What makes this game so controversial?

It's story is absolute dogshit.

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That's not the image I posted.

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SMTfags upset that friendship made it into their edgy apocalypse game, and refuse to accept that it's the best game in the series

friendship is dogshit in any game that doesn't let you pick your own group. The only reason it works irl is because you can tell people you don't like to fuck off.

muh friendship and muh fanservice
It was funny though

nothing
it's just a single sand nigger complaining about the depiction of Krishna.

I'm not against it, but make it a proper option!
>downsides of genocide:
"everyone dies and you should feel bad" with party members, hipster leader and scarred guy conga line
Steve-o says messiahs will hunt you
Flynn is like "IDGAF about the hook"
whoever you choose will be a brainwashed puppet
>Downsides of Friendship
...

Even revived Asahi as a freebie because it's forbidden to have friend deaths in Tokyo 20XX

I am nearly the end of the game and this is my favorite SMT above 4 and Nocturne. I really liked the characters, story (also some unexpecting twists it has) and setting. Nocturne still has the besy music and atmosphere however. Still, I am enjoying it almost as much as Persona 5 (my favourite Atlas game).

nice bait, I might have fallen for it without the persona 5 bit but that's a little over the top

I didn't really like the story that much but the two things I hated the most were:

- There was no Divine Powers route
- That fucking final dungeon.

Shit characters mainly.
>Nanashi gets treated like the fuckin' chosen one even more so when Dagda cuts his power, Nanashi doesn't immediately drop dead, which he should, but somehow is able to fight and kill him. Only for them to created a brand new Dagda on the spot with a completely different personality.
>All his friends suck his dick constantly (bar Gaston)
>The kill your friends or not choice is the most watered down "major" choice in the entire mainline SMT, being relegated to a single choice 30 min before the end. Plus then throwing all these major players out of nowhere, with very little build up, (Satan and Stephen) to bullshit a fight with YHVH (who's now been torpedoed as a threat). The fight itself was great, the story to get to that fight wasn't.

I also wasn't a fan of how streamlined the quests were, which in turn made exploring pretty linear because there was no reason to go back to old areas unless the story deemed it so.
The quest rewards were also shit with most rewards being money, then some being a choice between useless weapons. At least SMTIV gave you armour, but then Apocalypse's base armour had no weakness so there's no incentive to switch anyway.

The best thing about Apocalypse was it's combat and how it vastly improved smirk. Which is straight up fantastic and adds another layer to the combat. Even though most of the characters were annoying as fuck character wise, the partner system was also way better and has room for improvements like partners in battle could change your alignment/route etc.

SMT Apocalypse is a great game until someone opens their mouth

Downsides of friendship: Literally nothing is actualy resolved. You get a supposedly happy ending where all your friends are alive and safe and whatever, but the problems that caused Dagda and the Divine Powers to start stirring shit up are still there, which means someone's going to start shit again later on. So it's a choice of whether you're willing to accept the shallow pandering that papers over the fact you didn't actually solve anything, or the ending where you do what's necessary to actually enact needed change?

I prefer it beacuse it deals with a lot of society problems. That's also the reason why I put Persona 3 and 4 below SMT games (wasn't that interested in the murder plot and inner problems but liked the law vs chaos dichotomy)

we're even, ended up killing all of them anyway.

>SMT Apocalypse is a great game until someone opens their mouth

Truer words were never spoken.

It mostly deals with problems that arise in japanland. If someone acted like kamoshida in the west he'd lose his job before he could utter a single word of defense.

This, I could have forgiven her if she'd been straight about it from the outset, but proclaiming that she follow me no matter the choice only to stab me in the back 5 seconds later is inexcusable.

This is what i thought. Every thread ita the same
>mub story
Despite it having one of the best stories in the series.

>SMT3 is a lonely, misanthropic, and isolated journey through the post apocalypse
>all 5 of surviving human characters are either power hungry assholes or up their own ass with how their reason is correct and everything else is wrong
>you get the most sensible endings by either rejecting the reasons of all the others and reverting the world to the way it was before (neutral)
>or you completely forsake your humanity, destroy all the humans and their reasons and become a demon as strong as Lucifer himself (true demon)
>SMTIV apocalypse has you defeating the YHVH with the power of friendship which is a complete reversal of the tone set in the prior game
I still enjoyed SMTIV but not as much as 3 for that reason

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Toki having an orgasm right in front of everyone

best part of the game right there

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I'm just glad they brought back Navarre,even as a meme character.When I played 4 for the first time I thought he was going to be the Chaos representative instead of Walter.

Some people aren't able to speak up for various reasons however and even if they do it will take a long while before an action is taken, and that is the main problem in society imo.

>Complaining about Chaos slut and your dog instead of Nozomi
BANANACAKES
RADICAL DUDE
I TOLD EVERYONE'S YOURE A DEMON CORPSE
DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH
FUCK YOU NANASHI

Those people need to actually physically fight back. Doing nothing is still a choice.

>I dont know why she is a horny bitch all of the sudden
You'll get the answer, at least
I just finished the game the other day. Dagda is a cool dude but honestly he's just bitching about bonds the entire game. You'll have humans banding together and fixing shit and he'll just go
>LMAO LOOK THOSE WEAKLINGS THINKING BONDS WILL DO ANYTHING
while, in fact, they do something all game. That's why I couldn't bring myself to murder everyone when I got the chance, even though I feel bad about Dagda getting replaced by a more timid version. I seriously don't know why but that part just really made me feel bad for some reason.

>If you see anyone complain that the final boss "came out of nowhere,"
Honestly it feels a bit like that in the light route, since killing him isn't really something immediately relevant. It makes sense as a countermeasure for future fuckery, though.
Also what the fuck was up with Stephen in the DLC, Jesus Christ that was horrifying.

It still boils down to murdering everyone vs. preserving life as you know it. Considering how you are strong enough to fuck up not just some random god, but God (yes he's not the Great Will I know) I'd say shit's at least fixed for the immediate future.

>- That fucking final dungeon.
The only real bad thing about it was the very first floor though, the others were alright. The only complaint I'd have is that it's huge and the game would have profited from having some kind of dash button.

>but then Apocalypse's base armour had no weakness so there's no incentive to switch anyway.
Stats and looks were enough of a reason for me to switch shit up. Weaknesses could fuck you over, sure, but resistances will save your ass as well.

>Are actually any bad
Nozomi, Danu, Toki and Hallelujah are exist you know

>Nozomi
Is a cunt about the whole Dadga thing but is otherwise OK. Not bad, not good, just OK.
>Danu
Gods being gods
>Toki
Kinda agree, sure she's hot and all but barely a character outside of being MUH MASTER
>Hallelujah
Another alright character who doesn't do shit for most of the game anyway and mans the fuck up at the end.

>tried something different
It tried to be persona. Of course it was hated by smt fans.

I wish they gave you more of an incentive to murder everyone. It's okay that you have the option but it doesn't make any sense at all unless you personally just fucking hate all the characters. At least some kind of betrayal of parts of the party or others would have made it more sensible. Or they could have had the hunters fucking you over right before the egg thing, giving you another incentive to just wipe the slate clean instead of being a good boy having an edgy day.

>reshaping humanity as godlike beings freed from dependence isn't a good motive
>permanently ending yhvh's cycles isn't a good motive

>and Neutral ending even the AI made fun of you for not deciding your own path.

Neutral is the only ending where you decide your own path. The pre-White Forest sequence is a long, drawn out showing of the worst of Law and Chaos. In fine SMT tradition you even have to beat the fuck out of both sides to do it. If you don't like side quests getting hit with them can be tedious and maintaining the balance semi-blind can be a pain in the ass but I played through last year and don't recall Burroughs giving me sass. Why would she? "I've decided to reject both of these assholes and ask the God of Tokyo to tear down this dome."

>reshaping humanity as godlike beings freed from dependence isn't a good motive
What would that solve instead of just creating a re-run ot the current universe with humans being the demons instead?
>permanently ending yhvh's cycles isn't a good motive
There's really no reason to think you won't end up as another YVHV yourself. Also, you'll have to deal with the goddess of Tokyo constantly invading your shit. Though I wonder how the goddess of a city could be a threat, but it did sound like one.

How can you say you're a SMT3 fan then complain about SMT4's endings were retarded when all the reason endings sucked ass and even used the exact animation at the end leaving only Freedon and TDE which was added in the rerelease and ended on a huge cliffhanger.
He's talking about the roof scene in the beginning where if you chose something like "I don't know how I feel about this" Burroughs says pic related.

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If anything she'd berate you for joining the White faggots. At some point she goes all
>I've analyzed your shit and you're basically a fucking retard
during one of the fights, from what I remember.

>What would that solve instead of just creating a re-run ot the current universe with humans being the demons instead?
There's no "observation" in the new universe, so the new humanity wouldn't be limited like the demons. They'd be more like ubermensch.

>There's really no reason to think you won't end up as another YVHV yourself. Also, you'll have to deal with the goddess of Tokyo constantly invading your shit. Though I wonder how the goddess of a city could be a threat, but it did sound like one.
You have both your goddess and flynn to keep you in check, and the tokyo goddess could easily be killed by flynn too.

That's amusing but hardly a definitive tie-in to the ending. Might be making fun of the player for trying to pick wishy-washy answers when Neutral requires you to actually balance your Law and Chaos responses. Besides a huge part of the rest of the game and most of the supporting cast is trying to get you to believe that Law OR Chaos are the only possible outcomes.

It's pretty funny how she low-key supports and condemns you in the Reactor fight. "Congratulations on completing your mission."

>There's no "observation" in the new universe, so the new humanity wouldn't be limited like the demons. They'd be more like ubermensch.
If you want them to be at least somewhat human, they'll have to have some kind of individuality, or they'll just be one with nature like Dadga wanted everything to be. And if you'll give them individuality, they'll also gain the power of observation.

Just because the """""persona-like""""" characters and that's does not matter because you can fucking kill them.

Smt4a is literally the best smt game gameplay wise.

>Smt4a is literally the best smt game gameplay wise.
It's really crazy, there have been so many things that annoyed the fuck out of me in IV and ALL OF THEM have been fixed in Apocalypse. That alone made it so much more enjoyable.

Atlus learned their lesson and will make SMTV take the gameplay of SMTIV:A while preserving the classic SMT feel, right? That's why it's taking so long for them to release any info at all, right?

Observation isn't tied to individuality, it's just something the axiom imposed on being that are conceptually "humans", once you make them something "other" they lose the ability to turn belief into reality just by holding it.

>AAA game dev learned their lesson

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They will keep the Persona-fication of the characters but get rid of the gameplay improvements.

man devil survivor had pretty persona-like characters yet the situations they found themselves in made them really interesting

since it's inevitable that they're going to try to make the characters have more mass appeal, I hope they take cues from devil survivor instead of persona

Nothing really, just a few persona onlies shitposting.

I hope so too. The difference with Devil Survivor is that the characters actually acknowledged the danger of the situation, even if they were tropey, which helps ground the characters.

i'm still mad that they didn't make a 3rd entry for the 3DS. heck even the system's name was made for it.

>Replay the game from my pre-choice savestate to get the friendship ending
>Kill that pajeet fagget
>Everyone is happy now
>HURR DURR LET'S KILL GOD JUST FOR SHIT AND GIGGLES
>Have to do the YHVH dungeon all over again

Holy shit I'm about drop this game, YHVH universe is such a snorefest.

should have just killed your friends

>irish
>pajeet
i don't think i've been paying enough attention

I think he's talking about krishna.

Already did it in my first playthrought of course, I just wanted to see the other ending, needless to say I was dissapointed, there is little to zero new content.

pic related

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you're right

how the fuck did I just forget about the main antagonist for 4/5ths of the game

so did hindus really get mad about fedora krishna or was it just one guy

Tbf this is literal blasphemy

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i dunno, i'd be pretty psyched if my culture's deity was taken by japs and turned into a sith lord with a kickass theme song

You kew Dagda route was the correct choice.

The dialogues of those characters throught the game was enough incentive.

>>HURR DURR LET'S KILL GOD JUST FOR SHIT AND GIGGLES
I don't know about you but God playing a hand in humanity's eradication is probably enough motivation to fuck his shit up.

Its controversial?
I didnt think it was. Good game though.

stupid people assblasted about things that don't matter

Oh boy I sure hate Persona. Have I mentioned that I hate Persona? Fucking Personababbies. I want every game to be a carbon copy of Nocturne and nothing else.

>HURR DURR LET'S KILL GOD JUST FOR SHIT AND GIGGLES
The Divine Powers literally stated that YHVH was responsible for the conflict

Persona already exists and smt exists as a separate thing to do things differently. Blending one into the other makes having a separate franchise pointless.

Please name the Persona mechanics present in Apocalypse other than having a party of friends with you. Which you can ultimately even get rid of if you really want.

>character has a revelation and learns something new about themselves
>as a result of this inner growth they gain a new power
Don't pretend like 4a isn't persona encroaching onto smt.

I think you're reading too much into it, it's just the characters getting motivated relayed to you through a gameplay mechanic.

It's cringy persona tier character development with mechanics to match. Good writing shows people changing over time, not pulling shit out of their ass from out of nowhere. Pic related.
>I want the power to change
fuck off with that shit.

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I can agree with you on Toki, she was just a shitty character all around with that shitty "master" arc in the middle.
It's still not like they suddenly pull superpowers out of their ass, it just shows the point where they made up their mind about the things they want to do. The game says that they've "awakened" but that's about it, no one's suddenly "HUH SO THAT'S MY NEW STRENGTH".

I want to rape and eat toki.

Nature of supporting cast. Like a few or hate all is what I generally see.
Maybe retcons with prior game.
Just mostly plot stuff.
Other than that it's pretty solid considering what it fixes with SMTIV and the content that's there.
Just trust dagda

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medium.com/@wondermagenta/what-makes-smt-iv-apocalypse-so-disappointing-2a9b6ffb2b8b
this is why apocalypse is dog shit

toki's character makes me cringe

>(This write-up originally served as the basis for a thread on the ResetEra forums; since I put a lot of thought into it, I feel inclined to also post it here to essentially preserve it and make it more visible)

>Things immediately get off on the wrong foot in Apocalypse with a heavy-handed introduction that basically explains away the entire backstory of SMT IV’s world, all of which was left completely and deliberately vague in the original game.
because it's from the perspective of the people that lived in shithole tokyo, it's all common knowledge to them
one line into this critique and it's already wrong holy shit.

>medium
>resetera
Jesus I trust the anons ITT than this wanker

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