Why did Nintendo stick to cartridges for so long?

well let’s see
>Faster load times that competes with most SD cards
>(now) more storage space up to a terabyte
>More durable than blue ray

>faster
>more durable
>can have extra chips
>can save data
because they were the only guys who knew what they were doing

Cartridges these days don’t really have the drawbacks of the older generations

Flash memory is based and redpilled. There's a reason cds and hdds are getting replaced by sd cards and ssds.

Disc-based consoles were a temporary abomination, carts are the past and the future.

Nintendo stuck with cartridges for faster load times, copy protection, and to maintain control over the console.

The CD-i scared Nintendo from ever working with other companies and having their IPs show up on other consoles. They tried to do a disk drive with the N64.

soul

flash memory is not the same as the cartridges in n64 and snes. the cartridges of old actually complete a circuit on the motherboard of the console. this is the reason there is basically zero loading times.
flash memory is still seen by the console as an external memory source, and while it is typically faster than dvd and bluray, there is still loading.
CTR on switch has like 35 seconds of loading per race on switch. on a true cartridge like n64, the loading would be like 1 second.

Cartridges are still like 100x the price of optical media, but optical media in a handheld like the switch is a retarded idea because they're large, fragile, and battery draining.

PSX using CDs helped attract 3rd party devs and got them more worthwhile games. It sold more at the end and won the generation. Only on Yea Forums will people say "actually Nintendo was in the right and the entire video game market and consumer base was wrong".

There are people that really think this?

As good as some of the N64 games were, they still weren't worth 80 fucking bucks.

The better games were on cartridges

Outside of storage size, cartridges will always be the absolute most optimal way to play video games.

It also helped that you only had to deal with megabytes worth of data transfers on the older consoles. Even on the PS1 loading times would be at worst ~12 seconds with an acceptable average of ~5-6 seconds worth of load times.

Name one good 3rd party N64 game not made by Rare.

This %100

Buck Bumble

there was this one mickey mouse racing game that was
oh wait fuck

No Mercy

Congrats fuckwit, you have all the most popular N64 games. You want a fucking medal

Tony Hawk 2

the two Bomberman games
Castlevania 64
the two Rush games

Carts made the audio for the N64 super fucking weird.

>Castlevania 64
>good
Come on now

Because what is the difference

No, I've just been on a collecting kick, and it makes me happy to see the progress I've made.
I'm nowhere near done with it, but I'll take my small victories.

It was fucking great. Loading times on PSone were fucking pathetic.

Even now my piece of shit PS4 sounds like a fucking jet engine compared to my silent little good guy Switch.

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GOEMON!

That's a result of the absurd compression. Even taking that into account it still amazes me that something like Conker managed to fit under 64mb when games on other systems were regularly releasing at several times that amount.

Because the Switch is never turned on.

Hybrid Heaven
The World is Not Enough
Rogue Squadron
All of the AKI wrestling games

the second one was good, and had a remix of the first one included too.

i do to, my friend lent me his action replay for gta series. another friend stole all of my pc games. i bought them back.

A Switch game is on a card which uses flash memory, actual Nintendo cartridges (pre-DS) used rom chips. They're different things, cards ≠ carts.

Turok 1-2, Rage Wars
The first Rogue Squadron game
WWE No Mercy
Mischief motherfucking Makers
Bomberman

Winback

Shadow Man

Rayman 2

Mischief Makers.

xD

DISCS DIDN'T HELP THE SATURN, YOU FUCKING IDIOT

>the entire video game market and consumer base was wrong".
You must be a giant fan of loot boxes and microtransactions

All shit.

Discs weren't the problem.

Sounds like Nintendo is run by lawyers

your mom is shit

Resident Evil 2 -it was also an achivement for the console to actually pack all the info in a cartridge-

And stubborn old farts, yes.

The disk drive was released and they were floppy style disks.

Because they believe carried about fasting load times more. Nintendo also wanted people to buy their own chip and control the amount they sell. Final nail was the whole CD issue between Sony and Phillips. Nintendo didn't want to give games on CD rights to Sony. Phillips was just shitty.

Shadows of the Empire. Now gtfo

You're shit

I don't think it's that they are reluctant to change, but they are slow to take the innovations of their competitors. Though with how shitty most companies in the game industry are, that's both a good and a bad thing.

>owning plastic shit is a victory
God I hate zoomers

Santa Clause
North Pole, Canada
H0H 0H0

>Nintendo 64
>Zoomers
It hurt itself in its confusion.

Little of column A little of column B, probably.

You seem to he confused.
Zoomers think paying to temporarily use 1s and 0s is a good idea.

these are the main reasons

faster load times, harder to pirate

Yeah, PSP was notorious for having shit battery life because of its optical drive; you'd get maybe 2 hours max before it would be dead.

What are the chances that next gen consoles to back to cartridges or use just like an SD card for physical games?
Wouldn't they be able to store more than a Blu Ray?

I doubt anything will ever be able to store more than a Blu Ray.

retarded phobia of piracy. Nintendo is still doing retarded shit to this day instead of making a proper console

Not likely because discs are still cheaper than solid-state storage like SD cards. Those pennies add-up and the publisher jews will want to cut costs wherever they can.

>PSX
>more worthwhile games
lel
We should have always stuck with cartridges

There's already micro SD cards that store more than multi-layered blu-rays.

None because they're all moving to games as a service.
Makes me mad, with the state of modern memory it would actually be feasible to sell cartridges that are just cheap ssds.
dumb comment.

I see. But like said, even then companies will go with cheaper CDs.

To avoid paying sony taxes? Or was it Philips with CDrom? DVD and Blu-Ray were Sony things atleast.

Plastic discs are much cheaper per GB than most any other format. Nintendo doesn't use them, along with the Vita, because everyone learned how a disc drive killed thee PSP's battery life. Disc drives are also slower, but they'll remedy that by having you install every game on an SSD instead of distributing games on SD cards.

Remember to filter and hide tripfags. Do not reply to them.

I think BRs can go up to 100GB or so nowadays. I doubt a 128GB+ SD card would be cheaper than a disc.

Thats some lightning fast reaction time, champ.

it can go up to 300GB with a 6 layer BD
there's also archival discs which can hold multiple terabytes but those aren't relevant for vidya distribution

(You)

>there's also archival discs which can hold multiple terabytes
Interesting, didn't even know about those. I assume they (and the burner required) aren't priced anywhere near the range of what would be viable as a home user long-term backup solution, are they?

I should probably clarify that I wasn't really trying to deliver an actual message about the merits of collecting, I was mostly just bathing in the satisfaction that I'm making headway.

because cartridges shit all over discs

Yes
>3.3 TB optical disc, can only be written once and requires a special burner: $188.57
>4x 1 TB HDD, rewritable and doesn't require special hardware: $175.24

No one cares

No one was forcing you to reply.
:^)

Because Nintendo completely controlled production of carts. Third party developers wanted to move to CDs because they were far cheaper to produce and didn't require enormous payouts to Nintendo to produce carts.

Space Station Silicon Valley
Rocket Robot On Wheels

Oooh, Chameleon Twist.

Yeah I did a quick search and found the system. The USB3 version of the burner costs $7000. I didn't bother to look for media price after that. If it were just media price I might've been interested, it's more expensive but the durability and reliability would've been very appealing. It would've been nice to be able to store something and have it last my entire life.

The problem is not with the format but with the game optimization, I have CTR digital on switch and there are still loading times.

Becasue they were right and stick up with it even though the rest tell them to jump into the newest trends. In perspective Cartridges ( and alike) are the perfect media for games, CDs became shit after 2 gens.

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Little known factoid: Nintendo owned almost every piece of the supply chain leading from publishing to distribution at the time. They owned the plants where the games were manufactured and thus had to pay no royalties for using CD technology and could keep every bit of profit from a game's production and sale outside of the cost paid to the dev and retailer. This is why thry stuck it carts, because although they were more expensive to produce than CDs and more expensive for devs, Nintendo themselves kept vastly more of the profit.

Also, games like Ocarina of Time (i.e. games with a contiguous open world with few to no loading screens) were not possibile without the cartridge format. While carts were limiting from an audio standpoint, they were overall the best choice of format for the time period. I'm glad they stuck with them.

more durable
harder to pirate
faster load times

Honestly the only reason other companies still use discs is because they're cheaper (right now)

Ogre Battle 64

>still use discs is because they're cheaper
They were always cheap; that's why PS1 catch on with devs.

I wasn't trying to imply they weren't, just that the difference between a cartridge and a disc of the same size will even out eventually

>In perspective Cartridges ( and alike) are the perfect media for games
this, especially for handhelds

Gimmicks.

Was much more difficult to pirate and faster load times. Nintendo also tries their hardest to avoid paying royalties to Sony who just happens to have had a major part in all of the major disc based formats CD/DVD/Blu-ray. That's why the Gamecube used proprietary mini-dvds harder to pirate and to avoid paying royalties to Sony.

blast corps

Because there was a partnership with sony that fell apart and so they both did their own thing.

Thats Rare.

shit

let's try again, snowboard kids

Why would you ever want to play the N64 version of those games? They all had better ports on PS1, PC, or Dreamcast.

>The problem is not with the format but with the game optimization, I have CTR digital on switch and there are still loading times.
That doesn't matter it's still using internal flash based memory which is still going to be subject to throughput limitations.

To be fair with RE2 the N64 version was unique in that it could remove the tank controls. Don't think any other version had though although I could be wrong. It's a notable technical achievement but yeah not much of a reason to play it other than the aforementioned reason the cutscenes run heavily compressed at half framerate and the voice acting is so heavily compressed.

If you're a nerd for RE lore, it also had some exclusive files to read. Just little stuff, like Rebecca's report on the events of Zero.

Are nincels really trying to rewrite history with the N64 not getting completely BTFO'd by the PS1?

The fact that RE2 was ported is still unreal

>pointing out the PS1's use of an awful media format
>trying to rewrite history

Podracing

it allowed them to patent/copyright it while a cd is something anyone can make and they can't get the government to go after them as easily

the absolute best games from that gen were on N64 - cartridge

Are you a shareholder or what?

I'm fairly sure the randomizer mode is also exclusive to the n64 version.

For so long? They're already back to them again. They only used disc media for two and a half generations. Thing is now they have the capacity to store about as much as any disc

Because Nintendo had more powerful consoles than playstation until the Wii

The best version of Castlevania SOTN was on a disk

(You)

all these failed attempts lol

sotn didn't exist on a cartridge.. so

>some n64 games still required that "memory pak" bullshit

fucking why?

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Wasn't removing save files done to make more room for the actual game?

flash memory was expensive, very few games actually had storage on-cartridge (mostly nintendo and rare games)

>They were always cheap
No, not for a while. They used to be fucking expensive, which is a big reason why even though CDs existed since 1982 cassette tapes reined supreme until the mid 90s, when CDs experienced a drastic drop in price. Also coincides with Sony starting to find someone to create a disc-based system with, how interesting.

Resident Evil 2. Rayman 2. Tactics Ogre. Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon. Hexen.

PS1 had a lot of games, but N64 had the best games.

>rare
>third party

Silly zoomer

CDs and disks scratch and they know their target audience. Autists and manchildren. Gotta keep those parents happy.

Glad they're back to cartridges 2bh. Needing to install every game on a fucking console is fucking retarded especially since apparently everyone stopped compressing their shit to save disc space.

Because the FDS failed and had a hardcore piracy problem

They still have massive downloads and installs because they're shipped incomplete because of cartridge limitations and costs. We're literally back to the n64 days.

PS1 dominated. Stop the revision retarded toddlers.

Nintendo didn't think much back then

No one realised until recently you could get the source code from mario 64 by running unoptimised code in the decompiler

(you) and me must be the only ones on Yea Forums that like hybrid heaven

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but by your logic lootboxes and $200 of dlc are also good things. The average person isn't very smart and companies do whatever makes money, doesn't mean it makes good games.

More soul

>sales argument
Lol

Delusional nintentranny

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*Better everything.

But 64 had all the best games? Why are you trying to rewrite history, snoy

>all these multiplats
Lmao

>NO NO DOESN'T COUNT
Almost all ran better on PSX.

Meant quote the other tendie

Because they stayed far the fuck away from actual 3d environments and just had movie clips and music. All multiplats played better on Nintendo consoles up until Wii

They're comfier.

Cartridges are fucking cool there is something about how chunky and resistant they are like a slab of videogames. CDs they scratch you have to be careful, SD card are puny, dematerialized, fuck that. Gay bits. I want big cartridges i can slide into their ports, i need to grab them with my hand and feel the vibrations between the materials you know? The click when it's all the way in, it's engaged and you know it.
I want memory cards, fuck. I want to have my memory card on me. In this object is contained my work and it needs a size to match it. What are these little shitty cards you have to press between the tips of your fingers? I want my brick of knowledge.

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>All multiplats played better on Nintendo consoles up until Wii
you're retarded, xbox beat the absolute dogshit out of the cube in better multiplat versions

Was strictly speaking between the other two brands, but you are correct

Gays not welcome.

>texture warping
nothing ran better on shitstation

>Literally the most common N64 games in existence.
>Games you can go online and literally buy hundreds of copies of if you wanted in a matter of minutes.
>Collector
The absolute fucking state of you.

wwf no mercy

Those are terribly made fake carts

Why do bing tendies think is better than this ?

All of those are literal who games that will be forgotten in ~20 years. N64 games were revolutionary and are still played today.

FF7 is more relevant than any N64 game

Nobody said. Also, that list has so many fucking 64 games on it

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...Yikes...

...Meanwhile the graphics are so bad you can barely see where you're going and it's being remade... yet... with n64 games the graphics are clear and hold up today.... no remakes in sight..

>FF7
PC game

Based, n64 games are timeless and affected every game we see today. PS1 has bunch of literal what games that no one with a brain plays still.

A bunch of things. But largely because the format was proprietary and it was a way to make more money from third party devs. Same way sega did, you had to pay them money because only they produced mega drive carts, there are loads of complaints about it, look back a bit.
They may have expected the cd-i to do a bit better than it did, and didn't want to tread on it's turf? Who knows.
We do know around the actual launches that their forward-facing reason was less load time. Which, you know, it barely held 1/10 the data, so of course it was faster.

Switch carts seem amazing on paper before you realize every publisher save nintendo jews out on the smallest, cheapest cart they can get away with and make you download the rest, completely defeating the point.

Mystical Ninja both games
Buck Bumble
Silicon Valley
Blood Harvest
Chameleon Twist 1,2
Snowboard Kids 1, 2
Bomberman Trilogy

>TrasH
>Trash
>trash
>TraSh
>Only "okay" (the second one is 1000x better than the first "game")
>Trash
>TrAsh

Cartridges pre 2006 are the most satisfying game containers. Nothing beats sliding a cartridge into a gameboy, or a SNES or N64.

>Worst games on the list are actually the best
Wow, I never thought I'd see someone with such shit taste.

There's something about them that just feels good. I get the same feeling with SD cards, thumbdrives, etc. There's just something about the physicality that feels right to hold.

Hearing that click when you put in your favorite game.

Yikes.. all these retarded zoomers

*sip* yep..

It's true. The 64 has the smallest library of any core Nintendo console and even less than some revisions like the game boy color. Plus less games than any Xbox, Playstation and most of Sega, including the discontinued Dreamcast.
If we count worthwhile as any game from 6 to 10, the 64 loses to the PS1 and the Saturn by the hundreds.

I'm sorry, user, but there's no need to get angry just because you just can't fulfill your switch's needs.

>hey're shipped incomplete because of cartridge limitations and costs.
>cartridge limitations
At least you understood games are being released incomplete half right. Not a media thing; games began being released incomplete in the disc era.

Shit hardware in comparison, already proved.

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Nintendo still uses cartridges cause they are based.

the cdi and the playstation assblasted them too much
they lost a lot of ips foor that petty shit and Kaga left Nintendo to work on a spiritual successor of FE on sont consoles

>spiritual successor of FE
False. It was a complete copy of it.

Still better than paying for digital distribution
>waah how dare they give their games physical releases
SD cards and flash drives exist so game devs could give their games physical releases for PC using those instead of disc so they can't use the "no one has an optical drive" excuse though I would still prefer blu-ray

I honestly consider Tear Ring Saga a sequel of FE more than actual FE6
the gba games are not bad at all and I love blazing sword, but they are not fire emblem games if not for the name imho

>I honestly consider Tear Ring Saga a sequel of FE more than actual FE6
Tearing Saga is the real FE Awakening

you are not wrong but some N64 games had loading times, sure they were fast but they still existed. And also CTR on switch has much, much more data to load and decompress than largest N64 game out there, there are switch games out there that had pretty quick loading times, but they are not as impressive as CTR is in terms of graphics or such.

Duke nukem Zero hour, Doom 64

Rayman 2 ps1 port sucks ass(less content, simplified levels, lower frame-rate) , now on THPS2 I agree because it has more music tracks that aren't cut-down on ps1

Why do you care when it gave us lots of great games with basically no loading times? I am glad they stuck with cartridges for another gen. It was just one more gen retard so why are you acting like it was so long when it wasn't?

>can't play videos in game
>less space
>$5 more expensive than the discs
>can't play music cds
>created their greatest competitor
Was it really worth it?

Obviously.

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I have childhood N64 games that still work and I think like third of my PS1/2 collection got fucked and don't work.
The decision was stupid at the time, but now I rarely have problems with the cartridges.

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Optical discs cannot be beat for archiving, stop falling for the digital distribution industries brainwashing.
>muh tape
Still doesn't compete for archiving, the only advantage is cost
Inphase Technology's tapestry media Holographic disc was able to hold 1.6tb and had the read speed of an HDD
Zoomers love digital distribution and hate and fear physical copies

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Sony Optical Disc Archive system's cartridges can hold 3.3 TB per cartridge, there is a 1.5tb version, and are filled with 300gb discs that are close to blu-ray but not blu-rays which makes it fair to assume that there is a 300gb standard for blu-rays.
I paid $7000 for my Gen 2 drive
They can go up to 128gb, quad layer can be 100gb or 128gb. BDXL
SD cards also don't have the longevity, though they are still preferable to being charged for a fucking download

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Those optical discs are meant for archiving, HDDs aren't
HDD can die at any moment bye bye data, an optical disc won't.
Get the digital distribution industry's cock out of your mouth
M-disc DVDs and blu-ray will probably last even longer than those Sony Optical Disc Archive cartridges but they can't hold as much. Highest capacity M-disc is a 100gb M-disc BDXL, your drive needs to be M-disc and BDXL compatible though

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This. And I was pro cartridge at the time, but choosing cd format is what gave Sony its foothold in the industry. People didn't really care about loading times.

The retards who defend the N64 as having the best library compared to the PS1 are no better than the morons who claim that the Genesis had a better library than the SNES.

But the Genesis has a better library than the SNES, unless you love shitty JRPGs and Mario.
Treasure games, Comix Zone, Golden Axe.

Speaking of Switch, how are load times on the thing? I remember seeing ReviewtechUSA video before Switch came out and it was rumored to use cartridges and he was praising the possibility saying how it could eliminate load times or at least greatly reduce them.

The fact that carts load faster is incidental. The real reason they went with carts is that Nintendo wanted to stick to a proprietary format to avoid having to pay licensing fees to the CD Consortium (later the DVD Consortium), and wanted to charge publishers their own licensing fees for every game released on their system. It's the same reason Nintendo went with their stupid tiny baby discs on the Gamecube, and single layer discs on the Wii; despite them having the same form factor as Mini DVDs and DVDs, respectively, they were actually a proprietary format because they didn't fucking learn their lesson from the Nintendo 64.

CD's are just a glorified download code these days anyway, let's be honest.

shush zoomer you wern't even a speck of sperm in your dad's nutsack yet

>trying to tell this to /nintendogaf/
good luck soldier

Road Rash 64

>they didn't fucking learn their lesson from the Nintendo 64.
The lesson that proprietary formats limit piracy and make them a lot more money?

Because Hiroshi Yamauchi was a psychopath.

Fast loadtimes and harder to pirate

Sure, let's go with that while ignoring the fact that the PS1 and PS2 outsold the N64 and GCN by a factor of three and five, respectively, and that multiplatform games sold better on the PS1 and PS2 than on the N64 and Gamecube, and that the Nintendo 64 is when Nintendo soured or outright ruined their relationship with third party publishers, a relationship that more than twenty years later is still not anywhere near what it was with the SNES.

>no remakes in sight
>what are Oot and MM

Why are you ignoring the only relevant metric?

muh piracy and not wanting to pay royalties to sony

Ironically cartridge based games is what you see most in rom sites

Not yet, but it's certainly going in that direction Thanks, zoomers!

On PC, they have been for ages. All of the game data installs to the HDD, and the only reason the disc needed to be in the drive at all was as a form of DRM.

Let's also ignore that hardware sales have fundamentally different value between Nintendo and Sony, right? Nintendo can and will sell millions of their popular franchises, that's something that they can expect with certainty. Sony on the other hand struggles to have even a single IP that's remotely as popular Nintendo's mid-tiers. They'd throw away tons of profit if they have to fork some % per software sale to someone else.
I'd argue 3rd party support is in pretty good shape again too. They're mostly only missing big western and AAA devs, but those are digging their own graves anyway

You might wanna look up the word bootleg, especially in this context.

>being this mad

lmoa

Silicon Valley

youtube.com/watch?v=quAucYAFU64

The psx was a shit system filled with shovelware. For the first time since the atari age, you could no longer go out, buy a game, and rely on it to be good. Making gaming accessable also irrevocably brought its ruin.

Yeah, eveyone knows how PC is, that's why it was never relevant until Steam appeared and finally nailed selling games on pc

What's the one facing away from the camera?

>can't play videos in game
>cant play music cds

Holy shit, you'd think that after getting shit on by years of memes sony fans would eventually learn to shut up about their multimedia systems and start talking about videogames on Yea Forums, but they really never do learn, do they?

I can already predict your next argument.

>those numbers dont count because theyre handheld

imagine playing any of the TH games on N64 lol
youtube.com/watch?v=mDWdYlaGaiI
youtube.com/watch?v=_cOkoxdzFuA

Zelda

>no remakes in sight
>Super Mario 64 DS
>Banjo Kazoei XBLA
>LOZ OoT3D and Majora's Mask 3D
they already remade all of the relevant N64 games

>awful media format
>more content
>better sound quality
>cheaper to make wich means developer made more than 2 games on it
whatever you say lol

Boco once again a retard
The Famicom had online for gambling and news and stocks, gaming was considered but the tech wasn't there yet. The SNES had online, through XBAND, as well as the unique Satellaview delivering games and broadcasts via satellite (different but still very bold). The n64 had online with Randnet, but because the Disc Drive was in development hell it only lasted a year before the Gamecube was out. The gamecube had online with broadband even, with about 3 or 4 major titles to it. The wii had online. The wii u had online. The Switch has online.
They adopted handheld wifi with the DS, literally right as it was picking up, and they implemented it in a ton more titles than the PSP did.
So tell me, did they think it was a fad, or was it just too limited still until the Wii to deliver a proper gaming experience?

Nintendo knew that disc-based systems were the future, which is why they were working with Sony initially on the Playstation attachment for the Super Nintendo. They screwed over Sony though, because they couldn't agree on how to share revenue, and when with Philips. When they saw the end results, however, Nintendo concluded that discs weren't quite ready yet, assuming gamers wouldn't want to wait out the egregious load times.

Optical drivers required a license, which they didn't want to pay.

I think it's because they were obsessed with owning everything when they were on top. Remember the goofy minidiscs for the Gamecube?

>load faster
>More difficult to break

Load times were a major factor, plus the first couple attempts to negotiate a transition to optical media (Phillips, Nintendo Playstation) fell through for various reasons.

>Obsessed with owning everything

If by that you mean "Didn't want to give every Nintendo IP to Sony by releasing games on the Nintendo Playstation because they realized the contract would stipulate that at the last minute" then sure.

if the n64 had used CDs it would have been 200 times better