Why didn't Sephi-bishi kill Cloud-kun right here?

Did you even play the game you absolute retard?

DID YOU???

This. Cloud literally solves the riddle of the Black materia and hands it straight to Sephiroth.

He should have killed him immediately after that, though

Yes
There was no reason to kill him at all, he was a perfect puppet and was better off alive
He kills Aerith because she was a legitimate threat

It was pretty clear cloud and avalanche were a threat, and after he got the Black materia he had no need for the clones. Should have killed them. He could have used the XP to level up the materia.

Although, to be honest, it might have been risky because Cloud and team were pretty powerful at that point, and Sephiroth literally just woke up

Sephiroth wasn't physically there, his corpse is encased in a big chunk of materia at the northern crater, so if anything the clones only have a very vague understanding of what jenova and sephiroth want done but also cloud is just another puppet at this point and why would you throw away a perfectly good failure

In Crisis Core Cloud fucks sephi bishi up though? So he should kill him to be safe.

>It was pretty clear cloud and avalanche were a threat
Not really, Sephiroth never viewed them as a threat, only Aerith.
Sephiroth sort of viewed Cloud as a joke too.
Non-canon
Also I never played the spinoffs, so I have no idea what happens in those games.

>It was pretty clear cloud and avalanche were a threa
in what way? what could either do to him?

Crisis Core is canon.

Everything that isn't FF7 is not canon.

Says who? You?

At most, Nomura says the spinoffs aren't included in the remake.

because no final fantasy game has a good story aside from parts of 14. 7 in particular is so fucked not even SE knows what's going on and fills it with constant retcons

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>because no final fantasy game has a good story aside from parts of 14

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>thinking its sephiroth the entire game when its really jenova using him as a memory

>good story aside from parts of 14
This doesn't have anything to do with Masuda(is this the guy?) taking material directly off of Ivalice right?

cringe

stop saying bishi you disgusting human being

you are most likely a white person who will never ever go to Japan

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>because no final fantasy game has a good story aside from parts of 14

t. mmo addict who plays a female catgirl or some shit

What? Final Fantasy up until 13 has had consistently fantastic story telling. Like that's the one thing the series is known for is telling a crazy fucking great story.

His goal was never to kill Cloud at this point, he isn't a threat to him at all.

>VIII
>IV
>XII
>fantastic storytelling

tell me which main FF you think has a good story and I will tell you why you are wrong. Even looking at golden age square, there were games with far better stories like vagrant story or xenogears. Hell even tactics, an FF game, had a better story than any mainline FF

>he isn't a threat to him at all.
>fucked him up in nibelheim

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Because YouTube is hiding Tifa from the suggested search engine and now she can't protect him.

He has been infected with Jenova cells that he can easily use to control him.

Asks Aerith's face how well Cloud can resist him

MOTHER

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>He has been infected with Jenova cells that he can easily use to control him.
another reason why 7's story is shit, the game conveniently forgets about this

>FATHER
FTFY

Why didn't Cloud fug Tifa right here?

>another reason why 7's story is shit, the game conveniently forgets about this
No it doesn't? After Madeel Cloud has regained enough control of his mind to resist the Jenova cells control. The very last fight in the game is him removing the hold Sephiroth had on his mind completely.

X

8 is good. 12 is meh. 4 is good.

that shouldn't have him resist the control, that makes no sense considering every other clone was under control

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Oh my god you're all retarded.

Sephiroth can't kill Cloud there because Sephiroth isn't real.
He's a figment created by Jenova to screw with Cloud and manipulate him into doing what she wants.

Sephiroth is literally dead for the entire game except for the flashbacks.
There's a reason every time you fight a boss after a Sephiroth encounter, it's a fucking Jenova part.

The whole plot arc for Cloud is realizing that he can be more than a tool for Jenova, and his solo fight with Sephiroth at the end of the game is a metaphorical battle inside his own mind, where he overcomes his obsession.

It's like none of you fucking children even played the game.

Can we all just agree that FF as a whole is garbage?

I'm gonna pleb filter you so hard

8

>doesn't notice the stonking great tits
M O T H E R

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I don't get it. I've heard this theory before but nothing supports it.

tell me why you think 14 has a good story

By the end of the game what fucking clones are left

user, do you seriously have no idea what is happening in this game?

None. The guy is retarded. Not to mention he's not factoring in the entirety of the circumstances surrounding Cloud being able to find himself again.

>the game conveniently forgets about this
except for the dozens of times the game shows it, refers to it, or the characters talk about it. sure.

Hindsight is best sight. No one knew what role Cloud would play in the world at that point. Why not kill every single Shinra personnel while you're at it? They were gunning for god level technology with mako and could certainly challenge whatever Jenova is.

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Because Tifa was ripping a monster deuce at the time and it would have been awkward.

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Yeah you've only heard it because you haven't played the game

the entire concept with the unsent is full of holes, you would need to turn off your brain to ignore it. The church's entire purpose falls apart when you realize the calm lasts less and less, at the point of FFX it's short enough that it can't be ignored

I don't even know where to begin here. I guess we'll start with the fact that a massive space ship appears out of nowhere when rinoa/squal are in space despite it not being in view moments earlier

a lot of attention is given to the world and many concepts are fleshed out. ARR and stormblood arn't as good in this regard, but HW and shadow do a good job.

Try playing the game, user. Sephiroth is frozen in the Northern Crater.

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Why is he naked?

He's not dead though he is acting as Jenova's brain.

none, though that doesn't answer why cloud could resist control

Well I want to say yes but square has changed shit so many times I don't think anyone really knows

there's no reason why sephiroth couldn't control cloud in the end other than because plot, cloud coming into grips with his emotions isn't an explanation it's bullshit

a detailed world and fleshed out concepts does not equal a good story. it's good world-building. they are completely separate things. you can have a great universe and a complete trash story.

>Unsent
?? I've never heard this criticism before. What's wrong with the unsent? It's just ghosts who haven't let go of their life.

>The church's entire purpose falls apart when you realize the calm lasts less and less

The Church is a conspiracy from Bevelle. Bevelle struck a deal with Yunalesca in exchange for becoming the world's biggest super power they have to perpetuate this lie. Bevelle does everything it can to make sure the population is Stupid and in the dark on everything.

His body was destroyed in the lifestream he was regenerating it with Jenova Cells and Mako.

I'll take good world building and middling plot over both being poor, hence why I said "parts of" 14

that user never said he was dead though, he said he wasn't real.
>cloud coming into grips with his emotions isn't an explanation it's bullshit
why?

>It's just ghosts
the problem is it's not, no one can tell auron is a ghost nor seymour when he "dies"

>perpetuate this lie
the problem is with the calm occurring frequently now they can't do this

you said parts of the "story" were good though. elaborate.

Sounds like you're nitpicking.

>what is mental fortitude gained by overcoming trauma and no longer having gaps in your emeory

>cloud coming into grips with his emotions isn't an explanation it's bullshit
>why?

because it doesn't magically remove jenova's cells from his body.

It removes the mental hold they have over him though. Some people can survive ebola. same difference

story involves plot, characters, and world

it may be nitpicking to you, but these are big issues for me. The entire point of the final summoning to bring false hope into the people of spira is moot once it starts happening every few months.

They haven't been. But he now has the mental fortitude to resist them.

a story is literally only the plot

having gaps in your memory filled doesn't remove jenova's cells from your body

ebola is not an intelligent alien light hivemind

that's a horseshit explanation, toxoplasmosis's effect doesn't stop because someone thinks hard enough about who they are

The same reason Shinra didn't kill him immediately after pumping about 300 bullets into Zack's face.

I didn't know ebola and toxoplasmosis controlled people's minds

it involves them, yes. but they are all separate components. just admit the story is shit, you just like the world and that you misspoke.

>ebola is not an intelligent alien light hivemind
Neither iare jenova cells in a foreign body. Just admit you don't understand the story

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It's a completely feasible explanation. He was being mind-controlled and now his mind is resilient to what was controlling him. You're just being a little cunt.

>Xenogears
My favorite part was when this wall of text pops up and the game basically describes a scene without showing it. Real kino storytelling for a visual medium.

>You will never share a cell with Tifa

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ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2526142/
this has been a pretty big topic of discussion

see

Tell me user, despite this aspect is Xenogears worth playing? I really enjoy most PSX RPGs

Seph didn't open the prison cell for them Hojo

>cloud coming into grips with his emotions
This is a drastic oversimplification of what being physically immersed in the Lifestream does to you. Sephiroth became powerful enough to remotely take over Jenova itself by swimming in the green shit for a while, it's easy to believe Cloud developed the ability to resist in the same way.

Did he invent the word? Then I don't have to accept his definition.

>cells, a physiological entity, are stopped by a psychological one
no

yes they are, that's quite literally the crux of the control sephiroth had on cloud

your chart proves my point. they are all parts. thank you. I'll accept your concession that 14 has a shit story and you can't name one good thing about it.

* Hojo did

>mind control
>WHY DOES MENTAL FORTITUDE HELP AGAINST THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND
Before that point in the game Cloud was mentally weak and easily susceptible to the lies and mind control perpetuated by Jenova. I think literally every party member talks about how something is wrong with Cloud. That stops after he stops being a vegetable.

nor do I have to accept yours

the chair shit sucks but the story is still far better

how have you not played it by now if you enjoy most ps1 rpgs?

True

Says everyone, none of the compilation material ever reached the game not even close lol

I understand all that happening, the problem is it's an unsatisfactory answer seeing as how jenova's cells still linger in his body

To add even further it's literally embodied with the very final fight of the game when Sephiroth attempts to take control again but Cloud demonstrates his power against Seph and knocks him in one fucking hit

You know you can uh... resist toxiplasmosis' """mind control"""

user, you being unwilling to accept the clearly demonstrated explanation is your own personal dilemma. I have no responsibility in soothing this burning concern of yours. The explanation was given. Accept it and move on.

how? by thinking long and hard about who you are? no, you take antiparasitics, which remove cells from your body

but the actual "queen" is gone you genius there is no seph or jenova anymore by the end of ff7.
He has cells in the same way you have neanderthal cells whoppdie fuckind doo they dont do shit anymore.

I've know the explanation from the start, my problem is it's stupid

If you say so.

then he shouldn't have been controlled from the start

Zack also had them but they didn't do anything.

Zack died before anything could be done to him. The Reunion hadn't started yet.

probably because he was fucking dead

jenova/seph who uses the jenova cells to mind fuck and control all the "clones" is gone.
There is no more control no more hivemind to control people.

What in the actual fuck are you on about here
>shouldn't have been controlled from the start
>When Sephiroth and Jenova are still very much "alive"

Why are you pretending to be stupid for (You)s? Can't we just have a normal FF7 thread?

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sorry, at what point do sephiroth and jenova die?

Hojo's report literally says that Cloud reacted to Jenova's cells while Zack didn't.

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due to the SOLDIER process cloud never went through. regardless it was before the whole mind control shit started

Isn't toxiplasmosis the one that makes you like cats and act more recklessly? Or at least, it encourages you to do that. You do the opposite of that. Do you think people with toxiplasmosis can't go and get treatment themselves? They aren't 100 percent at the mercy of those cells until outside intervention because there's no cell on the planet that can take into consideration conscious thought WHEN IT COMES TO ALTERING YOUR ACTIONS.

Biologically you're programmed to fuck girls as soon as their eggs hatch and they start shitting out aborted demon spawn. Whose the last 14 year old you've raped?

The call of the pretendtard is how they attract others of their kind for matting purposes.

who stabbed aeris then?

At the end of the game which again Cloud is mentally stronger at this point, and their control is at its strongest when Cloud is literally fractured mentally. Jesus Christ I can't believe we're going in circles here.

You're right
Tifa>Aeris

>acting more recklessly isn't altering your actions

>at the end of the game
there were multiple points before that and after the wheelchair shit mind control could have occurred but didn't

I actually am playing it for the first time and was curious why sephi-bishi hadn't killed squall. Also throwing in the bishi is guaranteed replies.

His goal at this point is gathering clones for the reunion. There's literally no reason for Sephiroth to harm him at all at this point, letting Cloud out accomplishes his initial goal.

>hasn't played past the point where this happens
>asks why it happened
do you really want spoilers for the story?

Jenova isn't a parasite like that. The cells are like nanomachines that respond to Sephiroth's call. Cloud was able to block the signal thanks to the Lifestream.

and

>Do you think people with toxiplasmosis can't go and get treatment themselves?
yes I literally stated it before, antiparasitics. which doesn't apply here

Stop responding to posts you don't fully read. You can not act more recklessly while under the effects of toxiplasmosis, it's an increased chance of, not a guarantee

He wanted to torment Cloud. Sephiroth has a huge boner for him and wanted him to suffer. Its why he attempts to make him kill Aerith when he could have jumped her ass himself.

BASED

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Jenova made a bee-line from the tank to the top of the building and then fled. She was trying to reuinite with Seph's body.

I know they are not parasites, but they are still cells and the same concept applies. Replace antiparasitics with antibiotics or whatever, the point still stands

>Cloud was able to block the signal thanks to the Lifestream.
why

aerithfags btfo

>Sephiroth has a huge boner for him
other way around, sephiroth doesn't even recognize cloud

Where did Sephiroth's sword come from if Sephiroth wasn't there? How the fuck did a headless Jenova do anything? Why didn't she do anything before that point? Why did she come over to Cloud's prison cell and open the door?

during the time of the originals release the consensus was that seph and jenova are fighting over control but its never established who ultimately controlled who this makes it actually interesint imo
But during later interviews some SE faces said seph gained the upperhand overtime and was in controll over jenova in the end.
So sephiroth killed her

Is who is in the cell with you affected by your choices? Otherwise I don't get your post. I said to Aerith that Tifa wasn't my gf.., I even took the flower from Aerith and gave it to Marlene

>before the wheel chair
Cloud hands Sephiroth the black materia and then the gang is captured and he's vegetated on a beach
>after the wheelchair
Cloud no longer has memory loss and has overcame his trauma
Fucking when dude
Did you even play the game

no thats SE animu seph not original seph

Was Sephiroth controlling Jenova or Jenova controlling Sephiroth

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It seems inconsequential at the time, but Cloud getting close to her seems to have awakened her.

The sword isn't really Seph's actual sword just another part of shape shifting Jenova. Presumably if you stuck around you'd see it disolve.

>How the fuck did a headless Jenova do anything?

She breaks out, and unleashes Jenova monsters that kill everything around her. The team only survive since they're in cages out of her way.

please try to follow along, the "trauma" shouldn't be freed from "memory loss" given jenova's cells are inside cloud. I'm responding to a post that says cloud shouldn't be controlled since they are dead but at no point between then and the end does that happen

this and the question if holy will wipe out humanity as well if used made some interesting conversations during the originals release time.
Then came the compilation lol which doesnt count lol

>the problem is with the calm occurring frequently now they can't do this

which is kind of central to the plot, and why tidus, the main fucking protagonist, who is also a imagination ghost, says go fuck yourself and decides to find a way to end it once and for all despite that meaning he will also cease to exist.

it's not really a valid criticism when the game itself and it's characters acknowledge this

does it even matter? both had mutual goals

Alright, that does explain monsters being everywhere I guess. And the cell door being open?

that's good on tidus, but the church should be acknowledging it as well. instead they ignore the shorter periods

Isn't it objectively Jenova in control? Jenova's cells demand to come back together, even dragging the bodies they're in with it.

I firmly believed Sephiroth had a delusion of control over Jenova, or more likely, they were one and the same. Jenova is not a really a "sentient" creature, it can mimic and copy, but all it desire is to eat. I Sephiroth's desires and Jenova's instinct became one and the same, and thus "Sephiroth" becomes the next evolution of Jenova.

It's like Nothing There from Lobotomy Corporation basically.

>"trauma" shouldn't be freed from "memory loss" given jenova's cells are inside cloud.
And again, overcoming that shit made him resistant to their power
And what the fuck are you using air quotes for when these are things that happen in the game and are explicitly referred to

I always assumed it was Sephiroth in the North Crater controlling Jenova's body while her cells influenced him and drove him nutty.

because they were corrupt. were you not paying attention? even auron outright calls the maesters out for being fucking power hungry faggots in several cutscenes.

>Just ignore having to play second fiddle to a gang of obnoxious mary sues for about 120 hours dude then you get EPIC FUCKING DRAGONS

Not him but I always assumed it was a technical malfunction

there's a blood trail right to it

Not at first, but later on he starts referring to Cloud by name and starts messing with him more directly.

Either Cloud killed her or Jenova did, and Cloud just internalized the whole thing as being "sephiroth did it".

"You are just a puppet."

Oh, I guess she new Cloud would be a valuable asset then.
It has been years since I played it so I forgot a lot of things.

This is a normal FF7 thread, the plot is full of shit that's incomprehensibly written, filled to the brim with constant retcons from future ff7 works that not even square has a handle on the story

Malfunction due to fighting monsters. All the guards get slaughtered.

I know they're corrupt, but the whole calm shtick they use is at and end, or coming to it very quickly.

>retcons from future ff7 works that not even square has a handle on the story

they dont matter to the original game and are just for milking cash.

The vanilla game has a complete story and ending anything added or substracted for the most part by the compilation make it worse and they added it because otherwise there would be no compilation and no money to be made.

Sephiroth is a shit villain if he's just been dead the whole time and being controlled by an evil alien.

>they don't matter to the original game
Clearly square thinks otherwise since the remake ai incorporate concepts from them

The point is that he isn't the villain. Hojo is.

kind of the point of the entire arc, my guy. the whole reason you're fighting the church to begin with.

I don't remember the dialogue too well, but I'm pretty sure Sephiroth has no idea who Cloud even is. It was the point of his character, I thought, that he'd be this terrifying force that's a personal trauma of Cloud's, yet doesn't even notice his existence outside of being a clone.

We don't know how and it's useless to speculate on it.

>It was the point of his character, I thought, that he'd be this terrifying force that's a personal trauma of Cloud's, yet doesn't even notice his existence outside of being a clone.
Are you stupid? Why would Sephiroth have to know him personally to effect him? He slaughtered his entire village, he doesn't need to know his name.

well obviously they try to make "fans" happy who never played the original but did played other compilation stuff. So i dont see the big issue hell i am sure they make zacks death closer to crisis core than the og game.
FF7 is 22 years old my dude many people and basically most children that will buy the game never played the og game.

Because Cloud considered him a friend

This. Also Reeve is the real hero.

Play the game user.

I did.

Are you fucking stupid?
My point is that for Cloud, Sephiroth is the stuff of nightmares.
For Sephiroth, Cloud is just clone #21. Literally irrelevant outside of bringing him the materia.

cloud is more delusional than he is an amnesiac

one thing most can probably agree is that the translation was really crap lol

and it's a flawed arc, the church should have found another method since this one was at an end. The reality is they had to make "the calm is getting shorter lol" for no reason because without it the church would be in the right

Why is New Threat such a bullshit fucking mod?

do it again and pay attention this time

prior to the nibelheim incident

>because no final fantasy game has a good story aside from parts of 14

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What exactly is wrong with my statement?
Yeah

Seph had no clue who Cloud was. Cloud was Shinra Grunt #231 for him. He only knew Zack.

they literally were using the Crusaders and Al Bhed to do just that, though internally knowing it wouldn't work, just to instill some sort of hope, introducing despair, to instill more power in the church.

They were "trying" other methods even though they knew they weren't really doing it to actually defeat it, because yevon didn't actually want sin gone. that is the whole point.

Yeah I know.

No. You didn't. Because you seem to be under the illusion that Cloud considered Sephiroth a friend, which isn't true. That was a statement he made when he still confused his own memories and experiences with Zack's.

>because no final fantasy game has a good story aside from parts of 14

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problem is all of that is going to end, including their control, and they know it; only seymour wanted that because nihilism lol which has problems of its own because seymour's character is never fleshed out

you really swayed my opinion

>Because you seem to be under the illusion that Cloud considered Sephiroth a friend, which isn't true.
Fake memories or not, He still considered Seph his friend for half the game.
And that is how the game treats his, albeit onesided, relationship until the Reunion.

seph was the reasone he wanted to join soldier but all the interaction seph had in the flashback have been with zack hmm

>you really swayed my opinion
you're beyond saving if that's an opinion you choose to have. I'm just here to laugh at you.

Nobody is trying to sway your opinion.
They are just laughing at it.

Cloud spends half the game hunting Sephiroth to kill him, that is as far as there relations go as far as plot matters.

Backtracking

>you really swayed my opinion
No gives a fuck what you think

no he doesn't, he hates sephiroth ever since the nibelheim incident

From what? What the hell are you talking about?

Jesus fuck you people are braindead

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my dude, half the people controlling the church were already dead. they didn't give a fuck so long as sin was still around killing people

also i agree seymour was never really truly fleshed out, but that was the whole thing. what they do explain was that there was always something off about him. he was in all regards autistic

iirc, the Sephiroth you see outside of the crater is actually Jenova impersonating him. The real Sephiroth is chilling in the crystal waiting on the black materia

I think treating Sephiroth and Jenova as separate characters is a mistake. To say Jenova is impersonating him is not accurate. That is the real Sephiroth using Jenova's original host body as his avatar as his original body was in the northern crater. Jenova and Sephiroth finish each other's sentences they are essentially the same character at that point.