So why do some fans think it's vastly inferior to previous entries...

That too
What were they thinking

>So why do some fans think it's vastly inferior to previous entries?
i dont think ive heard anyone say that

Even though STR is the worst of the three, you can still get by.

The game is badly balanced. Demons don't have unique stat distribution, instead all the demons fall under templates. The game is just lazy and you can see all of the problems corrected in IVA

I love its setting, story and characters but mechanics were busted. Smirk was not fun, partner was not fun. Bosses were largely not fun, especially when compared to Apocalypse. But Apocalypse has its own share of problems.
That's why I prefer Nocturne. It doesn't fail anywhere.

There are NPCs all over the place you can talk to and everyone gets new dialogue after every event. The hell are you talking about?

>Faggot attacks and forces a smirk
>Die before I can even debuff the mother fucker

>nocturne doesnt fail anywhere

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OLD GAME GOOD
NEW GAME BAD

>no VIT or END modifiers meaning, attacks use flat damage which bosses die in 2-3 rounds of weakness spam or Gun spam as a result
>this combined with stats "capping" at 200 means you can endlessly dump points into Gun/magic becoming massively OP in seconds
>STR is buggedand doesn't work
>no defence from armor, just boosts HP instead, helmets and legs give neglegible stat boosts so only the torso and accessory really matter
>demons have 3 stat spreads: magic, strength, and shit. Phys skills use MP, and all the strength demons have the smallest MP pools. Free skill inheritance makes every phys/magic demon feel the same
>small amount of dungeons, all of them suck
>story is mediocre, Jon and Walt don't see the point behind the different worlds
>randomly chosen retarded AI partner
>money grinding is extremely slow even with fundraiser, most likely to jew you into buying the DLC
That being said it's still better than the SNES games but Nocturne, SJ, and Final are all better. At least Bobo is cute.

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I like Nocturne but it has massive problems too.

>#1 best game in the series
Even if you fix all those problems, you are still left with a game with terrible gameplay, fucked up story and flat, uninteresting characters.

The only problem I really remember having was having Partners that would do absolutely stupid shit.

On top of that, the devs chose what skills the partners had, and intentionally gave them skills that fucked you over. Why does Walt with Agi team with you against the Minotaur? Also Isabeau, if I remember right, is placed on your team in a sidequest where she absolutely fucks over your party relatively early on in Tokyo.

I actually think the first half was incredible cool. I didn't knew anything about the game or its story before I started playing it, so you can imagine my surprise the first time you find a fucking elevator and go from a medieval samurai setting to a post-apocalyptic Tokyo.
I'm only sad they never really went anywhere with it. No character really questions the situation or cares about it. They just accept that there are people with modern technology that they themselves admire as rare relics and actually have full knowledge about how that stuff works and what it is, yet never really question the situation they found themselves in.

Honestly my only big gripe is Naraku. it feels like you need to play perfectly for the first few hours and it's really tedious. Didn't get a preemptive strike? Get fucked up. Negotiation fell through? get fucked up. Stupid AI chose the wrong attach? get fucked up. Then you beat Medusa and all of the tension deflates as the game swings from heavily punishing to fucking nothing.

but its all they ever talk about once you get down there

the beginning is pretty rough. it gets stupidly easy post naraku though

you're just repeating what he already said
>Then you beat Medusa and all of the tension deflates as the game swings from heavily punishing to fucking nothing.

Wow user, i"m totally going to go out of my way to go into some fucking 1x1 room and talk to a portraitless sprite.
NPC's are shit in IV

Why even play jrpgs if you hate talking to NPC's?

How is that different from the spirits in Nocturne?

Characters are shit, especially the law and chaos heroes.
New art is shit.
Smirk is half-baked.
No real unique demons, all of them have the same skills at the end of the game.
Neutral requirements are ridiculous.
Only real positives of the game are the music and the fact that they included a lot of demons that only appeared in a game or two before.

I absolutely love it, it was the game that introduced me to the series but after playing all the others I can say that it's pretty flawed.
>quest system feels restrictive since you can only do one and maybe two at a time if the other one is a collection quest
>for those who aren't familiar with tokyo, the map might be a clusterfuck
>smirk is unbeatable and overpowered
>high health low mp demons are fucked since physical skills go off of MP instead of HP
>demon art might be jarring since it ranges from SMTII in the 90s to IV's guest artwork
>neutral is extremely hard to get once you're off balance and the last stretch with all the challenge quests feels a bit like padding
>plot is at its strongest in the beginning and in the lead up towards tokyo but it falls apart when you get to the part where Walter fucks off
But despite all of the above, I still love the game and I don't think it's inferior to Nocture or the SNES games.
I think Strange Journey is better in the story department and it lacks the expressive demon models of Nocturne but it makes up for it by just having a shit ton of demons.

Apocalypse is the best gameplay-wise since it fixes so much that was wrong with IV but it lost the atmosphere and the story/dialogue isn't as good as IV in my opinion.

But I do, I'm saying that there is little effort on building the NPC's; read my original post.

I'm not comparing this to game from the 2000's

Yeah, but it's not like the story really does anything with it. Probably because the characters were rather shallow, but you definitely don't get the feeling like they are seriously interested in trying to figure out what the fuck is happening.
They mostly accept whatever mission anyone gives them, without asking too much questions.

Map is not confusing ? Jeez man. How do you do it ?

Fuck you guys I just got the game and you guys are making me reconsider playing it

>tfw SMT will continue to be exclusive to gimped tendie handhelds and the switch
>playstation will only get gay ass persona titles and dancing games from now on
>we'll never see SMT like in the PS2 golden era again

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>Spam AoE magic to win
>Buffs are useless.
>Smirk system is retarded.
>Characters are boring.
>Map is fucking stupid.
>Literally no way to avoid random encounters except estoma sword which is fucking awful so you're in a random battle every 3 steps especially on the world map.
>Combat is visually boring and unappealing, gets old extremely quickly.
>Surprise attacks have an extremely high chance to just end you on the spot.
I like the setting but it's probably one of the worst JRPGs I've played, and I've played a fuckload of them.

Problems? Always thought that it's well-rounded. No glaring issues. Other games have "higher highs" and "lower lows".
But I haven't even tried to do TDE + spammed Estoma like a madman just to lower encounter ratio so maybe I never had a time to notice them.

Call me a Nocturnebabby if you want but it's legitimately the only good SMT mainline game so far. Fight me.

Play it for Isabeau

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Strange journey

But SMTV demons will look a 100x better than Nocturne or Persona 5 models snoyboy-kun.

Strange Journey Redux

World map is terrible. Story is poor. Characters are poor. Demon design is just terrible. Demon stat and skill spreads are poorly done. Smirk system is trash.

Nah, there's a lot of glaring flaws with the gameplay of Nocturne. It's obviously the first press turn game so it not going to be perfect but no reason to excuse them.

the reasons are shit
the reps are shit
the story mostly revolves around the shitty reps, so its shit
luck is a completely useless stat. not even kinda bad tier like smt iv's str, it just does nothing helpful. it lowers ambushes marginally and does nothing in combat
they didnt think through the magatama system so you could easily gimp yourself if you're not careful (ie overriding focus on a phys build)

theres lots more. it isn't close to perfect. it's not a bad game but it's not spotless like you're saying

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The game was a massive downgrade from the original proposal and concept art due to a lack of budget and an inexperienced team working on it. Not a bad game, but it never lives up to.its potential.
Nocturne is my personal favorite video game and even I wouldn't call it close to perfect.

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It's still good. Just not as good as most of the rest of mainline.

>But SMTV demons will look a 100x better than Nocturne or Persona 5 models snoyboy-kun.
P5 is a ps4 game, how would it look better on the switch. And SMTV isn't going to make all of them from scratch, they're going to either reuse the ones from P5 or Dx2 (which don't look as good as the P5 models but probably fit the smt art style better)

every smt has its ups and downs. I wouldn't say IV is any more flawed than the other games

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reminder that apo's mc was supposed to be a dad in his 20s but
>muh teenage boy protag

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>Isabeau
That was Nozomi on the Asura sidequest where everything she does is blocked by Asura and makes him go into smirk. Actually, Nozomi is dead weight in all of the sidequests that make her your partner.

That would have been terrible, thank God they didn't go for it.

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They're fucking delusional. I-II are terribly dated snoozefests. SJ vastly overstays its welcome with overly convoluted dungeons and terrible battle system. Nocturne is babby's first SMT so they all praise it no matter what.

That's wrong, P5 is a PS3 game first and was just ported to PS4.
The Switch is a more powerful system than PS3 so it'll obviously look better and it doesn't make sense for V to have models that look worse than P5 when it started development a few years after that game released.
They will most likely make new models and touch up a few models from P5 or Dx2 so they fit into V.

>dated
Games don't age. You don't actually like video games. Go back.

P5R is PS4 exclusive and they're improving the graphics

>overly convoluted dungeons
They aren't that complex.
>terrible battle system
It's just traditional turn based. Not bad at all.

>P5 is a ps4 game
No it's not, it's a ps3 game that was ported to the ps4. The Switch is more powerful than a ps3, so saying the models won't look as good on the Switch is bullshit

because Nocturne babies never played SMT I and II. Probably never left Naraku

Apocalypse is better

I just doubt they will look better, the SMT team has little experience with 3d games (inb4 nocturne, more nocturne devs went to the persona team than the smt team, so that's irrelevant), all they have is TMS which despite being on similar level hardware didn't look as good as p5 in my opinion.

if they hadn't previously promised to release it on ps3 they wouldn't have released a shittier version of the game for that system at all. it's a ps4 game that got a worse ps3 release

of course it won't look better. it's going to look the same

I agree, even though IV is still good.

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Since when were we talking about P5R? You shouldn't be moving goalposts but I'll indulge.
>P5R is PS4 exclusive and they're improving the graphics
Even if they're remastering this game, chances are they won't be updating demon models within 1 year of release. If P4 the Golden is anything to go by they'll only make the new stuff look good.

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The teaser looked promising, and it defenitely looked better than Persona 5. Hopefully the final product will look just as good. Also, wasn't TMS done by a different team?

Is this real and if so, how do they even work together?

It's not just a matter of hardware, it's a matter of experience, the persona team was working on 3d games since p3, the smt team has been stuck in handheld hell for over a decade. Like look at pic related, they have the capability to handle similar models yet the p5 model looks better

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user, they look completely different because if the hardware and style. The Persona one look more cartoonish then the Dx2 one

>if
I meant "of"

Didnt the SMT team work on TMS? That game looked fine visually. From the two trailers we've seen on V it looks good too.

A lot of brainlet's first smt was nocturne in the ps2, don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying iv is better than nocturne Strange Journey is but those brainlets never moved and just parrot it in smt threads. Something about the edgy demi-fiend suckers them in like Sonic to autists