The artstyle is beautiful, the combat is fast and satisfying...

colorful
Look at Greenpath, for example.

Yes?

>Elaborate?
the latter. I kinda like it anyway but platforming and this backtracking doesn't mix well. but maybe it's just me

To gather those red orbs and fight optional ''boss'' fights.

>backtracking
Has there been another word in all of video game history that more succinctly demonstrates that someone has ADHD?

I always thought it looked like lazily drawn shite

Am I missing something?
Just finished Ori and it was fine, hell it was a good, solid game but nowhere near worth as much praise as I seen it get, the story was cute but incredibly simple, gameplay was basic. Hollow knight was way more captivating for me.

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Ori has top comfy visuals and music.

>lost
>check steam achievements
>less than 50% of all games bought were played beyond the exact point at where i currently am

dropped

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Look, people with no taste or artistic understanding.
Yes, the character designs are simplistic and cartoony, that does not make the art style bad.

Not op
backtracking can just be plain boring, even for someone with patience, especially if you gotta walk through the same place for the 5th time just to get to another area that was blocked off earlier.

>can't make it through Monomon's house without crystal dash
fuck

So you're admitting that you are in the bottom ~50% of players? That's pretty embarrassing for you.

If you have ADHD, sure.

Point and laugh

nah man i draw too well for you to use that kind of argument against me (pic related)

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If the backtracking turns you off, it might just be the wrong genre for you mate.

Should I get Bloodstained?

I only dislike the backtracking - this game is great at wasting your time.

Otherwise it's been fantastic and I don't know why I waited so long to try this game out.

Bud, I don't know how to tell you this, but you are a complete amateur.
That is a terrible painting for more reason than one, and the fact that you are proud of it is concerning.

i don't consider myself to be good, but you were critiquing my lack of artistic understanding, even though i'm quite sure i understand art more than you do, that's all

>matpat made a video about this
Hollow Knight has entered true normalfag core.

It has no place in this board anymore.

I liked it, has some style and the shadows are nice. it does look unfinished at best tho, and being proud of that is a bit too much.
And back to the subject: i like HK's style, it does not look lazy or lifeless as people keep stating, perhaps they outdid the gray but it IS a cave most of the game so..

>Over a dozen fast travel stations.
>Tram with three stops.
>Teleportation you can set anywhere.
>You still see faggots wishing for more stag stations or that benches were fast travel points.
I'm convinced these are the effects of garbage like Uncharted or nu-GOW saving your progress every five steps, people have lost all patience for actually playing a game and just want nonstop explosions and QTEs shoved in their face.

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This is you
m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jQkxsEbnS4

He has also made like 5 smash videos
I’d you wanna get rid of both, I don’t mind

i sound based af

The problem is that, unless you are good at gitting gud, you have to backtravel to "grind" for charms/mask shards/etc to make your odds better against bosses. And a few of the bosses are lightyears away from the nearest bench, so even if you follow the git gud route instead of looking for shit you'll still waste time retreading your steps.

And that teleportation thing is super late game.

thanks man

>And a few of the bosses are lightyears away from the nearest bench
Name them.

just want to know, how long was your 1st playthrough, anons?

There's actually not that many, all I can think of are Soul Master and Hive Knight

>even though i'm quite sure i understand art more than you do, that's all
lmfao
I drew better than you at 16. Your skills are Drawing 1 level.
Draw from life more, study anatomy more, seek critique, don't get complacent.

What style? It's a sloppy out of proportion portrait with poor brushwork. He also needs to work on his value range, as most of the image is midtone.

So two bosses out of 40-something require like two minutes of backtracking. And let's not pretend Hive Knight is something most people will repeatedly die to.

>50 more minutes of backtracking
????

post drawings

To be fair, if you were hard headed like me and got to the Hive with literally no upgrades then Hive Knight will most definitely fuck you in the ass.

If I were your drywall, I'd be sweating right now, because you are SEETHING

Would you like to see my BFA and driver's license too?
Work harder. Take a life drawing class.
If you're willing to post your stuff on Yea Forums, utilize /ic/ too.

no proof then, you're just talking out of your ass

Here

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no man, a drawing that testifies of your drawing skills would suffice

i'm the opposite
i love the exploration and platforming but hate the combat

Yeah, I'd say that's qualifies as "a few," maybe even "a couple" if you're just being a pedant

Yeah no.
I'm not dumb enough to post my art on Yea Forums. I am factually a better artist than you, but you'll just have to take my word for it because I have no desire to prove anything.
Even if I were a shitty artist, that would not change the fact that the painting you posted is that of a beginner, and more than that, you don't have to be a good artist to have good taste.

>The artstyle is beautiful
nah it's boring and dull and it all looks like a flash game from 2012 with mildly more detailed backgrounds, the colors especially bored the fuck out of me

Is there any metroidvania that has a level and world design as good as HK? I want something that I can explore and find as many surprising things as I did with HK

sure man, sure, i'll just take your word for it i guess

super metroid has better world and level design you could try that

30

World, yes. Level, no. Too much of the progressing involves hitting random walls with random weapons in hope of finding the specific breakable one that has isn't any different than the others.

Also combat and movement in that game is a chore. Overall it didn't age well.

Great.
But more importantly improve YOUR art. You are a beginner. Being a beginner is fine, because everyone is at some point, but it's not fine to stay a beginner. Do. Not. Get. Complacent.

No matter how hard I try, I can't beat the sewer worm.
Is there some trick, or am I just shit?

FUCK ASCENDED MARKOTH

> random walls
its entirely predictable which walls are breakable though, most are a specific block type you can memorize and others are clearly implied by the flow of the environment

>Also combat and movement in that game is a chore.
idk man there's literally nothing difficult about any of the combat in the game id argue HK is too focussed on its shallow combat in a genre about exploration instead

>Overall it didn't age well.
nah it's timeless and still the best metroidvania ever made imo

Fluke Marm?
There's not really a trick, just make sure to stand somewhere where you won't get overwhelmed by the adds.

The combat is the only things that adds tension and life to the world. In SM you just get so many health packs to compensate for Samus' maneuverability of an obese cow that you can just facetank everything while you shoot rockets at its face. In HK you're forced to learn what enemy does and act accordingly, as you have very little life to spare.

You can wordswordswords all you want, but you didn't even provide even the slightest critique beyond "it's bad so bad lmao how so bad? btw bad" and then flippantly waved away any requests to show your own art. In doing so, you've destroyed your already flimsy 'credibility' and now you just stink of dunning-Kruger. To which you'll just retread your steps about having to take your word for it, when the burden of proof is on you.
By all means, provide actual critique to that user's art. Whip up a quick sketch, o lord of the art. Don't give me that "b-but muh art on 4chins" nonsense. If you're as good as you say, cribbing someone else's style should be ezpz for you, or even just drawing something simplistically. Or even just a basic sketch of anything sans signature.
Sounds like you're complacent in your thinking.

They all have a base design that is unremarkable. There are no memorable bug characters in that game except the drecula rip off and the true final boss, maybe the cool dung character with his great personality. Hornet looks meh and so do all the others

That fucking wizard guy that has two phases. I only lost 1 time to him but it was still annoying. Thank God for the dash.

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I literally critiqued the drawing already, re-read the reply chain.

Second nail upgrade lets you one hit kill the flies. I just stood in a corner building soul by killing flukefeys then spamming vengeful spirit

For the Radiance

45 hours because I took my sweet time with the game, spread out my playthroughs and didn't make each of them too long, causing me to sometimes not play the game for at least a week, come back and then forget where I had planned to go next.

>The combat is the only things that adds tension
so none of the music or level design added any tension for you then what the fuck
>Samus' maneuverability of an obese cow
idk what game you played people argue its a little floaty but that's it if you have real trouble playing sm idk what the problem is, sounds more like you played HK first and then went into SM and gave up like 1/10th of the way in
>In HK you're forced to learn what enemy does and act accordingly, as you have very little life to spare.
yeah but combat genuinely isnt the focus of metroidvanias, hk has so many bossfights it might as well have been a boss rush game and that's exactly what the dlcs became, the combat is pretty shallow and boring and every bossfights felt like a chore because id rather be going through cool environments and figuring out what ability i need to get through the next ability gate, hk's areas are mostly just bland too

You don't know what you're talking about.

I’m sorry user, but you’re retarded

>Can't even prove me wrong
Hollow Knight faggots are insufferable because they can't even fathom how someone doesn't suck the game's cock on everything. Your game is not as special as you think it is.

>every bossfights felt like a chore
Sounds like you don't like bossfights in general. I personally thought they were fine and many of them provided interesting challenges. It's nice to have as many bosses because they help break up the exploration segments, making for a nice and constant change of pace that keeps you on your toes about whether the area you're headed too will have a boss and how it will play.

Can't prove you wrong about what, retard? You said I didn't critique the drawing. I factually already did. A skimming of the reply chain proves this.

it's mostly good because of the animation. the characters themselves are pretty basic
nice backgrounds tho

>Sounds like you don't like bossfights in general
eh i do when the combat is fun enough on its own and it isnt just dark souls back and forth dodging and striking, i really liked dmc's bossfights for instance

but yeah our opinions and tastes seem very much juxtaposed so i guess there's no further point in arguing

Why is simple bad? Just because it’s simple doesn’t mean it’s not good.

>bullshit platforming jumps.
git gud

What on earth do you think "juxtaposed" means?

>Critique some random drawfag while I'm talking about the character designs on the fucking game
what an obnoxious faggot

I just want a good metroidvania that has actual exploration and surprising moments, not shitty semi-linear platformers that plague 90% of the tag in Steam. What should I play?

No that sounds exactly like the Metroid formula.

uuuh not what i thought it meant clearly, i was just trying to say our views were opposite of one another

>the combat is fast and satisfying,
Fast, sure. Satisfying? No.

Most enemies have no reaction to your hits other than getting pushed back and flashing slightly. In terms of recent 2D animation sprite work, Dead Cells is much better in this regard, with enemies actually having proper reactions to your attacks instead of just pushback and flashing like a 1990s arcade game.

Bosses are even worse. I remember fighting that boss with the glowing orange brain about halfway through the game (I forgot his name since it's been so long since I played the damn game) and his "ouch, I am in pain!" reactions only happen after every dozen or so hits and serve more to indicate phases than anything else.

For a game that blatantly stole so many ideas from Dark Souls, Hollow Knight sure as hell forgot to copy the one thing that Dark Souls generally has been very good at, which is the aforementioned enemy reactions to hits.

the messenger

I for some reason thought you were replying to a different post, disregard.
In regards to the character design of Hollow Knight: I could teach you about core concepts of character design and demonstrate how Hollow Knight exemplifies them despite having a simplistic art style, or I could just call you a retard and be done with it.

Dark Souls

okay, now post art you actually finished retard

You may only post in this thread if you have unlocked the Zote main menu theme

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He said metroidvania.

Go play ESA lad.

hollow is really ugly tho.
awful, fat, unrefined lines. deviant-art tier shading and muh-purp.

Pic not related?

Based

>filtered by hornet
running simulators seem more your alley, champ

>blatantly stile so many ideas from Dark Souls
You had me going believing it was a serious post until this part. Good one.

Not so fast.

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>people complaining about how soul master is too fat away from a bench
There's a breakable shortcut in an elevator wall that takes you to cornifer's bench, you useless fucks

My opinion too. Some enemies look like they were resized on photoshop to be bigger and that's why their lines are so rough. This shit is Castle Crashers level of ugly. They just hide it with by having the game just black and white.

I played it, horrible. The fact that you're just fighting a whooping 3 types of enemies the entire game kills it.

I complained about that itt but to be fair I only lost to him once. I still paid 150 for that bench next to the map guy just in case.

Where the fuck are you?

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>the game just black and white
lol

>n-no you're not allowed to like it anymore becuz it not sekrit klub
kill yourself contrarian loser

Played it. It was alright, but nothing much more than that. Since enemies never dropped anything (not even health packs) your best bet was to just rush through each area to try to remain as unscathed as possible till the next save point, which really made the gameplay worse than it could be.

Just beat Lost Kin. Holy fuck following that cunt into his dream was a bad idea but I fucking REFUSED to give up till I got his little ass. Yeah gimme that dream esscence you little grapefrut-headed faggot.
Best feel of the night.

The animations aren't outstanding. What is great is the atmospheric environments.

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>get to Eternal Ordeal after much effort
>fight a ridiculous array of zotelings with absurd proportions and baffling behavior
>each one weirder and dumber than the last
>finally get to 57 kills
>quit out to the main menu
>that fucking humming
I laughed for 15 minutes straight.
Well done you Aussie fucks.

What made HK's world so good?

Did you experience the wild as fuck post-game though?

>Since enemies never dropped anything (not even health packs)

They don't drop health packs, but hitting and killing enemies does fill up your meter which subsequently allows you to heal yourself if need be, so in a way they do drop health packs.

I guess not, but the game didn't manage to make me invested in its world to begin with, so it didn't have much of an effect.

Never in my post did I actually say it was bad. It's not, ori is a very fun game. It mearly didn't live up to the hype of people I've heard calling it amazing. It's a 7 while hollow knight would be a 9.

__________________Soul_________________________________________

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>hitting and killing enemies does fill up your meter which subsequently allows you to heal yourself if need be

Are you sure? I don't remember that.

Land of storms.

>he didnt complete the ritual
>he didnt A S C E N D
I pity you

>THICK OUTLINES BAD
Morons.
Also every time I hear the word "shading" I cringe. Quickest way to reveal that you know nothing about art.

He probably never even got to Greenpath. This is the caliber of person tries to say Hollow Knight is shit.

He's talking about ESA you tard.

It's kind of dumb that exiting the game back to the main menu brings you back to your most recent bench.

It means that always have a last-second way of saving yourself in case you feel like you're about to die and don't want to lose your "souls".

>Are you sure? I don't remember that.
>doesnt remember the most basic mechanic spelled out for you in the beginning

Oops. I just checked who you were responding to. I didn't realize you were talking about Environmental Station Alpha. Ignore what I said.

>MatPat thinks The Knight is The Pale King
Lmao

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>greenpath
Oh, it's black and white and green. A whole 3 colors lol

thick lines aren't bad but they're bad here because there's no attention paid to line widths at all.

it's an ugly game.

>tfw cat was thrown through and you can see the guy through the hole

>In HK you're forced to learn what enemy does and act accordingly, as you have very little life to spare.
Bullshit. Enemies don't do enough damage and about half of what you fight can be dealt with by blindly spamming attacks because you'll still come out on top after the healing that allows you to do. That's assuming the enemies in question are even able to hit you and don't just get pushed back over and over.

There's some retarded shit like locking content behind breakable walls only an autist would notice but for the most part this game is fucking fantastic.

>there's no attention paid to line widths at all.
There is, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Moron.

How did he become popular at all in the first place? I always hated the guy's guts. His earrapingly exaggerated voice, how shit his video editing is and how his theories used to be passable at best and have become complete dogshit by this point. Pretty sure he completely ignores the scene in the abyss where the knight is holding on to the side and you FUCKING SEE THE PALE KING LEAVE WITH THE HOLLOW KNIGHT just so he can make another cash-bringer. Guy's a washed up moron that needs to fall into irrelevancy.

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Never made past the first area, eh?

It's all about knowing the map. False knight, soul blast, grus mother, Sly, gatering charm, Greenpath, mosquito skip, hornet, queen station, mantis village, mantis claw, city of tears, city storeroom, get simple key, trade any relics you pick up on the way, ancient basin, get pale ore, nailsmit x2, soul sanctum, spire skip, cristal peak, superdash, sewers, ismas tear(just in case), fog canyon, monomon. at any point on this when you get 1800 geo buy the lantern for deepnest, go up and left, use ground smash for iframes on cockblocking assholes, get herra and go for the hollow knight and you are done. if you know your shit that is 3-4h

thick outlines have literally only looked good in two games, viewtiful joe and okami

Those games aged like milk.

I don't even know where to start with this post.

He's somewhat right.

I do wish the game was slightly rebalanced so that some if not most enemies had special wind-up attacks that did two pips of damage to you. All in all though the only real dangerous areas in the game is the Deepnest, Hive, some parts of the City of Tears, and Fog Canyon.

I braindeaded my way straight up through Soul Master. The only enemies I encountered that were even halfway threatening were the belflies and the larger jellyfish because they'd fucking explode if you hit them.

Not that guy, but tank 'n' spank is a very valid and effective tactic. Quickslash and quickfocus will remove any need for you to play cautiously, especially if you put strength on top of those two

The game is fucking black and white. I'm playing it right know, just completed the soul master entire area. Please stop the dick suckering.

Bloodstained has colors, Ori has colors. Hollow Knight is mostly black and white. It may be an artistic choice, but doesn't change the fact that its very monochromatic.

my biggest critique of the game is i cant remember what im supposed to do after not playing for a while

Sorry to hear about your lack of cone cells/brain cells.

you have shit taste zoomy both are classics

What did you say about me bich? it almost sounded like you dont like being fucked by BMC

You biggest critique is that you have ADHD?

>I'm not dumb enough to post my art on Yea Forums.
How insecure do you have to be?

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>backtracking + bullshit platforming jumps
Sounds like you just don't like metroidvanias.

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Don't pretend the game isn't cryptic as fuck by design you stupid fucking fanboy.

So basically you keep talking shit and when it's time to explain the artstyle and character, you keep avoiding it because you really have nothing to say about it other then "it's good". You're such a joke that I can't believe I took you seriously for even a second.

'Monochrome' and 'black and white' are two very different things.

>The game doesnt hold your hand and force you into a linear progression
aka good game design

Always called it Shallow Knight myself, babies first action platformer. There are soooo many indie games in the same vain, my only explanation of the success of this one is the simplicity

Go to areas you haven't been yet, ritalin boy.

SILKSONG

RELEASE DATE

WHEN

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

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Yeah me too. Now I'm going back to Bloodstained, a much better game.

Have fun doing damage control for your artsy fartsy bug game

Are you fucking dumb? HK is as straightforward as it can get without entering Guacamelee/Ori territory of linearity.

Insecurity isn't a factor. I don't want people IRL knowing I post on Yea Forums, I don't want people on Yea Forums knowing how to find me IRL.

holy shit you got btfo. now shut up and sit in your corner kid.

>Second nail upgrade lets you one hit kill the flies.
That would probably help. I guess I'll explore more.

You are also sorry to hear about your lack of brain and cone cells?

>I'm going back to Bloodstained, a much better game.
Okay, enjoy your stock assets I guess.

>artsy fartsy
lmao

Would be if the game wasn't such a repetitive piece of shit and all the areas looked the same.

You're a fucking liar. Plenty of people posted on /ic/ and nothing happened to them. Just say you don't actually fucking draw while pretending to be a know it all jackass who provides nothing of value.

Practice your art.

Horseshit. The game doesn't tell you anything.
I love the game but I can see why people ITT think you fanboys are fucking insufferable. Literally unable to admit the game has obvious flaws.

I have no clue why you would post anything at the retards who admire the simplistic artstyle of thrown together meaningless pieces that is shallow knight.

Look i get it if people admire the cartoony look, my problem is the senseless details

>You're a fucking liar
I'm not, and there's no reason to think that.

>Plenty of people posted on /ic/ and nothing happened to them
Great for them.

>Just say you don't actually fucking draw
I could, but that would be a lie. There's no value in lying while anonymous.

No personal example, nothing but a bait bitch

i want to be reminded of what i did/where i haven't gone when i load a game i haven't played in months/longer. i dont want to be told where to go throughout the game

Stop being such a faggot, user. No one's buying this "cool aloof artist" act.
Just draw something right now and post it. It doesn't matter if it sucks. Drawing is fun. Do you remember the last time you had fun?

Attached: hollowknight.png (380x380, 4K)

its shit

>the combat is fast and satisfying
I wish. Maybe then I might actually like this piece of shit. It's hands down the worst Metroidvania I've ever played so far and that includes third rate licensed games held back by low budgets like Phantom 2040. Game has every problem I have with the genre taken up to fucking 11 but also has nothing I actually want out of it.

There's no value to your truth at the moment, either. C'est la vie, right? :^)

So what, you want a fucking recap?
A "LAST TIME, ON HOLLOW KNIGHT"?
You are not helping your case.

Someone's cranky.

I'm not really concerned with what you believe and I have no desire to impress you.

Dumb shitposter.

Straight to the adhom, looks like we all hit a bullseye.
You sure must be lonely to put up a farce for this long, but now it's just kinda sad. Sure you wanna keep looking like a fool, user? ,':^)

Metroid doesn't have absurd pacing issues, rewarded a similar amount time spent exploring far more than HK does, and didn't shoot the key thing that makes exploration interesting - resource management - in the head for no fucking reason.

An adhom to what? There was no argument to counter, you made a shit post and I called you a shitposter. Here you've made another, and I'll call you one again, dumb shitposter.

>dude it's a dark and spooky post-apocalypse world
Hollow Knight is incredibly generic and forgettable in basically every aspect

Sure there was. Your statement of "There's no value in lying while anonymous" can be followed up with the very obvious fact that there's also no weight to your 'truth' while anonymous as well. Rather than address this, you returned to your previous lack of anything substantial and whined of shitposting instead.
Looks like you're equally short on brains, your presentation is starting to unravel.
Better patch up those leaks fast, user. Your ego might not be able to handle it. :^)

Cool story, now animate it.

Quest marks.

And quest details too. I know this game takes a lot from Dark Souls but there's one thing Dark Souls isn't, which very confusing and repetitive.

Salt & Sanctuary did everything I wanted HK to do a thousand times better and actually bothered to be entertaining from the outset instead of throwing several hours of straight up boredom at me before it bothered to be even mildly interesting. Fuck this game.

it's cute that you think you know suffering
>radiant markoth

The main character has a Funko Pop head.

You act like anyone gives enough of a shit about you to find your address.

Not him but I once posted my real email on Yea Forums and got hacked.

You must be new here.

>there's also no weight to your 'truth' while anonymous as well
That's completely irrelevant. I made a statement of fact. You accused me of lying.
The topic is lying, and in response to the topic of lying, I reasoned that there is no motivation to lie if you are anonymous.

>presentation
>leaks
What the fuck are you talking about, you retard?

You vastly underestimate how petty and malicious people can be, especially if you insult them.

Very true. If you posted your art here someone will probably dig enough to find your facebook and start posting your face here.

Do you like Either Symphony of the Night, Aria of Sorrow, or Dawn of Sorrow?
If yes to any of the above, then get Bloodstained.
If you never played any of the above, then emulate them instead, and come back to Bloodstained later.

how the fuck was I supposed to know how to get in here

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>>MatPat thinks The Knight is The Pale King
Man that was so stupid.
The Knight was alive before Pale King died, we even get a cinematic where Pale King abandons the Knight as another failure, not to mention the true ending where the Knight reunites the void creatures back into one force and destroys the Radiance.
MatPat actually had to go out of his way to ignore multiple in game cinematics to make his theory seem even remotely believable.

Its optional region, it wasnt finished.

it's an optional area and there are plenty of entrances

Wow, that's a lot of... snow. Big fluffy white snow.

Anyone can be taught to render an image. But not everyone can be taught good sense. Which you clearly lack, by evidence of tour desire to claim authority by posting your own work on fucking Yea Forums of all places.

I might, if he actually made his Facebook easy to find. Posting personally identifiable information is a violation of anonymity, and must be punished.
Of course, posting art isn't personally identifiable, unless his style is so recognizable that people can instantly tell who he is if he posts a drawing. Or if he posts a drawing he's already published elsewhere under a different name, but that'd be pointless, since the original point was to show that HE can draw, not that he can grab someone else's art from Google image search.

See the entrance at the top? After obtaining the ability to swim in acid, you might check back to that area, swim through, and find the top entrance of the hive. Confirming that there is indeed a new area in that suspicious void of the map.

Alternatively, you could have simply noticed the cracked wall of the bottom entrance. It's easy to miss if you're just passing through, but not impossible to see. You could have just noticed it, broke it, and entered.

Personally, I found it by accident, when I tried to shoot the bees in front of the cracked wall, and the blast opened the entrance.

He hasn't even been sufficiently taught to render an image, which makes it extra embarrassing.

>unless his style is so recognizable that people can instantly tell who he is if he posts a drawing
I do in fact have a very distinctive style.

>since the original point was to show that HE can draw, not that he can grab someone else's art from Google image search.
And if I were interested in lying, I would do just that.

You guys can't be serious, right? The game is straightforward. Very much so. It doesn't really become confusing to find your way until you get to the end where you need to farm for a certain item, at which point you're basically just wandering the world. Before then everything is very clear.
They use memorable imagery so you can make connections between new upgrades/items and places you've been before. They'll put cracks in breakable glass/walls or make the ground shake in places you can drop through. Every area looks very distinct for the most part. The map is drawn in a way that makes it very clear where you haven't been yet. Big rule of thumb for these kinds of games is to just go where you haven't been before if you're lost. All of the stores and shit are marked on the map. They even show you the locations of the three guys you need to open up the ending door, much like Super Metroid did with Ridley. If you're taking a break, you can always place a pin down on the map to remind yourself of where you want to go or put a note in your phone so you don't forget.

I really don't know what else you want. The game is very clear. If they did anything more it would become completely linear.

it's called exploring
>bullshit platforming jumps
oh, you're a retard. carry on then

Yeah I found the entrance at the top but had no clue about the bottom entrance. I believe it's because it's right over a bed of spikes so unless you're paying attention you'll miss it every time because you're trying to avoid landing in them.

>but for every 10 minutes of fun there is 50 more minutes of backtracking
This is why I'm not a fan of metroidvanias. Hollow Knight wasn't too bad about this for me personally because the world is very detailed, has lots of npcs and has enough variety for me to get immersed in it.
>+ bullshit platforming jumps
I don't remember that being a thing outside of the gauntlet at the very end of the game.

>I just got the ability to go under acid water.
big if true

If you dont have autism, sure

>Am I missing something?
A brain, presumably. It shouldn't take you 50 minutes to find where you need to go or to get there.

There are a number of bees above the spikes. A subtle clue.
Also, it comes down to just observation. I was already suspicious of that zone on the map. The void and shape just felt like something should be there. So I would have found it eventually. And I watched other people play the game on twitch with the same suspicions. It's not as well hidden as it may seem at first.

HK's level and world design is abysmal, so probably any other game.

If you lose interest in a game just because you have to go to an area more than once, then you have ADHD.
I'm sorry to tell you this.

Do you have a single argument to back up that viewpoint?

Rain World isn't quite a metroidvania, but I still recommend it.

It's all in the numbers.

How so? Every room is unique. There's plenty of combat and platforming challenges, often intertwined. Each area has its own identity and even the enemies that appear there thematically match the environment. There's plenty to explore and plenty of surprises to find in the game.

What's your idea of good level and world design?

That game helped me realize what a meme indie platformers are in today's era of gaming. So that's a reason to play it, until you inevitably realize how fucking stupid it is as a game, and how stupid the entire platformer genre is by extension.

It's not a platformer.

>it's a metroidvania not a platformer
Same thing.

>you can jump, so it's a platformer
"No"

Obviously being able to jump doesn't constitute a platformer, but HK has elements of both.

The world is absolutely bloated. The only reason people complain about the map system (not even on my shortlist of complaints personally) is because so many rooms fail to make themselves truly distinct from one-another visually. I also find the rewards for exploring very meager. Find a health upgrade? Congrats, that's 1/4th of one. Find a grub? Congrats, that's 1/46th of one and the actual meaningful rewards are locked behind a few dozen.

>game literally has floating platforms all over the levels you explore
>it's not a platformer though
Sometimes I don't think you people actually play video games