as likely as adding the Ghostbusters, he had no serious support

Excuse me, you're missing someone.

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Didn't this image include Banjo at first?
Revisionist history at its finest.

Actually it was always Geno, but in the last six months, Steveposters edited it to piss off Banjofags.

>Just because Ridley got in doesn't mean King K Rool is getting in. IRRELEVANT!!!
....
>Just because King K Rool got in doesn't mean Banjo Kazooie is getting in! DEAD IP!!!
.....
>Just because Banjo Kazooie got in doesn't mean Geno is getting in. DEAD CHARACTER!!!!!

......its like poetry folks.

based anti tards