Kotaku's being gay as always:

>Filed to: WORDS

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exploratory platformers
it gets the point across while being concise and building off of an already established genre, like you'd do with music genres

>MetroidVania
>sounds gay
guess you find "quirky and smart game titles" cool, uh?

What genre is Cave Story?

>it's a prescriptivism episode
classic pleb move

>Kotaku's being breeder as always:
ftfy no need to thank me

>retarded game journos trying to claim genre names are bad because they're not immediately descriptive
These are the same chucklefucks that were too retarded to use the established "light RPG" and "console RPG" terms to describe what are now known as JRPGs, yet continue to use "WRPG" to describe literally any game made in the west or with a non-anime aesthetic instead of the far more descriptive ARPG, cRPG, etc

Stupid but the term Metroidvania does need to stop being used for different reasons because the "Metroid" and "Vania" parts have diverged in meaning.

Dead Cells is an example of a good Vania but a very poor Metroid. It has no meaningful permanent progress mechanics.

Obviously a "Side-Scrolling Platforming Shooter/Action Exploration" game

Or how about we continue using these terms because they're perfectly servicable and people use far more retarded terms like calling Diablo clones "ARPGs" or calling Mass Effect "WRPG"

i will pee in your butt

Stop masturbating

It's called Metroidvania because you should play both Metroid and Castlevania

Imagine getting upset over shit like this. You're mentally ill OP get a doctor and a fuckin hobby

>gerne is based on game mechanic
>AGAIN
How do video games keep getting away with this?

But I don't want to play Metroid or Castlevania!

This isnt bad
Please don't use incel buzzwords outside of the incel containment URL. Lose weight :)

obviously so that "journalists" know what games they need to skip to watch an LP of instead because they hate gameplay

>they're perfectly servicable
No they aren't. It's on the same level as DOOM-clone and Soulslike. Anything that relies on knowledge of specific brands is stupid.

isnt this article the same sort of 'gatekeeping' they complain about so much?

How is Mass Effect not a WRPG? I agree with ARPG because by the actual name it implies Mass Effect or Skyrim is one but it's not what we usually think when we see ARPG.

Proposal: Rename every other genre instead. Marionic, Grand Theft Skyrim, Doomlo, FIFDEN2K, etc.

Kotaku are fucking awful, but games that aren't Metroidlike Castlevanias should indeed not be called Metroidvanias.

>It's on the same level as DOOM-clone and Soulslike
So, perfectly serviceable?
>Anything that relies on knowledge of specific brands is stupid.
Not when those are games that literally everyone should have played and if they haven't they're too casual to care about that genre anyway.

why do you have to redefine shit? it's a name, it's been used for nearly two decades now, who gives a shit what the source of the noun was, it has a definition and serves a purpose now, just let it be and stop being autistic cunts about a fucking genre title.

Mass Effect is a JRPG

>attempt to capitalize on dark souls craze by trying to find similarities in other games to write clickbait articles for
>new vague terminology created: souls-like
>oh but this other vague terminology not manufactured by us sucks so we're gonna write articles trying to revise history and shift goalposts to suit my needs
video game"""journalism""" and """industry"""

Gatekeeping is ok when it's something they agree with. It's not ok when they don't. Get the picture sweaty?

>How is Mass Effect not a WRPG?
Because "WRPG" as a term replaced "CRPG" (classic RPG) because Journalists are retards that can't handle remembering more than 2 subgenres. Mass Effect is not a CRPG, it's an TPS/ARPG. By any metric that ME counts as a WRPG/CRPG, so too does Shin Megami Tensei.

Misses the important element of gathering new abilities to unlock new areas.

The ""journalist'" just complains that normalfags don't know what metroidvania means from a glance of the word. But let me raise you one.
Role Playing Game
In mario, you play a role.
In doom, you play a role.
That's also meaningless.
There are genre names so that people can identify certain styles, if you are too stupid to use wikipedia, you should be in a mental institute.

Only a disingenuous tool would defend DOOM-like, something that had already been weeded out decades ago because it was so stupid.

this is the real truth gamers will not acknowledge

Is Fallout a JRPG then? Because otherwise the games are very similar.

Also why is a Western made game "Japanese"?

crpg stands for computer rpg, not classic RPG.

I prefer to use the term WRPG for any "Wizardry-like"RPG for further confusion.

As a fan of both Metroid and Castlevania I agree that this term should be put to rest. Metroid and Castlevania are I their own things and most games that even use this portmanteau just use it for marketing purposes. As the games themselves don't feel anything like the games they're copying. And they shouldn't anyway.

I just call these 2d adventure games.

just call it MetroidVania for fuck's sake. We even gave the "Lovecraftian Horror" genre in various medias and nobody's delusional about that, just because it wouldn't bring enough moneys to kotaku

Totally user-friendly

REEEEE

how did you know that

I'm not upset, I'm just pointing out a stupid claim to start a discussion

t. someone who clearly doesn't even know what phylology is

what do you mean?

I agree with you

"woah that's a Darkemon-bloodkiro, I love that!"

>Stop Calling Kotaku 'Journalism'

This argument will forever be stupid because you'd never find a reasonable person that describes SMB as an RPG. It's a platformer.

"Doom clone" was weeded out because suits don't like their game being called a "clone". It was widely accepted in the early 00s/very late 90s because FPS had started moving away from the Doom style with the release of Half Life. It's the same reason "Diablo clone" stopped being used even though that's objectively a more accurate genre name than "ARPG" for most Diablo clones.

cosmic horror

Japanese people can make WRPGS
Western people can make JRPGS
Mass Effect is fundamentally a JRPG

If you are too stupid to know what a metroidvania is you are too stupid to know what a platformer is.

FUCK YOU

It can stand for either one, the "computer RPG" term was used more widely back in the day when said games weren't classics yet obviously, now it's usually used interchangeably with "classic" RPG.

>It was widely accepted in the early 00s/very late 90s
Bullshit. I know for a fact you won't be able to back this up with any kind of proof.

Its not a complex term, its pretty much 'Large area with back tracking when you get new powers'

we should call them

MOPE

multi opportunity path explorer

i just want these fuckheads to stop using roguelike wrong

Exactly

What would you call them? 2D exploration/RPG platformer?

It takes half a second to figure out what MetroidVania means and no better name has been used to describe them.

See thing is those first two things are wrong, and people only buy that crap because "journalists" pushed it because they were too lazy to remember more than 2 subgenres of RPG. So you get retarded shit like Souls being called a WRPG in spite of having less role playing than SMT or people calling Persona a WRPG because your choices can affect the story.

Show someone SMB and there's a decent chance they'd describe it as a platformer.
Show someone Hollow Knight and there's zero chance someone would call it a Metroidvania.

how about you fucking COPE

I commonly read/hear Lovecraftian horror, or even Lovecraftesque

why not just fucking google what the word means?

Because "journalists" feel emasculated when they're forced to google something.

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I believe the gays call that gatekeeping or something.

2D Adventure. Which is the designation they get on the stores they are sold on.

Metroidvania and such is just reddit tier fan wank.

"Google it" is not a defense.

He makes an argument that "Metroidvania" is absolute nondescriptor to somebody who is not a gamer, or already familiar with the genre. Which is something that I do kind of agree with.
But if you're gonna turn that into an issue, there's so many other genre names that are just as confusing, like 4X, Roguelite or Tower Defense. Frankly, it's a silly thing to get upset over.

That's too hard for low IQ brainlets

Do I have to use google?
I prefer to use search engines that respect my freedoms

If you don't know what Metroid or Castlevania are you will have literally zero interest in any Metroidvania game anyway, so it's not relevant.

Metroidvania is a much more precise term than 2D adventure or any of the "replacements" proposed. That's why it's used.

>AHHHH WE NEED MORE CLICKS!!!!!!!!!11

It's easy
Do you understand what a metroidvania game is? Then the fucking name works, no need to change, that's how fucking language works.

4X and Tower Defense are fine since they are descriptive.

But why? What's the distinction and where in the name does it imply that? Does that mean to understand what the genre is you need to know it's entire history because the name really means nothing? That's fucking retarded. Darmak and Jalad at Tanagra level of retarded.

Action FPS = Action First Person Shooter and that's literally all you need to know to know how the game plays.

that's like saying we shouldn't make the distinction between death metal, black metal, and progressive metal since they're all just metal
that's pretty retarded user

i agree with this only because games like hollow knight that don't have RPG mechanics should be called metroidlike's instead

Semi-linear exploration game is a good enough description.

why not? if I'm absolutely retarded and I don't know what "RPG" means I'll just google it. why complain about my own ignorance? what the fuck?

>And it's inaccurate anyway.
I know, right? It's mostly a zelda 2 ripoff

"adventure", when 2d, means "point and click"
doesn't matter that the genre is dead, you can't take the name or you'll confuse people
just like there's no point in renaming metroidvania when everyone knows what it is now

How is 4X or Tower Defense not perfectly accurate descriptors?

Should we call Halo DoomQuake?

castlevania 2 didn't have rpg mechanics

I mean these fags called Ori metroidvania.

>Tower Defense
First time i heard that name i though you had to defend towers but actually the towers are the defense mechanism.

>Stop Calling Games Journalism "Useful"

>need
>must
>stop
Yeah, these imperatives are stupid.

Just had a thought, what about Progression Hunt as an alternative name for the genre? He does have a point that it's not self-explanatory like most other genres.

No because "First Person Shooter" is a more useful term due to being more broad. Doom and Halo are both games in which you're shooting things from first person but they barely resemble each other in how the game actually plays beyond that. However for Metroidvania there is no other name you could use for the genre that is more succinct and still just as descriptive.

Yeah a better word for them is "shit"

Just like kotaku and op for not only reading kotaku but advertising them here

"Adventure" really means collecting items and solving puzzles. "Point and click" is just a control method which in the past suited games that were more about collecting items and solving puzzles than fighting enemies.

>4X
>descriptive
Get fucking real. And no, 90% of time people who use that as genre name don't say "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate" but simply "4X" which is absolute nonsense to somebody who is not familiar with the abbreviation to begin with.

wtf I like the term 'Metroidvania' now?!
Fuck Kotaku trannies. The term is stupid but Kotaku is gay and fucking stupid so I'll use it more now.

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Hes right you know

>HK doesn't have rpg mechanics

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I've never heard of the term "4X" and I had absolutely no idea that it meant "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate". So this fits exactly into what that dumbass journalist was complaining about.

This is all so fucking pointless, the word and what most associate with it is so firmly ingrained that another shitty take by kotaku is not going to change anyone's mind in its usage.
People have been complaining for years about the liberal usage of roguelike by various indie games, trying to come up with stuff like roguelite and roguelike-like yet most people who use it "incorrectly" don't give a shit where the term even came from.

The reasons for why he thinks it is wrong, though.

Combat platformers? They're platformers at the end of the day, albeit with a few extra bells and whistles

>never play video games
>hear about RPGs but don't know what the term means
>look it up on google, understand it
but
>never play video games
>hear about metroidvanias but don't know what the term means
>what the fuck this term does nothing but gatekeep, how am i supposed to know what it is?

That's why they're called metroidvanias retard.
It doesn't even make sense to call non Castlevania games "metroidvanias". If the games are defined by exploring and unlocking new abilities that open up new paths you can just call them Metroid-likes because that's where they borrow it from. Metroidvanias are Castlevania games with that Metroid style of exploration.

call them castlemanias

But Duck Hunt and Top Gun for the NES were also first person shooters.

Fuck off punchy.

Try the gemcraft series. They're probably the best in the genre.

You're right, we should call them 2d Soulsbornes

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Natural Igarashi Game Guaranteeing Exploration and Rewards

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case in point:

MetroidSouls for Hollow Knight

No, adventure means ADVENT-like

lmao

You mean Salt & Sanctuary?

>90% of time people who use that as genre name don't say "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate" but simply "4X"
Yes that's how abbreviations work you stupid faggot. No, you don't get a cookie.

What the dumbass journalist is complaining about is retarded. It doesn't matter that people new to gaming don't understand a term.

>used to report on the innovative mechanics developers were putting into their games
>now just posting lengthy responses to twitter posts
Stop Calling Gaming Articles 'Journalism'

Worst genre next to rts

>It doesn't matter that people new to gaming don't understand a term.
Its perfectly fine that people don't know all the jargon, but don't claim that 4X is descriptive in any way.

Look at this triggered sperg sperging. Bet youre a gamergator as well...

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Nah, that title goes to JRPGs or walking sims. Not like there's much difference.

>We need to stop using Metroidvania because normies don't understand it
LOOOL!!! Thats why? and not because it's a stupid word? Even still, what are you going to replace it with? BTW I fucking H A T E metroidvania shit, Fucking make actual levels, not a stupid ass big ass map to back track in, no one gives a shit about your fucking world building you gigantic faggot designer, holy shit. RNG rouge like shit can fuck off too!

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The stupidest things you come up with for a paycheck...

This has to be the dumbest post i've read this year.

>Combat platformers? They're platformers at the end of the day
You don't know what a platformer is, do you?

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I'm sorry you hate gameplay user.

"Point and click" means "point and click." You can have a 2D adventure game without being a point and click.

I'd be fine with less usage of the term, but not for the dumbass reasons this person is spewing. Using words that other people don't know isn't "gatekeeping", either. How in the hell does anyone even arrive at that conclusion?

>why do you have to redefine shit? it's a name, it's been used for nearly two decades now, who gives a shit what the source of the noun was
colored vs people of color
the second was a necessary change

How are jrpgs anywhere similar to walking sims? It's fine that you don't like them but don't say dumb shit like that.

Both of those have far more substance than running back and forth through 8 rooms 20,000 times because were too lazy/cheap to make new content but we'll convince our brain dead fans its a new genre, that backtracking through the same shit over and over is a feature

It really doesn't, dipshit. Your power comes from the charms, money, and items you find. You don't level up and enemies don't drop anything but money.

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Was it really, retard? It's the same fucking thing, it just arbitrarily has a different connotation.

Is quake a point and click?

>retards vs people of retardation
I'll never understand how "people of color" is supposedly any less offensive. And before you make any assumptions, I ain't white.

Very little and unexciting gameplay in favor of telling some shitty story.

>kotaku
>paycheck
The pay is so low that I wouldn't be surprised if their boss just hands them out a bill off their wallet every week.

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>TL;DR: muh gatekeeping, muh diversity in gaming. We need to stop using Metroidvania because normies don't understand it
I've advocated against using Metroidvania in the past but I guess now that's the Official I Suck Cocks stance.
Lame. Adventure Platformer is still a better genre title though, even if it's way less catchy.

Igavania being based on the Metroid formula with a level up system on top.
Realistically it should be called Metroid-like.

I get the feeling you don't actually know much about JRPGs.

I agree with the headline, but holy shit is the article itself full of horrible reasoning.

>I ain't white.
that means you are likely white, more so in fact, because you said that

saying colored people was a grotesque thing to say for obvious reasons and people of color is a more positive expression

I think you should play some video games before talking about video games user.

Which explains desperation

Does that mean you've never heard of ASSFAGGOTS?

kotaku are fags, but I don't like metroidvania. They should be called action exploration, a subgenre of action adventure

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No. There is no mouse pointer. Your mouse is controlling a first person camera. And when you click you're firing bullets, not interacting with game objects. In the sense of a point and click adventure, there is no point and clicking in Quake.

Reading comprehension user, the term dying was accepted during that time period because the Doom influence was less obvious and direct than it once was.

>saying colored people was a grotesque thing to say for obvious reasons
>my opinion is fact because its obviously true

Between 1993 and 2000 new FPS would often be called Doom clones.

I think it's a waste of time and stupid argument, however I'll agree to it only if journo will say we need to destroy "soulslike" along with it. You know he wouldn't because then he'll realize how dumb futile his argument is.

The term "Metroidvania" used to used to explicitly refer to the Metroid-like Castlevania games and the Metroid-like Castlevania games alone. It wasn't some genre or anything, but a term to distinguish between the classic Castlevania games and the Castlevania games that were more like Metroid.

>that means you are likely white, more so in fact, because you said that
I'm really not, but I'm kinda getting the feeling you're whiter than chalkboard on printer paper. It's fine if you don't believe me (fuck you anyway, though), but I was just stating that I've always hated both terms and am someone that those terms would be used to describe.

Only retards did that and were always mocked for it.

>saying colored people was a grotesque thing to say
Funny, i'm pretty sure i've seen sjws using "colored people" on twitter.

>Kotaku
>thinking that soulslike, the Souls series, and anything that isn't an all-inclusive non-violent hugbox are things that don't need to be wipe from existence
You're underestimating the faggotry on display, user.

>I'm kinda getting the feeling you're whiter than chalkboard on printer paper
i have pink nipples but my aunt is almost full black, regardless, you are trying to pretend to be not white to win some argument when there is no argument that calling people of color, "c*l*red people" is obviously wrong and it's telling how bad your history understanding is

How the fuck don't you get that calling someone a colored person instead of a person of color is wrong?

>Article to avoid giving them money
Based OP

I legitimately don't see how person of color is any less demeaning than colored. I get that it doesn't have the historical baggage that colored has, but that's literally it.

First of all, fuck you.
Second of all, I never said "colored people" wasn't wrong. I said I hate both terms.
Third of all, fuck you. I know I obviously can't fucking prove I'm not white without losing anonymity, but fuck you, anyway.

What is Castlevania II: Simon's Quest then?

The problem with the argument is that it falls apart the moment you realize that the internet (Especially sites like UrbanDictionary) exists. Maybe if this were the 1800s and if you encountered a new word that no one in your village knew you were shit out of luck, but there's no excuse to be ignorant about basic terminology these days. Plus, the logical extension of this argument would essentially mean that series titles shouldn't exist. I mean, to a non-gamer, what does something like Super Mario Bros mean? Who are the Mario Brothers? What makes them so super? It would mean that you'd have to start referring to games as a series of elongated descriptors as opposed to a short, punchy title. So Super Mario Bros would have to instead be called, "2 Dimensional Platforming Video Game Where-in a Man named Mario and his Brother Luigi Complete a Series of Skill, Timing, and Precision Based Challenges in a Linear Sequence of Numbered Challenges Grouped Together by Thematic and Mechanical Similarity, Set to a Suspenseful Story about a Princess that has been Kidnapped by a Fire Breathing Turtle and his Animal/Vegetable Minions."

Frankly I'll stick to Super Mario Brothers and Metroidvania for brevity's sake.

Learn to read. I said I hate BOTH. I think BOTH are wrong.

>Aesthetically, it’s miserable and inefficient, five syllables in the mouth
First person shooter
Third person shooter
Multiplayer online battle arena (or ASSFAGGOT if you're not a LoLbabby)
Real-time strategy
Massive multiplayer online roleplaying game
You get my point. If you don't want to say the entire thing then make an abbreviation that isn't fucking garbage.
Also metroidvania is easy as fuck to say what kind of mush-mouthed retard is this guy?

>because normies don't understand it

Normies don't understand the word RPG
Normies don't understand the word platformer
Normies don't understand the word shmup
Normies don't understand the word FPS

Normies don't understand these words because they're not into the hobby, if they were they would get to understand the words.

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>hates people of color
>"i'm not white"
you're so fucking obviously white, it makes me laugh out loud

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Because it tells them you accept that they're a 'person'.
I wish I could say that is a complete joke, but historically that has been an issue.

Wait, why is this a problem for video games but not literally anything else? You'd have to be an uneducated nigger to not know baroque, but still, unless you aren't taught what the fuck is that, the name is not descriptive and won't clue you in on what the fuck are you supposed to see. Why should knowing things beforehand be a sign of sophistication in art, but a "problem" in games?

Doom clones usage versus first person shooter on usenet, as you can see for a brief moment, shorter than I thought it was more used.

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FPS
TPS
MOBA
RTS
MMO
wow it's almost like you're being retarded on purpose!

I'm actually getting more pissed off about you thinking I'm white than I am about my original point, so it's probably better I just step off of this argument.

>>Aesthetically, it’s miserable and inefficient, five syllables in the mouth
he could have easily restated this profound twenty-two syllable statement into a three syllable one, i.e. "i'm retarded"

Wow, it's like the concept of learning new words and expanding their vocabulary is completely alien to them. I hope these folks don't actually write for a living!

>If you don't want to say the entire thing then make an abbreviation that isn't fucking garbage.
>LOOK AT THE ABBREVIATIONS OF THE GENRES YOU LISTED RETARD
Wow thanks it's almost like that's the fucking point of the post you inbred cock-gobbling shitpile.

>it's the same thing, but not
explain how it's even close to the same thing

"Doom clone" was a very accurate term for a few years. There were a ton of games that were little more than reskins of Doom or Wolfenstein 3D. It made sense for the term to fall out of fashion once new game engines started gaining prominence.

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>stop doing 'thing'
Make me

Ironically, I think Doom-clones are most applicable today. FPS games went into a cinematic direction and all have health regeneration, weapon capacity limit, "story" and other gay shit. While Doom-clone would be applicable to a game that doesn't have any of those and concentrates on fast-paced action where you are one against army of enemies. Like Serious Sam or Will Rock, there's no point to compare them modern FPSs. And when you try to mix the two you get Duke Nukem Forever.

i don't read anything from you because it's all worthless drivel

You’ve explained nothing, quit gatekeeping.

>i hate colored people and people of color
This board needs to be fucking nuked.

>the words are in a different order
Wow, you sure showed him. Totally different now.

>admitting that you're a retard
Then why bother replying?

This might just be the most retarded thing in this thread.

i miss the times when Yea Forums, and sometimes even Yea Forums, called out obvious bait

it's far too easy

Pretty sure he means he hates the terms, not who they describe.

but I also hate the ``people'' it describes

Damn, I kinda want some Spaghetti-O's now, but I don't want to be seen as a brainlet. Such a conundrum.

Not that user, but I think both "people of color" and "colored people" are stupid. They are both putting color in people and create implication that they are different from people, whereas true equality is achieved through unity, not segregation. They are people, not people of color, they are just people, how will we ever start thinking of people of color as just people if it's appropriate to bring up color of their skin all the time? That's backwards.

Why?

I wish garbage heaps like Shitaku would just disappear. Worthless people churning out garbage every day just to get rage clicks.

>tfw no contrived social outrage movement to call out every celeb/politician/etc. who has uttered "people of color" when the phrase has, linguistically, the same exact meaning as "colored people" so that they can all be all branded persona non grata in mass

You need to stop using it because it's a misnomer, especially when you apply it to Metroid. The only "Metroidvanias" are the Castlevania games that ape Metroid. Any other game of a similar style is a just a Metroid clone.

The name made a lot more sense back when super metroid and SotN were the only good games in the genre

I get your intention, but how are you supposed to discuss an issue that affects a group of people if you have no way of identifying that specific group?

>saying colored people was a grotesque thing to say for obvious reasons
What reasons? I'm curious, I'm ESL and colored people sounds even less offensive to me, I still prefer the term nigger tho

Literally everyone is a person of color. White is a color.

i was going to give you a serious answer until you said that word, but instead, i'll let you know it was bonafide bait in the hope you'd reply

> Normies don't understand the word shmup
This reminds me when I was talking with my normalfag friend, he obviously didn't knew what a shmup was, and called beat'em ups "street fight".

Did you click the wrong post? Because that doesn't remotely address the question I asked.

the point is to change the word every so often so that their past deeds have a slight decaying effect in the vast majority of the masses minds before slowly bubbling back up and then repeated

>nigger
>colored
>nonwhite
>minorities
>people of color

So you don't even know why, you've been just told that and now you're realizing how much a dumbfuck you were for falling for basic manipulation tactics.

I prefer to call them Character Platformer Games

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>my crayoloa box says so

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lol I love the liberal authoritarian language control.

As is the case any time Kotaku is correct, they're right, but for the wrong reasons.

Metroidvania is a shit term because 99% of the games in the genre take influence solely from Metroid. Might as well call them Metroid clones or Metroid-likes. Metroidvania originally gained traction as a way to differentiate the old style of Castlevania from the new. It was perfectly suited to that role, but using it to describe the entire genre is retarded.

I suggest anyone that has an issue with this to go DILATE

>he's ESL and therefore has trouble comprehending the meaning of sentences with all their possible intricacies, even if obvious
it was BAIT

Platformer is a term people wouldn't understand
What about "obstacle course"?

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"Metroid clone". This isn't complicated.

>course of obstacles
completely understandable

>read title
Finally an opinion I can get behind, I fucking hate every 2D where the fuck am I going game getting labeled "metroidvania" like it's gonna be good.
>read the actual article
oh. how do you fuck this up every time, kotaku?

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Rolls right off the tongue.

>RPG
What the fuck does this term even mean anymore? The term is hopeless without dividing it into a million subgenres which don't mean jackshit either because they all overlap.

>Role Playing Game
You role play in almost every game ever.
>Leveling up mechanics
This has also seeped its way into practically every genre, it's not exclusive to RPGs anymore.
>Story heavy
Same as above.
RPGs are just either, action or adventure games.

Just so you know these threads are unironically made by Kotaku. That's how they stay relevant. Thank you for keeping them relevant instead of hiding this thread.

>game isn't like metroid at all
>gets called metroidvania
>game isn't like castlevania at all
>gets called metroidvania
Why do people do this?

>It's on the same level as DOOM-clone and Soulslike
This, except that's a good thing.
Doom-clone etc. is still used nowadays ya fuck. It's used to describe that genre of FPS which emulates...doom.

>What the fuck does this term even mean anymore?

It's about injecting your avatar into the journey of a game and absurd as it sounds at bare minimal this only requires you to name a prescripted character.

Based nigger. I'm calling them this from now on.

oh no! kotaku's writers will keep making literal pennies for the next few decades! we've been outsmarted!

normies don't even play metroidvanias

Good time to cut those cancerous indie games that dare to call themselves Metroid.

To trick you

Your sophistry has no power here, poor fool. The vast majority of people can identify RPG as a genre and the games which lie within it, which suggests there is something unique to the genre. I posit this is a tight focus on the narrative experienced by one or more characters as they go through an adventure.

RPGs have a focus on character and party building as their main mechanics
A game can have RPG elements (see: symphony of the night) without being an RPG because the character/party building is not the focus but just a small extra
Just like a platformer has a focus on jumping on platforms to avoid obstacles, and a game (see: symphony of the night) can have platformer elements without being considered a platformer

The term RPG denotes a game where a character's stats, gears, skills, etc. take precedence in gameplay over the player's raw reflexes. Of course, there are action rpgs which blend the two.

I agree it's not the best name but it's been here for years and people have a good idea what it means when you say it. It seems pointless to try and change it now.

the longer I think about this the more stupid it seems
>arena shooter
>roguelike
>platformer
>action rpg
all mean nothing to people who haven't played one, and at the same time I'd say most people that played Diablo 3 wouldn't know it's genre if you asked them
normies just say "oh it's like grand theft auto but with cum in my mouth" anyways

I fucking hate "rougelite" so much.
>hey "roguelike" requires familiarity with Rogue, which these games often aren't "like" anymore. What should we do?
>why don't we call them "roguelites," a term which is just a chinese telephone of "roguelike," thus not actually solving the problem, while being a single letter away from the original term to make it extra confusing?

There is nothing wrong with this because it lets you appreciate the history of a genre and video games in general. And if you don't like that, you don't like games, get a new hobby.

>Metroid came out and was super successful
>SotN came out and was super successful

It's not really a hard concept and we live in an age where you don't have to rely on an article, or the back of a box to decide to buy a game.

You can literally watch a review or actual uncut gameplay in an instant. Tags like Metroidvania, ARPG, JRPG, are just helping you identify things you like or dislike. There is nothing wrong with that.

The term is dumb IMO, they called SOTN "Metroidvania" because it was a Castlevania game with the same style as Metroid
Metroid-like would be more apt for other games.

This
It'd be like calling all momentum based 2d platformers MariSonics
Shit sounds fucking stupid

>Exploration-centric two dimensional platform hopping game with combat, wherein the gameplay loop is to collect more powerful items and additional traversal abilities to backtrack with or solve minor puzzles to make progress.

Why, I love a good EC2DPHGw/cwtglitcmpi&ATAtBwosmptmP, don't you Yea Forums?
Oh shit I think I posted the complete LGBT etc lineup, my bad.
>"First person shooter means you shoot in first person!"
>"What the fuck does Metroidvania mean?! That you metro-android in Castle Transylvania? SHM gamers!"
It's coming from two paragons of a divergent strain of exploration and backtracking-centric 2D platformers, the most well known cases of what the games are like, which will equate them for people that are aware of what those games are. For the people that are unaware, if they ask a friend or search it online, you'll fucking know right away. Metroidvania isn't a secret gamer exclusive codeword or even something that a drooling retard couldn't pronounce.
All in all more pointless shit from queertaco.

>The term RPG denotes a game where a character's stats, gears, skills, etc. take precedence in gameplay over the player's raw reflexes
lolno

Chex Quest was absolute kino

>How do we promote out breakfast cereal?
>Oh yeah, let's reskin one of today's most controversially violent games

This is the actual answer. It was originally just a term to separate different type of castlevania games.

Castroids

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>normal people won't understand it!
>explain it to them? why the fuck would you do that when you can redefine the term itself
imagine being that much of an autistic retard that you wouldn't be able to explain a metroidvania to someone

I prefer the term "Two-Dimensional Action Adventure Puzzle platforming item unlock progression based brawler/hack n slash/shooter"

Only reason why I'm bumping this thread is because OP is smart enough to not give Kotaku clicks. I just wish everyone does so and report anyone direct linking to other sites.

I like this, but it doesn't get the upgrading to unlock previous areas part across. Same reason why trying to normalize "Roguelike" and Roguelite" really is impossible.

Hollow Knight clones.

tbf it seems like nobody can explain it in this thread

Please have high quality version.

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it's all so tiresome

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Why do they do this why do they have to make issues out of nothing all of the time

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>5 syllables too hard for me mouth!
Anglos are the worst

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20 bucks on this being written because they shit on Bloodstained and everyone laughed at them.

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Buy rayman origins and legends are literally marisonics

>game isn't like rogue at all
>gets called a roguelike

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Shit

>Kotaku's being gay
fuck off discord tranny, don't touch kotaku

>its a faggot that never played video games, that will never play video games makes an article demanding something to be done about video games
Hey Jason, you only have 6 months left to make a profit before your kike overlords shut you down, better hurry up if you dont want to die alone on the shit filled streets in California.

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Metroidlikes.

The first Castlevanias werent like that. As the series went on they started copying Metroid.

Adventure sidescroller

His opinions are onions incarnate, but really, genres shouldn't be named after specific titles, especially since Metroid and Castlevania games aren't all in that genre. The term roguelike shouldn't exist either since it's been mutated to include any game with procedurally generated areas.

Imagine being so desperate to bring attention to your irrelevant series that you pretend every game in the style of SOTN is "a metroid rip off"
They probably didn't even know metroid existed when making symphony

I think at one point we should stop coming up with new terms since all the old ones become offensive and simply start recycling terms. From now on, "blackie" is politically correct again

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By that logic we should stop calling black people criminals. Big yikes.

Racists aren’t welcome here, kid.

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INCEL ALERT
INCEL ALERT
ALERT ALERT
INCEL SPOTTED

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It's genre is metroidvania
Also what you said can be said about any mario game as well. Certain people won't call it a platformer, they'll just call it a Mario game.

user, while I understand the sentiment, remember that 50% is not 100% even if comes from 13%

Honestly this is just retarded. Why do we need to change terminologies this late into the game?

Just keep calling it metroidvania. If people don't know what that is then they can google it. I certainly hate the term as well but at this point just deal with it.

Backtracking platformers

fpbp. It just sounds stupid. There's nothing wrong with naming a genre after it's most famous or original game, as in the case of Roguelike, but sometimes it sounds retarded like when people used to call ARPGs Diablo Clones. It's inelegant.

Based Aku poster.

>Doesn’t want people to use words ignorant don’t understand.
>Uses lexicon and portmanteau in the first 2 sentences.

I wish these morons would pull their heads out of their asses.

Explorey fighty level-and-mighty

Nah I mean fuck niggers

Based and 13% of the population pilled

Damn what’s her name? She have a patreon?

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Only if we stop calling games "The Dark Souls of X".

If I had that hairline and his lanky faggot frame would genuinely kill myself.

>(((Screihererersrer)))
>White
Lol

boomers attempting to SEO lmao

>character-action games
as opposed to what
non-character action games?

The writer already admitted to not liking the genre when he reviewed Bloodstained. Just ignore it.

Oldfag here. Nobody referred to anything as a doom clone in the 90s because we all played and knew Wolfenstein was the precursor. The only people that refer to an FPS as a Doom Clone were the people that were to young to have played Wolfenstein 3D when it came out.

You're not serious. They didn't actually get to spite-review bloodstained or anything stupid like that, did they?

I literally avoid every game described as a metroidvania

no way am I going to fall for it again, not after that pile of shit hollow knight

>another shitastic Kotaku thread
They can just fuck right off. Write shitty reviews for video games and stop telling people how to live their lives and what to do all the damn time. You do not get to police the natural evolution of language. Particularly when it comes to slang, colloquialisms, and nicknames.

Metroidvania is probably one of the worst genre names, up there with rougelites.
Just cause someone on Kotaku had a faggy spin on it doesn't mean that isn't true.

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At least you learned you didn't like the genre, user.

Fuck you, roguelite is an excellent name. It's the one defence against the hordes of thirteen year olds calling Binding of Isaac a roguelike.

Jumpin shootin run around n lootin.

it’s a metroid clone, buddy. no amount of history revisionist shit can change that.

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they would be better off called Metroid games IMO. or if there's some precursor to Metroid that it was ripping off, of which I'm not aware, then they should be named for that.
unless I'm seriously misremembering, the term Metroidvania sprung up to distinguish between the OG castlevania style (classicvania per some) and the style of SotN (ie metroid-style). so for example, when Aria came out, I remember an older brother saying "ah, it's another one of those Metroid-vanias", that is, another one of those castlevania games that is like Metroid.

of course there were like ten of these Metroidvania games made in the same span of time in which Nintendo came out with like, one actual side scrolling Metroid game. so I can understand why the name got switched but it's still dumb

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I hate this term since most people forget about the "vania" part when they use it.

What a fag. A non gamer wouldn't give a fuck about games let alone metroidvanias. Sounds more like this guy just doesn't get it and wants to be the one who sets the new standard.

just post pic of hand bro
I've done it occasionally to prove im white

Stop calling San Francisco bloggers games journalists.

have sex

This is dumb, for years we've used terms for many things that to someone who is new looking in wouldn't fully understand why it's named that.

But even someone who doesn't understand where it came from could still be like "oh this type of game is a metroidvania" without understanding why it's called a metroidvania.

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Do movie goers get pissed when people say Scorsese-eqse?

backtracking simulators

Metroidvania isn't that bad as a descriptive term. JRPG and WRPG are the worst "genre" names.

They probably don't give a shit just like how people who don't know what Metroidvania completely means don't fucking give a shit.

The only people who give a shit are idiot journalists who want points for being inclusive as possible even when it really doesn't matter

Why does he care exactly? Did someone complain? Did someone feel left out?

>stop calling games metroidvania
>probably still compares games to dark souls

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Yo user have you heard of Bloodstained? On hard mode it's like the Dark Souls of Lords of Shadow: Mirrors of Fate.

>jrpg
>not actually an rpg

Indies developers probably don't like living in the shadows of series they shamelessly ape.

how about we call them video game

What the fuck is hobby-grade??

Is that orcastraw?

Stop calling 0451 games "immersive sims"

I'm going to say the M word

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I wish you fucking normalfag indiedevs would stop using "roguelike" to describe your game. It is the most simple genre ever, "a game that is like Rogue." If it's not like Rogue in the fucking slightest, it's not a roguelike.
>b-but it got permadeath dat mean it roguelike
Neck yourself

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Think about your stupid comment for a second. Indie devs who breathlessly yell about how their game is a spiritual sequel to X or inspired by their childhood playing Y are ashamed of it? Fucking idiot.

Gets weird when you consider roguelikes which aren't like rogue but which are definitely roguelikes. Like Cogmind or UnReal World or Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode or (probably) Ultima Ratio Regum.

metroidvania is a fucking stupid name
imagine calling fps games doomensteins

Shut the fuck up retard, the true question is, is Binding of Isaac a rougelike? Or rougelite?

Arena shooters are called doom clones you fucking imbecile

Isaaclike

Fucking sick, imma start using that

People called them Doomclones for about a century, zoomer.

>Jet Set Willy release date: 1984
>Metroid release date: 1986

The correct term is Willyvania. I like how it was stolen from us by Americans.

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>not turn-based
This alone makes it not a rougelike.

Play video games.

There's literally nothing wrong with Metroidvania but if you NEEDED to change it then it should be "Progression Platformer". You progress through a large map and progress your character's abilities.

You mean Willytroid

Is Crypt of the Necrodancer a roguelike?

>rpg from Japan
>everyone says it's not jrpg

Open world 2D

>permanent upgrades with no permadeath
No.

The dark souls of metroidvania.

Isn't the term metroidvania more of a summation of the general gameplay loop, and not the genre? The genre would be action adventure.

i don't really care about the term metroidvania
but i will endeavor to use it more often now
kotaku can lick my nuts

>she

>stop doing X
>why does everyone X
>we need to have a serious talk about X
>that's enough X
>why X should be changed
is anyone keeping score on all their successful trolls vs amount of shitposting they do because it seems extremely low.

Is Kotaku still cucks for Zoe Quinn?

Metroid is a platform-adventure game.
SotN is a platform-adventure game too (with RPG elements).

The map layouts and character progression and other minuscule, needlessly specific bullshit is already implied by the "-adventure" part and it shouldn't fucking matter. But if it does matter to you, then just say "metroidvania" and people will know what you mean. Having to use that term is your punishment for being a pedantic fucking ass.

Yeah. They promoted her book and comic both flopped by the way and the comic forced the store it was sold at to shut down due to no sales

>>rpg from Japan
Most of them aren't even RPGs

>why is it called death metal if no one is killed with a lead pipe midway through the performance?
>why is it called hard rock if it doesn't involve a rock who happens to be difficult to break?
>why is it called synthwave if it doesn't involve synthetics surfing on waves at beach?
>why is it called soul when it doesn't involve spirits?
>why is it called techno if it isn't a technician doing the performance?
>why is it called trap music when it doesn't involve cutie femboys in dress singing?

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Every single game going left to right would fall under category.

Fucking kek, source?

no

Non-linear Action Platformer

call it niggervania haha

>Non-linear
You've already lost their attention

lol didn't they come up with the term? Maybe not Kotaku specifically but gaming "journalists"?

Someone got paid to write this

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It's more like it's a completely meaningless descriptor because people are retarded. It became a meme word to signal "good". Much like roguelike, you heard it once or twice decades ago as a descriptor but now it's like "any game where you die".

I lost all interest in RE2make when they said it would be a Metroidvania and then it turns out it's not one at all and the game is pretty good.

>I lost all interest in RE2make when they said it would be a Metroidvania
You are a genuine clinically diagnosed retard

Games becoming more accessible =/= they become better.
Fuck Kotaku now are forever.
If every brain dead retard got in on something, and they lower the common denominator to appease them as a result, the medium as a whole suffers.
Kotaku is anti-gaming

What on earth was she attempting?

>Yea Forums has been saying to stop calling games 'metroidvanias' for years
>Kotaku says it
>suddenly we like the word 'metroidvania' now!

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How about "Restricted Action Platforming Exploration" games?

Suicide

God I hate when idiots do this.

>We should stop doing [thing]
>why
>because people who don't do [thing] *may* have a problem with thing
>then doesn't that mean [thing] just isn't a right fit for them?
>No, you're gate-keeping, if people can't get into [thing] then it's [thing]'s fault
>Okay, I disagree but I'm tolerable: what's your solution.
>lol I don't know just stop doing [thing]

It's so annoying because while their heart is usually in the right place (diversity and inclusion are objectively good things), They're so fucking stupid that they don't even understand why things are the way they are and essentially kick up dirt over something minute or meaningless that just makes their whole cause seem as stupid as they are.

A friend broke down in tears and stopped talking to me after I carefully explained that not all characters would refer to them with gender neutral pronouns because the concept didn't exist in that part of the world. guilting me over literal fantasy.

Without irony argue against gatekeeping fags cause I don't see any legit downsides to it.

>Japanese people can make WRPGS
True but they don't.
>Western people can make JRPGS
True but they don't.
>Mass Effect is fundamentally a JRPG
no it isn't

they are kinda like metroid
and kinda like castlevania

maybe we should combine both names

Castleroid?
nah that sounds stupid

i think it might have a better name out there but i cant think of it right now

it's always been the same cluster of anal-retentive faggots who object to the term. They're here in this thread and not even slightly embarassed to have the same opinions as shitaku.

"Tansaku", you fucks.
t. Iga

>diversity and inclusion are objectively good things
You need to go back.

Gatekeeping is vital for every community. If you don't gatekeep it will eventually be destroyed by outsiders.
Everyone, from Souls games fans to grandmas that knit should gatekeep.

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>We need to stop using Metroidvania because normies don't understand it
Why don't they just learn?

Doesn't he unironicaly call them Igavanias?

How are they not?
>More inclusions means more money
>more money means more product at an improved quality
>more diversity means more money
>More money means more product at an improved quality
>bigger community not only brings in more money but also fresh ideas, communication, and interactivity
When done correctly there's literally no down sides. So what's your deal? no wait let me guess some variant of they hurt your feelings and "different bad"?

>Improved quality
WRONG!

They go too far with it. Instead of making new characters they changed existing ones to be more progressive. They lean too far in the other direction for the sake of getting a new market.

ah there's the "different bad". Now where's the hurt feefees.

How the fuck is this even an article?

>retarded activists don't understand the concept of convenience
Color me surprised.

>Yea Forums for the past 5 years
YOU CANT JUST CALL THEM ALL METROIDVANIAS

>Yea Forums after reading a kotaku article saying you shouldn't call them all metroidvanias
HUH WHY NOT, YOU NOT A GAMER??!?

>"when done correctly"

Ill stop calling them metroidvanias when you can name an actively developed franchise in the genre that isnt metroid or castlevania

DarkSouls2D

Action platformers with stat leveling

How would a normie know what a platformer is?

>tfw only 46 ZORCH

>Yea Forums for the past 5 years
I'M ONE PERSON ALSO SILLY

>Yea Forums after reading a kotaku article saying you shouldn't call them all metroidvanias
I'M STILL ONE PERSON AND STILL SILLY LOL BAZINGA ZOOMER BOOMER DILATE

The problem is that nobody has come up with a better name. I think someone proposed "procedural death labyrinth" which could be shortened PDL but everyone hates it. Most people recognise it's dumb to have both of these genres going by the same name so we need to rename it to something but they just ended up changing one letter because it's easier than coming up with an actual new name

Hollow Knight clones

Super Mario Bros is my favorite, loved the platforming and exploring as a kid.

righty lefty jump n' fighty

wake me up when Silksong has a release date

gap in map slide n' strides

>progression platformer
nice

>Exploratory platformer
No fucking thanks

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KYS

How about you deal with it? You don't get to steer the evolution of language.

>white people call everyone else people of color when they're the ones that turn red, blue, yellow and many other colors depending on the situation

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Why not? Language is a social construct made by humans, of course humans get to steer it. You act like language is a part of science and is just a part of the universe that we're supposed to observe and study

That sounds gay as fuck, like some medical procedure for your rectum, fag.

Immersive sim

Reminder that FPS were called Doomclones by everyone for a solid decade

She plays football, and the guy brushed against her. Her reflexes just kicked in.

>half life
If I had three wishes all three of them would be to kill every pcbro

Dark souls is literally Japanese people doing their own spin on a wrong. Fuck, even modern Final Fantasy is like that. JRPGS are explicitly turn based

Shouldn't we just call them Castlevania games since Metroid is a dead franchise?

To be honest, if you can't make it past the gatekeeper then you don't deserve to get in.

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2D Soulslikes

They should be called Search Action. Metroidvania is the name for Castlevania games that play like SotN but people started misusing the term.

>no these RPG mechanics don't count

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most games that are labeled Metroidvania are far closer to Metroid than SOTN

Never turned blue in my life.

and Castlevania isn't?

CALL IT ACTION ADVENTURE!
IT ALREADY EXISTS

Get with the times, grandpa. What used to be called "RPG mechanics" is now called "economy", in reference to casual free-to-play mobile games that use progression as a tool to squeeze money out of the user.

Words are just symbolic links to ideas, so it really doesn't matter what you call them. You'd just end up poisoning the word people.

I like the term for the exact reasons that the author of that article bitches about it. If you want to pretend you're a participant in the video games medium but you haven't even heard of Metroid or Castlevania(let alone played one of them) and you don't want to play or at least learn what they are then I don't really want you part of the medium either.

skelly adventures in the night

Dead Cells is a Rogue-like MetroidVania

Pitfall clones

Explore ‘em ups

I love how they completely forget to mention that the term was coined by journalists in the first place.

In the age where information is at the palm of your hand why are people still afraid of having to learn something new?

>Rogue-like MetroidVania
This doesn't even makes sense. Metroidvanias are supposed to have a static with unlockable areas, meanwhile roguelikes are supposed to have random maps.

I like this one.

>Progression Platformer
Yeah I can agree with this. I dislike everyone here who just calls it an "action platformer" or "adventure platformer". They forget that progression/upgrading is the important aspect of metroid. Like what does adding "action" to anything mean anyway? Guns?

pretty far into the thread so i doubt anyone will care to read this, but what the fuck is wrong with our society nowadays? why does everything need to cater to people who have the least association with an already established franchise, group, game, whatever? when you are joining a new community or want to get into a new type of game or series; the onus is on you to do research into how it ticks. when i first started watching rts streams there were tons of terms that i had no idea what they meant, but they obviously were very efficient and there for a reason; so i did what any normal person would do: i fucking googled them. there are a million different wikis for pretty much anything nowadays, even niche h-game rpgs. this article epitomizes what the fuck is wrong with inclusionary bullshit, catering to people who dont know anything and have been part of a community for a short if not non-existent amount of time rather than the people who built it from the ground up.

also, this faggot's vocabulary is so goddamn condesending for what he's trying to get across; nigga just using esoteric words that are never ever used typically just to make him look intelligent. what a fucking douchebag

a stupid term for a stupid genre
am I right or am I right

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Metroid-like. We literally named a genre Rogue-like, so don't give me any of that "it doesn't roll off the tongue" bullshit.

Use the successors names just to piss them off. HollowStained-like.

>Video games need to be easier to parse, not harder. We talk a lot about diversity and inclusion in games—how we games could become a better, more welcoming space if we just figured out a way to represent more perspectives both in the games we play and in the studios that make them. These are necessary, urgent steps. But I also wonder how many people have never bothered because we’ve spent all this time using the wrong words.

Jesus Christ what is wrong with these fuckkng people

The floor is yours, user. What should we call it that would most easily describe a subgenre as fast as possible?

Stop not calling them character action games

>uuuhhh it'll confuse people if we rename it
SOTNfags are easy to spot.

>pandering to people who don't play video games
Yeah fuck that. It's not even a difficult term. Hell, Nintendo just had a promotion last week called "Metroidvania" with the origins of the term and everything.

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Have sex

>game calls itself Metroidvanis
>has no combat
>game calls itself roguelike
>has no random maps
every fucking time.

is spyro the dragon an exploratory platformer?

We should call them Exploration Platformers like Japan does.

The suits think that if you can reach more people you will get more money, while this is the case in movies and toys in videogames a small whale fanbase can get you more money.

Igavania is nothing like Metroid. They share only very superficial similarities like a similar map. Gameplay-wise they couldn't be more different.

Do you have any proposal for a replacement? We need something to describe the genre, and while “metroidvania” might not be an accessible word, it’s at least a functional one. “Exploration adventure” maybe? That’s unfortunately close to the so-generic-it’s-useless “action-adventure” genre, but it’s the best I can come up with.

I can see parallels to “Doom clone” being replaced by “first-person shooter”. But that only worked because “first-person shooter” became a better descriptor than “Doom clone”, as the genre evolved (and as Quake displaced Doom from id’s own output).

And while we’re talking about snobbish terminology... “roguelite”. “Roguelike” is already bad enough, since it just denotes “like this game from several decades ago”, but the kind of elitism that makes people go “that’s not a real roguelike because ____” is just pointless. I’m all in favor of ditching both terms just to get rid of it.

Nowadays Metroidvania just means exploration platformer and roguelike just means permadeath, so they should just be called that instead.

>Do you have any proposal for a replacement?
Exploration Platformer. This is what Japan has been calling Metroid games since the fucking 80's.

There's no need for replacement. Everybody who is invested already knows what it means and if someone really has no clue then they weren't interested in the first place and they weren't going to be won over because you revised language on their behalf.

>develop rogue legacy inspired by roguelikes
>never calls it a roguelike because you know it is not a roguelike
>journalists calls it a roguelike anyway
>ok, let's it's a "roguelite" then if you insist on calling it something like this
>journalists disregards this and continues to call it a roguelike
>indieshits from all over the western world start to call their shit roguelike too
What the fuck is wrong with people?

yes but its been proven time and time again that catering to potential new customers at the cost of alienating your loyal customers is not a smart business move

Roguelike implies random generated dungeons, perma death and turn based combat. Roguelite its just perma death.

>Dark souls is literally Japanese people doing their own spin on a [WRPG]
It's literally not. Dark Souls is barely even an RPG, much less one influenced in any reasonable way by WRPGs.
Medieval aesthetic != WRPG.
Open-ended character creation is just a symptom of WRPG design philosophy, and the Dark Souls implementation of it is not very WRPG-like at all.

Dark Souls has no actual towns or villages. Lordran is a gameplay park with a surreal undead aesthetic, it's not a real world with functional towns and politics and governments and such that would characterize any WRPGs that isn't a dungeon crawl. Souls NPCs are placed the park to give you hints and help you out (or hinder you). They function much more like NPCs in the NES or SNES Zelda games than any RPG NPC.

Again the first problem with thinking that Dark Souls is a Japanese take on WRPG is even thinking that Dark Souls is a take on RPGs in the first place, when it's painfully obvious that it's far more influenced by action games and 3rd-person action-adventure than RPGs.

>Exploration Platformer
That is WAY too long. We need a snappy catch-all nickname.

I mean, this is why I don't say it...
But "Sidescrolling large world item-based-progression" is kind of a mouthful.

Who gives a fuck about normies?

Explat

Dark Souls is an Action-RPG, though.

>Roguelike implies random generated dungeons, perma death and turn based combat
Wrong, plenty of roguelikes have permadeath as an option.
Roguelite implies permadeath, procedural generation and non-sandbox gameplay (you typically have a bunch of levels you go through so you can beat the game).
Roguelike implies turn based, grid based, non-modal gameplay where you control a single character, usually with a focus on resource management with items such as potions and scrolls. Roguelikes are often RPGs with some simulation type stuff as well, but not always. You can have a sandbox roguelike that doesn't enforce permadeath, such as Elona.

Exploration Platformer is accurate but I don't think it's good enough to get me to stop saying Metroidvania, especially now that I know it pisses off zoyboys like Josh Rivera

>anglos
>being bad at long names

Let's see anyone else handle Llanfairpwllgwyngyll

If it doesn't has permadeath it doesn't deserve to be called a rogue-anything.

>Dark Souls is an Action-RPG, though.
A meaningless categorization. Maybe technically accurate if you want to nitpick but it's so far away from actually playing anything like a real RPG that the term is more misleading than not.

>MariSonic
>Not somari
Unbased

I consider Roguelikes to be randomly generated permadeath games with no persistence while Roguelites are randomly generated permadeath games that have some persistent progression element.

That name implies a series was a platformer but now it isn't anymore.

But it plays pretty much like an over-the-shoulder Diablo game, and Diablo basically defined the Action-RPG genre.

First Person Shooter is even longer and people use it. Just call it Upgrade Based Exploration Platformer (UBEP).

For me it's Igavania

And why is that? Because you arbitrarily decided so? Do you even play roguelikes? You sound like someone who doesn't play roguelikes but plays roguelites, because they are usually the people who obsess over permadeath as if it's the most important part of the genre. Most of the roguelike community considers permadeath to be a tradition but not a requirement

Because Rogue is the game that the genre is termed after and one of its defining features is permadeath, you underage sperg.

I think we should stop calling clickbait writers "professional videogame journalists" when they relentlessly oust themselves for what they are. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

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Y'see, First Person Shooter gets a pass because it's only five syllables and flows quickly as a term.
Exploration Platformer has seven syllables and by the time you've finished saying that for the fifth time in a row the zoomers have pulled out their phones

Correct

Its like saying that Third Person Shooters are FPS because both have shooting.

Rogue has plenty of defining features, why is permadeath so special? You're just arbitrarily saying that's extra important because you feel like it. Also roguelikes aren't defined by rogue anymore, they're defined by roguelikes. The canon for modern roguelikes is games like Nethack and Angband, not Rogue. That's just how genres work, they evolve over time. Just because it's called "roguelike" doesn't mean it has to be based only on Rogue, just like how metroidvanias don't have to be based on Metroid or Castlevania.

>Also roguelikes aren't defined by rogue anymore, they're defined by roguelikes
then call them roguelikelikes.

>Just because it's called "roguelike" doesn't mean it has to be based only on Rogue
The absolute state of this retards.

How so? "First person shooter" is obviously defined by first person, that's literally the whole point of the term. You could just use "shooter" but if you want to specificy first person you say "first person". "Roguelike" is not used to indicate permadeath except by people calling games like Spelunky "roguelikes". This guy is saying that "roguelike" requires permadeath and I'm asking why, because it's not self evident like with FPS. It's not like we have a general term "roguelike" and a specific term "permadeath roguelike". Obviously in that case "permadeath roguelike" requires permadeath but that's clearly not even close to what's happening here. I'm asking why roguelike means permadeath.
Why is Tangledeep for example not a roguelike when it has so many roguelike features that give the kind of gameplay people expect from a roguelike, when it plays so much like other roguelikes, when it appeals to roguelike fans and is talked about in the roguelike community?

Wtf are you doing in here then fuck off.

>But it plays pretty much like an over-the-shoulder Diablo game
There's nothing especially Diablo-like about Dark Souls though apart from maybe the aesthetics and emphasis on combat. You could claim that Dark Souls is an "over-the-shoulder" version of dozens of other games.

>I hate this term since most people forget about the "vania" part when they use it.
What's vania about level ups and loot grinding?

Are game journalists actually just qualified shitposters?

Nobody cares what random people like you think when you don't even play roguelikes. The roguelike community is going to call any game that plays like a roguelike, has a lot of roguelike features and appeals to roguelike players a roguelike. That's how genres work. You're just arguing purely from autism

Really? I find that the vast majority of modern metroidvanias are exclusively trying to copy Symphony of the Night and feel absolutely nothing like Metroid. It's actually one of my greatest frustrations with the genre because I love Metroid but hate Igavania.

Of course. 4X games are about beer, right?

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>Nethack and Angband
These also both have permadeath, retard.

C.U.M.S.

Who the hell doesn't know what doom and metroid are?

>Stop
No

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I remember a time where Diablo clones were called hack and slash.
That aside, Dark souls is missing a lot of shit in those games.

Yes but they're not rogue are they? They were just the 2 I named. The 5 "major roguelikes" as I've seen them called are Nethack, Angband, Crawl, ToME and ADOM. And guess what, ToME and ADOM have non-permadeath modes.

Not that user, but you're missing the point of his post by a few miles

Other oldfag here, disregard this user he sucks cocks and the tern doom-clone was used.

>Are game journalists actually just qualified shitposters?
Not even qualified most of the time, they just know people or suck the right gay dicks to get paid (very little) to write shitposts for a gay website which are edited and headlined by someone else anyway.

>Next article digs up the five people who say yes
>"Fans of the series' agree this needs to stop."

It’s a stupid term that came only into fashion after SOTN, but by then it was something Metroid had been doing for a decade.

Call them metroidlike. Every great "metroidvania" borrows fucking nothing from castlevania

The point is he's fucking retarded. Here's the line of conversation:
>Why should roguelikes be required to have permadeath?
>>Because it's a defining feature of Rogue, on which the name is based.
>Genres evolve, man! Roguelikes aren't actually based on Rogue any more. They don't need permadeath because they're ACTUALLY based on [TWO OTHER GAMES KNOWN FOR HAVING PERMADEATH]

Exactly right. That's the difference between something being a genre that references some inspirational title, and just outright "clones."

Clones are often direct and obvious ripoffs or attempts to cash in on the popularity of the cloned game, and are among the narrowest genre designations you can come up with. In the 90s, for example, you had "Street Fighter clones" and "Mortal Kombat Clones." They were all under the same basic fighting game genre, but it was often really obvious which games were copying Mortal Kombat and which games were copying Street Fighter.

No, he's right.
Elona's a roguelike, so is ToME, whether you like it or not.

Either way your point is wrong. You seem to have this idea that if you attack argument A with counterargument B as long as A is wrong that means B is right.

Meticulous
Exploration
That
Rewards
Off-The-Beaten-Path
Item
Discovery
Via
A
Natural
Interesting
Area

Games

Didn't read the article and don't know what the writer's reasoning is but he is right in that we should drop that name because it's just stupid.

I mean really, think of where it was derived from. Metroid + Castlevania = Metroidvania, which makes some extent of sense on the surface because those are two series known for that type of gameplay, but if you really think about it, it makes no sense because Metroid started it and held that style of gameplay long before Castlevania started doing it so what the fuck genre was Metroid before Castlevania copied it?. Castlevania went several years before adopting those gameplay mechanics and even then, it did things much differently by implementing RPG mechanics and Castlevania games have had deviations from the genre so it's silly to say Metroidvania when not all Castlevania games even use that genre. It's pretty stupid.

Just call the genre something that actually describes it. Call it a free roaming side scrolling action game or something.

And while we're at it, can we stop calling Souls-like a genre? It's not even necessary to give it that specific title because it already has a name, action RPG.

2D Actions games.
You are welcome.

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backtrack adventure experience

You're just reiterating that you failed comprehension of his point and don't understand what a genre is, how classification works, and why people even bother doing it in the first place.

favourite so far

dracula smackulas

Action games or even better, just games.
Distinctions and classifications are unnecessary and hurt my tiny little brain.

Metroid Prime: exists

Checkmate

>game is literally a igavania rip off
Based.
I've been saying this for a few months already: a Metroidvania is not a Metroid-like; a Metroidvania is literally an Igavania (e.g. Symphony of the Night) or an Igavania-like.

It's just game journalists being whiny asshole morons again. It's not a surprise.

Yeah it can go goes both ways. Metroid-likes and Igavanias are too different to be combined like that

>not manic

Metroid Prime is not a 2D game.

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>Japanese people can make WRPGS
If they make a game in the West, sure.
>Western people can make JRPGS
If they make a game in Japan, sure.
>Mass Effect is fundamentally a JRPG
Lol no. It's a western action RPG.

Dark Souls is an action RPG made by a Japanese developer (FromSoftware). Ergo, it's an action RPG, or JRPG if you will (Japanese Action RPG to be specific).

>Ok, the game is kinda like Zelda
>"What the fuck is a Zelda?"

Rogue -> Roguelike*
Doom -> Doomclone* -> First person shooter

Doomclone lost its meaning after "first person shooter" was coined, because not every first person shooter is like Doom, i.e. you wouldn't say Half-Life 2 or BioShock are "like Doom" aside from being first person shooters. There's none of the labyrinthian, fast paced game design of Doom that makes Doom very different from them.

Roguelike is still being used despite having lost its meaning because of stuff like Binding of Isaac.

The truth is the hierarchy is
>GENRE
>specific clones of certain games in the genre
And that's where Metroidvanias come in. Metroidvanias are games like Symphony of the Night, which in itself is a fucking ACTION PLATFORMER. It's only when you set out to make a clone of Symphony of the Night in most of its important aspects that you get a proper Metroidvania, i.e. a SotN-clone if you will.

A JRPG is closer to be a "Dragon Quest clone" (when used by retards) than it is to be its own genre.