Things you hate in games

Epic level warriors and archers are exactly this
They are still nothing compared to epic level wizards and sorcerers hovewer.
Be a legendary hero as much as you want, compared to someone chilling in his own demiplane for all eternity and being able to nuke a country on a whim you're still nothing.

In most RPGs worth shit magic and elemental weapon is vastly superior to simple physical.

You
>HURR DURR THE HUMAN BODY CAN'T DO DAT
Also you
>My completely made up mystical powers can do whatever I want cause it's totally fictional silly. Stop applying real world rules to fiction. :^)

Elemental weapons are trash tho

Mages specifically study the ways to bend reality at expense of their own martial skills.
If you want to be a superhuman warrior, be a warrior who takes caster dips or a weeaboo fightan.

>non-casters are underpowered next to casters for decads
>"what if non-casters grew to have supernatural physical capabilities?"
>"no that would be ridiculous"

Mages don't study shit because it's not real. "At the expense of their own martial skills" is completely bs because if everyone could throw fireballs, military fighting wouldn't be swords and shields against mages, it would be all mages (see: invention of firearms).

On the flip side, if your argument is that only intellectual people have the capacity for magic (e.g., Warhammer Fantasy) then you have to acknowledge that average mages > average warrior and that your game/fantasy universe is inherently unbalanced and unfun.

If we wanna go with realism, it's easily possibly for someone get fucking jacked and be martially skilled and be just as incredible of an intellectual. It takes arguably way less work become strong physically and build fortitude than it does to learn magic in the exact same time span, so literally nothing is stopping a typical stock wizard from becoming a Muscle Wizard.

Autists still carry the retarded JOCKS = WEAK DUMBOS IN MY REALITY shlock that's been perpetuated for nigh 40 fucking years now, and it's just as retarded as claiming someone who works out a lot is incapable of doing any sort of studying in their other free time.

>Mages don't study shit because it's not real
They study inside the setting.
>"At the expense of their own martial skills" is completely bs because if everyone could throw fireballs, military fighting wouldn't be swords and shields against mages, it would be all mages (see: invention of firearms).
In tabletop settings low level mages are extremely vulnerable against martials who can reflex save against a fireball and rush into their faces, any sort of discrepency only appears when your mage is high level but for one high level mage there's literal armies of warriors.

An average mage is indeed better than an average warrior, but also way harder to find or replace.
Sorry for being expendable if you refuse to learn arcane arts and integrate them into your warrior, i guess.

There's a reason why the strongest classes in Baldur's Gate are dual or multiclassed martials-casters. But those are supposed to be extremely rare because they require you to be a literal turbochad good at everything and with good enough stats to support everything. A typical wizard simply doesn't have enough in physical stats for it and when they grow in power they would rather put more points into caster stats than in anything martial-related.

>Sorry for being expendable if you refuse to learn arcane arts and integrate them into your warrior, i guess.
Lmao, already refuted your entire point. Read the second part of my post.

Unironically who cares about class balance in tabletop? You're playing a character, not a statistics spreadsheet.versus someone.

If you're so upset, just play a 5E Barbarian or Paladin and pound every mental-stat class into the dirt (except Druid lol).

>vidya
Dark Souls 2 playing a swordmage was great because not only was magic super buff, but stat softcaps meant you ended up getting better melee damage splitting 40/40 body/mind with infused weapons, rather than 80/0 pure phys. And that was before weapon buffs like Magic Weapon and the like

There's nothing to refute. If it's not fun for you, stick to low magic settings. Don't bring this shit to settings you dislike. But there's a reason everyone and their mother hate the homogenized shit like 4e or PoE.

>game has a nice gimmic
>it disapears one thrird through

>Dark Souls 2 playing a swordmage was great
It was great at expense of everyone else. Melee builds needed two fucking rings to reach the optimal physical damage output while needing more points in physical stats too compared to elemental builds.
But then again, DS2 is just ass backwards and broken in every way possible.

I play a Druid dumbass.

My condolences, tree hugger.

holy shit that was some dumb fuck retard post that I just read thankfully I will just ignore it now.

Pure phys builds were easier to get off the ground early, and actually optimal with mundane infusion late-game. Plus you also get top-tier phys-only weapons like the Santier's Spear

>two rings
Every build needs four rings lol, you don't think mages were filling out their shit with +spell damage and +attunement?

>more stats
Not really, because they didn't need to put points into attunement. You could go 60 into STR/DEX to hit the second softcap and put the extra 20 into equip load.

Let me know when you have a comeback

user literally anyone can balance good studying and workouts. You shouldn't be doing more than a total of 2 hours a day doing both, if even. Just because most austists who play DnD are too fucking lazy to do basic exercises and any decent studying in school doesn't mean a typical fucking wizard is just as blatantly retarded enough to limit their fucking potential because HUR DUR IF IM NOT SPENDING EVERY WAKING HOUR IN A BOOK ME BRAIN NOT GET SUPER BIG.

>Pure phys builds were easier to get off the ground early
Absolutely not true. The easiest way to reach monstrous damage output in DS2 extremely early is getting dark weapon, dark infusing your weapon and buffing it. Whole procedure requires under an hour and leaves you with UGS tier damage on your fucking bandit axe or rapier.
Also mundane was nerfed to shit long ago and santier is a pretty mediocre weapon viability wise.
>Every build needs four rings lol
Nah. Elemental buffer doesn't thanks to penalties on RoB.
DS3 did rings the best. Casters sacrifice 3 slots for huge ranged damage output. Martials can do whatever, but elemental martials are not strictly superior to physical ones and they share the amount of free rings.
>Not really, because they didn't need to put points into attunement
Attunement at worst requires under 10 point investment. The whole game can be bulldozered with just a weapon on base stats, 1 slot for a buff and base requirements for said buff (or none in cast of flame weapon).

>games has de-buffs and status effects
>hit rate on enemies is like 1%

>game has debuffs and status effects
>they're extremely useful for both normal enemies and bosses
>except for the secret boss greatly resists them and randomly clears all status and debuffs at the end of every turn

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>that one game in series that is fellated by fans to no end despite having the worst ailment and debuff classes and system

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Overly complicated ("unique") skill systems, having to suffer through some JRPGs until the system comes naturally can be a pain to the point of dropping the game.

>game has debuffs and status effects
>they're extremely useful for both normal enemies and bosses
Arbiter's seal did this very well.

>Turning around and taking the same road back on a fetch quest
>Bland, uncreative text and dialogue
>Finishing a long dungeon only to realize doing it out of sequence was game-breaking (open-world)
>Killing a character only to realize later it's game-breaking
>7/21 skills clearly have an advantage
>Devs know this but don't balance the leveling system for weaker skills
>Having to cast spells uncreatively to raise level, grinding

Funny I'm thinking of one game in particular

game?

>enemies scale to your lvl
I just have so many experiences where this doesn't work out very well

And causing natural disasters with spells isn't?

Why on earth would you assume a fantasy swordsman not have those things in the first place? Thats why we think its ridiculous for non-casters to have no fantasy skills in fantasy.

The point of the sort of typical d&d stuff is to replicate tropes from fantasy narratives, where people do super human feats ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

>Level up
>Enemies are now have better stats, but your gear has worse stats for your level.
Why be an RPG at all at that point?

abyssal princess is a cunt

Who knows, but ffxiii, bethseda and some other games just didn't have it work out, like at all, GW2 did have it work to a point, eventually the amount of people just broke the scaling. Sadly their dungeons were shitty due to a number of design flaws.

Oblivion

>Why on earth would you assume a fantasy swordsman not have those things in the first place
Because the setting we're talking about don't work this way. Martials can have fantasy skills, they just need to actually learn them and there's a multitude of ways for them to do it. There's a multitude of martial classes that already has access to spells and spell like abilities if you want.

What setting are we talking about? OP didnt declare a specific setting, only a complaint that people only give casters the fantasy moves. Theif should be able to double jump and teleport, and warrior should be able to force aggro or harden skin. Easy

>What setting are we talking about
Dnd and settings spawned from it, of course.

What setting? One that revolves around magicians only having the fantasy moves? Its not a staple virtue to insist magic only belongs to one specific class, you can do whatever you want writing a fantasy setting, especially for a game, so dont act like superhuman warriors can't be done

>What setting
The one that's older than your family and more influential than any shit game you can think of.
>you can do whatever you want writing a fantasy setting
Yes, including making an overbalanced mess that would please no one like we've already witnessed with 4e a decade ago.
>so dont act like superhuman warriors can't be done
You're as dumb as the warriors you're talking about.

So DnD has magic rules and some works are derivative of DnD, so what? How is that a proper rebuttal to a guy saying its disappointing when fighters have less fantasy than mages?
Furthermore, DnD literally has supernatural fantasy warrior classes with cataclysmic energy attacks

>all setting must obey DnD and anyone who wishes they didnt is disrepecting DnD's authority and law as the prime fantasy media
No

Sorcerer is better than any dual class.

>How is that a proper rebuttal to a guy saying its disappointing when fighters have less fantasy than mages?
There's a good rebuttal in form of "play other games in other settings and don't complain about what a lot of people loves", user.
>Furthermore, DnD literally has supernatural fantasy warrior classes with cataclysmic energy attacks
It's almost like warrior fags can't even read my posts.
Amazing.

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In the Elder Scrolls lore the Redguards once had a sword technique, not magic, which basically split atoms and caused nuclear explosions. It all comes down to the world builders choice, when my friend was running his homebrew campaign he made sure there were certain enemies that were either physically resistant or magically resistant to give each of the different playstyles something to do

Dude who cares? Youre literally denying class variety in video games because youre too overprotective of how you know to multiclass in a tabeltop game

user, nobody stops you from playing with rulesets you like. Just don't be surprised that they don't have as much following.

>Youre literally denying class variety
No, if anything, i'm advocating for dips and class combinations.

Nothing is better than a berserker mage. Nothing.

So youre offended he said he likes suoernatural options for warriors in games, because its an insult to your enjoyment of DnD? Like he's trying to change it? I guess, its just there is room for both so don't go throwing around your DnD elitism as if its rules have to go into other settings. Either way your argument is entirely semantic because you're needlessly differentiating between magic and fantasy warrior abilities, which are abundant in DnD, when OP only ever remarked on settings that lack fantasy physical attacks.

>swing a sword at someone making good contact
>it does no damage to their model
>the weapon doesn't actually cut
>every single bladed weapon is just a dull club you rap them with until they fall over

>FPS or any kind of shooter action game
>game doesn't try to implement a realistic damage system
>enemies can be bullet sponges at high levels
>enemies can eat multiple headshots without being effected
>gun sounds are terrible, making them all feel doubly ineffective, nothing has any punch to it

>any game with a magic system
>throwing a fireball has no meaningful effects
>nothing is actually burned, enemies can eat tons of fireballs like its nothing
>freezing is just as useless, nothing is frostbitten, no real damage is done to tissue
>magic is just throwing different colored rocks at enemies until they fall over

I don't think any game dev out there really knows how to make satisfying combat.

Your argument is entirely semantic, with the idea that any physical attack with fantasy elements must only be achieved by multiclassing. I could just have an Angel class with a flaming blade, or let my shield guy expand his shield size. Being so picky that it must be called magic isnt always necessary

>Wooden Sword
>Bronze Sword
>Iron Sword
>Steel Sword
>Silver Sword

Okay

>Wooden Bow
>Bronze Bow
>Iron Bow
>Steel Bow
>Silver Bow

Why does Fire Emblem still fucking do this? Has no one on the dev teams THROUGHOUT THE SERIES ever bent a fucking piece of metal? Have they never touched a piece of wood?

how would you do bow weapon tiers then bowfag?
and don't give me non of that fiberglass polymers bullshit because that doesn't exist in FE

to your second point, Deus Ex 1 was pretty good for its time, the body was split into head, torso, each arm and leg, shoot the head and they will usually drop in 1 shot. All the guns are deadly, just the level of skill you have in each weapon class affects the aim not the damage

>So youre offended he said he likes suoernatural options for warriors in games
I'm not offended about supernatural warriors. I'm offended when someone demands his basic bitch with sword and board who never took any arcane lessons to have arcane knowledge out of ass when eldritch knights and magic archers actually train and study for that shit. You play as a pure martial class, you hit stuff good and tank stuff well. Having actual class diversity is what separates systems like that over homogenized garbage with universal access to special abilities.

pine, oak, yew, composite, enchanted

>bullets do less damage than punching

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Fuckin dnd

t. only plays normieshit

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Makes sense in many sci-fi settings if they have forcefields like Underrail. Basically refer to Dune.

>99% chance to hit
>miss
>gets killed by counter attack/overwatch

Its just crazy to me that because someone says they dont like flat archetypes which disallow magic physical attacks, a DnD fan says no he has to like mature and like simple monoclasses, because DnD allows multiclassing. Isnt there a paradox here?

DS1 greatbows are ass and do ass damage though. It weren't until DS3 before they actually made you feel like a fucking juggernaut firing a rocket propelled grenade.

>I wish they let warriors use magic in games where they dont have magic
>uh okay kid, try building you class better in DnD next time
Huh?

Deus Ex is okay, I just wish that kind of thing actually evolved. I'd like so see sim tier damage mechanics become standard, just built in, behind the scenes. Shooting someone in the upper CNS should cause them to immediately collapse, fall into awkward crumpled positions, totally incapacitated. Death should come slowly over time from blood loss. Shooting someone numerous times in non vital areas should cause them to bleed out, and the effect should be visible like them going pale, and slowly falling unconscious.
My biggest pet peeve is that actions just don't feel like they have any consequences. The mechanics don't have to be the focus of game, but there needs to be a baseline of believable cause and effect.

Hunter: CotW has a detailed damage model on the animals, hit a deer in the lungs it will run off, becoming slower and slower before eventually bleeding out, shoot one in the leg and they will limp around but rarely bleed out from a minor flesh wound.
Mordhau is a decent melee fighter game, run into the enemy in no/light armor and you will lose your head and probably a limb to a good swing, but in heavy armor you truly feel like a knight of yore, you are slow but nigh unstoppable unless the enemy is packing a large weapon or an armor rending weapon such as a maul/mace/war pick
Magic...I have no recommendations, i don't really play mages and i can't really expand on that, but from what i remember divinity original sin had a decent magic mixing mechanic which let you combine your spells together and with environmental hazards to achieve your goals easier

>game has elemental strengths and weaknesses
>there's no way to change equipment during combat

which basically means unless the bosses weakness is very clearly obvious (lava boss, ice boss etc.) you have to know in advance what the boss is actually weak against

I dislike how skill growth of warriors is just getting the same sword swing that does more damage, meanwhile mages go from fireball to a barrage of meteors. Warrior's should end up turning from a dark souls character into a platinum character with quickstepping, SPEEEEED, and huge hitboxes. The pinnacle of the warrior playstyle is vergil from DMC in my opinion because not only is he fast and powerful, he can also summon more sword. Warriors should be able to go full sora final form.
People who use realism as an excuse are all faggots, because there's nothing realistic about the portrayal of combat, magic and character interaction in DND.

I think it should be fair to mention that casters aren't the omega reality benders people make them out to be in d&d
they can do some things but holy hell do people exaggerate to hell and back

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>jungle level
>fire weapon is super effective
>boss is in a temple
>boss is located in a lava chamber
>fire damage heals the boss
>fuck

Villains and npcs are the reality benders
not the player character

The whole mindset of strength, speed, and dexterity being separated needs to be done away with.
Any warrior who is a veteran of battle isn't going to be a slow moving but impossibly strong retard. A strong warrior is a fast warrior, a fast warrior has the dexterity to excel in complex swordplay techniques. Reflexes and fast footwork would go right along with the ability to cut through people.

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I thought it was always accepted that
>fighter = good at all times
>wizard = weak beginning but very strong late

Play in good games.
In BG2 your mage is a legitimate reality bender thanks to Wish, time stops and other shit.

i'm not talking about video games
and yes I already played bg2 as a sorcerer shut the fuck up holy fuck

>one stat is brutally more powerful than all the other stats in the game

intelligence in fallout man

Item durability.

>"hurr hurrrr equipping this item once will cause it to break when u take it off.... so use it wisely"

>you get so comfortable with a good weapon, but it's not gonna last long and ends up breaking eventually

>vehicle breaks down if you run over an ex amount of enemies

>shield made of the strongest metal ends up breaking eventually

This mechanic is tedious, redundant, etc and makes the game unenjoyable after awhile.

wishing in the context of baldur's gate does not alter the reality. It acts within it. And in the context of d&d no matter how much magic you use you can bet your ass Mystara is not gonna enable enough ''fuel'' for you to alter reality

>Game has elemental weapons
>Weapons don't have particle effects of said element, they're still metal weapons just with added elemental damage.

in d&d you can cast spells to go to different planes

That is not altering
that is visiting

Compare a 9mm or a .22 up against a fat-fuck-swole man punching with intent to kill, and you'll realize a fist from that is just a slow bullet
youtube.com/watch?v=a9BWjtFZJe0

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>skim thread
>mage vs warrior bullshit
never changes

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Different woods. They don't necessarily need to have a real world equivalent like pine or cedar or whatever

>Monk
>Based on Shaolin, almost wholesale
>"These unarmed warriors..."
>Ignoring that Shaolin monks have fucking billions of weapons and forms for those weapons

If you ever go visit Shaolin Temple in Henan or Hunan or whatever fucking province it is again, there's a little town just up the street from the temple where all the students practice, and it is fucking surreal to see all these kids walking around with swords and maces and shit.

Also, the restaurant in that town has the best sweet and sour pork you've ever goddamn had.

me monk
me punch

Wrong. Your ability to swing a sword adds nothing and loses out on spell progression speed. You have party members and summons to do the finishing blows