Are you looking forward to Project NX, the competitive mod of Smash Ultimate?

The new airdodging thing they added makes the game look really janky and bad

Only interesting thing about Project M was that Brawl was fucking awful and slow as shit, so it needed dire adjustments - that and they added tons of costumes and extra characters.

Ultimate wasn't a trashfire like Brawl, and there's no costumes or characters, so uh, pass.

You mean what Ultimate should be? A sequel to the most advanced game in the series?

I'm genuinely more curious. Why do Nintendo fans, especially Smash fans, take such a bizarre stance against modding? Literally every other game on the planet modding, whether officially supported or not, is generally praised and it's considered acceptable to acknowledge modders made a better version of the game. But Nintendo fans not only hate that people will consider mods better than the base games, but that mods even exist. You only ever see these types of posts like this when it comes to Smash and Breath of the Wild modding, and it's really creepy how the cult of personality Nintendo has built has their fans actively against creativity or admitting that fans know better than out of touch developers.

It's a consolefag thing.

Is L canceling in yet?

The air dodge thing looks pretty whack. Seems like you could really abuse the speed and just air dodge in knee or something.

Pathetic. Just make your own fucking game already.

Lmaoing @ all the fags against modding

The "airdashing" shit looks dumb as hell. Also, why do people want ledge hogging back? Ledge trumping is a way more interesting mechanic and makes playing off stage less boring in my opinion.

Coincidentally I was trying to mod Ultimate today and found out that you presently need to have your SD card format to exFat since you need to store at 15~ gig file for mods to work, so I was SoL since exFat corrupts like crazy on the Switch and I wasn't willing to use it. The moral of the story is wait for better mod support before you shill this any further

Icons tried that failed miserably. Without nintendo characters no one will buy it.

>Why do people spend so much time and effort to make mods to existing smash games, instead of just making their own platform fighters?
Because when they have nothing to build off of and have to do their own shit from the ground up, the game ends up being absolute shit.

Attached: Dn9Y-GKU0AAyHa0.jpg (1200x628, 127K)

That really worked out well for the ICONS devs

Attached: 1530934245168.png (2449x2194, 1.45M)

It's mainly because Smash is a competitive game. If it were a casual game like Odyssey people would find mods to be neat, like they do 64 Mods.

People enjoyed Brawl Mods because Brawl wasn't a very competitive game.

>project m and the like
>creativity

You're confusing actually useful mods like tes unofficial patches to this.

yep, looks kinda promising

Ledge trumping makes no sense why does someone push me off when they grab the ledge?
I mean feel free to disagree, nothing wrong with that but you have to admit that it is not difficult to see why one would prefer ledge hogging

>The platform fighter version of Spike Spiegel was wasted on this garbage
it's a shame, he seemed pretty cool while everyone else was bland. Also hoping Smash gets a character like tiki climbers but I wouldn't know how they'd do it.

Ledge hogging means you don't have to actually try and gimp them half the time. It's boring as shit and should stay gone.

>its just ultimate without endlag
Take a shower already

Attached: 7C893C59-5BD2-4047-B0D4-6BC7DEABDF47.jpg (433x416, 157K)

>especially Smash fans

I think you mean specifically. Off the top of my head Mario (World in particular), Pokemon, and Fire Emblem all have sizable modding communities. But to answer your question I think that's a side effect of PM getting so big it formed its own side in the unholy warground that is the Smash fanbase.

PM was both useful awesome. Shame that youre ignorant.

and you think ledge trumping is a good solution for that?

No I'm just not a melee incel.

>its boring as shit and should stay gone
That's like, your opinion man.

I think its satisfying to steal the ledge. Also it isnt as if the ledge isnt still a great point to grab a spike or a bair for a ko. The magnet hands and ledge trumping really leave something to be desired. Why are you so mad?

>Slap City coming right out of the blue

Attached: 1475023023043.png (445x507, 109K)

I take showers and am not an incel so ur gonna have to find a better talking point to make some headway user.

Have anything to say that isnt buzzwords?

And is more obscure than anime fighters played in a hotel suite

Am I missing something? It just looks like they removed the animation after an attack and landing to the ground?

does anyone unrionically think this meme is funny?

Or they are just brain dead in creativity,and their supposed intelligence really is just adding shit on existing things while trying to pander to familiar shit. Slap City and Rivals (despite its jewishness) proves your statement false.

>complains about empty words being used at him when he replied with similarly empty words to begin with

DEODORANT DODGING

Attached: DBHoxVaXkAAnh9H.jpg (900x900, 78K)

>meme

wavedashing, sliding off platforms, edgehogging and less endlag completely changes the game. This mod will make it actually playable.

It’s not a meme.

Attached: E158B494-20F6-4912-97CE-A42FCF78C33C.jpg (583x767, 68K)

It's at the very least a more engaging one for both players. It's not perfect but it's absolutely better than "I'm gonna grab edge while you're recovering so ggs on that stock"

It's not very satisfying for the opponent or viewers. It shouldn't be for the opponent, but the opponent should at least feel like they got outskilled, which edge hogging really doesn't offer. Not only that, it's not very entertaining to watch nor does it really take skill to do, especially with the length of invuln when grabbing the edge in Ultimate (which could be reduced, but still)
>why are you so mad?
I should be asking you that. Move on from Melee.

its more of just a fact of life than a meme

This.

Imagine if SFAlphafags mod the values of SFIII to be like Alpha 2.

How were my words empty? You called Project M uncreative and brought up TES as some sort of gold standard when it was a pretty great mod. I called you out for being ignorant, and you are. You then replied with meaningless unoriginal buzzwords repeated hundreds of thousands of times on the internet when you have no real information on any given user.

user, you're just being a giant faggot and you know it.

Taking showers daily is an unhealthy america only phenomenon.

I can smell this message. Dear fucking god

That's true though
Plenty of people don't have to shower every day because they aren't greasy freaks forever stuck in puberty like you or I or the rest of Yea Forums

TES mods are a good standard when it comes to making mods that keep the original aspect of the game while improving it, rather than Frankensteining a game to be like the old shit. It is why whenever these fags create their own shit they end up looking garbage. This isn't Doom tier mod.

What's the point of getting butthurt over a mod? No one's making you use it, you can play the shitty casual version if you please.

SEAT SNIFFING

Attached: 4CBGiFxR_400x400.jpg (400x400, 19K)

>repeats himself constantly
user I really dont care about what the viewer wants. I care about if the game is fun or not, and while I'm open to other solutions to replace hogging ledge trumping really is not it. It makes no sense at all and I wish you could see that.

>no ur mad not me move on from melee
I'm not mad and enjoy ultimate. It's just that it could be better. Air momentum being bad compared to PM and melee is s big factor of why characters like falcon feel like ass in Ultimate and until shit like this is addressed I'll turn to older games and mods.

Again. Why are you so mad?

I remember there was a thread on smashboard where a venue asked people to shower or else he would start disqualifying people and the thread immediately got filled with people calling him a hack because “people can’t afford to shower everyday”
Can someone post the pic?

Ooo! Fuck! That's a spicy meme! I applaud you user (no, I'm being serious, Meleefags need a damn shower.)

There’s basically auto-l canceling in ultimate. Why the fuck would you want to go back to manual l-canceling

>relying solely on ad hominem at this point
gg no re.

>old bad new good
Oh jeez. Brawl and smash 4 sucked dude.

I don’t care about the mod too much, your message genuinely made me smell rotten cheese. The shower meme ruined me whenever I read smash shit.

You dont know what ad hominem even is. I didnt insult I just asked why a mod made him mad.

Brawl sucks but Brawl Minus was a better game than PM.

where your response amounts to targeting the poster rather than the content of the post. It pretty much means you have no argument at this point.

Brawl minus didnt make any sense everyone was so OP that it was just a clusterfuck

3 games later and these dudes still won't accept melee was a fluke.
Cope

Take a shower

>being too much of a brainlet to not understand Brawl-

Found it

Attached: 8B086BB9-AD1A-4B41-A9E7-F0757867A613.jpg (1334x750, 373K)

You are a retard if you do not see why thats fun.

>playing a mod that literally turns Wolf into a Fox clone
>those DA tier alt costumes
>Sami, Knuckles, etc.

>moving the goalpost
Great I love these high quality posts. You didnt read my reply if you honestly think that's what happened.

>edge trumping makes no sense
how, exactly? You grab the edge, the person who grabbed it previously is no longer grabbing it. It only really doesn't work when they both grab the edge at the same time when they're both recovering and the quicker one is in a disadvantageous position, but you can still play around that. It has more depth than grabbing the edge from the stage when they are recovering rather than having to try and edge guard.

Could you imagine not being able to pay for something as cheap as a water bill?
These smelly bastards need to put more effort into a job over a video game.

>shitters mad they'll never be this good at the game
LOVING EVERY LAUGH

No I fully understand that it was a beautiful accident. Nothing wrong with taking the best of each smash game and making a great mod out of it.

Who is really doing the coping here though? I mean look how upset modding a game makes you people.

I am actually surprised why this is a thing. I am assuming these are teens right? Wouldn't it be at that age where people are conscious with their health?

Trumping sucks.
Tr4sh ledges are bad because it removes one of the core states of disadvantages of the series, being off stage.

>how exactly
Uh isnt it obvious? Why does mario suddenly push me off when I already have it? Can you explain why this makes any sense? I had it first.

It's not a lot, but I at least win locals and I can tell you now I think the mods are a shit idea.

>asks about why people are against the mod
>gets replies
>complains about people who are against the mod

I find it hard to believe that there are genuinely people out there that refuses to buy a stick of deodorant and new underwear but is willing to buy a 300 dollar console, a full price game, a GameCube adapter, and an online membership.

>teens
these are grown ass men.

That's even worse!

because they go up, grab it, and push the character off. It's how the mechanic works and if you're asking about logical sense then we can go into double jumping, wave dashing, and how being hit with a sword or grenade explosion from point blank doesn't instantly kill you. It sounds like you just don't like trumping because it's not Melee mechanics.

Learn to edge guard.

Live Laugh Love

Nah these are melee fags judging by the date.

You forget the power of autism for people to put terrible/pointless mechanics in games.

I doubt many fans of melee are interested in learning how to play with garbage post melee mechanics. I hardly play new smash games until the mods fix them.

The absolute stench of the meleefags in thread is glorious

Attached: th.jpg (392x280, 14K)

I met a guy at a tournament once. was pretty cool.
He invited me over to play smash and his apartment was just horrible. It smelled like semen and garbage, his living room and kitchen was covered in McDonald’s bags. His room was just a mattress on the ground and two TVs. Both facing each other from the wall. One was a crt for melee and the other one was a huge brand new flatscreen tv for ultimate.

This dude doesn’t have deodorant. And his bed didn’t have sheets or a frame it was just a mattress on the ground. Yet he has brand new TV for smash.

amazing how you just completely ignore everything I've said about the change prioritizing edge guarding over "lol grab the edge", but you've finally shown your true colors as a hardcore Meleefag so now that I don't care that you're wrong, because you'll never admit to it.

So your retort is just "that's how it is" instead of giving a good reason for why a player should so easily climb out of the disadvantage state? Really? And you're going to attack me for disagreeing or are you attacking for merely for asking these questions? Yes I admit I prefer the ledge mechanics of brawl and back but I actually played a metric fuck ton of every smash game and smash 4s ledge trumping is still really not that great. The magnet hands make it worse.

I mean feel free to have your preference but I still disagree. I can edge guard fine having this preference doesnt mean I'm bad at it or Ultimate.

I'm not the guy you were talking to before. And how can disliking casual game mechanics be wrong? It's subjective, there's no right or wrong.

Didn't someone shit their pants at a smash tournament?

Hey dude that wasnt me you're reeing over in that post I'm the other reply but way to jump the gun man

I might prefer Melee and PM but I have played a metric fuck ton of every Smash game and like them all for different reasons. This entire time I've not been a dick but here you are jumping the gun and acting like a dick. Relax. We can all get along if you let it happen

okay, but grabbing the edge should never be gg. It's too low effort for too high of a reward. Ledge Trumping isn't perfect but I'll take it any day over Ledge Hogging.

>I don't like it so that makes it casual

No.

But I'm eagerly waiting for THIS

vocaroo.com/i/s0AC3wxMVrpf

Attached: 3ea.png (680x680, 264K)

Rivals of Aether?
Slap City?

Not a lot of people are going to hack their switches to begin with, and with launch switches being the only ones you can hack now too, as well as there no being easy way to play (like PM, you just load up the mod on stage building) this isnt going to have much of a life

And personally PM was one of a kind. I dont see another Melee-type mod having as much love and effort put into it. Also the NX thing will still have the input lag from Ult. If I wanted to play something like Melee I would just play Melee, PM, RoA, or Slap City.

And you know what I even said earlier in the thread that I think it could be done better. There is probably no perfect mechanic to tackle the ledge issue so to that end i wish it was a toggle so you could choose between either.

Cheers user

Not him but ledge hog is dumb because mechanically there is no getting out of the disadvantage state, it just arbitrarily reduces the range characters can recover from with the only caveat being you have to use ridiculously generous I frames when they get close. The melee player meme that being offstage isn’t a disadvantage with ledge trump is scrub talk.

But user you don't want to hurt the modding feefees

not a big melee fan, but honestly this looks pretty good, the airdashing especially.

Still more money than a mod will make. Also RoA and Slap City were decently succesful. Not Smash level obviously, but they both had (and to a small extent still have) a really active and fruitful scene.

So a game no one has heard of and another that was a flavor of the month at most.
You sure showed that user

Yeah
don’t have the pic so enjoy this
youtu.be/kW9pGZAUEAU

Attached: E66D86DC-8C4D-4C53-93D1-93D9D922B1D3.jpg (640x458, 27K)

a toggle sounds like a nice idea but that would just create a rift in the community forcing tournaments to choose which type of edge mechanics they want to use in their rule sets.

I feel like either a mod team or Sakurai has to look at edge mechanics and try to create a happy medium between the two mechanics we have, rather than choosing one or the other.

Something like this just isn't going to take off in the current climate of Smash.

Project M came out literally at the right time and the right place, back before Smash 4 came out and Brawl was dying while Melee was gaining more popularity. It was also before Nintendo started actually sponsering tournaments, which is what led to Project M being exiled from most major tournaments to begin with.

So yeah, with the new Smash games not being horrific dumbster fires like Brawl and with Nintendo breathing down our necks at tournaments, there's just no way a gameplay mod like this will ever gain major traction.

Attached: mfw.png (662x576, 312K)

Yes, I have a competitive drive. Might grab a Switch for this. How's Switch hacking come along? Are they still working out the kinks or is it already 3DS tier easy?

Airdashing looks jank as fuck and the removal of ledge trumping is gay, but I'd probably check this out if nothing more than for the reduced input buffer.

Still here?

Attached: 1560292001003.png (1696x846, 84K)

If you dont have the launch switch Im pretty sure its impossible

>You can hit Pichu again!!
He says as he gives Pichu the ability to wavedash, waveland and fucking dashdance in the with DJC fair

I dont think Nyx even knows what he's doing

Both are currently successful user

Imagine if these autistic cunts put as much effort into just making cool cosmetic mods instead of making shit gameplay hacks nobody will play

>no ganondorf
>but of course marth and chrom are in
Please consider death.
Why are you guys so stupid? Why is the smash community tainted by retards?
I'm tired of this, I love smash but I can't accept sharing this hobby with you guys. It's like the Sonic fanbase all over again, I'm tired of having to pretend I don't like something because I get associated with you smelly morons.

Attached: 1562484842265.jpg (497x373, 35K)

I have not had a good laugh in a long while!

Shame, guess I'll keep waiting.

Can’t wait to post this on /r/Yea Forums!
Thanks kind sir

If we use PM as measure their cosmetics also suck.

m8 it's the first 8 characters revealed in each game

Cosmetics mods still fuck with the online so whats the point

It made no money, it definitely costed more to make than it earned. The main point is to make smash great again, no hobbyist modder cares about making money.

>m8
Hello my fellow epic redditors!

Just because it isn't endorsed by meleetards doesn't mean it isn't "great"

>am I retarded?
>no, he's just Reddit!

Jesus

Attached: D9E4DA31-5FA5-4295-9C74-EBFBC782DC10.jpg (640x420, 18K)

Not them but a way I see it would be like this:
A happy inbetween would be a ledge trump that beats a lack of buffering get up options (as is now) but with a fixed, achievable distance/hitstun for the trump-ee that they can be every time consistantly (which would then be character-trumper/character-trump-ee dependant).
This assumes that correct order of characters grabbing the ledge, because off-stage trumping may need to be revamped for this to work consistantly, if at all (compared to instant ledge grabs from stage).
It allows an option to invade those who like to wait on ledge more consistantly without trying to hit the first frames of vulnerablity/2-frame whilst not impacting the importance of overall edge guarding/trapping.
I only say this because I find hogging boring compared to trapping (as the one in advantage), but wouldn't mind if trumping was available as a better choice.

I dont believe you

Marth may as have beem one of the original 8.

>So yeah, with the new Smash games not being horrific dumbster fires like Brawl
you have really low standards if tr4sh and ultimate don't meet your definition of a dumpster fire.
Ultimate is total trash. I pirated it and got bored before it even came out. It's just tr4sh 2. Nothing compared to melee.

Icons sucked balls dude stop its embarrassing

Happy to see anyone that like that sort of things can have it, but this makes smash in everything I don't like.

Also
>combos
If you spell combo as "0 to kill the heavy that didnt change direction after a hit"

Attached: E15D82C3-8D4A-48D9-9081-5928EAB8FADF.jpg (512x384, 46K)

Icons sucked because it got sucked into the lootbox trap.

I didn't promote Icons user

>What is Rivals of Aether
>What is Slap City
>What is Icons

And there's likely more, I do recall at least one Kickstarter for a Smash-style game with some furry characters that involved a style swap button. Either way, neither of them really have the benefit of using Nintendo or other famous third-party characters which is where much of Smash's charm lies in to the point where Yea Forums's catalog is flooded on announcement. Two of them are dependent on OCs designed for the game, while the other is made by the most self-referential indie company. Although, the latter was technically saved by the game.

Attached: remedy.png (744x1052, 440K)

I wish we got more games like SlapCity or Aether
Icons just felt like a bad melee knockoff, judging by the cover, and that leaves a bad impression

>Smash Ultimate: Rainbow edition
I seriously don't understand the point of a mod like that. Adding more mechanics doesn't make your game more competitive, and it's highly unlikely that the community around the mod would be big enough to warrant a tournament.

And for modern fighting games, you don't see that right? It's only Smash bros, just because Project M was a thing.

so correct me if I got it wrong, but what you're saying is it only works as an edgehog if you're on your way off the edge?

That at least encourages timing it but still sounds too easy for edge hogs. It's still better though.

It was their fault for making their characters too closely resembling competitive Melee characters, like the first two revealed being NotFox and NotMarth, followed by NotGanondorf

Slap and Aether are fun.

What a weird projection user. I love moding and have done so extensively in the past, the skyward one that fixed pacing a bit is great, just to name one, or the one that put touching characters back in the censored version of fire emblem. But some people don't like you changing things in a game they like, that have spent a lot mastering and consider fine.

I know it is hard for some people to understand people actually like smash the way it is, but it's quite commonplace.

>It's only Smash bros, just because Project M was a thing.
No it's because the new games suck and sakurai intentionally makes the bad for competitive play. You're getting the cause and effect mixed up. Sakurai openly says that melee was too hard for smooth brained casuals and he dumbed down the newer ones on purpose.

Oh right, I remember now - that Kickstarter game was 'Earth Romancer'. Appears to be cancelled.

Stinky
youtu.be/QkZB6YxtWKI

Nah, I'm with him on that one, ledge hogging is pretty dumb, even more coming from a fanbase that is all about "look how hardcore and fast melee is".

If you or your character are unable to gimp that's on you, your ability and decision making.

Sakurai made moves doing more damage 1v1s and added back directional air dodging to appeal to competitive players, and in addition is taking balance patches much more seriously this time, buffing those who need it and only primarily nerfing infamous extremes like Chromcide and Pichu fTilt. Saying he intentionally made any game besides Brawl bad for competitive play is simply falsehood. Even if 4 was a bad game.

As for Melee, I think Sakurai is referring to the skill floor for Melee. There are so many little things you need to know if you want to even have a chance, and while that is true in other games, you're still slightly better picking those up from the start than you are Melee. New Melee players rising to the top simply isn't a thing anymore. Whoever wins an event, it's a name you've heard before. Last time someone made a splash in Melee was Amsa, and that was a long time ago at this point.

sounds more like faggots who want their cake and eat it too

Ultimate is literally the most played fighting games in tournaments, by a huge margin.
Numbers are what's important here, making the game "more complex" isn't going to bring more tournaments players. That's the reason those mods are made, and everytime no one gives a fuck, because the modders completely misses the point of what people wants in a competitive game.

So is this actually out? Description didn’t have a download or anything.

Got ultimate a few weeks back and gor bored before unlocking everyone. Kind of want to try getting back into it but there’s something about the ‘flow’ of the game that feels off. This looks like it might fix that. Hopefully they can fix the awful input lag at some point.

Airdodge cancel sounded really overpowered but apparently the comments are saying they removed all the iframes so now it’s just an airdash, and that actually sounds pretty cool.

fpbp

>As for Melee, I think Sakurai is referring to the skill floor for Melee. There are so many little things you need to know if you want to even have a chance, and while that is true in other games, you're still slightly better picking those up from the start than you are Melee. New Melee players rising to the top simply isn't a thing anymore. Whoever wins an event, it's a name you've heard before. Last time someone made a splash in Melee was Amsa, and that was a long time ago at this point.
That's how a skill intensive game is supposed to be. You can't just expect to beat people with a decade of experience if you have none.
most people are casual shit eaters who will play it even if it's worse, I'm aware. what's your point? I doubt the developers care whether people who like their mod are the majority, they are most likely making what they want.

Nobody gives a shit about Smash-like games that don't have Nintendo characters in them because they're actually shit competitively and nobody in the scene wants to admit it.
See: Rivals of Aether, Brawlhalla, and more
The only one that was sort of good on it's own was Slap City and that was mostly because of how stupid it is.

user just because it's not in Yea Forums 24/7 doesn't mean no one plays it

>that one time a smash player ate glue

clips.twitch.tv/ConsiderateGracefulKittenShadyLulu?tt_medium=clips_api&tt_content=url

Attached: 1DEBAE7B-5A08-4F20-8B02-1757CE9DC960.jpg (1080x1440, 221K)

>if they dont like the mechanics i like theyre casual shit eaters

it shouldn't take an absurd amount of time to learn a game like it does Melee's movement. Melee also has characters like Fox that's hard for even pros to keep playing because of how much optimal Fox play does a number on your hands.

The game is very much playable as is.

rivals and brawhalla have active competitive scenes and slap citys scene is also kinda active. maybe dont talk about shit you dont know

>I doubt the developers care whether people who like their mod are the majority
They're making a "competitive mod". If it's not to be played with a community of players, what's the fucking point?

No it isn't, stinky.
Take a shower, dilate, and have sex.
In that order.

Attached: 1562322090637.gif (291x300, 2.92M)

>0:15 you can hear the shit coming out
>"hey nooo.. ennghgnnn... not yeeet.. eyyyenughhnghnnn..."
i really wish i wasnt living on the same planet as these "people"

Attached: photo (2).png (900x900, 372K)

Oh hey isn't the mod also a massive rosterfag? Imagine, being both a rosterfag and an anti-hygienefag

i guarantee you anyone obsessed with new characters in a game that already has 70+ is not hygenic, not just this guy

The issue is that Ultimate's in a real lousy spot for cosmetic mods at the moment, which is more hindering than Brawl and Smash 4 modding, particularly for costumes.
>filesize limits; whatever you add in cannot be higher filesize than the vanilla asset you're replacing, nor use additional textures unless you redirect and replace from somewhere else
>shared textures across costumes; whenever possible, Ultimate shares a same texture file across costumes (so all of, say, Mario's costumes refer to one same diffuse, normal map, and PBR map for his head model; there are some minor goofs as a result of this, like SNES Little Mac no longer having his unique green eyes) so you're basically SOL if you wanted to do more than recolors
When SaltyNX comes out (a new method of SD loading in development for the Switch), these limits can be bypassed: costumes can have higher filesizes and have slot-unique textures.

please tell me you don't think PM's custom skins are actually good

This argument falls apart cause melee players go off stage all the time to get kills.

If the guarder is better off grabbing the ledge you either recovered poorly or are on the very, very VERY cusp of the space from which you can recover and only have one option.

Edge hogging is cool cause it makes the recoverer have to recover on stage instead of getting ledge invulnerability, and that leads to far more interesting situations, punishes and mixups (from both parties).

Times where the ledge is the only option you have, where getting locked out of it spells certain doom, are less frequent than all the other times where you can recover to more places than just the ledge. When the ledge is always safest, recovering and guarding aren’t as interesting.

Sometimes in ult you’ll recover on stage to avoid off stage punishes, but this was also true for melee. The ledge is too centralizing in ult, it’s the best option too often.

That’s my take, but I’ve only played a little of ultimate. I’m not even gonna say one is flat out better than the other cause I get how this is a matter of preference, but people saying that melee style ledge hogging has no unique merits don’t know what they’re talking about.

What's your obsession with shitting on PM's costumes?

It's possible to have a community and not outnumber the tr4sh 2 crowd simultaneously, brainlet.

Friendly reminder that ledgehogging would completely invalidate most of the cast just because of their recovery.
This is just leffenfags mad that there are more than ten viable characters.

problem is edgehogging nullifies the edge as an option unless your foe went too deep trying to edgeguard you and failed, at which point they probably SD'd anyways.

this mod will do neither

>air-dodge cancel to an attack
Is this some Arksys junk or something?

because they are garbage, deviantart tier, fan-pandering crap

>unironically thinking lucario with gi, fursona Wolf, or ninja squirtle are good

The problem is that you are saying "it's worse because this situation can exist" (that being of recovering without ledge), but I feel you are not considering how more options are better and how different situations can increase or diminish your chances of obtaining something (be it gimping or recovering) based on your characters ability. That way you make more characters viable instead of the very few melee have.

>fursona Wolf
Stopped reading there. That was his fucking Star Fox 2 design you goddamn casual.

not him, but i can agree on tr4sh being a dumpster fire, not even just from a competitive standpoint either, game's a complete mess and mods weren't even enough to save it

Attached: 1562513379542.gif (360x360, 3.39M)

>fursona wolf
user what is it like being a fucking retard?

Attached: 1345301705275.gif (290x189, 2.9M)

>doesn't even look like SF2 Wolf
>calls it SF2 Wolf

more and more is the "Smashfags don't play the games and only know indirectly" tenet true

If I wanted to play Melee, I would literally just play Melee. I like Ultimate for what it is, and shoving that many movement mechanics into Ultimate makes certain characters broken as fuck. This isn't like Project M where several characters got revamped and made more viable and fun than they were originally in Brawl, they literally didn't even think to balance out some of the characters first. It's only fun because of le ebic fast paced fighting game meme.

Untrue, even at high level melee play there are many times where the recoverer successfully grabs the ledge.

The guarder may not be able to reach the ledge in time (more common than you’d think) or choose to guard on stage options instead (also common).

Like I said, this encourages mixups from both parties with trying to aim for the ledge or different parts of the stage (or off stage) in a way that ult and 4 don’t. That’s not to say ledge trumping doesn’t lead to it’s own mixups, I’m sure it does, in ways that are unique to that system.

You can watch high level melee if you don’t believe me, recoverers grab ledge commonly. The idea people have that ledgehogging is always this guarunteed kill in melee that beats all recoveries is just flat out wrong.

Yes, yes it is you retard.

Attached: 248e7443280777f171b6a20592b6cc7a.jpg (500x484, 19K)

I'm a meleefag and for the most part really like Ultimate. IDK man for the first time in years I really felt like they for the most part did alright. Brawl and Smash 4 sucked but Ultimate doesn't.

The movement needs work. Like, momentum and air movement really blow ass in the newer smash games this isn't debatable. Pick Falcon in Melee or PM then pick him in Ultimate. It's like night and day. He moves through the air like the air is sludge in Ultimate. Ain't ok bros. What did they do to my boy?

Attached: 2f7.jpg (2464x1648, 366K)

might as well kill heavies at this point

user they are already anthro characters like, how the fuck is Brawl wolf any less fursona? The fuck?

That alt costume is way better than his Brawl appearance. It's not even a contest.

Attached: 1493953027761.jpg (320x423, 19K)

do you even know what a fursona is?

>let's make annoying characters even more annoying with new annoying mechanincs the game

fucking stupid as hell.

>might as well kill heavies
They still suck dick in every single smash game so making the fast characters less fun really hasn't helped them much.

Give them loads of super armor and make every smash attack hit like Ganondorf's Sword. It's really about the only thing you can do. Heavies just don't work well in these games.

>literally looks like someone's fursona
>total departure from the (more Japanese-looking) SF2
>especially the midget official art

no, you just suck PM's cock

Attached: 0ad.gif (255x320, 18K)

user... what the fuck are you talking about?

Attached: hitomi think.png (968x1936, 1.91M)

>literally looks like someone's fursona
You dodged the fucking question. How does that alt costume look any less "fursona" than the Brawl appearance?

Further, how does he look any more fursona than the SF2 appearance?

this one is also released post-SF2 but the point still stands, it looks more like a furry's interpretation of Wolf than an actual estimate of his design. I'm glad PM cocksuckers can only reply with shitposts though, shows how braindead they are when it comes to taste.

Attached: Illust.png (640x451, 95K)

>it looks like a furries interpretation of an already anthro character
user, I...

Attached: 1561248146528.jpg (200x200, 12K)

the only Heavy that has ever been good was Brawl Snake.

Not every fictional character ever made is someone's self-insert, user. Chill.

Attached: 1562880036170.gif (364x366, 2.42M)

who had disjointed as fuck hitboxes and ridiculous projectiles. take that away and he'd suck

Because there was no attempt to make it look like from SF2 at all, but rather someone who draws furry shit. From the face to the clothing. Even Brawl's Wolf took cues from Assault's look.

>PMfag is braindead

I rest my case.

>he doesn't know the difference between a "furry" design and a typical starfox character
>in fucking Yea Forums

figures all they know are shitpost replies and acting dense

>airdashing
fucking retarded

Dedede was considered good, also I remember Bowser being decent even in Melee. And no, heavies are pretty much decent now, stop using Rool as reference.

oh yeah, and Brawl wolf somehow doesn't look any less like a leather daddy gay furry?
>eyeliner
>choker
>belts
>small best with no sleeves
>dominatrix boots
you cant be this stupid.

>makes braindead posts
>mindlessly attacks project M
>is likely terrible at smash bros
>expects me to differentiate furshit from furshit like there is a fucking difference
You're over here acting like that star wolf design is bad meanwhile I think it looks better than the original brawl design.

Attached: a324.jpg (480x480, 66K)

>ddd was good
take away his gay ass chain grabs and no, he wasn't

>Bowser decent in Melee
What? Bowser is bottom 3 in Melee

Waddle Spam is pretty powerful

We're talking about design user. You know how furries sometimes draw Wolf differently? There, that's the idea.

And despite all that he's still close to his source material (yeah in both Command and Assault he has them - it's a generic "evil" look).

No you just "argue" with shitposting because you think cancerous design like fursona Wolf and Lucario with a gi are good. I bet you clapped when you saw ninja squirtle.

>fursona
I do admit the star fox crew is basically furry shit but I’m pretty sure you have no idea on what that word means.

well for one it's easier to develop something based on an existing IP than it is to make something compelling from scratch. Additionally, some people just really like and care about certain games

Oh wait that was 4

>he doesn't know the difference between a "furry" design and a typical starfox character
you have no idea what a furry or a fursona is, do you?

>Take away the good shit good characters had and voila! They're bad!

It's a good reference. Like a mod becoming its full fledged game later on. I believe Classic Fortress was like that.

I think too many options being available too much of the time actually leads to a sterile feeling game, because the same options are presented each time.

With melee’s system there are just as many options (when the guarder is doing nothing), but the guarder can do a better job of shutting out some of those options. It feels much more dynamic to me, because while the guarder limits some of your options, the way they move around the stage means the options you have access to are constantly changing. I value that dynamism and the involvment it creates between the two players.

Ult reminds me more of something like BotW - you always have so many of the same options that the experience can feel sort of flat at times. Keep in mind I say this as someone who loved BotW, and I can get why some would prefer this approach.

I just have a preference for how melee handles things, but I can see where people who prefer trumping are coming from. Also, while 4/ult do guaruntee more options for the recoverer, the lack of ledgehogging does remove an option from the guarder. Last second ledgehogs are a lot more fun to get than a lot of people give them credit for, and aren’t actually that easy against someone who knows how to recover.

Also, keep in mind a missed ledgehog can be very punishable. It’s a very easy way to lose a stock even at low percent.

since you guys are retards, this is what a "fursona" Wolf looks like. Imagine that exact same look.

Attached: 34210157_1778175078910494_5057219378521571328_n.jpg (480x480, 44K)

>We're talking about design user. You know how furries sometimes draw Wolf differently? There, that's the idea.
wow, you actually have no idea what a fursona is. stop talking.

Attached: 1562819773716.jpg (494x628, 50K)

my nigga, Brawl Minus made me enjoy brawl for a few extra years to the point my disc reader gave out.

Attached: 1562924628814.png (215x291, 142K)

No, you're a retard who didn't get the comparison. The idea is that the design looks like someone's fursona.

based

did you keep your wii in a vertical position?

that literally just looks like wolf, retard.
i cant believe i have to explain to you that Wolf and every star fox character ever is by definition a furry.

Attached: Wolf_O'Donnell_Ultimate.png (1419x1325, 1.72M)

Because he was the only correctly designed heavy by virtue of having massive disjointed hitboxes, good frame data on ground moves, blatantly superior damage (21% ftilt vs 12% bowser ftilt, for example), good stage control, and all moves being able to KO at relatively low percents, along with a non-shitty recovery

it literally doesnt. a fursona is someone's anthro animal interperetation of themself. a furry is a character who is an anthro animal. who the fuck is wolf supposed to be a fursona of? you're talking out of your ass.

Again the idea flew over your head, I am not sure if you're intentionally being dense or just ignorant. Yeah it is designed after Ultimate Wolf, but notice how the face looks like it's done by a furry? Wide nosed, retarded "freckles" for whiskers, a non-sharp face and has the typical wide mouth? Yeah that.

It's not about Wolf himself but how he's drawn you fucktard. I don't want to use pic related but it's also an example. Again, if he is used as a skin it still has the same idea.

Attached: 1476863317944.png (1280x720, 638K)

>fursona = furry + persona, so basically an OC
It’s not that hard dude.
Also wolf is still furry shit

based and minuspilled

Attached: 1538396183506.gif (500x500, 800K)

They can work, like you said they just need armor. It’s why Bowser was so solid in PM, and why Yoshi is viable in melee.

Melee Yoshi is way bulkier than people think. 5th heaviest in NTSC and 3rd heaviest in PAL, beaten only by dk and bowser. Samus also outweighs Ganon and is in the top 5 heaviest for both versions, and she’s been on the cusp of viable basically forever.

>this guy is drawn like someone's fursona
>HURR HE'S NOT A FURSONA

Yeah I'm not gonna believe you don't get it, considering how often that criticism is used in this board. Also you clearly haven't been to the depths of hell, not meeting people whose fursonas are literally copyrighted characters.

>a fursona is the artstyle
Are you genuinely autistic?

that's called an artsyle, user. you're just baiting at this point.

Attached: janitordetected.jpg (508x524, 27K)

That is actually factually not true.

Please bathe, at least if you're going to leave your house.

Doing nothing is not an option, and by your logic of less options being better then it's better edgehopping as you are forced to look for gimping. I believe you are giving ledgehog too much credit, as with top tier characters in melee is just a wave dash away, which is instant and very hard to punish. (As a note, edgehoping gives less options to the one guarding, which in your post it can be good or bad, depending on what you say, as you say more options feel flat but less options for the guard is worse, but gives more options to the one recovering, which I say is better).

The feeling you give me with your observations is mostly "I like it because it feels better", as you say "more options feel flat". The problem is that more options force the players to adapt as your opponent can find new ways to get advantage over you. And if we come back to one of the reasons I said about why it was better, that being of giving more characters the leeway to recover as not all of them are good at recovering in other ways, it increases options even further.

I'm tired and don't want to regurgitate shit. I swear you people will be the same idiots who will use the same statement later on when some game gets remade and it features the same characters but redrawn, like Spyro.

Fucking Fursona ruining my Mario bros

Attached: 7C9B51CC-2E2E-4049-A846-17402DB4899C.png (800x600, 288K)

again, that's an artstyle, that's like you calling pepe a fursona because he's an anthro frog.

I think so? by the time that happened we already had a second one picked up for dirt cheap used

So was DOTA. And I think Portal started that way.

Hell even counter strike started as a halflife mod.

No the insult there is tumblr.

>it's almost like there's a specific shitpost for specific drawing!

fpbp. everyone that disagrees has unironically attended a smash tournament and thought it smelled fine

Attached: smash bros.jpg (640x1031, 108K)

You know if everyone is correcting you, chances are you’re a complete retard

Attached: 8703E959-3628-42D1-8BCA-E844082077DC.png (500x465, 77K)

Which again proves how full of crap the argument towards PM's "validity without Smash" is.

Modding is easier

Being completely dense intentional or otherwise doesn't make you right. The fact that you insist and even move the topic towards it is even suspect.

>everyone
>just two or three at most

In fact, this is the only time I've seen people suddenly giving a reaction to this, when calling poorly drawn characters as "someone's fursona" or "OC" elsewhere being fine. Imagine that.

That's the reason for the disc drive breaking, most of the times

And yet those skilled end up making fine games on their own merit.

if you mod a smash game and its not in the vein of brawl minus youre just fucking stupid, this tryhard shit needs to end

the only reason you're being called out on like this about what a furry and fursona is, is because you're factually wrong and retarded.
what you consider "fursona" is so subjective that nobody thinks you're right, because you're wrong. if you said this on any other website people would correct you like we are because you dont actually know what a fursona or furry is.
>inb4 hur dur muh fursona looking character
fursona is not how a character looks, it's a fucking persona that's an anthro animal, no wolf design ever is fursona because he's not based off of anyone. your mixing up fursona and artstyle.

I would agree with you if that drawing was a self insert but just wolf in a different edgy art style.

that's why I called it "someone's fursona", I'm glad you understand, because that's the point of that insult, unlike this user here

I don’t agree with you, you idiot.
If anything you just proved that you’re an ESL or have the reading level of a 5th grader

I don't think it's this. Quake 3 was great competitively, but CPMA was still well received and great.

but you're acting as if that design is the only furry looking design, when all versions of wolf is furry.

They actually look like their game counterparts.

Either you're a newfag or just dense then. "Someone's OC" is an insult to the artstyle because it looks amateur/fetish bait/not fitting/whatever low quality, which that Wolf skin is.

what do people see in ledgehogging. that mechanic was cheap and awful.

that doesn't make them any less furry
>fetish bait
star fox has been fetish bait since adventures, and wolf has been gay leather daddy furry bait since brawl

Yeah but at least they're official. We're talking about a PM skin.

You can mess up the l-cancel of your opponent by angling your shield.

The entire star fox franchise is furry shit. Complaining about a skin being too furry is basically the equivalent of choice a white guy and a black guy fucking you in the ass. Even if you complain about one of the options you’re still getting a wiener up your butt.

Skill.

and that invalidates my facts, how? because it's not made by nintendo? nintendo definitely has furfags making the character designs, you know.

I didn’t mean doing nothing was an option, I phrased that badly. I mean in a vacuum the recovery options are the same, it’s what the defender does that determines what is viable.

>just a wave dash away, which is instant and very hard to punish

That’s only feasible if they’re very close to the ledge, which opens up high or center/inward recovery options for the recoverer

This is situational, but I see recovery options as rewards for people who weren’t knocked far off stage or who DI’d very well. These options get less viable with higher damage as you’re sent further, but I see that as suitable punishment for taking a lot of damage.

>less options for the guard is worse, but gives more options to the one recovering, which I say is better

I think this is the crux of it, I like my games punishing. I want being offstage to feel like a real disadvantage, and being the defender to really feel like you’ve earned the upper hand.

>The feeling you give me with your observations is mostly "I like it because it feels better”

This is true, gamefeel and the ‘sense’ of flow is the most important part of a game to me

>The problem is that more options force the players to adapt as your opponent can find new ways to get advantage over you.

The recoverer has more options here yes. Like I said, I feel like opening and shutting a lot of options at once with positioning is more interesting than almost always having a wide set of options.

>giving more characters the leeway to recover as not all of them are good at recovering in other ways, it increases options even further.

It helps characters who’d otherwise be less viable, but I feel like that’s cause the ultimate cast was designed with this system in mind. In melee, characters with bad recoveries are bad at recovering cause theyre gimpable offstage. Trumping wouldnt help them.

I gotta sleep but this has been fun. Thanks for talking about game mechanics and not just arguing about furries

If the autocanceling in Ult was as fast as L or Z canceling, that'd be fine. It ain't.

I'm a literal poorfag who lives paycheck to paycheck, and sometimes I shower twice a day just because it's relaxing. It's not an issue unless you're taking 40 minute showers. My water bill has never been outrageous.

Money is not the issue

>you can't complain about something because it's "furry"
>moving the goalposts now

Imagine being offended that a game exists that you don't have to play

Attached: 1347564004021.jpg (252x244, 10K)

If something is furry shit than it’s furry shit. If you care too much about it you’re probably a furry yourself

Why settle for mediocrity when you can improve it

your opinions arent universal, user

Same, good night, and I do agree our parting opinions reside on what we like.

Nope. I'm looking forward to Ultimate Minus

Where the Belmonts can throw out twice the amount of projectiles with the frames cut in half

Where Marth's tipper does twice the amount of damage

Where Little Mach actually has aerials

then why are you shitting on PM for it? shouldn't you be attacking nintendo?

>moves goalpost

>Ultimate minus
>Ness’ pk has no cool down
>falcon punch hits on the 3rd frame
>ganon side b kills you first

>caring about Furry shit

But evidently they are shared.

grugg no like mods. grugg told by big nose to never modify anything he owns.

Attached: 1553782692351.png (485x443, 64K)

i'd be way more interested if NyxTheShield wasn't at the helm

how the fuck are we moving the goalposts? your bringing up all this straw grasping bullshit. you brought up the so called "fursona" schtick on something that isn't fursona, thinking starfox isn't furry, and art style is somehow a determining factor to what a fursona is. and we're calling you out on your blatant ignorance, this MarioTehPlumer levels of autism you're displaying of just not knowing what words mean.

>ganondorf's side b carries you directly off stage >after executing it ganon just teleports onstage and laughs instead of sd'ing

This.

This is why there are a billion Pokemon ROMhacks and fangames and barely any competitors, because it's much easier to add furniture to an existing building than it is to make a building from scratch.

>Taking showers daily is an unhealthy america only phenomenon.
If only.
If you smelled the average fatty walking down the streets, you'd WISH they took showers every day. Would be better than their current state.

>ganons side b can grab you even when your still invincible from respawning

>No jigglypuff
>No sonic
Looks alright.

there's a distinct difference between a typical anthro art and "muh furry fursona" low tier shit style user

but we know you're pulling "only furries care about that" card

>Snake has Brawl uTilt range back
>Meta Knight can use all of his B moves in the air without having to land after each one
>Melee Fox
>Marth grab range the length of his sword

People hate it because it's ANOTHER fucking pm clone when they could be doing useful things, like figuring out how to add character slots and mod in custom movesets so we can finally get back to the level brawl modding was on

I'm not sure which title you're referring to, but if this in the context of melee. Modding the game would be like patching it and we all know how our favourite online games can be ruined by patches. UFC is the only mod currently used because we don't want to hunt for the 1% special super controllers that Armada has.

The controller configuration killed the game. It should have been easier.

Stop being a closet furry and post good wolf art, if you’re an expert at anthro art.

literally any jap art

Then post it furry

Attached: c9266a60e0fdd558a783ca65cfec5281.jpg (460x614, 53K)

That drawing sucks bags of autismo dick
Post better art

How can you not afford to take a 3 minute shower

It had me until no more ledge regrabbing. That shit was annoying as fuck in Melee and Brawl. The rest of the changes look fun as fuck though

Looks fun. PM was smash kino.

call it a hunch but i think the pic is completely unrelated

it looks completely unbalanced, but it's a start

>ledgehogging
Why? Nobody likes that shit

I personally want costume slot expansion and SaltyNX first. There are some atrocious choices in some of the vUltimate costume department I want to correct, and as soon as the hacking and tools bypass the stupid limitations I can finally ditch Brawl costume making.
>give the Links better recolors
>give Mario/Doc and Luigi their more modern style face meshes from Odyssey instead of the awful GCN era style meshes they somehow still have (pic related is a mockup I've put together to show what I'd be going for)
>Phantom Ganon
>give Little Mac all his costumes back (and fix his SNES eyes to be green again)
>give Wario his missing Brawl costumes back plus two Wario Man costume slots if swag bone adding can be figured out
>TP Link (can probably just swipe Smash 4 assets for this)

Attached: ultimatemariofix-1-3.png (1280x720, 175K)

it makes recovery harder, and that's a good thing

It makes ledgeguarding easier, and that's a bad thing

>cutfags
still seething that everyone is here?

Attached: 1562824946573.png (310x416, 152K)

Imagine being this much of a faggot

nice try promoting your own mod, i’ve seen this shit before and its just gonna end up like another failed pm clone.

nope.

Well I’m probably going to be called an autist for explaining something in depth, but I want to explain why edgehogging(and not having ledge snapping) are good mechanics.

The off-stage game is more interesting with edge-hogging, in many situations. First, we should define these situations. These are the situations where the character recovering has multiple recovery options. Simplified, there are two ways to recover: Going over the stage and. going to the ledge. If the recovering character is so far below the ledge that they can only choose to recover to the ledge, they are practically dead.
Thus, ledgehogging makes games faster, since characters who get sent far below the ledge cannot recover. Now, this may sound like games become less interactive, that it becomes very easy to edgeguard, and that an off-stage character is simply dead, but I will later explain why this is not so.

Ledgehogging also makes games more interactive. If an opponent gets hit off stage in Ultimate, watch what they almost always do: they position themselves safely below the stage, and recover to ledge. This is a hard, sometimes impossible, recovery to challenge, since most characters hug the stage wall while recovering with an upwards hitbox, then snapping to the ledge before they can be hit. Therefore, the risk/reward of hitting a recovering character is not often in the on-stage player’s favor, and recovery is easy to execute.

Without ledgehogging and ledgesnapping, the character no longer has an easy way to recover. They have to mix up their opponent with their recovery, make them guess if they are going high, low, feint them, etc. This means that players have to learn to recover well, and learn how to cover their opponents recovery options. It also puts risk/reward in the on-stage player’s favor. It is still diffucult for an on-stage player to hit a recovering one, but the recovering player now has no braindead recovery.

If you’re a beginner that is still learning the basics, you can play with other beginners and have fun. You don’t need to become very technically proficient to start playing.

the image seems to be completely unrelated

I don't care if its balanced or not, having access to all these options is just fun to me. It's why my buddies and I always played project m, even just casually. It's just fun to move around in these games.

Attached: 1561171562124.jpg (500x420, 56K)

Honestly I could understand it if it were teens. Sometimes parents don't have the "you need to start wearing deodorant and showering daily" talk with their kid and it's up to them getting insulted at school to figure it out. If they instead get shunned then it never happens. By adulthood though, you should know.

>only interesting thing
>made pokemon trainer 3 characters
>Mewtwo
>Best Snake in any smash

>Being this retarded

I’m just skeptical of the airdodge mechanic. Might become aircamp city like Brawlhalla, granted, Smash doesn’t have only enormous stages like BH

>smash 4 had nearly infinite costume slots and they worked online with non-modded users perfectly
Those were the times

Without even giving you a view, lemme guess: it’s another team of NEETs artistically adjusting everything to mimic Melee again.

When will you idiots let go. Ultimate’s hit a great balance of speed and mechanics; Just add more stages and characters to the game, and stop trying to change everything.

Attached: 13649177-0F68-4BE4-A01E-D8BFCC8AED14.gif (590x251, 3.48M)

Replace Yoshi with Captain Falcon, Pichu for Mewtwo, Zero Suit Samus for Lucas (or Ness) and Rosalina for Ryu and you're all set.

I care more about them balancing characters officially. Give my boy Ridley some buffs. Nerf some of the overly stupid shit the top tiers have. I know they aren't broken but a few slaps on their wrist would help raise some other characters without ruining how good they are overall. Because there's no way in hell the balance team is going to buff everyone to be on par with the them.

It takes a tiny fraction of the skill to simply mod in some extra characters, over making a completely new game from scratch. Nearly all of these guys would be unable to accomplish such a thing.

This shit's just going to make the top tiers stronger.

>>made pokemon trainer 3 characters
they added a couple down specials and got rid of switching, whoop dee fucking doo
>>Mewtwo
granted
>>Best Snake in any smash
minus snake is better

>on the budget
You can make games for literally nothing these days a budget is mostly to port to systems.

Bingo
Except it's one guy

Doesn't the showrunner for this have some kind of autistic hate boner for Incineroar? I remember reading something about Project NX removing him in past threads.

Attached: roar.jpg (226x223, 8K)

Too soon for fan balancing.

>Melee can allow a ton of more costume slots per character if you're willing to replace trophy files and live with button combos instead of separate portraits on the CSS
>Brawl allowed 10 per character with cBliss (some characters like Ganondorf could have 20 since their slot numbering worked out cleanly for menu cosmetics ordering)
>recently Brawl was cracked further to potentially allow up to 50 per character if you can optimize the menu cosmetics
>Smash 4 offered (last I recall) up to 255 per slot
And now here comes Ultimate. Stuck at fucking 8.

hes a cutfag, yes

I can smell you from here...

Fpbp. Smeleesubhumans are SEETHING.

This. Smashers ITT are fucking seething at the thought of Old Spice entering their personal space

>he thinks it's a meme

Attached: 1476622421378.jpg (227x224, 33K)

Bowser, Ganon, Snake, ROB, and Wario are all really good in the new game

I would, too. Old Spice is foul, I'd rather use literally any other deodorant that isn't Axe.

Damn that's gay. Why remove features in a mod? At any rate, since 'roar is one of my mains, probably not going to bother with this mod. If it were me I'd just be adding in more sensible echo fighters, Metal Sonic, Octoling, etc. Do some dumb shit like bring back pokefloats too.

Attached: 1555551851145.jpg (1034x955, 72K)

Wrong, its one NEET and it borrows a lot of advanced tech from Melee AND Brawl. It even brought in airdashing from anime fighters

He's probably referring to how fanfaggots lash out any any criticism of Newest Product and fall back on "LE EPIC STINKY DAY XD" comments like the NPCs they are.

>competitive mod
Imagine thinking you are good at a video game by altering the fundamental ways the game functions so you are able to win

Wow, so he's autistic too.

>this shit was at Smash n Splash
What a fucking joke SnS is (although that should've been obvious the moment they decided to host a Smash tourney adjacent to a place with water full of cleaning agents). Wasn't SnS also where Lunchables forced his unofficial Project M rebalance pack in which he happened to win?

Because anyone that has tried hasn't been up to the challenge, you either end up with a solid low-budget but niche title, or a overblown over hyped ugly disaster.

I see 2 main issues. First is they all want to make the new melee, which really means the old melee with tweaks. A genre can't grow like that, it'll always be playing second fiddle to the real game. Sometimes a new mechanic is there, but it isn't pronounced enough to really make people go oh this is different. The character's functions are usually the only improvement, even though clones are common they are generally better thought out for a competitive experience. The second is design, no smash clone has figured out what makes an appealing aesthetic . You get 3 flavours, furry, wacky and moba. A fighting game needs appealing designs, amazing games never reach the heights they should cause people just didn't like how characters look. Slap City has a funny look, but it is hard to get that attached to a game of joke characters.

If a platform fighter ever does blow up, it will come from a team with a mix of big smash fans and those of other interests. A game that can create a visual style that appeals to more people while also mechanically being very distinct. To the point it can create a new sub genre like anime or 3D fighters did. Also waifus, you just gotta have good waifus if you want to do well.

Nearly all of these “pro” mechanics are unnecessary and autistic as fuck. The only ones I actually think should exist is Shield Dropping through platforms and dropping while running. I mean, how much of a sperg do you have to be to want LEDGEHOGGING back of all things outside of not being able to let go of it because it’s in Melee

Nah, ultimate, unlike brawl, doesn't need changing in terms of gameplay. It's more than fine on its own.
It'll be funny to see it get nuked by Nintendo like project m tho

Attached: Ridley lizard.png (1280x746, 308K)

>SFIII just like Alpha 2
That sounds fucking disgusting user, please don’t tell me it’s an actual thing

Attached: 4F8CAD65-EEFA-4D24-8B11-53692816F7F7.png (387x720, 390K)

that's cool and all but where's the online fix

obv it doesn't exist, but there were sffags (iirc alphafags) who hated iii onset

Well rainbow edition was an important part of SF2's life, it influenced where the series went. But the difference is it just added shit for fun, rather than we have to make it like older title! That's where smash modding falls down, even new ideas are always we need to make it faster and more combo heavy cause melee.

>DACUS
Disgusting

It just goes to show the lack of creativity of these people. Theres a reason they don’t actually work in the industry

Sakurai and co did a really good job solving the edgehogging problem with the trump mechanic. Instead of feeling like BS from a relatively easy and safe thing to pull off, it adds complexity to the conflict and gives you a chance to respond

>bringing back ledgehogging

why would anyone want this? it's literally "who gets to the ledge first wins".

Attached: deep concern.png (293x323, 168K)

Brawl Minus is the Rainbow Edition of Smash modding.

Hell 4 and Ultimate even take aspects from it

Not letting this post go unnoticed. Best comment in the thread. Naysayers try to claim that Smash is only played because of the characters, and that’s partially true, but people wouldn’t stick around if the gameplay wasn’t fun, compelling, and mechanically sound. Every fighting game (lets be honest, almost every game in general) needs appealing aesthetics and characters to motivate people to play it. SF and Capcom’s legacy is built around its god-tier character design from the 90s.

>why would anyone want this?
We 100% know why.

Autism.

cause "muh melee" had ledgehogging"

>nu-smash cucks dont even reply
what a shcoker

Ultimate is already 900x better than this shit.

fucking based and fucking redpilled

because it makes recovery smarter. you might have to mix things up and recover directly to the stage sometimes.
ledge trumping made the recovery game more boring because you go directly to the ledge almost every time

But you literally cannot make it to the stage all the time, so them hogging it is just fucking you over when you can't do anything. Not all recoveries can make it past the stage, hell, inceneroar's can barely make it to the ledge.

by that logic ledge trumping makes edge guarding more interesting, you can't just hang on to the ledge every time

>hang on ledge
>get free stock
i am the smartest player ever, everything was perfectly calculated

Will it remove the 6 frames of input lag and revert to the old buffer system?

Dont forget!
Shower again!
At least 5 times a day, otherwise your stinky to me!

5 showers a day!

>shield stopping
wow this seems like a bad idea. Ok, let's deincentivize actually learning your character's movement and how to properly space yourself and also just hand out free dash-ins. Great idea!
>wavedashing
I still fail to see how an unintended movement glitch is a good mechanic. No, Sakurai and his team did not leave it in because they liked it. They left it in because removing it would have required an entire reworking of the physics system which they did not have time for and because they didn't think people would notice or utilize it. If Sakurai supposedly condones it as Meleefags like to parrot, then why has it been absent from every game since?
>moonwalks
"we broke something with the other movement changes we made and now this really janky stupid looking thing can happen. It's not a bug, IT'S A STYLISH FEATURE!"
>ledgehogging
>no more free recoveries
More like "no more having to follow through, learn how to chase and play offstage, and properly cover recovery options. Ledgehogging was the absolute lamest, least skillful, and least satisfying way to score a kill.
>reverse hits
let's change the trajectory to be the opposite of the direction you're facing because MUH MIXUPS! Fuck logical and expected outcomes! Have a kill for facing the wrong goddamn way! Also, considering this kind of shit can already happen from time to time, I feel like this is going to actually be even more inconsistent and occur more often than you intend it to or fuck with trajectories even more.
>jump cancel grabs
Oh good lorn fucking no. There are already broken grab boxes in Smash. We don't need to make it worse by allowing them to slide.
>Air dashing
So does this replace airdodges or augment them to be cancellable, faster, and still invulnerable? If the latter, then that is retarded and makes punishing a bad airdodge impossible. If the former, then that's not so bad.

Wavedashing is a meme, edge cancelling is cool, and edgehogging just simplifies edge guarding against more horizontal recoveries

you can't just hang on to the ledge every time because they might recover over you instead
more mix-ups and reads are involved

with ledge trumping, there's less of that because you go to the ledge almost every time, except for certain characters like Ike and Snake

When is that ever actually the case tho?
99% of the time, the player recovering gets fucked over by the ledgehogger, and can't recover, because their recovery isn't fucking massive and can't reach all the way to the stage.

that only applies to characters that can bypass the ledge and land onstage, all ledgehogging does is fuck over characters with worse recoveries even harder. ledgetraps and edgeguards are a million times better than hanging off the edge

Trumping leads to more offstage fighting, which is the only argument needed to prove its superiority

If you want ledge hogging to be a thing, then ledge invulnerability should be removed entirely. The problem with ledge hogging is that if the character straight up doesn't have the ability to recover high and make it to the platform, then that stock is just straight up gone because the ledge hog is free if you know the timing, which isn't difficult to learn. It causes a massive shift in the tier list based on recovery alone. Remove invulnerability and it makes it much more character specific when you can take the ledge and some characters can't be ledge hogged at all so you really have to learn the matchup.

Also, part of why the FGC thrives IS spectacle. You can say you don't care about how fun it is to watch but the fact that people DO watch is part of why the community is as big as it is and shit like EVO even exists. It's part of why fighting games are even still made.

This mod is gonna go nowhere. Smash Ultimate is in a perfectly fine competitive standing and Nintendo will probably C&D the shit out of it.

PM worked because it improved everything wrong with Brawl and added more. Unless they can add the scrapped PM characters (Knuckles, Isaac, Sami and Skull Kid) there isn't a reason to give this mod the light of day

Attached: 1480020240535.png (877x901, 440K)

I don't care about this mod and one of the devs is a mega-faglord. That said, Jesus Christ Yea Forums, are you retarded. I would also bet they cannot fix landing detection, which has been cancerous and borked since Brawl. And no, PM never fixed it completely.

Considering how good recoveries are, forcing someone to go onstage isn't a big deal. It might actually encourage pressure rather than waiting at ledge to trap. Trumping is not really commonly used because it sucks.

Good post.

I was hopeful because of what you said about shield stop, which I think can be true. I think the current system is fine if they disabled the ability for people to buffer any dodge out so someone couldn't consistently land with a retreating aerial into a rollaway/spotdodge. You're dumb in regards to everything else though, especially reverse hits.

The only thing that Ultimate truly needs is for the input buffering to be reigned in a little bit.

>creativity
>fans know better than out of touch developers.
that's basically what I hate. A bunch of entitle nerds that think they are better because they mod and tweak some things here and there on a product that they didn't create and only a minority cares about. it's literally the "hire this man" meme. I like mods and the little thing they come up with but fags like that are just insufferable.

>Trumping is not really commonly used because it sucks
Someone hasn’t figured out how to read and backair after a trump

Attached: 4E761CAE-CCA7-42EE-A160-97DD8DE66903.gif (230x204, 2.61M)

the only thing trumping does is add the occasional trump+bair which is pretty cool, but off-stage play is still more rare
ledge trapping is fine but it still exists regardless, and isn't oversaturated

Someone who’s been trumped doesn’t get invulnerability after grabbing the edge again. That alone puts the trumper at a huge advantage if they don’t attempt a followthrough offstage, yet still gives the recovering player a chance to respond with a number of options (just at a big disadvantage)

They cut Incineroar. May as well have STEVE in at this rate.

This makes me think of the Mother fan project where the guy just had to ape the Earthbound formula, yet had the gall to title his project “Mother 4”

>cutting characters in a mod

Attached: wtfhelp.png (300x395, 195K)

>especially reverse hits.
How are my concerns about it not valid?
Like I said, every move has an intended trajectory so it makes no sense to intentionally break that just because you want to have the option of using it to score a kill when you ordinarily shouldn't be able to. If you're facing the wrong way to score a kill with a Fair, then you shouldn't be able to just magic that Fair into going the other direction. You should use a different move. Plus, like I said, fucky trajectories already happen from time to time and have since Smash existed. With so many variables, it's inevitable that things will add up to unexpected angles and directions every now and then and I worry that adding the ability to FORCE an unintended direction will only make that worse and produce even more unexpected outcomes to a blow connecting.

>your stinky to me
meleefags, gentles and ladymen.

This isn't Smash 4. You're way, way, way better off going for a ledgetrap the majority of the time because a trump working depends on the other person totally fucking up. It's a surprise option-- they can bypass it.

After watching the trailer, I don't like the airdash mechanic. Anything that can instantly change your momentum with essentially no commitment is terrible design. It's for this same reason I don't like wavebouncing as a mechanic-- doubly so in a game without proper momentum.
>hit snake into the air in Ultimate
>have to not only contend with f1 nades, but they can make him reverse direction at full speed

That isn't true at all. This game does not have more edgeguarding than Melee and Smash 4, a game with "better" trumping, has less edgeguarding than Ultimate.

Because it decentivizes spacing and you get really retarded shit happening like the back part of ROB's side B sending you forward anyways. Players should have to place their hitboxes intelligently to get the outcome they desire.

>hey let's make a good game shitty like melee!
>sounds good!

>mfw banjo with melee physics on 64 stages

Attached: 1560912103105.gif (496x487, 398K)

Enjoy you Shitmon Sword and Shield
Based

A: Because if you're Chinese, you can say fuck you to copyright jewshit
B: This once use to be a practice not done to spite, but to expand the options to enjoy a product, out of love and care (See Minecraft/TF2/Terraria)
C:Video related

Now it's for spite because fuck anything Nintendo. Especially they nigger fanbase.

Attached: 1562865895808.webm (1920x910, 2.96M)

>No Luigi, Mewtwo or Sonic
>But Dr. Mario, Pichu & Chrom
What are these people smoking?

Ness and Captain Falcon aren’t in it
Instantly dropped.
Mods like PM can be a fun way to play the game but Ultimate, unlike Smash 4 and Brawl, is actually good so its way less necessary here

Sonic is in there, look at the trailer.

The only cut I've heard about is Incineroar, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was more. Cutfags are terrible.

This is awesome, hope it takes off.

nintendo... why are you guys slacking when there are literally criminals abusing your hard work

No "You're too slow" no download.

And do we really need ledge hogging back?

>Ledgehogging
It's shit.
Every single fucking time one of these "Competitive" mods comes out it always ends up being a "DUDE LETS PORT ALL THE SHIT FROM MELEE EVEN IF IT WAS TOTAL GARBAGE :^)" mod.

Attached: Shite.png (675x467, 268K)

>Cutting characters
>In a mod
Why? Everyone says how mods are all about options, then wouldn't cutting a character be reducing options?

Because "balance mod" devs are cancer of the highest degree, user. The only good mod devs are the ones who make new content or gag content.

No, the creator is a dickwad and another showerless Meleefag.

It sad when you know this could actually have been the official route Smash could have taken but Sakurai had to beat that kid on SF and hurt his feelings.

No, because I don't have autism. People don't do this shit with games like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, yet they feel the need to mod Smash.

Wait wait wait wait wait
WHAT IN THE FUCK?!
Is this real?
Did they actually cut characters in a fucking mod?
Oh god I said this looked good too, the appeal of this thing in the first place is ultimate cast with melee mechanics. This is fucking garbage. I don't have a reaction image strong enough to show how disgusted I am.

I legit hope Nintendo takes this down.

Actually wait, does Nintendo have a history of getting these things DMCA'd? I'll cut his gay ass mod from existence.

Attached: 1562395293561.png (838x1220, 2.03M)

Play the game the way they intended you to, shithead.

This. If you care about "competitive Smash" you really need to take a shower with soap and shampoo.

Yoshi and Samus were good in Melee
Snake and DDD in Brawl
DK in Smash 4
And now the best character in Ultimate, Snake, is a heavy, and other heavies like ROB or Wario are also viable in competitive.

The whole "heavies have never been viable" shtick is BS

They usually DMCA stuff if it gets attention. That's what I've noticed, at least.

>It's mainly because Smash is a competitive game.
Wash your ass, smelly.

All that effort for something no one is going to play

Insecurities, a lot of them. For example, people that don't like L cancel are afraid to be called shit so they shit on mechanics instead of getting good (they are equally as shit regardless); or want to remove characters from the game because "the matchups gets too broad" despite never being in a level wher matchups will actually matter (tho top competitors had use this excuse out of salt and everyone that isn't a shitter laughed at their faces).
In the end is not wanting to be seen as not skilled in a Smash game because they think they are way better than they actually are, and that's all they have to hold onto in their sad pathetic lives.

it's adding ledge hogging because it makes the game more interesting, as explained in the thread

it is not adding shitty Melee mechanics such as unlimited ledge invincibility, chain grabs, wobbling, etc.

Ultimate already has a problem of almost everything being safe as fuck and punishing being impossible, this just exasperates that problem.

t. shitskin jihad man from britian

>Smash ultimate
>Half are clones
wew

>it makes the game more interesting
Only for the 10% of the roster who can recover high reliably, for most characters, it's basically a "I win" option as soon as you get a character off-stage without a second jump.

>players are rewarded for outplaying the opponent and knocking them far off-stage
and that's a good thing

take a shower and dilate

>renders most off-stage play completely moot
It's a bad thing.
Not only in terms of balance, but in terms of making the game fun to watch as well, there's nothing exciting about a ledgehog.

First off, your mindset of "Faster=better" shown off in the first paragraph is a faulty argument I've seen Melee fans throw around a lot, and it's not true
Ultimate's cast is balanced around said Ledge Mechanics. Characters act the way they do offstage because they were tweaked and created with that environment in mind. How would a character like Bowser Jr. fare in Melee, with no hitbox on recovery, no discourse if he gets hit. How about K. Rool, whose forced to go high nearly every time in a hypothetical ledgehogging scenario due to the vulnerability of his recovery from the sides and no option to act out of it.
The easiest discourse would be to change their recovery of course, but we're not talking about that. This is why it's fucking stupid to slap ledgehogging in Ultimate even though they have NO plans, or even the tools, to change recoveries or movesets outside of set values.
Don't complain about Snap and Trump in the same vein, since their two mechanics introduced at the same time rather then being one mechanic. I'd argue Snap should go in the current climate due to recoveries being very strong already. Most characters don't have hitboxes on recoveries that go far either. Most of the top tier has no hitboxes on them, they are who you see the most.
Also, your point about how people recover is wrong in high level play, ironically since there a many strong recoveries. You never see Leo's Joker barely goes below the stage consistently at all due to the Grappling Hook's reach. Top level Wario's almost never go below due to his UP Special recovery not going very far and the bike being amazing. Dabuz's Rosalina and Olimar barely go below stage. ESAM's Pikachu and VoiD's Pichu barely do either. It seems like conjecture on your part based on what the mechanics actually are rather then believable account. The only top characters I've seen HAVE to go below ledge is Inkling due to Roller being a mediocre supplement and their ridiculously big ledge grab box.

Except smashfags like myself don't mind it. It's not the biggest deal, but I make a shit ton of music mods to replace songs in smash. What this user right here says is basically what I feel though

The argument is mostly Super heavies actually, and Yoshi and Samus are neither, Snake and DDD are because of their strict deviations form the formula, and DK is due to 50% grab combo to death BS.

>meme
this ones not a dream

the absolute state of GAMERS

B&R

Hey lads.
Why is Project M so based

Attached: Project_M_logo.png (553x180, 70K)