Why did the stealth genre die?

dark souls didnt affect stealth games at all, fellow zoomer. believe it or not the stealth industry died before then

>This and MGS5
Haven't played it. Let me guess, the open world fucked it over?

It's pretty meh. Best level actually has no enemies in it that can hurt you and just fucks with you with a lot of scripting to make you feel like you're being watched.

not that guy but I thought the open world made MGS5 not fun. I liked it most in snake eater, when you had a generally linear level progression, but you could choose how to approach each zone

no

Look at the sales numbers for each game. They were in decline right after the first one. Chaos Theory actually sold less than Pandora Tommorow. People were just getting bored of pure stealth.

they stopped focusing on stealth and started focusing on not-stealth. simples.

Kinda. It was just really poorly executed overall, but still has enough strong points that people still play it.

The older crowd (who stealth games appealed to most) have either moved onto other genres or quit gaming all together. The younger crowd as the patients and attention span of a gnat and prefer instant gratification shooters with clown masks and scuba suit skins.

bad sales of poorly marketed games (Hitman Trademark comes to mind) and probably Far Cry 3. FC3 is a big dumb setpiece shooter, yes, but its stealth systems are just basic enough to be considered present and accounted for in marketing and then it was a huge financial success, one the company needed after Conviction was the worst selling game in the SC series, and what do you know every game that has stealth options since usually means just crouch-walking in bushes until you can kill a guy.

The old thief games are notable for their large levels really good sound design, which you had to use to gauge guard patrol patterns and distances. In moving to UE3 and after a decade of development hell and needing to complete the fucking game at some point now that dishonored threatened to make it irrelevant iirc most of which spent on whether or not the game was going to be a total reboot set in a neo-noir modern day those elements are completely gone. The tone is all over the place "GIVE IT TO ME HARDER, TWIST MY NIPPLES", a game in the same series as the grandfather of immersive sims now has setpieces with their own set of logic and rules, and it also has all the early 8th gen game technical oddities of hideous visual design and performance.

Deadly Shadows, the game before it, had a similar level of far superior quality to the point where it's one of only 10 video game levels notable enough to have a wikipedia article about its existence

I cant find any reliable numbers at all and its not exactly indicative of if a game is good or not

Dishonored was an excellent spiritual successor to the original Thief games, whereas Thief 2014 was just a bad Dishonored clone trying to cash in.
It barely tried to do anything else.

t. DarksoulsFag

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Well there are still stealth games out there with emphasis on light and sound. Problem is that they nerf the enemies by giving them all near-sightedness.

SC
XB 3.02m
PS2 2.65m
GCN 0.23m
GBA 0.10m
PC ?
___
~6 million, 5 platforms

PT
XB 1.48m
PS2 1.25m
GCN 0.08m
GBA 0.06m
PC ?
___
~2.87 million, 5 platforms

CT
XB 1.11m
PS2 0.95m
GCN 0.10m
DS 0.07m
PC ?
___
~2.23 million, 5 platforms

DA
XB360 0.78m
PS3 0.26m
Wii 0.13m
PSP 0.20m
GCN 0.06m
PC ?
__
~1.43 million, 6 platforms

CO
XB360 2.06m
PC ?
DS ?
__
~2.06 million, 3 platforms

BL
X360 1.00m
PS3 0.98m
WiiU 0.13m
PC ?
__
~2.11 million, 3 platforms

Source: vgchartz.com/gamedb/games...=splinter cell

Despite its flaws, Dishonored truly did feel fresh for an inspired game. Shame that despite all its GOTY, the series had to be shelved for a while due to, I dunno, lack of direction despite the lore it has?

>missing data
>citing vgcharts

It's pretty sad, especially since the second game was so beautiful artistically and improved plenty upon the gameplay.
They just couldn't leverage the world that they'd built into anything other than another "welp, you got framed and lost your position of privilege by some douche, time to take out their supporters one by one" story.

new generation of audience don't have the patience for games like this

Fill it in yourself. It's not hard to guess what contribution PC sales had.

I fucking hate stealth games mostly because the AI is always garbage
>Make a sound
>"Huh? what's that"
>Goes to investigate
>Looks around
>"Huh must've been the wind"

>Escape from enemy
>"Where did he go?"
>...
>"We'll find it eventually"
>Goes back to peacefully roaming

>See a teammate's corpse
>"We're under attack..."
>Goes back to peacefully roaming

If you're a developer and your stealth game has all of these then you're just one lazy fuck.

its unreliable so whats the point? the real numbers could be double whats posted and we wouldnt even know the difference

plus they blew a lot of their load in the second game through the Outsider death DLC. I'm sure a lot of people would've preferred an anthology rather than forcing Emily into becoming a ninja daughter.

>Dishonored was an excellent spiritual successor to the original Thief games
It wasnt though. Dishonored has way too many OP movement abilities that completely trivialize stealth, its basically stealth game for console retards that need "press x to dissapear", on top of having enemies with really braindead AI.

Still a decent game, but its nowhere close to Thief.

in a way though isnt that more fun? most stealth games have a few missions where you cant make a single mistake (and no bodies discovered) but its really stressful and not that fun, usually leading to quick-save abuse

This is usually what happens in freeroam and semi-freeroam games. In linear stealth, they usually stay on alert.

It's not unreliable, that's your opinion. The numbers clearly reflect reality and what has happened to the series.

Well putting players into panic mode would be an interesting game element especially with stealth games that don't have quicksave. Nerfing stealth mechanics vs stress is a hard decision for developers but it often leads to repetitive gameplay throughout similar video games.

a love letter to the thief games would be a more accurate statement.

It would be so much fun playing as a spy working for Emily (perhaps trained by Corvo) and infiltrate the other isles and cities to investigate some kind of complot against the Empress or something. Throw some stuff about The Outsider and all that supernatural stuff and it's done.

youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU
He's right you know

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Zoomers were born and raised into ADHD and can't handle the pacing of real stealth games.

Or go GTA V style and have three protagonists. Each choice would either hinder or help the others. They don't even have to know each other, but it makes the moral dilemma choices a whole lot better than chokeholding everyone. Plus it's a great excuse to reuse a map while locking and unlocking parts of it depending on who you're using.

Playing this on nightmare difficulty made me almost shit my pants sometimes, that fucking alien nigger was really scary. Even after you figure out how his vision works and become able to abuse it its still tense as fuck, its prob the only game in the last 15 years or so that kinda made me sweat while stealthing around.

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Imagine being The guard in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Fisher, where did ya go, all invisible and shit, with your body in the shadows. I totaly cannot see you right there over me with a giant bulb of light behind you. when all he really wants to do is shot the fucking guy right in the balls. Like seriously imagine having to be Soldier and not only have to ignore the guy in plain fucking sight right in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing the giant 3 green lights he carries in his head, while he just sits there, ,load after load, until he perfected the take down. Not only having to tolerate the fucking audacity of hiding in plain fucking sight but her haughty attitude as everyone on here tells you that DANM THATS THE BEST STEALTH GAME EVER MADE. WHERE DID FISHER GO??? IS HE A GHOST OR SOMETHING??? because they're not the ones who have to walk pass there and watch the fucking elephant in the room jump from 2m onto the ground making the biggest sound in the world and you have to act like you didnt noticed it. You trained your entire life in the best boot camps in russia and was survived war zones that were considered suicide missions your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Afeganistam. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on his fucking balls while he just hangs in there waiting for you to pass, smugly assured that you are oblivious to the king of stealth(for that is what he calls himself)" , the stealth he worked so hard breaking every single light bulb in the previous room's. And then the player reloads again, and you know you could kill the fucker before he even finishes climbing the wall, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Professional. You're not going to lose your future main character status in a generic FPS game over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

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Because zoomers are too stupid for stealth games.

is that celino and barnes?

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This. Really underappreciated game, mostly because all retards play it on easy/medium and have infinite flamethrower ammo, and alien isnt a threat anymore. Nightmare shouldve been the default difficulty when it comes to amount of flamethrower ammo you get.

Or they should just have never given you the flamethrower in the first place, or maybe only when the second alien comes in

>Be a spy for the empress and choose to betray her and her people due having a loved one threatened by unknown forces
>Be a Daud grunt working to become his successor and some shit goes down where you're given some impossible task which may involve killing the Empress's closest friends
>Be an Outsider-worshipping fuck with apocalyptic prophecies that contradict each other, telling you to do this or shit happens, then realizing you can't even trust your visions.

and some rat infestation punishments on the side.

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I think he means the fact that sekiro was going to be a reboot of tenchu, but they ended up just making it into darksouls but in Nippon

>her haughty attitude
Who hurt you, sweetie?

Did he deserve to say that after his mechanics got ridiculously simplified after Conviction?

ME WANT SHOOT THING

ME DONT WANT GO SLOW

ME WANT BOOM BOOM

>not recognizing that copy pasta

wow what a newfag

Or the fact that his series is dead and not even getting any new games.

Although I seriously hope they do at least one more before Michael Ironside retires completely. A good one along the lines of Chaos Theory. I can dream.

Shall we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?

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My first few nights in Dying Light were some great stealth moments mostly because I didn't know I had a flashlight so I just used the UV light to guide me and that thing only lasts a few seconds.
The magic vanished once I found I could use the flashlight.

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Nobody (no one) has cared about Syphon Filter for years now.

Ubisoft would probably approve one more game only if it ties into the Assassin's Creed franchise like they kept doing to Far Cry and Watch Dogs back in the day

Honestly? Stealth is just a "videogamey" game mechanic. Let me explain. When you first play a (good) stealth game, it feels very immersive and everything just werks. The longer you play it, the more you can tell that it has rules and it's a video game. You start realizing how to abuse the system really hard, making for very unimmersive gameplay. You essentially start to metagame the game, and this happens because in stealth games, you are usually punished pretty hard if you are caught, so you are trained to abuse the stealth mechanic. Eventually, you aren't really immersed in the game anymore, you aren't a ninja, you aren't a stealth secret agent, you're this faggot that has his head popping around the corner but somehow the dumbass guard doesn't see you because you're wearing boots that make you quieter or some shit. It's also a lot harder to "make the game harder" because there usually isn't a middle ground. You either abuse the stealth mechanics, or abuse everything but the stealth mechanics. They aren't developed enough to have a middle ground, where as, let's say, an rpg with turn based strategy can be different in what class you pick and whether you want to use status effects, etc. It's hard to roleplay in a stealth game as well, because the rules are already so well established, and you can't go too far away from them. Sorry if I rambled I just woke up

I did

t. never played chaos theory or thief tdp

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to play games as an overpowered motherfucker who can take on armies without stopping to take a piss.

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>Why did the stealth genre die?

Everyone wanted that COD money... everything got action-ified.

Yeah, it was good.

I have never played chaos theory, but thief has the same issues I said. Redpill me on chaos theory

keep it contained, tho

Same reason why Tactical shooters like the early rainbow 6 and Swat series. Those games required you to be patient and were punishing when you fucked up. Normal Fags hate the idea of patience and planning.

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No game is immersive if you think like this. You could break down any game genre to just being a bunch of mechanics to meta-game if you are autistic.

Stealth games died because people stopped making interesting stealth games with purpose and engaging stories.
It's literally as simple as that, it's a dead genre because nobody wants to revive it with something good

The answer is and always will be invasion of normalfaggots into vidya.

I agree. Stealth mechanics, however, force you to abuse the mechanics more than other genres, because of how punishing/different the game is when you get caught. Pretty much every single game has a way to metagame the fuck out of it and minmax everything, but how easy it is to figure out how to do that on your own is the difference.

Dishonored is nowhere near as good as the origional theif games.

It's a niche genre, thus it doesn't sell very well compared to other styles of games that big name developers could make. However, I just got a good character action game and a good Resident Evil game this year, so maybe I'll get a good stealth game and a good shmup made this year and then I can kill myself because I'll never be that happy again.

theres literally entire blocks of data missing and literally zero historical data to back it up.

it is unreliable by definition

It's a niche genre, whose QoL improvements meant it became boring and tedious.
MGSV has stealth elements, but people called it boring because they practically did the same thing, despite MGSV not being primarily a stealth game. So faggots tranq'd their way through all missions.
Hi™an 2016/2018 were okay and fun, but nobody liked it because:
core players didn't like how streamlined it became, with fair reason, and didn't care to turn those options off
casual audience simply followed waypoints and got bored with how tedious everything became
developers thought their QoL improvements would make their stealth games appeal to more gamers.. that was true, except they didn't count on the casual audience getting bored when the game loop revealed itself via their streamlining bullshit.

Too much of a pussy to play this or warrant buying it, but I've watched a couple LPs and I'm super into the atmosphere and 70s Alien aesthetic.

Let me also give an example to further explain my point. Now, I'm not saying skyrim is a good stealth game, in fact, it's barebones as fuck. BUT

How many people, on their first playthrough of skyrim, ended up with a stealth archer? Some people wanted to go that route of course, but I reckon the majority weren't really even thinking about how they wanted to "build" their character, they just naturally went for the best option. Skyrim at least has the replayability factor, and the game is designed with only stealth in mind, but even then, it's hard not to use stealth at all, even as a warrior. It's just so efficient and easy to abuse.
Now imagine a game where all you can do is stealth. You're options are severely limited, and the game is riding on the fact that the AI won't be weird or finnicky, and that the "rules" of the stealth aren't immediately obvious to the player.

>but i dont do that u retard lol
Sure, maybe you don't, but that's why the stealth genre is kind of dying out. Most players DO do that.
I'd love to hear a counter argument, because I unironically want to like stealth games and have them flourish, but I just don't think it will logically happen.

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Why would you be afraid to play it? Just go and get it if you think you will enjoy it.

Personally? I think its because with the exception of the Splinter Cell games, the stealth genre is almost joined to the hip with the horror genre. Every single fucking stealth game besides SC seems to have horror elements in it, and I fucking HATE horror games. They always treat the PC as a helpless little lamb and that's why they have to hide from the enemies. Fuck that noise.

Oh Tenchu gets a pass too by the way. Tenchu is awesome.

You might just have a point.

Yes and no. MGSV has a ton of problems, and even if it weren't open-world, that wouldn't help fix a ton of it. However, one of its biggest downsides is the bland empty open world and the piss-poor level design of most missions that just consist of "go to guard outpost #1103 and kill/extract the target". This combined with the "plot" that might as well not exist at all make MGSV really feel like the skeleton of what COULD have been a really good game, but it just got left in the alpha stages.

I HAVE NO COUNTER ARGUMENT BUT I THINK YOU ARE WRONG SO FUCK YOU

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I think that the 2016 Thief game gets more shit from people than it deserves.
My only real criticisms about the game are:
A. Garret is dressed like a gimp for some reason.
B. The FUCKING LOAD TIMES AND WINDOW LOAD SCREENS EVERYWHERE JESUS FUCKING CONSOLES FUCKING THE GAME OVER (this happened to Deus Ex as well)
C. The story is retarded.

At least gameplay-wise it tries to be a stealth game. If it had any form of moddability, I feel confident fans could have come up with plenty of good missions for it.

That being said:
www.thedarkmod.com

Every part of your moveset and every gadget you have (except the assault rifle) is viable and there's a time and a place for using them but the game leaves it up to you to decide where and when that is. CS has two stealth layers, light and audio, the "meta" scenario would be no light and lots of noise but this is almost impossible in most cases since every action you take will favor one over the other. Knocking out the power might turn off the lights, but it would also turn off the noise-making machines that let you get away with running behind guards and force you to crawl around them. Interrogating enemies could give you lifesaving info about shortcuts and hidden objectives but it's risky as it forces you to sneak up to a literal inch away from them, and the process takes a long time and kills your movement.

>Hitman
>Splinter Cell
>MGS
>Tenchu
>Thief
you got a little in thief, but that’s about it as far as the big stealth franchises are concerned.

That's a problem that's very common in modern "stealth" games. Stealth feels like no more than an optional or self-imposed challenge in games like Dishonored or the Adam Jensen Deus Ex games. Stealth gameplay only works if it's more viable than going in guns-blazing. And if games like DXHR or MGS5 allow you to quite easily just go in running and gunning (even easier than trying to do stealth, usually) then why even bother? There's usually no incentive, or very poor incentives.

There really is no middle ground with stealth gameplay. You can't make it optional, because if Commando is just as viable, there's no point.

>Hitman
Hitman is not 'sneak in the shadows' stealth, its 'disguise' stealth. Difference.
>Splinter Cell
I already gave that an exception
>MGS
Fine, I forgot MGS.
>Tenchu
I already gave that an exception
>Thief
Thief is fucking FILLED with horror elements you dunce.

>all of the stealth games that show you being a badass assassin or some shit that still has to take a realistic approach to fighting multiple enemies rather than going full master chief on them
Um, have you played any stealth games?

And to add on to THAT point, I don't really think this was clear, in most stealth games, stealth is the best option. Sometimes the only option. So you're always playing with it, and you're bound to figure out it's quirks. One counter argument I would use against my skyrim example would be that the stealth archer is the most fun option, and that's why it was picked the most, and not because it was the "best" option. Melee combat is fucking dickawful and magic just feels kind of weak.

That sounds really cool. I don't really think it addresses the main issues though, eventually you'll find out that doing x is better than y 95% of the time, and how to do x is easier everytime you do it. In my experience with games like that, it doesn't feel like the character you're playing is learning how to do something, it much more feels like you just figured something out, and started metagaming the situation. That being said, I've never played the game, it sounds really cool if executed well. Might check it out

>go to guard outpost #1103 and kill/extract the target
I don't understand how this is a complaint.
Do you complain that Hitman missions solely consists of "Go to this person's office/room and kill him" too?
Blood Money, one of the most praised stealth game and Hitman game has all missions where you do the same thing over and over.
MGSV is no different, and is an action game with only some stealth elements.

>eventually you'll find out that doing x is better than y 95% of the time, and how to do x is easier everytime you do it
...this can be described for literally every game ever

Splinter Cell was never good. These games were depressing as hell even. So dark, so generic. Very mediocre games. The first game has to be the most saddest game I have ever played. It is such a product of its time. I struggled to get through it. Everything is so dark and drab. Just made me want to kill myself. I've never played any other games that put me in such a low mood like Splinter Cell games did.

Yes, but again, you can easily explain it away via roleplay in other games, or just choose to ignore that option and play in a way your character you made "would", but in stealth games, that option usually isn't there. Read previous posts.

Never thought I'd see someone become nihilistic because of Splinter Cell.

>Hitman is not 'sneak in the shadows' stealth, its 'disguise' stealth. Difference.
you should probably clarify that in the first place
>I already gave that an exception
I know, I can read, unlike you:
>Thief is fucking FILLED with horror elements you dunce.
like I said, there’s some. even if I gave that to you 100%, that still puts it in the minority.

>Yes, but again, you can easily explain it away via roleplay in other games, or just choose to ignore that option and play in a way your character you made "would"
you can literally do that in stealth games too

This was the moment stealth died as a genre

youtube.com/watch?v=1bDpxKgS744

Because it's a gross simplification for Blood Money, but that's exactly what you get with MGSV. In no way are the "levels" (if you can even call them that) in MGSV even designed for proper stealth gameplay. The majority of the time they're just random collections of buildings and you can just strafe around the perimeter and bypass everything, every time.

Only a few times do I ACTUALLY feel like a secret spy on an infiltration mission. The one where you rescue the robotics scientist and the infiltration of OKB Zero. That's basically it.

>view this thread
>come back an hour later
>hundreds of users discussing stealth

Always. ALWAYS.

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Just do suit only runs bro

Now you're just being disingenuous. If you ignore the stealth part of a stealth game, you get a shitty half baked fps or 3rd person shooter, and that's if they even let you do that. You're ignoring the main part of the game, and the game usually isn't designed with that in mind. If the game you're thinking of is, then it's a game with good stealth elements, but not a stealth game. The only real options you have is whether or not to kill people, or go through vents, most of the time in stealth games.
>go into thread about stealth games
>hurrr why are people talking about stealth

In Splinter Cell, nearly every level has a different "ideal strategy" that can only be seen in multiple playthroughs, the "meta" changes all the time. Maybe you thought that using your EMP pistol on electrical lights was the perfect strategy, but what if every light was a candle that you had to blow out to extinguish? Maybe you thought the sniper rifle and shotgun were useless, but what if the game introduced an armored surveillance drone that can only be permanently destroyed with these weapons? Maybe you thought isolating and picking off enemies one at a time was the way to go, but what if you're suddenly caught in a shootout between two warring factions who make a lot of noise but are permanently on high-alert? Etc etc.

I don't mean that, I mean it's always a subject of discussion. I've never seen a thread about the genre that doesn't have a minimum of forty or fifty answers, it's not a dead genre, not at least in relation to the players.
The problem is something else, perhaps the industry has changed too much for us to notice now, but there are really many people waiting for a title based on stealth which has only increased since Fischer's appearance in Wildlands and Hitman 2. .

zoomers.

PSA: like stealth games? Try out the Styx games, steam has em on sale. good shit.

you can pick whether or not to use certain methods and gadgets, as well. a good example is the tranq gun in mgs, or blink in dishonored: two very tempting tools that you can choose not to use to cheese the game.

on the other hand, I don’t see people stealthing doom, or doing a pacifist run on call of duty.

I guess general audiences got too impatient for the stealth genre in favor of fps games and free to plays

>way too difficult for modern gamers
>needs solid level design, something modern developers lack the ability to do well
>ai tends to be stupid in these games since the gameplay needs to revolve around stealth and give the player a fighting chance to beat the game
>stealth games improve greatly with use of shadows and lighting, something that modern developers also suck balls at doing
>modern marketers rely on flashiness of action games to sell to gamers, something that is the complete opposite of what a good stealth game should be

I'd like to confidently call you a faggot, but the reality is I haven't played the original Splinter Cell since idk Double Agent over 10 years ago, Chaos Theory even longer. But I AM pretty sure you are a fag so it is what it is.

genres have been consolidated and mixed so much that proper pure triple a stealth games don't really exist anymore, stealth is everywhere but it's always an "option". left are more indie developers and studios making pure stealth games, but don't have the budget or receive enough attention. last years Ghost of a Tale is really excellent and people should play it, but really got zero attention.

if publishers were just willing to fund a big budget, slow paced, methodical, "hardcore" and pure stealth game and market it well as a proper stealth power fantasy like the classic Splinter Cell, Hitman or Thief games, it'd sell very well. old school fps and survival horror is back and very popular after years of being basically dead because publishers finally decided to give them a chance, and it's paid off excellently. there's no reason the same can't happen with stealth.
>splinter cell
>depressing
they were full of goofy accents and funny dialogue though, at least the good ones were and especially Chaos Theory. if you think sc is dark and depressing, I'd hate to see how you go with Thief.

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You can add the original deus ex to that as well. A few ranks in rifles and you can kill anyone with ease.

>you can pick whether or not to use certain methods and gadgets, as well. a good example is the tranq gun in mgs, or blink in dishonored: two very tempting tools that you can choose not to use to cheese the game.
This is true, but doesn't address the main flaw which is how the AI reacts to the player in a certain vicinity. The extra items can make the game much easier, sure, but the main actual mechanic of stealth is something that you can usually see right through.
>on the other hand, I don’t see people stealthing doom, or doing a pacifist run on call of duty.
That's because the core gameplay is what it is. You shoot stuff and kill stuff with big guns. Or you run and gun. You probably aren't abusing weird glitches or wonky AI because doom is easy enough and being fast is part of the fun. Ironically, some missions in Call of Duty feel "BS" and a lot of players tend to start abusing the AI because of this , but that can't really be 'done' in a multiplayer setting. The most you get is minmaxed players fighting other people, but that's just the inevitably of a competitiveness of a multiplayer game, where the goal is to outsmart/skill your opponent and less to get immersed in the world of call of duty.

what more can really be done with the stealth genre?

> Splinter Cell was never good
True. SC is a Thief rip-off with dumbed down level design, story, difficulty, etc. At least MGS and Hitman are their own thing.

you can learn and abuse mechanics and ai in other games, and get forced into certain playstyles as well, but apparently only when stealth games do it is it immersion breaking.

The genre has plenty left to do. How about you ask such a question with all these generic TPS and FPS instead that have tens of thousands of games?

I wish msg 5 had highly detailed levels instead of Open world missions. I had lot of fun with ground zeros but main game just isn't the same. Kojima tried to excel the game in to many directions but it ended up not exceling in either one, it feels incomplete.

the lack of waifus certainly helps

>I think he means the fact that sekiro was going to be a reboot of tenchu,

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There is literally no scene in all of Dishonored that involve the tone from this picture

>>Most stealth games can be beaten in a day and people prefer HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF CONTENT
Why is this considered a bad thing?

Fuck your cuck stealth shit. Rip and tear is where it's fucking at.

Go play Thief Simulator and turn hard mode on.

web.archive.org/web/20190506012059/https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sekiro-shadows-die-twice-originally-started-as-a-t/1100-6461426/

They were planning on making a new tenchu but they realized that it would be better just to make a souls game.

It's the idea of getting your moneys worth. Most people would rather have a game that's 100 hundred hours long and boring rather than 10 hours of pretty good.

short term incentives unlike that shiny S rank the player gets at the end of the mission after spend 5 minutes in a bathroom stall

the short term incentives may include funny stuff between guards , sexy stuff between females npcs or geneal shit that people wont be doing if there was a gunfight going on or if they saw a man in a latex suit with infrared goggles walk past them

>SC is a Thief rip-off
? The levels aren't big enough and are far too linear for that. If it was a Thief rip-off, I'd like it more than I do already.

The Styx games were pretty good. Also most Survival/Milsim style games scratch a lot of people's stealth itch.

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They’re smaller a linear because it had to run on the Xbox

I suppose I get it.
Then again, I'm a huge JRPG nerd so playing a game for hours on end is nothing new.

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>cowadoody normie tries to run through the mission guns blazing
>dies
>wtf this game sucks
>tells all his normie friends who tell their friends
>suddenly thousands of normies screaming that the game sucks

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Reminder that Splinter Cell still didn't get new game this gen, while MGS, Hitman and Deus Ex did.

Smooth and standardised controls ruined the genre. Stealth games should be clunky to make combat nonviable.

What's wrong with MGSV? The gameplay is great.

pretty sure this is pasta

controls ehh, combat definitely. Way too easy to just shoot your way out of problems.
Hell, the tranq in MGS is terrible for encouraging this.

Level design (lack of it), empty open world.
Genuinely play Far Cry games for better open world stealth experience.

The incentive is fun?

"fun" is meaningless when it's the slow option.

For better or worse mostly worse the stealth genre was consumed by action game genre. More and more you see shooters and the like getting stealth options in a lot of areas. Occasionally a game will allow you to play through the game completely like that. And franchises that are focused on stealth have options to go loud and ignore it altogether. I'm pretty conflicted in a lot of areas on this subject. I find the stealth in older games in the genre to be superior. But why is that? Early splinter cell and metal gear solid games had clunky controls that made going loud more of a chore than anything. And nowadays with streamlined controls it makes going loud easy. Those are big contributes but a good stealth game can easily be made around smooth controls. I think its more about level design being shelved as an afterthought in place of cinematics and "realistic" graphics. They want it to look good for a trailer or screenshot for the ad campaign.

>the stealth genre died

Alien Isolation was a success and several games have partly in depth stealth elements, like TLOU.

I think pure genre games in general don't really exist anymore and everything is a hybrid.

To Splinter Cell: I guess they realized they will never ever do a perfect flawless game without any kind of failure like Chaos Theory ever again, so they switched to a completely different approach after Double Agent.
Sadly, Blacklist kinda sucks. The fucking shadows don't work in a SC game of all franchises, this alone makes it the worst game in the franchise. Also when I want to play as Commander Shepard I play Mass Effect and not SC, where they completely changed his persona (and I'm not even speaking about his voice).

I shamefully refunded this game even though I though it was amazing, because it was simply too scary for my pussy ass to play through

Chaos Theory is still console trash when it comes to execution, it's considerably more janky than first two games. Playing on PC you can really tell that Sam's movement is tailored to the analog stick. Double Agent was even worse, PC version was fucked up beyond repair.

Chaos Theory simply lacked memorable missions compared to the first two games. Bank was good but that was that. Yea Forums only sucks it off because it was their first stealth game desu.

Only MGS2 ever really did anything to sort of fix this in the genre. No other game before or since has. It isn't perfect but its something.

Retarded post

Dishonored ripped off as many themes as it could from Thief and managed to ruin every single one. Gas yourself, sincerely

I always liked the theory that the guards don't really *want* to find an intruder, so they kind of half ass the investigating unless they're immediately in danger, like when they turn around as you're sneaking up on them. Doesn't help with actual gameplay, but it's fun fluff to explain a common problem.