How do we fix JRPGs?

>complex and fascinating constructed world
WHEEEEEEEEEZE

t. brainlet

Accurate

Forgot pic

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they don't need fixing. especially by westaboos who want games to be "cinematic experiences."

I liked Persona 5.

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Lately I've been having a pleasure or displeasure, not entirely sure, of playing a bunch of jRPGs out of sheer desperation seeing as modern wRPGs somehow manage to be even worse than their japanese counterparts and sadly this is true. There are some outliers like SMT but even those are meh in everything that isn't aesthetics.
I really don't think these games aren as irredeemable as some people make them out to be, but honestly they pale in comparison to even the mediocre western RPGs of the golden era.

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soul vs souless

>wrpgs are about dialogue with interesting choices

>jrpgs are about sex

Yeah sure. Can anyone name a popular recent wrpg without sex in it? I dont mean 'no sexual references', mind you. I mean, simply, "characters do not have sex during gameplay".

Yeah fallout 4 is the height of RPGs

It was so painfully obvious in Persona, they didnt eve try to hide it.

soul vs soulless

i know, right? if only the dialogue options were as amazing as the ones in wrpgs.

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P3 was better

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Nobody buys a game blindly

You buy it because you expect that sort of fanservice. What's the issue really?

>still using these images when you have been BTFO repeatedly

Which one of these is supposed to be the mocking, ironic collation?

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Yeah you're clearly over 30, because I grew up experiencing those worse wrpgs you speak of and it's why I like jrpgs far more.

>mom I made this thread again
Christ dude do you do anything else in your free time?

>basic b**** dungeon with no exploration or dungeon mechanics
>soul
okay, buddy boy.

remove desperate betamales. they ruin everything for people that aren't obsessed with sex.

Skyrim

because they don't want to make branching paths but know people like to self-insert

just this

>recent
>8 years old

1. No longer pander to Otaku.
2. stop over designing characters.
3.drop the sci fi dressings or make an actual sci fi RPG.
4. focus on game play.
5. new game plus is standard.

>hurr I hate anime
Go read a book

its not even just about sex.
many JRPGs have become social sims.

where did i say i hate anime?

Do you think every jrpg is fire emblem and persona?

>that fucking sameface
lmao

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>social sims
Yet half the complaints from wrpg fans in this thread are that jrpg diologue options arent deep enough

Someone post the gameplay to the WRPG he's wanking off.
>no longer pander to otaku
But user, why shouldn't they pander to the audience who will buy their games?

fixed

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When you said that pandering and outlandish designs are a bad thing.

and Xenoblade
and FF15(its just you and YOUR bros on a road trip)

cringe and bluepilled

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Indeed, we all know that true rpgs, such as the western fare, have NO social interaction whatsoever. Every character is an empty shell with generic dialogue prompts, and there might as well be no inter-character interactions whatsoever. This, after all, is the wrpgs strength, its lack of characters and dialogue.

I like all kinds, you bitch. Baldur's gate, lunar, Gothic, xcx, fallout, BoF, fft, it's all fun for different reasons.

yes pandering to faggots is bad.
outlandish designs like the shit from FFX onward is what im talking about. there is detail and than there is adding endless shit on to the designs just because.
they have always had details on their characters and that is fine. than they went way overboard with it. they became deviantart tier

>he has serious phyloshopical thoughts over video games
lmao

By making all MC characters to look at myself while keeping the qt waifus the same.

Western RPGs from the last decade:
> *crickets*
JRPGs from the last decade:
> too many to count
Sorry, we have a winner.

"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe." -Lex Luthor

Lex Luthor is a fucking idiot

BG2 is my favorite game of all time but i would still say JRPGs >> WRPGs since the most wrpgs just downright suck but at least i can enjoy the fanservice and visual novel parts of a jrpg even if it flatout sucks in terms of gameplay.
But CRPGs > JRPGs but not many crpgs in general.

>he only cares about the faces
>fuck the plot/setting amarite
>t. waifufag

FFX is a fantastic game though

>play baby eletronic toy that does beeps and bloops
>think he's closer to illumination
L
M
A
O
At least JRPGs understand the medium, come back once you're 18+ and realise you're a baby who plays his tiny baby toy on his screen and think he's smart.
You're a fucking retard if you think video games are anything above that.

It also has some great designs so I don't know what his problem is

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>phyloshopical
kill yourself moron instead of posting stupid shit

There were a lot western rpgs in this decade, it's basically a renaissance.

the difference is,
in WRPGs interactions with every NPC are not about how super cool you(the player) are and try making you feel like you are friends with that NPC.

the typical modern JRPG dialog
>oh suigui oni-chan~
>you are super strong!
>I I dont like you b baka

the typical modern WRPG dialog

Such as brilliant masterpieces like Mass effect Andromeda?

The only two with sameface are Fuuka and female MC

>this meme again
Yeah if you count a bunch of mediocre, derivative works and Divinity 2 as a “renaissance”

every single one of them has been trash. that's not a renaissance.

Fuck off furfag

Off topic but I desperately want them to try and make a Mass Effect 4. ME3 was a mess and Andromeda was a travesty but ME is such a great series

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That’s right, modern WRPGs have no dialogue worth remembering

BEST BAIT EVER

it's impressive how these retards don't even know what a rpg/jrpg is

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more cunny

What wrpgs are we even talking about here? Everything in that decade is mostly trash. Bethesda is considered the pinnacle of WRPGS these days. Are we talking about games like baldur's gate, and PT?

West dominated RTS classics. AoE, Wc, Sc, AoM, HoMM.. Yet you guys always want to fight about the one genre Japan clearly has had dominance in for decades.

He is talking about designs though, even if you liked them, you gotta admit that Tidus, Lulu, Seymour, those two summoners that you talk from time to time are nonsensical and/or dont follow any consistency with the world around it. And lets not even talk about X-2

It was never good
I wanna fuck a female turian though

Tidus is supposed to be out of place though that's the entire point of his character.

ME1 is straight unplayable garbage. It's funny how terribly all these types of wrpgs have aged. Meanwhile classic jrpgs are still timeless.

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>I desperetely want them to try and rape Mass Effect even further than they already did, specially after the trainwreck that was Anthem

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tldr nerd

IMO

>Top Tier
Underrail. ToME, Age of Decadence, Grimrock 1/2

>Great Tier
Divinity: OS 1, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, ATOM RPG

>Good Tier
Pillars of Eternity 1, Divinity: OS 2, Outward, Vaporum, Xulima

>Mediocre Tier
Wasteland 2, Might and Magic X, Tyranny

>Shit Tier
Underworld Ascendant, Bard's Tale 4, Tides of Numenera

it is great.
Tidus looks like shit. half of the Aeons look like shit. the NPCs costumes are overdesigned. lines/layers/loops/horns/spikes/goggles/waves/tattoos on every single thing

key word is some. it gets worse from there. just look at how the designs in disgeae changed. they went from outlandish to just having shit slapped all over them. its like a fucking micheal bay transformers design now.

>nonsensical and/or dont follow any consistency with the world around it.

Yeah this makes no sense. Tidus is from a completely different time and place, Lulu is literally just wearing a dress so I'm not sure how that's nonsensical or doesn't follow consistency, and Seymour looks just like the Guadosalam except he's nobility.

Dude this is objectively false. I was playing ME1 again the other day and having a blast. It holds up just fine

>talks about games not aging well
>while defending jrpgs, a genre that has never progressed

Has Japan made anything that rivals Gothic 2: NotR?

What's the Wizardry clone on the right called?

shit, i forgot pillars 2 in the mediocre tier

Because what you don't talk about is how irredeemably shitty WRPG gameplay is. I'd take RPGMaker over The Witcher 3's Batman Arkham combat complete with Detective Vision quest design any fucking day of the week. When's the last time a really good traditional WRPG came out, fucking Gothic II?

It looks terrible, plays terrible, but the dialogue is genuinely pretty good.

Did anthem already come out? i didn't even notice

>Let the player choose EVERY dialogue option of your character
>allow killing of NPCs and stealing from them
>allow for skills and mechanics outside of fighting like before mentioned stealing, also health, persuasion, setting traps etc. Those have to be integrated with the other aspects not a completely seperate mechanic.
>No immersion breaking shit, like a chest popping of every enemy, characters not being able to use abilities they can during fighting in cutscenes, fights on a seperate arena or monsters two meters from a city gate.

Pretty much these. The anime aesthetics, genre cliches are fine. Those are what make them stand out and unique. I just want the game to be an actual game not just a movie with a game attached to it.

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You're trying to make fun of the simplistic choice but you've only shown that even in this basic yes/no answer, you require a speech skill check to give one of the answers, thereby showing the deeper and more relevant speech system in this WRPG.

The only wrpg I've enjoyed was Arcanum desu

Risen

(you)

>>No immersion breaking shit
pffffft

No one cares about how Tidus dresses, only that he is talking nonsense about Zanarkand. Lulu's dress has actually more than 40 belts inside it, Seymour's overall design is kinda exxagerated with the hair, but I concede that his clothes are not weird to the place he lives in.

This just shows I'm right, and you have no argument to counter me.

You forgot expeditions series, it's pretty good.

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And you can't find that in any modern WRPG, they have shit gameplay to boot, and even the rpg mechanics fall in quality except for based cdpr.

Kaiba, Lain, Angel's Egg, Casshern Sins, Tatami Galax, Belladonna and Satoshi Kon movies are anime but aren't pandering and generic.

i would let yukiko suffocate me with her succulent ass cheeks. im so lonely god help me

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Ah so you are a pretentious anime fan then

I haven't played them yet, but i'm interested

Twink in the wild?

>yes/no option becomes the peak of RPG dialogue if you put a speech check in front of it

More dates

No, I just value anime for its strengths, not its weaknesses.

...ok I'll concede on lulu I completely forgot she has a dress made of belts

>so lonely god help me
according to jrpgs you're supposed to kill god

Nice damage control.

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learn what that term means

>you jelly?

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>complex=more shit

those are all shit. the west is incapable of making good games.

>quoting capeshit characters written by soigoys
reevaluate your life

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They hated OP because he told the truth

if they aren't pandering to otaku who are they pandering to? gotta pander to someone.

Imagine being the miserable excuse of a human being who feels the need to take the mantle of WRPG-Kun.

Ah, Jesse Cox. Whatever happened to him

>action taken to limit the damaging effects of an accident or error
Sounds right to me, fag.

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KYS me faggot

Which ones have fun gameplay though?

i dont care about that part i just want pussy

>pledging loyalty to a genre
>pledging loyalty to a piece of plastic
You're all children

Both are cringe and for losers :/

EA has already put the deathmark on Bioware.

step one
>rushed to finish a game because the others have been profitable

step two
>rush out new game with half of the work to prove it is a dead concept

step three
>have devs make a game to jump on current fad. even if that fad is dead or the fanbase is locked in to other games
repeat step three until consumer good will is gone.

step four
>have the shadow of development studio pump out small shitty licensed/mobile games. riding the nostalgia of the studio name

step five
>shuts down the studio. the name of the Studio is repurposed for a new part of the publisher's platform

>phyloshopical
Yeah, I wonder why you prefer consuming braindead media

>bait
>damaging effects

Probably Underrail (though the difficulty isn't for everyone), ToME, and the Grimrocks.

Are there any jrpgs with actually fun gameplay? Please name five at least.

are you retarded? that's even worse than a basic yes/no option because you're railroaded into saying yes unless you grind your stats.
while we're at it, here's how i know you haven't played p5: it has stat checks that entire social links are gated behind.

JRPGs are all the same gameplay-wise, play one and you played them all. The only way to fix JRPGs is to go back to turn based combat

Grandia II
SMT IV:A
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Megaman battle network V
Final fantasy X

All of those are pretty fuckin common. CDPR actually wouldn't count, you can't kill random npcs and there is barely any mechanics besides fighting.

"Do you know why the number two hundred is so vitally descriptive to both you and me? It's your weight and my I.Q. " -Lex Luthor

Do you live under a rock buddy

Dialogue in Persona 5 was even worse than Fallout 4 in terms of no choices mattering at all. Why is it ok when Japan does it?

>All of those are pretty fuckin common.
They aren't, zoomer.

For me fun gameplay has to allow for a bit more than fighting and your random detatched from the rest of the mechanics mini-game.

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Nice nitpick without context retard

> random encounters
> playable

yikes and cringe

>combat doesn't count
Then go play Phoenix Wright or something

there is no context that makes that not shit

So you're basically criticizing wprgs despite not having actually played any recent ones?

>stop making jrpgs waifushit
I just fixed JRPGs lads.

I actually enjoyed Underrail a lot because it isn't trying to be DnD and allows actual strategy while rewarding exploration.

it is called putting down the game and going and doing something else.

To be fair persona isn't known for using dialogue and characters interactions the same way that fallout was.

Damn. bioware will never make a game as decent as origins again. I bought Inquisition on sale for a fraction of the price, but it's so tiresome to play, even if I ignore the sjw shit and just play the gameplay with the only decent straight male romance option, the combat is just not fun, the world is empty, there's barely at cities, barely any quests with interesting stories, it's all so tiresome.

Gameplay in a rpg needs to have variety. If you just give me another jap game that has something besides combat but abandons it completely then that doesn't count. No arpg will have better combat than the best of action games and not turn-based one will have better than the best strategy games. If I wanted to play a game for those aspects I'd just pick those.

>brothers/sisters
Couldn't it be just siblings?

Or just play non-japanese (synonim for better) game.

I'm actually in the middle of a Pathfinder playthrough, so no, nice try.
Besides, you have zero knowledge of the medium, like all the JRPG shitposter in this shithole, and to make things worse, your complaints are all related to things that are not related to roleplay mechanics eithers and are literally immersive the sim cancer that killed WRPG and birthed monstrosities like the TES series or absolute garbage like Obsidian's games.

Sorry, I'm agnostic, I don't give a shit.

TWEWY
KH2FM on Critical
SMTIVA
Radiant Historia
Bravely Default
In my opinion.

Star Ocean 2.. game play is great.
FFX does have a pretty indepth mini game that is useful late game, Bliztball.

>JRPG
You're a young man/woman (under 20) who hasn't found their place in the world and must fight SOME sort of villainy force with vague intentions (THE EVIL UNPRONOUNCABLE HAS ARRIVED) which once defeated leads you to... the end of the game.

>WRPG
Literal novellas about the fate of the world and the fragility of mankind's inner nature in an oppressive world that few understand.

>A tick for mindless grinding appears in my mind
>Just want to do repetitive tasks to turn the brain off and look at numbers going up
>Ok, a JRPG™ gotta be
>Look for JRPG's
>Trails in the sky is considered a good JRPG
>Download it
>Start "playing"
>The dialogue goes on and on and on
>Wtf when do i play
>There is little to 0 actual gameplay, enemies with 1 level more than you give shitloads of exp so you never need to actually play
>The most efficient strat is just to run past everything and level up in mandatory quests that last 5 seconds
>Sometimes they give you overleveled characters as if it wasn't easy enough

All in all it's a solid 7/10, good book, would reccomend.

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mario rpg's have some platformer elements, romancing saga and saga frontier 1 are basically wrpg's made by japs.

>people keep demanding KH2FM is great
i cant get past the dialog.
>the darkness...in the heart...a heart in darkness, hearts with darkness in them. Darkness imprisoning me, All that I see
Absolute heartless

>romancing saga and saga frontier 1 are basically wrpg's made by japs.
What in the fuck are you even talking about

I guess ToEE, BG, NWN, Wizardry and whatever else are all JRPGs now.

>teehee

The bullshit dialogue is what endears me to the series, honestly.

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they're non-linear, the combat system is wrpg-like, leveling up is freeform, optional party members, not a big focus on story, etc.

The trails series up till crossbell blows any western RPG out of the water in terms of world building. Cold steel is fucking garbage though I'll give you that

depends on how autistic you are with your grinding.

if you are full blown autism.
Disgaea is gonna be your go to for the grind.

if you just have tism fits here or there try out FFX. the grind for arena bosses/dark aeon is pretty intense.

SaGa games are their own thing.
The only JRPGs that might pique a WRPGfaggot interest are japanese CRPGs like Lunatic Dawn.

Based Metallica boomer

>the combat system is wrpg-like,
That is not how wrpgs play at all

Why are there almost no good recent RPGs then?

Heh

Etrian Odyssey
Not sure which one but it seems to be one of the 3ds games so 4, 5, or Nexus.

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>TWEWY
>KH2FM
>jrpgs

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Etrian Odyssey and that chart is wrong.

How are they not?

Name a WRPG that even comes close to Bloodborne.

Checkmate.

well first of all, they're not fucking rpgs

it is. turn-based instead of atb or action rpg system, abilities are positional, your dudes can either act or move around in their turn, debuffs and status effects actually do stuff, etc.

By that definition FFT is wrpg like, don't be a retard

Bloodborne is barely even an rpg. It's an action game with a customizable character.

Mediocre overrated shit? Dragon age cisquisition.

FFT is strategy.

How the fuck are they not JRPGs?

strategy JRPG

Persona isn't a game about making choices you dimwit. Its a game about dungeoncrawling and dating waifus. Its good for what it is.

one is a hack and slash the other is a beat em up
idk how you could confuse that for something like final fantasy, dq or anything they play nothing alike

You are very new to jrpgs arent you

>he thinks all JRPGs need to be turn-based to qualify as such
Ah, so you’re one of those retards.

>That is not how wrpgs play at all
How do "true" WRPGs play then, enlighten me.
>one is a hack and slash the other is a beat em up
That would mean that most WRPGs ever made aren't WRPGs.

they don't have any rpg elements though. I know tales of/star ocean etc are jrpgs

Nothing wrong with random encounters you just have ADD

Why did the mods delete a these about JRPGs just now?

>I know tales of/star ocean etc are jrpgs
Explain how. Please, I want to know your logic.

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because they have rpg elements. its not that hard

this is bait
why are you all responding to bait?

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>How do "true" WRPGs play then, enlighten me.
It sure as shit isn't saga frontier ridiculous skill combos and sparking mechanics

So do TWEWY and KH. Explain what makes Tales and Star Ocean any different.

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That's why WRPGs will never make it

oh, sorry I'm a retard. from what I remembered twewy only had those badges

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Western RPG's
>DA GAYS ARE OPPRESSED HERO, WON'T YOU SAVE THEM AFTER SCROLLING THROUGH 50,000 PAGES OF FUCKING NOTHING DRIBBLE GARBAGE DIALOGUE

Eastern RPG's
>Greek Tragedies of loss and the role of a hero that all men should strive to achieve

I hate Americans

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You also have Attack and Defense, HP, level grinding, equipment customization, etc...

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>old
>around for 8 years
Fucking zoomers. You know history started before 2000, right?

It's just for fun, you joyless prick. I bet you're one of those people who spams the ">japanese humor" webm.

Until the West can make a game that's even close to FF Tactics, Front Mission, or the Rance Series, I never want to see this fucking thread again

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JRPGS are great. You're just being shallow

What are some Japanese games with actual complex interactions and dialog choices? Something along Baldurs Gate or Knight of the old republic for example.

>complex interactions and dialog choices
That is not what JRPGs are good for now go back to playing wrpgs.

Both of those games are fucking shit though

Do you want me to recommend you a shit game?

Look I play video games for fun can you all leave me alone so I can actually enjoy myself

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Come on there must be some JRPG with actual dialogue choices

JRPGs in general do not do speech or stat checks outside of maybe persona with social link stats.

Yeah but it doesn't have to be stat checked. Gothic 1 and 2 had great dialogue without any stat checks

There are many, but not the nonsense of the average WRPG.

EO5

Ok then please name some I really want to play a Japanese game with dialogue choices. I'm sick of playing a generic MC and hope that good duologue changes that

I don't understand what you want?

Most of the dialogue choices in any WRPG barely affect anything and is done more as a buffer

Japanese games aren't like that, They create a narrative for which all gameplay choice means something to the end game and what story lines progress

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>Has Japan made anything that rivals Gothic 2: NotR?
a game that is amazing in the first half and shits itself in the second? Many are like that, for example Xenogears.

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Devil Survivor 2

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You should learn japanese and play Japanese CRPGs then, Lunatic Dawn games are the closest to what you want but they're JP only, even the console entries.
Older KOEI games like Uncharted Waters or Zill O'll are another examples, but the dialogue choices there aren't made to be variate in terms of RP but rather to redirect you to certain worldbuilding choices, Zill O'll in particular might be what you want though since it's built vaguely similarly to ToEE in the sense that you choose a background for your character which fundamentally changes the premise of the game, more than ToEE though (and more than 99% of WRPG either, it's actually really good at that) and lead to different playthroughs with focus on choice and consequence which makes each playthrough potentially very different, especially since you end up potentially killing a lot of people, directly or not.
Growlanser games have more standard WRPG dialogue choices in the sense that you have 4 or 5 different dialogue choices everytime and 4 of those are just four different ways of saying yes, GIV does have a rather interesting alignment system though and quite a few player input related to those dialogue choices.
Some SMT might also scratch that itch but it's honestly very bland, standard alignment check choices, some like it, I personally don't, but I don't like dialogue systems either in most cases so there's that.
Some SaGa games might be relevant to your interests too but I honestly think only SaGa 2 DS matters in that sense and your dialogue "choices" as interesting as they are in design, are done indirectly through character building, and don't amount to much other than light RP, SaGa games are more about practical choices than dialogue so despite being excellent RPGs they're not what you're looking for.
Gunparade March is another game for you where you have loads of dialogue choices with actual effect on how the game turns out but again, it's JP only.

>Lunatic Dawn games are the closest to what you want but they're JP only, even the console entries.
Passage of the Book has a TL patch on the steam forums claiming 99% completeness, what about that?

>Passage of the Book has a TL patch on the steam forums claiming 99% completeness
Really?
Good for you, Passage of the Book is kind of a classic in the series and considered one of the highest points, pretty good game for its time although I'm not really a fan of the combat system in that game and progression can get pretty confusing since the game doesn't hold your hand at all.
Try it out and see if it clicks with you, mind you that it's a pretty old game by now and LD games had kind of a train simulator interface like a lot of old, as in actually old, windows RPGs.

>no choices mattering at all
>each line gives you a set amount of points towards confidant level which in turn effects combat
>if you don't make the right dialogue choices your characters will have missing abilities/skills
based retard

>playing RPGs

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*sniffs*

speech skill check in fallout isnt about intelligence it's about tone and assertion. if you fail the check it's just the main character stammering.

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*fixes*

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Inazuma Eleven

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based

The penultimate redpill right here

Lmao fucking based

> tfw gamer who thinks wrpgs contain philosophical texts
Can't wait for my favourite YouTube skeptic to drop their next video!

>a game the better part of a decade old from a previous console generation is representative of games coming out in the last couple years
Ok boomer, i guess PS1 games were also new shit when the fucking PS3 was already out cause they weren't more than 8 years old.