Playing mgs for the first time. I am having a great time...

it's because the game shits the bed after the first 2 acts and there's way too many cutscenes

Kids who got gifted this game expected a gears of war clone. Instead we got what we kojifags wanted, all 3 of us

>Besides the story
You understand how huge of a component that is to MGS, right?

You cannot interrogate enemies and threaten them to get info about the map you currently are and ammo and stuff.

>makes a thread before finishing chapter 2

You can still threaten them for ammo, can't you?

Either way you can pat them down for lots of items, and SOP scan them to see the positions of their allies.

>You can still threaten them for ammo, can't you?
Im trying but I can't

Part of what I love about MGS4 is the sheer amount of options you have and small details put into the game.

>CQC grab a guard
>Can hold him in standing or crouched position
>Can slit his throat
>Can slam him to the ground
>Can choke him into unconsciousness
>Can keep choking him until he actually dies
>Can do that move to get on top of them while choking
>Can inject him with the SOP scanning plug to find the location of his buddies
>Can inject him with the nanomachine suppressing syringe to cause his repressed emotions to take over
>If the soldier doesn't have nanomachines the syringe causes them to foam at the mouth and pass out
>Most rebels don't have nanomachines, but the mercenaries working among them still do
>Holding up a guard makes them drop their gun which you can pick up
>Guards will pull out their pistols if you take their main gun and they get away somehow
>Can pat down a held up guard to get items
>Final prompt lets you crush their balls to knock them out
>Trying that move on the female FROG soldiers makes them call you a perv and hit you with a surprise kick

Oh, well at least the pat down still exists. I guess emotion-suppressed SOP soldiers aren't afraid of threats.

Forgot being able to shoot from CQC and use guards as human shields.

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Yea Forums only ever disliked it because of a snow ball effect of trying to out contrarian each other until the consensuses was that mgs4 was the worst game ever to exist

Young people were tricked into taking MGS seriously and by the time 4 had come out their critical thinking had evolved to the point where they could see it for the tom clancy themed soap opera it's always been.
Also it has too many gameplay interruptions with all the cutscenes.
I like the game, I think that it's mechanically the best MGS along with MGSV.

It has the most Kino ending boss fight of all time but the later acts fall apart in the gameplay department, as in there is barely any. It also badly explains some things that did not need explaining, retcons major shit for cheap and forced fanservice and 1 character in particular gets completely ruined in what is the most embarrassingly forced drama i have seen. Overall it's still good though and the last MGS game made.

Also they gave my girl a pivotal role in the story like she deserved and she looks and sounds extremely charming in that game.

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LIQUIIIIIIIID

The game does not tell you a lot of things, like the special move that disarms enemies when you do a CQC move while holding a rifle.

It had some great gameplay concepts early on, but like , the whole thing falls apart too soon. The excessive cutscenes don't help. Granted you can skip them, but you're basically skipping 50% of the game at that point.

I think I only learned half this shit through playing MGO.

my frustration with 4 comes from it simultaneously having the best and the least gameplay

Well being worse than 3 in every conceivable way had a little to do with it. Just a little.
>should we make the menu system for camo a little more intuitive or remove it from the game entire and stick in on rails
Every decision made was how to we dumb it down, not make it better.
Contrast MGS2 and MGS3, where ideas were fleshed out and made better instead of durp durped.

I feel that.

People bitched fucking constantly about "having to open the camo menu every 5 seconds" because they were too retarded to just pick one good outfit and stick with it for a few areas. They had to update it every time it fell 5%.

Octocamo is literally a perfect upgrade to it. Auto-change, preset colors and patterns, AND the ability to save and select any automatic pattern you find throughout the game. You're a fucking retard for complaining about it.

>the upgrade to player choice and game balance is to make it automatic and over powered
Shit dog, can you make the mgs4 shoot the bad guys for me too!?

What player choice did they remove, exactly? Manual camo selection still exists.

It still has the best gameplay in the series. The problem for people is that you're put in control too little. I love MGS4, it was amazing when I first went through it in 2014. Still doesn't stack up to the first three games, but it's directly below them

OctoCamo is the best idea from MGS4. Complain about underused mechanics or maps but changing the stupid camo menu thing is perfect.

The real issue with MGS4 is a lack of editing. 40% of content is already there but missed by the player unless they go out of their way, or could've been added with little effort (reusing maps)

Ffs did you know that entering and exiting the rebels camp in act 1 changes the entire zone? Why did they go out of their way to make that when almost no one saw it? Use your fucking assets.

Also cut Naomi bullshit

Keep Naomi, cut Sunny.

Dude wft. Octo camo is just a resumed way to "open the menu, change the outfit, close the menu" every damn minute. And ehy the hell are you complaining? You can set a manual config for it, you dingus

Shooting is part of the gameplay. You have to get good at it. Know when and how to shoot.

Camo changing is the most braindead immersion breaking task. All it tests and entails are your pause menu navigation skills. OctoCamo is just a far better way to make it work since you have an actual drawback (wait a few seconds between each new camo). You can even get the camo to load faster by crawling slower.

mgo2 was fun

Nothing wrong with Sunny except how she rewrote a big ass program from scratch. Naomi was just weirdly written all around.

I loved MGO2 and played it from opening day until closing day. I miss the shit out of it but I don't think I could play it today. The massive desync and the ridiculous amount of i-frames after every hit sucked so much.

There really aren't any. The only issues with the gameplay is the boring turret section in act 3 (derived from MGS3) and a pointless section in Shadow Moses. The Shadow Moses section is redeemed by being sandwiched between some great boss fights, one of which I would go so far as to say is one of the best in the series.

MGS4 is Kojima's first good game. He managed to close the mess of a story properly and it actually has decent gameplay (all 3 hours of it).

MGO2 was unironically the greatest online of last gen, with its only flaws being bad netcode

MGS3 literally fucking ruined the gameplay of the series you absolute toddler. Every single new concept introduced into MGS3 failed miserably and is a detriment to the game save for maybe expendable suppressors. Octocamo was the best thing they could have done to fix that stupid mess.

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The ending would have been way more interesting without her Mary Sue miracle fix.

>Things are going to get crazy and people are going to fight, but they're finally free
>Oh wait nevermind Sunny magically fixed everything in a way that will never be explained despite the rest of the game going to extreme lengths to explain things that didn't need it in the first place
>And now Big Boss is here

While MGS1 and 3 are well overrated, MGS2 is a fucking masterpiece.

This is bait.

If you spam camo changes for incrementally better percentages your punishment is the menuing itself. If anything the system could be made more apparent to idiots like you by sticking an in game cooldown on changing.
You're complaining about yellow devil being a shit boss as you spam select. Pausing every three feet in not the intention of the mechanic.

MGO2 was the worst online game i have ever payed with by far the worst community. Get this hipster rose tinted glasses out of here.

I mean they never really stated everything was fine thanks to her, but at least that she kept what was needed for society to sustain itself despite destroying the much more advanced GW control system.

Mad because bad.

He's right though. It pretty much perfected the fast-paced arcade-like stealth game.

Fuck. Hideo. Kojima.
youtube.com/watch?v=mf_MGR2ZLe4
Try to refute a single point

I love all 3 of them, but come on, MGS2 is easily the most overrated. I say that as someone who thinks it's an all-time classic great game. The dick sucking it gets is on a whole other level from the rest of the series.

Literally everything about 3 is an improvement over 2 and any opinion otherwise is delusion.
Now if you come back and hit me with something along the line of 'everything 2 did to 1 was fucking terrible to begin with' then we can have a conversation but any other opinion's so fucking divorced from reality I'm just ignoring your posts.
2 plays like ass compared to 3. Total ass.

>lel there is snow ill change my outfit to a white one im so smart xd :v

>If you spam camo changes for incrementally better percentages your punishment is the menuing itself
That's not game design at all. Punishment should come ingame. OctoCamo delays make you more likely to get spotted during the texture switch delay, integrating it to the game.

The optimal way of using MGS3 camo is still to switch every single time. That's what works the best, for the cost of added menuing. You're actually rewarded for braindead pausing.
They noticed it and make it possible to use stripped at all times, which is basically 70+% everywhere. OctoCamo without delay.

The gameplay was amazing, the guns were especially great. Problem is you have at best 6 hours of gameplay and 10 hours of boring, contrived cutscenes. Controlling rex was the highlight of the game and it lasted all of 10 minutes.

I dislike MGS2's gameplay, at least once you get on the Big Shell.
MGS2's story is top notch though. The MGS saga never touched this level of genius before or after.

It's underrated if anything, hardly anyone talks about just how great it is purely in level design and mechanical terms. I have more fun just playing the VR missions than replaying MGS3.

>OctoCamo delays make you more likely to get spotted during the texture switch delay,

Yeah I hate the way the game locks you in place any time you step onto a differently textured piece of ground. If it would just let me keep moving out of the line of sight of the guards, that would be one thing, but it fucking takes control away from the player and forces us to get spotted while it changes textures.

Oh wait, no it doesn't and you're retarded.

anyone else waste a ridiculous number of hours testing every conceivable surface for unique camo patterns?

Reading comprehension?
If you step on another texture, either you stop moving for your OctoCamo to adapt and keep high camo index or you keep moving because you need to get away fast from something despite the lower camo index making you likely to get spotted.

It's a choice with pros and cons. Aka good game design

I downloaded a save file once that had a jet black, and I meant fucking void in space and time kind of black pattern saved, and I spent so much time trying to find it on a legit save but I never could anywhere.

>Besides story, what the hell is wrong with this game?
Literally MGSV

I don't have conversations with newfag toddlers.

>menu juggling garbage
>dumbed down AI
>casual difficulty
>improvements

I wanted, and saved every texture until I realized the menu is limited and can't dave them all

This retard wouldn't know what game design mean if it crawled up his spacious ass and died

i remember that, it was glass camo. you could grab it by laying on the windshield of a car.

I've already said I think the camo system needed an in game timed cooldown to illustrate that you're supposed to be picking something situationally. Make a choice for what part of the immediate vicinity you think you need to prioritize for and go from there.
>the punishment should be in game
There's a couple things that need touching up in 3's injury system too, like a tier system for what you're capable of doing in combat (eg quickly ripping out a tranq dart) or things that require you to be out of alert phase (like setting a broken bone).

It's literally nothing like V

You know what? Forget about 'game design', fuck buzzwords. "This is good, while menu juggling is not by comparison" is more clear.

No, MGSV has shit level and encounter design (or rather lack thereof) as well.

>Make a choice for what part of the immediate vicinity you think you need to prioritize for and go from there.
That'd work a lot better.
MGSV did it well with the camo being chosen before mission or having to order one. But no index made it harder to feel its effect.

I was talking about the MGS3 fanboy. I see now that i fucked up my post and it can be interpreted as the opposite.

>>dumbed down AI
>>casual difficulty
The AI is just as dumb as 2 but now they can handle having more than 1 guard rendered on screen without the ps2 catching fire.
There's all of five situations in 2 where the solution is cartwheeling the guy and running away.

Cutscenes literally longer than the total gameplay of the game, and it's not particularly interesting stuff.

Fuck why didn't I ever try that

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>kojima gets the piss taken out of him in both nipland and the us for that hallway in mgs2
>tones down the cutscene ration in 3
>somehow just forgets for 4

Anyone else getting a ton of recommended videos on Youtube for MGS4? I'm not complaining since they're all pretty decent but seeing it there a bunch and now on here is weird

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I always thought 1 and 3 had the best stories. Not for any special reasons, just because they're good simple espionage stories with relatively minimal retarded shit.

The AI in 3 is a massive downgrade from 2, even the game's mechanics make it less effective. Difficultly wise it's not even a contest, literally the most dumbed down game in the series, which is why so many normalfags like it. You can literally run and gun through the game on the hardest difficulty thanks to it's retarded health and hit stun mechanics. Oh did i say gun? I meant slam, because you can literally run up to every guard and face slam it while on high alert in the highest difficulty while parrying bullets with your forehead. I don't expect some mong defending menu juggling to be aware of even basic mechanics in both games.

God, i had forgotten just how much i loathe MGS3 normies. I like the game, it's still good, but these people that not only gloss over it's many flaws but paint them as virtues make me seethe.

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I wish. Literally the only good MGS4 videos I've ever seen are ChipCheezum's LP of it, and the NANOMACHINES!? supercut.

3 has too much dumb shit going on to be a good simple story.
1 is simple good at least.
2 is convoluted greatness.
3 is simple dumb mediocre.
4 is convoluted dumb good

octacamo might be the only thing that is objectively good about 4

What's so bad about 3's story?

>Soviets invent jet-tank to extend reach of nukes in a time before nuclear ICBMs really worked
>Crazy colonel steals the project
>The Boss's insertion ruse goes south when said colonel launches a nuke
>Plans change and now we gotta fix everything
>Everyone is triple double quadruple crossing each other

I love that scene when Snake is getting tortured with Boss, Eva, and Ocelot in the room. Literally everyone in that room is a spy except for Volgin.

No, the gameplay in general is the best in the series, there's just not nearly enough of it. It's a massive waste and pretty tragic, it would be so easy to pad it up. That's not the only waste, there's all these special characters for MGO that they could have used for single player content like RE does that are now just lost to the ether.

>for me its MGS5
>kojima ended it perfectly, metal gear 1 and 2 are aesthetic and should be left untouched by fox engine
>konami probably cut the game short because of budget reasons but its ok with me, in his vision kojima just wanted to perfect the MGS gameplay, he already told enough of the MGS story, and peacewalker best frames big boss downfall
>MGS4? Yeah its alright bro, but MGS5 is perfected MGS4 gameplay
>johnny fart jokes and the wedding scene? Kojima was just having fun, he already made his money from fans and he can do what he wants

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There are way too many inconsistencies from the start. Why even send Snake if you wanted him to fail and The Boss to defect? Why give Volgin 2 nukes? 1 would be enough and avoid what forced The Boss to die.

I also think The Boss was handled really badly. In the end she's a USA dog. Peace Walker is where she actually became a character despite this game's flaws, the final scene at least finally gave The Boss a bit of depth.

I thought Snake's mission was more cover for the Boss's defection. She handed Volgin a CIA agent and threw him off a bridge herself, acquiring Sokolov in the process.

SNAAAKE

the story is absolutely fucking retarded, however its retarded in a way that you can kind of embrace and enjoy if you are willing to. kind of like the escape from movies

>trying to be a clever armchair analyst about a MGS story
Woah nigger, I wouldn't try to take that shortcut to perceived cleverness, because literally none of the MGS games survive that type of analysis.

I got it in the England stage, right after the opening scene go to one of the closed shops and press up on the glass door.

I mean yeah most of the games are full of inconsistencies that break the story if you stop and think about it. But at least the other MGS had some kind of theme and character arc to make up for it.

What makes MGS3 work is how it feels like a journey going through the jungle and mountains. But in terms of story it's stale.

>England

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Yurop = England

MGS3 works as a story because it's basically just Apocalypse Now but it's about a student taking the physical and mental journey of facing their teacher and learning to deal with their betrayal, with the "MGS" universe as background dressing instead of the plot working as some sort of lore plot dump clusterfuck. That's why it's one of the better stories because it's one of the least polluted and messily told plots.

One of my favorite things about MGS3 is that there isn't actually a Metal Gear. Peace Walker could learn or thing or two from 3.

But there isn't anything too atrocious going on. They tell Snake he should kill The Boss, he does it, she was actually undercover, the end. Not so much character arc there, in the end it's mostly about the philosopher's legacy and other stuff. Same mess as the other games, but at least simplified by being the first chrononogically.

At least the mess in the others ended up making for some interesting themes, mostly in MGS2

>Literally everything about 3 is an improvement over 2
Not really. The level design is more open and easy to exploit, guards are less coordinated and move much slower, and the camo system combined with both of these means the player is pretty much always overpowered. The only time the game tries to impose any tension is in the post-torture Groznyj Grad escape. MGS3 does a good job delivering lots of toys to fuck around with, and the attention to detail makes it fun to experiment, but it was mostly a lateral movement. I wouldn't call it an improvement at all.

Video maker was an asshole, but I agreed with most of his points.

Tldr?

BROTHERRRR

Then there's fucking V, that despite being like 30 years before MGS/MGS2 has a skyscraper Metal Gear that can fly, dive, shoot nukes and pretty much survive Armageddon. Thinking about it now, was Sahalantropas(sp) ever said to be a Metal Gear? Or just another machine that was superior to MG-Rex/Ray in absolutely every way?

Nowhere near as good as what came before it, blatant fan service, kojima finally went completely too far with the kinds of things that were just Easter eggs and jokes in the the previous games, and on top of everything he gave Snake a gay fucking mustache and made him old. That's almost as bad as changing his iconic voice to sound completely different.

Pretty sure it was called Metal Gear by name.

Don't forget Peace Walker had that literal anti-gravity UFO thing, and the Peace Walker robot itself could fucking transform and run around like a god damn Gundam.

>gay fucking mustache
I've always found it hilarious how butt-hurt people were over Snake having a mustache. I always knew you were a bunch of teenage girls.
>made him old
This was a plot point established in MGS2. I don't see the issue with it, either.

i started off w/ a fourth one (technically w/ metal gear on nes, but it doesn't count) and even i felt the weight of expository drivel.
Tho some set pieces were highly entertaining, like blonde cyborg lassoing metal cows to death with a breakdance.
I love it in such moments as a grindhouse w/ AAA budget.
Gameplay is fine, too, full of neat gimmicks like octo-suit and back pain.

Still fucking mad we couldn't salvage and use ZEKE in V

Fuck ZEKE, we didn't even get Battle Gear. V was an absolute shit show.

But you got D-Walker. :^]

MGS4 is fantastic it's just contrarianis. 4 does have negatives, of course. It could be better. But Kojima managed to finish the series off here in a very satisfying way and give good conclusions to everyone's story. It really is an epic game.

I never found a use for it either. Walker Gears seem like the most useless piece of military hardware imaginable.

i then completed mgs 3 on vita and it was full of exposition drivel, but i enjoyed it more as a combination of rambo and james bond; the End (name) boss fight was the best sniper cat-mouse game ever.
Tried second one and turned off instantly the moment that russian girl started presenting her armpit bushes. It was a bit too much bullshit even for me

The Walker Gear is actually hilarious because it can move at Sonic the Hedgehog speeds. It's pretty broken if you know how to use it.
youtube.com/watch?v=BjjHMIYnm2Q